Who just watched the article on Closeup about the teen done for dangerous driving?

[Sketchy_Racer]

I don't know what feelings you guys have about it, But from what I saw on T.V The police have FUCKED UP big time.

There is SO much evidence, from Two investigators and witnesses, yet the judge still said that the teen driving was in the wrong.

I don't understand how if you are driving down a piece of road and you hit something that pulled into your lane makes you in the wrong.

I can't believe this!!

And then the fucking police wonder why the NZ public have such a negative attitude towards them.

Not all the police are in the wrong and i know "Not all police are like that"
But a police officer is in complete and utter wrong from the evidence shown on T.V and the justice system blames the innosent guy.

I Now believe that this country has some serious fucking problems and its going to snowball if we don't get someone with 2 fucking brain cells into the leadership.

I now await all Red rep for posting my opinion of this country.

Fucked off,
-RG100!!

[nadroj]

Any comment without dropping yourself in it Scumdog?

[Sketchy_Racer]

sorry I don't understand what you said/wrote?

[mdb]

I didn't see the article mentioned but do remember the infamous speeding motorcade incident trial (last year). All I would say is that what is presented on TV isn't what happened. It isn't the first time and it won't be the last ... TV (papers etc), generally only present one side of the story (regardless of the facts).

[hXc]

Facts are facts and evidence is evidence. Is it possible to fabricate the sort of evidence that was presented? I don't see how the young fella could have been at fault. Another nail in the coffin of public respect for the lying blue line.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Yep sure are HXC

From the skid marks etc i saw on the tv, it looked pretty damn obvious who was in the wrong.......

Its bloody rediculous

[Sketchy_Racer]

I didn't see the article mentioned but do remember the infamous speeding motorcade incident trial (last year). All I would say is that what is presented on TV isn't what happened. It isn't the first time and it won't be the last ... TV (papers etc), generally only present one side of the story (regardless of the facts).
Yes that is true, They probably didnt say that the teen was speeding and drunk. But im sure if he was the police would stamp their feet about it

[oldguy]

didn't see the program. but as far as I know if you run into the back of someone reguardless of the fact he cut you off your to blame,I think they see it as he should have been able to stop in time, if the other person hit him I think thats a different story, still could be wrong, can't help but feel sorry for the guy :angry:

[Sketchy_Racer]

From the 'evidence' shown, the police holden rodeo was parked in the grass on the left hand side of the rode. He then (according to the evidence) went to make a U turn and turned into the path of the teen driver. The teen driver hit him in the drivers door at a 90degree angle. Definatly not a arse end.

[sAsLEX]

didn't see the program. but as far as I know if you run into the back of someone reguardless of the fact he cut you off your to blame,I think they see it as he should have been able to stop in time, if the other person hit him I think thats a different story, still could be wrong, can't help but feel sorry for the guy :angry:

The cop was on the left hand side of the road and pulled a U turn in front of the oncoming teenager.

Two experts have stated that the cops statement that he was in the centre of the road indicating to pull in to the driveway was rubbish and that he must of been on the left verge, and also two eyewitnesses also confirmed they had seen the cop on the verge but the Judge dismissed all this evidence and took the word of the Cop.

[mdb]

Yes that is true, They probably didnt say that the teen was speeding and drunk. But im sure if he was the police would stamp their feet about it

Don't forget the tut tut'ing and finger wagging that would go on!

[oldguy]

The cop was on the left hand side of the road and pulled a U turn in front of the oncoming teenager.

Two experts have stated that the cops statement that he was in the centre of the road indicating to pull in to the driveway was rubbish and that he must of been on the left verge, and also two eyewitnesses also confirmed they had seen the cop on the verge but the Judge dismissed all this evidence and took the word of the Cop.Wow he hit a cop!!!! your always going to lose that one.:doh:

[chanceyy]

The cop was on the left hand side of the road and pulled a U turn in front of the oncoming teenager.

Two experts have stated that the cops statement that he was in the centre of the road indicating to pull in to the driveway was rubbish and that he must of been on the left verge, and also two eyewitnesses also confirmed they had seen the cop on the verge but the Judge dismissed all this evidence and took the word of the Cop.


and independant experts at that... also since the kid was only 17 could not remember the accident, wanted to plead gulity, but his g/friends father knew that the evidence was not correct and sort 1 independant expert, and then tv crew took it to another independant expert ... two experts can not be mistaken esp based on evidence only ... also what did the judge say .. something along the lines of the cop is of higher integrity than the 17 yr old kid .. or words basically to that effect

justice .. what blardy justice

[Jantar]

I didn't see the programme. Where did it happen, and who was the judge?

[eliot-ness]

The most damning part IMO was the fact that the accident happened 25mtrs past the driveway the cop was supposedly turning in to, The skidmarks proved that. Also, isn't there an offence called 'turning right without due care'
Whatever, the officer's word was believed and the young guy branded as a liar, the witnesses mistaken, and the experts evidence discounted. I will be very surprised if the police go ahead with their claim for damages. As they are quick to point out. The case is now closed.

[oldrider]

Yes, I saw it and it does not look good for the Police but then the program was on TV!
I will wait and see both sides before I make up my mind.
The truth will out but I hope it will be the real truth and real justice will prevail.
Close enough to home for me to keep abreast of the situation.
Actually I think it is right on Jantar's back door?
I had an incident with a Cocky near Waimate, almost exactly the same.
He was sitting on the side of the road then just pulled straight out in front of me, no indication, didn't even look. BANG!!!
I was doing 100kph at the time but it all happened in very, very, slow motion.
Lucky no one was hurt, recked both vehicles!
I think the boy has a good case on the evidence the program produced, but!??? lots of questions yet I would say. :nono: John.

