A licence to exceed 100km/h

[Felicks]

Recently on a tour of the South Island, part of which went through the McKenzie country, my brother in law and I came up with the following idea. (I mentioned it briefly in a short post elsewehere but thought it would be worth it's own thread.) The McKenzie Coutry for those that don't know has some pretty long and open straights - a tad boring at 100km/h.

I reckon we should be able to BUY a temporary licence to exceed 100km/h!

The licence would NOT be an exemption to ride like an idiot just simply to allow motorcyclists to travel up to 140 - 150km/h something like that, on selected open roads during tours etc.

Despite the usual moan and groan from locals, I understand NZ has pretty good roads overall with plenty of variation after travelling only a short distance. I think people from overseas would flock here if they knew they could travel good roads at a good speed legally, even if they had to pay some $$ for the pleasure.

The argument? At the end of the day, a good proportion on bikers exceed the maximum limit anyway. The Government also gets nothing for that unless they get caught and a ticket issued! If a licence was granted - they'd get some money every time!! Governments always want money don't they.

What do people think - should we float that one to LTNZ at some point - or is it gonna sink big time? Me thinks the later but I still like the idea. :yes:

[kickingzebra]

Brilliant idea all right, but you know our nanny state. If the pressure is kept on speed limits evenly for several elections we may be able to see something done.
I always liked the idea of testing people to speed proficiency, IE if one is capable of travelling at higher speeds, they should be allowed dispensation to do so, but conversly, if someone is incapable of travelling at high speeds, they are approprately censured. Cost of setup, and adequate polcing would be phenominal, besides which, if granny drivers where restricted to 80 km, it would hardly speed the highways up.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Nope sorry will never happen.

It would be super cool, But it is Politically inccorect to exceed 100kph Full Stop.

[Burger]

If you do it for bikes, then you have to do it for cars, which is where it gets scary.

The thing with riding a bike is that everything is in your hands, there is no safety margin. If you choose to speed then your life is quite literally in your hands (usually your right hand). Cars offer a margin of error, you have protection, which creates a sense of security, which creates lapses in judgement.

Such a law would be a nightmare to manage. How would you feel if your wife was wiped out on her scooter and killed, by a boyracer who was legally travelling at 140k+ ?

Speed limits are there to cater for the lowest common denominator, people who cannot drive defensivley. It's a limit which has been accepted by society in order to both keep the pleasure and convenience of driving, and keep it sensible.

Speed doesn't kill, stupidity does. Usually it's the stupid decision to speed outside the limits of your riding/driving and the lack of ability to forsee events.

So no, I do not agree that it would be a good idea :)

[Jantar]

In general I like the idea, but I would rather take it one step further and rate individual vehicles with a maximum legal speed, then take kickingzebra's idea and test riders/drivers ability to see what grade of licence they qualify for.

However on the down side with any of these graduated speed ideas: They would be almost impossible to police. Take two riders, both on GSXRs travelling at 140 kmh. One is licenced to ride at that speed and one is not. How is the poor cop going to know? Does he stop them both and piss off the one who is legal? Or does he leave both of them alone, just to have the less experienced rider lose it in a sudden side wind gust? There is no way he is going to be able to tell who is legal and who isn't at those speeds.

[Lord Derosso]

I do not at all like the idea of coming off a bike at more than 70kph, which is about the fastest its happened to me twice over the years. Also some of us remember when the speed limit was only 80kph and theres talk of bringing it back I believe. Hence perhaps the introduction INITIALLY of 30kph speed zones in city CBD's.. Local paper hinted today in a report that these new zones may be extended to include other areas. Do you know how hard it is to keep below 30kph in 2th gear?? I see alleyways fill of speed cameras ready to make heaps of revenue in the name of saving motorists going over the dreaded 30kph speed limit and killing themselves and/or any idiot whom steps in their way. They certainly wont hear them coming at that speed. Bugger the buses whom caused all this.

[Ixion]

But why should I be put at risk because you can afford a special licence? Without any proof your your ability ?

