Dog Chipping? Dog tucker more like. [Archive]

Hitcher

2nd May 2006, 16:51

Greens Decide "All Dogs Or No Dogs"

Press Release by Green Party at 4:43 PM, 02 May 2006

The Green Party has reached a decision that microchipping dogs will not reduce attacks on children, stock and wildlife.

Co-Leader Jeanette Fitzsimons says: "The caucus, this morning, delayed making a final decision while we waited for further evidence the Government had promised to show the microchipping would improve safety.

"We were not convinced by the evidence offered this afternoon, and if there is any opportunity to vote to remove the microchipping requirement for all dogs, we will do so.

"We have considered the National Party's position to exempt farm dogs, but decided this would be totally unfair," Ms Fitzsimons says.

"Dogs are dogs whether they live on the farms or not and the Green Party position is based on the principle of 'all dogs or no dogs".

"Micropchipping is either effective for preventing dog attacks and should be required for all dogs, or it is not, and shouldn't be required for any.

"We will therefore be voting against any amendment to specifically exempt particular dogs, but for any proposal to remove microchipping altogether"

ENDS

Lou Girardin

2nd May 2006, 17:09

I hear the fluttering of chickens coming home to roost.
Poor Helen.
Still, the cow might offer to ban motorbikes if the Greens vote for dog chipping.

sAsLEX

2nd May 2006, 17:50

"Dogs are dogs whether they live on the farms or not and the Green Party position is based on the principle of 'all dogs or no dogs".

Dont think I have ever agreeded with something released from the Green party, not likely to in the future either.

How are farm dogs the same as all other dogs? Most people will never ever meet a farm dog, yet will meet a domestic dog most days they venture out and about

cowpoos

2nd May 2006, 19:37

If only bikers could lobby like Federated farmers.

They could....but they got to gt off there arses and want to....hmm

and yes...be fuckin brillent to stop a new tax coming in....

spudchucka

2nd May 2006, 20:14

I'm all for dog control but this is just an expensive pointless exercise.

sAsLEX

2nd May 2006, 20:18

I'm all for dog control but this is just an expensive pointless exercise.

AND WHAT FARMERS DONT HAVE THEIR DOGS UNDER CONTROL, THOSE THAT ARE BAD GET SHOT

Jantar

2nd May 2006, 20:18

kickingzebra

2nd May 2006, 21:40

I vote micro chipping for politicians, and then a reality show, where each week, one of caucus, is put in the stand, by text voting, and has to defend their right to live. If they fail, microchip device explodes.
:shit:

Did I mention the device would have to be humanely injected in or near the genital region...:kick:

and bloody good riddance to that waste of taxpayers money bill.

MSTRS

3rd May 2006, 09:52

I would support microchipping of dogs if it would reduce the number of dog attacks. But so far no politician has explained how microchipping makes a dog less aggressive. Nor have they explained how it makes a dog easier to track.So NO CHIPPING at all gets my support.
+1. Besides, even if above 'claims' were true, it is unregistered dogs that are the problem (as a rule, because their owners don't care) and that would not change. Is it possible that this whole thing was just a smoke screen to hide other goings-on? Nope. I'm not paranoid. :innocent:

Paul in NZ

3rd May 2006, 10:21

Any attack on a young child by an animal is bad news and efforts must be made to reduce this or if possible, eliminate it. I cannot see how chipping animals will accomplish this and neither (it appears) can anyone else other than the increasingly mad Labour govt.

However, there are a hell of a lot more attacks on kids carried out by people. Christ, forget the kids, just attacks full stop!

Perhaps we ought to chip people? (I'm thinking wood chipper for some of em)

Paul N

sAsLEX

3rd May 2006, 10:41

Any attack on a young child by an animal is bad news and efforts must be made to reduce this or if possible, eliminate it.

On farms I have nearly been killed/injured badly by cows/pigs/sheep/deer therefor I assume these will be gettting chipped soon to stop all the dangerous farm animals from endangering the public

manuboy

3rd May 2006, 10:46

The whole chipping debate is misguided and bogus imho. Its another governmental kneejerk reaction.

Dogs, like most animals are simple creatures. Way back, when men where a lot closer to the land, we used / befriended dogs for a variety of reasons. They were generally easy to train, they provided protection and they helped with hunting / gathering amongst other things.

Their basic makeup hasn't come a long way since those days. But the world they live in has. Therein lies half the problem.

