Cops and that pepper spray

[slimjim]

fuck boy,, that copper on tv has fucked up big time,,and to do it in front of a camera ,oops, well hope that guys lawyer get's a good payout for the pain and sufficering,, shit and now there's a internal invest,, haha :corn: :puke: should be a giggle:kick:

[madboy]

Who knows what the full story is, God knows the Police Complaints Authority and news media won't, but either way the dumbass should have looked around for the camera first.

[Switch]

aw i missed this. What channel was it on? and what was it? did anyone record it?

[slimjim]

tv3, also then had campell talking with the poor prick that got sprayed,his hands were handcuffed behind his back,he was laying on the carpark on his back facing the two coppers ,when one of the fuckers leens down and starts to spray the poor lad straight into eye's, and all this in front of a tv camera,,

[Hitcher]

Please god, not another "I hate the cops" thread...

[Switch]

tv3, also then had campell talking with the poor prick that got sprayed,his hands were handcuffed behind his back,he was laying on the carpark on his back facing the two coppers ,when one of the fuckers leens down and starts to spray the poor lad straight into eye's, and all this in front of a tv camera,,

wow would be interesting to see what happens about this :psst:

[Smorg]

That pepper sprays some painfull shit, I wouldnt want to be on the receiving end of it more than once. By the looks of the photo by guy was pretty well tied up and retrained without the use of pepper spray.....(im not cop bashing)

[slimjim]

Please god, not another "I hate the cops" thread...

no mate this one is no hate coppers,:corn: sit back and:apint: watch all:slap: and the bad shit it the fan:baby:

[Madness]

From what I've seen, and in my humble, unqualified opinion. It didn't appear to be a reasonable use of force. Nice to see someone in a suit getting fucked over for a change though I must say.

[vtec]

Please god, not another "I hate the cops" thread...

We don't hate the police, we just hate what they do. No morals. Simple.

[miSTa]

Did look a little unnecessary....

[WINJA]

that was bullshit , the pig that did the spraying should be jailed and the pigs that just stood there and watched should be fired , and the pigs wonder why public opinion is at an all time low .
wheres the fucken respect for other humans , the guy was prolly drunk and very disorderly but even taffe hotene didnt get treated that bad , with an attitude like that the cop that did the spraying will end up like murray stretch , fucken arsehole .
and this is just the stuff we see , the tip of the iceberg so to speak and its about time that judges took seriousy police brutality with jail sentences for offending cops that are twice the duration of a civilian , if these cops are weeded out it will ultimately make the honest hardworking cops jobs just a little easier , but as long as cops are willing to stand there and watch another cop do this theyve got a big job ahead of them

[Biff]

Two words.

Arse biscuits. :corn:

[bobsmith]

Fuck that shit, fucking pigs.

One of my best friends thought he wanted to be a fucking pig for a little while. I convinced him otherwise luckly (I had just about everyone else around him thinking it was a good idea to be a pig too, moralless bastards)

I don't hate pigs because of what they are, I simply hate them since majority of them seems to have no morals or intelligence, and they do not act in a suitable mannor for a public servant. Infact I'm sure most of them don't even know what the meaning of public servant is, half of the bastards think they own the fucking country. If they want to be regarded with respect, they must first learn to treat the public with much more respect than they expect.

Why I was driving along one day minding my own business when one idiotic wanker in piggy uniform pulls me over then says "Where the hell do you think you are going in such a hurry mate?" Now I was astonished it wasn't some stupid boyracer talking to me but rather a "police OFFICER" I told the bastard, "Firstly, I'm not going anywhere near in a hurry, and secondly I don't believe we are aquainted" in a very polite tone. The idiot went back and ran some "checks" on my car and my licence took his fucking time about it and told me to go in about 15minutes. Result: waste of 15 minutes of my time, my life shortened by 15months due to stress and anger, and my attitude about these so called "public servants" in new zealand - completely unchanged (I never liked them before)

It's about time these idiotic pigs got a wakeup call. I don't ever expect these idiots to be "professional" with the attitude this country has about "law enforcement" but hopefully at least this will reduce the number of pigs thinking that they are the law.

[vtec]

Here's my take on what's gone so wrong with the police.

Firstly the law. Our laws have been designed to cover every conceivable situation where anything that can be dissapproved of can be punished, this was to give the police powers to sort out any kind of problem. All well and good if said police understood that the laws were designed to give powers, and not necessarily to be enforced to the absolute limit all the time. The laws are designed around the lowest common denominator, but are often enforced in situations that are totally unsuitable.

Police management is the main problem. The second problem is that many police start to get a rush out of the power that they receive when put in this position. Power does corrupt, not necessarily in a legal sense, but definitely in a moral sense. And this is further aggravated by the general type of people who become police officers. The only people I know who've considered joining the force are, dropouts, weed smokers, and bullies, also people who have failed at nearly everything else. I know one cop who is a genuine good dude, but he's definitely not impressed with how they run things and the attitude towards the public of his fellow officers. The force deserves no respect from me.

[Sniper]

The bastard deserved it. Hopefully next time he won't threaten the cops mother.

[Squeak the Rat]

It's called assault. The only difference between you and me is that this guy wasn't arrested by a policeman who witnessed it. The only reason he is going to be "disciplined" is because it was captured on video.

Same shit different day.

[Lazy7]

guy deserved it. low life scum.

people need to get used to the fact that when you fuck up, you pay the price.

simple as that. no other argument worth making.

[jimbo600]

I say fuck him. He was probably a pissed twat getting all gobby. Its only OC spray. It wont kill him. Cops spray it on themselves for training from time to time. I'm betting he got pissed, got all inspired by the fight night thing and thought he'd have a go at someone. A bit of spray does you good anyway. Good on chili I hear.