[sAsLEX]

.. something along the lines of the cop is of higher integrity than the 17 yr old kid .. or words basically to that effect

justice .. what blardy justice

Now where is this list of Integrity how would it go?


Judges
Military Officers
Cops
Preists
mums
17 year olds


Phew my word is better than cops I can blatently lie in court and get away with it, if that list was true, wonder where the true list is?

[Sketchy_Racer]

I still can't figure out, with all that 'evidence' against the cop, that the cop still won??!!

There would have to be someother bullshit around the case than what was shown...... surely!!

From what i have seen I'm still Pissed at how the police have gone about it.

[chanceyy]

The most damning part IMO was the fact that the accident happened 25mtrs past the driveway the cop was supposedly turning in to, The skidmarks proved that. Also, isn't there an offence called 'turning right without due care'
Whatever, the officer's word was believed and the young guy branded as a liar, the witnesses mistaken, and the experts evidence discounted. I will be very surprised if the police go ahead with their claim for damages. As they are quick to point out.

The case is now closed.

The case is closed from the cops point of view .. but what about the young lad whose going to have a record .. issues with insurance, no licence for the next 6 months, and $600 fine .... based on the evidence .. i sure hope its not closed ...
will make for interesting follow up

[laRIKin]

didn't see the program. but as far as I know if you run into the back of someone reguardless of the fact he cut you off your to blame,I think they see it as he should have been able to stop in time, if the other person hit him I think thats a different story, still could be wrong, can't help but feel sorry for the guy :angry:

Since you did not see the program I will try to just out line the crash.
The Cop was hit in the middle (or near enough to it) on the right hand side of the road on the right side of his vehicle.
With skid marks from the car were going from about the centre to the right side of the road as the lad tried to swerve to miss the cop's LWB pickup.
The pick up had gone passed the corner that he said he was turning in to when hit.
Because of the turning circle of his vehicle, you would have to be way to the left of the road and properly just off the road to do a one movement "U" turn.

So it looks like he went passed the corner he wanted to go down, as he had seen a wandering cattle beast that could have caused a accident.
So pulled left to do a "U" turn to control the cattle beast and warn traffic.
Did not see the car, so there was a crash.
An honest mistake to me, that is if you believe the TV program.

The Cop said that he stopped in the middle of the road and was doing a right hand turn and was crashed into my the young lad.

Draw your own conclusions.

[mdb]

I still can't figure out, with all that 'evidence' against the cop, that the cop still won??!!

There would have to be someother bullshit around the case than what was shown...... surely!!

From what i have seen I'm still Pissed at how the police have gone about it.

Evidence doesn't necessarily make it into court ...

[Dafe]

It's been a long while since the NZ Police Force had any integrity.

The Government has dealt to that, simply by lowering the entry standards and ultimately allowing individuals like Bykey Cop into the force. :wait:

This labour government is a huge downfall for this country.

Unfortunately, too many New Zealanders are either too ill educated about polictics or they're a beneficarie/refugee.

If you were a beneficiarie or refugee and you arrived into this country, you would be so thankful, you would forever devote your votes to labour. There are now 250,000 refugees living in New Zealand.
If you didn't like working and prefer to receive a government benefit so you can stay home all day, you'd vote labour to ensure you keep that benefit coming in.

Also, this government is all about Political Correctness Bullshit! Which is leading to our third world development in unbelieveable time.

We are a becoming a country of bludgers, this is supported by Labour, and there are so many bludgers now that it will be near impossible to overcome the labour votes of all the losers we have in this country.

Best advice for anyone, Join the 600 working immigrants that leave our shores for Australia, every week. They happen to be the intuitive contributing types, not the bludging non-workers like we bring in!

[Ixion]

I still can't figure out, with all that 'evidence' against the cop, that the cop still won??!!

...

17 year old kid, in the eyes of the law is automatically wrong. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. Judge just sees a fine upstanding guardian of the law on one hand, some young kid on the other. Odds are he (the judge) is probably half senile anyway, so he doesn't hear half the evidence, and doesn't understand the half he does hear. Just a kid on one side, cop on the other. Guilty of everything.

[chanceyy]

Evidence doesn't necessarily make it into court ...

or makes it to court but is disregarded .. after all the cop is honorable .. and believable ..

no weight was given to the evidence of the eyewitnesses who could testify to the cop ute just prior to accident ... or to the expert testimony from the crash scene investigator (who also has done crash scene investigations for the police)

when blatent evidence is presented and disregarded how can anyone have faith in the justice system .... after all the police presented their own findings .. did not hear mention of an independant investigator from the prosectution side !!!!

[oldguy]

I still can't figure out, with all that 'evidence' against the cop, that the cop still won??!!

From what i have seen I'm still Pissed at how the police have gone about it.As I said earlyer,
Wow he hit a cop!!!! your always going to lose that one.

[Mental Trousers]

It was on tv so it must be true .......

Not defending the cops or judge, but tv shows are the single worst thing to base an opinion on. They have a wee habit of selectively leaving out bits to make the story look good. No way would I trust anything on a tv show.

[NordieBoy]

From the 'evidence' shown, the police holden rodeo was parked in the grass on the left hand side of the rode. He then (according to the evidence) went to make a U turn and turned into the path of the teen driver. The teen driver hit him in the drivers door at a 90degree angle. Definatly not a arse end.

Failure to stop within half the available distance.

[chanceyy]

It was on tv so it must be true .......