Dogs are strongly hierachical, and typically very protective of their pack members. Obviously they don't have our "intelligence" though. So if a dog becomes a problem because it attempted to take on another dog at a park, or bit a kid, it's the owners problem imho - it demonstrates a lack of control, and surely as a dog owner, you accept a basic duty to let the dog know what it's place in the pack is and to demonstrate a good degree of control.

I sure as hell did.

If i was down the park and one of my animals did that i should be punished, not the dog. It was probably just forfilling what it considered to be it's basic duties whereas i failed in mine because let the dog get into a position where it could turn to shit. The dog does as i say. I want them to obey. They do. That's my obligation to them. It protects them as much as the general public really.

Chipping won't prevent dog attacks. That's obvious. It will possibly generate income for vets.

It's a simple issue, the difficulty lies in how to ensure owners are fit to keep dogs, just the same way as ensuring people are fit to own guns. Very very difficult.

The bottom line i reckon is (as in most things), it's a people problem.

I'm avoiding the area of people owning animals predisposed to attacking and fighting, slightly different story - although i know a couple of breeders and i still think it's a person problem - you still need to demonstrate control.

As for attacks on my own property - You have free access to my front door. My dogs will bark first. They'll bark lots and they'll bark loud. If you attempt to get access to the area they're contained in, its your own dumb fault whether you are 9 or 90 (although my animals will still probably not bite you 99% of the time).

Hitcher

3rd May 2006, 10:58

One Law For Dogs

Press Release by Green Party at 9:59 AM, 03 May 2006

The Green Party has drafted an amendment to the Local Government Law Reform Bill that will abolish compulsory microchipping for dogs.

Green Party MP Metiria Turei, who is a member of the Local Government and Environment select committee, will give notice on Thursday that she intends to move the motion and expects there will be majority support on the committee for such a move.

"We understand the National Party has also proposed a similar amendment and we are happy to compare notes with them to draft the best law possible to see compulsory microchipping of dogs scrapped.

"We are taking a principled and proactive stand on this issue and will not prefer one group of people or dogs over another. Compulsory microchipping of dogs is not going to protect the vulnerable from dog attacks. So, instead of favouring the farm border collie over Grandma's poodle, we propose to abolish compulsory microchipping for dogs altogether.

"If the committee, made up of four Labour MPs, four National MPs and myself, passes the amendment, as I expect, it will be reported back to the House. There it will depend on United Future's three votes. If they believe what they are saying about farm dogs, they can achieve this, and more, by voting for our amendment," Mrs Turei says.

The Green Party amendment would continue the use of microchip transponders for dangerous or menacing dogs.

Co-Leader Jeanette Fitzsimons says: "We hope that compulsory microchipping will be gone from our law books by the middle of the year. There is just no need to impose this unnecessary and expensive procedure on dogs and dog owners."

"We asked the Government to demonstrate clear and compelling arguments that microchipping will prevent dog attacks, but their evidence was unconvincing. Compulsory microchipping simply cannot be justified and we won't support it.

ENDS

Paul in NZ

3rd May 2006, 11:30

We just discussed this here and I suppose I'd support a law making chipping mandatory IF it was followed up by a team that goes about destroying unchipped dogs.

Smorg

3rd May 2006, 11:35

i think they should chip all sheep

MSTRS

3rd May 2006, 11:40

i think they should chip all sheep
...and potatoes

cowpoos

3rd May 2006, 11:53

thats the smartest thing the greens hav ever done!!

James Deuce

3rd May 2006, 11:58

i think they should chip all sheep

And let us have a button on our handle bars to asplode them when the run out on the road in front of you and then double back and then perform a backflip and charge straight at you.

cowpoos

3rd May 2006, 12:06

And let us have a button on our handle bars to asplode them when the run out on the road in front of you and then double back and then perform a backflip and charge straight at you.
can't get focused on work today eh!

Swoop

3rd May 2006, 12:29

Typical bloody green party...
harder to nail down than jelly.........

More slippery than a teflon-coated, greased eel.

Finn

3rd May 2006, 12:41

Regardless, we've decided not to chip our dog. Council can go fuck themselves.

Bring on the revolution. Me and my dog are ready.

Hitcher

3rd May 2006, 12:58

i think they should chip all sheep
That's coming sooner than you may imagine. More likely to be an RFID tag than a chip, though. All cattle and deer too.