[Lias]

I concur.. Twat in suit almost certainly deserved it. He was being a drunken prat which is why he was arrested in the first place.

[Pixie]

The cops claim they knew the camera was there.
In which case the cop with the spray should be fired for extreme naivete

[Ixion]

I concur.. Twat in suit almost certainly deserved it. He was being a drunken prat which is why he was arrested in the first place.

Whether he deserved it or not is not the point.

The police are (or ought to be) a disciplined force.If they're not, then the country has a BIG problem.

There are rules and procedures about the use of pepper spray (and lots of other things).

Once cops decide that they can ignore their own rules of engagement, then they cease to be a disciplined force. And , by definition, would no longer be fit to be trusted with the powers we grant them

[ManDownUnder]

Two words.

Arse biscuits. :corn:

2 please. Do they come with batteries included?

[thatHurt]

Talking to some of the police involved the guy thoroughly deserved it..

Talking to the "COPS"?! Of course they're gonna say he deserved it. I haven't seen the footage but if someone is restrained with handcuffs there is no reason to use the spray. Just fucken gutless I reckon.

[Biff]

2 please. Do they come with batteries included?

Nope. They're powered by mains elastictrickery.

[ManDownUnder]

Nope. They're powered by mains elastictrickery.

he HEEEEEEEEEE 240V rectal stimulation. Something the average person isn't likely to forget in a hurry.

Are these US army surplus from Abu Grabe?

[ManDownUnder]

... was being a drunken prat which is why he was arrested in the first place.

Mate - I think we've all been there (or close) at some point. It ain't reason enough to be pepper sprayed.

Possible harm to himself, the officer or others - yes. Needed to be subdued, yes... but the guy was in handcuffs. What the fuck could he really do beyond lying there being uncomfortable?

Or was he being a potty mouth - in which case the officer needs his head read?

Once they're in cuffs I think it'd be hard to ever justify use of the spray. I look forward to what those in power find out and say. I'd love to see the whole thing go before the courts to be honest
MDU

[bobsmith]

If you would have done the same thing as the piggy, it's good that you're not a pig, and if you are, well you shouldn't be...

It doesn't matter if he deserved it. We have pigs to enforce law and they need to obey the bloody law. I agree that the piggies should use all the force they can to enforce the law and if they need to make an arrest, etc... but once a person is restrained, the use of force will not achieve anything besides giving the fucking pig a high. It doesn't matter if the guy's been running around killing people, or just killed someone they knew, seeing that I'm not a pig, I will kill any bastard that just killed someone I knew, but there is a reason why I'm not a pig. However if you're a pig in uniform, and you have already restrained the person, there is no reason you should use anymore force beyond that point and you shouldn't.

Bloody hell, if everyone thinks this is ok, why don't we give the fucking pigs torture devices and say, "arrest criminals, restrain them, then punish them for their crimes as you see fit." There is a reason that the prosecution and delivery of punishment is left to someone who is not hot headed. With this kind of attitude, no wonder this country is going nowhere.

[ManDownUnder]

If you would have done the same thing as the piggy, it's good that you're not a pig, and if you are, well you shouldn't be...snip...

And here's me thinking the Police were involved...

[bobsmith]

And here's me thinking the Police were involved...

I'm sorry, I thought it was well understood that a lot of people refer to "the Police" as pigs. Perhaps I should have chosen a less intelligent animal to refer to "the police" as that may make it easier for people to relate the animal to the police. I suppose it should start with P though.... Let me think on that for a while.

[ManDownUnder]

I'm sorry, I thought it was well understood that a lot of people refer to "the Police" as pigs. Perhaps I should have chosen a less intelligent animal to refer to "the police" as that may make it easier for people to relate the animal to the police. I suppose it should start with P though.... Let me think on that for a while.

Good move - and I'll work on BS while you're at it.

Why rark people up just because you can?

[bobsmith]

I don't "rack" people up because I can, (well I do but it's not the case here), I simply believe in morals and I get annoyed when people don't, and I get angry seeing human stupidity. (I'm more or less permanently angry around people)

I for one used to believe that one day the system may work, and I hate it when my hopes are crushed again and again by witnessing these ridiculous idiocy then feel sick when I realise that the public will actually put up with it and some even think that it's ok.

[ManDownUnder]

I don't "rack" people up because I can, (well I do but it's not the case here), I simply believe in morals and I get annoyed when people don't, and I get angry seeing human stupidity. (I'm more or less permanently angry around people)

I for one used to believe that one day the system may work, and I hate it when my hopes are crushed again and again by witnessing these ridiculous idiocy then feel sick when I realise that the public will actually put up with it and some even think that it's ok.

Hey Bull Shit, here's an innovative thought for ya. Grow up and get with the program. If you're going to quote me, get it right - I said "rark", not "rack".

If you see a problem - try to fix it. Calling people names (Police/Pigs) introduces new problems and complicates it considerably. What's the point? If you want someone to listen to you, don't piss 'em off.

Yup - You'll come back firing on that one - because I called you bullshit? Don't on purpose mate... to illustrate my point. And no this wasn't edit after the fact - check to see if there's an edit timestamp in the bottom of the post... don;t you hate it when you're outsmarted?

[bobsmith]

It's sad to see that you didn't notice me trying to "fix" the problem.

Seeing that one side has used the ever so creative "grow up" defence (offence) I will sit here hope to hell that I'm getting taller, always wanted to be able to sit on bigger bikes with my feel on the ground. On the other hand, I can only hope that the other party would mature mentally, see past the name calling and look at the real issue, but then again, I am the unrealistic and hopeful kind, as we have established am I not?

It's sad, people seem to "grow up" and get older but they never seem to mature mentally.

[ManDownUnder]

It's sad to see that you didn't notice me trying to "fix" the problem.

