Politics [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

The Stranger

27th April 2006, 12:11

Big Dave posted a thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=27750) asking about the key issues facing motorcyclists.
There were 128 replies and many issues raised.

It would appear that motorcyclists feel that there is certainly room for improvement in the way they are considered when it comes to many aspects of the law and road building etc etc.

Why then have we not had a better response to the Keep Motorbikes exempt from road tolls (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=28091) thread.

This is typical bloody apathy. You moan to about our lot but are too bloody lazy to even move the mouse to save yourselves. Don't worry leave it to someone else, I'll just kick back and moan.

There are about 45,000 motorcycles registered in NZ. We can be a decent force and get some recognition and change, but it wont happen if we all leave it to the next guy.

Thank you to Dave, Ixion, Oldrider and Trev (and anyone else I may have missed) for turning up at BRONZ.

Thank you those who have placed a submission to try and keep bikes exempt from tolls.

To the rest of you GET OFF YOUR ARSE. Even if you think the tolls don't concern you, show some solidarity. Make them hear us.

hXc

27th April 2006, 12:17

Blairos

27th April 2006, 12:21

Agreed CaN - I have completed my submission (first time I had ever done anything like this, and it was pretty painless thanks to those threads)

You have no reason to complain if this stuff goes through, and you didnt voice your case to the powers that be... At least those that have already will know we made our feelings felt about this..

Ixion

27th April 2006, 12:40

Personally, I don't see why us non-Aucklanders should submit our views. It's not our roads. And it's Aucklanders who got the roads up there so bad that they have more congestion.

Not my problem at all that your roads are bad. Sort it out yourself. And why the fuck should the rest of us be paying tax for your roads?! You don't pay for ours, we shouldn't be paying for yours.

Auckland needs to pull it's fucking head in to line and see things normally, like the rest of us. Damned if I'm EVER living in Auckland. I hate the place.

Stop whinging and let yourselves sort it out. It's Auckland's fault, Auckland's problem and Auckland can bloody well sort it out!

We do actually. Auckland still pays far more into the pot than it gets back. There'd be virtually NO sealed roads in the South Island if South Island roads had to be paid for from South Island taxes. Just not enough people.

As for why object to road pricing. Cos Auckland's just being used as a 'feeler" . If the politicians get away with it there, it'll spread.

It's nothing to do with the state of the roads, it's just an excuse to raise more revenue.

Also, on a more philosophical front, it is an example of political denigration of motorcycles, in general.

Auckland could of course sort its problem out simply by demanding that Auckland taxes be spent solely in Auckland. Sucks to be the rest of the country then, but.

hXc

27th April 2006, 12:45

We do actually. Auckland still pays far more into the pot than it gets back. There'd be virtually NO sealed roads in the South Island if South Island roads had to be paid for from South Island taxes. Just not enough people.

As for why object to road pricing. Cos Auckland's just being used as a 'feeler" . If the politicians get away with it there, it'll spread.

It's nothing to do with the state of the roads, it's just an excuse to raise more revenue.

Also, on a more philosophical front, it is an example of political denigration of motorcycles, in general.

Auckland could of course sort its problem out simply by demanding that Auckland taxes be spent solely in Auckland. Sucks to be the rest of the country then, but.
Well put it this way. If Napier was faced with the congestion issues of Auckland. I don't think the percentage of Aucklanders that would submit their views would be smaller than the percentage of Napier-ites submitting their views agaisnt Auckland's issues.

I'm just not going to be a person who will help other places in NZ when directly, they don't help me.

I'm not going to give into the government, I'm not going to give into the politically correct way that this country is heading for. As soon as I can, I'm heading off. There are better places than here as far as politics are concerned.

I just wish people would fucking open their eyes and stand up for themselves.

The Stranger

27th April 2006, 12:48

Thank you hXc.
I couldn't have asked for a better response.

There is always one, isn't there. Auckland has for many years paid way more tax and fuel levies than it ever recived. The rest of you would all be on gravel roads if it weren't for us. I look forward to you apology and a heart felt thank you.

This is exactly the sort of fuckwittedness that ensures we get no change.

I gave up travelling in Auckland traffic about 7 years ago. I work from home program and manage servers etc remotely. And quite frankly the tolls are likely to have a positive impact on our business as the guys on the road should be able to attend a site when necessary much quicker. I do commute at times when I choose to. I may however cut back on this recreational activity if they introduce tolls, though this will not upset me.

But, it is not about me, it is about bikers. As I said show some solidarity. If we unite we can get the powers that be to make change.

Or listen to hXc, his way may sit back, sit back and say, it's not my problem.

The Stranger

27th April 2006, 12:52

I'm not going to give into the government, I'm not going to give into the politically correct way that this country is heading for. As soon as I can, I'm heading off. There are better places than here as far as politics are concerned.

I just wish people would fucking open their eyes and stand up for themselves.

Man are you confused or what?
You are not going to give in, yet you are going to give up and get out.

And yes we are in complete agreement, I just wish people would fucking open their eyes and stand up for themselves.

Squeak the Rat

27th April 2006, 12:52

I'm just not going to be a person who will help other places in NZ when directly, they don't help me.

I'm flabbergasted at this comment. Don't help others unless they have helped you first.

Each to their own.

BTW - I placed a submission on the Tawa speed limit even though I've only passed through there once, because it was something that I disagreed with in principle. I guess one needs principles to apply this approach though.

sAsLEX

27th April 2006, 12:54

Personally, I don't see why us non-Aucklanders should submit our views. It's not our roads.

Bad ideas are like a virus, they spread :yes:

hXc

27th April 2006, 12:56

But, it is not about me, it is about bikers. As I said show some solidarity. If we unite we can get the powers that be to make change.

Or listen to hXc, his way may sit back, sit back and say, it's not my problem.
Firstly: It's not about all bikers. It's about Auckland's bikers.

Secondly: We will never get the powers that be to make a change. The fact is, they don't want bikers on the roads because they know we are superior. And because we add to the accident rate. When really, it's the cagers fault for us adding to the accident rate.

If they do make a change, it's a change for Auckland only. And I would have thought that adding toll booths or whatever they're going to do would just add to the congestion. Making traffic stop, give them some money, keep going etc etc. It's just gunna make more congestion.

If Auckland had listened to Mayor Robbie all those years ago, they may not have the congestion they have today. As I see it, Auckland alone got itself into this mess, so Auckland alone can get itself out of this mess.

hXc

27th April 2006, 13:02

I'm flabbergasted at this comment. Don't help others unless they have helped you first.

Each to their own.

BTW - I placed a submission on the Tawa speed limit even though I've only passed through there once, because it was something that I disagreed with in principle. I guess one needs principles to apply this approach though.

Well Auckland itself is a complete hole! No soul, no life, nothing! It's a concrete fucking city with nothing. They don't help me directly in any way and quite frankly, I couldn't give two shits if Aucklanders have to pay congestion charges.

I don't have to pay congestion charges: One) Because we don't have the traffic that Auckland does. Two) Because our roading system works and we use public transport.

Aucklanders are just too up themselves to pay a few bucks and take the bus. Or pay a few bucks and sit in a car with fellow workmates or people heading to practically the same place.

Well I didn't place a submission on Auckland's congestion because it didn't let me and because they don't help me in anyway, in fact they make things worse for me.

Ixion

27th April 2006, 13:04

No, it is about biking, not just tolls. SOme of the submissions actually support road pricing in concept, they object to the fact that bikes are not excluded. Arguing that bikes reduce congestion generally. Which should be an argument of interest to all motorcyclists.

When I was younger bikers were much more politically active and clued up. We DID on several occasions force the powers that be to make a change.

I remember attending an meeting when ACC wanted to put up levies. Still far far less than at present, and still much less than cars. But bikers objected to being discriminated against

And turned up to a protest meeting in sufficient numbers to fill the Auckland Town Hall (not a small building).

Was on TV , the works. ACC backed down.

Then in the 90's bikers got real apathetic. The whole concept of a biker community sticking together was lost, people were only interested in themselves. As hXc demonstrates.

Dunno if this is a reflection on biking itself, or just on young people.

We must all hang together, or 'tis certain we shall hang severally (Sorry, Ben)

hXc

27th April 2006, 13:08

........Above post........

Well why don't the bikers in Auckland protest then. A bit of writing won't change much, not where I come from. Put your anger against the tolls into physical practice and yell stuff, throw stuff, create an angry mob or whatever. An internet submission is just a questionnaire. A protest, is a way to make people think well maybe this isn't a good idea.