Not defending the cops or judge, but tv shows are the single worst thing to base an opinion on. They have a wee habit of selectively leaving out bits to make the story look good. No way would I trust anything on a tv show.


ahhh MT .. me either .. and yes the story was from the defense side . however kid could not remember accident, therefore this was based on the evidence .. and since the judge discounted or discredited both witnesses and evidence .. felt the story sure has merit

the kid was going to plead guilty from the start as he could not remember and thought he was probably in the wrong .. the evidence said otherwise and that is why he fought the charge

[Skyryder]

The Cop said that he stopped in the middle of the road and was doing a right hand turn and was crashed into my the young lad.


I'm having a stab in the dark here as I did not see the programme................but if you hit a car that is stationary, no matter where it is you're going be in the wrong. I am of the opinion that the cop knew this and that is why he said it. If I was the young mans solicitor I would be appealing the judges decision. I would also reqiure a demonstration of the turn and the vehicles lock specifiacations. Even if you have to perform a 3 point turn to be able complete the u-turn you drive as far to the opposite kerb or roadside as possible, so as to reverse on the same side of the road as you are now faceing. No one in their right mind stops in the middle of the road for any reason for a u turn. THE COP LIED and any decent solicitor should be able to prove that.


Skyryder

[Sketchy_Racer]

I know the cop lied.

He BLATANTLY lied.

I hope he lives with a burden on his back for the rest of his life. And it comes back and bites him in the arse.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Failure to stop within half the available distance.
It was a Stright piece of road. The cop pulled out into him.

[c4.]

True story of 17 yr old vs cop.

I was 17 YAY!! I wanted some ginger ale for my bourbon. I was sober. I borrowed my dad’s company car. It was current year model. I went to Dairy on Saturday afternoon. It was pissing down. Bought ginger ale.
I needed to turn right onto Pakuranga hiway(3 lanes both ways then), in the rain and in heavy traffic. After some time of indicating and waiting, a gap appeared.
I turned into center strip, car at front of gap accelerated to close gap.
I braked to stop. Car then slowed behind me and flashed head lights (was torrential rain).
I waved at kind motorist, indicating whole time, then pulled in.
Immediately hit flashing lights, and pulled me over.
I pulled over and got out in rain (always get out and meet).
Got sat in cops car, and fully verbally abused. Swore at, belittled and chastised. Didn’t I see him flash his lights???? Yes I said, in my driving training, drivers flashed lights to say I see you, and I believed you were considerately letting me in.
Cop charged me with inconsiderate use of motor vehicle. Court offense.
Horrors of Horrors, Mum came to court as well (in her own car as I had said NO 100 times). I refused to sit with her, and sat with the bad boys.
She ended up sitting next to the cop and talking to him for ages. As my surname is at the end of the alphabet (that’s how it worked in the 80s),
I was last up.
Towards the end the cop asked my Mum what she was at court for.
When she told him the story (mine, it WAS the truth) he got all guilty for being such an a hole.
When I faced the Judge and charge was read out, I got to tell what had happened, Cop then stood up and said that it may be true that his flashing lights at me caused me to believe that I was ok to pull into traffic (with rider that he had done it to tell me NOT to pull in front of him!)
Judge then gave me full dressing down for driving badly (Fu*k wasn’t there)
And told me that I was very lucky that the officer let the doubt of his actions surface because, and I quote “ I will always believe an officer of the law over you”. No charge. (1 day lost wages for court)
Moral, always take your Mum to court
I Love my Mum

[RT527]

so now it seems we have a precident set here!!!, you can now drive with undue care and attention and get away with it.
I was at an accident where someone pulled in front of a vehicle, and the person who pulled in front of the vehicle is going to be charged.
That must mean that the cop can be charged too, if only the kid could lay charges against the cop.
See hes screwed!!!.

[beyond]

In my experience, when a cop has an accident or causes an accident, you are going to be the lucky bugger at fault if you happen to be anywhere near it.

I'm not going to mention places or names here, but this happened to me about eight years ago and caused me much grief, $3,000 in lawyers costs, $600.00 in fines and nearly a loss of licence, but got convicted on careless use.

On a nice long corner with a view around and up, I overtook a double artic and was a longside it when a plain car (not known at the time) suddenly appeared. The only way he could have been there was to pull out from the side of the road. There was heaps of room. The artic was on the shoulder and my right wheels were just inside the white line, my side. Had my wife and daughter in the car so I wasn't going to be a dick was I?

The car approaching had plenty of room but once past went into the gravel well after we had gone by. My daughter was looking behind and wondered why they went off the road into the gravel as there was no need to have at all.

The guy loses control in the gravel and takes out some road markers.

Turns out he is a cop in a plain car, he drives off the road cos he was doing a u turn to give chase and loses control and I get done for running the bugger off the road. :gob: :angry: :angry: :angry:

[kickingzebra]

Been there done that too, as I say, if you are one of either Young, male or black, you are guilty. I got of my careless use charges because I had done a defensive driving course before the court appearance. I had booked it before the accident, but that didn't matter.

[scumdog]

Any comment without dropping yourself in it Scumdog?

No comment, the whole thing was news to me.

Just curious as to why no mention was made of the young guys speed prior to the crash, very often it's the first thing one side or the other brings up in their favour.

[_intense_]

Yes that is true, They probably didnt say that the teen was speeding and drunk. But im sure if he was the police would stamp their feet about it

DONT FORGET: HIGH ON METHAMPHETAMINE ASWELL!

There probably more going on here than what we are presented with.

[MSTRS]

Dont always beleive what you see on tv. NZ media is not governed by an independant authority like overseas, they only have the broadcasting standards authority which is quite biased for the media considering it is them who staff it.
Aha!!! And the PCA is staffed by...?

[emaN]

Do (some) cops lie?!

[madboy]

I saw most of the clip last night. Yep, looks like the cop was a plonker. But then it was on TV, and news reporting and truth are not usually synonymous so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume there is more to the story.