Hitcher

3rd May 2006, 12:59

thats the smartest thing the greens hav ever done!!
One sometimes wonders why they are so keen to protect the planet when they are so rarely on it...

Smorg

3rd May 2006, 13:13

That's coming sooner than you may imagine. More likely to be an RFID tag than a chip, though. All cattle and deer too.

shit, next will be goldfish, guinea pigs, rabbits and cats..........fucken cats should definately be chipped then shot. They do more damage to the native fauna than anything else.......bastards

Str8 Jacket

3rd May 2006, 13:18

cats..........fucken cats should definately be chipped then shot.

But only ginga ones, they have no soul...

Smorg

3rd May 2006, 13:25

But only ginga ones, they have no soul...

A cat is a cat is a cat........that reminds me, i might go and find my air rifle

Indoo

3rd May 2006, 14:12

I loved Jeanettes "why should grandmas 'harmless' poodle be chipped and the farmers German Shepherd not be?".

Firstly poodles are vicious little pricks who are far more likely to bite someone than a well trained german shepherd. Secondly German Shepherds are hardly the number one dog for farmers. And thirdly shes trying to perpetrate some image of a german shepherd as a vicious killing machine. You would think the stupid hippy bitch would at least get her facts straight.

Farm dogs are not the problem its uncontrolled dogs with crappy owners in urban areas that are. But then you have to ask will chipping dogs make one iota of difference to these crappy owners. Unless they are going to actually get way more dog control officers, give them way more powers and make the penalties far more severe it will not do crap. The only one it will penalise is the responsible owner who will bother to get their dog chipped.

Hitcher

3rd May 2006, 15:30

I loved Jeanettes "why should grandmas 'harmless' poodle be chipped and the farmers German Shepherd not be?".
The Greens' release is posted verbatim earlier. The comments weren't attributed to Genetic Fitzsimons and the selected farmer's dog was a border collie.

Lou Girardin

3rd May 2006, 16:02

A cat is a cat is a cat........that reminds me, i might go and find my air rifle

You do that sport, then come around to Birkdale and meet Mr Ruger.

Smorg

3rd May 2006, 16:09

You do that sport, then come around to Birkdale and meet Mr Ruger.

ooooooook hero, if cats get in my rubbish i shoot them im not a saddist but

it gets rid of them. That was a really gay call

Motu

3rd May 2006, 16:33

Devonport Fairy - if you want to have fun with cats,come on down to Huntly,we have more imagination than that....

Finn

3rd May 2006, 16:41

You do that sport, then come around to Birkdale and meet Mr Ruger.

And his buddy, Mr Microwave.

Lou Girardin

3rd May 2006, 16:58

I should have known that Jeanettically Modified would forego principles to back the sisterhood.
It's now down to the Nat's embarrasing United Future into supporting non chipping for all dogs.

SPman

3rd May 2006, 17:56

And let us have a button on our handle bars to asplode them when the run out on the road in front of you and then double back and then perform a backflip and charge straight at you.
Could've done with that last weekend....yelled at sheep to get of road - which she dutifully did, then it cleaned up a 250 rider (on a ZZR250.............hmm), about half an hour after we went through. If I could've just pushed a button and, BOOM, no more prblems...........

Smorg

3rd May 2006, 18:06

Devonport Fairy - if you want to have fun with cats,come on down to Huntly,we have more imagination than that....

I live in a populated area its hard to get to imaginative without the cops turning up. Be carefull what you say or you'll get Lou'ise running for his security stick

cowpoos

3rd May 2006, 18:56

That's coming sooner than you may imagine. More likely to be an RFID tag than a chip, though. All cattle and deer too.
yes....and us farmers still havn't figured that one out either!!!

Paul in NZ

3rd May 2006, 19:50

yes....and us farmers still havn't figured that one out either!!!

Simple - it's so drop kicks like me can sell hicks like you 500,0000,000 ear tags

Storm

3rd May 2006, 20:01

Will you use the money for a flasher bike though Paul?

(Dont hit me too hard)

cowpoos

3rd May 2006, 20:08

Simple - it's so drop kicks like me can sell hicks like you 500,0000,000 ear tags
thats what we figure.....but we havn't been able to get a valid reason from the government nazi's yet.....