MSTRS

27th April 2006, 13:11

For what it's worth, I agree with what hXc is trying to say. Auckland has known about this growing problem for 40 years and their historical answer has always been "Add more roads/motorways".
Any fool can see that this can only ever encourage more cars etc onto the roads there, and now when the situation has arrived at a point of diminishing returns, the D'orklanders want the rest of us to pay (again) for yet more roading, or to pay to use existing roads (bridge) on our way through to otherplaces.
The world's major cities (at least in the West) recognised that more roads were not the answer years ago. Are D'orklanders so arrogant that they believe the 'rules' don't apply to them??
The only effective answer is to create a public transport system that meshes it's various parts, is convenient to use, and is cost effective for the users in terms of money & time spent using it.
And I also agree that not living in a particular city means I have no 'right' to have my say (on a poll/whatever) in the planning of that city's transport infrastructure.

hXc

27th April 2006, 13:12

Then in the 90's bikers got real apathetic. The whole concept of a biker community sticking together was lost, people were only interested in themselves. As hXc demonstrates.

Dunno if this is a reflection on biking itself, or just on young people.

Well who's fault is it that bikers got apathetic in the 90's? Not mine! Maybe the people who have been biking since before the 90's should re-inact some of the things bikers did back then to change that.

It's not that I'm only interested in myself. It's that I couldn't give 2 shits about Auckland because they got themselves into this mess with no help. Why don't they get themselves out of this mess with no help?

It may just be young people. But the reason the young people are like this is because the older people taught us. Again, not my fault that you older people screwed things up and made the younger generation a pack of selfish, dim-witted de-generates.

Hitcher

27th April 2006, 13:19

Make them hear us.
What, exactly, do you want "them" to hear?

Special treatment for Auckland motorcycle commuters may give such riders a hard on, but it doesn't help the overall problem of congestion and near total dependence of that city on private motor vehicles to move folk around.

From my observation, once Auckland motorcyclists succeeded in getting some dispensation, that would be the end of their interest in the bigger matter. The "I'm alright Jack. The rest of you can get fucked" attitude that some are quick to accuse non-Aucklanders of would then spread to another group who had been "bought off".

Either you're an Aucklander who has a genuine issue in solving the major infrastructural issues facing your community and your city, or you're not. I don't want to see motorcyclists unfairly discriminated against, but there are bigger issues at stake here.

MSTRS

27th April 2006, 13:19

Well who's fault is it that bikers got apathetic in the 90's? Not mine! Maybe the people who have been biking since before the 90's should re-inact some of the things bikers did back then to change that.

It's not that I'm only interested in myself. It's that I couldn't give 2 shits about Auckland because they got themselves into this mess with no help. Why don't they get themselves out of this mess with no help?

It may just be young people. But the reason the young people are like this is because the older people taught us. Again, not my fault that you older people screwed things up and made the younger generation a pack of selfish, dim-witted de-generates.
Onya for sticking to your belief. I think you are not completely right, but that is only cos you don't have the benefit of 20/30/40/50 + years on this planet to be able to see (perhaps) beyond what is directly in front of you. I'm proud to call you 'Son'. Stick it to them!!! And don't take no shit.

Qkkid

27th April 2006, 13:34

comon guys you all have points even you guys in napier but what you dont realise is all motorways east west south and north are getting linked and so they should we are not a third world city/country far from it and yes i live in the heart of the city so i should know and yes we do pay a hell of alot of roadtax petrol tax so we deserve great roads and yes auckland has funded some of your lovely roads all round the country we should be united so as bikies we can have great roads every where to ride on.It is now time for auckland to catch up with cities ie like New Plymouth Napier Wangarei and south island roads even Christchurch has nice arterial routes around there city

The Stranger

27th April 2006, 13:37

What, exactly, do you want "them" to hear?

Special treatment for Auckland motorcycle commuters may give such riders a hard on, but it doesn't help the overall problem of congestion and near total dependence of that city on private motor vehicles to move folk around.

From my observation, once Auckland motorcyclists succeeded in getting some dispensation, that would be the end of their interest in the bigger matter. The "I'm alright Jack. The rest of you can get fucked" attitude that some are quick to accuse non-Aucklanders of would then spread to another group who had been "bought off".

Either you're an Aucklander who has a genuine issue in solving the major infrastructural issues facing your community and your city, or you're not. I don't want to see motorcyclists unfairly discriminated against, but there are bigger issues at stake here.

Shit I had no idea how jealous and insecure the rest of the country was about Auckland. I always thought it was a bit of a joke. But seriously, you guys really need help.

Ok well the scheme is being mooted for both Wellington and Christchurch. I know little of the congestion in these cities, though have seen Wellington jambed severly the one time I was there. This information came out at the BRONZ national meeting in Dunedin on the weekend and just to be sure it came not from an Aucklander so it may be reliable.

Yes I am serious about Auckland's traffic, however I am more serious about supporting motorcycling.

Fuck, I thought, support motorcycling. I thought Join BRONZ, I thought give up my time and my holidays and WE can make a difference. Why bloody bother, I think my time would be better spent training to be a shrink and working with nut jobs in the provincial centres.

IT"S NOT ABOUT AUCKLAND, IT"S ABOUT MOTORCYCLES!!!

MSTRS

27th April 2006, 13:38

comon guys you all have points even you guys in napier but what you dont realise is all motorways east west south and north are getting linked and so they should we are not a third world city/country far from it and yes i live in the heart of the city so i should know and yes we do pay a hell of alot of roadtax petrol tax so we deserve great roads and yes auckland has funded some of your lovely roads all round the country we should be united so as bikies we can have great roads every where to ride on
Yes, you are right, thanks for that. But, I would take issue that motorways are great roads to ride on...:scooter:

Qkkid

27th April 2006, 13:41

:blip: to be honest i love the country back roads:nya:

MSTRS

27th April 2006, 13:42

IT"S NOT ABOUT AUCKLAND, IT"S ABOUT MOTORCYCLES!!!
Yes, but it is about Auckland motorcyclists.......if the rest of the country isn't riding Auckland's roads, why should we have an official say? Except to bleat on a forum like this

hXc

27th April 2006, 13:43

Shit I had no idea how jealous and insecure the rest of the country was about Auckland. I always thought it was a bit of a joke. But seriously, you guys really need help.

That is exactly the reason I don't like Aucklanders. They are so fucking far up their own arses they never see the light. The light that is the rest of the country and the rest of the world. Aucklanders are a bunch of fucking toss pots when it comes to that sort of stuff.

They think the rest of the country should pay for their roads because they bring everything into the country and most things leave Auckland via roads. And all this stuff of the News about Auckland's roads etc etc. WE DON'T FUCKING CARE! Sort it out yourself!

Bunch of selfish wankers with nothing better to do than to complain about things. And when they do get around to trying to do something about it, they still want the rest of the country involved.

MSTRS

27th April 2006, 13:43

:blip: to be honest i love the country back roads:nya:
Are there any left up your way:nya: back at ya:innocent:

Squeak the Rat

27th April 2006, 13:44

I am happy to debate the merits of the auckland road tolls, concessions for bikers etc. But arguing Anti-Auckland sentiments pervasive in the rest of the country is getting old. Three of the most prevalent voices for bikers rights on this site are Aucklanders. They don't seem to be showing the "I'm alright Jack. The rest of you can get fucked" attitude as suggested. The work Big Dave is doing with the poll is a good example - that is not an Auckland issue, but a NZ biking issue.

If you see fit to judge us individuals because of the city we live in then that's your right.

But, if you want to have a say in something that could be a precedent for other areas of the country, or if you agree/disagree in principle, or even if you want to help out fellow bikers then consider making a submission.

End of my input.
STR

Qkkid

27th April 2006, 13:46

Are there any left up your way:nya: back at ya:innocent:
shit yeahhhhhhhhh get your arse up here for may the 7th and we will show where the great roads are.back at ya :nya: :nya: :wait:

Phurrball

27th April 2006, 13:47

Firstly: It's not about all bikers. It's about Auckland's bikers.
(snip)

Well Auckland itself is a complete hole! No soul, no life, nothing! It's a concrete fucking city with nothing. They don't help me directly in any way and quite frankly, I couldn't give two shits if Aucklanders have to pay congestion charges.

I don't have to pay congestion charges: One) Because we don't have the traffic that Auckland does. Two) Because our roading system works and we use public transport.

Aucklanders are just too up themselves to pay a few bucks and take the bus. Or pay a few bucks and sit in a car with fellow workmates or people heading to practically the same place.

Well I didn't place a submission on Auckland's congestion because it didn't let me and because they don't help me in anyway, in fact they make things worse for me.

Are Aucklanders not bikers too? Just like you hXc. ALL biker gotta stick together.

I see plenty of full trains and buses up here in Auckers hXc, but I also see plenty of cars clogging the M/ways, and HEAPS of other bikers to wave to!(riding every assortment of eye candy!)

As for concrete jungle - maybe the CBD, but don't judge Auckers on Queen St alone. Are you refering to all of the cities in the greater Auckland area? I don't live in a concrete jungle - I live in a real jungle, with rainforest trees in my back yard in the Waitakere ranges, a couple of hundred metres from the Manukau harbour. It's beautiful, and I like it much more than a Dunedin boy ever thought he could.

Auckland is troubled in many ways - it would be a step or three closer to paradise if there was less urban sprawl and traffic (And a bit less farking rain!!!). I'd love to have been here a couple of decades ago to see this city then, but I wasn't around...

