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Crasherfromwayback
5th May 2006, 01:08
Sorry if this has been suggested here already.
Really hard work to go thru every thread and post here relating to stuff you (I) want to dribble on about before you start.
So, provided it's a new idea...do you think that with the price of fuel, the problems we have with traffic congestion and polution, we should look at starting a nation wide petition regarding the amount of acc levy's etc we pay in our registration costs as motorcyclists?
Isn't it time we tried to get the 'Greenies' and the rest on our side?
If we all got friends (riders or not) to sign up and help, and with the help of sites like this, could we not make a big enough noise?
Isn't it time this so called 'peoples govt' got pro-active about the enviroment it so fiercly states it's trying to protect?
Is now not the perfect time to show the morons that don't already know that bikes are the future?
Sorry in advance if this has been done to death.
CFWB

SwanTiger
5th May 2006, 01:23
You have spirit young jedi.

There is a place for you to exhibit and hone these jedi forces.

http://www.bronz.org.nz/

Crasherfromwayback
5th May 2006, 01:35
No spirit tonight my good man....just Steinlarger and a good pinot!
Cheers for the tip though!!!

Big Dave
5th May 2006, 02:16
We'll have an updated and revised site online next week too.

Crasherfromwayback
5th May 2006, 02:19
Way cool....don't you think we can all get this off the ground?

Dafe
5th May 2006, 05:59
The apparant reason behind such high ACC levies upon motorcyclists, is due to the cost of Skin Grafting which is predominanty a motorcyclists injury.

What farks me off the most is seeing so many idiots still riding around with exposed skin. They're the reason we pay so much.

Personally, I'd like to see indivuals have to cover skin graft costs themselves! You promote it - You pay for it!

It would be good to try and obtain the figures and see how much our ACC levies amount to vs the annual costs of skin grafting due to motorcycle accidents.

I'm hearing ya Pete, something needs to be done. These figures would be a good start.

Lou Girardin
5th May 2006, 08:15
And while we're at it, we should lobby for full approved safety gear to be a mandatory requirement. Including flouro vests.
And gaitors.

Squeak the Rat
5th May 2006, 08:55
See this thread http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=28806 Evidently a bike crash costs the government less than a car crash..... Yet another reason to pay less.



No spirit tonight my good man....just Steinlarger and a good pinot!
Cheers for the tip though!!!
Steiny AND Pinot? I bet your suffering this morning....

We'll have an updated and revised site online next week too.
Looking forward to it - can you post in the General Bike Ravings section when it's ready?

Crasherfromwayback
5th May 2006, 13:10
it's taken me years to get the balance just right mate....not enough Steinie, you wake up with a mouth like the bottom of a bird cage....too much and you risk wetting the bed.
Practice makes prefect.

Crasherfromwayback
5th May 2006, 13:10
perfect....see, no hangover

Ixion
5th May 2006, 13:42
Words, words, words, as the Bard was wont to say after a trying time with Mrs Bard each month.

Petition all you wish, but until the crash statistics change ACC will always have the perfect answer. "You cost us more, therefore you pay more"

Deeds are what's needed. Specifically, less crashing!

What MIGHT have a chance is splitting out scooters and smaller bikes. Course, that might mean 1000s pay $1000 a year.

Crasherfromwayback
5th May 2006, 13:53
Well seeing as around 80% of motorcycle accidents are caused by factors beyond our control (blind car drivers, loose gravel un-marked blah blah), it would seem only too fair that said blind drivers paid the higher levys!

Ixion
5th May 2006, 14:10
Remarkably, almost every bike crash is caused by something beyond the riders control.According to the rider, anyway. As is every non crash.

Unfortunately, however, ACC is a "no blame" environment. Doesn't matter who caused it, all that matters is who they have to pay out to.

Given that we don't have steel wall protection , even in a multi vehicle crash, that'll be us.

In a single vehicle crash (and most bike crashes ARE single vehicle - no one to blame but the rider IMHO) , obviously, us

Believe me, I feel the pain. In 40 years riding and driving I must have paid 10's of thousands of dollars of levy. Cost to ACC - $0. I reckon I deserve a BIG refund.

Now, there's an idea that just MIGHT fly - a no claims discount on ACC. 10 years claim free and you get reduced rates? Could be a political possibility. Trouble is , how many bikers would qualify , hm.

emaN
5th May 2006, 14:14
a no claims discount on ACC. 10 years claim free and you get reduced rates? Could be a political possibility. Trouble is , how many bikers would qualify , hm.

doh!
nearly there...

marty
5th May 2006, 14:37
we can't go 10 days claim free in my household, let alone 10 years.

i'll pay my tax and get on with it. there's not much acc levy in bmx/rugby/netball/hockey/mountain biking, but i'm sure my bike/car/plane fees make up for it

Big Dave
5th May 2006, 21:10
Trouble is , how many bikers would qualify , hm.


4 times - 43 years since first mini bike - no significant injury.

Big Dave
5th May 2006, 21:14
OK squeak and others - here is what I have so far - BETA BETA BETA and very much still under construction - the contact data and membership are out of date - but I have a start - the complete and accurate datails are being compiled now - but here is the first sessions output.
www.davidcohen.co.nz/bronz

If you want to start petitioning using this resource then join BRONZ, attend a meeting or write to a branch and get it included on the agenda.
cheers
dc

riffer
5th May 2006, 22:03
Hmmm... no Wellington branch of BRONZ Dave?

Skyryder
5th May 2006, 22:33
No matter what logic you use or how many sigs you get the opposition will always have a counter answer.

You are going after the wrong target.

There is no counter argument for leaving bikers stranded on the road, as can happen under current law. The simple fact that if for any reason you are ticketed for speeding over 40 kph over the 'posted' speed limit HP act as judge jury and executioner. There should be at least a 24 hour period in which you have to 'surrender' your licence to a Police station. This simple courtesy can not be contered by any arguement in a civilised society.

THIS IS WINNABLE GO AFTER SOMETHING THAT EFFECTS ALL ROAD USERS. UNITE WITH AA, CAR CLUBS ETC. Win this then go after the levies.

Skyryder

Big Dave
6th May 2006, 01:28
Hmmm... no Wellington branch of BRONZ Dave?


struck me as ironic. ya wanna start one?

Crasherfromwayback
6th May 2006, 03:54
I for one, would certainly be happy to help in any way I can.

Ironman
6th May 2006, 06:04
ACC levies are payable via registration, so the more vehicles you own the more registration you pay. I used to own a couple of bikes and hence paid double the ACC levy but I can only ride one bike at a time, well if they'd been 250's I guess I could have strapped one to each foot and used them as roller skates :blip: Anyway my point is the systems unfair to multiple vehicle owners as the risk is constant

Skyryder
6th May 2006, 08:07
ACC levies are payable via registration, so the more vehicles you own the more registration you pay. I used to own a couple of bikes and hence paid double the ACC levy but I can only ride one bike at a time, well if they'd been 250's I guess I could have strapped one to each foot and used them as roller skates :blip: Anyway my point is the systems unfair to multiple vehicle owners as the risk is constant

That is a better argument for ACC levie changes. It not only affects bikers but those who have multiple vehicles; cars etc. If you want some changes to this it has to be something that brings on 'all' road users. The biker community can act as the spearhead for this but with out the shaft, the spear head is useless.

For those that think a petion soley based on the reduction of ACC levies for bikers can be achieved let me ask two questions.

How long has the biker community been trying to achive this??

What has changed that makes this achievable in the current climate?


I'll say it again if you want changes go after something that 'affects' all road users. A petion presented on the steps of Parliment with a biker protest as the 'spearhead will not only get the media's attention but it could be used as a membership drive for BRONZ. Food for thought????


Skyryder

Big Dave
6th May 2006, 14:09
I for one, would certainly be happy to help in any way I can.

goodonya - next meeting I'll ask 'how does a branch get started' and advise.

Ixion
6th May 2006, 14:20
goodonya - next meeting I'll ask 'how does a branch get started' and advise.

Well, you see, when a Mummy tree and a Daddy tree really love each other .................


Uh, sorry, I'll go away now.

The Stranger
6th May 2006, 14:40
goodonya - next meeting I'll ask 'how does a branch get started' and advise.

Ok, you got the jump on us there a little guys.

You may recall Dave, Finn and I stayed back a while on Thursday. This was the first thing that I spoke to him about after the meeting.

We hatched a plan to get Wellington back up and running. If this succeeds we intended to try it in a few other areas.

Wellington did have a branch. We intended to aproach one of the old Wellington members and ask him to either re-convene or at least be a contact point and assist others to set it up.

We also have a couple of ideas for a recruiting drive.

If we have some people here from the Wellington region whom are interested in assisting with the setup and running of BRONZ in the area it would be great if you could PM me your name and contact details please.

The Stranger
6th May 2006, 14:42
Well, you see, when a Mummy tree and a Daddy tree really love each other .................


Uh, sorry, I'll go away now.

Ixion, perhaps you would like to join the Wellington branch...



And take you dynamite with you.

TonyB
6th May 2006, 15:23
I haven't read through all of this, but I'm quite positive there was a thread where, before the election, a member contacted the various parties about their policies towards motorcyclists. From what I can recall, the Greens DON'T regard motorcycles as being enviromentally friendly. Or was it just sprots bikes?

