Mad dogs, drug addicts...

[MikeL]

... what next?
Has the LTSA lost the plot or what?

Does anyone NOT think this latest advertising campaign is seriously misguided??

[SPman]

... what next?
Has the LTSA lost the plot or what?

Does anyone NOT think this latest advertising campaign is seriously misguided??
What ones that?.....dont see much TV.

[MikeL]

What ones that?.....dont see much TV.

Not T.V.... this morning's Herald.

[Ms Piggy]

I've only just seen the one with the guy who is "willing to kill" lotsa people. Haven't seen the one you've mentioned either.

[SPman]

Not T.V.... this morning's Herald.
Aaah - dont read the paper much, either. Must shield me from all this stuff.

[Hitcher]

The major failing with these ads is the "murderous intent" angle. While the LTSA chickened out on the suicide bomber ad, as part of this series, the other angles they have decided to run with are as bad.

Joe Bloggs (evil speed freak) has no intention to kill anybody. There is a big difference between a psychopath who drives to kill and somebody who drives quickly. The whole cause vs effect thing is absent here too.

The LTSA would be hard pressed to demonstrate the numbers of truly speed-related deaths versus total kilometres driven by drivers in excess of the open road speed limit. They wouldn't want to anyway, as the result would be miniscule.

[MD]

Totally agree MikeL. The DomPost had a full page of the druggie ad. That and the "he's prepared to kill" TV ad are absolute crap and an insult to our intelligence.
What next, LTSA to arrest ALL newborns because one day they may grow up and get behind a wheel and therefore, following LTSA logic, they are all pre-meditated murderers.

[Coldkiwi]

maybe the LTSA policy makers were watching Minority report a little too closely on sky last week?

[Big Dog]

What next, LTSA to arrest ALL newborns because one day they may grow up and get behind a wheel and therefore, following LTSA logic, they are all pre-meditated murderers.
Nup, they will get us all to pay a registration for our children worked out on an average number of traffic offenses x racial profile for probability of getting caught.
:shake:

Then being a new division of IRD they will still issue tickets / demerits / jailtime etc. :yeah:

[SPman]

Now I've seen it!
What a fuckin insult to even low intelligence!
So if we exceed whatever abitrary limit they impose upon us for whatever reason, we are the same as a pathological killer and are nought in their eyes!
Fuck 'em!
LTSA...:kick:

[Marmoot]

BUT , what can we do? Any suggestion?

[Posh Tourer :P]

The ads dont breach any statuatory broadcasting standards do they? Anyone want to write a letter to LTSA/ flood the papers with letters? I'll have a good look for it and write an indignant letter to the herald tomorrow

[Lou Girardin]

The ads dont breach any statuatory broadcasting standards do they? Anyone want to write a letter to LTSA/ flood the papers with letters? I'll have a good look for it and write an indignant letter to the herald tomorrow

Already did it :spudwhat:
I can't believe the stupidity of these Labour politicians who allow their LTSA minions to insult at least a million NZ drivers (possibly 2 million according to their own stats.). It seems that the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
It's another nail in the coffin of this collection of feminazi social engineers called the Labour party.
Lou

[pete376403]

let these guys know how you feel:
phodgson@ministers.govt.nz
hduynhoven@ministers.govt.nz

Suggest that you are not a: drug addict, family murderer or mad dog, but you are a motor licence holder AND a voter

[SPman]

let these guys know how you feel:
phodgson@ministers.govt.nz
hduynhoven@ministers.govt.nz

Suggest that you are not a: drug addict, family murderer or mad dog, but you are a motor licence holder AND a voter
Done!
Harry probably feels a bit the same way we do - he's a bit of a petrolhead!

[Lou Girardin]

Done!
Harry probably feels a bit the same way we do - he's a bit of a petrolhead!

Well, until he publicly states the policy is wrong, he's as bad as the rest.
Hypocrisy may be a job requirement, but it's not an excuse.
Lou

[Morepower]

The problem with this speeding is dangerous crap is that sends out a message that if you are driving within the speed limit you will be safe.Which is of course rubbish.
Crash at 99kmh and it wont look much different to 109kmh .

