Police muscle in on funeral cortege

[Drum]

In light of the unavailability of patrol cars to attend the "Pokeno bad driver" incident, this is even more surprising (nz herald).........

When Les ("Jack") Jackson rode his motorbike behind the hearse carrying his son's body, he was not expecting to be pulled over by the police.

But the grieving father and his family were left distressed after Henderson police tried to stop him for not wearing a motorcycle helmet in the funeral cortege.

Mr Jackson, a member of the Akarana Riders Club, says he rode his Harley-Davidson without a helmet as a mark of respect to his only child, Dean, a blind man who died of an epileptic seizure at 26.

Three police cars tried to stop him in the short distance between the funeral at the Lincoln Rd Bible Chapel and the burial at the Waikumete Cemetery, pushing in behind Mr Jackson and in front of his wife, Kerry, who was being driven behind him.

The funeral director, who declined to be named, complained to the police.

"The mother was extremely upset that they cut in between her and the hearse, and so were a number of other people," he said.

Dean Jackson was active in his church and a regular guest on the Radio Live show Dawn Patrol with Des and Les, where he sang songs on air.

Co-host Bruce Hopkins (aka "Les"), one of 400 people at the funeral, said: "I came out on to Lincoln Rd and there were about 12 or 15 big motorbikes, Harleys and all sorts, which held up the traffic until they could all get in a line and travel along Lincoln Rd. I had tears in my eyes because it was such a powerful image."

But another mourner, who was listening to the police radio in his car, said he heard a an officer describe the procession as "a gang funeral".

Mr Jackson, a truck driver, refused to stop when the police cars pushed in. "There was no way I was pulling over. That would have held everyone up."

When the cortege stopped at a roundabout, an officer shouted to Mr Jackson asking him again to pull over.

"I pointed to the hearse and said, 'That's my son in there'," Mr Jackson said. "He said, 'I don't care'. That's when I gave him the one-finger salute, which evidently he got upset about."

The three police cars in the cortege were joined by two more at the cemetery, but the officers allowed the burial to go ahead. When the mourners left, the police had gone. No charge was laid against Mr Jackson.

Waitakere area police commander Inspector Mark O'Connor said in a statement yesterday that the law did not allow an exemption from wearing a helmet in a funeral cortege.

"Police are sensitive to the needs of families in these circumstances."

[Quasievil]

Makes the police look like a pack of fucken nazi's as far as Im concerned, whats with cops, once they had a good image and got respect from probably 90% of the public.now they are depsised by 90% of the public.......why acts like that and over the top traffic enforcement make them appear to be heartless and money grabbing pricks, wheres the discretion ? :angry:

[T.I.E]

shame the policeman couldn't use some discretion.
"i am god " attitude again.
i guess they were lucky alot of upset people in that situation could have turned ugly for the police.

[Timber020]

Its a funeral, it doesnt make it alright to smoke P, do 200kmph, take virgins as a sacrifice, shoot ak47's in the air or not wear a helmet on a public road.

The police did a simular thing at a gang funeral in a few years back when they did not allow members to ride without helmets. According to the gang "in protest at the end they rode home at high speed." Incidently they were on harleys so they were probably beaten home by the hearse:nya:

I cant see how a helmet interfers with the grief process, the guy has lost a son and is in alot of pain, but not wearing the helmet wasnt about the funeral, it was just an excuse to get away with not wearing one.

I dont know how the cops could have handled this one, if they let it go its shows them willingly turning a blind eye to a very obvious breaking of the law which could lead to a dangerous precedent, yet the papers jump on them for doing what we expect them to, upholding the law for everyone.

They were damned if they do, and theyre damned if they dont

[Quasievil]

They were damned if they do, and theyre damned if they dont

Negative, they were Damned cause they did, and no one would have given a toss if they didnt

[scumdog]

Hmm, they don't get pulled over for that down here...

Just another thing to add to the list of "Why I don't Live in Auckland or any other Large Metropolitan Area"

[Indoo]

Negative, they were Damned cause they did, and no one would have given a toss if they didnt

Funny that cos i distinctly remember not too long ago the Police being criticised for allowing the funeral procession of that head hunters idiot to ride down the motorway without helmets.

[Bonez]

Incidently they were on harleys (p/t)Apperently that's ment to put riders above the law(p/t).

[Toast]

Quasi summed up the issue here in one word: discretion.

Another example of the police stringently enforcing the laws with tunnel vision and not looking at the bigger picture. Smoking P while riding or doing 200kmph would have likely endangered the public, and the rider himself. Riding with no helmet is stupid, but really, they could've just given him a ticket a month later when he was able to take it.

[Quasievil]

Funny that cos i distinctly remember not too long ago the Police being criticised for allowing the funeral procession of that head hunters idiot to ride down the motorway without helmets.

Well gangs need to be smacked hard at every opportunity, and once smacked smack em again and again for anything possible. Its called policing, bothering a small family procession is harrasment, bringing three or more cars into a smaller family procession highlights that cops dont know how to police, dont know how to use discretion, and have no ability to think anymore you know using their brains!

If gangs are involved bring out the guns for littering.......literally

[scumdog]

Be a boring old site if the Police did everything right for everybody all the time..

I wonder what 'they' would pick on instead??:wait:

[Indoo]

....If gangs are involved bring out the guns for littering.......literally

"But another mourner, who was listening to the police radio in his car, said he heard a an officer describe the procession as "a gang funeral"."

I think its just another case of Herald journalism, the Police are the target atm so what story they can twist around, they will take.

[Smokin]

Quasi summed up the issue here in one word: discretion.

Another example of the police stringently enforcing the laws with tunnel vision and not looking at the bigger picture. Smoking P while riding or doing 200kmph would have likely endangered the public, and the rider himself. Riding with no helmet is stupid, but really, they could've just given him a ticket a month later when he was able to take it.


Im with you on this one Toast, Not the best way to go about it but ya can't let them away with it either. Not wearing a helmet out of respect? Bollocks, he wanted to look like a tough guy.

[Timber020]

There were up to 15 bikes at the funeral, 400 people attended. The law applies to this guy, he gave the cops the finger when asked to pull over. As mentioned before when the cops dont do anything about these sort of situations they get raked over the coals about it

Now if I refused to pull over, gave the cop the finger I wouldnt be expecting a "go ahead sir, have a nice day".

The cops didnt stop him from attending the funeral, they just did what they could to stop him breaking the law, which he was doing on purpose and extremely publicly.

[slimjim]

Its a funeral, it doesnt make it alright to smoke P, do 200kmph, take virgins as a sacrifice, shoot ak47's in the air or not wear a helmet on a public road.

The police did a simular thing at a gang funeral in a few years back when they did not allow members to ride without helmets. According to the gang "in protest at the end they rode home at high speed." Incidently they were on harleys so they were probably beaten home by the hearse:nya:

I cant see how a helmet interfers with the grief process, the guy has lost a son and is in alot of pain, but not wearing the helmet wasnt about the funeral, it was just an excuse to get away with not wearing one.

I dont know how the cops could have handled this one, if they let it go its shows them willingly turning a blind eye to a very obvious breaking of the law which could lead to a dangerous precedent, yet the papers jump on them for doing what we expect them to, upholding the law for everyone.

They were damned if they do, and theyre damned if they dont no wrong here mate,, its about been and given the respect to or of someone, i too have ridden without my hat on funeral rides of a fallen mate,, police have asked of us ,only to wear our hats afterwards when leaving the grave site and not all were gang related !

[Highlander]

What about all the push bikes being ridden without helmets? Does the law not require a halmet to be worn when riding on a Bicycle? Where is the enforcement for that?

The law is the law. Yes discretion could have been used by the Policeman (policeperson?) involved, but equally the guy knew the law when he chose not to follow it, exactly the same as if he had decided to ride at 60 in a 50 zone or 150 in a 100 zone.

[crashe]

Funny that cos i distinctly remember not too long ago the Police being criticised for allowing the funeral procession of that head hunters idiot to ride down the motorway without helmets.


Yep that was the gang member who was the head honcho of that gang that was murdered. They all rode up the southern motorway from south Auckland down the nor-western motorway over to Waikamete cementary where he is buried. There was tv coverage of that procession.
Most of them did NOT wear helmets to that funeral.


Whether they wore them on the way home I don't know as there was no mention of that.

So if they do it for one, then they do it for all.
This was one man, not wearing a helmet riding at slow speed behind a hearse... compared to fast speed on the motorway.

Sorry but the Henderson cops should have let him go or at least spoke to him afterwards.

Oh and 15 - 20 bikes that constitutes a GANG.
Shite then the Ronnie House fundraiser run tomorrow and all other fundraiser runs ....we are all in a GANG.... wow..

[denill]

Hmm, they don't get pulled over for that down here...

Just another thing to add to the list of "Why I don't Live in Auckland or any other Large Metropolitan Area"
Yeah, cops fall into the same category as lawyers. 99% give the rest a bad name............

[Scouse]

"But another mourner, who was listening to the police radio in his car, said he heard a an officer describe the procession as "a gang funeral"."

I think its just another case of Herald journalism, the Police are the target atm so what story they can twist around, they will take.Same way the police twist things you say when they use it as evidence Indoo or do you think that its ok for the Police to twist things to suit their ends but its only wrong when Journalist do it

[Bonez]

Hmm, they don't get pulled over for that down here...

Just another thing to add to the list of "Why I don't Live in Auckland or any other Large Metropolitan Area"They seem cool with it up our way too SD. I'm guessing the coppers further up north where just having a bad hair day. I'm sure if they where informed it was going to happen, generally the norm here in Palmy anyway, things would be different.

[denill]

Yep that was the gang member who was the head honcho of that gang that was murdered. They all rode up the southern motorway from south Auckland down the nor-western motorway over to Waikamete cementary where he is buried. There was tv coverage of that procession.
Most of them did NOT wear helmets to that funeral.
Whether they wore them on the way home I don't know as there was no mention of that.

Don't understand cop logic. It would be a service to society if they allowed them to ride helmetless ALL the time.
Same as how they rush to defuse gang warfare. Why don't they leave it for a week or two?? Pretend it is a burglary.

[Indoo]

Same way the police twist thing you say when they use it as evidence Indoo or do you think that its ok for the Police to twist things to suit their ends but its only wrong when Journalist do it

Hardly,but even then the defence twists things in the opposite direction. So you do actually have a relatively balanced medium.

The Herald isn't even remotely balanced anymore, but people believe what they read in it to be the truth and form opinions on things based around that.
Thats pretty much evidenced just in this thread.

The Herald's current beat up is the cops, hell they are even appealing for people to send in bad stories about the Police. Take it with a grain of salt, a big one.

[WINJA]

Hmm, they don't get pulled over for that down here...

Just another thing to add to the list of "Why I don't Live in Auckland or any other Large Metropolitan Area"
YOU GUYS DONT HAVE NOD MAN

[krash69]

wear no helemt too if it was one of my kids or a fallen mate.....

now this thing of a group of bikes wil all ways have the stigma of bean bikies or a gang.....surely the cops must be able to tell he difference by now....:wait:

[inlinefour]

How can that respect someone? Actually being there is the respect thing...

Yea the Police handled the whole thing badly, especially if they have let gangs do it in the past. One rule for some and another rule for the rest. Thats what makes the Police arses in this instance.

As for riding without safety gear, IMO thats just stoopid...:whocares:

[WINJA]

How can that respect someone? Actually being there is the respect thing...

Yea the Police handled the whole thing badly, especially if they have let gangs do it in the past. One rule for some and another rule for the rest. Thats what makes the Police arses in this instance.

As for riding without safety gear, IMO thats just stoopid...:whocares:
THE PIGS HAVE ALWAYS HAD A DOUBLE STANDARD ,THE FARMERS RIDE AROUND HERE AT SPEED ON UNREGISTERED BIKES WEARING NO HELMET AND THE COPS JUST DRIVE ON BY , A FUNERAL IS ONE THING BUT A COCKY DOING IT 300 DAYS OF A YEAR IS FUCKEN 300 TIMES MORE DANGEROUS YET THE PIGS DO NOTHING ,SAME WITH ALL THE COCKYS WITH THEIR EXTRA WHEELS ON THE TRACTORS AT THE MOMENT THE TRACTORS ARE FAR TO WIDE TO LEGALLY BE ON THE ROAD THE PIGS DO NOTHING , I SEE SOME CRAZY SHIT ON MY TRAVELS AND THE PIGS LOOK THE OTHER WAY , IF A PIG DONT HAVE ENOUGH SENSE TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY AT A FUNERAL HES GOT PISS POOR JUDGEMENT AND SHOULD BE FIRED

[SwanTiger]

As previously mentioned, anything written in the NZ Herald is not worth taking as factual representation of the event.

The conensus on this thread is that the Police made a failure in judgement and I agree with that.

I can highlight that by an incident I witnessed while in the Car. I was heading north along State Highway in the car and there was a large build up of traffic. A Police Highway Patrol was parked with his warning board up reading that a Hazard was ahead.

After waiting in Traffic from Hatfields Beach until the bottom of the Waiwera Hills as you come over the small bridge I finally got to see what the hazard was. A broken down campervan on the bridge with a Police officer at its Window writing out a ticket for the driver.