From my experience, I've been involved in a few cases where the cops have lied and I've got nailed. In saying that, in most of those cases I did deserve it. I've also been involved in the odd case where the cops didn't lie, I did, and the judge ruled in my favour on the basis that the officer may have been mistaken in the failing light conditions. And then the odd case where nobody lied. That was the exception rather than the rule.

My personal favourite is when I got charged with dangerous driving because the police car couldn't stop short of me. That was funny. Particularly the lies those two cops told in court over that. And everytime I see Mway Patrol and some poor bugger gets charged with failing to stop short after they've cruised around a corner to discover 3/4 of a car in a barrier in front of them. Yet for some reason the police in my case didn't realise the car in front of them - that they had asked to stop, was indicating to stop, had moved left to stop, and did stop - was actually going to stop! Pleaded down to careless driving, the writing was on the wall in that case.

[Hoon]

The video of this Closeup segment is on the TVNZ website.

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/tvone_minisite_story_skin/709615%3fformat=html

[Lou Girardin]

I didn't see it, but I'd like to know if it was dangerous or careless, and whether it was in front of a judge or JP's. If it was JP's - 'nough said. They'd believe a cop if he said day was night.
The defendant always has the right to appeal.

[chanceyy]

I didn't see it, but I'd like to know if it was dangerous or careless, and whether it was in front of a judge or JP's. If it was JP's - 'nough said. They'd believe a cop if he said day was night.
The defendant always has the right to appeal.

Kid was done for dangerous driving .. and I believe that they said a judge ruled on it .. can not remember any convo re JP

[Beemer]

Felt bloody sorry for the kid - with more experience the accident may not have happened but I certainly didn't believe the cop's version of events. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the police chase him for damages too, just to prove a point.

I used to think that everyone who appeared in court, for whatever reason, was guilty and deserved what they got. Until I got charged with going through a red light (it was orange and the guy BEHIND me braked when he saw the cop car and ended up 10ft into the intersection) and decided to defend it. Brought along copies of letters I had written to the police about people running red lights at the Haywards Hill lights but was told I was not allowed to present them as evidence as they "were not relevant" - what? I mistakenly thought they went towards proving I would not run a red light.

The prosecuting sergeant and the cop were running through their 'story' while we were waiting to go into court and the sergeant was a total arsehole. Basically his argument was that I had another think coming if I thought I had better judgement of the facts than a "well respected officer with 25 year's experience". I lost - not only the case but a day's pay - and then the prick of a cop (think his name was O'Sullivan) got a Queen's service medal a few months later!

I spoke to a few cops about it and they all said as soon as they heard it was him "you were stuffed - he even tickets other cops". One cop gave him a lift home one day and went through on an orange light and he was all for ticketing him until the guy said "do you want to fucking walk home?"

Yes, some people are guilty and some people lie, but I think in this instance the guy is looking less guilty by the minute. An independent accident assessor said it couldn't have happened the way the cop said so it makes me wonder if the story would have been the same if the 17 year old had been 37?

[Jantar]

Felt bloody sorry for the kid - with more experience the accident may not have happened but I certainly didn't believe the cop's version of events. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the police chase him for damages too, just to prove a point.


I haven't commented on this case up to now, as the details presented on this thread did not tie up with only incident I know of in the Alexandra area. However my wife did watch the item on the news and assures me it is the local incident. One of our friends was a witness, and he claims that his appearance in court was just a waste of time. The police are determined that the young guy must pay damages and the only way that can happen is if he is found to be the cause of the accident.

There are two sides to every argument, and the the Close Up TV show was very one sided against the police. The cop concerned is one who is known locally as being very tough. I believe he is HP who works mainly on heavy traffic, and he isn't the Central Otago cop who I've commented on previously. Nevertheless there may be an appeal, and more details may come out.

[Pixie]

I can see where the judge is coming from:
Better an innocent 17 year old is found at fault, than ANOTHER cop is found to be a fuckwit

[Pixie]

Failure to stop within half the available distance.
Of a car that is on the other side of the road and may turn in to your path?

Fuck off noddy

[JT.]

Of a car that is on the other side of the road and may turn in to your path?

Fuck off noddy

Agreed, there is no such law.

What it does state in the road code is on a road with no centre line you must be able to stop within half the viewable distance ahead of you. On a piece of road with a centre line you must be able to stop within the viewable distance ahead of you. A car pulling into your path from the side of the road is not a benchmark for your viewable distance.

Sure the media is biased but it does seem pretty hard to believe the outcome of the Police report.

The boy could appeal the decision but it would probably cost him more than what he's been dished out now but I would fight it on principle.

[Pixie]

In some future courtroom in NZ:

"If it please you Honour,I wish to present to the court this file of all the dodgy findings in favour of the police, as evidence that constable plod's testimony is of dubious veracity"

"I will not allow it"

"I have nothing else to say,your Honour"

"Do you have anything to say in mitigation?

"I was drunk as a judge,your Honour"

"Don't you mean 'drunk as a Lord'?

" I beg your pardon,...yes m'lud"

[idb]

Jeez youse guys.
Ya gotta have some perks in yer job!!!
I take the odd pen and Post-It Note home myself.

[idb]

It was on the front page of the Southland Times today.
I understand that the car belonged to his girlfriend who's father is a crash scene investigator.
He is putting a complaint into the PCA.
I can't remember whether they intend to appeal.

[Skyryder]

It was on the front page of the Southland Times today.
I understand that the car belonged to his girlfriend who's father is a crash scene investigator.
He is putting a complaint into the PCA.
I can't remember whether they intend to appeal.