The advertising money needs to be spent on teaching that driving a vehicle of any type is potentialy dangerous no matter what the speed.

I would rather travel with an alert driver at 120kmh than with some people who are dangerous at 70kmh because they are doing just about everything but driving.

I think bike riders are (in the most part) safer road users because we only have one thing we can do and that is ride the bike. We cant change CD's (exceptions being Gold Wings and other super tourers ), fiddle with the radio, Text , apply makeup , eat , have kids screaming in the back seat etc etc...

Dave

[pete376403]

I think bike riders are (in the most part) safer road users because we only have one thing we can do and that is ride the bike. We cant change CD's (exceptions being Gold Wings and other super tourers ), fiddle with the radio, Text , apply makeup , eat , have kids screaming in the back seat etc etc...

Dave

And it is in our interests to be aware and alert, cos we suffer the most, regardless of who is at fault

[Ghost Lemur]

What I'd like to know is the true statistics of Motorcyclists requiring acc. Also a breakdown of those accidents by solo bin, involving car and car at fault. I have a feeling that most accidencts requiring acc involve cars at fault (sorry I didn't see you).

If that's the case I would like to know why it isn't car registrations that are more expensive. As by rights they are therefore causing a larger drain on the system than bikers themselves are. Yet because the biker ends up worse off in the accident we're penalized twice (once by getting hurt and two, by having to pay more for the privilege).

[Hitcher]

Welcome to the world of NEWSPEAK!

Wellington is staffed by a bunch of bureaucrats hell bent on furthering their own careers as "social marketers". It started with "slip slop slap" but has since moved on to more sinister messages where the Government tells people what to do and, more worryingly, what to think.

--Don't smoke
--Don't drink and drive
--Be nice to people with mental disease
--Use a bath mat
--Don't litter
--Eat fruit
--Wear a pushbike helmet

Worryingly, there are few checks and balances on this process. The LTSA, for example, has a Communications Director who works with their advertising agency on road safety messages. The Broadcasting Standards Authority appears to be the only basis of critique for this process. If the public criticises, that is seen as a positive endorsement that the message must be getting through.

BE WARNED: These are the same bureaucrats who will draft the replies to the letters or emails you send to Ministers.

Combined with other State-funded safety nets, we now have a society where people refuse to take responsibility for or accept the consequences of their own actions.

*Dismounts hobby horse. Returns it, still steaming, to stable.*

[SPman]

let these guys know how you feel:
phodgson@ministers.govt.nz
hduynhoven@ministers.govt.nz

Suggest that you are not a: drug addict, family murderer or mad dog, but you are a motor licence holder AND a voter Reply:-
On behalf of the Hon Harry Duynhoven, Associate Minister of Transport, I
acknowledge your email of 4 May 2004 to Hon Pete Hodgson concerning the
LTSA's current newspaper road safety advertisements.

Your email has been referred to Hon Duynhoven as the issue you raise falls
within his portfolio responsibilities. I will ensure your email is brought
to the Ministers attention.

Thank you.

Tania Ditchburn
Private Secretary (Transport)
Office of Hon Harry Duynhoven
Associate Minister of Transport

Ph: (04) 471 9856
Fax: (04) 472 8052

Hah!

[Motu]

I think bike riders are (in the most part) safer road users because we only have one thing we can do and that is ride the bike. We cant change CD's (exceptions being Gold Wings and other super tourers ), fiddle with the radio, Text , apply makeup , eat , have kids screaming in the back seat etc etc...

Dave

This could be why we are seeing less and less young people getting into bikes - the inability to text on the move must be a big drawback,to get more people on bikes the phone companies had better develope something better.