Instead of rolling the camper back down to the edge of the road, which was easily possible, the cop obviously decided writing a ticket was more important than the flow of traffic.

Goes to show, lack of brains.

[kro]

He road without a helmet as a mark of respect?, How on God's green earth does that show a mark of respect?. It shows a marked decrease in common sense, and points towards a good escuse to go for a ride with no lid. Maybe he should have got whacked out on P, got drunk, and dragged a live dog behind the bike as a mark of respect too. Idiotic.

[Pixie]

This brings to mind a comment to Holmes by Gareth Morgan on the Silk Riders trip:
"the people in all the countries we passed through were great,interested in what we were doing,where we were from.The only ones that gave us trouble were the goons.The ones in uniform"

[babyB]

either way what is done is done
condolences fellow biker

[Motu]

I'm very suprised that the Safety Nazi's on this site aren't right behind the Cops on this one,it was also probably a black open face as well,the guy might of been wearing jeans too.Double standards - they are oh so easy to apply....

[SPman]

He road without a helmet as a mark of respect?, How on God's green earth does that show a mark of respect?. It shows a marked decrease in common sense, and points towards a good escuse to go for a ride with no lid. Maybe he should have got whacked out on P, got drunk, and dragged a live dog behind the bike as a mark of respect too. Idiotic.
There are many ways of showing respect. - not wearing a hat is one of them.
Whats with the safety nazi kick again. its not as though he was hairing off through the countryside or riding around town as a normal matter of course - he was in a funeral cortege for gods sake!
Once again its a lack of common sense or discretion on the part of a public official, who lets zealotry for the letter of the law or regulation take precedence over a real life situation where a little common sense would have avoided the whole shemozzle. - and it doesnt just apply just to the police - every public regulatory body has people in them who are guilty of the same lack of judgement.
Another case of zealous attempted application of the letter of the law, not the spirit of the law!

[kro]

Sorry dude, that doesn't answer the question of how respect was paid by wearing no lid. I don't give a shit what the police did, nor am I taking a pro, or con police action stance, I am asking how a lidless rider is showing respect to the the dead, when he is showing no respect for the law while doing it.

I just get sick of whingers who think there are ways and means of flouting the law, and justifying it with their own little brand of home grown politics. What is so hard to understand?, the law says wear a lid, if you don't like it, ride a trike, or get a convertible MX5, dont continue riding a bike, and crying everytime the man doing his job tickets you for it.

The law and the police are two different topics, one is the word of the law, the other is the enforcing body of it. I am talking about the law, the same law that states its not ok for some fuckhead to come along, and wheel your r1 away, and call it his, the same law that says you don't beat your wife, because you think she is a stupid cow, the same that that................. ffs if you don't like the law, stop freaking whinging about it, and lobby the law makers, and get the law changed.
SPMan, this isnt directed at you, I'm not saying you personally are whinging or anything, I'm just extending my point :)

[Jantar]

Its traditional in european (and american) society that at funerals men remove their hats, while ladies wear them.

[Motu]

Whats with the safety nazi kick again. !

Respect....for the living or the dead,respect their choices in life....

[oldrider]

We saw off our best friend late last year, over 100 bikes I was told, we all wore our lids in the procession and I am sure as hell he didn't get any disrespect from us.
I feel him with me on most of my rides and almost hear him chuckle when I fuck up.
I think the lid thing and respect is just BS. But your choice!
The loss of Freedom to choose is not BS though why do we need a law for that! John.

[Highlander]

Hats off at the grave side and in the chappel and when praying, to me show respect.

As far as on or off in the funeral proession to me is personal choice but be aware that the Law says on. It is a personal safety thing for each to decide to flaunt the law or not in this case. Law enforcement aguments can be made either way but at the end of the day the law clearly says thou shalt wear thy helmet.

To put a slightly different spin on this (having not bothered to read the Herald blurb), what reaction would you expect for ticketing the non wearing of seatbelts for those in cars in the procession?

[Drum]

Theres been several references to a bad judgement call by the Police here, but I would say that the officer who made the original contact made a bad call. Obviously one of the two extra cars that turned up at the funeral contained someone who made a better call, and they left before the end of the funeral and no charges were laid.

This is actually a good example of the Police exercising discretion.

Strange how it still gets reported negatively.

[Squeak the Rat]

To put a slightly different spin on this (having not bothered to read the Herald blurb), what reaction would you expect for ticketing the non wearing of seatbelts for those in cars in the procession?
More explicitly, stopping the funeral procession to issue tickets to the car occupants.

Some laws are there to protect others, eg: no stealing because that directly affects another human being. Others are there to protect us from ourselves, like helmets (or to save ACC money depending what you believe). The dude was riding slow, if the cop really had to book him he should have waited till afterwards, send him a ticket in the mail or something.

But the way I look at it, if I'm grieving and not potentially hurting some one else with my actions then let me do what the hell I want. If you don't agree with the way I'm grieving or showing respect, that's fine. If I've broken some pissant law that won't hurt you or any one else in the process then who cares. A little compassion is ok, honestly.

[Highlander]

Squeak, granted the issue here appears two fold, one is should he have been booked at all. The other is that the Police Officer is reported to have done it in a manner likely not to improve the public perception of Police.

[inlinefour]

Respect....for the living or the dead,respect their choices in life....

Amen to that.:rockon: Good to hear it ended for the best too :)

[Sniper]

The guy did wrong, he broke a law becuase he thought it was the right time to do it. The cops did the right thing, and now the guy is bitching cause he got off a ticket and charges? I would still be upset for the actions they took, but he was still not above the law and shouldn't cry about what happened.

[Sniper]

Another point, what happened if the guy came out and spilt his brains on the road. Bet there would be an uproar about him not wearing a helmet and then more funeral processions would be stopped for non helmet wearing twits.

[kro]

Precisely Sniper.

If we are to let people make their own calls on whether they obey the law, then, let them police themselves, and not come crying to the real police if a drunken cager ploughs into the lead bike on a lidless funeral motorcade. If they can write their own law, they can live by it too, you can't have it both ways.

[kro]

and to be honest it was at low speed and there were heaps of other bikes around.

Not singling you out Dyna, just using this statement to further illustrate my point. As is seen on the bike racing, at the start, when a shitload of bikes are clustered togther, this is when you get your big crashes, and its never just one bike, its multiple.
The bike crash that happened just recently in Napier?, when the 4WD hit the lead biker in that group, again, multiple bikers down.
Here in Nelson last year, multiple bikers down on a black ice bridge, one killed, 3 seriously fucked up, others beat up bad.

If you shit-canned helmet laws, the "Biker down" threads in KB, would contribute to 60% of all posts. There are enough of the bloody things already. Dont have a respect for the dead, by creating more of them.

[Squeak the Rat]

Not singling you out Dyna, just using this statement to further illustrate my point. As is seen on the bike racing, at the start, when a shitload of bikes are clustered togther, this is when you get your big crashes, and its never just one bike, its multiple.
The bike crash that happened just recently in Napier?, when the 4WD hit the lead biker in that group, again, multiple bikers down.
Here in Nelson last year, multiple bikers down on a black ice bridge, one killed, 3 seriously fucked up, others beat up bad.

If you shit-canned helmet laws, the "Biker down" threads in KB, would contribute to 60% of all posts. There are enough of the bloody things already. Dont have a respect for the dead, by creating more of them.

I don't think this thread is about whether helmets should be legal, a good, bad or indifferent idead, or whether they are effective. Yes you are right, they do save lives - I think the majority of people would agree, and there are plenty of threads in KB about this.

The point of this thread was the police actions in enforcing the law on a greiving father who was riding solo behind his sons hearse. Should he have been wearing a helmet? Yep, it's the law. Should he have been stopped? In my opinion no.

Police use their discretion every day deciding to enforce certain laws to the letter. I think this was the gist of DM50's post - that it needs to be in context and there will always be zealouts who use the "it's illegal and there for you should be fined/ticketed/arrested" argument. I personally think that DM showed good judgement - if something happened then he would have got roasted, but his actions make people such as myself a little more respectful of the police. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I'm half asleep so hope this makes sense, but to conclude I ask: would you be grateful for a policeman waving at you to slow down or giving you a warning instead of ticketing you? Or should police ticket every motorist exceeding the speed limit that they encounter regardless of the situation?

[Ironman]

Ignoring the legal aspects of the Helmet law, even ignore the stupid factor required to ride without a helmet. Ignoring the guys personal reasons to rides sans helemet as a mark of respect, sic...........

Think about the fact that as Motorcyclists we pay the highest ACC levies of all road users and for that reason alone I believe helmets should be compulsory IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES, even on farms, I'm sick of paying for idiots getting head injuries!

[number33]

The greenhorn cop was wrong for not pulling his head in and letting it go. The boofhead biker was wrong for shit-stirring at a funeral. ( 'Respecting the deceased by being helmetless' is such a crock of fucken shit) The squealing git who rang the newspaper is a fuckwit, and the weasel reporter is a fuckwit for turning the whole stupid fucken incident into a public drama. This country is starting to breed queer cunts at an alarming rate.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Its a funeral, it doesnt make it alright to smoke P, do 200kmph, take virgins as a sacrifice, shoot ak47's in the air or not wear a helmet on a public road.




Werent they in West Auckland?

might have been a bit hard to find a virgin to sacrifice even if they'd been inclined to........

[popelli]

Not singling you out Dyna, just using this statement to further illustrate my point. As is seen on the bike racing, at the start, when a shitload of bikes are clustered togther, this is when you get your big crashes, and its never just one bike, its multiple.
The bike crash that happened just recently in Napier?, when the 4WD hit the lead biker in that group, again, multiple bikers down.
Here in Nelson last year, multiple bikers down on a black ice bridge, one killed, 3 seriously fucked up, others beat up bad.



a safety nazi attitude

police were out of order on this one and made the wrong call, completely insensitive to the proceedings at hand and if this is the only crime they could find in west auckland then its time we had a more astute police force

[Ixion]

It is traditionally good form, and a mark of respect , for gentlemen to oncover their heads when in a cortege (whether vehicular, or on foot). Certainly, I think full face helmets would be inappropriate.

However, having said that, it was also traditional that a cortege proeeded VERY slowly, no more than 10mph. Originally, slow enough that mourners on foot could keep up. A high speed procession down the motorway is perhaps another matter.

[sunhuntin]

if the need called i wouldnt hesitate to ride lidless for a funeral....i also ride pegs down for funerals and on the anniversary of a death.

in this situation....i feel the cop was wrong for doing that at the time....a ticket or letter at a later date would have been more appropriate. i also think the father was wrong for flipping the bird. that woulda made him worse in the eyes of the cop and made his troubles worse. if it was slow speed, then i dont really see the problem [though harley at slow speed is slow to hold upright]

though i cant explain why i see it as a mark of respect, i do.

[Xman]

Cannot see how not wearing a helmet is somehow more respectful than wearing one. It is not like he was going to have to wear it at the service.
Fact is this- If someone blatently ignores or abuses a law in a very public way, putting himself or someone else at risk, then they get what they get when police enforce the law. You can't bleat about the sensitivity or lack thereof hwne the grieving father then gives the fingers to the police officer.. Thats hardly respectful behaviour in a funeral procession it it?

We all have to pay the medical bills of people that have head injuries. I would be distinctly unhappy to be paying for one where the injured party decided it was "make up your own laws day".

Could more discretion have been used by the police? Sure. Is that the main point here? I don't personally think so. The riders arrogant attitude towards the police is what caused the problems for him.

If you choose to break the law..that is your choice.. Just about everybody will at some point. Just don't go bleating about it when you get pulled up on it. This is not the same as someone being pulled over for 4km over the limit or something. This is blatantly and publicly CHOOSING to ignore the law.

[roogazza]

Firstly: I don't listen to the media, be it TV, radio or papers. They fuck up far too often !
Secondly: If it is true ? A Policeman has made a mistake and probably has a red face over it , (I mean a Funeral !!! Then get the finger and back down).
Doesn't sound like an experienced cop to me. G.

[froggyfrenchman]

I cant see how a helmet interfers with the grief process, the guy has lost a son and is in alot of pain, but not wearing the helmet wasnt about the funeral, it was just an excuse to get away with not wearing one.



To me it comes down to... its a funeral. Take your hat off.

I am going to a funeral on monday for a guy that died on his bike last weekend. There will be alot of bikes there and im sure most of us will ride without a hat.

[Skyryder]

Been intrigued by the various comments of riding with or without helmet at funerals. To be sure just uncertain how I would ride, with or without. So I'll try and work this one through.

First of all the hat thing is a mark of respect. No problem with that. But is a helmet a hat? On this score I'm not too sure. To me a hat serves two functions. Historicly it denotes your place in society and as such serves as a fashion statment of your place in it. The working class had the cloth cap, middle managment homberg and the rest bowlers. Like I said historicly. Secondly the hat serves as a protector from the elements. Protector now that's the key word. And a hat is placed on the head and so is a helmet, so in my view the helmet 'is' a hat that protects and is also a fashion statement. so to answer my question I would ride to a funeral 'hatliss' but only in cortege.

There is no excuse for riding without one after the funeral service. So unless You can carry your helmet with you...........................?????


