View Full Version : Relativity
Just wondering; what experiences have people had with tickets vs warnings.
I have been ticketed for 14 K over (open road), and got away with a warning for aproximately (before mobile radar) 100K over limit. And my first ever ticket (46 over) cost me less than it would have had I been doing 6 K slower...
Kickaha
6th May 2004, 20:47
In 13 years of riding and driving I have had two tickets,one for 30km over which was a $80 fine at the time and one for not wearing a helmet which was a $50 fine.
I have had two warnings in the same time,one for 24km over and the other for no WOF.
I look at it like this,I know the rules and if I choose to break them and get caught I'll pay the fine and you won't hear any bitching from me,if I get away with a warning thats a bonus!
Skyryder
6th May 2004, 21:06
Two tickets on the bike, no warnings. The first outside Reefton. No traffic perfect riding conditions at 117. That one just not cricket. Still think the fuz was pissid off because I was riding he was driving. The second in the city 61 k's. OK a fair cop I was in the wrong and caught by a hidden camera. I have a simple philosophy in such cases as this. If you can not say something in someones face you should not say it at all. Feel much the same way about hidden camera or speed traps of any kind.
Skyryder
Marknz
6th May 2004, 21:08
In 1996 I got done for 114kph in the cage between Wanganui & Bulls and was fined something in the region of $120.
In early 2003 in Canberra I was pulled up for 137kph on the 'Storm in an 80 zone in the middle of the night and got a warning.
Go figure
jrandom
6th May 2004, 21:11
Hmmm. Never had a pull-over-stylee ticket in the car. Got a warning some years back for fanging it (car) up Mt Wellington Highway. Must have been doing a solid 35 over at the time but the copper was in a benevolent mood. Maybe he just didn't get a radar lock.
Two pull-over tickets, both $150 for going nortily where I shuddnae bin (emergency shoulder and motorway bus lane) on the bike. One warning and let-off for riding outside license restrictions while on learners (he could have hit me for $800 and 50 points - phew).
Lost count of laser camera tickets in the car, never had one on the bike.
jrandom
6th May 2004, 21:19
And...
While we're on the topic of relativity, does anyone else think the license restriction transgression penalties are a little on the harsh side? Let's say Joe Learner is taking the missus for a spin down the motorway on his mate's Bandit 600 and gets flagged. That would be
- Not displaying L plate: $400, 25 points
- Exceeding 70kph: $400, 25 points
- Carrying a pillion: $400, 25 points
- Riding over 250cc: $400, 25 points
That's his license gone and $1600 down the toilet.
I think I'd rather take my chances pulling a wheelie past the Northcote traffic headquarters.
Probably 50/50 for me,had a few tickets,had some warnings too.The last time I was stopped was doing 80 in a 50 in the Diamante - he didn't have the radar on but knew I was going way too fast,just told to keep the speed down.The last ticket was on a bike and he got me at 80kph,but gave me a ticket for 69kph as I was doing that steady thinking I was in a 70kph zone....and that's the way it's been down the years,win some,lose some.
And...
While we're on the topic of relativity, does anyone else think the license restriction transgression penalties are a little on the harsh side? Let's say Joe Learner is taking the missus for a spin down the motorway on his mate's Bandit 600 and gets flagged. That would be
- Not displaying L plate: $400, 25 points
- Exceeding 70kph: $400, 25 points
- Carrying a pillion: $400, 25 points
- Riding over 250cc: $400, 25 points
That's his license gone and $1600 down the toilet.
I think I'd rather take my chances pulling a wheelie past the Northcote traffic headquarters.
No, if anything they are way too soft. Who knows someone that has broken one or more of their conditions (including me), it is a joke. Also, who knows someone that has been let off after getting pulled over while breaking a condition.
If someone is dumb enough to break 4 conditions at the same time, then they get what they deserve.
P.S. They would have also got a speeding ticket for doing 30 or so over the limit (another 25 points and $230).
Back on topic, I have had one ticket for 130 in a 100, overtaking some slow asses that sped up in the passing lane, just took it. Thats the only time i've been pulled up for speeding.
Since getting a bike I haven't gotten a single ticket, pull over or camera. Camera ones might have something to do with the small ding in my number plate rather than not being flashed though. Have only had one warning, that was going to be a ticket, but the cop was called away to an accident while doing a walkaround the car.