[madandy]

I dislike these ads as much as all of you.They enrage me out of sheer principle.
I, however, do not credit many cagers with the Auto-intelligence or skill behind the wheel to be offended, though.I don't know[well] any one besides my Father and one uncle and three cousins(all bikers or former bikers and all proffessional drivers at one time.) who posses half the skills required to recover control of a car in the event of a slide, brake lock-up or whatever emergency.Yes I'm sure some of you and many others do posses some or all of the skills I've alluded to...but you're still in a huge minority.
Any person who speeds, relative to conditions, beyond thier personal ability to maintain control of their car in all foreseeable emergancy situations that may occur IS knowingly endangering other road users.
I am guilty of exploring my limits at times and I chose to do so on public roads both on my bike and in my car as well as at private meets on racetracks.But always either under supervision(track) or on deserted roads where I pose risk to no-one bar myself.
The ads are aimed at the dickheads out there who think they are Schumacher, the twits who are always in a fucking hurry and the clowns who fail to concentrate on driving and all the experts who reckon they know how to 'handle' their car in traffic.
Only problem is that they will ignore these ads because they are so fuckin good behind the wheel they think the message is directed at some-one else.

[Skyryder]

What this county needs is a Hikoi Ride to Parliment. Maori know how to put one together. They have one single item. We need something that will unite 'all' of us. If a MP can drive his tractor up the steps of Parliment just think what the moto x boys could do for entertainment. Will need a better cause than some crappy add campagn. Now there's an idea. We have the Police Traffic Unit, what do we need the LTSA FOR?

Skyryder

It's not how you put it together, its why it was undone in the first place

[johno]

"The ads are aimed at the dickheads out there who think they are Schumacher, the twits who are always in a fucking hurry and the clowns who fail to concentrate on driving and all the experts who reckon they know how to 'handle' their car in traffic". (extract from a psoting)

If only it were true. But it is crap. It is aimed at everyone anywhere and at anytime, there is no subjective application of the accusation. There are three speed cameras on the 10k stretch of the Gt.North Road into Auckland. Hundreds must have been killed there before to warrant such an application, Should the speed limit on this wide, clear, main h'way be 50? The same as a narrow bendy road in a housing area.Last year I was tagged on an absolutely deserted back road in S.I. at 120k. Not even any stock in the paddocks. I explained this to the officer including my estimation that I had more chance of being abducted by aliens than having an accident. To no avail of course, why was he out there in nomans land with his little laser? Because he is brainwashed into really believing we are potential killers everywhere. I go to Oz last week, out of Sydney. On average everyone drives faster, speed limits generally 10 to 15k higher than ours.(Lots of different limits everywhere). I would like to see the statistics there compared to us, it must be mayhem with the dead and dying littering the road, not that I noticed any. Good news in UK, they are removing heaps and heaps of cameras, now changing to speed detectors flashing you a warning of your exceeding the limit. Saw quite a few of these on the way to Wollongong as well.

[Lou Girardin]

That's exactly the problem,madandy. We're producing a generation of drivers that think keeping below the speed limit and wearing your seatbelt is all it takes to be a good driver. They exercise more skill operating a vacuum cleaner than driving a car.
Thank you LTSA.
BTW who's emailed the Ministers? It only takes a couple of minutes to flood these idiots inboxes. Limit the abuse though.
Lou

[MikeL]

BTW who's emailed the Ministers? It only takes a couple of minutes to flood these idiots inboxes. Limit the abuse though.
Lou

Here's my email. Quite restrained when I think what I could have written:

I am dumbfounded. To compare motorists exceeding the speed limit with rabid dogs, murderers and drug addicts goes way beyond the boundaries of what is acceptable and reasonable. Even allowing for the hyperbole of advertising, this is just outrageous. The LTSA has gratuitously insulted me and hundreds of thousands of decent, rational New Zealanders. Stop this campaign before it does any more damage. We are voters as well as motorists, and we won't forget.

[pete376403]

I sent an e-mail to Hodgson, got the same reply as SPman (word for word)

[riffer]

I sent an e-mail to Hodgson, got the same reply as SPman (word for word)
Thank you for your email to Hon Pete Hodgson. You will, I am sure, appreciate that the Minister receives a vast amount of mail and he cannot always personally respond. Please be assured that your comments have been noted and you may receive a further response in due course.

Hmmm. Do you think we might be getting fobbed off here?

[Hitcher]

Thank you for your email to Hon Pete Hodgson. You will, I am sure, appreciate that the Minister receives a vast amount of mail and he cannot always personally respond. Please be assured that your comments have been noted and you may receive a further response in due course.