Seeing that one side has used the ever so creative "grow up" defence (offence) I will sit here hope to hell that I'm getting taller, always wanted to be able to sit on bigger bikes with my feel on the ground. On the other hand, I can only hope that the other party would mature mentally, see past the name calling and look at the real issue, but then again, I am the unrealistic and hopeful kind, as we have established am I not?

It's sad, people seem to "grow up" and get older but they never seem to mature mentally.

Yup - you came back firing... because I called you names? Because I got insulting? Just as I expected you would (highlight the bottom of the last post, check out the invisible text... complete with typos - sorry).

You and I agree that something needs to be done. I have agreed that from the beginning (see my post - #28 in this thread). The VERY point I was trying to make is that if you come out punching, those you're trying to communicate with won't give you the time of day.

Just as you didn't give me the time of day when I got belligerant with you and called you names, telling you what to do in less than respectful tones.

Like I previously said, slow down, stop calling the Police names and you'll have more success.

[bobsmith]

Uhhhh it would have been "invisible" if it wasn't email to me in black and white the minute you posted it???

For your information, I would have come back firing even if you didn't call me bullshit, evident from the fact that I kept on "firing" before you got offensive or called names.

Obviously if I was trying to communicate with p(@$^ I wouldn't call them names, but note how the post was directed at public not the p@*$^. If I was trying to communicate with p(#%* I would use much simpler words and make my posts shorter so that they can read it without getting bored. Oh and it would probably take the form of a letter, not a post on a public forum.

Besides I wouldn't dream of calling p(*#$%^ names directly to them. They will probably handcuff me, push me onto the ground and spray pepper sprays into my eyes - ouch!

Well thanks for letting me know that if you go around attcking someone, calling them names, they will try to fight back... I would never have guessed. Something about being humans I suppose.

[ManDownUnder]

Uhhhh it would have been "invisible" if it wasn't email to me in black and white the minute you posted it???

For your information, I would have come back firing even if you didn't call me bullshit, evident from the fact that I kept on "firing" before you got offensive or called names.

Obviously if I was trying to communicate with p(@$^ I wouldn't call them names, but note how the post was directed at public not the p@*$^. If I was trying to communicate with p(#%* I would use much simpler words and make my posts shorter so that they can read it without getting bored. Oh and it would probably take the form of a letter, not a post on a public forum.

Besides I wouldn't dream of calling p(*#$%^ names directly to them. They will probably handcuff me, push me onto the ground and spray pepper sprays into my eyes - ouch!

Well thanks for letting me know that if you go around attcking someone, calling them names, they will try to fight back... I would never have guessed. Something about being humans I suppose.

DOH - forgot about email notification formatting. :slap: .

So calling the Police "pigs" online rather to their face helps?

Mate - we agree on the issue, we agree on what's needed, we simply disagree on the abusive vs diplomatic approach.

[Colapop]

Mmmmm Pepper spray... good for steak.

[marty]

If I was trying to communicate with p(#%* I would use much simpler words and make my posts shorter so that they can read it without getting bored. .

i was bored reading your bullshit uneducated drivel about 23 posts ago




Besides I wouldn't dream of calling p(*#$%^ names directly to them. They will probably handcuff me, push me onto the ground and spray pepper sprays into my eyes - ouch!

pussy

[madboy]

I'm trying to stay out of this, cos whether we like it or not, or whether this thread was intended to or not, it does all become about cop bashing.

What concerns me is the lack of professionalism. I've just got off the phone with someone whom I have no time for, was rude to me, and quite frankly seeing him crying like a girl rubbing his eyes kinda appeals to me. But professionlism stops me from reacting. Based on Speedmedics post it sounds like the guy was running his mouth. So everytime an ambo turns up to someone running their mouth, do they poke a finger into the wound to annoy the guy? No, they don't, it's called professionalism.

What I saw on TV was a guy on the ground handcuffed with two (or was it more?) cops standing looking down on him. Then one cop aims the spray and lets loose. Why? That's what I want to know. Why? What did that achieve? What was professional about that activity? None of the officers appeared to be taking a stance to indicate they feared for their safety or that of others. He appeared to already be in custody. So why?

I don't see how being a cock justifies what appears to be an extreme lapse in professionalism. Otherwise I've got a pretty good defence for the next time I meet a cop who's a cock. What do you reckon the chances are if I smack the guy I'll get away with?

[WINJA]

Talking to some of the police involved the guy thoroughly deserved it. If you guys had seen the full picture and audio (subtly edited by TV3), you woulda done the same thing or worse.
The only reason theres an investigation is because there was a "Use of Force" form filled out, which is mandatory after pepper spray and the likes.
Get over yourselves you wankers, if you think you can do a better job then why dont you try.
SO WHAT YOUR SAYING IS THAT IN THE POLICES OWN OPINION HE DESRVED TO BE SPRAYED , AS LONG AS HES NOT A RAPIST OR KIDDY FIDDLER I CANT SEE WHY THEY WOULD HAVE A REASON TO PUNISH THE GUY , HE MAY BE AN ARSEHOLE HE MAYBE A FUCKEN JERK BUT ITS NEVER THE PIGS ROLE TO DISH OUT PUNISHMENT , PUNISHMENT IS THE JOB OF A JURY OR JUDGE NOT A PIG WHOSE ALL CAUGHT UP IN THE MOMENT. AS FOR DOING A BETTER JOB THATS NOT VERY HARD BUT I NEVER CHOOSE THAT AS MY JOB SO ILL DO MY JOB WELL AND I EXPECT THE PIGS TO DO THE SAME , NO IFS NO BUTS NO EXCUSES THAT COP NEEDS TO GO TO JAIL TO SEND A CLEAR MESSAGE.