If one were to get complicated about speed limits , I would prefer bands, with the onus changing for each band.

So, under 80kph (all this on the open road) , as at present. You can't get a speeding ticket, per se under that speed.

80 to 120kph you normally will be "safe" , but you CAN get a ticket, but it is incumbent upon the cop to show some special reason why the speed was unsafe. call it a charge of inappropriate speed. So, normally you would be safe, but under special circumstances you could still be charged with inapproriate speed. The circumstances would need to be shown to be "special", but could be quite braod and cumulative. It was night, the roads were wet, visibility was poor, traffic was heavy, the driver young and inexperienced, etc.

120-160 kph you can expect a ticket. But, you may present evidence to show that , under the special circumstances, the speed was NOT inappropriate. Which might include some form of advanced drivers licence. Visibility was good, the road straight and wide, no other traffic, good conditions, an advanced driver's licence etc.

Will never happen though, no complex scheme will. It is all too hard for the powers that be .

[Lord Derosso]

What would roads look like if everyone was trying to go at different speeds ? You would have some cars doing 80 and some doing 120. Now what do the guys wanting to do 120 have to do to keep at that speed?? besides the obivious road rage factor, Boy.... I would hate to be riding anything less than a 1000cc in that situation. But I also agree that there are some roads where at least 120kmph COULD be allowed. We have some very good roads off SH's which people use as shortcuts which are truely open roads and lets face it, most of us dont keep exactly to 100 or 110kmph when on a long tour and on an empty open road on a nice day. What stuffs you in the end is those plains clothed policecars with front facing speed cameras...

[SwanTiger]

But why should I be put at risk because you can afford a special licence? Without any proof your your ability ?

If one were to get complicated about speed limits , I would prefer bands, with the onus changing for each band.

So, under 80kph (all this on the open road) , as at present. You can't get a speeding ticket, per se under that speed.

80 to 120kph you normally will be "safe" , but you CAN get a ticket, but it is incumbent upon the cop to show some special reason why the speed was unsafe. call it a charge of inappropriate speed. So, normally you would be safe, but under special circumstances you could still be charged with inapproriate speed. The circumstances would need to be shown to be "special", but could be quite braod and cumulative. It was night, the roads were wet, visibility was poor, traffic was heavy, the driver young and inexperienced, etc.

120-160 kph you can expect a ticket. But, you may present evidence to show that , under the special circumstances, the speed was NOT inappropriate. Which might include some form of advanced drivers licence. Visibility was good, the road straight and wide, no other traffic, good conditions, an advanced driver's licence etc.

Will never happen though, no complex scheme will. It is all too hard for the powers that be .

I quite enjoyed reading that Ixion, it almost felt like a good novel.

As for the temporary license, I'd hate to see it fall into the hands of the wrong people, which it would.

As for Mr. Ixion's representation of a better world, I quite like the idea.

100kmp/h - 120kmp/h is a very reasonable speed.

Most cars only do an average speed of 80kmp/h anyway so it works.

Pity it'll never happen.

[Ixion]

What would roads look like if everyone was trying to go at different speeds ? You would have some cars doing 80 and some doing 120. ,,.

You have that already. Half the traffic is people pushing the existing limit to 115-120. The other half are the Interchangeable Mabels doddering along at 80, so as to make certain they don't inadvertently exceed the speed limit.

It would just mean that it would be easier for the fast traffic to overtake the slow ones.

[Lord Derosso]

Yeh... it would work if we had four lane motorways to everywhere but I am totally amazed at how bad the driving is on our roads now compared to seven years ago. I take great care in the city and on the motorways.... just let the speeders go pass me. I think our first priority is to get better roads then perhaps they might look at having areas of higher speed. After all modern cars also find 100kmph slow, its just that our road maintenance is at least a decade behind and needs to catch up.

[sAsLEX]

80 to 120kph you normally will be "safe" , but you CAN get a ticket, but it is incumbent upon the cop to show some special reason why the speed was unsafe. call it a charge of inappropriate speed. So, normally you would be safe, but under special circumstances you could still be charged with inapproriate speed. The circumstances would need to be shown to be "special", but could be quite braod and cumulative. It was night, the roads were wet, visibility was poor, traffic was heavy, the driver young and inexperienced, etc.