Hmmm. Do you think we might be getting fobbed off here?


"Fobbed" may not be the right expression. Ministers do get shitloads of mail and generally only respond if you ask them a question. "Rant" material will get sent to a policy analyst somewhere to consider.

[spudchucka]

That's exactly the problem,madandy. We're producing a generation of drivers that think keeping below the speed limit and wearing your seatbelt is all it takes to be a good driver. They exercise more skill operating a vacuum cleaner than driving a car.
Thank you LTSA.
BTW who's emailed the Ministers? It only takes a couple of minutes to flood these idiots inboxes. Limit the abuse though.
Lou
There is pretty much no driver education in this country, any halfwit that can pass a scratchy test ends up with a licence. Further to this problem is the abundance of high performance cars in the hands of school leavers and the fact that anyone can get endless finance.

The latest LTSA ads are extremely lame but I don't really care because if they make even one of these scratchy drivers licenced school leavers with a racing car think about what they are doing behind the wheel then I'll put up with the friggin ads (not that I watch the bloody things in the first place).

[Marmoot]

:Oi: Send a carbon copy to New Zealand Herald :Oi:

;)

[MikeL]

"Fobbed" may not be the right expression. Ministers do get shitloads of mail and generally only respond if you ask them a question. "Rant" material will get sent to a policy analyst somewhere to consider.

Agree. It would be unrealistic to expect anything other than a form letter in reply, but that doesn't mean that we're being fobbed off. They will take notice if there are enough emails.

[scumdog]

Already did it :spudwhat:
I can't believe the stupidity of these Labour politicians who allow their LTSA minions to insult at least a million NZ drivers (possibly 2 million according to their own stats.). It seems that the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
It's another nail in the coffin of this collection of feminazi social engineers called the Labour party.
Lou
How the fuck can you insult 2 million drivers when 1.5 million show by their driving that they are too thick to be insulted :ar15:

[scumdog]

There is pretty much no driver education in this country, any halfwit that can pass a scratchy test ends up with a licence. Further to this problem is the abundance of high performance cars in the hands of school leavers and the fact that anyone can get endless finance.

The latest LTSA ads are extremely lame but I don't really care because if they make even one of these scratchy drivers licenced school leavers with a racing car think about what they are doing behind the wheel then I'll put up with the friggin ads (not that I watch the bloody things in the first place).
Dead fuckin' right, some of those "scratchy" licence types hardly have enough breath in them to fog a mirror!!! Yhe whole test is too easy, the law should be that the speed you are allowed to do is linked with you IQ - some people would be going backwards!! :shit:

[scumdog]

The problem with this speeding is dangerous crap is that sends out a message that if you are driving within the speed limit you will be safe.Which is of course rubbish.
Crash at 99kmh and it wont look much different to 109kmh .

The advertising money needs to be spent on teaching that driving a vehicle of any type is potentialy dangerous no matter what the speed.

I would rather travel with an alert driver at 120kmh than with some people who are dangerous at 70kmh because they are doing just about everything but driving.

I think bike riders are (in the most part) safer road users because we only have one thing we can do and that is ride the bike. We cant change CD's (exceptions being Gold Wings and other super tourers ), fiddle with the radio, Text , apply makeup , eat , have kids screaming in the back seat etc etc...

Dave

You wanker, I\ve just been to a crash brcause the old guy backing his ute out of his garage though the other car was doing a 100kph when he was in fact doing a 120+ kph, "alert" didn't save that guy, the main things that save bike riders is that they see other roas users as dicks and driver accordingly :moon:

[Morepower]

You wanker, I\ve just been to a crash brcause the old guy backing his ute out of his garage though the other car was doing a 100kph when he was in fact doing a 120+ kph, "alert" didn't save that guy, the main things that save bike riders is that they see other roas users as dicks and driver accordingly :moon:

I will ignore the unneccessary personal insult. You seem to have missed the point of my message completely.
1.A good alert driver would not be doing 120+ where there was a likelyhood of anyone backing out of a Garage on to the road.
2. If the guy backing out saw the other car coming then it follows that the person speeding could see him backing out. A good driver (or rider) in this instance should be slowing down and thinking about what they will do if the reversing car keeps coming.