Skyryder
7th May 2006, 09:48
I haven't read through all of this, but I'm quite positive there was a thread where, before the election, a member contacted the various parties about their policies towards motorcyclists. From what I can recall, the Greens DON'T regard motorcycles as being enviromentally friendly. Or was it just sprots bikes?

I occasionaly walk in political circles. We don't even register as a voting force in any political party.

There's enough of us, we should do.

Skyryder

Big Dave
11th May 2006, 16:57
[QUOTE=Skyryder]I occasionaly walk in political circles.

No mortal man spoke ever again with Beren son of Barihir; and none saw Beren and Lutherien leave the world[/QUOTE=Skyryder]

Sounds more like concentric circles!
See what the grand pooh bah can do about bus lanes too.

Seriously - that's what the BRONZ push is about.

My cunning plan is to build it a better web site that can identify some processes for us to establish a political voice, promote the organisation with some column centimeters that have fallen my way, and then step back into the rank and file.

SARGE
11th May 2006, 17:20
And while we're at it, we should lobby for full approved safety gear to be a mandatory requirement. Including flouro vests.
And gaitors.


what about Crocks?.. dont see many gaiters down in these parts..maybe a shitload of salamanders?

Skyryder
11th May 2006, 17:52
[QUOTE=Skyryder]
My cunning plan is to build it a better web site that can identify some processes for us to establish a political voice, promote the organisation with some column centimeters that have fallen my way, and then step back into the rank and file.

Concentric circles, eliptical circle, or as I mentioned political circles it’s all a bit of a ‘roundabout,’ if there is no forward direction.

What your’re trying to do is to influence politicians to act in a reasonable manner. We are both in agreementthat the ACC levies are disproprtianal to our overall accident rate. That’s a simple way of saying that we pay to much. The question is how to change that in our favour.

All politicla parties develop policy so as to gain enough votes so as to get as many of their members elected to Parliament as posssible.

Policy is formuled by one of three way, and in some cases all three.

1 Remits voted on by members at annual conferences.
2 Lobby groups.
3 Public opinion. (this usually will only happen when the groundswell is big enough and a party picks it up in order for support.

One is unlikely to occurr unless BRONZ becomes a political party and there is no reason why that could not be done. It is a simple matter of registration.

Two; unless BRONZ is in a strong financial position that is unlikely to happen and if it did ACC would offer counter arguments, that the politicians would more likely to listen too. Reason and common sense is not always applicable to Party Policy. Potential voters are

Three; again not likely as we are too small a group to register on the wave of public opinion.


Mention BRONZ and the first thing that comes to mind on a national level is ACC levies. They have been flogging that for as long as I have been riding to no success. It’s almost become their battle cry to rally the troops. Well I for one need another one.

Now don’t get me wrong. I’m all for Cyber information and getting it out and to build up numbers and membership. But take it from me, you may get some enthuisasm here but within the general biker community as a whole that war cry sounds hollow. BRONZ needs a new one and what ever it is, if it is to get the polictical ear, it has to include all road users……………..not just bikers.

I wish you well…………………..it’s a long ride you’re into and once you leave the rank and file they might not let you come back. That's the price you pay for leadership.


Skyryder

Big Dave
11th May 2006, 18:14
[QUOTE=Big Dave]

the general biker community as a whole that war cry sounds hollow. BRONZ needs a new one and what ever it is, if it is to get the polictical ear, it has to include all road users……………..not just bikers.

I wish you well…………………..it’s a long ride you’re into and once you leave the rank and file they might not let you come back. That's the price you pay for leadership.


Skyryder

It's not original - but it works: 'Let those who ride decide'.

And mate, when someone shows me a better plan this correspondent will shove the Julius Marlow size 12 back in the gob and happily tag along.

I think everyone agrees - motorcyclists need a spokesperson, sponsor, patron or a champion figure to rally behind. Just on things like the motorway bus lanes - where the system must be flawed to allow such folly.

I'm not the man for the job - I have the attention span of a gnat, no real understanding of law, and a broad Australian accent. Hardly Che Guevara.

Big Dave
11th May 2006, 18:16
what about Crocks?


I've seen one around colemans!

Skyryder
11th May 2006, 18:28
Folly? Ever driven a bus? I have. I stay away from bus lanes. I know how dangerous they are to bikers.

I agree that a respected spokesman is missing from the biker community. Does BRONZ have a patron?

Skyryder

Big Dave
11th May 2006, 18:55
Folly? Ever driven a bus? I have. I stay away from bus lanes. I know how dangerous they are to bikers.

I agree that a respected spokesman is missing from the biker community. Does BRONZ have a patron?

Skyryder

On the straight and unencumbered parts of the Akl motorways it is folly when as an alternative we lane split through a 3' gap of slow moving vehicles - whilst a viable lane remains 95% empty.

no - we're looking.

suggestion or volunteers welcome.