I JUST MET A YOUNG GUY TODAY , HE'S A BIT OF A WISE ARSE AND HE SAYS THE PIGS DISH OUT HIDINGS TO HIS MATES OR HIM FREQUENTLY , THEY SPEED AND THEY DO STOP AND THEY MOUTH OFF BUT ITS STILL GIVES THE PIGS NO RIGHT TO GET PHYSICAL , NEXT THEYLL BE DEFENDING THEMSELVES WITH A VILOENT ACT AGAINST THE POLICE AND I DONT BLAME THEM , THEY CAN ACCEPT THE TICKETS BUT THEY WONT BE TOLERATING THE PUNCHES TO THE HEAD MUCH LONGER

[WINJA]

I concur.. Twat in suit almost certainly deserved it. He was being a drunken prat which is why he was arrested in the first place.
THE GUY DESERVED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS ACTIONS IN COURT NOT TO BE SPRAYED WITH PEPPER SPRAY WHILE DEFENCELESS , I DONT KNOW WHY YOU GUYS CANT SEE HOW COWARDLY THAT PIGS ACTIONS WERE , LET HIM STAND UP GIVE HIM A BASEBALL BAT AND THEN SPRAY HIM ,THAT IS WHAT THE SPRAY IS FOR AFTER ALL , NOT TORTURING PEOPLE .

[MSTRS]

THE GUY DESERVED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS ACTIONS IN COURT NOT TO BE SPRAYED WITH PEPPER SPRAY WHILE DEFENCELESS , I DONT KNOW WHY YOU GUYS CANT SEE HOW COWARDLY THAT PIGS ACTIONS WERE , LET HIM STAND UP GIVE HIM A BASEBALL BAT AND THEN SPRAY HIM ,THAT IS WHAT THE SPRAY IS FOR AFTER ALL , NOT TORTURING PEOPLE .
Exactly. Pepper spray is a DEFENCE weapon. What did that cop think he needed defending from?

[Skyryder]

It was the action of a bully. They come in all shapes and sizes. But bullys all have one thing in common they act in packs. The cop was in a pack 'wanting' to be the 'tuff' guy. Probably why he joined.

Skyryder

[Winston001]

SO WHAT YOUR SAYING IS THAT IN THE POLICES OWN OPINION HE DESRVED TO BE SPRAYED , AS LONG AS HES NOT A RAPIST OR KIDDY FIDDLER I CANT SEE WHY THEY WOULD HAVE A REASON TO PUNISH THE GUY , HE MAY BE AN ARSEHOLE HE MAYBE A FUCKEN JERK BUT ITS NEVER THE PIGS ROLE TO DISH OUT PUNISHMENT , PUNISHMENT IS THE JOB OF A JURY OR JUDGE NOT A PIG WHOSE ALL CAUGHT UP IN THE MOMENT. AS FOR DOING A BETTER JOB THATS NOT VERY HARD BUT I NEVER CHOOSE THAT AS MY JOB SO ILL DO MY JOB WELL AND I EXPECT THE PIGS TO DO THE SAME , NO IFS NO BUTS NO EXCUSES THAT COP NEEDS TO GO TO JAIL TO SEND A CLEAR MESSAGE.

I JUST MET A YOUNG GUY TODAY , HE'S A BIT OF A WISE ARSE AND HE SAYS THE PIGS DISH OUT HIDINGS TO HIS MATES OR HIM FREQUENTLY , THEY SPEED AND THEY DO STOP AND THEY MOUTH OFF BUT ITS STILL GIVES THE PIGS NO RIGHT TO GET PHYSICAL , NEXT THEYLL BE DEFENDING THEMSELVES WITH A VILOENT ACT AGAINST THE POLICE AND I DONT BLAME THEM , THEY CAN ACCEPT THE TICKETS BUT THEY WONT BE TOLERATING THE PUNCHES TO THE HEAD MUCH LONGER

I agree with WINJA. Police are trained not to react to abuse etc. Just like ambos and firemen. They all deal with people in situations of stress when attitudes can get out of control. But being professional means you suck it up and ensure the citizen doesn't accidentally bump into a few doors while you are "helping" him. :D

From what I saw, a young constable reached to his belt, leaned forward slightly, sprayed at the man on the ground and then put the spray back on his belt. It was amazingly casual. No anger or aggressive moves by the officer - it was almost incidental to whatever else he and the other officers were discussing.

Bad look. That boys a gone coon.

[myvice]

I wonder why we dont arm them?

[madboy]

Did you guys see the new commissioner on Campbell Live tonight? I was actually impressed. It sounds like he wants to do something about the culture. Good luck, it's gonna be one hell of an uphill battle for him. But if he was actually being honest (which I hope he was) then it's gotta be good news.

[Hitcher]

I spent a chunk of today working with Howard Broad -- for the first time. He seems like a pretty genuine dude.

[vs04]

I agree with WINJA. Police are trained not to react to abuse etc. Just like ambos and firemen. They all deal with people in situations of stress when attitudes can get out of control. But being professional means you suck it up and ensure the citizen doesn't accidentally bump into a few doors while you are "helping" him. :D

From what I saw, a young constable reached to his belt, leaned forward slightly, sprayed at the man on the ground and then put the spray back on his belt. It was amazingly casual. No anger or aggressive moves by the officer - it was almost incidental to whatever else he and the other officers were discussing.

Bad look. That boys a gone coon.
You stole my thunder there mate.The cop was extemely casual about it,i would even go as far to say that he probably enjoyed it.I have two brothers in the force [actually one has left]the other is a sargent,two of the biggest cunts you,d ever want to meet.I,ve sat and listened to stories by these two, and their cop mates about the shit that they get up to just to piss the general public off.The reason these pricks have a tough job is because they,ve made it tough for themselves, i hope the assnole gets struck down for it but i would,nt hold my breath.