I could go on for hours about this, but a good driver drives to the environment and conditions and on occassions this will mean well under the posted speed limit.
A good driver or rider is thinking about what they are doing , too many are not and are driving while being distracted by other things, brainwashed into thinking that they are safe because they are driving within the speedlimit.

Dave

[Lou Girardin]

I will ignore the unneccessary personal insult. You seem to have missed the point of my message completely.
1.A good alert driver would not be doing 120+ where there was a likelyhood of anyone backing out of a Garage on to the road.
2. If the guy backing out saw the other car coming then it follows that the person speeding could see him backing out. A good driver (or rider) in this instance should be slowing down and thinking about what they will do if the reversing car keeps coming.

I could go on for hours about this, but a good driver drives to the environment and conditions and on occassions this will mean well under the posted speed limit.
A good driver or rider is thinking about what they are doing , too many are not and are driving while being distracted by other things, brainwashed into thinking that they are safe because they are driving within the speedlimit.

Dave

A beacon of commonsense shining through the fog of stupidity
Lou

[scumdog]

I will ignore the unneccessary personal insult. You seem to have missed the point of my message completely.
1.A good alert driver would not be doing 120+ where there was a likelyhood of anyone backing out of a Garage on to the road.
2. If the guy backing out saw the other car coming then it follows that the person speeding could see him backing out. A good driver (or rider) in this instance should be slowing down and thinking about what they will do if the reversing car keeps coming.

I could go on for hours about this, but a good driver drives to the environment and conditions and on occassions this will mean well under the posted speed limit.
A good driver or rider is thinking about what they are doing , too many are not and are driving while being distracted by other things, brainwashed into thinking that they are safe because they are driving within the speedlimit.

Dave
SORRY about the personal insult, I was fired up about the crash I mentione - that and the half bottle of Glenfiddich whiskey I had drunk did it :o
However "good" the rider is, he/she can't compensate for the other brain dead types around them hence we have to bow to the lowest common deniminator- the brain dead idiots "driving" around us.
Your last comment smacks of those that thought wearing seatbelts would encourage bad driving because the drivers would feel they were safe if they crashed :crazy:

[madandy]

A beacon of commonsense shining through the fog of stupidity
Lou


The only people who would agree with you, Lou are driving/riding enthusiasts.
The other 2.8 million(or however many) roadusers would rather teleport if it were possible and drive/ride out of sheer neccessity.That is the root of the problem...they don't give a shit...you could explain to them the virtues of driver training, escape route pre-planning, emergancy braking techniques cornering physics, machine maintenance, blah,blah,blah.They just wanna get to where they are going and god help any one who gets in their way.
Until that attitue is changed-and how would you go about enthusing the great un-washed - lessening the damage caused at impact, in an accident, by forcing drivers to slow down is potentially the most effective and cheapest way to reduce the road toll in the opinion of the wizards at the LTSA.

I sincerely wish we could educate drivers at the Learners stage to an adequate level of driving competence.It's a cultural thing...driving standards are generally higher in nations where citizens have a closer relationship to manufacturers, racing heritage, and a hundred years, or more of dense city traffic.I believe our driving culture will mature in time...nothing short of electing petrol heads into all positions of authority in local, and national government will help the current direction of policy

[madandy]

However "good" the rider is, he/she can't compensate for the other brain dead types around them hence we have to bow to the lowest common deniminator- the brain dead idiots "driving" around us.
Your last comment smacks of those that thought wearing seatbelts would encourage bad driving because the drivers would feel they were safe if they crashed :crazy:

or the they will think they're better with ABS brakes syndrome...and countless ski bums who wrecked 'un-crashable' Subaru 4x4 wagons... :whistle:

You just cant tell some people how to drive correctly.
If forced to slow down the net result IS less fatalaties and less 'loss of control' related incidents.

[Lou Girardin]

If forced to slow down the net result IS less fatalaties and less 'loss of control' related incidents.