Jantar

3rd May 2006, 20:13

The Greens' release is posted verbatim earlier. The comments weren't attributed to Genetic Fitzsimons and the selected farmer's dog was a border collie.
That may be true for their press release, but on TV Janette Fitzsimons definitely said "German Shepherd". Mrs J and both looked at each other and asked what farmer would be stupid enough to use a German Shepherd as a sheep dog. Their instinct is to hold, not herd.

Smorg

3rd May 2006, 20:18

That may be true for their press release, but on TV Janette Fitzsimons definitely said "German Shepherd". Mrs J and both looked at each other and asked what farmer would be stupid enough to use a German Shepherd as a sheep dog. Their instinct is to hold, not herd.

German "shepherd" ...........they dont call them that coz thier bullfighters. They have no 'hold' instinct

Jantar

3rd May 2006, 20:45

German "shepherd" ...........they dont call them that coz thier bullfighters. They have no 'hold' instinct

Oh really? Then why do the police use them if they have no hold instinct. And please provide evidence of any sheep farmer that successfully uses them as sheep dogs. I know that it is one breed of dog that I'd shoot on sight if I saw one anywhere near any of my sheep.

Ixion

3rd May 2006, 20:58

Smorg

3rd May 2006, 21:02

Oh really? Then why do the police use them if they have no hold instinct. And please provide evidence of any sheep farmer that successfully uses them as sheep dogs. I know that it is one breed of dog that I'd shoot on sight if I saw one anywhere near any of my sheep.

why dont the police use pitbulls or staffie's if they are after dogs with holding instincts?

you farmers will shoot anything.......

http://www.geocities.com/heartland/ranch/5093/showork.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Shepherd

Do you need anything else?

Smorg

3rd May 2006, 21:04

My understanding (though it is but based on a vague memory, so correction is welcome), is that the breed was originally used in the Vosges, by shepherds, not to herd their sheep, but to protect the sheep (and I guess shepherd) from the wolves which in bygone days were endemic in those parts.

To protect and to herd, german shepherds are good at patrolling borders therefore keeping the sheep contained and safe, this is also what contributes to them being excellent guard dogs

WINJA

3rd May 2006, 21:05

did someone say chip the farmers instead

Jantar

3rd May 2006, 21:09

Thanks for the wikipedia reference. As I said, they are more suited to hold than to herd.

"The German Shepherd Dog does not have the "eye" as border collies or other similar breeds. They are trained to follow their instinct, which for the GSD is to "work the furrow", meaning that they will patrol a boundary all day and restrict the animals being herded from entering or leaving the designated area. It is this instinct that has made the breed superb guarding dogs, protecting their flock (or family) from harm."

Smorg

3rd May 2006, 21:22

And please provide evidence of any sheep farmer that successfully uses them as sheep dogs. .

I provided evidence of sheep farmers using them succesfully as sheep dogs in both herding & guarding.

so your wrong

Jantar

3rd May 2006, 21:39

I provided evidence of sheep farmers using them succesfully as sheep dogs in both herding & guarding.

so your wrong

Maybe, but I at this stage I won't concede. The only times I have ever seen German shepherds near sheep in New Zealand has been when they have been worrying sheep. The photo you provided could just as easily be a dog worrying as a dog herding.

Perhaps there is a simple solution. Just provide a name of any New Zealand sheep farmer successfully using them as sheepdogs. I'll give him a ring to confirm, then if you're right I'll concede.

Pixie

3rd May 2006, 23:07

That may be true for their press release, but on TV Janette Fitzsimons definitely said "German Shepherd". Mrs J and both looked at each other and asked what farmer would be stupid enough to use a German Shepherd as a sheep dog. Their instinct is to hold, not herd.
Why are they called german shepards?
or ,for that matter, do german short haired pointers point at short haired germans?

sAsLEX

3rd May 2006, 23:19

do german short haired pointers point at short haired germans?

Would of been handy during the war!

Smorg

4th May 2006, 02:08

Maybe, but I at this stage I won't concede. The only times I have ever seen German shepherds near sheep in New Zealand has been when they have been worrying sheep. The photo you provided could just as easily be a dog worrying as a dog herding.

Perhaps there is a simple solution. Just provide a name of any New Zealand sheep farmer successfully using them as sheepdogs. I'll give him a ring to confirm, then if you're right I'll concede.