Skyryder

[froggyfrenchman]

Yeah, lets make this clear... You wear your lid to the funeral. Take it off when you are following the herse. Then put it back on when leaving the cemetry

Its not an excuse to ride without any lid all day

[GSX-RJIM]

man if I was the cop and had to do something about it I would have gone aroud to his home later on, there are ways of dealing with stuff like that- it was a very short distance.

[GSX-RJIM]

you don't have to wear helmits to my funeral but you must be wearing undies

[Skyryder]

man if I was the cop and had to do something about it I would have gone aroud to his home later on, there are ways of dealing with stuff like that- it was a very short distance.

I think in law you would have a very good case to get off. Traditions and the values that they imply, and represent, can be used as evidence.

Any case law on this??

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

you don't have to wear helmits to my funeral but you must be wearing undies

Do knickers count??:rofl: :rofl:

Skyryder

[GSX-RJIM]

:yawn: :yes:
Do knickers count??:rofl: :rofl:

Skyryder

no knickers and no helmits sounds good to me

[froggyfrenchman]

I think in law you would have a very good case to get off. Traditions and the values that they imply, and represent, can be used as evidence.

Any case law on this??

Skyryder

Nota case, but all hell broke loose in Hastings a few years back when a very well known biker died. There were about 200 of us with no lids.

The papers didnt leave it alone for weeks. There were news cameras there, the cops could have gotten most of our plates. I never got a letter or phone call, neither did any of the other guys i knew there

[Patrick]

What if he crashed and spilled his brains? Cop has to pick those bits up with rubber gloves...and explain to the following procession that he just joined his son...

Ignore him and he spills his brains? Media headline "Police seen doing nothing about helmetless rider who crashed and died from his head injuries..."

Or, stop and ticket...hmmm... ?

See him afterward? Maybe... bike not in his name? Rider not the owner? The paperwork generated finding out who he is, now that is time well spent... NOT. Or stopping and finding out there and then?

Cop knew he was part of the procession? How? I've been in processions in Auckland and you can't tell who belongs and who doesn't...everyone just pushes their way in anyhow...

Sure, he was told, and pointed in the right direction apparently... followed to the graveyard where discretion then kicked in and not one charge was laid. Good call...

And this made the news? :nya: Shite media...:zzzz:

but... what if he did stack off? Guess who gets to pick up the pieces...the cop who wanted to stop him in the first place? Damned if you do... damned if you don't...

[Slides]

The greenhorn cop was wrong for not pulling his head in and letting it go. The boofhead biker was wrong for shit-stirring at a funeral. ( 'Respecting the deceased by being helmetless' is such a crock of fucken shit) The squealing git who rang the newspaper is a fuckwit, and the weasel reporter is a fuckwit for turning the whole stupid fucken incident into a public drama. This country is starting to breed queer cunts at an alarming rate.

Amen brother.

I agree that in this case the cops seem to have acted badly, but I would like to make one point regarding whether or the not the police can pick and choose when to enforce the law.
I used to work 'in and around' the justice system (i.e. with lawyers) and the judges and lawyers were always saying that it is NOT up to the cops to decide if a law has actually being broken, that is actually a job for the courts.

So sometimes the cops are caught between looking like a pratt to the public, or being kicked in the arse by the boss..... and them there is that 0.1% who are actually arseholes...

[GSX-RJIM]

What if he crashed and spilled his brains? Cop has to pick those bits up with rubber gloves...and explain to the following procession that he just joined his son...

Ignore him and he spills his brains? Media headline "Police seen doing nothing about helmetless rider who crashed and died from his head injuries..."

Or, stop and ticket...hmmm... ?

See him afterward? Maybe... bike not in his name? Rider not the owner? The paperwork generated finding out who he is, now that is time well spent... NOT. Or stopping and finding out there and then?

Cop knew he was part of the procession? How? I've been in processions in Auckland and you can't tell who belongs and who doesn't...everyone just pushes their way in anyhow...

Sure, he was told, and pointed in the right direction apparently... followed to the graveyard where discretion then kicked in and not one charge was laid. Good call...

And this made the news? :nya: Shite media...:zzzz:

but... what if he did stack off? Guess who gets to pick up the pieces...the cop who wanted to stop him in the first place? Damned if you do... damned if you don't...


Good point- sounds like do this for your job ie pick up spilled brains and wrie out tickets

[WINJA]

What if he crashed and spilled his brains? Cop has to pick those bits up with rubber gloves...and explain to the following procession that he just joined his son...

Ignore him and he spills his brains? Media headline "Police seen doing nothing about helmetless rider who crashed and died from his head injuries..."

Or, stop and ticket...hmmm... ?

See him afterward? Maybe... bike not in his name? Rider not the owner? The paperwork generated finding out who he is, now that is time well spent... NOT. Or stopping and finding out there and then?

Cop knew he was part of the procession? How? I've been in processions in Auckland and you can't tell who belongs and who doesn't...everyone just pushes their way in anyhow...

Sure, he was told, and pointed in the right direction apparently... followed to the graveyard where discretion then kicked in and not one charge was laid. Good call...

And this made the news? :nya: Shite media...:zzzz:

but... what if he did stack off? Guess who gets to pick up the pieces...the cop who wanted to stop him in the first place? Damned if you do... damned if you don't...
ALL THESE WHAT IFS , WELL WHAT IF THE PIGS ACTUALLY TOOK SMALL CRIMES LIKE MINOR THEFT AND BURGS SERIOUSLY SO THAT THE CRIMS DONT BECOME BIGGER CRIMS , WHAT IF THAT THEN.
IT WAS REALLY ABOUT THE COP MAKING A POINT AND SAYING THE LAWS THE LAW , WHAT A WANK DONT TRY TO DEFEND HIM CAUSE YOU JUST LOOK LIKE A WANKER YOURSELF.

[Cookie]

It's a bloody shocker to interupt someone's funeral for a minor thing like that but I am not going to judge every single cop in New Zealand for the actions in this case.

On the other hand, I hope those concerned get their backsides fried for a very long time for it. :yes:

Part of policing is maintaining order, and another part of it is about maintaining credibility in a world where a lot of different types of shit happens. This was of the minor variety and a "blind eye" would have been the best thing.

That's my 2 cents anyway.

[Patrick]

ALL THESE WHAT IFS , WELL WHAT IF THE PIGS ACTUALLY TOOK SMALL CRIMES LIKE MINOR THEFT AND BURGS SERIOUSLY SO THAT THE CRIMS DONT BECOME BIGGER CRIMS , WHAT IF THAT THEN.
IT WAS REALLY ABOUT THE COP MAKING A POINT AND SAYING THE LAWS THE LAW , WHAT A WANK DONT TRY TO DEFEND HIM CAUSE YOU JUST LOOK LIKE A WANKER YOURSELF.

What if we do... all theft and burgs, even go to letter box damage jobs even... But what if there aren't enough cops around to do all the thefts and burgs, Nah, that can't be so...

Was only pointing out the bigger picture thing, but that makes me a wanker...
But any excuse to have a crack at ALL cops ay.....

[WINJA]

What if we do... all theft and burgs, even go to letter box damage jobs even... But what if there aren't enough cops around to do all the thefts and burgs, Nah, that can't be so...

Was only pointing out the bigger picture thing, but that makes me a wanker...
But any excuse to have a crack at ALL cops ay.....
NOT REALLY , BUT YOU PRICKS DONT EVEN TURN UP TO MAJOR CRIME NOW LET ALONE MINOR CRIME , IF ITS TRAFFIC CRIME THEN YOU GUYS ARE ALL OVER IT CAUSE THE FORCE IS FULL OF PUSSY YES MEN AND WOMAN WHO LIKE THE EASY OPTIONS .
IF THAT WASNT A FUNERAL BUT A GANG OF ANGELS OR HEAD HUNTERS OUT THE BACK OF WEST AUCKLAND WEARING NO HELMETS THERE IS NO CHANCE THAT COP WOULD PULL THEM OVER , WHAT A FUCKEN FAG

[denill]

<a href=http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=28227>Poll: Should police turn a blind eye to NO helmets in a funeral cortege? </A>

[pritch]

On the understanding that what you read in the paper may, or may not, be an accurate account of what happened...

It may have been more appropriate to post a ticket in the mail?

[kro]

Man, I want to work where Winja works, no pressure, only even given enough work to exactly fill one day, and all the employees are happy, and no customer complaints ever.

[Sniper]

Im curious to know, if a stunter dies, is it OK to wheelie all the way to his funeral? Or is it ok to do a rolling burnout up the road behind the hearse? What happens if he requests it?

[WINJA]

Im curious to know, if a stunter dies, is it OK to wheelie all the way to his funeral? Or is it ok to do a rolling burnout up the road behind the hearse? What happens if he requests it?
SEEN IT ..........

[WINJA]

Man, I want to work where Winja works, no pressure, only even given enough work to exactly fill one day, and all the employees are happy, and no customer complaints ever.
ITS EASY MATE I JUST PRIORITIZE ILL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE .
MURDERS,KIDDY FIDDELERS,RAPES,ASSAULT,BURGS,TAGGING, DANGEROUS DRIVING,CARELESS DRIVING,NOT INDICATING ,SPEEDING .
NOTICE I PUT THINGS IN AN ORDER IN WHICH TO ATTEND AND THE LEAST IMPORTANT IS LAST ON THE LIST AND THE MOST IMPORTANT IS FIRST

[Ixion]

I notice you assign tagging a higher priority than dangerous (or careless) driving? Not necessarily disagreeing, just interested.

[WINJA]

I notice you assign tagging a higher priority than dangerous (or careless) driving? Not necessarily disagreeing, just interested.

CATCH A TAGGER AND I BET HES COMMITING MORE SERIOUS CRIME AND IF HES NOT HE WILL , SHOULD JUST CUT OFF HIS INDEX FINGER WHEN CAUGHT

[Ixion]

You subscribe then to the "broken windows" theory of policing - that a rigorous clampdown on "minor" crime reduces the amount of major crime - and actually means fewer police resources are needed (since a single "major" crime may take up as much police time as 100 "minor" ones) ?

[Squeak the Rat]

What if he crashed and spilled his brains? Cop has to pick those bits up with rubber gloves...and explain to the following procession that he just joined his son...

True, just as a cop would have to do if I fell off my roof and spilled my brains. He'd have to clean me up and explain to my family. It is an unfortunate part of the job that emergency services are paid to do. Is a cop going to tell me to get off my roof if he sees me just in case I fall off and he has to clean me up? No.

If the guy falls of his bike and dies, there are no victims. The cop does his job. His family grieve like what happens every single day in this country when some one dies through an accident or natural causes. I had a family member die recently. It wasn't pleasant. Am I a victim? Shit no.

The only issue for the cop is this. Here is a guy who is breaking the law. He is greiving for his son and either through respect, indifference or bad-judgement he has decided not to wear a helmet on his bike. The chances of him falling off are minimal (work out how many times you've binned for every 10 mins you've spent on the bike).

Does he:

Follow the law to the letter and bust him? Consequences - It is going to interrupt a funeral. This guy is going to hate cops forever. Some members of the public will say serves him right and their estimate of the cops will go up a fraction. Others will view this from a humanitarian aspect and their estimate of the police will either drop significantly, or if already low their opinion in their mind will be validated.

Decide to leave him and either deal with it later or not at all? Consequences - The guy can greive for his son uninterrupted. Some members of the public will say tut-tut. Others will view this as a compasionate or reasoned act from the cops and their estimate will increase significantly. If the guy does die (which is very unlikely) the cop has to explain to his superior why he didn't ticket him.

Evidence would suggest that like in most jobs cops will be backed up by their superiors for making a decision if it followed reasoned decision making and risk analysis.

I'm going skydiving next week. I could die if the parachute doesn't open. Emergency services will need to attend. The company running the planes will be affected. My family will grieve. Some one stop me! :)

[Pixie]

if the need called i wouldnt hesitate to ride lidless for a funeral....i also ride pegs down for funerals and on the anniversary of a death.

in this situation....i feel the cop was wrong for doing that at the time....a ticket or letter at a later date would have been more appropriate. i also think the father was wrong for flipping the bird. that woulda made him worse in the eyes of the cop and made his troubles worse. if it was slow speed, then i dont really see the problem [though harley at slow speed is slow to hold upright]

though i cant explain why i see it as a mark of respect, i do.
On the other hand it is traditional for women to show respect by covering their heads.

[Deano]

What about all the push bikes being ridden without helmets? Does the law not require a halmet to be worn when riding on a Bicycle? Where is the enforcement for that?


:killingme I did a runner through Newtown on a BMX bike once because of not wearing a helmet.

Got away too I did.

[Maha]

Police could have used common sense/better judgement and had one car at the end of the funeral to point out 'hey guy's nice touch but helmet's on ok' they aren't above the law cos somebody died. They way the cops went about it was fucked and wanky............:Police: :tugger:

[krash69]

Police could have used common sense/better judgement and had one car at the end of the funeral to point out 'hey guy's nice touch but helmet's on ok' they aren't above the law cos somebody died. They way the cops went about it was fucked and wanky............:Police: :tugger:


i agree there...:ride:

[Sniper]

:killingme I did a runner through Newtown on a BMX bike once because of not wearing a helmet.

Got away too I did.