Sorry, but accident figures don't agree with you. Since the advent of high profile, rigid enforcement 4 years ago, which reportedly has reduced average speeds by 2 - 3 km/h, fatal and injury accidents have steadily risen.
Somethings not working.
Lou

[scumdog]

Sorry, but accident figures don't agree with you. Since the advent of high profile, rigid enforcement 4 years ago, which reportedly has reduced average speeds by 2 - 3 km/h, fatal and injury accidents have steadily risen.
Somethings not working.
Lou

Lou, sure the figure has climbed by a small amount but when measured against the exta vehicle on the road and total kilometres driven the trend is still downwards as a percentage - I have access to the figure and if I had a scanner I would print them out for you, believe me it is not quite how the doomsayers tell you.

[pete376403]

While not doubting your figures, the old "lies, damned lies and statistics" comes to mind. LTSA could publish figures that show the road toll coming down (to show how well enforcment is working) then turn round and use those same figures to show how the toll is going up (as justification for more cameras, harsher enforcement, higher licensing fees, etc)

[MD]

Sorry, but accident figures don't agree with you. Since the advent of high profile, rigid enforcement 4 years ago, which reportedly has reduced average speeds by 2 - 3 km/h, fatal and injury accidents have steadily risen.
Somethings not working.
Lou
Too right Lou. There is definitely a wrong time and place for any form of speeding or silly antics but a rigid enforcement that says step one millimentre over this arbitrary limit and you are instantly branded a dangerous person irrespective of the conditions, isn't reasonable in my books.
Sorry if I've posted this before BUT, the official results from London Transport Authority after a year of congestion tax raised an anomaly the Police admitted "puzzled them" 1. average speed in inner London increased by 20% and 2. the accident rate DECREASED by 30%. Brit motorways move more traffic much faster than ours but I always felt safer because they 'collectively' drove better.

[marty]

an excerpt of comment on a World Health Organisation report, seems to follow what our LTSA says (or does the LTSA follow WHO?) some will say they are all working in a conspiriacy to take more hard earned $$$ off us...

"The report, prepared over 18 months by 100 experts, sketches a grim picture of one of the costs of growing prosperity in the developing world, where traffic deaths are expected to rise by 80 per cent by 2020 as hundreds of millions of cars go on the roads.

The 217-page document lays out action that rapidly developing countries - especially India, China and in South-East Asia - can take to try to lessen the carnage. They include stricter enforcement of traffic laws, more use of seatbelts, better road design and improved vehicle design and inspection."

[marty]

this table

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/8/51/2730851.pdf

would suggest that we are nowhere near the top of the list for managing to get our roal toll down. i suggest to you complainers to go to melbourne, the netherlands, switzerland et. al, and try to get away with speeding in the wrong place/wrong time. i have done over 1000kms on my bike and about 500k towing a trailer in the last 10 days, seen 2 (obvious) camera vans and one HP unit. if i didn't see any others they weren't lookin at me either, as i was giving them plenty to look at. and if you think being held up for a couple of minutes at a check point is a hassle - in melbourne the TAG units block SIX lanes of highway and breath test (not just sniffer test) EVERY driver.

[spudchucka]

Lou, sure the figure has climbed by a small amount but when measured against the exta vehicle on the road and total kilometres driven the trend is still downwards as a percentage - I have access to the figure and if I had a scanner I would print them out for you, believe me it is not quite how the doomsayers tell you.
Lou only sees what he wants to see and only quotes figures that will help to convince others that his delluded perception of the world is correct.

[Skyryder]

Sorry, but accident figures don't agree with you. Since the advent of high profile, rigid enforcement 4 years ago, which reportedly has reduced average speeds by 2 - 3 km/h, fatal and injury accidents have steadily risen.
Somethings not working.
Lou

My theory on the 'something is not working' is that today we have more things to do and less time to do it in. I think this is the problem. It is simply one of being organised as against being "rushed." No amount of driver education is going to fix an unorganised person. And the sad thing is more people today seem to live their entire lives in disarray. Couple this with indifference and a common lack of courtesy to other road users and this I believe is the cause of what we see on the roads today.

Skyryder