Like I could be bothered...............i know im right, you know Im right so thats all that matters. If that german shepard is worrying sheep in that photo ill buy you a mars bar

Indoo

4th May 2006, 08:32

The Greens' release is posted verbatim earlier. The comments weren't attributed to Genetic Fitzsimons and the selected farmer's dog was a border collie.

Yep and thats what she said later on the radio. If she had used border collie again then she wouldn't have sounded quite so stupid.

Lou Girardin

4th May 2006, 08:50

Would of been handy during the war!

So the counter-measure is growing long hair?
They'd have to breed a new dog.

spudchucka

4th May 2006, 14:10

The only times I have ever seen German shepherds near sheep in New Zealand has been when they have been worrying sheep.
My five year old male shepherd lives next to a paddock full of sheep with only a standard eight wire and batten fence between them. He doesn't show them the slightest bit of interest, however, should the neighbours cat be stupid enough to venture into his domain he tends to turn himself inside out trying to catch the litle f*^ker. He then does a perimeter check for about the next hour and a half, pissing and shitting all around the boundry.

Shepards working for the police certainly do have a hold instinct but whats more important is that they have the ability to learn to release on command.

Smorg

4th May 2006, 15:02

My five year old male shepherd lives next to a paddock full of sheep with only a standard eight wire and batten fence between them. He doesn't show them the slightest bit of interest, however, should the neighbours cat be stupid enough to venture into his domain he tends to turn himself inside out trying to catch the litle f*^ker. He then does a perimeter check for about the next hour and a half, pissing and shitting all around the boundry.

Shepards working for the police certainly do have a hold instinct but whats more important is that they have the ability to learn to release on command.

Finally...............bling

Lou Girardin

4th May 2006, 16:10

Shepards working for the police certainly do have a hold instinct but whats more important is that they have the ability to learn to release on command.

And give a bloody good chewing on command too.

Smorg

4th May 2006, 18:23

And give a bloody good chewing on command too.

Lucky you and the homies chill out with Mr. Ruger

Swoop

23rd April 2007, 08:04

Thank goodness this law protected the lady in Murapara.
Those dog chips really work, where would we be without them. Thank you, New Zealands politicians, you have done us proud once again. I am humbled in the presence of such intelligence and wise decision-making.

scumdog

23rd April 2007, 11:40

Chipping dogs will stop dog attacks the same way registering guns will stop people getting shot.........

scumdog

23rd April 2007, 11:47

Oh really? Then why do the police use them if they have no hold instinct. And please provide evidence of any sheep farmer that successfully uses them as sheep dogs. I know that it is one breed of dog that I'd shoot on sight if I saw one anywhere near any of my sheep.

Well a mate of mine trained his as a duck dog (won a novice section at gun-dog trials and all) and I was with him heaps of times duck-shooting and saw the dog retrieve ducks, (was a strong swimmer, he could swim upstream in the Clutha River)

So given that I suppose they could be trained as a sheep-dog too.

spudchucka

23rd April 2007, 11:48

Chipping dogs will stop dog attacks the same way registering guns will stop people getting shot.........

..... and criminalising smacking will stop child abuse......

Ixion

23rd April 2007, 16:18

...
Meanwhile, Society for the Protection of Cruelty to Animals chief executive Bob Kerridge yesterday said the fourth fatal dog attack in 10 years should not prompt major changes in dog control laws.
"We had hoped pitbulls would be banned but that hasn't happened," Mr Kerridge told NZPA.
"However, most of the laws are fine. It's just that in some cases people don't abide by the laws, and that seems to be what happened here."

Ahh, no, d'y' really think so Bob. I mean, people not abiding by the laws? But, like, I mean wouldn't that be sort of , like , actually illegal. Y' really think that anyone would do that? Nah, must be a mistake. People not abide by the laws. Shit , next thing you'll be telling me that there are people that actually exceed the speed limit. I don't think so, Bob. Let's get real here and come down to earth. It stands to reason that if there are laws passed OF COURSE everyone will obey them. I mean, it's the law , iddn it.

Skyryder

23rd April 2007, 17:47

Chipping dogs will stop dog attacks the same way registering guns will stop people getting shot.........

I have no problem with dog chipping. It was never about prevention of attack as may have claimed. It simply gives details of ownership should the dog become invloved in an incident.

Vehicle rego (ID) does not not stop driving offences but the arguement you seem to be propounding is akin with doing away with vehicle registration. I'm sure many here would support that but think of the chaos on our roads as a result.

Skyryder