Rebel :killingme :laugh: :ride:

[scumdog]

ITS EASY MATE I JUST PRIORITIZE ILL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE .
MURDERS,KIDDY FIDDELERS,RAPES,ASSAULT,BURGS,TAGGING, DANGEROUS DRIVING,CARELESS DRIVING,NOT INDICATING ,SPEEDING .
NOTICE I PUT THINGS IN AN ORDER IN WHICH TO ATTEND AND THE LEAST IMPORTANT IS LAST ON THE LIST AND THE MOST IMPORTANT IS FIRST

If you're THAT smart why are you not Commissioner and sorting this 'mess' out, smartarse??? :bleh:

[scumdog]

Police could have used common sense/better judgement and had one car at the end of the funeral to point out 'hey guy's nice touch but helmet's on ok' they aren't above the law cos somebody died. They way the cops went about it was fucked and wanky............:Police: :tugger:


According to the ever-accurate Herald (or whatever that arsewipe is called).

[scumdog]

CATCH A TAGGER AND I BET HES COMMITING MORE SERIOUS CRIME AND IF HES NOT HE WILL , SHOULD JUST CUT OFF HIS INDEX FINGER WHEN CAUGHT

Catch a speeder and I bet he's committing more serious crime and if he's not he will..........
<_<

[WINJA]

If you're THAT smart why are you not Commissioner and sorting this 'mess' out, smartarse??? :bleh:
IM NOT AN ACCOUNTANT SO I HAVE NO CHANCE

[scumdog]

IM NOT AN ACCOUNTANT SO I HAVE NO CHANCE

Shit no!!
Only a fartskin above a politician!!!

[Ixion]

Catch a speeder and I bet he's committing more serious crime and if he's not he will..........
<_<

Are you serious, or are you taking the mickey? I know that this philosophy is seriously expounded by some at Police HQ. They argue that speeders tend to be also the drunk drivers, and dangerous drivers, and that by cracking down on speeding they remove those drivers from the roads.

So, what do you think about the "broken windows" philosophy?

[Deano]

Catch a speeder and I bet he's committing more serious crime and if he's not he will..........
<_<

I would take that bet.


Are you serious, or are you taking the mickey? I know that this philosophy is seriously expounded by some at Police HQ. They argue that speeders tend to be also the drunk drivers, and dangerous drivers, and that by cracking down on speeding they remove those drivers from the roads.

So, what do you think about the "broken windows" philosophy?

Bling for that.

Come on SD - are you serious ? Do you honestly think that the majority of speeders (even 11Km over the limit) are hardened crims with something to hide ?

[sunhuntin]

On the other hand it is traditional for women to show respect by covering their heads.

traditional yes....but im not the traditional woman.....hell, ive even got chest hairs to prove it. im a biker first, woman second.

[Indoo]

ITS EASY MATE I JUST PRIORITIZE ILL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE .
MURDERS,KIDDY FIDDELERS,RAPES,ASSAULT,BURGS,TAGGING, DANGEROUS DRIVING,CARELESS DRIVING,NOT INDICATING ,SPEEDING .
NOTICE I PUT THINGS IN AN ORDER IN WHICH TO ATTEND AND THE LEAST IMPORTANT IS LAST ON THE LIST AND THE MOST IMPORTANT IS FIRST

Yeh because 400 or so people are dieing a year and thousands injured as a result of tagging? Even if Police did do a major crack down on taggers do you think its gonna make any difference when the courts just convict and discharge people of the offence, ie no penatly at all.

If you want to adopt the New York approach you have to have enuff cops and a decent justice system, we have neither. The Police association has been asking for years for more frontline cops, not more traffic or community cops ie labours brilliant solution, but more on the frontline.


..., IF ITS TRAFFIC CRIME THEN YOU GUYS ARE ALL OVER IT CAUSE THE FORCE IS FULL OF PUSSY YES MEN AND WOMAN WHO LIKE THE EASY OPTIONS .
IF THAT WASNT A FUNERAL BUT A GANG OF ANGELS OR HEAD HUNTERS OUT THE BACK OF WEST AUCKLAND WEARING NO HELMETS THERE IS NO CHANCE THAT COP WOULD PULL THEM OVER , WHAT A FUCKEN FAG

Yeh right , its one thing talking yourself up on the internet to the extent you do (over compensation or what?) and doing the same in reality. You would not have the guts or balls to handle even a fraction of what those so called 'pussys' do.

[kevie]

Aint it funny how they are soooooo adammant on pulling over a motorcyclist with no helmet in a funeral procession but the farmers blat along the road on UNREGISTERED, UNWARRANTED bikes with no helmets on and the cops do nothing ........ I dont see what the difference is really ... if you gonna make a law then shouldnt it be for ALL road users, farmers say they are not actually on the road ... they are on the margin.... if I rode my bike unregistered/unwarranted and no helmet in same place I'd get ticketed for sure.

[babyface]

fuck and the police wonder why the public dont want to help.
they have no common sence and the pwer has gone to their heads
just a pack of fuck wits:finger:

In light of the unavailability of patrol cars to attend the "Pokeno bad driver" incident, this is even more surprising (nz herald).........

When Les ("Jack") Jackson rode his motorbike behind the hearse carrying his son's body, he was not expecting to be pulled over by the police.

But the grieving father and his family were left distressed after Henderson police tried to stop him for not wearing a motorcycle helmet in the funeral cortege.

Mr Jackson, a member of the Akarana Riders Club, says he rode his Harley-Davidson without a helmet as a mark of respect to his only child, Dean, a blind man who died of an epileptic seizure at 26.

Three police cars tried to stop him in the short distance between the funeral at the Lincoln Rd Bible Chapel and the burial at the Waikumete Cemetery, pushing in behind Mr Jackson and in front of his wife, Kerry, who was being driven behind him.

The funeral director, who declined to be named, complained to the police.

"The mother was extremely upset that they cut in between her and the hearse, and so were a number of other people," he said.

Dean Jackson was active in his church and a regular guest on the Radio Live show Dawn Patrol with Des and Les, where he sang songs on air.

Co-host Bruce Hopkins (aka "Les"), one of 400 people at the funeral, said: "I came out on to Lincoln Rd and there were about 12 or 15 big motorbikes, Harleys and all sorts, which held up the traffic until they could all get in a line and travel along Lincoln Rd. I had tears in my eyes because it was such a powerful image."

But another mourner, who was listening to the police radio in his car, said he heard a an officer describe the procession as "a gang funeral".

Mr Jackson, a truck driver, refused to stop when the police cars pushed in. "There was no way I was pulling over. That would have held everyone up."

When the cortege stopped at a roundabout, an officer shouted to Mr Jackson asking him again to pull over.

"I pointed to the hearse and said, 'That's my son in there'," Mr Jackson said. "He said, 'I don't care'. That's when I gave him the one-finger salute, which evidently he got upset about."

The three police cars in the cortege were joined by two more at the cemetery, but the officers allowed the burial to go ahead. When the mourners left, the police had gone. No charge was laid against Mr Jackson.

Waitakere area police commander Inspector Mark O'Connor said in a statement yesterday that the law did not allow an exemption from wearing a helmet in a funeral cortege.

"Police are sensitive to the needs of families in these circumstances."

[WINJA]

Yeh because 400 or so people are dieing a year and thousands injured as a result of tagging? Even if Police did do a major crack down on taggers do you think its gonna make any difference when the courts just convict and discharge people of the offence, ie no penatly at all.

If you want to adopt the New York approach you have to have enuff cops and a decent justice system, we have neither. The Police association has been asking for years for more frontline cops, not more traffic or community cops ie labours brilliant solution, but more on the frontline.



Yeh right , its one thing talking yourself up on the internet to the extent you do (over compensation or what?) and doing the same in reality. You would not have the guts or balls to handle even a fraction of what those so called 'pussys' do.
8000 PEOPLE JUST GOT CUT FROM SURGERY WAITING LISTS ,HOW MANY OF THEM WILL DIE? THATS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBURG FOR UNECESRY DEATHS IN THIS COUNTRY , WHAT ABOUT SUICIDES , SO ITS NOT LIFE OR DEATH THAT CONCERNS THIS GOVERNMENT ITS MONEY MONEY MONEY AND YOU GUYS ARE THE COLLECTORS.


AS FOR HAVING THE GUTS OR BALLS TO HANDLE WHAT YOU GUYS DO , ITS YOUR FUCKEN JOB YOU SIGNED UP FOR IT NOT ME . :finger:

[Squeak the Rat]

Yeh because 400 or so people are dieing a year and thousands injured as a result of tagging?
The biggest single cause of road deaths in this country is premature death as a result of vehicle pollution. In one year there were 253 in Auckland alone (source: ARC website: http://www.arc.govt.nz/arc/environment/air/motor-vehicles/motor-vehicle-effects.cfm)

Is saving lives the biggest factor in all this? If so,

Where is the low sulphur diesel in this country???
When will vehicle emissions be part of the WOF test???

Government inaction would suggest that revenue is a higher priority than saving lives. Believing otherwise would suggest brainwashing, or.......

[Troll]

Police could have used common sense/better judgement and had one car at the end of the funeral to point out 'hey guy's nice touch but helmet's on ok' they aren't above the law cos somebody died.

they have on occassions used cameras taken photo's and sent tickets out in the mail after the event

more sensitive handling of a situation but still a waste of valuable resources that could have been used for more important issues

[terbang]

The law says we must wear a lid. So they are looking after our heads, our heads and no one elses in other words who do we directly harm by not wearing a lid other than ourselves.? So I reckon this law is about looking after the health budget..
So its the law and you don't have one and get caught then I guess you pay the fine..
However in this funeral case I would also go along with the word discretion and would hope that appropriate Rozzers have been spoken to..

[Indoo]

....WHAT ABOUT SUICIDES , SO ITS NOT LIFE OR DEATH THAT CONCERNS THIS GOVERNMENT ITS MONEY MONEY MONEY AND YOU GUYS ARE THE COLLECTORS.

Well not really, the whole revenue thing is a complete joke, if they really wanted money they would focus on license breaches (400 bucks a pop) and wof and registeration ( 200 bucks a pop). They might have a misguided focus on speed but its nothing to do with revenue.


AS FOR HAVING THE GUTS OR BALLS TO HANDLE WHAT YOU GUYS DO , ITS YOUR FUCKEN JOB YOU SIGNED UP FOR IT NOT ME . :finger:

Well exactly, your an internet warrior, and thats about that.

[WINJA]

yea right :tugger:
WHAT THE FUCK WOULD YOU KNOW , YOU LEFT SCHOOL AND WENT STRAIGHT INTO THE FORCE , YOUD KNOW FUCK ALL ABOUT NOTHING APART FROM THE BRAINWASHING AT PIG SCHOOL

[WINJA]

Were you still in school at 20? :tugger:

NAH , I WAS BANGING YOUR MUM IN THE ARSE

[slimjim]

He road without a helmet as a mark of respect?, How on God's green earth does that show a mark of respect?. It shows a marked decrease in common sense, and points towards a good escuse to go for a ride with no lid. Maybe he should have got whacked out on P, got drunk, and dragged a live dog behind the bike as a mark of respect too. Idiotic.

well he wasn't on P. he wasn't DrunK, however he Was Following His SON.. and he seems to love aniamls,, shit unlike yourself

[Albino]

AS FOR HAVING THE GUTS OR BALLS TO HANDLE WHAT YOU GUYS DO , ITS YOUR FUCKEN JOB YOU SIGNED UP FOR IT NOT ME . :finger:

Understanding that I might incur the wrath of the CAPS personality :), dm had the "balls" to not do his job when he didn't bust the bronz riders for ridiing helmeless.

Having said that, I think dm and winj are thirds in the same multiple personality :rofl:

Squeeks right. bust those stinking dielsels!

[scumdog]

AS FOR HAVING THE GUTS OR BALLS TO HANDLE WHAT YOU GUYS DO , ITS YOUR FUCKEN JOB YOU SIGNED UP FOR IT NOT ME . :finger:

That about sums up your whole act WINJA -no guts, no balls - too scared to join Police and make a difference!!:finger: :bleh:

[Hitcher]

Not wearing helmets in funeral processions? It's a bit like putting up white crosses by the side of the road. People don't know any better, or form beliefs based on what they see others around them doing. A bit like sacrificing animals or virgins, or dunking witches. It's OK as long as it does no harm and you don't expect others to take you seriously. In this case the Police didn't. Take your lumps and wear a helmet.

[Drunken Monkey]

The biggest single cause of road deaths in this country is premature death as a result of vehicle pollution. ...

You know those are only correlative statistics - those numbers are not based on direct cause findings from coroner or medical report from the actual death of the victim. Whilst there is possibly some merit to relationship of a build up of harmful substances from vehicle emissions contributing to a person's death, it's not as real or clear cut as say, someone running their car in a garage as suicide attempt.

[denill]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamytus50
Were you still in school at 20?


NAH , I WAS BANGING YOUR MUM IN THE ARSE

Hey Winja, don't ever leave us will you - cos you really have a way with words................

[Hitcher]

NAH , I WAS BANGING YOUR MUM IN THE ARSE
The BDOTGNZA are conflicted by this statement.

[Jantar]

The biggest single cause of road deaths in this country is premature death as a result of vehicle pollution. In one year there were 253 in Auckland alone (source: ARC website: http://www.arc.govt.nz/arc/environment/air/motor-vehicles/motor-vehicle-effects.cfm).............