[vs04]

You stole my thunder there mate.The cop was extemely casual about it,i would even go as far to say that he probably enjoyed it.I have two brothers in the force [actually one has left]the other is a sargent,two of the biggest cunts you,d ever want to meet.I,ve sat and listened to stories by these two, and their cop mates about the shit that they get up to just to piss the general public off.The reason these pricks have a tough job is because they,ve made it tough for themselves, i hope the assnole gets struck down for it but i would,nt hold my breath.
And before somebody says something,no i dont know what an assnole is,asshole, yes, assnole, i,m not sure.

[Jantar]

And before somebody says something,no i dont know what an assnole is,asshole, yes, assnole, i,m not sure.

An asshole is a hole you put an ass into. Maybe you meant an Arsehole? :corn: :corn:

[number33]

Look we're all in agreement that police brutality has its place, mainly on child molesters rapists burglars mongies lawyers honda riders etc... but for that jack booted gestapo to spray that dude - that sucks. That cop can thank his lucky stars I aint the police commissioner. I'd have the bastard charged with crimes to humanity, frog marched to a brick wall and executed immediately. No hesitation. Luckily the cops are getting new stun-guns soon, so motorcyclists needn't worry about pepperspray. A few 50,000 volt blasts administered thru your kidneys will soon quieten ya. he he

[slimjim]

matey,, normally put this thread in rant and rave:corn:

[MrMelon]

I rate your troll L for lame.

[mdb]

The odd thing is that the cops knew they were being videoed. Makes you think there is something going on we either didn't see or can't here (not that I think the cop was right).

[terbang]

Yup saw it on Campbel and it doesn't look good at all with the guy laying down on the ground and the Jack booted Rozzer just casually unholsters his spray can and gives this poor bastard a good facial whilst a couple of his other gangster mates (blue shirts) just stand around watching as if nothing was out of order.
They had the new comissioner (Broad I think) and he seemed a reasonable sort of a bloke, Campbel asked some hard line stuff and it is the first time I have ever seen the police publicly face an issue like this, and question their own method without putting the usual hard line closed ranks type of spin. Ups to him (glad we didnt get Rickard) and I hope it goes down hard on Mr trigger happy spraying Rozzer and his Ilk.

[Andrew]

1984.............

[wendigo]

I see the positive side of this.

Surely the police are bound by the very same laws they enforce. This being the case, if the officer involved is not charged with torture, this sets a precedent. This precedent of course is that its perfectly legal to torture scumbags.

I don't like scumbags. I think they've getting away with murder for years.

So I say thank you to that officer. He has empowered the victim of crime to rise up and torture the criminal without any fear of retribution from The Law.

[Indoo]

Talking to some of the police involved the guy thoroughly deserved it. If you guys had seen the full picture and audio (subtly edited by TV3), you woulda done the same thing or worse.
The only reason theres an investigation is because there was a "Use of Force" form filled out, which is mandatory after pepper spray and the likes.
Get over yourselves you wankers, if you think you can do a better job then why dont you try.

Hey don't try to add any balance to it or perspective, the usual suspects saw it on T.V. Its game over rover, they saw it on T.V so hung drawn and quartered.

Its funny that the pillar of the community who attacked the cops and is milking this for all its worth also failed to appear in court!

Although if I still blindly believed the media to be an unbiased organisation only seeking the truth, not a story or an agenda, I might be the same way. Unfortunately you have the media and lawyers who lie for a living presenting one side of the story and the Police who are unable to present any balance incase they prejudice the case and it gets thrown out.

If there is nothing more to it than was what was shown on T.V then sure the cops involved should be nailed, but I have a feeling there is alot more to it than what they decided to show.

[vs04]

An asshole is a hole you put an ass into. Maybe you meant an Arsehole? :corn: :corn:
Yeah that to. different spelling same meaning:zzzz:

[GR81]

they often twist the story to make for better tv

the mark richardson vs stephen fleming blowout was a typical case of 'tv without knowing the full story'

[Cookie]

A bit of spray in the face should be part of the standard arrest procedure.

"No smoke without fire" - that's what uncle Cookie says!

[Squeak the Rat]

shown on T.V then sure the cops involved should be nailed, but I have a feeling there is alot more to it than what they decided to show.

If there is something else to it then it was either:
1/ It occured before he was restrained. If this is the case then see previous posts about professionalism.
2/ The guy was verbally abusing the cops. THIS DOES NOT JUSTIFY PEPPER SPRAY, BEATINGS OR ANY OTHER FORM OF ASSAULT. If some one abused me or threatened my mother and I attacked them I would be before a court.
3/ The guy was struggling. Well, they managed to cuff him ok without pepper spray, so I'm sure they could get him into the paddy wagon also.

Sure this guy may have deserved to get dealt to, but it is the job of the courts to decide that, and to decide on the punishment. If our society accepts that this is a role for the cops then we are living in a police state.

[The_Dover]

I hear Wendy's are hiring.

[Winston001]

The only excuse I can think of is if the offender knew one cop and said that he was going to get his kids. That would probably get to most of us. But in that case the officers would have reacted with anger. Instead they hardly noticed that the spray was used - all very casual and relaxed.

[mummy rider]

I understand sometimes the police are put under pressure and yes sometimes these sprays need to be used but to make a judgement on this we really need to see the whole picture not just what the TV wants us to view.

I recently had a bloke drive thru my front yard fence, back out and try to drive away, I had to jump thru his drivers window and fight for the keys, luckily a mate was passing and stopped me from bashing the bastard with the kids baseball bat and when I did place my call I was put thru to a answer machine as our local coppa doesn't start till 10am. The accident was at 9.42am., by the time I found a live person on the line it was in CHCH and had to wait till 11.20am for a Hornby HWY patrol.....
The reason I was pissed off that I had six kids playing in the yard, (not all mine) he was then done for dangerous driving, falling to stop at the scene of an accident, no WOF or REG, no licence, breath tested but hey the time had passed, and the driver then had the balls to ask that assault charges be laid against me.

What do you do when your on the receiving end?

P.S, he only just missed the shed with the BMW Triumph and Honda in it....

[Fluffy Cat]

Good thread, let that anger out.
Was once a cop and that was out of order he should be stuck on for that one. Very dumb, and the camara does not lie, there may be more to it ie verbals. But the man was restrained, doubt he will lose his job though. Might get a fine and slap on wrist. This is NZ you kill without reason 15 years. So slap on wrist.

[Squeak the Rat]

Just for the record I can understand why cops would want to do that sort of thing in certain circumstances. But that doesn't make it right.

A number of years ago I had a cop tell me that I "fucken deserved" being pushed backwards hard onto the concrete (minor bruising etc), and next time I shouldn't be "such a fucking prick".

Why did I deserve it? I was slightly drunk, didn't see the cop about to run past me and I stepped in front of him. In their eyes I did it on purpose to piss the cops off.

Doesn't make me hate cops, far from it. But it does make me a little cynical of the "he deserved it" argument.

[spudchucka]

After reading most of this thread I struggle to find any reason to reply at all. But....

On the face of it, (the footage shown on TV) it certainly does look bad. But.....

What pissess me off about the media is that they will show an isolated portion of an incident that they deem to be news worthy and that portion of the incident alone is not representative of the entire incident. If they are going to show an incident like that why don't they show they entire incident? At least then you bunch of moaning twits will see the incident in context.

I've sprayed people who have been handcuffed quite a few times, each time was totally justified. A few incidents that come to mind:

1: Crazy woman gets locked up for assault, handcuffed, placed in back of car, while driving to the station lies on her back and kicks the cop driving, the car (me) in the head, then tries to kick me through the gap between the front seats. SPRAY - no more kicking, all arrive safely at the station.

2: Street violence, fight involving 3 - 4 drunk guys, all get locked up, one idiot who had been given a good crack and had a profusely bleeding nose and mouth kept on trying to spit blood on the cops and the other guys he'd been fighting with, he was handcuffed at the time but was still spoiling for a fight with anybody that would respond. SPRAY - no more blood spitting, the idiot sits down and cries.

: Mental & suicidal person, locked up to prevent suicide, it took three cops to get this person under control, once handcuffed they started to bite chunks out of their arms. SPRAY - stopped self harming for a little while, maybe ten minutes then started up again, was eventually fully hog tied, (arms and legs behind the back and linked together), which is a more dangerous method of restraint than OC spray due to the risk of positional asphyxia.

Whats to say the guy wasn't self harming, biting, spitting or sucking himself off in plain view of the prime minister. You certainly wouldn't know from the news article.

Greg O'Connor said the cops knew they were being filmed, conclusion, the cop was either an idiot with a desire to be sacked and publicly humiliated or his actions were totally justified and he had no reason to be concerned about being filmed.

But fuck it, you guys are the experts, just like Keith Locke the self appointed expert on all things policing and military, you've all made your minds up based soley on a TV news report. They'll have their enquiry and in 12 months time the result won't even make the news and all you lot will remember is the images played on TV - fucken pigs, immoral, corrupt arseholes!

[oldrider]

Winstone001 saw it the same way that I saw it.
Nothing going on for quite some minutes and then the cop on the right casually leans slightly over and casually gives the guy on the ground a dusting!
He then casually holsters the sprayer and appears to continue the casual chat.
The whole thing seemed to be so laid back and surreal.
I just sat there watching the screen thinking to myself, I wonder what that would be like if you were wearing contact lenses? (SpeedMedic??)
I think the nation suffers from too much exposure to special effect TV and movies.
The poor old cops are out there in the real world 24/7 protecting our interests and all we seem to do is kick them in the balls when they fuck up and now we treat our soldiers the same way.
Old saying: We reap what we sow! :yes: Cheers John.

[Ixion]

It is true that sometimes TV coverage is edited, and may not portray the full story. But I do not see that the police have any grounds to object to the matter being investigated. Their position then is the same as many people have found themselves in when , for instance, defending their homes. The police response is always "Well, it is not up to us to decide if what you did is right or wrong. There is prima facie evidence, so we will arrest and charge you, and leave it to the courts to decide".

In this case, there would certainly seem to be prima facie evidence . And as the cops involved are not being charged just investigated by the PCA, who are themselves cops, they will certainly have an easier time than Joe Public would.

[Patrick]

TV3 camera on the blink? Tens of Thousands of dollars for those cameras. No sound at all...??? Insert Tui moment here...

Sure looked bad. Nice editing!

No doubt the enquiry will obtain footage including sound...and events leading up to the arrest as well as after etc.

But hey, lets convict and shoot the cop now, without trial, etc etc... deny him the rights every one else has... including kiddie fiddlers/murderers etc...

I'd rather await the result of the full investigation before convicting, hanging and whipping the cop, but only when the full story is out.

Yep, sure as hell looks badfrom that snippet on TV. Yep, he knew he was being filmed. More to this story??? Hhmmmmmmmmm.............

[marty]

Winstone001 saw it the same way that I saw it.
Nothing going on for quite some minutes and then the cop on the right casually leans slightly over and casually gives the guy on the ground a dusting!
.

oh how easily the lines of truth are blurred.

i'm sure i only saw about 5 seconds of activity before he was sprayed. where did you see 'quite some minutes' of same?

and it was the cop on the guys left.

and believe me, you don't have to be angry to spray someone. it may (should) have been a calculated decision to do so.

the guys mate standing there didn't seem too perturbed by it all - was he aware that the spray was imminent?

[Patrick]

... just investigated by the PCA, who are themselves cops, ..

Not quite right. PCA is independent from Police. Initial enquiries conducted by Police, but PCA is headed by a judge with a team of investigators. Watch this space, this will go through all the motions, just to show how up front the Police Dept is.

[jimbo600]

1: Crazy woman gets locked up for assault, handcuffed, placed in back of car, while driving to the station lies on her back and kicks the cop driving, the car (me) in the head, then tries to kick me through the gap between the front seats. SPRAY - no more kicking, all arrive safely at the station.

Doesn't that OC spray go everywhere? Thought you might have copped a bit of spray yourself in a confined space such as a car. Thats why I reckon the guy on tv is full of it when he said he was sprayed again in the back of the van.

Bring on Tazers.

[spudchucka]

I do not see that the police have any grounds to object to the matter being investigated.Neither do I. If the incident is such that it requires the use of force then the justification for that use of force should stand up to investigation. As a cop you know this any time that you use force.


In this case, there would certainly seem to be prima facie evidence.Indeed, however, there has been no investigation as yet, only a 20 second video and an interview with the person at the centre of the incident. That and few high profile personalities sticking their beaks in because they have seized on the incident to push their own personal political barrow.


And as the cops involved are not being charged just investigated by the PCA, who are themselves cops, they will certainly have an easier time than Joe Public would.


Not at all. If you could see the level of investigation that goes into a PCA file compared to any other investigation file you would be stunned. But don't believe me, I'm just another pig hiding behind the blue veil of silence.

[spudchucka]

Doesn't that OC spray go everywhere? Thought you might have copped a bit of spray yourself in a confined space such as a car. Thats why I reckon the guy on tv is full of it when he said he was sprayed again in the back of the van.

Bring on Tazers.
It shoots out a fairly fine stream that is aimed directly at the subject but in confined spaces the air will fill with particles, which do effect anyone else in the area. The effect is usually just coughing and watering eyes, not too bad but still pretty unpleasent. It does clean out the sinus passages quite well if you have a cold though.

[Patrick]

Heres some news for ya...

Turns out the guy was arrested for playing up big time, as we know. While playing up, cops were advised, cameraman nearby overheard it and tagged along. Cops asked him to film the goings on, which he did, as it was still happening when they all arrived outside. Filmed the behaviour, the cops trying to talk to him, him firing up and letting loose, eventually being overpowered enough for cuffs to be put on, but that didn't stop him...

But we only see the spray part on TV... go figure...

[The_Dover]

If he was being that raucous why was he not pepper sprayed before he was cuffed?

From what I saw he was in no position to attack the cop, the cop did not look too concerned by the guy and just decided to give him a dose for shits and giggles.

It may be a hard job that the bacon have to do but was it REALLY necessary to pepper spray a cuffed man? Didn't look like it from the comfort of my couch.

[Squeak the Rat]

But hey, lets convict and shoot the cop now, without trial, etc etc... deny him the rights every one else has... including kiddie fiddlers/murderers etc...
Agree, let's not assume the cop is guilty. Using the same arguments, let's not assume he's innocent either.

One thing I'd like to say is that while I don't always agree with what the coppas here say (just like i don't always agree with what everyone else on kb says all the time), I do appreciate posts from you guys as it's good to see others opinions. Good example is Spuds earlier which in the face of perceived criticism was well considered, offered some great points and did what an argument is supposed to do, it made me look at it from a different perspective.

I regret getting sucked into posting in this thread - my points were not well made. No offence was intended to individuals, I blame my current literary constipation on the P. I mean pseudoephedrine..... :bye: thread. see you in the next one.

[Lou Girardin]

You can't argue with what was shown, the guy was cuffed on the ground, barely moving his leg and the cop sprayed him. According to the drunk, he was sprayed again in the wagon. Even if he was calling the cops Mother ten kinds of whore, they're supposed to be above cheap retaliation.
But the worst part is the sheer arrogance of doing it in front of the camera.
Did he think he was untouchable, or did he think that was a legitimate action?
Either way, he needs to be shown he was wrong.

[Pixie]

And before somebody says something,no i dont know what an assnole is,asshole, yes, assnole, i,m not sure.
The Assy Nole
Where the 2nd gunshot came from

[Lou Girardin]

Not quite right. PCA is independent from Police. Initial enquiries conducted by Police, but PCA is headed by a judge with a team of investigators. Watch this space, this will go through all the motions, just to show how up front the Police Dept is.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: The Tui moment of the year.

[Pixie]

.

Whats to say the guy wasn't self harming, biting, spitting or sucking himself off in plain view of the prime minister. You certainly wouldn't know from the news article.


Well if the guy on the video was doing the above,do the following:
Biting-move away
spitting-move away
self harming-wish him well
Auto-fellatio in front of the PM-she wouldn't know what he was doing anyway

[oldrider]

oh how easily the lines of truth are blurred. (by whom??)

i'm sure i only saw about 5 seconds of activity before he was sprayed. where did you see 'quite some minutes' of same? (who's really counting it all seemed slow)

and it was the cop on the guys left. (My right)

and believe me, you don't have to be angry to spray someone. it may (should) have been a calculated decision to do so. (I would have sprayed him long before that)

the guys mate standing there didn't seem too perturbed by it all - was he aware that the spray was imminent?
(I think I inferred that too)
Are you just being a little too emotional to notice that I said the same thing that you have, I was thinking in support of the police. I can't see that the TV clip gave the true picture of the whole event! So who's blurring the truth? Settle down. :nono: John.

[Lou Girardin]

Like this one?:buggerd:

OK I get the poster, but what are you trying to say with the gay smillies?

[Lou Girardin]

Oooo :nya:

I bet night shift with you is 'interesting'.

[marty]

i was a bit. point taken - posts reread - castigated myself accordingly. apologies given.

[vs04]

The Assy Nole
Where the 2nd gunshot came from
I like that,very good

[Skyryder]

After reading most of this thread I struggle to find any reason to reply at all. But....



The guy was cuffed and docile. I've never known anyone to be physicaly injured by the use of their tounge.

But what??

Skyryder

[Hitcher]

I've never known anyone to be physicaly injured by the use of their tounge.
I've never met anybody with a tounge, so am unable to proffer an opinion...

[750Y]

i support the role of police(in general terms). i also like to examine the facts on a case by case basis before forming my conclusions...
"...all he believes are his eyes, but his eyes they just tell lies..".

[notme]

Talking to some of the police involved the guy thoroughly deserved it. If you guys had seen the full picture and audio (subtly edited by TV3), you woulda done the same thing or worse.
The only reason theres an investigation is because there was a "Use of Force" form filled out, which is mandatory after pepper spray and the likes.
Get over yourselves you wankers, if you think you can do a better job then why dont you try.

And therin lies the real issue.

How about from this point onwards we only accept criticism from those who do a similar job huh?
Sounds like another Tui billboard - "yeah right".....

It's easy to be judgemental from behind the safety of a keyboard....

[Patrick]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: The Tui moment of the year.


Yep... I see you're still drinking way too much of the stuff... when it gives you the shits, it's supposed to come out of your arse...

[Lou Girardin]

Yep... I see you're still drinking way too much of the stuff... when it gives you the shits, it's supposed to come out of your arse...

Perhaps.
But I see that Howard Broad and Mark Burton have just announced that legislation is going to be introduced to enable an INDEPENDANT Police Complaints Authority (their words). They'll have their own investigators and it'll be overseen by a tribunal.
Apart from you, everyone else thinks that the current PCA is independant in the same way that the applicator of whitewash is independant from the manufacturer.
Once again the troops are :buggerd: by the :Police: bosses.:killingme :killingme :killingme
BTW D50, feel free to think of a Tui moment for this one.:motu:

[spudchucka]

The guy was cuffed and docile. I've never known anyone to be physicaly injured by the use of their tounge.

But what??

Skyryder
You're 100% certain that it was just because he was giving some lip? Funny that considering there wasn't any audio and they only showed the last few seconds of the entire incident.

[spudchucka]

It's easy to be judgemental from behind the safety of a keyboard....
And its easy to form conclusive opinions from the comfort of your sofa, sitting in front of your nice 42 inch plasma, based soley on a snippet of visual information without seeing the entire context of the incident.

[spudchucka]

Perhaps.
But I see that Howard Broad and Mark Burton have just announced that legislation is going to be introduced to enable an INDEPENDANT Police Complaints Authority (their words). They'll have their own investigators and it'll be overseen by a tribunal.
Apart from you, everyone else thinks that the current PCA is independant in the same way that the applicator of whitewash is independant from the manufacturer.
Once again the troops are :buggerd: by the :Police: bosses.:killingme :killingme :killingme
BTW D50, feel free to think of a Tui moment for this one.:motu:
Thats been on the cards for ages and is in no way a response to this incident, its just brought the subject into the public forum again.

The funny thing is that when cops get investigated and the complaint leads to the cop being charged who do you think will manage the prosecution? Who will interview the cops involved? Who would have the knowledge and experience to be able to recognise when cops are closing ranks to protect a colleague?

The reality is that the serious complaints will still be investigated by senior cops and the changes to the PCA will be largely cosmetic, for the sake of public perceptions.

[Lou Girardin]

Thats been on the cards for ages and is in no way a response to this incident, its just brought the subject into the public forum again.
.

No one said that Spud, Pollies and bosses never move that fast.
You never know, this new guy might actually serve the Police well.
Even if it's just getting public respect out of the basement.

[NC]

I can't wait till they bring in the tazers:blip:

Everyones going to be running around with a video camera

[spudchucka]

No one said that Spud, Pollies and bosses never move that fast.They haven't been talking about it on the six o'clock news but its been there in the background for quite some time.

You never know, this new guy might actually serve the Police well.Broad seems to be coming from the right angle to me, I'm happy to wait and see where he takes things. He has inherited a much tidier organisation than Robbie did so perhaps we will see some good improvements.

Even if it's just getting public respect out of the basement.For every knocker there are plenty of supporters, public support will always ebb back and forth depending upon current events and the mood of the nation but I agree that there is plenty the police can do to help improves matters.

[ManDownUnder]

No one said that Spud, Pollies and bosses never move that fast.
You never know, this new guy might actually serve the Police well.
Even if it's just getting public respect out of the basement.

Except for Polly pay rise time.

"ARRPPP - POLLY WANTS MORE CRACKERS - ARRRRPP"

One of the few times you get silence in the house when it comes to debate time. And always passed under urgency - kinda like the morning after a well brewed curry.

The fallout's not too dissimilar either - no-one else wants a part of it, but those that benefit feel wonderful.

Go figure
MDU

[idb]

Those tazers will be just the thing for the Traffic Cops.
Just lean out the window as the motorcycling miscreant goes past and bring him down!

[Lou Girardin]

Sorry D50, it seems that serving cops will be out of the loop.

[GR81]

Sorry D50, it seems that serving cops will be out of the loop.
bit like this you rekon? :nya:

[GR81]

Ooo Jeremy when do i meet your fockers...:blink:
fock me beautiful! ;)

[Lou Girardin]

I hope you two will be very happy together. Will there be a general invite to the civil union?

[NC]

I hope you two will be very happy together. Will there be a general invite to the civil union?
Who's the bitch?

[Lou Girardin]

Who's the bitch?

It sounds like D50 gets a bit pre-menstrual at times.