At last someone who can take on the police at their own game. This should be interesting if it kicks off.

Skyryder

[scumdog]

At last someone who can take on the police at their own game. This should be interesting if it kicks off.

Skyryder


:zzzz: :zzzz: :zzzz: :wait:

[Skyryder]

:zzzz: :zzzz: :zzzz: :wait:

It got your attention.

Skyryder

[scumdog]

It got your attention.

Skyryder

I have attention???

[Skyryder]

I have attention???

Well if you don't know?? But on to the real subject. Did the cop lie or not?

Vehicle wheel lock specs would be interesting. Exact psition of vehicle prior to the commencement of the u-turn. And can the vehicle perfom the manouver without having to stop on the centre of the road. I would say that an 'expert' on this may provide some 'interesting' answers. But sadly this is going to come down to who has the most money for appealing decisions. One of the major problems in this country is that the Police and others have forgotten what they are here for. And that is to serve the public. In the case of this seventeen year old youth, the police, with the assistance of the judge, see their role to serve themselves.

Skyryder

[Jantar]

17 Jun 2008


http://www.odt.co.nz/the-regions/central-otago/9806/rehearing-case

Rehearing of case

By Rosie Manins on Tue, 17 Jun 2008

The rehearing of a case against an Alexandra man convicted in 2006 of crashing into a police car and injuring a police officer will be heard in the Alexandra District Court on Thursday.

In March 2006, Shane Te Ihorangi Cribb (then aged 18) was found guilty by Judge Stephen O'Driscoll of careless driving causing injury to Senior Constable Neil Robert Ford at Earnscleugh Rd on July 14, 2005.

At the Alexandra court on January 16 this year, Judge O'Driscoll ruled there should be a rehearing after hearing from defence lawyer Russell Checketts.

When convicted, Cribb was fined $600 and disqualified from driving for six months.

[Jantar]

Fri, 20 Jun 2008

http://www.odt.co.nz/the-regions/central-otago/10302/three-year-fight-over-teen-driver-vindicated

Three-year fight over; teen driver vindicated

By Diane Brown on Fri, 20 Jun 2008


Shane Cribb left the Alexandra District Court a happy man yesterday after what he described as three years of being "stuck in a time warp", but his supporters vowed to continue the fight for accountability.

There were tears and hugs from the more than 40 people who came to show their support.

Mr Cribb (20) said he was at last able to hold his head up with pride, after police offered no evidence at yesterday's re-hearing on a charge of careless driving causing injury, following an accident in Earnscleugh Rd near Alexandra on July 14, 2005.

"It took just three minutes [today] to wipe away three years of injustice," Mr Cribb said.

His lawyer would seek reimbursement, "but how do you work out what it costs for three years of one person's life?".

In March 2006, Mr Cribb was found guilty by Judge StephenO'Driscoll of careless driving causing injury to Senior Constable Neil Robert Ford in Earnscleugh Rd on July 14, 2005.

Mr Cribb's vehicle had collided with an unmarked police Holden Rodeo twin-cab utility vehicle which was turning right into a driveway.

Mr Cribb was disqualified from driving for six months and fined $600, which was paid back to him after the re-hearing was granted.

In court yesterday, prosecutor Sergeant Tom Scoullar, of Dunedin, said police offered no evidence.

Judge O'Driscoll then dismissed the charge.

In making an application for costs, counsel Russell Checketts, of Alexandra, said the case had cost Mr Cribb's supporters more than $25,000.

He presented a memorandum to the court requesting reimbursement and asked for the matter to be heard by Judge O'Driscoll at his next Alexandra court date, on September 25.

Police have 21 days to respond.

Mr Cribb maintained his innocence throughout the case and claimed the police officer made a U-turn in front of him, causing him to crash.

Steve and Denise Potter, whose daughter was Mr Cribb's girlfriend at the time, led the fight to clear Mr Cribb's name.

Yesterday, Mrs Potter said the family was calling for a full police investigation.

"It has taken us two and a-half years since the first trial to get this back to court, which is unbelievable and unacceptable."

The family had provided two witnesses and two crash investigators.

"The evidence we have had is incredible," she said.

"It is over in terms of getting Shane off the charges, but it won't be over because no-one else is being charged," she said.

The judge made a decision on the basis of information presented to him which was incorrect, and someone had to be made accountable for that, she said.

Mr Potter said it was not about the money.

He was disappointed there was no recognition by police in court that a mistake had been made.

There had been a suggestion of an internal police investigation, "but when you see how they do their external ones, it doesn't give you much faith".

He had made five separate complaints about the case over the past couple of years.

"We're not trying to undermine the integrity of police by continuing the fight. We need the police in our community. It's about the justice system and how it operates."

Inspector Phil Jones, of Queenstown, confirmed yesterday police had received a complaint relating to the case and had referred it to the Independent Police Complaints Authority.

Outside court, Mr Potter publicly thanked everyone who had supported Mr Cribb throughout the lengthy proceedings.

"It's been a very long journey and we couldn't have done it without your support and encouragement.

"We can now put this behind us and Shane can get on with remoulding his life.

"This would have been too hard a battle to fight on our own and we needed the community support," he said.

Mr Cribb said he had lost his job as a result of the crash and it had been difficult living from day to day, waiting to see what would happen next.

"I couldn't go anywhere or make any plans while we were fighting the conviction, as I would have had to come backwards and forwards."

Originally from Hamilton, Mr Cribb moved to Alexandra to live with his father and stepmother.

He was now considering returning to the North Island.

Mr Cribb's first priority was to get a good night's sleep.

"I haven't slept well at all, and I had no sleep last night worrying about today," he said.

[Jantar]

20 Sep 2008

http://www.odt.co.nz/the-regions/central-otago/23208/judge-critical-crash-investigation

Judge critical of crash investigation

By Rosie Manins on Sat, 20 Sep 2008

Alexandra man Shane Te Ihorangi Cribb has been awarded $17,900.45 costs for his defence of a dangerous driving causing injury charge, dismissed during a re-hearing in the Alexandra District Court in June.
And Judge Stephen O'Driscoll, who has dealt with the three-year-old case since it came before the courts, said the initial police investigation of the incident was "less than satisfactory" and "not in accordance with best practice". Mr Cribb (20) fought for three years to clear his name after his vehicle and another being driven by a police officer collided at Earnscleugh in 2005.

He last night told the Otago Daily Times he intended to apply for compensation.

Judge O'Driscoll yesterday issued his decision regarding an application by Mr Cribb for more than $25,000 costs incurred in defending himself against the charge.

"There was not an 'independent' investigation of the crash, nor was `independent' evidence provided to the court by the police at the defended hearing.

I am satisfied that the investigation of matters, post-conviction, has also been less than satisfactory," the judge said.

Police yesterday accepted the court decision.

Southern district road policing manager Inspector Andrew Burns said police would deal with the matter internally.

"In a situation like this, we do review what we've done and the mistakes we've made and learn from them and move forward."

Senior Constable Neil Robert Ford, the officer at the centre of the incident, is now a member of the police Southern area's Commercial Vehicle Investigation Unit (CVIU), and is based in Alexandra.

Insp Burns yesterday said Snr Const Ford's role with the CVIU included dealing with commercial vehicle drivers, log book entries, the weight of vehicles and large vehicle safety.

Snr Const Ford could not be contacted yesterday.

Mr Cribb's supporter Steve Potter said Judge O'Driscoll was not critical enough of the police involved in the case.

Mr Potter and wife Denise, both of Alexandra, paid for Mr Cribb's defence from the time he was charged.

The couple incurred costs of $17,900.45 for lawyers' fees and to pay for an independent expert's report on the incident.

"It was stressful because we had to put it all on the mortgage, although I always knew the truth would come out."

Direct costs to lawyers and a crash investigator were covered in Judge O'Driscoll's awarding of costs, but Mr Potter said more than 1000 hours of his and his wife's time was not. Mr Cribb said he would be "happy to go back to court" to apply for compensation.

"The judge has only awarded enough costs to pay Steve [Potter] back for lawyers' fees but we will fight for compensation on my behalf, as well as Steve's."

Mr Cribb, who last month admitted in the Alexandra District Court a charge of possessing cannabis and was fined $150 and ordered to pay court costs of $130, did not know how much compensation he would request from the police.

[Jantar]

12 Jul 2008

http://www.odt.co.nz/the-regions/central-otago/13000/police-investigating-evidence

Police investigating evidence

By Diane Brown on Sat, 12 Jul 2008


Some of the evidence presented in the Shane Cribb case in the Alexandra District Court in 2006 is being investigated by Police National Headquarters.

Mr Cribb was convicted of careless driving causing injury after his vehicle collided with a four-wheel-drive vehicle being driven by Senior Constable Neil Ford on Earnscleugh Rd at Alexandra in 2005.

His conviction was dismissed last month after a re-hearing was granted, and police did not present any evidence.

Inspector Andrew Burns, of Dunedin, has confirmed a decision to investigate discrepancies in the position of the four-wheel-drive had been made immediately after police decided not to offer any further evidence at the re-hearing.

Insp Burns said police had received new information that the position of the vehicle was in a different place than was reported at the time of the crash, based on the contents of the statement that was made at the time.

"Quite clearly the information we had at the start was why the charge was laid. New information from other witnesses has changed that, and if we had had that information at the time we would not have charged Mr Cribb," he said.

The Otago Daily Times has not yet been able to confirm the terms of reference for the investigation. Snr Const Ford could not be contacted yesterday.

[Madness]

Seems to be a lot of action in the Alexandra District Court (http://www.odt.co.nz/your-town/alexandra/67473/suppression-continued-central-perjury-case) at the moment.

[SixPackBack]

The interesting thing about police corruption is we never have to wait long for a repeat performance/:no:........kinda speaks volumes!

[MSTRS]

The cop was on the left hand side of the road and pulled a U turn in front of the oncoming teenager.

Two experts have stated that the cops statement that he was in the centre of the road indicating to pull in to the driveway was rubbish and that he must of been on the left verge, and also two eyewitnesses also confirmed they had seen the cop on the verge but the Judge dismissed all this evidence and took the word of the Cop.


...
Insp Burns said police had received new information that the position of the vehicle was in a different place than was reported at the time of the crash, based on the contents of the statement that was made at the time.

"Quite clearly the information we had at the start was why the charge was laid. New information from other witnesses has changed that, and if we had had that information at the time we would not have charged Mr Cribb," he said.
.....

Amazing. $1 each way, and you're covered, eh?

[Jantar]

The information is no longer suppressed:


A long-serving Alexandra police officer lied at a court hearing in 2006 because he wanted to avoid the consequences of telling the truth about a road accident he had six months earlier, a Dunedin jury was told yesterday.
Neil Robert Ford (56), a senior constable with the police Commercial Vehicle Inspection Unit, is on trial in the Dunedin District Court accused of committing perjury.

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/121077/policeman-lied-evidence

[MSTRS]

...a man with a dependable 30-year record with the MOT... What is it about cops with 30 years in doing u-turns, causing grief or death to others?

[pete376403]

Hopefully you were close enough, and alert enough to get the plate number and will forward that and all the relevant details to the PCA or whatever its called now.
Otherwise little point in grizzling about it here.

[scumdog]

The interesting thing about police corruption is we never have to wait long for a repeat performance/:no:........kinda speaks volumes!

Good thing it was totally whitewashed by the bosses when they discovered what had happened eh, eh eh?:shifty:

[duckonin]

What is it about cops with 30 years in doing u-turns, causing grief or death to others?

Russian roulete ! over the thirty years they got away with doing it, untill one day BANG.

[Patrick]

I know the cop lied.

He BLATANTLY lied.

I hope he lives with a burden on his back for the rest of his life. And it comes back and bites him in the arse.

Never a truer word...... Perjury even.... Bitten in arse all right. Wonder what bubba will do to his arse....?


Aha!!! And the PCA is staffed by...?

A judge, civillian investigators, ummmm..... Your point?

[Edbear]

Good thing it was totally whitewashed by the bosses when they discovered what had happened eh, eh eh?:shifty:

He musta missed that bit...:yes:

[Patrick]

He musta missed that bit...:yes:

A point missed all too regularly in soooooooo many forums.....

[MSTRS]

A judge, civillian investigators, ummmm..... Your point?

That's the IPCA. Nobody trusted the PCA...

I see a second cop involved has been charged/convicted of perverting the course of justice. He hid evidence that proved the first cop was lying.

[Jantar]

That's the IPCA. Nobody trusted the PCA...

I see a second cop involved has been charged/convicted of perverting the course of justice. He hid evidence that proved the first cop was lying.

She hid the evidence that T-bone Ford was lying by not disclosing what T-bone said at the time of the crash. She claims that she had originally "not felt comfortable disclosing what she had heard and had been bullied by her superior officer not to disclose the statement."
Not reported in the paper, but no longer suppressed is the identity of her superior at the time. This was Snr Sgt Brian Seymour, now retired. He was well know locally as a real bastard and was even known to walk around the New World car park looking for vehicles that were unwarranted and/or unregistered.

[ynot slow]

[This was Snr Sgt Brian Seymour, now retired. He was well know locally as a real bastard and was even known to walk around the New World car park looking for vehicles that were unwarranted and/or unregistered.

Used to be two MOT guys in Patea and Waverley years ago,they had quota sussed,was talking to a guy about cops in general,then another guy chirped in about the wanker cop from Waverley,the guy with me said that's my dad,but added he had been ticketed for speeding and agreed his dad was a wanker at times.

Interesting how the superiors seem to have retired when indescretions are known,almost like the norm.Feel sorry for the new cops who are told to turn a blind eye to other officers crap.

[Patrick]

Used to be two MOT guys in Patea and Waverley years ago,they had quota sussed,was talking to a guy about cops in general,then another guy chirped in about the wanker cop from Waverley,the guy with me said that's my dad,but added he had been ticketed for speeding and agreed his dad was a wanker at times.

Interesting how the superiors seem to have retired when indescretions are known,almost like the norm.Feel sorry for the new cops who are told to turn a blind eye to other officers crap.

That, or he got too old, perhaps?

[jim.cox]

This nasty piece of work caused an accident and then lied about it :grr:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4174122/Former-police-officer-jailed-for-perjury (http://Former police officer jailed for perjury)

Wet-Bus-Ticket Time: I Bet he's out in less than a year

[Genie]

He may well be be out in a year...but imagine how tough that year is going to be. I'd rather him than me!

But then again I wouldn't have been lying my arse off to cover my tracks, personal responsibilty.

[\m/]

He will probably be put in solitary confinement for his own protection, or they'll just lock him up with other crooked cops.

[nodrog]

Good god, do not let boristhebiter see this thread :facepalm:

Fanny

[Genie]

yeah , maybe, who would know but still, he'll lose a shit load of weight inside, he loses his freedom all for the sake of a lie, he'll go slightly mad and I bet he'll ask himself, "was it worth it? Glad he didn't kill anyone.

[Dave Lobster]

He'll be riding along footpaths on a pocket bike in thirteen months. :facepalm:

[White trash]

Is this everyone's new favourite smilet or what?:facepalm:

[nodrog]

Is this everyone's new favourite smilet or what?:facepalm:

Who knows? :facepalm:

Fanny

[scumdog]

Is this everyone's new favourite smilet or what?:facepalm:

I thought it was an indication of how they see the world...:blink:

[Mom]

Who knows? :facepalm:

Fanny

:wings: seems popular too :facepalm:

[oldrider]

This nasty piece of work caused an accident and then lied about it :grr:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4174122/Former-police-officer-jailed-for-perjury (http://Former police officer jailed for perjury)

Wet-Bus-Ticket Time: I Bet he's out in less than a year

Something wrong with that link! :yes:

[Jantar]

Try this one: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4174122/Former-police-officer-jailed-for-perjury

[KiWiP]

Something wrong with that link! :yes:

Click HERE. This one works (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4174122/Former-police-officer-jailed-for-perjury)

[oldrider]

Thanks, not anti cop but definitely anti those two people.....insufficient sentence for the pain they inflicted on that teenager and his parents!

Even worse (IMHO) for the pain they caused all of their fellow police officers and the general public at large!

Judges just don't get it do they, IMHO they are part of the problem rather than the solution! :facepalm:

[scumdog]

Even worse (IMHO) for the pain they caused all of their fellow police officers and the general public at large!

There's a few who think that too John....

[Milts]

Hopefully this will also somewhat alter the perception in court that the police officer's view of events is infallible and should be trusted regardless of any mountain of contradicting evidence or witnesses.

And although a little over two years doesn't seem like a lot of time, this will also have completely destroyed his career, pension plans... etc.

[Mom]

I actually felt a bit sorry for the bloke that had to front the cameras tonight. He had no way of answering questions without pissing his own staff or the general public off. I think he did it very well.

Terrible thing to have happened, and thankfully it is not something that happens all the time in NZ.

[Jantar]

...... and thankfully it is not something that happens all the time in NZ.
Most of the police in New Zealand do an outstanding job. Unfortunately, just as in any profession, there are a few that give a bad name to the many. At the time that this occured Alexandra was going through a bad spell with traffic policing. It was so bad that one senior cop I know (used to be Scummies boss) turned down a promotion to Alexandra because, as he put it, he would either have to be an arsehole and earn as bad a reputation as the previous senior, or have poorer traffic stats.

Well, one of those bad cops is now out of circulation. Its unfortunate that the young police woman got caught up in this as she was simply following her senior's instructions, but she gets to be a scapegoat.

[Toaster]

I actually felt a bit sorry for the bloke that had to front the cameras tonight. He had no way of answering questions without pissing his own staff or the general public off. I think he did it very well.

Terrible thing to have happened, and thankfully it is not something that happens all the time in NZ.

Well that is why he is paid the big bucks....

[Toaster]

Most of the police in New Zealand do an outstanding job. Unfortunately, just as in any profession, there are a few that give a bad name to the many. At the time that this occured Alexandra was going through a bad spell with traffic policing. It was so bad that one senior cop I know (used to be Scummies boss) turned down a promotion to Alexandra because, as he put it, he would either have to be an arsehole and earn as bad a reputation as the previous senior, or have poorer traffic stats.

Well, one of those bad cops is now out of circulation. Its unfortunate that the young police woman got caught up in this as she was simply following her senior's instructions, but she gets to be a scapegoat.

Well said. Although all constables need to stand up and do the right thing regardless of pressure from anyone in the job. Swaying to peer or supervisory pressure is no defence.

[far queue]

... Its unfortunate that the young police woman got caught up in this as she was simply following her senior's instructions, but she gets to be a scapegoat.The Germans tried the "I vas only following orders" line too and it didn't wash for them either! She made her choices and will now reap the consequences of them.

I have to agree with Winstons sentiments earlier also that unfortunately there's a lot of good cops out there that will be tarred by the actions of those involved in this incident. No doubt the good guys jobs will be made a little more difficult by the distrust that this will cast upon them all - deserved or not.

[Jantar]

The Germans tried the "I vas only following orders" line too and it didn't wash for them either! She made her choices and will now reap the consequences of them.....
Yes, she withheld information, but she did ask for an independant investigation, and was turned down.

[far queue]

... but she did ask for an independant investigation ...Which would never have been required had she just been honest in the first place.

[Jantar]

And hence the very reason that she was convicted.

[Banditbandit]

Good Job .. two more people we can do wthout in the police force have gone ...

[BoristheBiter]

Good god, do not let boristhebiter see this thread :facepalm:

Fanny

Sorry sister twat oops i mean aunt fanny, i saw this thread back in may when it first started.

You are a bit late on this.

[rickstv]

I wonder how this would have all panned out if the young guy had died at the side of the road.

The cop may still have had his job.
Rick.

[MSTRS]

I wonder how this would have all panned out if the young guy had died at the side of the road.

The cop may still have had his job.
Rick.

Good point. Witnesses can be damned inconvenient, eh?

[kit]

Fantastic Outcome..... Good to see he got what he deserved, 2yrs seems a bit minimal for the amount of yrs he has been denying he was in the wrong.

[Jantar]

Sorry sister twat oops i mean aunt fanny, i saw this thread back in may when it first started.

You are a bit late on this.
That's May 2006. 3 years before you joined this site? Long time lurker perhaps?

[Max Preload]

I have to agree with Winstons sentiments earlier also that unfortunately there's a lot of good cops out there that will be tarred by the actions of those involved in this incident.But until the 'good cops' start actively participating in the ejection of the bad cops, they deserve all the tarring they get.

[BoristheBiter]

But until the 'good cops' start actively participating in the ejection of the bad cops, they deserve all the tarring they get.

A bit like bikers.

[BoristheBiter]

That's May 2006. 3 years before you joined this site? Long time lurker perhaps?

Yep
Long time lurker, first time troller.

[Max Preload]

A bit like bikers.Bikers all belong to an organisation with a heirarchy and procedures to deal with errant members not following their sworn oath? Fuck. That's the first I've heard of it! Why didn't someone tell me sooner? :facepalm:

[Banditbandit]

Bikers all belong to an organisation with a heirarchy and procedures to deal with errant members not following their sworn oath? Fuck. That's the first I've heard of it! Why didn't someone tell me sooner? :facepalm:

Yeah mate. It came as a surprise to me too ... didn't know I was responsible to someone else ...

Fuck that for a joke ..

[Max Preload]

Yeah mate. It came as a surprise to me too ... didn't know I was responsible to someone else ...

Fuck that for a joke ..Calm the fuck down. I outrank you! Or do I? Hmmmm:blink:

[Banditbandit]

Calm the fuck down. I outrank you! Or do I? Hmmmm:blink:

I refuse to recognise any false authority you think you may have ... :angry:

[Genie]

That's May 2006. 3 years before you joined this site? Long time lurker perhaps?

Oh,this was has been merged from a newer one just yesterday....so hard to keep up these days.:shutup:

[Mom]

Oh,this was has been merged from a newer one just yesterday....so hard to keep up these days.:shutup:

I have had this thread on subscribe for years, this is not news to us oldies :pinch:

Dare you to cal me old :lol: Seriously though, this issue is not news, the outcome is what we have been waiting for. It (the outcome) wont be OK for many, it will be closure for others. It will also be a crock of shit and contentious for some, and time to move forward for others.