I used to think the way you do hXc, and I worked at a little independant BP with customers that ranted wildly about the blardy Aucklanders and their blardy roads the 'southerners' were allegedly paying for.

Then I engaged my brain and did the maths.

Others who have pointed this out already are quite right - Auckland gives more than it gets. This works in most funding situations where less population dense areas just cannot be self supporting.

We gotta function as a country, and like it or not, Auckland is an important part of our beloved NZ, and Auckland's roads are a problem for 1/4 - 1/3 of NZers. I figure that makes Auckland's roads a NZ problem.

(Just don't call me an Aucklander! I'm an Auckland resident OK! You can NEVER take the Dunedin out of this boy.)

Ixion

27th April 2006, 13:49

Well who's fault is it that bikers got apathetic in the 90's? Not mine! ..s.

Whose fault is it that bikers are still apathetic in the 2000s . Yours.

MSTRS

27th April 2006, 13:52

I used to think the way you do hXc, and I worked at a little independant BP with customers that ranted wildly about the blardy Aucklanders and their blardy roads the 'southerners' were allegedly paying for.

Then I engaged my brain and did the maths.

Others who have pointed this out already are quite right - Auckland gives more than it gets. This works in most funding situations where less population dense areas just cannot be self supporting.

We gotta function as a country, and like it or not, Auckland is an important part of our beloved NZ, and Auckland's roads are a problem for 1/4 - 1/3 of NZers. I figure that makes Auckland's roads a NZ problem.

(Just don't call me an Aucklander! I'm an Auckland resident OK! You can NEVER take the Dunedin out of this boy.)
Good points. But the fact remains that the rest of the country feels putdown by Aucklanders so obviously will not feel too keen to help then when asked.

The Stranger

27th April 2006, 13:53

That is exactly the reason I don't like Aucklanders. They are so fucking far up their own arses they never see the light. The light that is the rest of the country and the rest of the world. Aucklanders are a bunch of fucking toss pots when it comes to that sort of stuff.

They think the rest of the country should pay for their roads because they bring everything into the country and most things leave Auckland via roads. And all this stuff of the News about Auckland's roads etc etc. WE DON'T FUCKING CARE! Sort it out yourself!

Bunch of selfish wankers with nothing better to do than to complain about things. And when they do get around to trying to do something about it, they still want the rest of the country involved.

Fuck you got it bad man.
You don't work for the postal service do you?

hXc

27th April 2006, 13:54

We gotta function as a country, and like it or not, Auckland is an important part of our beloved NZ, and Auckland's roads are a problem for 1/4 - 1/3 of NZers. I figure that makes Auckland's roads a NZ problem.

A 1/4 - 1/3 of NZers. That's a minority and a bit!

You Aucklanders never get it at all. You may be the biggest city in NZ and one of the biggest cities (landwise) in the world but you are so far up your arse you don't understand.

And I will call you an Aucklander. You live in Auckland, and judging by your post, you chose to live there! That, by right, makes you an Aucklander.

As somebody who doesn't live in Auckland, has never lived in Auckland and never wants to, I don't have a right to submit my views on that site, nor does anyone else in the same situation as me. It's Auckland's problem so Aucklanders should sort it out!

hXc

27th April 2006, 13:55

Fuck you got it bad man.
You don't work for the postal service do you? Nah, wish I did though. They're a good band!

Phurrball

27th April 2006, 13:55

That is exactly the reason I don't like Aucklanders. They are so fucking far up their own arses they never see the light. The light that is the rest of the country and the rest of the world. Aucklanders are a bunch of fucking toss pots when it comes to that sort of stuff.

They think the rest of the country should pay for their roads because they bring everything into the country and most things leave Auckland via roads. And all this stuff of the News about Auckland's roads etc etc. WE DON'T FUCKING CARE! Sort it out yourself!

Bunch of selfish wankers with nothing better to do than to complain about things. And when they do get around to trying to do something about it, they still want the rest of the country involved.

and Res ipsa loquitur...you prove yourself to be any different to the alleged 'fucking toss pots' with this attitude how? Perhaps the distribution throughout the country is a little more equitable than you suggest.

Qkkid

27th April 2006, 13:56

:nono: Auckland is nearly 2 million peoplethats practiculary half of New Zealands population do the numbers people and lets think about it before we speak:wait: it truly does speak for itself :blip:

The Stranger

27th April 2006, 13:57

Good points. But the fact remains that the rest of the country feels putdown by Aucklanders so obviously will not feel too keen to help then when asked.

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt,

Get over it!!

yungatart

27th April 2006, 13:57

Whose fault is it that bikers are still apathetic in the 2000s . Yours.
I think the nine posts that hXc has made in this thread (so far), proves that he is anything but apathetic. He may not share your opinions/views or, indeed the majority's opinions/views, but he definitely has views and is prepared to share and defend them. More power to him, I say!

hXc

27th April 2006, 13:59

Auckland is troubled in many ways - it would be a step or three closer to paradise if there was less urban sprawl and traffic (And a bit less farking rain!!!).
Troubled, definately! A few steps away from paradise, definately not!

The traffic problem is Aucklands fault anyway. They build more roads, which will make more traffic because people think, another road, I'll get a car for the wife and she can go that way, it will be empty. The problem is that everyone thinks that way so more roads + more cars = more traffic
= more congestion
= more problems!

And the reason you get so much rain up there - You fucking deserve it!

Qkkid

27th April 2006, 13:59

And yes Auckland is sorting it out it will be nice when everything is finished its about 3years to completion all the way from hamilton up to Warkworth now thats a huge area

hXc

27th April 2006, 14:02

:nono: Auckland is nearly 2 million peoplethats practiculary half of New Zealands population do the numbers people and lets think about it before we speak:wait: it truly does speak for itself :blip:

Well if you think about it my head then...
It's only almost half of the population. The rest of the population lives somewhere else, which means that more people live throughout NZ than in Auckland. That means that the rest of NZ has more people.

Auckland then = less people so it should have no right to be all 'power hungry'.

Qkkid

27th April 2006, 14:03

Now that is not just Aucklanders benefiting its Hamilton its Wangarei its all up north all the way down hamilton way thats alot of area

Big Dave

27th April 2006, 14:04

Stop whinging and let yourselves sort it out. It's Auckland's fault, Auckland's problem and Auckland can bloody well sort it out!

Edit: You're sounding a bit like a xenophobic dickhead which i know you are not.

Phurrball

27th April 2006, 14:04

A 1/4 - 1/3 of NZers. That's a minority and a bit! Yep - under FPP probably enough of a minority to elect a government. How'd ya have liked that? The Auckland partym in gummint...possibly a worse nightmare for you than Labour eh? (p/t)

You Aucklanders never get it at all. You may be the biggest city in NZ and one of the biggest cities (landwise) in the world but you are so far up your arse you don't understand.

And I will call you an Aucklander. You live in Auckland, and judging by your post, you chose to live there! That, by right, makes you an Aucklander.

In immigration parlance, I am a resident, not a citizen.

I was born in the NI (Welly), but I received all of my culture and (essentialy) all of my education in the south.

I think that qualifies my distinction. I'm a Dunedinite and South Islander through and through.

Circumstances and the woman I love dragged me kicking and screaming to this city; I thought I'd hate it. I don't. My views that were similar to yours were wrong.

You're welcome to stay up here anytime for Auckland experience - you might be like me, and arrive a hater, and leave with at least a little affection for this place.

As somebody who doesn't live in Auckland, has never lived in Auckland and never wants to, I don't have a right to submit my views on that site, nor does anyone else in the same situation as me. It's Auckland's problem so Aucklanders should sort it out!

Big picture hXc - we all live in this country. If we all had the attitude that we should only care about our own back yards, then NZ would be in a sorry state.

Qkkid

27th April 2006, 14:05

:nono: You showing yourself up boy. It means the rest of the 2 million people are spread out over the rest of the country:wait:

MSTRS

27th April 2006, 14:06

Now that is not just Aucklanders benefiting its Hamilton its Wangarei its all up north all the way down hamilton way thats alot of area
Faark me! Have the Bombays disappeared? Used to be a natural barrier to protect the rest of the country:wait:

Ixion

27th April 2006, 14:06

I think the nine posts that hXc has made in this thread (so far), proves that he is anything but apathetic. He may not share your opinions/views or, indeed the majority's opinions/views, but he definitely has views and is prepared to share and defend them. More power to him, I say!

"It doesn't affect me personally , so I don't give a stuff" classes as apathy in my book.

F'instance - the 70kph restriction on Learners doesn't affect me personally. So why should I give a hoot? Let the cops ticket all the Learners exceeding 70kph, and riding without L plates. Will build up their quota and keep them busy . Doesn't affect me, it's their problem , let them deal with it. Right ?

hXc

27th April 2006, 14:07

You are not going to give in, yet you are going to give up and get out.
The government doesn't listen to us. Well that's democracy...Yeah right! Majority fucking rules my arse.