No, if anything they are way too soft. Who knows someone that has broken one or more of their conditions (including me), it is a joke. Also, who knows someone that has been let off after getting pulled over while breaking a condition.
But this shows up the whole problem of setting and enforcing arbitrary limits. If the conditions are a joke because they are widely ignored, is it an appropriate response to increase the penalties? Perhaps they are widely ignored because they are perceived as being too restrictive or because compared to other riskier behaviours they are seen as relatively minor?
The idea that if people don't obey the law you simply increase the punishment until they do has a certain logic to it that appeals to people in authority, and it can be effective up to a point, but it is not the most intelligent approach.
pete376403
7th May 2004, 08:34
I thnk the last warning I got was when a bunch of us were doing about 140 - 150 on the Napier Taupo road, on a clear day, with no other traffic in sight. Cop coming the other way turned around and pulled us over. Possibly cos he couldn't identify any one particular speeder (can they do group bookings?)
I just stood behind my bike the whole time so he couldn't see the number plate (and take note of the expired registration).
Apart from that, haven't been pulled up on the bike for years. In the car, though... and never a bloody warning, either, always a ticket. Even for 120 on the Himitangi straight at about 2:30 am
Firefight
7th May 2004, 08:57
In the last couple of months I have witnessed the following.
1) :Police: waving hand indicating for us to slow down( 160ish)
we were a group of 4-5 old GSR Ramarama
2) :Police: giving myself and another rider the fingers (190ish)
priceless. :Punk: SH/W one Rangariri
3) :Police: pulled over, did QVR & QP, got mild lecture ( 135ish)
old GSR Ramarama
4) :Police: Myself & another got the slow down wave (120ish)
just gone from 100kph to 50 kph HW31.
Have been pulled over a few times in the last couple of years, on bike,
cage, and in truck&trailer only probs have been with CVIU guys(CWS), had a few warnings re speeding on bike and when I get pinged will accept it as part of the deal.
Firefight :crazy:
Jackrat
7th May 2004, 09:10
never had a speeding ticket or a warning.
Have been done for careless use when I parked a car in a ditch.
I got pulled from a line of cars outside Hamilton once.
The conversation went like this,,You were speeding,No I wasn't,Yes you were,
No I wasn't,Yes you were,Right bloody prove it,I'm giving you a warning,Shove ya' warning I wasn't doing nothing wrong,Your a bit of a smart ass aye,Yeah so what you gonn'a do about it,Fuck off.
And then I watched him pull up the next biker that came along.This was from a constantly flowing stream of traffic all doing the same speed.This was in the days of MOT,,Some of those guys really were too thick to be real cops.
PuppetMaster
7th May 2004, 09:29
When I was a young man living in auckland, it was a common occurence to recieve at least one ticket per week. I have had shitloads. back then ofcourse the fines were alot smaller and being young it was all part of the game.
But, i didnt recieve a ticket in a cage until I was over 30.
My best let off was for doing 178kph (in an HSV), lady cop coming other way, turned around and caught up with me 20 mins later. It was xmas eve and she was nice and gave me a ticket for 130kph, $400 fine.:rolleyes:
Talking of fines. I got a call from the courts a while back about a fine that I had incurred back in 1991, $350. They had finally caught up with me. <_<
spudchucka
7th May 2004, 10:59
And...
While we're on the topic of relativity, does anyone else think the license restriction transgression penalties are a little on the harsh side? Let's say Joe Learner is taking the missus for a spin down the motorway on his mate's Bandit 600 and gets flagged. That would be
- Not displaying L plate: $400, 25 points
- Exceeding 70kph: $400, 25 points
- Carrying a pillion: $400, 25 points
- Riding over 250cc: $400, 25 points
That's his license gone and $1600 down the toilet.
I think I'd rather take my chances pulling a wheelie past the Northcote traffic headquarters.
4 hundy and 25 points for each offence are big pills to swallow for anyone but they know the conditions and if they are stupid enough to flaunt them then stiff shit.
As for tickets, I got pinged for 95kph in about 1984, the speed limit was 80 kph then, (can't remember the fine). I got a speed camera fine for 65 in Napier when the cameras first came out. These are the only two occassions that I've been fined in nearly 23 years.
vifferman
7th May 2004, 11:00
I think I'd rather take my chances pulling a wheelie past the Northcote traffic headquarters.