Special Circumstances include the following :

You are a male
You are a 15-25 year old male
wrong time of month - female cop
nice sunny day and cop stuck in car

[scumdog]

Recently on a tour of the South Island, part of which went through the McKenzie country, my brother in law and I came up with the following idea. (I mentioned it briefly in a short post elsewehere but thought it would be worth it's own thread.) The McKenzie Coutry for those that don't know has some pretty long and open straights - a tad boring at 100km/h.
I:

Those straights use to be pretty good for top-end 'test' runs way back in the '70's before speed limits were invented there (It was the Nevada of NZ).:innocent:

Mt Cook turn-off back to Twizel was a favourite:first:

Reckon I near got a sonic boom from one of my vehicles once.:doobey:

[_intense_]

Wow what a can of worms, Ixion i like your thoughts mate well put.
Living in Timaru i quite often "nip round the lakes" on a nice day off, and the roads (waitaki valley) are open, and in good conditions 140 is wht i sit on, and its safe, pesonally, if theres traffic i drop it to 115 as soon as i see a car (keeps me safe(ish) from a ticket to) But of course evry one ruides differently.

Im a young-un 23, and in the "highrisk" bracket, yet having so much power on hand has taught me great respect for what a bike can do, and from time to time i like to hoon, but i take great cares to do it WHEN AND WHERE I AM NOT ENDANGERING ANYONE ELSE BUT ME. the problem is, that not every one has such"conservative' speeding philosophy, (waffling now) so whats to stop reckless speeders getting the exemption, whilst the ppl who take the care to take care pay the same for the privelage.

IMO you cant realisticly introduce something along these lines because its to vague in its nature, and allows people who aren't necessarily skilled/mature (and i dont mean physical age) enough not to misuse the privelage.

Doing track days arent an answer for the speed fix either, they dont present the same joys/challenges that a long ride on an ever changing road can present.

I think the best solution to allowing a legal (and therefore taxable) system of allowing a faster speed limit for select motorists would be to have a test which basically requires godly bike handling skills, tested over a couple of days , covering every possibkle condition, scenario non the road, accident prevention, anticipating oncoming hazzards etcetc. and i dont just mean a scratchie test. and the gear you r ride must also be up to the same standard. ie johns old drum brake equipped hand shift rusty '87 kawaondazuki wont be a suitable candidate, but say if he did it on an '02 cbr600 F4i.... :blip:

well thats my 83 cents worth, any comeback on this? i curiouse to see other peoples ideas :yes:

[bobsmith]

Well if you ask me.... never since our country is run by those who "Danny Craine" would call "nanzi panzies"

[MSTRS]

Good idea in principal. It would fall down in the details. Only realistic scenario is to bump the max. speed for bikes only:scooter:

[Insanity_rules]

I rode quite a bit in germany and the autobahns work great. Motorcycle accidents were few but usually fatal. Wish we had roads like that here but with our crap tarmac and corners it would be impossible.

[Ixion]

Special Circumstances include the following :

You are a male
You are a 15-25 year old male
wrong time of month - female cop
nice sunny day and cop stuck in car


15 -25 year old male would be valid.

I think you could list the criteria :


Poor visibility (or night)
Heavy traffic
Wet/poor road surface
Driver under 25
Driver breaching licence conditions
Vehicle defective/no WoF
Travelling faster than traffic flow
Learner/restricted licence holder
Other high risk road users (eg children,animals) present
Driver has history of offences.

That's 10. So you could make a simple matrix. Takes any "personal" element out of it. Less than 2 hazards present, very unliely to get a ticket. More than 5 present , very likely.

Good clear road, no other traffic, experienced driver good car - no probs.

Pissing with rain, 11pm at night, heavy traffic doing 50kph, and you're dodging in and out of it, in your beat up old Mazda 323 , with your mates, on your restricted , you're 17 years old: and you get a ticket for inappropriate speed for doing 81kph on the open road. Jolly good too.

And, the converse of course as a defence against a ticket for over 120kph. Experienced driver, advanced licence, good car/bike no other traffic, good road and visibility; good defence.

Easy to do. Just reckon up the hazard factors, and make your judgement. Cop can do the same.

Reason I like this approach is it gets away form the "magic number" - where under 100kph you are always "safe", over 100kph is always "dangerous". Makes people (and cops) consider the real safety or danger of a given speed.

EDIT: If you get a ticket the cop has to list on it the hazard factors that he reckons warrant the ticket.

[SPman]

Prima facie 100 k limit - a bit like the LSZ, only faster. They used to have a PF 60mph limit in NSW, way back in the old days - it always seemed more sensible to me. Speed limit a nominal limit but, dependant on circumstances, etc,etc......speeds in excess of the limit deemed acceptable.
Looks like it comes back to that thing - "discretion".......that which is not in a lot of evidence of late.........:whistle:

[mdb]

For a system like this to be fair, any charge would need to be a percentage of your income!

[Lou Girardin]

I've got one.
It cost me $500 from the Confederation of Northern Tribes.
NZ's true Government.

[Motu]

Did you get a complimentary dog fight ticket with that?

[ghost]

I've got one.
It cost me $500 from the Confederation of Northern Tribes.
NZ's true Government.

Didn't the cheifs later sign the treaty of waitangi, thereby voiding the former confederation?

Anyway, 140kpH licence, accredited driving course, medical, clean licence, over 25, bike / car "wof" every 3 months, different plates for easy ident on the road by enforcement, open road, good conditions only.... blah blah

whats the chances?

[sefer]

You need to be careful around that area, I use to live down Mt Cook and found that while there aren't that many cops (well there are a enough, but it's a huge area to cover), the local coppers are very good at catching you out, even when you know the area quite well :)

[Kickaha]

The McKenzie Coutry for those that don't know has some pretty long and open straights - a tad boring at 100km/h.


They're not even that exciting at twice that:blip:

[Coyote]

It's a good idea, in Theory

Communism is a good idea, in Theory

[Ixion]

It's a good idea, in Theory

Communism is a good idea, in Theory

Communism is a good idea. Done. Welcome, comrade.

[Felicks]

.... just let the speeders go pass me. I think our first priority is to get better roads then perhaps they might look at having areas of higher speed. After all modern cars also find 100kmph slow, its just that our road maintenance is at least a decade behind and needs to catch up.

Just so long as your idea (and those who currently design / implement maintenance changes), doesn't include removing every last corner, chicane sudden rise/drops etc that make current roads fun.

I would hate to think how many nice "bike roads" in NZ have been wrecked by roading gangs straightening them out just so incompetant cage drivers can get from A to B without coming to grief.

Sure those "narly bits" can be a bit hair raising for grannys and someone whose half asleep but at the end of the day, those things make riding on 2 wheels bloody great fun.

If someone ever decides to put a tunnel through the hill to Akaroa - I'll make a point of hunting him/her down personally... :angry:

[scumdog]

They're not even that exciting at twice that:blip:


Too true - see my earlier post on that subject on this thread.:blip:

[scumdog]

Didn't the cheifs later sign the treaty of waitangi, thereby voiding the former confederation?

Anyway, 140kpH licence, accredited driving course, medical, clean licence, over 25, bike / car "wof" every 3 months, different plates for easy ident on the road by enforcement, open road, good conditions only.... blah blah

whats the chances?

Got one of those licences - and get paid to do it!!

[bigbadwolf]

It's a good idea, in Theory

Communism is a good idea, in Theory

Studies have been done on speed limits. If you have a look at this report (http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/sl-irrel.html), undertaken by a highway research center in the States, it shows that over a period of five years, researchers monitored motorist response to speed limits at 227 different locations around the United States. First, motorist speeds were measured at all the locations. Next, the speed limits were raised on some roads and lowered on others while yet others remained the same. The results? Speeds did not change. People continued to drive at speeds that they felt were comfortable and safe.

This study also measured the relationship of speed limit changes and accident frequency. As you might expect, if speeds didn't change much, neither did accident rates. However, in those instances where speed limits were raised, there was a slight reduction in accidents.


Maybe I'll write a letter to Comrade Helen about it and see what she thinks...

[Skyryder]

For a system like this to be fair, any charge would need to be a percentage of your income!

Oddly enough I have argued this in relation to speeding fines. But now that I ride I've changed my mind.:yes: :rofl: :rofl:

[thehovel]

:rockon: There is a licence that you can get which allows you to ride at the limits of you ability with NO CHANCE OF GETTING A TICKET . This licence is readily available (at a small charge of cause). The licence is called a track licence and the officials even supply special roads with no cages allowed and all vehicles traveling in the same direction. With the number doing the Coro Loop at regular intervals it all most is a track.
Regards Richard

[Speedracer]

Oddly enough I have argued this in relation to speeding fines. But now that I ride I've changed my mind.:yes: :rofl: :rofl:

Fines are proportionate to income.... As a student I got pulled over a few times and got no fines

I tell a cop that I'm on my way to start my new job in another city and I get a fine. f#$^


I think there shouldn't be a speed limit - then people will travel at what they think is a safe speed. The only problem with this theory is that not everyone has good judgement.
So therefore the govt has to decide for us all.

By the way I take it everyone who advocates 'you must be over 25' is over 25?

[mstriumph]

................So therefore the govt has to decide for us all........................



that is, without doubt, the SCARIEST thing anyone has ever said to me :baby:

[Lou Girardin]

Communism is a good idea. Done. Welcome, comrade.

As long as I too can be more equal than others.

[slimjim]

:corn: what buy a temp speed ticket,:crybaby: a fuck where's the freedom to do what you wish to do,, shit if me grandfather had to buy a speed cert, fuck grandma would have driving the model t herself:cool: man too much correctness in some poeples thinking,, oo might run for goverment one day

[Quartida]

I was going to start another thread about a similar topic, but this has proved the perfect opening into the following question.

Your average bike can go around corners a lot faster than your average car. Your average truck can not.

Your average bike is more manoeuverable than your average car. Your average truck is not.

Your average bike-on-car is going to do less damage to a car than your average car-on-car.

Your average truck-on-car is literally a truck ON car.

So why is it that trucks are forced to drive at a lower level on open roads (by law) than your average car, but your average motorcycle is not allowed to drive more?

If we can impose different "Open Road" speed limits for different vehicles presently, then what is to stop us changing it to include other vehicles, i.e. bikes.

So, I have to disagree with those who say the current speed limit is one-fits-all. It's not, and the government knows it. So why not just make it that little bit more realistic?

[mstriumph]

come to west aus. ...... where you can get a PERMANENT licence to exceed 100 km/h :yes:

[Biohazard]

Well if you ask me.... never since our country is run by those who "Danny Craine" would call "nanzi panzies"

Yup, i call em "left wing namby pambies".

Go fast,just dont get caught !!!

[Biohazard]

:corn: what buy a temp speed ticket,:crybaby: a fuck where's the freedom to do what you wish to do,, shit if me grandfather had to buy a speed cert, fuck grandma would have driving the model t herself:cool: man too much correctness in some poeples thinking,, oo might run for goverment one day

I'll join ya :blip:

[MWVT]

I reckon, none of us would enjoy going fast as much as we do if we were allowed to. All you anti establishment types. What do you think??

[mstriumph]

interesting and disturbing though MWVT

the answer is ............. a definate 'mebbe'


[but then i'm much more sedate than some of you lot :yes: ]

[Biohazard]

I reckon, none of us would enjoy going fast as much as we do if we were allowed to. All you anti establishment types. What do you think??

All i can say is "let me test ya theory"

[Felicks]

Having started this thread with an abstract view on exceeding 100, I'll take this opportunity to provide the following caution.

**Akaroa GP riders - be wary**

Residents on SHW 75 particularly Lake Forsyth area, have complained to authorities about the speeds of bikers during weekends in recent months. As a result, Police are going to target the road more heavily than usual until the "problem goes away..." Obviously they have to be seen to be doing something about the issue.

Although winter is now effectively here (certainly has arrived today - man its cold), and biker numbers are likely to drop a bit, take it easy - otherwise the fun that we all currently enjoy will become little more than cop hopping till we get to our respective destinations.

This is not a rumour so spread the word...and hopefully the problem will sort itself out.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Well if you ask me.... never since our country is run by those who "Danny Craine" would call "nanzi panzies"

I have an erection. Thats a good sign


Denny Crane.

I have a couple of his lawyer quotes on my notice board including:

the practice of law is all about money. I have it. You dont. I'll win.


Denny rules.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.

[Swoop]

**Akaroa GP riders - be wary**

Residents on SHW 75 particularly Lake Forsyth area, have complained to authorities about the speeds of bikers during weekends in recent months. As a result, Police are going to target the road more heavily than usual until the "problem goes away..." Obviously they have to be seen to be doing something about the issue.
This is not a rumour so spread the word...and hopefully the problem will sort itself out.
More "designated decoys" to lure out the ecilops perhaps???:shifty:

[Felicks]

Decoys....Ecilops.....? :( You've lost me I'm afraid..

[Ixion]

Ms Crashe is the official KB Designated Decoy for Auckland. I do not know if there is one for Christchurch

[Pixie]

In Italy, it is possible to get an exempt license.
On a 60 Minutes item on Lambourghini, the test driver, had such a license.
Sensible people,the Italians

[Pixie]

but you CAN get a ticket, but it is incumbent upon the cop to show some special reason why the speed was unsafe.
In Canada, some years ago , a formula 1 driver ( can't remember which) was booked for doing over 200 kph on a deserted motorway,in the early hours of the morning.
In court the judge agreed that the driver's skill and the road conditions meant that the speed was not unsafe,and let him off with no penalty.
Sensible people, the Canayjins

[scumdog]

In Italy, it is possible to get an exempt license.
On a 60 Minutes item on Lambourghini, the test driver, had such a license.
Sensible people,the Italians

So when you go past their version of Highway Patrol at 200kph+ do you hold this special licence out the window so they can see you have the 'special' licence?:innocent:

Or is it produced after you get pulled up?
How do they know you have one otherwise?

[Lou Girardin]

In Italy, it is possible to get an exempt license.
On a 60 Minutes item on Lambourghini, the test driver, had such a license.
Sensible people,the Italians

Otherwise known as bribing the local Police chief.

[Lou Girardin]

So when you go past their version of Highway Patrol at 200kph+ do you hold this special licence out the window so they can see you have the 'special' licence?:innocent:

Or is it produced after you get pulled up?
How do they know you have one otherwise?

They're Italian, if you come up behind them in a supercar at 200+ they'll wave you to go faster.
There's more to life than speed limits, they're more concerned whether Armani or Prada will design their new uniforms.

[scumdog]

In Canada, some years ago , a formula 1 driver ( can't remember which) was booked for doing over 200 kph on a deserted motorway,in the early hours of the morning.
In court the judge agreed that the driver's skill and the road conditions meant that the speed was not unsafe,and let him off with no penalty.
Sensible people, the Canayjins


Considering the 'standard profile' of a Canadian road death is a young male in a pick-up truck, not wearing a seatbelt with a good liklihood of alcohol being involved (true!) I'm not surprised at that outcome.

Nothing like letting a judge decide, saves arguements.

And they ALWAYS make the right decision. (roll in the Tuis ad.)

[jonbuoy]

They're Italian, if you come up behind them in a supercar at 200+ they'll wave you to go faster.
There's more to life than speed limits, they're more concerned whether Armani or Prada will design their new uniforms.

And encourage you to pop a wheelie if your on a Duke'

[Felicks]

Of course you'd have to stop (although at that speed I doubt you'd be caught so I'm guessing the speed limit would be considerably less...) but I'd be grinning ear to ear as I pulled out that exemption to show him!