Believing [this] would suggest brainwashing.

I would challenge you to name a single person in New Zealand who has died because of vehicle pollution, or to give a reference to a verifiable single case of death due to vehicle pollution.

What has happened in studies such as the one that the ARC have based their claim on is that a measure has been made in the increase of air polution due to vehicle emmissions, and a measure is made on the number of people dying due to respitory illnesses, then a correllation is drawn between the two.

However any scientist or even statistician will tell you that correlation does not automatically mean causation. Using their logic I would claim that 100% of drug addicts in New Zealand were fed on milk during the first six months of their lives. Therefore feeding infants on milk causes drug addiction.

[Squeak the Rat]

Believing [this] would suggest brainwashing.

I would challenge you to name a single person in New Zealand who has died because of vehicle pollution, or to give a reference to a verifiable single case of death due to vehicle pollution.

What has happened in studies such as the one that the ARC have based their claim on is that a measure has been made in the increase of air polution due to vehicle emmissions, and a measure is made on the number of people dying due to respitory illnesses, then a correllation is drawn between the two.

However any scientist or even statistician will tell you that correlation does not automatically mean causation. Using their logic I would claim that 100% of drug addicts in New Zealand were fed on milk during the first six months of their lives. Therefore feeding infants on milk causes drug addiction.

Haha yes, good points and I do realise the issues with the stat I quoted. I just hoped no one else would :)

But I have the similar issues applying speeding as the cause of road fatalities. It seems that if some one dies on the road and they were travelling over the speed limit then speed is automatically either the cause or a factor. :mobile:

But that's a discussion for another day.....

[Pixie]

There are many ways of showing respect. - not wearing a hat is one of them.
Whats with the safety nazi kick again. its not as though he was hairing off through the countryside or riding around town as a normal matter of course - he was in a funeral cortege for gods sake!
Once again its a lack of common sense or discretion on the part of a public official, who lets zealotry for the letter of the law or regulation take precedence over a real life situation where a little common sense would have avoided the whole shemozzle. - and it doesnt just apply just to the police - every public regulatory body has people in them who are guilty of the same lack of judgement.
Another case of zealous attempted application of the letter of the law, not the spirit of the law!
This is a safety issue.
What if,while riding without a helmet,his head exploded as the cortege was passing a primary school,killing thousands of kids.
Won't someone think of the children?

[Pixie]

Why were charges not pressed?
Probably because some reasonable boss cop with common sense (there are a few) told the piglets to stop being cunts and pull their heads in.

[Pixie]

By the way
I assume everybody in the cortege four wheeled vehicles were wearing their seatbelts,since there is no report of the cops stopping the cars.
Huh, huh?

[Hitcher]

By the way
I assume everybody in the cortege four wheeled vehicles were wearing their seatbelts,since there is no report of the cops stopping the cars.
Huh, huh?
Presumably people don't choose to not wear their seatbelts as a mark of "respect" for the dead. For heaven's sake.

[Paul in NZ]

I read this stuff and I go 'yeah rigggghhhttt'

People mourn in different ways. If the dead guys dad and his mates wanna turn up at the funeral on bikes? Sure, no worries, who knows, the son may have liked riding on the back some times (he was blind I think)! But it's not really a biker funeral is it? The whole helmet off thing is a bit off a 'Easyriders wanna be thing isn't it?

Anyway!

Looking at the original post.. Someone in a car was listening to the Police channel on their radio? Um! Gee, I've been to a few funerals and I can't say anyone has been listening to a scanner... That sounds a bit - um - unusual?

I'd say there is a lot more to this story than meets the eye and it's not worth getting your knickers in a twist over!

[froggyfrenchman]

The whole helmet off thing is a bit off a 'Easyriders wanna be thing isn't it?


I hope you never have to loose someone close enough to you that you understand my point of view.

Admitadbly, it the case in question.. the kid was not a biker, and so im gonna have to sit on the fence on that particular case.

In the case of any biker funeral, however. I have always and will always take my hat off.

[brianemone]

Seems a strange way to mourn. i can totally understand the riding the bike part, but the whole helmet fiasco seems a little bizzare.

[ManDownUnder]

Anyway!

Looking at the original post.. Someone in a car was listening to the Police channel on their radio? Um! Gee, I've been to a few funerals and I can't say anyone has been listening to a scanner... That sounds a bit - um - unusual?

I'd say there is a lot more to this story than meets the eye and it's not worth getting your knickers in a twist over!

Agreed - and my 5c (without being arsed reading 100's of posts) - if the cops did what the press reported them doing - wouldn't it have been more appropriate to tackle the no helmet issue after tha fact> Get a photo of the guy, get his rego - do whatever it took evidentially... then sit back and have a word to him AFTERWARDS.

Go knock on his door the following day or something...? Or is that too simple?

[Hitcher]

Go knock on his door the following day or something...? Or is that too simple?
At face value, maybe. But there could be liability issues if said nong on bike had come off and hurt his head when the constabulary had had full knowledge and could have done something to prevent such an injury occuring.

The law says "Wear your hat, don't be a prat."

[ManDownUnder]

At face value, maybe. But there could be liability issues if said nong on bike had come off and hurt his head when the constabulary had had full knowledge and could have done something to prevent such an injury occuring.

The law says "Wear your hat, don't be a prat."

I see the dilemma (I did before actually) but if the guy's only doing 20kph judgement says you sit back and watch.

If he's doing something to indicate injury is more likely - then yeah.

That all being said - I only know what the press have told me and for some reason I expect it's no the whole story
MDU

[Paul in NZ]

I hope you never have to loose someone close enough to you that you understand my point of view.

Admitadbly, it the case in question.. the kid was not a biker, and so im gonna have to sit on the fence on that particular case.

In the case of any biker funeral, however. I have always and will always take my hat off.

Dude I've been to lots of em!! People I cared about and rode with. Half the time, most of the people 'showing respect' didn't know the guest of honour from a bar of soap! I got a bit jaded on that whole 'biker code of honour' thing after a while!

I took Vicki to a funeral of a mate that died in a head on. We were good mates for ages. In fact there was a greasy spot on the fall where he used to lean back on his crate of beer and the leather jacket stained the paper! We took the car cos it was a crap day and my bike didn't have any pillion pegs on it and I'd not long come back from overseas. My mates were just glad to see me and were real nice to Vicki etc but I got a lot of shit from people who barely knew me OR the victim but wanted to be seen in the parade. Funnily enough his family and friends were just glad to see us there!

Friends are friends in life and in death. I couldn't gives a flat rats arse if you turn up to my final going away party on a unicycle. I just really think a lot of this biker funeral stuff is overdone! Sorry if it offends you! We might just have to agree to disagree and I promise I'll turn up lid less for your bash should you be unlucky enough to go before me!

Picture is of me and a few mates headed off at around the same time as the events i described. Mid 70's, pre cheap HD imports

[Albino]

I find it amazing how many people here advocate strict adherence to the law on this issue, but will happily ignore other laws to suit.

Yes, the speed limit is law.

Yes, going 104 is breaking the law, but you all do it.

[scumdog]

I got a bit jaded on that whole 'biker code of honour' thing after a while!



Got to agree Paul, I've probably been guilty of over indulging in this mythical 'code of honour' thing myself in the past.

Now it's take each guy/situation as they come along, staunch 'brotherhood' stuff is for the wannabes and gang members i.e. those who have yet to leave adolescence. (sheeit, I can talk!!)

Nothing wrong with a bit of moral support and comradeship but some get a bit carried away eh?

[Ixion]

'Tis not a matter of mourning, BTW. It's a matter of respect. If I see a funeral cortege and I'm on foot and wearing a hat, I'll remove said hat until the cortege has passed. As would any gentleman.

If I'm stopped by the roadside on my bike and a cortge goes past, I'll get off and remove my helmet, until it is passed. As, I opine, would any gentleman.

If parked in my car, I'll get out and stand by the car, uncovered.

In all cases, regardless of whether I know who the procession is "for" (so mourning is irrelevant) .

It is a matter of breeding and respect in our society to honour the dead , whoever they may be, by uncovering.

Such things are certainly not NECESSARY. And if you choose to ignore them , no-one can prevent you doing so.

But such small politenesses and common courtesies are the lubricant of society. Those who knowingly flout them , show themselves anti-social, those who unwittingly flout them risk being thought ill bred.

Boorishness and ill manners improverish all of us.

In this case, there is a conflict betwixt good manners and the letter of the law. So those who prefer to obey the law may be excused. But those who choose to follow the precepts of good conduct are deserving of having their choice respected.

Personally, I would ride lidless , so long as the speed was slow (20kph or so).

[Hitcher]

I find it amazing how many people here advocate strict adherence to the law on this issue, but will happily ignore other laws to suit.

Yes, the speed limit is law.

Yes, going 104 is breaking the law, but you all do it.
The issue here isn't choosing the break the law. It's about getting pissed off and looking for excuses when you're busted.

[Paul in NZ]

If I'm stopped by the roadside on my bike and a cortge goes past, I'll get off and remove my helmet, until it is passed. As, I opine, would any gentleman.


While the rest of the country is around at the family home making off with the TV! Also Ixion, there are few gentlefolk left in the world!

Besides, I wus bought up common guv'nor

[marty]

Why were charges not pressed?
Probably because some reasonable boss cop with common sense (there are a few) told the piglets to stop being cunts and pull their heads in.

i also wondered if anyone else had read that post

[sunhuntin]

....snip....


ixion....i was taught to pull over for a funeral......but now i see very few people even do that these days. i try to ,and generally will if im not late.

:no:

[spudchucka]

Its good to see that the quality of the KB fuck da pigs threads has remained constant in my absence.

[Bandit Rider]

There is a time and place for everything - well most things. Anyone who has any serious responsibility should know there are times to look the other way. It was one of those times.

[number33]

Two guys are playing golf. 1st guy is about to sink a putt when a funeral procession drives by the course. As the coffin passes, 1st guy removes his cap and stands in silence for 30 seconds. 2nd guy says 'That was a very caring and sensitive thing to do" As he lines up the putt again, 1st guy says "Yes, we were married for 30 years you know"

[Motu]

Dude I've been to lots of em!! People I cared about and rode with. Half the time, most of the people 'showing respect' didn't know the guest of honour from a bar of soap! I got a bit jaded on that whole 'biker code of honour' thing after a while!

I just really think a lot of this biker funeral stuff is overdone! Sorry if it offends you!


Exactly.Late last year I went to the funeral of a member of Auckland's dominant bike gang in the early '70's,three past presidents were there.I didn't know the guy that well,he wouldn't of known who the hell I was,but I went with a very good friend of mine from those days who did know him well.When he rung to tell me I got the impression he would like me to come with him,and as I was usualy with him when we met this guy and his associates I thought it would be good to respect the wishes of one of the best friends I've ever had.

There was no prosession with bikes,no show of ''colours'',the gang has been forgotten,although there were bikes present in the parking lot.It was just a gathering of fairly normal looking people dressed in black,a casual observer would of seen nothing different than what goes on everyday there.But as far as ''biker'' funerals go,this guy would of been far more deserving of the full regalia....but everyone there was well over those days,it was just a day of rememberance and respect.

[kro]

So to summarise:

The "safety nazi's" are wankers.

We must pay full respect to the dead, and little, if any to the living.

We must respect all dead people, even if we don't know them, and they may have died by putting a gun to their head after raping and killing a teenage girl.

Wearing seatbelts is the same as wearing helmets, and doesn't really assist in any way, to injury minimisation.

All cops are fuckheads.

People should be able to ride lidless, because it's their right to choose, in much the same way it's peoples right to drive drunk, and speed.

That's about all I glean from this thread, and agree with none of it.

[Hitcher]

That's about all I glean from this thread, and agree with none of it.
And all of us are none the wiser.

[Patrick]

ITS EASY MATE I JUST PRIORITIZE ILL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE .
MURDERS,KIDDY FIDDELERS,RAPES,ASSAULT,BURGS,TAGGING, DANGEROUS DRIVING,CARELESS DRIVING,NOT INDICATING ,SPEEDING .
NOTICE I PUT THINGS IN AN ORDER IN WHICH TO ATTEND AND THE LEAST IMPORTANT IS LAST ON THE LIST AND THE MOST IMPORTANT IS FIRST

So traffic enforcement is unimportant to you... we get your pointless drivel... constantly...again and again...:finger:

300 to 400 or more deaths EVERY YEAR not important enough for you?

Speed does kill, so does dangerous driving, so does careless... unsure about not indicating, but sure pisses plenty off... drink drivers don't get a mention I see... :doh: :bleh:

[Ixion]

Hm, that begs the question, though, of how many of those 3-400 could be prevented by any practical level of law enforcement.

Or, indeed, how many of them are actually directly attributable to a discrete breach of the law? I can think of many fatal crashes where no law has been broken. Some are due to incompetance, some to stupidity, some just to sheer bad luck.

Mr WINJA's point, though exaggerated, is a valid one. Personally I also would place burglary at a higher priority than catching 115kph speeders

[Quasievil]

..................:zzzz:

[Ixion]

Yeah, quite right,that too. drivers falling asleep causes quite a few crashes.