Hmmm.... I go past there every night, and usually accelerate hard (after tootling over the bridge) up the off ramp. A couple of nights ago, there was an HP ute parked at the end of the off-ramp, and as the Firestorm went "BRAARRRRP!!!" past him, it must've given him a start, and he started to move. Then I guess he realised I wasn't doing a bazillion miles per hour (just sounded like it) and stayed where he was. (Either that, or he realised he was in the wrong place to chase me from...)
Anyway, I've had 3 tickets in 30-odd years of riding: one for 41 in a 30 mph zone (cop followed me for ages), one for 38 in a 40 (I slowed from 75. Oops...), and one for no mirror (after they changed the WOF requirements). These three incidents were back in the 70's.
I once passed a cop parked on the other side of the road while doing nearly twice the speed limit, and looked in the mirror to see this huge cloud of dust as he spun it up to do a U-turn. He followed me for about 10 km, while I drove at 10 kph below the speed limit. Eventually he got bored and cracked another U-turn...
Once passed a cop in a line of traffic, doing about 130 kph or so. Nothing.
The only recent examples of trouble have been while commuting, and both a couple of years ago. The first was when 3 or 4 of us were lane-splitting down Onewa Road, and a bike cop rode up beside us and went mental, yelling, frothing at the mouth, etc. He said summat like, "If you rode like a proper motorcyclist instead of an idiot, you wouldn't give the rest of us a bad name!!" Then he pissed off.
Would someone care to explain to me what that was all about?!?
The second time (a couple of weeks after that), a very polite policeman parked on the other side of the road waved me over while I was overtaking two lanes of semi-stationary traffic on Onewa road. He said, "Do you know why I've pulled you over?" Nope. "Well, you were riding along in your own lane there, and you didn't indicate when you pulled out to overtake."
So, I questioned hiem about what was legal, and what was not, and he said that basically nothing short of staying in my lane was condoned, but if I undertook in the gutter, ONLY when the traffic was not moving, it wasn't illegal strictly speaking, but if I had a collision while doing so I would be ticketed.
So I thanked him, and off I went. Now I always use my indicators. Except when I don't.
And of course I've had no bother since then, because I'm always careful, considerate, and law-abiding. <_<
I have talked to the police on two occasions since then - once as a witness to a scooter rider being bowled by a car, and once when answering questions in hospital after some genius did a U-turn into my VFR.
But like I said - I'm always careful, considerate, and law-abiding.
4 hundy and 25 points for each offence are big pills to swallow for anyone but they know the conditions and if they are stupid enough to flaunt them then stiff shit.
As for tickets, I got pinged for 95kph in about 1984, the speed limit was 80 kph then, (can't remember the fine). I got a speed camera fine for 65 in Napier when the cameras first came out. These are the only two occassions that I've been fined in nearly 23 years.
What about the warnings/let offs? Come on, you must have a bucket load of them.
In the 1970's probably had about 3 tickets (only 1 on a bike) and about 10 warnings.
1980's had only 2 tickets (not on the bike) and probably about 3 warnings.
1990's can't remember any tickets except 2 speed camera tickets (not on the bike) and only 1 warning.
New century had 2 tickets and 1 speed camera ticket (not on the bike) and no warnings.
The pattern is warnings have disappeared - tickets are the rage. Recent tickets for me have been towing the trailer over 80 (zapped by HP going the other way about 2 year ago) and going over 100 south of Paremata roundabout by HP hiding behind toe toe bush with his laser gun about 6 months ago.
Luck so far has it that I have only ever had one ticket on a bike and that was from an old Napier City Council cop in 1973.
Two Smoker
7th May 2004, 15:11
Hey JR it isnt a fine for each individual breach of the conditions, it is one fine for "Breaching The Conditions Of The Licence"
As for me ive only been pulled over once on the bike for a "Routine Stop" where i didnt have an L-plate and it was 1030 at night... got a warning and i was on my way.....
As for the cage, i have been pulled over a few times.... Once for speeding, didnt have any speed recording equipment and got a bit of a yelling, then let off..... Doing 128kmh in a 100 (thankfully he didnt lock onto me at the speed i had previously been doing :no: ) i was nice about it and so was he.... Another time was doing 145 in a 100 and got pulled over, once again didnt have speed recording equipment and got off with a warning.
Another time i was doing 135 around a 85 corner in a 100 zone, cop came around the corner flashed his head lights pointed and that was it...
The key is too think like a cop and where they would likely be hiding and be speed smart, ie doing it in safe areas and when safe to do so in those areas.....
Andrew
7th May 2004, 15:22
1 ticket no warnings. SUX
Firefight
7th May 2004, 17:51
1 ticket no warnings. SUX
Ok dick, how fast were you going ??,cause we know what an :innocent: you are.
F/F :wacko:
I've been driving a car for about 7 years, and got my bike at the start of this year, and so far I haven't had a ticket driving either the car or bike. Have since sold the car, so I only have a bike now.
I tend not to speed to much, but I'm bound to get done for lanesplitting sooner or later...
The pattern is warnings have disappeared - tickets are the rage.
Just what I was thinking. My big warning (100 over the 80 K limit) was partly because the cop in a cortina couldn't get near me until I slowed down (I didn't know he was there...) so couldn't clock me, also because I slowed significantly once I got to an area where driveways and side roads were. The cop accepted that whist fast, I was not necessarily dangerous. I'd bet two Moros I wouldn't get off with a warning for that these days, no matter what the circumstances.
Bastards have got more technology these days too eh!
For me similar experience to yours What, got spotted by a cop heading South on the road between Kaikoura and Oaro in his Holden HQ Belmont (remember them?) when I was heading North in the 80km/hr days about 1975. I just pressed on enjoying the drive around all those nice curves then out onto the straight bit before the Kaikoura airport (yeah they have an airport!!) about 8 km later and bugger there he is in my mirror a way behind. Slow down, but bugger he pulls me up, but all he said was "You were going a bit quick around the coast weren't you? Take it easy."
The HP scum aren't that sweet these days - its all smart arsed young guys on a high making their quota.
jrandom
7th May 2004, 20:30
Hey JR it isnt a fine for each individual breach of the conditions, it is one fine for "Breaching The Conditions Of The Licence"
'fraid not matey. Was informed by an HP cop at one point while being let off for two breaches at once that it would have been $800 and 50 points. One hit for each condition not complied with. Also note Spud's response to my comment in this thread - *he* should know...
So yes, it's best to minimise the restriction breaches, because it really hurts when you're caught.
Jackrat
7th May 2004, 20:42
Bastards have got more technology these days too eh!
For me similar experience to yours What, got spotted by a cop heading South on the road between Kaikoura and Oaro in his Holden HQ Belmont (remember them?) when I was heading North in the 80km/hr days about 1975. I just pressed on enjoying the drive around all those nice curves then out onto the straight bit before the Kaikoura airport (yeah they have an airport!!) about 8 km later and bugger there he is in my mirror a way behind. Slow down, but bugger he pulls me up, but all he said was "You were going a bit quick around the coast weren't you? Take it easy."
The HP scum aren't that sweet these days - its all smart arsed young guys on a high making their quota.
My friend Jim is neither scum nor is he a smart ass young guy trying to make a quota. :eyepoke:
jrandom
7th May 2004, 21:11
My friend Jim is neither scum nor is he a smart ass young guy trying to make a quota. :eyepoke:
Yes.
I think it's time that we on this forum lost the whole 'the fuzz are bastards' attitude and realised that the majority of these guys are hard-working, genuine individuals that have to abide by orders from above in order to get paid. Same as we all do. If those orders state 'zero tolerance for traffic offenses' then, well, that's what we're seeing when we get pulled over.
We're lucky enough to live in a reasonably functional democracy. Do what you can to affect the nature of the orders these guys are receiving, and let's cultivate an image of bikers as intelligent citizens who understand the spirit of the law.
'Nuff sed.
sAsLEX
7th May 2004, 21:30
Personally I dont display my target identification plate to the cages around me, they just tailgate more and tend to get unwanted attention.
As for going only 70, thats damn right sucidial in my books, cruising along the motorway at said speed one cage dont notice you till the last second and swerves out of the way, cage behind speeding doing make up drinking coffee and talking on the phone dont see me as I was in the other cars shadow............and no more me. I like to keep as far away from other vehicles on the road as possible, not sit at the front of ques who are pissed at going 70 or being passed continually.
Cop did the license check recently in Ngarawahia? didnt ask about the plate or the bike just a thank you a little smile, nice lady cop.
Car two tickets and one using to annoyance infringement notice. 69 in 50 $130ish, 129 in 100 $160ish overtaking on the straightest flattest piece of road in miles, and driving my car at night and being seen by angry police $600
If they are going to have a zero tolerance they dont have to set up speed traps on the only place to pass saftely in miles, they are suggesting passing around blind corners in a way as they will nearly never be on a piece of road that is not safe and easy to speed on....big breath....I travell between dorkland and the naki often places they love are the new waikato expressways, straight on back road to otrohonga, ladys mile and the straights around mokau. Never have I seen a speed camera in a position where speeding would be dangerous.....breath......the HP use there ticket count as one of these new age performance indicators yet more people still die on our roads, they crack down on speeding and still people die, obviously their method needs a bit more thought.. :mad:
jrandom
7th May 2004, 21:40
didnt ask about the plate or the bike just a thank you a little smile, nice lady cop.
Yeah, but we don't all have your sweet baby blue eyes and charming manner, do we ;)
The unshaven smelly loud-mouth types tend to get cracked down on by the lady cops. Personal experience. :p
Over the last 5 years I have had one speed camera 62 in a 50 area......one ticket at a speed trap thingy where they were targeting vehicles in a 50 area....66 but he droped it to 65 which made a bit of difference to the fine.....about three warnings all for speeding......I have had none for over twelve months.......
jrandom
7th May 2004, 21:43
they crack down on speeding and still people die, obviously their method needs a bit more thought.. :mad:
Like I said, gotta work from the top down mate. Bitching on this forum isn't going to have a direct effect, but with Hitcher being the KB Lobbyist in the Capitol City... who knows eh? Solidarity, comrades.
sAsLEX
7th May 2004, 22:00
Its a safe and easy way to vent.
If only politicians were all like Harry Dynhoven hes pretty good with the engined type citizen! you dont hear much on Transport poilicies at election time so is a bit harder to change.
Lou Girardin
9th May 2004, 20:42
It works out at about 1 ticket every 10 years for me, and 1 warning. (The cop was ex-MOT, funny that)
spudchucka
10th May 2004, 00:25
What about the warnings/let offs? Come on, you must have a bucket load of them.
Well no actually because I learnt long ago that if you are discrete, drive with your eyes open, use common sense and don't drive / ride a piece of shit vehicle that attracts attention then you just don't get pulled over. Its really that simple, keep your eyes open and don't draw attention to yourself and you won't have problems.
spudchucka
10th May 2004, 00:26
It works out at about 1 ticket every 10 years for me, and 1 warning. (The cop was ex-MOT, funny that)
Must have been one of your old mates huh.
angle
10th May 2004, 02:27
I've received three warning and no tickets.
The first one three-four years ago, when I was going home from uni at around 22:00.
The motorway's on-ramp was going uphill and I opened the throtlle a bit more so that when I joined the mainstream of cars the bike was doing 125 km/h. Then I saw the flashing lights behind me and slowed down. The police car pulled up to me and the officer signalled to me to pull over, so I did. The cop turned out to be a rider himself (a GoldWing owner), so we talked about bikes, he gave me a few tips and let me go.
The second time was two years ago, I was going to uni for an eight o'clock lecture (the time was 7:40, but in the end I wasn't late for the lecture). The traffic is absolutely horrible at that time of day and, obviously, I used lane splitting quite a bit. When coming to the motorway on-ramp (Pt. Chevalier) I saw a motorcycle cop and until I was sure I was out of his line of sight, rode normally in one line with cars. As soon as I parked the bike (on Symonds St. outside the Recreation Centre) took off the helmet and locked the bike, that cop parks his bike beside mine and asks me (he had a flip-up helmet) with a strong Scottish accent: "Why do you think bikers have a bad name?". "Because of people like me." - I replied. He agreed with me and gave me a mini lecture about lanesplitting and his opinions about young people dying like idiots. Told me to ride safely, and that he will see me tommorow because he was inclined to wait for me by the on-ramp so that he can supervise my riding. For the next two weeks I had my very own Police escort :)
The third time was around one year ago. I was riding from the City to Tamaki via Quay St. and Tamaki Drive. Was stopped by a Police officer on Quay St. (just after the line of parked buses) who said I was riding at 64 km/h while turning from Tinley St. to Quay St. Told me to ease of the throttle and let me go.
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