I'm leaving because I'm sick of the government. I'm sick of not being able to make a change. I'm sick of it all.

hXc

27th April 2006, 14:08

Whose fault is it that bikers are still apathetic in the 2000s . Yours.

How did it get that way in the 90's. You

hXc

27th April 2006, 14:11

:nono: You showing yourself up boy. It means the rest of the 2 million people are spread out over the rest of the country:wait:

Exactly, the rest of the country should rule it. Not Auckland!

Ixion

27th April 2006, 14:11

Nope, I was bitching away all through the 90s . And the 80s . And the 2000s. Just got a bit lonely in the 90s

Qkkid

27th April 2006, 14:13

How did it get that way in the 90's. You
Because of little shits like you who are Young dumb and need a wank because your full of cum because instead of dealing with issues you run away and hide and say "cant be bothered":wait:

Phurrball

27th April 2006, 14:13

The government doesn't listen to us. Well that's democracy...Yeah right! Majority fucking rules my arse.

I'm leaving because I'm sick of the government. I'm sick of not being able to make a change. I'm sick of it all.

Nyeh! You'll be back. NZ is still paradise. You'll learn that overseas with a little life experiemce.

Time for a nice cup of tea and a sit down - onya for sticking to your guns in the face of overwhelming rational argument - perhaps a teency concession that maybe Aucklanders aren't all bad might be in order? After all, an Aucklander set up this website you're using...

You remind me of myself 12 or so years ago.

The Stranger

27th April 2006, 14:14

Exactly, the rest of the country should rule it. Not Auckland!

They're too busy looking out for themselves to band together and make it happen.

yungatart

27th April 2006, 14:15

Because of little shits like you who are Young dumb and need a wank because your full of cum because instead of dealing with issues you run away and hide and say "cant be bothered":wait:
Touchy, touchy....

yungatart

27th April 2006, 14:17

hXc is just 15-it doesn't need a sledge hammer to deal with a carpet tack. Have some of you forgotten what it is like to be an adolescent?

Hitcher

27th April 2006, 14:21

IT"S NOT ABOUT AUCKLAND, IT"S ABOUT MOTORCYCLES!!!
The immediate issue isn't. Arguing that will win you few friends amongst policy analysts who will be looking for feedback relevant to the issue at hand -- Auckland's (not the rest of New Zealand's) traffic woes. Some puff piece about the economic and environmental contribution that can be unlocked by giving dispensations to motorcyclists who ride to work may probably be lost on them. By advocating exempting motorcycles, you're not offering them a solution. You're just another single-issue advocate -- like Susan from Herne Bay who doesn't like diesel fumes tainting her washing.

My earlier post was intended to help whoever was writing submissions, not to pick on Aucklanders at the expense of others.

Qkkid

27th April 2006, 14:24

hXc is just 15-it doesn't need a sledge hammer to deal with a carpet tack. Have some of you forgotten what it is like to be an adolescent?
I have done alot of travelling even the whole south island and i go down there 2-3 times a year and i think overall New Zealand is a wondertfull place to live like every country it has its issues its better we act now and sort the roads issues because we are a growing nation and there will come a day when its to late to do it so i say sort it now invest in all of New Zealands roading issues because its cheaper now than in another 30-40 years

Phurrball

27th April 2006, 14:29

I have done alot of travelling even the whole south island and i go down there 2-3 times a year and i think overall New Zealand is a wondertfull place to live like every country it has its issues its better we act now and sort the roads issues because we are a growing nation and there will come a day when its to late to do it so i say sort it now invest in all of New Zealands roading issues because its cheaper now than in another 30-40 years

Amen to NZ being paradise!

Aye, Auckland's issues could well foreshadow those of Wellington or Christchurch as they grow. Sorting it out here could well help WRT future development of roading strategies in other NZ cities.

The Stranger

27th April 2006, 14:32

The immediate issue isn't. Arguing that will win you few friends amongst policy analysts who will be looking for feedback relevant to the issue at hand -- Auckland's (not the rest of New Zealand's) traffic woes. Some puff piece about the economic and environmental contribution that can be unlocked by giving dispensations to motorcyclists who ride to work may probably be lost on them. By advocating exempting motorcycles, you're not offering them a solution. You're just another single-issue advocate -- like Susan from Herne Bay who doesn't like diesel fumes tainting her washing.

My earlier post was intended to help whoever was writing submissions, not to pick on Aucklanders at the expense of others.

Aye?
Ok, accepted I am not a politician, however hundreds of people lobby a position for their cause and make no bones about it. Many like the Alcohol lobby have serious money, and well I have no idea how the drinking age came to drop to 18 and how, now that we have serious problems with the drinking habits of the young they can't find a way to fix this. but we don't have the money to throw at it. The fact remains that these lobbies still manage to be efective.
Look at the NRA in America. What politician will oppose them? Any idea what they stand for? and by christ if they swing in behind Susan in Herne Bay people will listen.

And beside in London Motorcycles are exempt from the charge. Motorcycle usage has increased 3 fold as a result and congestion has decreased, so maybe we offering a solution to their problems.

Hitcher

27th April 2006, 14:38

And beside in London Motorcycles are exempt from the charge. Motorcycle usage has increased 3 fold as a result and congestion has decreased, so maybe we offering a solution to their problems.
Use that example and any other relevant ones you can find. But also anticipate proactively criticisms that may get thrown back.

Qkkid

27th April 2006, 14:40

There is nothing wrong with adolescence and innocense but think before you speak this thread was about our roads as motorcyclist and he does not give a shit thats the attitude of majority of young people today and thats why our society is in so much trouble. We modicodle issues and throw them in the to hard basket instead of dealing with them.

James Deuce

27th April 2006, 15:05

Big picture hXc - we all live in this country. If we all had the attitude that we should only care about our own back yards, then NZ would be in a sorry state.

No it wouldn't, it would improve drastically. The major problem is that it only look after our own backyards. If we extended our personal care zones to include our immediate neighbours we might redevelop a community based mindset.

Qkkid

27th April 2006, 15:07

thank you jim2 now thats intelligence for ya hxc :bye: he has run away to hide

The Stranger

27th April 2006, 15:09

Well who's fault is it that bikers got apathetic in the 90's? Not mine! Maybe the people who have been biking since before the 90's should re-inact some of the things bikers did back then to change that.

It's not that I'm only interested in myself. It's that I couldn't give 2 shits about Auckland because they got themselves into this mess with no help. Why don't they get themselves out of this mess with no help?

It may just be young people. But the reason the young people are like this is because the older people taught us. Again, not my fault that you older people screwed things up and made the younger generation a pack of selfish, dim-witted de-generates.

We have one huge advantage over the bikers in the 90's.
The internet. There are about 45,000 registered motorcycles (a little less if recall correctly) there are over 4,500 members on this site.

How else could you reach that percentage of people back then? And in what time frame?

The point is we can as never before make a difference. But as Dave says, it requires EVERYONE to do a little bit to make a big difference.

Big Dave

27th April 2006, 15:13

No it wouldn't, it would improve drastically. The major problem is that it only look after our own backyards. If we extended our personal care zones to include our immediate neighbours we might redevelop a community based mindset.

An area where everyone, nationally, contributes to the same community coffer is the case in point.

BuFfY

27th April 2006, 15:33

I know what it is like to be a youngin' in this country who hates auckland... That is how I was bought up!! I have lived in Christchurch and Wellington (and Gore) And when I was 14 my mum told me we were moving to Auckland. I was soooo angry!
I live in Whangaparaoa... which is a fair distance from Auckland itself... and I don't consider myself an Aucklander... when asked where I am from I have no idea what to say!
My point is... people who haven't lived here and who have had negative ideas about Auckland borred into their heads their whole lives can not be held responsible for having these views... you know what you know!
For me... I love sitting in the traffic (in my car). Living NEAR Auckland means that I now expect to travel atleast 30 mins if I want to get anywhere and I am fine with that!
Getting all angry at each other and attacking each other is not going to solve this problem! The energy would be much better off being used to do something proactive... even if it isn't related to this thread!!

Phurrball

27th April 2006, 15:35

No it wouldn't, it would improve drastically. The major problem is that it only look after our own backyards. If we extended our personal care zones to include our immediate neighbours we might redevelop a community based mindset.

I agree wholeheartedly Jim2 - I didn't put that quite as well as I could have - but one shouldn't do that to the exclusion of everyone else's communities - a coordinated approach is helpful. I'm lucky that I live in a wee valley where such a sense of community does exist - and Shock! Horror! - it's within the greater Auckland area no less!

The Stranger

27th April 2006, 16:02

No it wouldn't, it would improve drastically. The major problem is that it only look after our own backyards. If we extended our personal care zones to include our immediate neighbours we might redevelop a community based mindset.

Ever see the movie "A beautiful Mind" staring Russell Crowe?

Adam Smith needs revision . . . If we all go after the blonde we block each
other. Not a single one of us is going to get her. So then we go for her friends.
They will all give us the cold shoulder because nobody likes to be second
choice. What if no one goes for the blonde and we don’t insult the other girls?
That’s the only way we win. That’s the only way we all get laid . . .
‘Adam Smith said that the best result comes from everyone in the group doing
what’s best for himself. Incomplete . . . The best result would come from
everyone in the group doing what’s best for himself and the group . . .Governing
dynamics, gentlemen, governing dynamics . . . Adam Smith was wrong.’

Ixion

27th April 2006, 16:07

Yep. The underlying fault of capitalism. Cooperation beats competition on the societal level.

The_Dover

27th April 2006, 16:14

Fuck that.

The blonde is mine.

ManDownUnder

27th April 2006, 16:15

That’s the only way we win. That’s the only way we all get laid . . .

Except the blonde... or is she enjoying the "invisible hand"??

The Stranger

27th April 2006, 16:18

Yep. The underlying fault of capitalism. Cooperation beats competition on the societal level.

Yeah well the movie was actually incorrect, it wasn't the best outcome.

The best outcome would have been for the others to agree and nash to wait a minute and hit on the blonde, so everyone gets laid but one has a bigger smile.

Up with capitalism.

MSTRS

27th April 2006, 16:44

Jantar

27th April 2006, 21:22

I was born in the NI (Welly), but I received all of my culture and (essentialy) all of my education in the south.

I think that qualifies my distinction. I'm a Dunedinite and South Islander through and through.

You may claim to be a southerner, but born in Wellington, choosing to live in Auckland, says otherwise.

Jantar

27th April 2006, 21:43

The Stranger

27th April 2006, 22:42

I was born in Otago, and although I lived in the Waikato for many years I am now back in Otago. I made a submission, not because I am overly concerned with problems that are confined to Auckland, but because some of the issues do involve the whole country.

HXC and the other Napier posters on this thread, are quite correct. Most people in this country are fed up with all the attention that Auckland receives. Aucklanders should stop moaning about how they pay much more that they receive, because the rest of the country is in exactly the same boat. Only a fraction of the money that is extracted from us for "Roading" actually goes back into roads, and even then it is only the nationaly important roads that our road funding is spent on. The great majority of roading is funded by local councils and rate payers, not taxpayers or fuel users.

However lets put all those red herring issues to oine side and look at the main point. Auckland is congested. Wellington and Christchurch are heading that way. If these charges are applied in central Auckland thyen it won't be long before the other main centers start charging as well.

The part of this that affects us all is that they are proposing that this charge will apply to State Highway 1. Christchurch has a bypass, Wellington and Auckland do not. If a motorcyclist from Dunedin wishes to travel the length of the country, he could end up paying this congestion charge to pass through, even if he has no wish to visit the city imposing the charge.

HXC, I'd ask you this: Are you prepared to pay $20 extra for a return trip from Napier to the Bay of Islands because of Auckland's congestion?

Auckland submitters, I'd ask you this: Are you prepared to ask the government to remove the two Auckland surcharge's that the rest of the country have to pay to subsidise your roads and your petrol pipeline?

Never in all my days have I seen such a load of utter bull shit.

Who gives a flying f*&k where the hell you are from? Either you care to support motorcyclists or bloody not.

So you don't get enough attention, don't winge about it, go talk to your mummy and daddy, it is thier fault you didn't get enough attention.
Where has any Aucklander moaned about paying more for your bloody roads? The moaning is always from small minded whiners down south. That argument is used as a rebuttal.

What bloody difference is a congestion charge going to make to a trip from Napier to the BOI? Fuck all, $6.00 a day, and only if you would be stupid enough to try and pass through Auckland during the morning peak, which would cost you $6.00 in additional fuel for idling anyway.

So off you go again about subsidising Auckland roads. Again another bitter twisted southerner complaining about Auckland getting "more than its fair share" when as per my previous rebuttal we already pay more. Note that is not a moan, it is a reply to your load of tripe.

Motu

27th April 2006, 22:46

When I was younger bikers were much more politically active and clued up. We DID on several occasions force the powers that be to make a change.

I remember attending an meeting when ACC wanted to put up levies. Still far far less than at present, and still much less than cars. But bikers objected to being discriminated against

And turned up to a protest meeting in sufficient numbers to fill the Auckland Town Hall (not a small building).

Was on TV , the works. ACC backed down.

Ah,those were the days! I was there,but not on a bike - we came in a car full of leaflets and ran up and down Queen St handing them out.It felt soooo good being part of something like that,all us bikers,didn't matter what we rode,what clothes we wore,we were all together,all united and of one cause.

I don't think they are capable of it,and this thread proving it to us....

Big Dave

28th April 2006, 00:50

Ahhhh - beats watchin television.

Karma

28th April 2006, 02:41

Well it occurs to me that there are three options here (and in this I'm referring to those that give a shit, so all you haters can just ignore this post)...

Option 1 - Ignore the murmers

Sit back, do nothing, then start paying extra when they bring the tolls in

Option 2 - Lobby for special treatment for bikes

I'm sure this would be pretty easy using Greater London as a prime example, congesion (and accidents!) have decreased dramatically since it's implementation. And it wouldn't take much to put all this into some kinda dossier and submit it to the proper authorities.

Option 3 - Lobby against the entire scheme

Now here's where it gets interesting. No matter how much you may dislike cagers, isn't the enemy of my enemy my friend?
There are a shedload more cars in Auckland and the surrounding areas than there are bikes, and involving all the car clubs we can get hold of and generating one massive movement will be a hell of a lot more visable than just a bike movement. I'd imagine groups like the AA and such are probably looking at things like this already.

So... are you interested in just bikes not having to pay, or getting rid of the whole crackpot scheme altogether?

SixPackBack

28th April 2006, 07:15

Red Necks are alive and well in N.Z I see. What a load of unmitigated tripe spoken in this thread. To the red neck family in Napier......A Jaffa ride is currently being organised to smear human excrement over that stupid fucken mermaid you hold so dear to your hearts.

Rosie

28th April 2006, 08:59

**goes into cupboard, has a bit of a look around and pulls out a tin. Reads label "Watties finest worms. Tender and sweet tasting" Puts index finger under little opening-tab-thing and starts to pull**

I don't think it matters whether or not you like Auckland, the fact is that the lifestyle/traffic planning/etc factors that are causing the congestion problems in Auckland don't all magically stop at the Bombay hills.

We live in a society where people are encouraged to use their cars for almost all their transport. Maybe other cities can get away with this without having the traffic problems that Auckland does, but it doesn't mean that we are moving in the right direction.

The ARC has realised that something needs to be done, but I don't know that charging motorcycles on the roads is the right way to go about it. Even if they charge vehicles for driving on certain roads at certain times, what else are people going to do? Ride their pushbike down scary congested roads that don't have cycle lanes? Walk along roads that don't have proper footpaths, and have traffic lights where no-one thought to put in pedestrian crossings? (Rotorua has several of these and they seriously piss me off)

If I want to buy a bottle of milk, I can either go to the petrol station, or to the supermarket. I get strange looks when I ride my motorbike to the supermarket, because the supermarket is somewhere you go by car right? Even if you only need a couple of things. The other day I was walking back to my bike, and in front of me a little girl said to he mum "look, why would someone take a motorbike to the supermarket?"

I'm determined to use my car as little as possible, but there seem to be little, subtle things that get in your way, and make things a bit more difficult for you.

So, you've got this general trend where our cities are becoming more car-centred, making life a bit difficult for non-cars, encouraging people to use their cars more than they might do previously. But then, too many people are using their cars, so people need to be penalised to encourage them to use their cars less. And motorcycles have somehow been caught up in the whole ill-conceived thing.

The whole thing is a bit of a mess, and isn't likely to solve anything unless we address the factors that make people feel that driving their car everywhere is the only option they have.

Were a couple of interesting interviews on National Radio this morning. No mention of Motorbikes though.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/nr/programmes/morningreport

MSTRS

28th April 2006, 09:22

Never in all my days have I seen such a load of utter bull shit.

Who gives a flying f*&k where the hell you are from? Either you care to support motorcyclists or bloody not.

So you don't get enough attention, don't winge about it, go talk to your mummy and daddy, it is thier fault you didn't get enough attention.
Where has any Aucklander moaned about paying more for your bloody roads? The moaning is always from small minded whiners down south. That argument is used as a rebuttal.

What bloody difference is a congestion charge going to make to a trip from Napier to the BOI? Fuck all, $6.00 a day, and only if you would be stupid enough to try and pass through Auckland during the morning peak, which would cost you $6.00 in additional fuel for idling anyway.

So off you go again about subsidising Auckland roads. Again another bitter twisted southerner complaining about Auckland getting "more than its fair share" when as per my previous rebuttal we already pay more. Note that is not a moan, it is a reply to your load of tripe.
I wouldn't go upsetting Southerners - most of your electricity comes from there. The defensive bleating by some Aucklanders about what that city does for the rest of the country is no better/worse than the same from 'us' about what Auckland takes from this country.

Qkkid

28th April 2006, 09:35

I wouldn't go upsetting Southerners - most of your electricity comes from there. The defensive bleating by some Aucklanders about what that city does for the rest of the country is no better/worse than the same from 'us' about what Auckland takes from this country.
Nice bike dude:nya: Do you ride it,:wait: or do you and hxc and Yungatart only ride around your own small town its a pity you dont get your arse up here for the 7th northern ride you guys might learn something about the roads further north of your town.:yes:

Ixion

28th April 2006, 09:35

,,,. I'd imagine groups like the AA and such are probably looking at things like this already.

,,,?

The AA have registered their opposition. One of the few times those antiquated fossils have done something I approve of. I may take them off the list for a meeting with Mr Brick Wall come the revolution.

MSTRS

28th April 2006, 09:41

Nice bike dude:nya: Do you ride it,:wait: or do you and hxc and Yungatart only ride around your own small town its a pity you dont get your arse up here for the 7th northern ride you guys might learn something about the roads further north of your town.:yes:
Thanks for the invite, but we are not done exploring our backyard yet....less traffic eh?:nya:

scumdog

28th April 2006, 09:53

It may just be young people. But the reason the young people are like this is because the older people taught us. Again, not my fault that you older people screwed things up and made the younger generation a pack of selfish, dim-witted de-generates.

Sure, do the modern thing - dispense with personal responsibilty.

For what it's worth a lot of younger ones are quite capable of screwing things up themselves because they want to do what THEY want to do and 'stuff you oldies and your rules and laws...':yes:

They'll learn eventually - and 'fix' all the 'screw-up' made by the older people.
Yeah right, like THATS going to happen.

Me, me, me is the new battle-cry.:yes:

It'll be YOUR fault if you DON'T fix these 'screw-ups':wait:

In the meantime get with the programme and unite for what is the common 'best'.

MSTRS

28th April 2006, 09:58

Sure, do the modern thing - dispense with personal responsibilty.

For what it's worth a lot of younger ones are quite capable of screwing things up themselves because they want to do what THEY want to do and 'stuff you oldies and your rules and laws...':yes:

They'll learn eventually - and 'fix' all the 'screw-up' made by the older people.
Yeah right, like THATS going to happen.

Me, me, me is the new battle-cry.:yes:

It'll be YOUR fault if you DON'T fix these 'screw-ups':wait:

In the meantime get with the programme and unite for what is the common 'best'.
Now be fair. The only thing different from generations past is that they start the 'attitude' younger these days. So maybe when 'they' are old enough to be able to 'fix the screw-ups', they will still be younger than in the past. Meaning they will have more time to 'fix' the problems started by their forefathers....

Qkkid

28th April 2006, 10:05

It may just be young people. But the reason the young people are like this is because the older people taught us. Again, not my fault that you older people screwed things up and made the younger generation a pack of selfish, dim-witted de-generates.
Maybe if you listened to your parents a bit more you might not have the attitude you have.Just think about that statement hxc.You are old enough to take responsibility for yourself and your actions/attitudes. Get out there work hard if not get a good education ride your bike and not just in Napier ,outside your own little world.Think before you speak, im sure your parents dont like alot of your attitudes either i wonder how much red bling they give you hxc or do they only bling others?, i guess i will find out in a few posts :yes:

SixPackBack

28th April 2006, 10:08

We can assume with total confidence HXC gets his poor attitude from his folk's:nono:

Qkkid

28th April 2006, 10:12

We can assume with total confidence HXC gets his poor attitude from his folk's:nono:
I guess attitudes do start at home good and bad it has alot to do with how they bring you up. I agree with you sixpack
(it does makes you wonder)

scumdog

28th April 2006, 10:13

We can assume with total confidence HXC gets his poor attitude from his folk's:nono:

But I'm sure he will fix the screw-ups they created.....:wait:

MSTRS

28th April 2006, 10:21

We can assume with total confidence HXC gets his poor attitude from his folk's:nono:
You would have to be the ONLY person who, when he 'assumes', would make an 'ASS' out of YOU and YOU

SixPackBack

28th April 2006, 10:23

Sounds like a yes to me!:yes:

Qkkid

28th April 2006, 10:27

The Stranger

28th April 2006, 10:35

Meaning they will have more time to 'fix' the problems started by their forefathers....

We see this a lot. You refer to forefathers and Aucklanders as a group of people as if they have control over the things that need fixing.

How do I as a forefather and an Aucklander for that matter "fix" our problems?

We live in a democracy, you get to vote every so often. Often as not the bunch of candidates are career politicians who's only concern is re-election and will twist and turn, prostitute themselves to any vote buying idea and lie through their teeth, say one thing do another and be completely devoid of any morals.

There should be a maximum of 2 terms in parliment so as to stop career politicians, the root of all evil.

They have become so distrusted that now people disregard things like honesty and integrity when voting. Things like Winston Peters abuse of privelige, Jim Anderton introducing the party hopping law then party hopping and not honouring the intent of his law. You have politicians with open disdain for the law (thinking drink driving and dope for a start) sitting in parliment passing laws which they expect us to abide by.

It has got to the point that the population accept and in fact reward this type of behaviour by returning the like of Jim Anderton to power.

Which decent honest citizen would actually want to sit in parliment? None would make it close, the ones that do are usually punised at the polls. Unfortunately, like procreation, IQ is not a requirement for voters.

So how do I as a forefather, or indeed hXc "fix" the problems created in the world? What steps do Aucklanders take to correct the traffic situation?

Robbie was right, but what good did it do him? He never had the ability to sort it out, he was always blocked. You have the poor misguided greenies saying ride a bus or ride a train that will fix the problem, yeah right. But enough misguided souls vote them in and screw it up.

Now this problem is nationwide. You who say it is the fault of Aucklanders are wrong. The problem exists every where, your neck of the woods is just a bit more population away from the same issues. Simply because the problem hasn't presented yet does not mean you got it right or something, you are just a bit slower is all.

So how does one "fix" the problems?

MSTRS

28th April 2006, 10:48

We see this a lot. You refer to forefathers and Aucklanders as a group of people as if they have control over the things that need fixing.

How do I as a forefather and an Aucklander for that matter "fix" our problems?

So how does one "fix" the problems?
Mutual hand-wringing all round. This thread is ample illustration that no-one knows how. All suggestions have some merit, but isn't it our nature to decry anything that doesn't fit our own personal 'reasoning'? You are right about other cities just lacking the population to have the same problems of Auckland (yet). Any answer must include what is practical AND convenient for most ('all' is unrealistic). The non-Aucklanders rightly point out that it isn't their problem, just as Aucklanders rightly point out they are entitled to their share of funding for roads etc. The fact remains that - more roads = more cars = postponement of bullet-biting. I'm no Greenie, but I sense that an integrated public transport system is the only long-term practical solution.
I have to say that local government is no different to national government in that no country has the right to dictate another countries internal policies, and Wgtn (say) has no right to tell Auckland how to run things. That is why I won't put in a submission on Auckland's proposed charges.

scumdog

28th April 2006, 10:53

Qkkid

28th April 2006, 10:53

Mutual hand-wringing all round. This thread is ample illustration that no-one knows how. All suggestions have some merit, but isn't it our nature to decry anything that doesn't fit our own personal 'reasoning'? You are right about other cities just lacking the population to have the same problems of Auckland (yet). Any answer must include what is practical AND convenient for most ('all' is unrealistic)
Too be fair i am just glad that the roading issues are being sorted it has been a huge task for auckland because its so spread out and the city was built before road planning was really thought of, hopefully now we have a better bus service/bus lanes on motorways/main roads things are starting to change, change has to start somewhere

Hitcher

28th April 2006, 10:56

So how does one "fix" the problems?
In my experience, a problem can't be fixed until everybody first accepts and agrees that there is a problem. "Problem definition" is a mission critical starting point.

Congestion?
I don't own a car. It's not my problem.
I don't work in the city. It's not my problem.
I don't live in Auckland. It's not my problem.
The "gummint" ("They") will fix it. It's not my problem.

Or, just as ridiculously:

"My world view is the right one and adopting it will sort this problem."

Also, from my experience, complex issues can't be solved by applying "point" solutions. All of the options canvassed in the ARES documents are point solutions -- roading solutions to what is being sold as a roading problem.

Auckland has many infrastructure issues to deal with. Roading is but one. But all of the issues are inevitably intertwined and need to be considered together. I guess solving these problems, like running a marathon, starts with a single step. But I see no broader context or vision that allows this to make sense.

As a biker I acknowledge and accept The Truth that motorcycles are always the answer. But in this case, what's the question?

Karma

28th April 2006, 11:48

How about we ignore all the shit about whos problem it is, and whether anyone else is going to lobby for aucklanders or not.

The real reason this stuff gets passed is because, and this is shown fantastically in this thread, all we (bikers in general) seem to do is bicker amongst ourselves without actually doing much.

I propose a demonstration.

Muster as many bikes as possible, and get them onto Queen Street... go slows? Could get some fliers and that made up to hand out and illustrate the problem?

Less talk, more action!

Ixion

28th April 2006, 12:50

All this contention misses the point!

I can see why non-Aucklanders would not wish to make a submission about the actual road pricing proposal. If a scheme were mooted for Wellington, I would probably not comment on the scheme itself. I do not know Wellington, its roads, topology or problems. Any comment I made might be totally misinformed.

BUT- there is a broader , more biker-relevant point. Which ALL bikers should make a submission on

Here we have politicians putting together a very major proposal, which presumably they spent a lot of time on, and which was approved at Cabinet level. And in it the deliberately fail to give motorcycles credit for something that motorcycles do well. They briefly consider motorcycles, in about 3 or 4 words, then , in effect , say "Stuff them, we don't give a damn about motorcycles. They can like it or lump it" THAT is what all bikers should complain about - the blatant disrespect of our chosen mode of transport.

So, by all means say "I don't know stuff all about Auckland's congestion problems, and I don't care. I don't care about the road pricing scheme, and even think it's a good idea. But, ANY road pricing scheme ANYWHERE should exempt motorcyles or have a reduced rate for them "

The_Dover

28th April 2006, 12:55

I blame the maoris.

All that money we waste on treaty claims would bring the roads up to MotoGP standards all over the country. Then we wouldn't need pigs revenue gathering and we could up the speed limits accordingly.

Pixie

28th April 2006, 13:13

Good points. But the fact remains that the rest of the country feels putdown by Aucklanders so obviously will not feel too keen to help then when asked.
Actually most aucklanders are oblivious to the rest of the country.
If you feel "put down",that is a construct of your own mind and personality.
It probably can be treated.

Pixie

28th April 2006, 13:18

Now I know where all those logs are being transported to:to be made into chips for about six million shoulders

Big Dave

28th April 2006, 13:18

Actually most aucklanders are oblivious to the rest of the country.

I disagree.
Huge traffic jam columns of them stream out of the city to all points every weekend.

Pixie

28th April 2006, 13:22

Qkkid

28th April 2006, 13:25

Well 1.1 perhaps
can't wait for the bird 'flu'
Thats the greater auckland included pixie. From albany to manukau city

The_Dover

28th April 2006, 13:27

Does that include overstayers and illegal immigrants?

The Stranger

28th April 2006, 13:30

I live in Whangaparaoa... which is a fair distance from Auckland itself... and I don't consider myself an Aucklander... when asked where I am from I have no idea what to say!

I hate to be the one to cause you a nervous breakdown, but you ARE in Auckland.

Get over it.

Qkkid

28th April 2006, 13:31

:nya: Pixie doesnt live in Auckland because he lives in bugtussle :nya:

Str8 Jacket

28th April 2006, 13:37

Sorry for interrupting your discusion, but has anyone seen this?http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Auckland

Sorry just had to post it! :innocent:

Pixie

28th April 2006, 13:45

I disagree.
Huge traffic jam columns of them stream out of the city to all points every weekend.
To the seaside suburbs:whitianga ,coromandel,mangawhai etc

Pixie

28th April 2006, 13:46

:nya: Pixie doesnt live in Auckland because he lives in bugtussle :nya:
Viva Bugtussle!

Big Dave

28th April 2006, 14:08

Viva Bugtussle!

Bah - big smoke - I preferred Petticoat Junction.

Qkkid

28th April 2006, 14:13

Bah - big smoke - I preferred Petticoat Junction.
10 characters

hXc

28th April 2006, 14:57

Maybe if you listened to your parents a bit more you might not have the attitude you have.Just think about that statement hxc.You are old enough to take responsibility for yourself and your actions/attitudes. Get out there work hard if not get a good education ride your bike and not just in Napier ,outside your own little world.Think before you speak, im sure your parents dont like alot of your attitudes either i wonder how much red bling they give you hxc or do they only bling others?, i guess i will find out in a few posts :yes:
You really have no idea how much I do listen to my parents.

I know I'm old enough to take responsibility for myself, my actions and my attitude: What the fuck do you think I'm doing in this thread?!?!

I work hard and am prepared to get a good education. I do ride my bike, not just in Napier either.

Maybe if you weren't so focused on politics you would have seen my thread week or so ago. 700kms in 2 days is a lot for a 15yo who has been riding on the road for only 2-3 months.

I sometimes wonder if they don't like my attitudes. But isn't a part of being a teenager, learning about yourself. To do that, you must take a stance about things you wouldn't normally do so in. You have to be different to what you have been. Being a teenager is about learning about yourself and finding your place in the community.

Maybe you're too old, or just a hypocritical prick and have forgotten/chosen to ignore the fact that once, you too were a teenager.

Sure, do the modern thing - dispense with personal responsibilty.

For what it's worth a lot of younger ones are quite capable of screwing things up themselves because they want to do what THEY want to do and 'stuff you oldies and your rules and laws...':yes:
Yup, I'll do the modern thing because if you haven't already heard this, there's a saying that goes: Keep up with the times.

And maybe you too are too old or just hypocritical and have forgotten/chosen to ignore the fact that you were also a teenager once. Yes it may have been many years ago but not all that much has changed in the way teenagers are. Maybe teenagers today have more cars and have a bigger attitude. But it's the same principal.

Tell me this: When you were a teenager, did you disagree with older people's views? Did you also have the attitude of 'stuff you oldies and your rules and laws...'? If you did not, you haven't a life! The part of your life that prepares you for the rest of your life and who you become is your teenage years. Like it or not, that's the way it is. You too were once a teenager and I bet you had exactly the same attitude as the teenagers today.

Scumdog, and others saying things about my attitude, think about that. Think about your teenage years. Think about the things you did that adults didn't like when you were a teenager. It's all about YOUR life! If you don't like something, either do something about it, or just get away from it if that's what you want to do. Some things, I will do something about it. Others, I will get away from it. The ones that I get away from are the ones that I can't do anything about. I can't change the way this country works. It is absolutely impossible. So my choice is to get away from it. That is my choice. You make your choice.

If you think about it, the way this government is, is not democracy at all. Majority rules no longer is in place. Otherwise Labour would not be in power.

SixPackBack

28th April 2006, 15:09

HXC if my father had caught me being a xenophobic red neck like yourself all hell would have broken loose....your poorly advised sonny:bye:

hXc

28th April 2006, 15:12

HXC if my father had caught me being a xenophobic red neck like yourself all hell would have broken loose....your poorly advised sonny:bye:
You're the fucking redneck mate. You live in Auckland and you have absolutely no idea about anything. Wanker.

And...*Returns the red bling* NZ would not sink if Auckland didn't exist. It would be a much better place. In fact, if Auckland was a country all by itself, it'd be the laughing stock of the world - Not just the rest of NZ.

Wake up and smell the cheese guys.

Motu

28th April 2006, 15:18

Could someone pass me a hanky please - I have to blow my nose....and wipe my eyes.

Could you guys keep this going until I get home please...there's nothing on TV tonight.

hXc

28th April 2006, 15:20

**Passes Motu hanky** Don't blow your nose first - Wouldn't want snot in your eye.

The_Dover

28th April 2006, 15:33

And you wonder why us drummers get a reputation for being the thick cunts in the band?

hXc

28th April 2006, 15:40

And you wonder why us drummers get a reputation for being the thick cunts in the band?
Wouldn't have a clue mate?:blah:

scumdog

28th April 2006, 15:53

Scumdog, and others saying things about my attitude, think about that. Think about your teenage years. Think about the things you did that adults didn't like when you were a teenager. It's all about YOUR life! If you don't like something, either do something about it, or just get away from it if that's what you want to do. Some things, I will do something about it. Others, I will get away from it. The ones that I get away from are the ones that I can't do anything about. I can't change the way this country works. It is absolutely impossible. So my choice is to get away from it. That is my choice. You make your choice.

Yep, sure I went against the 'establishment' as all youn ones do - only thing was there were real repercussions (sp) back then that tended to keep you in line a little more than today (no serious backlash to doing wrong these days), plus there was NO WAY we could get ourselves 'in hock' (owe lots on hire-purchase for you young ones) back then either - you needed two-thirds the price of a car for deposit when buying it on h.p. - and if you were under 20 you needed parental consent for a shitload of financial transactions (you only have to look at how much shit under 20s get into these days to see why 18 is not a mature age - despite what the 'keep the drinking age at 18' ranks will bray at you..

There seemed to be more 'take responsibility for your actions' back then - but maybe I've had a repressed childhood and wasn't allowed to 'express' myself.??

As far as saying things about your attitude, I don't think I was too hard on you, you're not that much different to most teenagers of any generation, I was only pointing out a few salient points in your line of reasoning, - stuff you will realise when you get a little older..

hXc

28th April 2006, 15:59

scumdog

28th April 2006, 16:05

I never said you were too hard on me. I was just pointing out that most adults seem to forget that they were teenagers too and don't understand why we act the way we do.

As your sig says: Life is not a rehearsal.

Yep - but look ahead, don't repeat screw-ups you have seen others do and realise when you're beating your head against a brick wall it's best to stop doing so - and move on....

I CAN remember my teenage years and deal with a lot of teenagers (too many in a negative part of their life though which can make you a bit cynical apparently).

SixPackBack

28th April 2006, 16:10

You're the fucking redneck mate. You live in Auckland and you have absolutely no idea about anything. Wanker.

And...*Returns the red bling* NZ would not sink if Auckland didn't exist. It would be a much better place. In fact, if Auckland was a country all by itself, it'd be the laughing stock of the world - Not just the rest of NZ.

Wake up and smell the cheese guys.

Stop...your hurting my feelings:nya: that wanker comment coming from a 15 year old girl really hurt.:wait:

hXc

28th April 2006, 16:13

Stop...your hurting my feelings:nya: that wanker comment coming from a 15 year old girl really hurt.:wait:
Grow up.....

Drunken Monkey

28th April 2006, 16:16

Grow up.....

We could say that about you and your six fingers. Married your sister yet?

hXc

28th April 2006, 16:18

Ooooooooooh so insulting, coming from an Aucklander. But seriously, you should get those fantasies checked out.

yungatart

28th April 2006, 16:34

Remind me again why I should be supporting Auckland motorcyclists in their submissions - oh yes , because we are a community who look out for each other..
Yeah right!
Take a look at the insults and the name calling from supposed mature Auckland bikers all directed at a supposedly immature teenager.... Wow you guys are really a sensitive bunch, aren't you?
It's amazing that you could let one so young and immature wind you up so easily... yes, he proudly came and showed me his brown arms! True colours maybe, like you guys are displaying yours.
I'm with hXc and all the other apathetic rednecks - sort your own crap out and I wish you luck. From the "sound reasoning" used on here to convince others of the sense of your submissions - you are going to need all the luck you can get!
And yet, you could have so easily persuaded us to put in our submissions...

Motu

28th April 2006, 16:36

. I was just pointing out that most adults seem to forget that they were teenagers too and don't understand why we act the way we do.

As your sig says: Life is not a rehearsal.

We have no problem at all remembering our teenage years,and why we acted the way we did...at least I do anyway.They are pretty embaressing eh?

The_Dover

28th April 2006, 16:38

da da da da, click click
da da da da, click click
da da da da, da da da da, da da da da, click click.

MSTRS

28th April 2006, 16:39

We have no problem at all remembering our teenage years,and why we acted the way we did...at least I do anyway.They are pretty embaressing eh?
What do you know? What have you heard? How much do you want to keep it quiet?

Drunken Monkey

28th April 2006, 16:41

blah

blah

blah

Who's wound up? I thought this was a P.D. thread where we just had a bit of a giggle and poked fun at each other? hXc doesn't appear to be be running off in a huff yet, he's taking as good as he gives.

If you really, truly, honestly, don't give a shit about Auckland, why would you even post in this thread? Trolling? Post-count whoring? ???

hXc

28th April 2006, 16:42

If you really, truly, honestly, don't give a shit about Auckland, why would you even post in this thread? Trolling? Post-count whoring? ???
Because we are stating our views! We have as much right to post in this thread as you do.

Drunken Monkey

28th April 2006, 16:46

Because we are stating our views!

Ergo, you give a shit. Ergo Auckland interests you. Even if it is for some sort of wierd, sado-masochistic reason. Don't deny it, you're a closet Auckla-phile. You sit in Napier's bumper-to-bumper traffic for 3 minutes on Monday morning just wishing it would last another 45 minutes.
Don't lose that passion, albiet I think your energy would be better spent somewhere else. Maybe you need to get laid?

yungatart

28th April 2006, 16:47

Isn't it beer o'clock yet?

hXc

28th April 2006, 16:52

You sit in Napier's bumper-to-bumper traffic for 3 minutes on Monday morning just wishing it would last another 45 minutes.

3 minutes?!?! Shit that's a big traffic jam! We only get rush minute down here. And that's being fixed as we speak. It takes me about 5 minutes on a good day to get to school. Maybe less than that.

And yeah I do give a shit about Aucklanders. I wish they would shut up and stop whinging to the rest of us about their traffic problems. Just get on with fixing them! The rest of the country doesn't care!

MSTRS

28th April 2006, 17:01

Who's wound up? I thought this was a P.D. thread where we just had a bit of a giggle and poked fun at each other? hXc doesn't appear to be be running off in a huff yet, he's taking as good as he gives.

If you really, truly, honestly, don't give a shit about Auckland, why would you even post in this thread? Trolling? Post-count whoring? ???

Because we are stating our views! We have as much right to post in this thread as you do.

This thread started out as a serious request, inviting some feedback/assistance to an Auckland problem. We all have our views on that and will not always agree, but when a certain Aucklander got nasty/personal on the thread & with red bling comments...what do you expect? Like Auckland's traffic issues, ignoring him is not an option. Pania is now hooked up to the mains (SI power of course) - Napier looks forward to 'that visit'.

Drunken Monkey

28th April 2006, 17:07

This thread started out as a serious request, inviting some feedback/assistance to an Auckland problem. We all have our views on that and will not always agree, but when a certain Aucklander got nasty/personal on the thread & with red bling comments...what do you expect? Like Auckland's traffic issues, ignoring him is not an option. Pania is now hooked up to the mains (SI power of course) - Napier looks forward to 'that visit'.

Gee, if you want to get technical, I'm pretty sure the tone of the thread was lowered in post #2...

Auckland needs to pull it's fucking head in to line and see things normally, like the rest of us. Damned if I'm EVER living in Auckland. I hate the place.

...not that anyone's keeping score or anything. :whistle:

MSTRS

28th April 2006, 17:19

Gee, if you want to get technical, I'm pretty sure the tone of the thread was lowered in post #2...

...not that anyone's keeping score or anything. :whistle:
Where's the 'Chalk one up' smiley??? Enthusiasm of misguided youth, or just calling it as he sees it? I don't entirely disagree with what he meant, but he could have been more caring of Aucklanders' frazzled nerves/sensitive natures.

SixPackBack

28th April 2006, 17:22

Isn't it beer o'clock yet?

Not sure I would advise giving beer to a 15 year old with his hand super glued to his cock....lets face it he's silly enough!:yes:

Qkkid

28th April 2006, 17:27

Not sure I would advise giving beer to a 15 year old with his hand super glued to his cock....lets face it he's silly enough!:yes:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: :finger:

MSTRS

28th April 2006, 17:31

Not sure I would advise giving beer to a 15 year old with his hand super glued to his cock....lets face it he's silly enough!
Pathetic....at least he has the nous to state/defend his views eloquently, without resorting to personal-insult one-liners. The putdowns you are so fond of, go a long way to explaining his/our dislike of Aucklanders' attitudes.

Jantar

28th April 2006, 17:34

Qkkid

28th April 2006, 17:36

MSTRS

28th April 2006, 17:37

Ok, I supported the Aucklanders on here and sent in a submission. In view of the flak and red rep I'm receiving from a number of Aucklanders on here I now wish I hadn't done so. Sorry Auckland you can go to hell from now on as far as I'm concerned. :whocares:
I rest my case too....a redneck apology to you that you have been harshly treated by our 'betters'

Qkkid

28th April 2006, 17:38

I rest my case too....a redneck apology to you that you have been harshly treated by our 'betters'

yep suzuki do good

Squeak the Rat

28th April 2006, 17:40

Ok, I supported the Aucklanders on here and sent in a submission. In view of the flak and red rep I'm receiving from a number of Aucklanders on here I now wish I hadn't done so. Sorry Auckland you can go to hell from now on as far as I'm concerned. :whocares:
Red rep for what?? Are you sure it was from an Aucklander (i can't tell who reps me, i'm led to believe that kicks in at some point tho). Not that I'd suggest an anti-aucklander conspiracy or anything.....

From an Aucklander, and a biker, thank you for your submission.

Qkkid

28th April 2006, 17:42

(i can't tell who reps me, i'm led to believe that kicks in at some point tho).
just wait til i unlock mine, then we will see red shared around to who deserve some :finger:

Jantar

28th April 2006, 17:48

Red rep for what?? Are you sure it was from an Aucklander (i can't tell who reps me, i'm led to believe that kicks in at some point tho). Not that I'd suggest an anti-aucklander conspiracy or anything.....

From an Aucklander, and a biker, thank you for your submission.
Thanks for you support Squeak. Yes it was from two Aucklanders. Once you become a senior member you get to see who is sending it. One was because I am supposedly a redneck with my my attitude, and the other because I attempted to calm the debate between Auckland and the rest over this issue.

I guess there are some people on here who just try to prove what some of the rest of the country already believe. It a pity that some motorcyclists cant see beyond their own piece of territory.