[WINJA]

So traffic enforcement is unimportant to you... we get your pointless drivel... constantly...again and again...:finger:

300 to 400 or more deaths EVERY YEAR not important enough for you?

Speed does kill, so does dangerous driving, so does careless... unsure about not indicating, but sure pisses plenty off... drink drivers don't get a mention I see... :doh: :bleh:
AFTER UNCLE HELENS SPEEDING MOTORCADE WE ALL KNOW YOU PRICKS ARE FULL OF SHIT , IF I GOT CAUGHT DOING 160KMH AND GOT AWAY FROM YOU GUYS BUT YOU CAUGHT UP WITH ME 2 DAYS LATER I KNOW YOUD TAKE MY LICENCE OFF ME FOR 28 DAYS , BEFORE YOU START LIEING IVE JUST SEEN IT HAPPEN , YET A COUPLE OF PIGS AND A CIVILIAN THAT ARE SPEEDING TO A RUGBY GAME GET EITHER NOTHING OR NEXT TO NOTHING , IF ROAD SAFETY WAS NOT A CROCK OF SHIT ALL THOSE DRIVERS SHOULD OF HAD MANDATORY 28 DAYS LOSS OF LICENCE THEN AN APERANCE IN COURT FOR DANGEROUS WITH A CONVICTION , LETS NOT FORGET THE AMOUNT OF CONCERNED CITIZENS THAT CALLED IN ALONG THE WHOLE ROUTE , IT WAS DANGEROUS DRIVING OF THE WORST KIND YET YOU BITCHES ALL CLOSED RANKS AND DISHED OUT GAY HANDSHAKES ALL ROUND, IF YOU FUCKERS ARE SO DUMB AS NOT TO ASK WHAT THE URGENCY IS THEN YOUR ALL TOO STUPID TO BE ON THE ROAD

[Smorg]

average man, real average

[imdying]

catch a tagger and i bet hes commiting more serious crime and if hes not he will , should just cut off his index finger when caught
that's just stupid!!! can't believe you'd waste time doing that. cut both his whole bloody hands off.

[Paul in NZ]

So traffic enforcement is unimportant to you... we get your pointless drivel... constantly...again and again...:finger:

300 to 400 or more deaths EVERY YEAR not important enough for you?

Speed does kill, so does dangerous driving, so does careless... unsure about not indicating, but sure pisses plenty off... drink drivers don't get a mention I see... :doh: :bleh:

Lets NOT turn this into another Police bashing thread by throwing petrol on the fire! No one likes the road toll but as others have pointed out thats NOT the argument. The real argument is wether or not the current practises and policies are effective in reducing the road toll. The second argument is something along the lines of 'so what?'. More people die each year because of lack of appropriate medical treatment of things like prostrate cancer etc and yet not much is said about that.

The easy reductions in the road toll have been made and most people think thats reasonable. To get more reductions, better education, better social conditions and a few other things need to be sorted out.

[Skyryder]

AFTER UNCLE HELENS SPEEDING MOTORCADE WE ALL KNOW YOU PRICKS ARE FULL OF SHIT , IF I GOT CAUGHT DOING 160KMH AND GOT AWAY FROM YOU GUYS BUT YOU CAUGHT UP WITH ME 2 DAYS LATER I KNOW YOUD TAKE MY LICENCE OFF ME FOR 28 DAYS , BEFORE YOU START LIEING IVE JUST SEEN IT HAPPEN , YET A COUPLE OF PIGS AND A CIVILIAN THAT ARE SPEEDING TO A RUGBY GAME GET EITHER NOTHING OR NEXT TO NOTHING , IF ROAD SAFETY WAS NOT A CROCK OF SHIT ALL THOSE DRIVERS SHOULD OF HAD MANDATORY 28 DAYS LOSS OF LICENCE THEN AN APERANCE IN COURT FOR DANGEROUS WITH A CONVICTION , LETS NOT FORGET THE AMOUNT OF CONCERNED CITIZENS THAT CALLED IN ALONG THE WHOLE ROUTE , IT WAS DANGEROUS DRIVING OF THE WORST KIND YET YOU BITCHES ALL CLOSED RANKS AND DISHED OUT GAY HANDSHAKES ALL ROUND, IF YOU FUCKERS ARE SO DUMB AS NOT TO ASK WHAT THE URGENCY IS THEN YOUR ALL TOO STUPID TO BE ON THE ROAD

Right on Winj. Right on. And the fuckers had thier convictions overturned.

How many here know that??

Skyryder

[Indoo]

Right on Winj. Right on. And the fuckers had thier convictions overturned.

How many here know that??

Skyryder

They all had their convictions overturned? thats news to me.

As far as I was aware it was the civilian driver of Helens car and like one of the cops or something....

It would have been much more interesting if they had charged the appropriate people with party to dangerous driving....

[Indoo]

AFTER UNCLE HELENS SPEEDING MOTORCADE WE ALL KNOW YOU PRICKS ARE FULL OF SHIT , IF I GOT CAUGHT DOING 160KMH AND GOT AWAY FROM YOU GUYS BUT YOU CAUGHT UP WITH ME 2 DAYS LATER I KNOW YOUD TAKE MY LICENCE OFF ME FOR 28 DAYS , BEFORE YOU START LIEING IVE JUST SEEN IT HAPPEN , YET A COUPLE OF PIGS AND A CIVILIAN THAT ARE SPEEDING TO A RUGBY GAME GET EITHER NOTHING OR NEXT TO NOTHING , IF ROAD SAFETY WAS NOT A CROCK OF SHIT ALL THOSE DRIVERS SHOULD OF HAD MANDATORY 28 DAYS LOSS OF LICENCE THEN AN APERANCE IN COURT FOR DANGEROUS WITH A CONVICTION , LETS NOT FORGET THE AMOUNT OF CONCERNED CITIZENS THAT CALLED IN ALONG THE WHOLE ROUTE , IT WAS DANGEROUS DRIVING OF THE WORST KIND YET YOU BITCHES ALL CLOSED RANKS AND DISHED OUT GAY HANDSHAKES ALL ROUND, IF YOU FUCKERS ARE SO DUMB AS NOT TO ASK WHAT THE URGENCY IS THEN YOUR ALL TOO STUPID TO BE ON THE ROAD

Winja before you start ranting off, it does help if you have even a basic knowledge of the law.

From memory they were not charged with dangerous speed, but dangerous driving which is a much more serious charge. There is no mandatory suspension with dangerous driving so no, you like the cops would not have had your license suspended for 28 days. And most likely had you just been seen by members of the public travelling at those speeds absolutely nothing would have happened as a result. He doesn't have to lie when your that wrong off the bat now does he.

And if you did not miss it, all the cops did have an appearence in court where they were convicted. No-one closed ranks, they were charged after a Police investigation which kinda makes a mockery of that claim...

They were wrong and paid for it, but your claims are so off base, that even for you they are laughable.

Although according to the P.Ms press secretary there was nothing wrong with that kinda speed because they could have been late to another engagement. Try using that as a defense next time in court...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10339074

[WINJA]

They all had their convictions overturned? thats news to me.

As far as I was aware it was the civilian driver of Helens car and like one of the cops or something....

It would have been much more interesting if they had charged the appropriate people with party to dangerous driving....
AND I CANT DISAGREE WITH YOU INDOO , HELEN SAID SHE WAS NOT AWARE THAT THE CAR WAS SPEEDING BUT MOST OF US CAN TELL WITHOUT LOOKING AT A SPEEDO THAT A CAR IS GOING TO FAST , I BELIEVE SHE ENCOURAGED A DANGEROUS ACT IN A ROUNDABOUT SORT OF WAY AND NEW FULL WELL THAT THEY WERE SPEEDING TO GET HER TO THE GAME , BUT AS POINTED OUT TO ME BY A COP 'THE ONUS IS ON THE DRIVER TO OBEY THE LAW' NOT THAT HELEN DIDNT HELP THEM TO BREAK THE LAW.


BUT GET BACK TO BASICS , HOW CAN THOSE SAME COPS HAND OUT TICKETS FOR 110 KMH AND TAKE LICENCES ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD THEN DRIVE LIKE THEY DID , THOSE COPS AND CIVILIAN DRIVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN DEALT WITH SEVERLY IF ANYTHING JUST TO REINFORCE THE SPEEDING/DANGEROUS DRIVING MESSAGE

[WINJA]

Winja before you start ranting off, it does help if you have even a basic knowledge of the law.

From memory they were not charged with dangerous speed, but dangerous driving which is a much more serious charge. There is no mandatory suspension with dangerous driving so no, you like the cops would not have had your license suspended for 28 days. And most likely had you just been seen by members of the public travelling at those speeds absolutely nothing would have happened as a result. He doesn't have to lie when your that wrong off the bat now does he.

And if you did not miss it, all the cops did have an appearence in court where they were convicted. No-one closed ranks, they were charged after a Police investigation which kinda makes a mockery of that claim...

They were wrong and paid for it, but your claims are so off base, that even for you they are laughable.

Although according to the P.Ms press secretary there was nothing wrong with that kinda speed because they could have been late to another engagement. Try using that as a defense next time in court...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10339074


I THINK YOULL FIND SOME COPS OUT THERE ARE REALLY TAKING THE PISS WITH THIS 28 DAY LOSS OF LICENCE IVE SEEN EVIDENCE OF SOME GROSS INJUSTICES , AS IVE SEEN A FEW TIMES GOING 160KMH IS INSTANT LOSS FOR 28 DAYS EVEN IF YOUR NOT CAUGHT IN A HOT PURSUIT SITUATION FOR INSTANCES DAYS LATER ON YOUR DOORSTEP , AND THATS 160KMH WITH NO OTHER OFFENCES LIKE WHEELSTANDS OR RUNNERS

[Indoo]

I THINK YOULL FIND SOME COPS OUT THERE ARE REALLY TAKING THE PISS WITH THIS 28 DAY LOSS OF LICENCE IVE SEEN EVIDENCE OF SOME GROSS INJUSTICES , AS IVE SEEN A FEW TIMES GOING 160KMH IS INSTANT LOSS FOR 28 DAYS EVEN IF YOUR NOT CAUGHT IN A HOT PURSUIT SITUATION FOR INSTANCES DAYS LATER ON YOUR DOORSTEP , AND THATS 160KMH WITH NO OTHER OFFENCES LIKE WHEELSTANDS OR RUNNERS

Yep but that would be if your charged with that offence, not the more serious one of straight dangerous. If the cops had been charged with driving at a dangerous speed then they would have suffered the same penalty, esp being cops.

The ironic thing is if they had done wheelys etc rather than just straight speed they would not actually lose there licences instantly, but would lose them for a longer time at a later date when they appeared in court. I think thats the way it works, don't ask me the logic behind it.

[Skyryder]

The bottom line and I think this is the point that Winja is making that there is one law for us and an exemption for the Police. This certainly appearsto be true not only for the motor cade drivers but going by some police comments on this site they cana break the speeding laws with impunity. The only time that the Police 'are percieved' act against there own is when it come to the media's attention. This is what I should have done when I reported the Police redlight runner. Never did hear from them. Bloody well won't make that mistake next time I see one go through a redlight.

Don't often agree with you Winj but on this I do.

Skyryder

[buellbabe]

Sadly I have been to a few biker funerals in my time, the most recent of these on New Years day. The people organising the funeral run let radio stations AND the cops know what was planned and the cops stopped traffic on StateHW 1 so that all the bikes could pull out from Puhoi safely. My partners funeral run had a police escort thru Hamilton. The cops stopped all the traffic at every intersection for us. We showed courtesy to the cops by letting them know what we were planning and they returned the favour. Went to another biker funeral where once again the local cops were informed and consequently they let it be known that they would turn a blind eye to no lids...
Its a huge shame the the cops in question in this instance weren't better informed and IMO they showed a total lack of respect.

[Skyryder]

Rubbish, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Those guys didnt get off, the parlimentary driver did on appeal. The Police have not appealed their convictions to my knowledge?

I'm of the opinion that they all have appealed and won. Read something to that effect some time ago. If one civilian driver got off then there is no reason as to why the police drivers would not get off.

Skyryder

[WINJA]

its 140 is the limit you loose your licence for 28 days :tugger:

160 isnt dangerous? of course it is, just people love speed, human nature.

But if you get caught you get caught.
HELENS MOTORCADE GOT UP TO 160KMH , IM WELL AWARE OF THE 140 INSTANT LOSS , AT THE TIME OF THE PIGS NEGLEGENT DRIVING THE LIMIT WAS 150 .

[WINJA]

if you were in the car youd know its speeding wouldnt you .
anyways why would i belive anything you say , your just another lieing pig with an agenda , that agenda is to make a wage the safest way possible

[igor]

In the new boy racer legislation you can get locked up and have ya car impounded for racing.

did you know under the definition of race that if the cop wants to be a real prick every person he stops for speeding he could charge them with this. yes they made a little error when they wrote the legislation and racing can be only one vehicle drawing attention to themselves and exceeding the speed limit. but at the moment the policeman are being nice.

cause they are such nice blokes

they also may a error in the breach of liquor ban legislation but yet again the police are being sensible about it and not binning every person who brachs it but using commonsense

best to keep ya mouth shut or you could be the first to piss a cop off and his common sense goes out the door due to YOUR BIG UNEDUCATED MISINFORMED MOUTH

love IGOR

[scumdog]

if you were in the car youd know its speeding wouldnt you .
anyways why would i belive anything you say , your just another lieing pig with an agenda , that agenda is to make a wage the safest way possible


If you ride as well as you write it would be money easily earned when you're around!:nya:

Anyway why would I believe you, you're just another lying member of the public with an agenda............

[Lou Girardin]

Instead of new cops having to pass a fitness test before they join, could they adminster a common sense and simple respect test instead?

[scumdog]

Instead of new cops having to pass a fitness test before they join, could they adminster a common sense and simple respect test instead?

But Lou, they're meant to be a cross-section of society, a reflection of them - and look at society, hardly overburdened with common sense and respect are they?!

[Patrick]

Instead of new cops having to pass a fitness test before they join, could they adminster a common sense and simple respect test instead?

Yep, like a drivers licence test? Thats all common sense isn't it?

Look how far that gets people... should you wear a helmet on motorbikes while driving on roads? Ummmmmm.....

The MAXIMUM speed limit on a 100kmph road is.....? Ummmm...

Bugger... too hard... it hurts...

Respect test is easier. Speak how you would like to be spoken to... but there is always exceptions to the rules I suppose....

[Lou Girardin]

But Lou, they're meant to be a cross-section of society, a reflection of them - and look at society, hardly overburdened with common sense and respect are they?!

Yeah sure spud, but you could have done without the rapists, wifebeaters/people beaters ( 2 more in court down south), drug dealers and assorted other bottom feeders.

[Lou Girardin]

EDIT: Drug dealers?

Yup, last year a cop in Rotovegas sold/gave confiscated meth to his mates.
Besides, saying you're not as bad as other cops is like me saying I'm law-abiding compared to some of the inveterate runners on this site. Probably true, but still not good enough.

[spudchucka]

Yeah sure spud,
Don't drag me into this one darling.

[knuckles]

I have never taken nor seen a cop take a bribe, or any other similar type of corruption.To be honest you couldnt do it, we really do pride ourselves in that we dont do that sort of thing, were better than that.



YEAH RIGHT...

[Indoo]

... you're not as bad as other cops is like me saying I'm law-abiding compared to some of the inveterate runners on this site. Probably true, but still not good enough.

There will always be bad cops, just like there will always be doctors who molest patients, teachers who sleep with kids, priests who rape children and lawyers who defraud clients.

The fact that those Police brought before the court which you referred too, were dobbed in by other colleagues who are now testifying against them which kinda negates your inference of wide spread corruption.

[scumdog]

I have never taken nor seen a cop take a bribe, or any other similar type of corruption.To be honest you couldnt do it, we really do pride ourselves in that we dont do that sort of thing, were better than that.



YEAH RIGHT...
So how many have YOU seen take a bribe????

PM me with hard provable facts if you're too shy to post on the site.

[Patrick]

So how many have YOU seen take a bribe????

PM me with hard provable facts if you're too shy to post on the site.


Bugger... beat me to it Spud...

Come on Knuckles... show me too...

Sounds more like you enjoy your Videos too much and believe what you see in them as real life.

Was offered a bribe last year by a drunk driver "to make it go away." First and only time in 21 years! I was completely taken back by it and never thought it would happen...

Didn't think anyone would be that stupid to offer.

Anyhow, after my sudden trip to Europe,..........:zzzz: as if!

[Patrick]

Yup, last year a cop in Rotovegas sold/gave confiscated meth to his mates.
Besides, saying you're not as bad as other cops is like me saying I'm law-abiding compared to some of the inveterate runners on this site. Probably true, but still not good enough.

And that cop is where now? Holidays at Club Med...

What he IS saying is that there is a few who ruin it all for the other 7,000 cops, just as there is a few that ruin it for the other priests/politicians/scout masters/labourers/car dealers (or motorbike dealers) or whatever else you want to put in here....

But even though there is always a few, their time is almost up....

[scumdog]

Bugger... beat me to it Spud...

Come on Knuckles... show me too...

: as if!

Easy, Spud is getting a bit of flack for stuff that HE didn't post....:nono: :innocent:

[spudchucka]

Bugger... beat me to it Spud...
Twice in one thread!

[Patrick]

Easy, Spud is getting a bit of flack for stuff that HE didn't post....:nono: :innocent:


Oops sorry Scummie, "you all look the same in your uniform"...apparently...:nya: Humble apologies!

[Lou Girardin]

were dobbed in by other colleagues who are now testifying against them which kinda negates your inference of wide spread corruption.

I inferred no such thing. Don't put words into my posts, it doesn't leave room to wind you up.

[Lou Girardin]

I never said i was not as bad than any other cops. I said our Police Force is the most uncorrupt in the world. It is. If you dont belive me ask the International Police Association.

The 'you're' was generic. Meaning NZ Police as a whole (not hole) If you start taking this personally you'll end up like Indoo.

[Patrick]

My Senior charged an asian when he tried to bribe him with $2000 to not take him back to central for an EBA.

Ive had it once by another fulla who i locked up for disorderly, i gave him a warning about bribing a police officer and told him he could be charged.

It just doesnt happen, even the most old school blue line cop would not tolerate bribing, its shameful and lowers a cop to the same level of the offender.

Were better than that.

The thing is the public doesnt know how really honest our Police Force is but it doesnt matter, the cop does. Thats why I can look people in the face and have no trouble locking up people for breaking the law.

Well said, that man...:drinkup: :drinkup: :drinkup:

But to quote you, "it just doesn't happen..." There is three that I know of now...there is probably others, but those three got nowhere. Convince the anti cop brigade of that though...:rolleyes: :argh: :bash:

[Indoo]

The 'you're' was generic. Meaning NZ Police as a whole (not hole) If you start taking this personally you'll end up like Indoo.

Lou your like Winja's sensei, I take your posts and you about as seriously as I do him (on Police related matters that is, sometimes you do talk some sense).

I just like to correct you....

[Indoo]

I think he just wishes you did...

Its more fun for him that way

[denill]

It's funny how threads meander away from the original. Like in this case. It is now just another pro-police/anti-police thread.

The <a href=http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=594140#post594140>Poll - Should police turn a blind eye to NO helmets in a funeral cortege?</A> currently reads 32 Yes - 35 No. Initially the 'Yes' votes headed the 'No' votes. So the original 'Police muscle in on funeral cortege' has resulted in fairly evenly divided opinions on the subject. And I guess you either like cops - or you don't.

So here's another poll. <a href=http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=28544>At the end of the day, even though some may have their faults, I really like cops?</A>

[knuckles]

"But to quote you, "it just doesn't happen..." There is three that I know of now ...there is probably others, but those three got nowhere."


phew! glad to know the countrys safe .


"Uncorrupt"??? WTF do you call abusing vulnerable young girls with a police batton? cartridge cases in the garden ring any bells?


"Cop bashing"? recon theres three types of plod: 1/3 joined up in the belief they can make a difference [fair but firm]...1/3 are there killing time waiting to retire/perf off.[attitude seems to depend on time of month/getting a leg over the night before]
and the last and most despised 1/3 would have to be the power trippers.[just another fuckn pig]


where do you fit in?

[Bonez]

fuck and the police wonder why the public dont want to help.
It may be news to you but the public do indeed help the police all the time. It's a select few who don't and usually they've got something to hide. :wait:

[EZAS]

When I was about 18-19 there was 2 cops holding of 2 of my LARGER samoan mates. I managed to contain my two mates from smashing these two punny little pigs. I thought I was doing them a favour.

Little Maori, holding back 2 LARGE Samoans from smahsing to little white cops = me getting arrested when the back-up came along (just for fucking standing there). Where were the cops that I had saved trying to hit on chicks coming out of a club ...

If I saw the same thing happen now, I'd make sure those cops would loose all there teeth! I'd never help any police do anything, they are no good to society as much as they would like to think they are.

[Patrick]

...1/3 are there killing time waiting to retire/perf off.[attitude seems to depend on time of month/getting a leg over the night before]
and the last and most despised 1/3 would have to be the power trippers.[just another fuckn pig]


where do you fit in?

I was a one, but now drifiting to a 2...but still a one really...but you would find the power trippers don't equate to a third anyhow, there is less of them than you think...

[Lou Girardin]

In any case corruption is not sexual abuse. Corruption is dishonesty offences such as theft, bribery etc and NZ Police is the least corrupt of any police force in the world.

There was most definitely corruption involved in the initial investigation of her complaint. Corruption doesn't necessarily involve money.

[scumdog]

All to show the NZ Police is Politically Correct and squeaky clean. As you can see its really done heaps for our public image and morale. We have got recruits lined up down the streets. Really.

Yep, why would anyone join? For the Mana? For the money?:bye:
Not too many selfish reasons left eh?

Where and how are you going to get a BETTER Police force????:wait:

[Lou Girardin]

How so? The inconsistencies that were evident in her testimony in Court paled in comparison to the inconsistencies the statement she had initially given to Police over 10 years ago.



Unfortunately this method has cost the New Zealand Police a lot of its best officers and has destroyed life’s of innocent men when offences have clearly not been intentional, the evidence given by witnesses contradicts, or the prosecution summary of facts wildly deviates from the factual occurrences.



Rickards supervisor actively dissuaded her from making a complaint. It was the subject of a PCA investigation and he's now facing charges, but the details are suppressed.
Likewise Shipton and Schollum being best Officers? Innocent men?
Do you not know what the suppressed evidence relating them was?

Anyhoo, welcome to our world, where we have to face bullshit charges laid by cops who don't know their legislation.

[denill]

Likewise Shipton and Schollum being best Officers? Innocent men?
Do you not know what the suppressed evidence relating them was?

I do - but I'm not allowed to say. :nono: :nono:

[Hitcher]

Anyhoo, welcome to our world, where we have to face bullshit charges laid by cops who don't know their legislation.
Some examples would be nice, thank you, Mr Girardin.

[terbang]

Like most countries we have a legal system, not a justice system, so there is no guarantee that trial outcomes will ever be correct. If we could develop a true justice system it would be a world first.

Looking to the legal “profession” as a possible root of the problem, by their own rules if a lawyer knows that their client is guilty they are still bound to use anything they can to “win” the case and get the best possible outcome for their guilty client. Justice.? - NO.

Did the jurors in the Louise Nicholas case receive all the relevant information required to make a fully informed finding, I think not.

Was this a fair case.?-NO

[Hitcher]

Did the jurors in the Louise Nicholas case receive all the relevant information required to make a fully informed finding, I think not.
Were you in Court to hear all of the evidence, the cross-examination and the judge's instructions to the jury? I think not.

[Finn]

Where and how are you going to get a BETTER Police force????:wait:

We could start with Budfuckers resignation...

[Grahameeboy]

We could start with Budfuckers resignation...

or may be if the public was more positive and less of the 'Pig' mentality the Police force may be encouraged and not discouraged, which in itself breeds lack of discernment by the police towards the public.....hang on I am taking a breath..........one man resigning is not the answer......we have to back the Police first and give them a chance cause that is what they need, support....

So there.....:bye:

[Finn]

or may be if the public was more positive and less of the 'Pig' mentality the Police force may be encouraged and not discouraged, which in itself breeds lack of discernment by the police towards the public.....hang on I am taking a breath..........one man resigning is not the answer......we have to back the Police first and give them a chance cause that is what they need, support....

So there.....:bye:

I was referring to Spudchuka. So there back, bitch.

I'll let the crew de-value the rest of your post.

[ManDownUnder]

When I was about 18-19 there was 2 cops holding of 2 of my LARGER samoan mates. I managed to contain my two mates from smashing these two punny little pigs. I thought I was doing them a favour.

Little Maori, holding back 2 LARGE Samoans from smahsing to little white cops = me getting arrested when the back-up came along (just for fucking standing there). Where were the cops that I had saved trying to hit on chicks coming out of a club ...

If I saw the same thing happen now, I'd make sure those cops would loose all there teeth! I'd never help any police do anything, they are no good to society as much as they would like to think they are.

Sounds like you got a raw deal, and still need time to get over it.

When you're ready, come join the rest of us in a reasonably civilised society - it's quite nice over here.
MDU

[Grahameeboy]

I was referring to Spudchuka. So there back, bitch.

Okay.....sorry.....................

I'll let the crew de-value the rest of your post.

Cool, no problem......I expected some abuse and I still posted it cause I see beyond........

..............................

[Grahameeboy]

Sounds like you got a raw deal, and still need time to get over it.

When you're ready, come join the rest of us in a reasonably civilised society - it's quite nice over here.
MDU

Good one MDU....................

[Lou Girardin]

Some examples would be nice, thank you, Mr Girardin.

A recent post, (I forget from who) about someone being charged sustained loss of traction up a gravel drive.
Jantar and a friend of mine pinged for speeds they weren't doing.
A cop attempting the same thing with me on the Harbour Bridge.
That'll do for now.

[Lou Girardin]

or may be if the public was more positive and less of the 'Pig' mentality the Police force may be encouraged and not discouraged, which in itself breeds lack of discernment by the police towards the public.....hang on I am taking a breath..........one man resigning is not the answer......we have to back the Police first and give them a chance cause that is what they need, support....

So there.....:bye:

So why has the public attitude changed? Especially since 1999.
They used to rate at the top of public esteem.
The solution lies with them. Not in your rose tinted view of how the public should be.

[Grahameeboy]

So why has the public attitude changed? Especially since 1999.
They used to rate at the top of public esteem.
The solution lies with them. Not in your rose tinted view of how the public should be.

Oh dear Lou........why do you always think that a person with a different approach has a 'rose tinted view'.............

[Grahameeboy]

A recent post, (I forget from who) about someone being charged sustained loss of traction up a gravel drive.
Jantar and a friend of mine pinged for speeds they weren't doing.
A cop attempting the same thing with me on the Harbour Bridge.
That'll do for now.

Yeah real serious problems......how do you sleep at night...??

[Ixion]

Well, the "sustained loss of traction" on private property getting up a steep metal drive, the guys ute was impounded.

Now, I don't know the details of the particular case. But, in many cases that could cost a guy his job. Bosses often get pretty pissed off if y'get the work vehicle impounded.

And even if the court throws the charge out , it won't get his job back.

Similar thing happened a few years ago, cops laid a bunch of speeding charges, people 'speeding" through roadworks up north. One guy lost his licence on the spot as as a direct result, his job. (Memory insists that his car was impounded too, but I don't think that can be right)

Then the cops had to admit that the speed limit they'd been enforcing didn't exist at night. All charges dropped, but the guy didn't get his job back.

Serious enough to make me restless at night.

[Grahameeboy]

Well, the "sustained loss of traction" on private property getting up a steep metal drive, the guys ute was impounded.

Now, I don't know the details of the particular case. But, in many cases that could cost a guy his job. Bosses often get pretty pissed off if y'get the work vehicle impounded.

And even if the court throws the charge out , it won't get his job back.

Similar thing happened a few years ago, cops laid a bunch of speeding charges, people 'speeding" through roadworks up north. One guy lost his licence on the spot as as a direct result, his job. (Memory insists that his car was impounded too, but I don't think that can be right)

Then the cops had to admit that the speed limit they'd been enforcing didn't exist at night. All charges dropped, but the guy didn't get his job back.

Serious enough to make me restless at night.

Fair enough.....just not on my list of 'lifes' priorities that is all......the world is not perfect.

[spudchucka]

I was referring to Spudchuka. So there back, bitch.

I'll let the crew de-value the rest of your post.
I'm going to stay for at least the next 20 years, just to annoy you.

[Grahameeboy]

I'm going to stay for at least the next 20 years, just to annoy you.

Nah don't give him the pleasure........I reckon Finny Boy should get more of a handle on himself and masterbate more....may help him.....he he....sorry I am in a wierd space today...............where are my pills

[Hitcher]

A recent post, (I forget from who) about someone being charged sustained loss of traction up a gravel drive.
Jantar and a friend of mine pinged for speeds they weren't doing.
A cop attempting the same thing with me on the Harbour Bridge.
That'll do for now.
There is a big difference between trivial or frivolous application of the law, and ignorance of it. Which was the claim made for which I sought examples.

[Lou Girardin]

Oh dear Lou........why do you always think that a person with a different approach has a 'rose tinted view'.............

Oh Dear Garhameeboy, stick to the issue.

[Lou Girardin]

There is a big difference between trivial or frivolous application of the law, and ignorance of it. Which was the claim made for which I sought examples.

OK, granted on the latter two examples. Not for the first.

How about Sniper being pinged for using a tinted visor then?

[Grahameeboy]

Oh Dear Garhameeboy, stick to the issue.

:chase: :hug: ........................

[Lou Girardin]

Similar thing happened a few years ago, cops laid a bunch of speeding charges, people 'speeding" through roadworks up north. One guy lost his licence on the spot as as a direct result, his job. (Memory insists that his car was impounded too, but I don't think that can be right)

Then the cops had to admit that the speed limit they'd been enforcing didn't exist at night. All charges dropped, but the guy didn't get his job back.

Serious enough to make me restless at night.

That was on SH1 at Waipu, the cops were enforcing a temp speed limit that was not legal. Several people had their licences plucked for 28 days.
We never did hear how those people were compensated.
But the cops are just ordinary people trying to do their jobs as well as possible - right G/Boy?

[spudchucka]

How about Sniper being pinged for using a tinted visor then?
The cop was a pom, they're born anal.

[Grahameeboy]

But the cops are just ordinary people trying to do their jobs as well as possible - right G/Boy?

Have you been taking those happy pills again?

In the main "Yes"...we do not live in a perfect world so why do you expect the Police to be perfect...............as you say they are just ordinary people but are expected to be extraordinary.......are you perfect??......

[Lou Girardin]

The cop was a pom, they're born anal.

What? They don't come out the same orifice as us?

[Grahameeboy]

What? They don't come out the same orifice as us?

I guess it is like the 'water going down the drain hole' being different in the Northern Hemisphere.............

[Lou Girardin]

[
In the main "Yes"...we do not live in a perfect world so why do you expect the Police to be perfect...............as you say they are just ordinary people but are expected to be extraordinary............

When they exercise such power over us, yes I do expect them to be perfect.
Or, at the very least, when in doubt don't write the ticket.

[Grahameeboy]

When they exercise such power over us, yes I do expect them to be perfect.
Or, at the very least, when in doubt don't write the ticket.

They do not have power Lou....you just have an issue with the Police.....if they have power it is because you have given them that perception because of your mind set towards them.....they are just doing their job and it cannot be easy because they do not really have power and are probably at odds sometimes because decisions are made by others and these decisions have a greater impact that they would otherwise. Now at this point you will say "well get another job", however, most of us have jobs which are not necessarily perfect but we make compromise because essentially we like our jobs until a much better one comes along....no point drifting in life.........

[Lou Girardin]

I didnt say they were the best Officers. Yes i do know what the suppressed information is, and no it wasnt his supervisor. .

Yes you did. And it was Rickards supervisor, he has the initials JD.

[Lou Girardin]

They do not have power Lou....you just have an issue with the Police......

Get your face out of the bible for a while and read some of the legislation covering Police powers. Then come back and argue the point.

[scumdog]

Get your face out of the bible for a while and read some of the legislation covering Police powers. Then come back and argue the point.

Police have powers? Time THAT was explained to some out there!!

[Grahameeboy]

Get your face out of the bible for a while and read some of the legislation covering Police powers. Then come back and argue the point.

To be honest Lou you just do not understand and I ain't gonna fuel you........you are quite capable of doing that yourself.

Enjoy your day.

[Grahameeboy]

Police have powers? Time THAT was explained to some out there!!

To clarify, I know they have powers but not in the way Lou argues....just wanted to explain a little.

See ya.

[Jantar]

....Jantar and a friend of mine pinged for speeds they weren't doing...

Your friend (The blenheimite) and I appear to have been ticketed by the same cop. At least it happened in the same rural policing area, and the same desription of the mufti car. I don't hold this action against the averge cop, but it is evidence that there are some cops out there who don't deserve respect. In my opinion 95% of cops are alright, and it is most likely that some of these are better than alright and will go out of their way to see that justice takes precedent over law.

The issue that I see is that we tend to hear more about the few cops who are power hungry, or who act without thinking, and we seldom hear about the ones who quietly go about doing a great job. The ones we hear about make the average Joe Public wary about all cops.

I firmly believe we need to go back to the good old days when policing and revenue gathering were two distinct jobs. We knew who we could trust and who we couldn't.

[terbang]

Were you in Court to hear all of the evidence, the cross-examination and the judge's instructions to the jury? I think not.

Were you..?

[Lou Girardin]

Police have powers? Time THAT was explained to some out there!!

You have the power to remain silent:nya:

[Hitcher]

Were you..?
No. But I wasn't the one whacking off (in the absence of any evidence) about miscarriage of justice, how corrupt the Police are and how Louise had been done wrong.

[Grahameeboy]

You have the power to remain silent:nya:

Oh Lou you left yourself wide open there.......God is never silent...just thought I would throw that your way......

You are Saul of the KB site....you will change....

Enjoy.....

[Grahameeboy]

No. But I wasn't the one whacking off (in the absence of any evidence) about miscarriage of justice, how corrupt the Police are and how Louise had been done wrong.

Do you mean Louise or Lou..........??

[HenryDorsetCase]

Hells Bells how did this get legs for 17 pages?

[Grahameeboy]

Hells Bells how did this get legs for 17 pages?

It's easy....you know that??

[Finn]

God is never silent...just thought I would throw that your way......


He's not real dummy and don't confuse God with the voices in your head. I borrowed the bible from the fiction section of the Auckland Library last week and read the bit about you. It's not looking good buddy.

[Grahameeboy]

He's not real dummy and don't confuse God with the voices in your head. I borrowed the bible from the fiction section of the Auckland Library last week and read the bit about you. It's not looking good buddy.

He is real to me..................just like the beer I have offered to buy you is real but guess you Pagan's are too scared to share a beer with a Christian or even Grahameeboy......if you have read the Bible you will know that Jesus ate and drunk with non-believers and he did not bite....:nono:

[Finn]

if you have read the Bible you will know that Jesus ate and drunk with non-believers and he did not bite....:nono:

But look where it got him. No such thing as a free lunch.

[scumdog]

But look where it got him. No such thing as a free lunch.


Yeah, everlasting life for him now (But getting there was a bit of a pain)

[Grahameeboy]

But look where it got him. No such thing as a free lunch.

It was all part of God's plan silly....he knew what would happen but let it happen for a reason...you know The Death and the Resurrection......and now he is back with Dad.......cool eh?

[Grahameeboy]

Yeah, everlasting life for him now (But getting there was a bit of a pain)

and for us........well except Finn I guess........free beer still on if you want though Finn

[Lou Girardin]

Oh Lou you left yourself wide open there.......God is never silent...just thought I would throw that your way......

You are Saul of the KB site....you will change....

Enjoy.....

Jesus Scumdog, have you knicked G/boy's log-in now?

[Lou Girardin]

Yeah, everlasting life for him now (But getting there was a bit of a pain)

Now you're getting a bit cross.

[Lou Girardin]

It was all part of God's plan silly....he knew what would happen but let it happen for a reason...you know The Death and the Resurrection......and now he is back with Dad.......cool eh?

I bet he looks down now and wishes he'd got on the piss with Judas and the boys instead.

[Grahameeboy]

I bet he looks down now and wishes he'd got on the piss with Judas and the boys instead.

I bet he doesn't...............:nya:

[Grahameeboy]

Now you're getting a bit cross.

Do I detect humour Lou.............I knew you would see...:wait:

[Grahameeboy]

Jesus Scumdog, have you knicked G/boy's log-in now?

You see God is good.....come in Lou....you are welcome.....:innocent:

[Lou Girardin]

Bloody hell, nothing but cops, christians and gay Porch drivers on here now.
I'm going on holiday again.:scooter:

[Finn]

Bloody hell, nothing but cops, christians and gay Porch drivers on here now.
I'm going on holiday again.:scooter:

It's Porsche Loulou and I'm not a homosexual. You were drunk and I was just experimenting.

[Grahameeboy]

Bloody hell, nothing but cops, christians and gay Porch drivers on here now.
I'm going on holiday again.:scooter:

A good cross section then....send a postcard eh?

[Grahameeboy]

It's Porsche Loulou and I'm not a homosexual. You were drunk and I was just experimenting.

Guess you proved Darwin wrong with Lou then.....what was it Natural Devolution or some'it:wait:

[Lou Girardin]

Guess you proved Darwin wrong with Lou then.....what was it Natural Devolution or some'it:wait:

Don't get excited G/boy (or jealous), he's fantasising again.
Get him to tell you about his crucifixion fantasy.
Or the one where he's a nun.

[Grahameeboy]

Don't get excited G/boy (or jealous), he's fantasising again.
Get him to tell you about his crucifixion fantasy.
Or the one where he's a nun.

Look I have told you about this new found sense of humour of yours......behave please....:nono:

[Hitcher]

Get him to tell you about his crucifixion fantasy.
I always have trouble hammering in the last nail...

[Grahameeboy]

I always have trouble hammering in the last nail...

try drilling a hole to get nail started..............

[Lou Girardin]

try drilling a hole to get nail started..............

I'll leave that to you.

[denill]

WTF, I had a thread <a href=http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=28544> Poll: I like/don't like cops? </A> kicked into 'Pointless Drivel" and we have this Thread hijacked by Grahameeboy with his Jesus shit!!!!!!:zzzz: :zzzz:
BTW the Poll has yielded a 50/50 result to date.

[spudchucka]

Bloody hell, nothing but cops, christians and gay Porch drivers on here now.
I'm going on holiday again.:scooter:
Didn't think you'd break that easily...... Pushover!:wait:

[Grahameeboy]

WTF, I had a thread <a href=http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=28544> Poll: I like/don't like cops? </A> kicked into 'Pointless Drivel" and we have this Thread hijacked by Grahameeboy with his Jesus shit!!!!!!:zzzz: :zzzz:
BTW the Poll has yielded a 50/50 result to date.

That's it blame the Jesus freak..................

Actually, if you go back through the post it was Lou telling me to get my head out of the Bible that got the ball running....before that I was just saying how I see things...no Bible talk.....so Lou just decided to do this thong and naturally I had to deal with him....:wait: