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View Full Version : Well, never had that happen before. Seems front suspension is an optional luxury



Ixion
22nd April 2006, 22:48
Took Poebe for a wee pootle today, just to blow the oil out of the zorsts. Comng back down Old North Rd, round a moderately sharpish corner and the ruddy corner moles threw up some honking great combination of bump and pothole right on my line (definately not there when I entered the corner - the moles burrow under the road and throw up bumps specifically designed to catch out motorcyclists) .

Anyway, Phoebe didn't like it at all. The front went crash-bang , the back went crash , and she leapt 3 feet in the air somersaulted twice and spun right round three times. Well, that's what it felt like anyway.

I didn't have time to take to much notice of the general effects, because of ONE effect in particular , namely the fact that once all the jumping around was complete, she came down about a foot from the centre line, and making a beeline across the road directly toward the SUV that had whizzed round the corner while all this was happening, going the opposite way. So I thought it prudent to devote my full attention to this rather interesting situation.

Having negotiated a mutally satisfactory modus vivendi (literally!) with the SUV (i.e., I twitching myself round (don't ask!) so I was heading vaguely away from him instead of straight at him, ,he whizzing on un-noticing) I tootled off down the hill . Murmuring a heartfelt thanks to Herne the Horny Humper .

But a mile or so later it occured to me that the road seemed to have become quite extraordinarily bumpy since the last time I rode over it.

Bumpy to the point that my teeth were getting sore!

Strange indeed. Oh well, I blame the heavy trucks , they rough up the road surface. Bastards.

But another mile or so, and I had to admit that the road could not be THAT bumpy. Something was wrong! And not only was it bumpy, but the bike was pogoing up and down on each bump.

Now earlier in the day , I had lost a footrest bolt, and then the footrest (disconcerting - went to bear down on the right peg and my foot went straight down). I went back and found the footpeg but not the bolt (yes, the Titan does vibrate a tad. Just a tad) . So, in the glorious tradition of Briddish twins, I scavenged a suitable bolt to replace it. The rear wheel adjuster bolt to be specific.

Ah, that would be the reason for the bumpiness . The rear wheel had gotten out of adjustment, because the wheel adjuster wasn't there. Which was causing the bumpiness. (Logic? Logic? Don't bother me with logic. Stands to reason - I swiped the chain adjuster, now the suspension is playing up. Obviously, one caused the other. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. After all, every mechanic knows that if you replace the radiator cap in a car, and a week later the gearbox packs up, it was your repair to the radiator cap that caused the gearbox failure. Cos one happened after the other. )

So, I stopped and checked rear wheel alignment, and chain tension, to no avail. Then even removed the footrest and restored the wheel adjuster to its rightful place. Which made no difference at all. Then after a stop to replace the footrest again, nipping up onto a footpath to do it, and riding back over the kerb, I noticed that the front end came down with a decided bang.

So, I looked closely at the front forks for the first time in this saga (No, of COURSE I didn't look at then earlier, what have they to do with the wheel adjuster that is causing the problem?). Strange, I don't appear to have any fork staunchions. Where've the shiney slidey bits gone ?

The forks were jammed, totally jammed , on absolutely full compression. Rigid. Rigid as a very rigid thing. (No, not Helen Clark. I said Rigid not Frigid).

Uh, um, well that might, maybe explain the bumpiness. Of course the wheel adjuster probably had something to do with it too, y'know. But, in the meantime, unjamming the forks seemed like a Good Idea.

Except that nothing that I could do at the roadside would move them. I banged, and thumped, and wiggled , and waggled. To no avail. Rigid they were and rigid they intended to remain.

Nothing for it, but to continue on home with no front suspension. So I did.

Now, the strange thing is, the bike was actually quite rideable. On the straight it was bumpy, teeth chattering bumpy. But that was a matter of comfort only.

Smoothly sealed corners were fine (even better than usual I thought). Bumpy corners, were of course, uh, bumpy. The bike danced around a bit, but was still completely controllable. Interesting guessing game where it would be pointing after each bump, but nothing worse than many a gravel road. I guess ultimate road holding would have been a bit down , but I didn't feel it necessary to reduce speed from the normal Old North Rd pace .

Left me wondering just how necessary all the trick suspension stuff on modern bikes really is.

Front suspension, pah, an effete luxury. And I already know that a rigid rear end works fine. Interesting , but perfectly rideable. Suspension, who needs it.

(Once home, half an hour with that indispensable toolkit item the BLOODY BIG HAMMER, judiciously applied, some WD40 and a liberal application of ObsceneImprecation, and the forks finally went "boing" and reported for duty)

Never had that happen before. Interesting, but.

(Perhaps it was Phoebe getting her revenge for my clumsiness earlier in the day. When I missed the gear change from 3rd to 4th pushing hard uphill. Which made the tacho shoot completely off the scale, maybe 11-12 000 rpm, on an engine redlined at 7000. Tough old girl she is, though, it caused no detriment. Robust things, two strokes)

Edbear
22nd April 2006, 22:59
Brilliantly written! Can't say I've had the pleasure of a similar experience! I'm only mildly confused, (I think my wife would say tha's my normal state!), I assume Pheobe is a Suzuki Titan 500? HAd a '73 T500 back in '76. Great bike!

justsomeguy
22nd April 2006, 22:59
Short version: Forks jammed - Ixion fixed them.

Moral: Ixion is a roadside mechanic God.

Rhino
22nd April 2006, 23:08
Hey Ixion, you have got to look after Pheobe. Those T500's are very special bikes. I've never riden a two stroke with such low down torque.

I have to admit that the l-o-n-g wheelbase made them not the quickest bike to turn into a corner, but they are lovely bikes.

Never had forks stay bottomed out like that on any of my 60's or 70's japanese bikes. On some of my old machines it would have probably improved the handling :) Nothing could have improved my mates 1972 Kwaka H1. It was shit in the handling and braking department. It was the blue tanked model with the drum brakes. Got two laps around Ruapuna and ran out of anchors. :(

All this talk of old bikes means I may just have to start colecting them and join the Japanes Vintage Motorcycle Club.

Mental Trousers
22nd April 2006, 23:19
It's easy enough to fix Ixion. Replace the adjuster and adjust to the correct setting, remove the radiator cap (old 2 smoke doesn't have one but you replaced the cap which broke the gearbox so take it back off of whatever it's on) then give the rear wheel a belt with your bloody big mallet on an angle of approximately 30 degrees downwards and the forks will automagically start working again.

Motu
22nd April 2006, 23:33
Hmmm,sometimes the obvious is not really obvious is it? At least not when it's staring you in the face.I'm suprised some total berk you absolutly hate didn't walk up and tell you your forks had seized....you need large doses of salt to apply to such wounds.

I've had forks inexplicably refuse to go up and down after I've had them apart and put them together again....The TLR200 now needs a washer added to wheel spacer when I put the axle through,makes it a more fiddly job.The forks are not bent,I can rotate the stantions to no effect,but they don't work without the washer now.Have you got steel lower legs or alloy? If they are steel they will have bushes,maybe a fork bush problem? Got sent to places it hasn't been before in the bump?

All the early big Suzuki 2 strokes were grunters,the TS400 pulled very well too...the TM400 didn't pull,it hit!

Bonez
22nd April 2006, 23:44
All this talk of old bikes means I may just have to start colecting them.
Carefull. It's addictive. I'm sure they have offspring while you're not watching :gob:

Ixion
22nd April 2006, 23:57
Hmmm,sometimes the obvious is not really obvious is it? At least not when it's staring you in the face.I'm suprised some total berk you absolutly hate didn't walk up and tell you your forks had seized....you need large doses of salt to apply to such wounds.

,,,Have you got steel lower legs or alloy? If they are steel they will have bushes,maybe a fork bush problem? Got sent to places it hasn't been before in the bump?

All the early big Suzuki 2 strokes were grunters,the TS400 pulled very well too...the TM400 didn't pull,it hit!

Well, it WAS obvious. Obviously the wheel adjuster.

Alloy legs. I suspect that the working surface of the staunchion is ground a fraction more than the clamped up bit, to give a good surface for the bush and seal. And the massive bang when it hit the bump forced the slider up beyond where it was intended to be, onto the slightly larger diameter surface . It would only need a fraction of a thou to bind .

The thing that really surprised me was how rideable to bike was. I'd ridden rigid rear end machines before but never a rigid front. And it was perfectly rideable, I'd have been happy to do any distance on it like that. You'd think having no front suspension would have more effect.

(The corner was signposted at 55kh, so I guess I hit the pothole or whatever it was around 90. It was a downhill corner, before the apex, so the forks would still have been loaded, which probably didn't help)

The 500's torque is good but nothing compared to the GT750.

cowpoos
23rd April 2006, 10:49
haha.....thats was a larf.....brillently writen....lol

Pixie
23rd April 2006, 11:24
So which corner on Old North Rd was that?
Can't say I've noticed any bike eating bumps lately.

Drew
23rd April 2006, 12:33
Briliant read. I used to have two Titans in me shed, learnt to ride on them in fact. Although I must admit to having put a GT front end in the old girl. The twin leading shoe, drum front end stopped quicker if it was set up right, but it would only do it twice before it over heated and got real slushy.
My advice for the front end issues is this, Drain the old fork oil, rinse and repeat, then put in some hevier grade oil. Reasoning is, you say the bike was ridable while rigid, probable because of the reduced fork rake, and a firm front end does actually apply more preasure to your front tyre, ergo more traction.
If you do want to make it handle better, the only thing for it is a swing arm brace, and slightly longer shocks on the rear.
If you want it to go faster, expansion chambers is the only thing you need. A quick test to see if your keen, is to whip the baffles out of your stock pipes, it's obnoxiously load, but you wont believe how much more top end you get, without loosing too much of that (uncharacteristic to a two stroke), down low balls they have.
I've most likely been telling you stuff you don't realy want to know, (I'm usually alone in my pursuit to improve on classic motorcycles), so thanks for the read, and happy cycling.

Ixion
23rd April 2006, 12:47
Thanks for that. Phoebe is actually a GT500B, Tessa is a "true" T500R.(Petal is a GT750M)

Phoebe has Koni shocks at rear, which are a smigin longer and have decent damping etc. I can't be bothered messing around with frame mods, though it is possible to replace the swing arm with one from a GS sommutoruvver. Which brings a disk rear also.I actually prefer the drum front brake, but then I don't use brakes much.

I (almost) always use heavier oil in front ends. To do anything serious about the front end would need at least heavier springs , and probably still not be sensational. I'm happy to accept it as what it is , a (30 year old) tourer. I just ride within its limits and enjoy the trip.

After noting that with the jammed forks smooth corners actually seemed better than normal, I've tried lifting the staunchions through the triple clamps a bit . Just as an experiment

I've tried removing the baffles on Tessa, does lift the top end, but you need to increase main jet size or risk a burned piston. Makes it a lot noiser (:love: ) and you do loose something in mid range . Fuel consumption gets even worse, too, a consideration on a tourer.

In their day they were regarded as being able to be extensively worked, the motor is basically the same as the TR500. Road going examples with some basic tuning and expansion chambers witha stinger used to put out over 70hp. Nowdays, better to put the time and money into a later bike.

'Tis still a sweet tourer, and well nigh indestructable.

Ixion
23rd April 2006, 13:33
Um, following a couple of comments (nice ones), to preserve my Nana reputation, I perhaps had best emphasise that the initial incident on the corner was not really a "close call" in any way, and I was never really in any danger. The corner incident itself I would have forgotten by the end of the ride , just another thread in life's rich tapestry, except for the interesting thing with the forks. Which, presumably happened at the time of the corner incident.

I had noted that the corner (a bit before the Peak Rd turnoff) was bumpy, as are many on that road. I did not notice any particular "badness" but I did ease off a bit , just in case. So it was probably more like 80kph entry than 90.

I don't think I'd call it a bike eating bump, either. A modern sprotsbike would probably not even have noticed it. Bear in mind we are talking a 30 year old tourer here, with a soft front end, and no great reputation for handling even by the standards of its day.

Being thrown off line by bumps is part of the biker's world. This admittedly was pretty severe, bad enough for the bike to start feeling seriously unstable. So I stood the bike up to stabilise it (I think - all this is in hindsight, at the time you don't actually think anything, it's all just instinct). Then noticed that I was now heading straight toward the SUV - "feck, better not tangle with him" , and pulled the bike back onto line. Just an extremely late apex, and called in some of the reserves. Do recall being relieved that the road was dry , and a wee prayer that the tyres hung on , and the foot peg touching down.

But never any danger, just the sort of "oops" that happens every so often. I still had something left in reserve.

Only took a few seconds, and I would have dismissed it as unworthy of mention if it had not been for the jammed forks. I'm guessing it was that which jammed them, mind you.

That was the interesting part of the post, the jammed forks, and the fact that the bike handled quite acceptably with a rigid front end.

Drew
23rd April 2006, 16:48
Quick dude, edit out the retraction! We expect all stories to be slightly exagerated when we read them, so we automatically allow for it contemplate the situation.
If you dont take it back, we'll all think your true speed was really 65 into the corner, you went over a bump the size of a pimple, and thought you might have felt it through the bars. Resulting in the forks not returning to thier normal thirty mill of sag and making it only to thirty five.:laugh: