RG150 broken?

[Magua]

I was out on 22 yesterday (MR's ride) and my bike decieded to stop working. I was going at it pretty hard between the corners, fairly close to the red line when the bike starting making a bit of a humming noise, which proceeded to get louder until I throttled off and pulled over.

As I was doing this I started to loose power and then the bike stalled. Now when started it sounds rather terrible, sorta clunky, I might go kick it over later if I dare just to describe the sound better.

It's only done 14,000kms so I hope it's nothing too serious, I'll try and get it to a bike shop during the week sometime.

Not the best desription, but any ideas?

Edit: I noticed it had ditched a fair amount of fuel on both trailer rides it took, (it was standing upright on it's stand both times) if that's of any help.

[Ixion]

Well, a traditional two stroker either seizes (problem obvious), or craps the big end, in which case they usually keep running OK but rattle like mad (until the rod breaks , anyway). Or break off a chunk of piston skirt, which is usually quiet , just no power.

Your description doesn't fit any of these so I'd suggest either something "odd", like an exhaust baffle broken loose ("humming") and then blocking the zorst. Or, the obvious candidate, just because I don't approve of them, those powervalve thingamajigs.

Either way, get somebody with experience of the motors to listen.

Does it still have compression? Start ? No (new) oil leaks ? Water leaks? Has the water level gone down? Up? Oil in the water?

[ZorsT]

Did you have the fuel tap turned ON when the bike was on the trailer?

If so, fuel was sloshing out of the carb bowl.

[Magua]

Did you have the fuel tap turned ON when the bike was on the trailer?

If so, fuel was sloshing out of the carb bowl.

:D woops. I'll remove the fairings and have a good look in a few.

[Magua]

Does it still have compression? Start ? No (new) oil leaks ? Water leaks? Has the water level gone down? Up? Oil in the water?

No water leaks, no new oil leaks, it started yesterday a few hours after the incident ( i don't want to start if I can help it), water is green doens't appear to have any oil in it.

[Sketchy_Racer]

sounds like your powervalves are 'rubbing' on the piston.

Just pull the head off and have a look. Its only a two stroke.... nothing to them.

[Magua]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCobQW2OiIU

Here's a video of the offending noise.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Im sorry, But i may be wrong (i hope i am)

But it sounds alot like a shat out crank. It is a sort of a knock from the sound in teh video.

Would you be able to get a a sound wave of it reving a little bit??

[stanko]

Just pull it to bits and have a look, you will sleep better

[Magua]

Just pull it to bits and have a look, you will sleep better

I don't have the tools stanko and after the fzr I don't know if I should be fucking with this one. :D


I've only got a digital camera rg100 but I'll talk to our friend pyrocam and see what magic he can work with a video.
Edit: tommorow I'll take a video, pyro will sort it. Legend.

[FruitLooPs]

Sounds somewhat worse than powervalves to me, the right one of mine had been munted against the piston at some point and has been bent etc, doesn't have any untoward sound like that though.

Whip the head off, I did mine today and its a walk in the park, seriously.

[Magua]

I've got all wednesday off so maybe I'll tinker then. In the meantime I've made three videos. It stalls out when I try and rev it, but pyro's changing them to soundfiles and I'll host them for rg100 to have a listen to anyway.

[Magua]

Here's the sound files.

EDIT: Pyrocam is a legend.

[Sketchy_Racer]

That Does not sound good ...

It does sound alot like the crank....... But it is weird how it wont rev.

I guess it only time to pull it apart.

Too bad you aren't lower down in the contry.... i would love to help out..

[Wellyman]

Sounds a bit sad mate. i agree with above that is is the crank.
hope you can fix it , should be fixable I think.
WM

[Magua]

Here's a pic of the powervalves, effing dirty but otherwise they look alright?

[ZorsT]

no, not alright.

gimmie 5 mins, i'll have more explination

[ZorsT]

okay, i've gotten your picture and added some things.

This was all done by memory, so i may be missing some things :yes:

edit: alal screw is typo for alan screw.

when you put things back together, it would be advisible to use loctite on the screw that has come out, it seems to be one of many weak points of suzuki powervlaves...

[The Pastor]

From a quick google here is what i pulled up www.dansmc.com/powervalve.htm


Also remember that these things require regular maintenance to remove carbon. On most Race bikes that means cleaning and readjusting them every seven (7) to twelve (12) hours of running.

Also note this quote from muga, I dont need to service my bike.

[ZorsT]

Methods for removing carbon: i use a small screwdriver to scrape it off, i have heard of others who put the valves into a bag full of oven cleaner.

If your going to use a screwdriver, take care not to scratch the metal.

when you put the valves back in, be sure to lube them up with some of your 2-stroke oil beforehand.

[Magua]

From a quick google here is what i pulled up www.dansmc.com/powervalve.htm



Also note this quote from muga, I dont need to service my bike.

Quotes from renengade master
"muga" "It's density" "babbge". You're not one to talk after what you did to that supra.

[Magua]

okay, i've gotten your picture and added some things.

This was all done by memory, so i may be missing some things :yes:

edit: alal screw is typo for alan screw.

when you put things back together, it would be advisible to use loctite on the screw that has come out, it seems to be one of many weak points of suzuki powervlaves...

Sweet. I'll see what I can do tommorow/friday, but most likely on the weekend.
The clip that's missing/broken, expensive?

[FruitLooPs]

haha your valves probably weren't too far off mine.

And as a note, those springs x2 and the thing that holds them the 'stopper' is like $10-15 I cant remember, I ordered some for my bike 2 days ago. Easily less than $20 though, unlike the valves themselves... :angry:

All I can say is.. be pleased they dont come out looking like mine!

32103 :shutup:

32104

And yes i'm aware the replacement is for the opposite side, i'm getting both replaced while im at it. :bye: so.. poor haha

From the position you're at you could pull the head off easily. If your valves are fine, and they dont look nearly as bad as mine (which made no horrible clonking noise either, although Im sure i purchased it after it had worn down) then you should look further down for the problem, plus its also pretty easy to clean the top of the piston. :)

[Magua]

haha your valves probably weren't too far off mine.

And as a note, those springs x2 and the thing that holds them the 'stopper' is like $10-15 I cant remember, I ordered some for my bike 2 days ago. Easily less than $20 though, unlike the valves themselves... :angry:

All I can say is.. be pleased they dont come out looking like mine!

32103 :shutup:

32104

And yes i'm aware the replacement is for the opposite side, i'm getting both replaced while im at it. :bye: so.. poor haha

From the position you're at you could pull the head off easily. If your valves are fine, and they dont look nearly as bad as mine (which made no horrible clonking noise either, although Im sure i purchased it after it had worn down) then you should look further down for the problem, plus its also pretty easy to clean the top of the piston. :)

Ouch, how much is it costing you for replacements?

[FruitLooPs]

A cool $302 each :sick: Wish the previous owners had taken some more care!

[Magua]

Removing ze head.

[The Pastor]

Quotes from renengade master
"muga" "It's density" "babbge". You're not one to talk after what you did to that supra.


Genius, You know I cant spell And I never said I could or care. And the supra? Nearly every coolant pipe was perrished and cracked. Now genius do you know what happens when you have cracks in your coolant pipes? I would guess not as you are infact a woman with no tools. You get whats called air lock (and loss of coolant). Air heats up alot quicker that water and it causes the car to overheat. And dont say that with in 40mins of buying the car that I cracked those pipes. Call me stupid for buying a car off a black man without checking it out properly - but don't say I broke the car.


Nb; There were other things that were wrong but the main reason for the overheating was the cracked pipes.

[Coyote]

My RG had the same problem with the clip and springs not being attached. I tried fixing it myself and it was running better but not by much. I took it to the Motomart and they fixed that and de-coked the pipe for $300 (there went my tyre money). They mentioned that someone had been mucking around with the valves (I said nothing...) and one of them was stuck open. By all means give it a go and get the springs in and go for a test blat, but it might be wise to get an expert to sort it out

I was fortunate that my valves were perfect condition however. Once I replace the piston and ring the bike should be perfect :2thumbsup

[FruitLooPs]

Annnd to get back on topic..

Take off the orange and red, yes the head will come off. Shouldn't need to pull the green screws for the water inlet, unless you want to I guess??

And for some reason if you want to take the cyl out like I did to check for piston damage you'll probably need some ring spanners to get a couple of the nuts. Should be 4 or 5 - very straight forward. Afterwards you'll probably have to loosen it with a rubber mallet gently to break the seal - and get a new gasket.


Of course thats only if you're going to take that off, just looking in at the top of the piston will enable you to clean it etc. I'd probably pull the cyl out too like I did, then you can check a little down low in relation to the random engine noises. See if you have any random play or graunching when moving the piston etc.

[Magua]

Fuck, fuckity, fuck, fuck, fuck.

I removed the head, np. Valves seem to be fine. I found the bracket, springs and screw good as gold. But I can't get that damned bar out that holds in the valves.

I managed to thread the hole with my allen key, FUCK. What size key did you use zorst? I might go buy some imperial ones as metric ones fucked it up.

[ZorsT]

I can't remember to be honest,

I'm confident it is metric though. Everything else on that bike is.

[imdying]

It'll be metric... you'll find that your cheap allen key chewed it out is all :(

[Magua]

Bah, I'll get a screw remover thingy then.

[Ixion]

Uh, be careful with that. Before you resort to such measures, try one of the "allen keys with a socket set head on it" (there's a name for them but I can't remember it), on the end of an impact driver.

[Magua]

I found some of those, for a screw driver I used to have with interchangable heads. They fit into one of the imperial sockets I have, which fits into my socket wrench and the rest is history. I got the valves out, that crossbar is a bitch, and cleaned them up. I'll de carbon the chamber tommorow.

[Magua]

Jesus, $150 or something for the head gasket for a single cylinder. $50 for the base gasket.

I've found an engine for $650 with 18,000km. Aparently it makes some noises but "it's a runner mate". Anyone who knows what they're listening for want to have a listen for me?

[Sketchy_Racer]

Have you found the cause of you bikes fault yet??

[FruitLooPs]

Jesus, $150 or something for the head gasket for a single cylinder. $50 for the base gasket.

I've found an engine for $650 with 18,000km. Aparently it makes some noises but "it's a runner mate". Anyone who knows what they're listening for want to have a listen for me?


Oh jeebus, I just ordered both gaskets figuring they cant be *that* much :no: Arghhh. My bikes costing me an arm and a leg!

Sweet, got them cancelled. On another note, i'm putting my engine back together today, how exactly do those springs fit into the whole thing. I know they hook on the stopper, but from there where do they go? there was a drawing that showed them going into one of the holes at the back of the powervalve but that seems crazy??

Any clarification would be much appreciated. :)

[Sketchy_Racer]

yep they go down the tops of the powervalve. They are the springs that tentsion the secondary valves.

There should be a little hole at the top of the two valve guides.

[svs]

I've got a PDF scan of the RG125 manual which is almost identical to the RG150. Drop me a PM with a email address of you want me so send to a copy (it's about 20MB).

[FruitLooPs]

Makes *much* more sense now! I didnt realise a hole was tapped through to that side screw. :laugh:

[Magua]

Engine is disconnected from all the wires, pipes etc. Removed two of the engine mounts, need a bigger socket for the main one. Should have it sorted tommorow.

[Mr. Peanut]

Thats sounds like far too much for those gaskets, ask around.

[geoffm]

Try Shuk Engineering - they can make gaskets for anything, and there a LOT less than the OEM. THey will need your old ones for a pattern. When I got some before, they were 1/5 of gen Yamaha ones, an dcheap enough I got 2 "just in case".
Geoff

[Magua]

I'll give them a call geoff, thanks.

Anyhow, finaly got the engine out.

[Magua]

My engine's proper fucked. Big end, crank (I think, it was a bad line), Crank seals, some other things mumble mumble, which totalled $800 in parts and $400 in labour. $1200 work on a $1300 bike, no thanks.

Anyone got an engine?

[Sketchy_Racer]

do it your self?? there is a manual on here some where that you can download. Its a two stroke. Very simple.

you should at least pull it apart and find out how easy/hard it is.

Im sure someone from around your area could give you a hand??

other wise how much do you want for the fucked engine??

[Magua]

Even if I was to do it myself, $800 in parts. If I can get a new engine then fuck that.

Umm, how much would said engine be worth to you rg100?

[Sketchy_Racer]

to me? weeeelllll

a dollar maybe,

But to you its worth closer to a $X00

[Magua]

Just picked it up, official verdict is "Check for clunking noise coming from motor. Report big end worn out."

[imdying]

Even if I was to do it myself, $800 in parts. If I can get a new engine then fuck that.New is the keyword here... don't buy a second hard piece of crap that's been screwed and won't make another 5000kms. Sometimes it better to swallow the lump, spend the $1200, and have a nice reliable full power engine that'll do the distance :)

Remember, it's a 2 stroke, they don't like to be mistreated or inadequately maintained... don't buy a lemon!!!

[Sketchy_Racer]

oh and how much would it cost to get the Crank rebuilt rather than replaced??

[FruitLooPs]

Hey Magua, this has me a little concerned.

I was wondering if there was any reason for the big ends to go like that, was there enough oil and what quality etc? I ask because my RG150 has done significantly more KM's (44k) and I dont like the prospect of it crapping itself with me on it. :shutup:

Do you know if you had much sideways movement with the conrod at all, I had a little when I pulled the head on mine.

[Magua]

Can't say I know what a conrod is. :o

I think mine went as there was something wrong with the oil pump. I'll confirm when I pick the bike up tuesday. It's ready now, but my tertiary account isn't.

[FruitLooPs]

That'd be fantastic thanks, because Im thinking maybe I should do the bearings on this thing but its previously had work and the oil pump is def working.

The conrod attaches the piston to the crankshaft :) mine could wiggle a tad left and right, and I do get a strange noise when i'm going along - not clunking but not just the usual loud 2-stroke noise.

It goes fine and isn't getting louder so I think i'm just worrying. I *do* however have a rattling/buzzing sound from the engine, and i pulled the head and retightened it and it went away for 2mins or so lol >.< i'm fairly sure its nothing rattling in the powervalve box since i just pulled it to bits and loctited the screws (they had come out). :yes:

Sounds like metal rattling on metal really quick, like vibrating.

[Magua]

I had that buzzing noise too. I'll see if it's still there on tuesday. Mine was buzzing from day 1 (11,000kms, died at 14,000).

[FruitLooPs]

Houston we have a problem! :angry:

I changed the trans fluid 3 weeks ago approx, ditched the old and stuck in some new. I only had a 1L and it takes 1050ml I thought meh wont worry about it. Stuck it all in, the manual wanted it overflowing but it was only 50ml short.

So today I buy another 1L to fill it that extra 50ml and .. 300ml in wtff 500ml in oh ughh alllll 1000ml in... :yes: :sick: Aghh where is my oil going!? it must've been running dry for a while. Even after the second litre it still isn't topped up to overflowing lol!

No the sump plug wasnt out, no there wasn't any leaking out

I talked today with my friends dad who was an auto and now an aeronautics mechanic. He told me it sounds def like the crank seal has gone and I will need it fixed really quick if I dont want to do a bearing (or the engine like in your case magua).


Any idea what the cost of the crank seal was magua? if I do this i'll probably do the big end at the same time rather than risk it. I've already stuck new powervalves into it - so i'm half bloody way now lol. I'm just glad I haven't seized it or screwed the whole thing. If I'd topped it up the first time I dont think i would've checked it again now and probably would've blown the engine, so that was lucky ... in a depressing kind of way. :angry:

[Magua]

Oil Seal 25X36X6 - $21.33
Oil Seal 36X52X7 - $53.33

Could be one of those two, I'll scan the invoice tommorow.

[FruitLooPs]

i'd wager that buzzing/hissing/rattling sound is the munted seal.

Mine never used to do it when you started this thread, but my bike certainly sounds more like yours now (its not clunking, but its not smooth) so I dont think i've damaged anything but i've certainly got a munted seal.

At the same time my idle has risen from 2k to 4k and it slowly drops down to 2k after sitting. When I first did the oil change, it was straight after changing my powervalves - there was no or had only been that sound for a short amount of time.

The oil that came out i'd say is 900ml or so, i didnt notice at the time. From then it would've been drinking it, im glad I noticed! I'm not sure if i should ride it at all now, even with regular top ups and babying until i can pull it to bits. :bye:

I intend to do this seal myself, if its cheap enough.

[oyster]

I've been involved in fixing Rg 150's and have brought many back from the dead. 2 years ago we had 3 RG's racing in the South Island, we know have exactly 50, and I pretty well know the history of all of them. They are very reliable, but we now know of some basic "dos" and "don'ts" relating to keeping them this way. You're welcome to pm me for contact details and I can help you specifically.

[FruitLooPs]

Oh man oyster you just made my day!

I was looking through the service manual thinking 'oh dear god no! its only some seals' :shutup:

I'll PM you now, I would like any help I can get! :yes: :rockon:

[georgiepie]

Wow looking at those photos of the powervalves brought back memories! Bastard bloody thing! But locktite eventually made it see things my way.
Some of you guys have had real bad luck with your RG's, i managed 53000kms on mine before I seized it. :bye: I sold it 3000km later and still wish i hadn't.

[FruitLooPs]

:bye: I sold it 3000km later and still wish i hadn't.

Well if you wanna buy one back... I've got a minter (definition may vary) here, i'd even guarantee it'll make it down my driveway under its own power! Don't come much better than that :blip: :blah:

Getting back to the issue at hand .. looks expensive for me too, at least $500 depending on what I have done. :sick: Stupid ass, last time I buy a 2-stroke with 4x,xxxkm's on it for an inflated price.

Bit late now though, so I might just have to bite the bullet.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Unlucky FruitLooPs

Hope you get going soon :yes:

[Magua]

There was no "one" reason why mine died, they said to use better oil from now on, but these things happen.

[FruitLooPs]

Hmm curious, was thinking the seal might've been the weakeness. You didnt notice any lack of engine oil inside it? I'd still be thinking the seal was depriving it of oil - but oh well.

Such is life huh mate, whats the deal with you? got it sorted?

[Magua]

Oh so very close. I've got a new brake lever, I'm now after a new clutch cable and lever and i'll be back on the road. Being optimistic, friday.

[FruitLooPs]

While you're just finishing, im just beginning :yes:

36471
36472
36473

So yeah, it had all the oil hiding away in there somewhere :gob: Still cant figure out that rattle, so out with the engine and off to get worked on. I'll keep this updated if I can.

Since there was obviously too much oil in it, some has come out from what appears to be the front sprocket seal and gotten onto the chain and flicked up :nono: Sorry for the pic size/quality etc pics off phone cam + poor lighting

[Magua]

Loving the black frame. _b

[FruitLooPs]

Well the bastards out, bloody hell the main engine and swingarm pivot bolt is torqued up mad tight. Had to improvise and use a bicycle seat post as an extension to the socket set and get some incredible force by way of a friends weight before it budged. Not even a mallet tap or 20 would loosen it up without the extension, which worked remarkably well (thanks raleigh 20!)

Anyhow, emailing pics is painful. I have one to show so far. Haha had no bike stand, an old chair handled the job admirably actually. :Punk:

Now its out, i'll clean it up and i've decided because of the complexity of the job i'll let oyster have a shot at it I think. :yes:

No doubt i'll come off somewhat lighter, but hopefully with a big silly grin :D

36911

36912

Worst bike stand ... ever ;) I'll get some kitty litter onto that oil slick too!

[Magua]

Nicejob!

Yeah that main socket was crazy tight. I eneded up borrowing a torque wrench about four times the length of my socket wrench. Made short work of it.

[FruitLooPs]

Well with a whole lotta luck I might have the engine sorted by friday. Its at oysters being taken care of now :rockon: If you read this cheers so much mate, good to know we have such a skilled enthusiast in chch to call upon. :first:

I might put some pictures up if I do happen to get the engine back this week, if not - it'll be a good while before anything happens.

What ended up happening to your one Magua?