A good argument

[Lazy7]

So, and I dont mean this in a nasty way - but us KB'ers can argue up a storm.

And I was having a conversation with a friend who does law today and she raised an interesting one that had us arguing for quite some time. Heres the thing.

Two men in the UK were charged with rape. The basis of the charge was as follows:

A husband asked two of his mates for help. He said that his wife had a very strong rape fetish and that she really wanted to roll play the act of getting raped but he was unable to do this convincingly. He had suggested to his wife that he could find two men who could pretend to break into their house late one night and perform the rollplay for her benefit.

The husband was quite convincing, his two mates agreed to the deed, and so one night, the two men forcibly gang raped the wife.

Unfortunately, and quite sickly, the wife had no idea of the plan, had no rape fetish, definitely no want to be raped by the two men and went on to press charges.

Should the two men be punished for rape?

[Sniper]

Yes, they should not have done it without the womens consent

[SwanTiger]

Should the two men be punished for rape?

Yes.

10 Characters

[NotaGoth]

I agree with Sniper.

[Lazy7]

Yes, they should not have done it without the womens consent

The entire proposition was to rollplay the encounter without the womans consent.

if the two men were led to believe to make the whole scenario as real as possible. legally, are they liable for the outcome?

[Jantar]

Yes, they should be convicted, but because they believed they had consent they should receive the lightest legal penalty. I believe that under British law a husband cannot be convicted of raping his wife. But he can be convicted of conspiracy to cause harm, and as such should receive the maximum penalty.

[Motu]

I wish I had a friend like that.....

[oldrider]

Yes, they should be convicted, but because they believed they had consent they should receive the lightest legal penalty. I believe that under British law a husband cannot be convicted of raping his wife. But he can be convicted of conspiracy to cause harm, and as such should receive the maximum penalty.
My thoughts are that Jantar is on the right track, the husband was deceitful and conspired against all parties. He should get maximum penalty.
This may not be such an unusual fetish, be carefull out there! :nono:

[onearmedbandit]

Agree with Jantar as well.

[u4ea]

My thoughts are that Jantar is on the right track, the husband was deceitful and conspired against all parties. He should get maximum penalty.
This may not be such an unusual fetish, be carefull out there! :nono:
............so is it safe to say keep those digicams on for all future escapades....................................have the proof then..............:corn:

[wendigo]

Certainly is a good argument...

[Karma]

Not the two guys fault... they were stupid but not guilty...

They entered into a contract with the husband of sorts, and as such it's the husbands fault...

Of course, you could ask what the wife was doing out of the kitchen at the time...

[jazbug5]

Come on, how stupid were they..? There's a bit of a difference between role playing and genuine fear: I really think most people would be able to tell the difference. However, if they really were set up to do it by the husband then the foul pr*ck deserves the harshest punishment available... by law or otherwise.

[smokeyging]

Put all three in the same cell

[cowboyz]

people get into all sorts of weird shit. what about the kidnapper fetish? Is it really any different?

[Colapop]

The wife should have been consulted. If she had a genuine rape fetish, then there could have been a meeting of sorts, say in two rooms separated by a door? (just thinking out loud) All parties are then aware of the participant's agreement to the action.
In this case the husband is as culpable (I think moreso) than the rapists. I can see that they would have been under the impression that she was into it (and role playing) but their actions do not excuse the crime they committed. They committed a despicable act regardless of what the husband led them to believe.

[Squeak the Rat]

While normally I would argue as hard as possible opposite to the general opinion:):

The husband should have the book thrown at him.

And while I feel a little sorry for the other guys, and while I hate to stick up for "the law", at no point did they obtain her consent, therefore it was rape. The only way that I think you could argue the case would be if there is something in law saying that as they were married the husband was entitled to enter into contracts on behalf of his wife.

I would expect a conviction with a lesser sentence...

[Edbear]

Throw the book at the three of them! There is never any excuse for rape! Or for fiddling about with another man's wife, even if he wants you to! Her rights as human being have been violated, and as one post said, it would be fairly obvious that she didn't want a part of it.

[ghost]

Yes, they should be convicted, but because they believed they had consent they should receive the lightest legal penalty. I believe that under British law a husband cannot be convicted of raping his wife. But he can be convicted of conspiracy to cause harm, and as such should receive the maximum penalty.

what he said


While normally I would argue as hard as possible opposite to the general opinion:):

The husband should have the book thrown at him.

And while I feel a little sorry for the other guys, and while I hate to stick up for "the law", at no point did they obtain her consent, therefore it was rape. The only way that I think you could argue the case would be if there is something in law saying that as they were married the husband was entitled to enter into contracts on behalf of his wife.

I would expect a conviction with a lesser sentence...

And what he said,

All three should be done

[Switch]

Throw the book at the three of them! There is never any excuse for rape! Or for fiddling about with another man's wife, even if he wants you to! Her rights as human being have been violated, and as one post said, it would be fairly obvious that she didn't want a part of it.

I agree with Edbear. And to think, the wife will be traumatised(sp) for life :nono:

[WRT]

All three should be done. What sort of a man agrees to rape anyone, let alone a friends wife? No amount of cajoling, bribing, or otherwise would convince me to rape, even if the guys wife looked like Angolina Jolie.

Hell, even if the wife asked me to rape her, I wouldnt (couldnt) do it.

Rapists are the scum of the earth. Throw the fking book at them, and the husband - he's even worse. He's done that to someone he took an oath to love and cherish. Does a mans word count for nothing these days?

[MSTRS]

I have to agree with the others. The 2 'mates' are guilty of rape. And the husband...conspiring to (whatever), fraud, accessory before, during and after the fact. Is 'Possession of fuckwitism' a crime? In which case, that too.

[wendigo]

Hell, even if the wife asked me to rape her, I wouldnt (couldnt) do it.



Might sound pedantic, but surely if she asks you to rape her it is no longer rape.

[WRT]

Yeah, your right Wendigo, but you know what I mean. If she asked me to rough her up, slap her round a bit and force myself on her while she "resisted" - I aint down for that. Go find some other chump.

[wendigo]

Yeah, your right Wendigo, but you know what I mean. If she asked me to rough her up, slap her round a bit and force myself on her while she "resisted" - I aint down for that. Go find some other chump.

Have to admit stirring another man's custard isn't high on my list of priorities.

[MSTRS]

Have to admit stirring another man's custard isn't high on my list of priorities.
....or being tapped on the shoulder.

[Smorg]

Interesting fetish, Hi my names Kate and i often have fantasys of being raped.....What the fuck is up with that.
Stupid mates, fuckwit husband they should all be made to pay. Chuck 'em in prison and tell thier cellmates that they are kiddy fidlers.
That sort of shit is definately not on. Poor woman

[Karma]

It's all about having no power over your own actions... Some people like big tits, some like being tied up and shagged senseless. Each to their own.

Usually something like this involves a code-word, a saftey barrier if you will, in case the guys take it too far.

They were stupid, that's for sure, but that's all, I don't think they were guilty as such... how many women here yell ' no no no...' when having sex... bit of a personal question I suppose, but in the heat of passion all logic goes out the window.

[Smorg]

Usually something like this involves a code-word, a saftey barrier if you will, in case the guys take it too far.
.

you sound like you know what your talking about

[Karma]

Me? No mate... innocent as the day I was born...

[Smorg]

Me? No mate... innocent as the day I was born...

your avatar proves your purity, how could i have ever said such a thing

[slimjim]

that's their story... however a lady was raped and abused,, hang the pricks

[crashe]

All 3 to be done for rape... throw away the key forever.

The fucked up husband also be done for conspiricy (sp) and what ever else the law can throw at him.
I think the other two can also be done for being part of a conspiricy as well...

NO CONSENT was given by the woman - It is RAPE.

Throw the three into a prison cell with guys who like to rape men while serving prison time... then see how they all like being raped.


I hope the woman divorced that bastard straight away.

She will have to live with being raped for the rest of her life.
I certainly hope she was offered counscelling for this trauma.

If the other two men were married then they have also ruined two women's lives and what about the children of all these people.. .thats if any of them had children.

So many lives ruined.


The husband and his two mates are total bastards and should be left to rot in prison for the rest of their lives.

[Mental Trousers]

Yes they should be prosecuted. Anyone who is stupid enough to go ahead with something like that without checking with the women involved first is looking for trouble. Oh the husband should be done for conspiracy or as an accomplis or something

[Lazy7]

Well the Jury in the case agreed with the majority of you.

The two men involved were found quilty of rape. No still means No even if it was predetermined to mean Yes.

The husband got off as he isn't criminally responsible for the actions of a third party.

[wendigo]

Interesting fetish, Hi my names Kate and i often have fantasys of being raped.....What the fuck is up with that.

Agreed. But there's a lot of people out there who don't think it's daft. Ultimately I don't know an awful lot about S&M. Would the situation described be the standard modus operandii for setting up these types of liasons? I think its bloody stupid (at best) not to check first that the 'victim' does actually want to indulge in this type of activity, especially when the consequences are spending several years in the big house, but hey thats just me. If it is the standard protocol, I do feel a modicum of sympathy for the 'mates'.

As for the husband. He has my admiration. It was a brilliantly thought out and executed plan. Don't get me wrong, I think he deserves a bullet. But at the end of the day, he's going to be the one walking away from this relatively unscathed after utterly destroying 3 other peoples lives.

[crashe]

Well the Jury in the case agreed with the majority of you.

The two men involved were found quilty of rape. No still means No even if it was predetermined to mean Yes.

The husband got off as he isn't criminally responsible for the actions of a third party.


WHAT........ but that scumbag set it all up.....
He deserves prison time... the arsehole.....

[u4ea]

All 3 to be done for rape... throw away the key forever.

The fucked up husband also be done for conspiricy (sp) and what ever else the law can throw at him.
I think the other two can also be done for being part of a conspiricy as well...

NO CONSENT was given by the woman - It is RAPE.

Throw the three into a prison cell with guys who like to rape men while serving prison time... then see how they all like being raped.


I hope the woman divorced that bastard straight away.

She will have to live with being raped for the rest of her life.
I certainly hope she was offered counscelling for this trauma.

If the other two men were married then they have also ruined two women's lives and what about the children of all these people.. .thats if any of them had children.

So many lives ruined.


The husband and his two mates are total bastards and should be left to rot in prison for the rest of their lives.
i think the marriage was over when she asked to have her fetish fullfilled in the first place.what a sick fuken mole,if her husband wasnt good enuff she should of ended the marriage instead of thinking of fucking other men in the first place

[crashe]

i think the marriage was over when she asked to have her fetish fullfilled in the first place.what a sick fuken mole,if her husband wasnt good enuff she should of ended the marriage instead of thinking of fucking other men in the first place

Please read the first post of this thread...

SHE never asked for it to happen...

her husband set it up...

[TheDark]

Not the two guys fault... they were stupid but not guilty...

They entered into a contract with the husband of sorts, and as such it's the husbands fault...

Of course, you could ask what the wife was doing out of the kitchen at the time...

I don't believe you can validly contract to do harm [unless you join the Armed Forces, of course]?

[wendigo]

The husband got off as he isn't criminally responsible for the actions of a third party.

Fuck, it's great to be right!

[ManDownUnder]

Should the two men be punished for rape?

No - they were acting under instruction.

*ding* next!

[u4ea]

Please read the first post of this thread...

SHE never asked for it to happen...

her husband set it up...
ok its her word against his and in this case then like slimjim said .........hang the pricks....................my apologies

[Smorg]

Fuck, it's great to be right!

doesnt happen often huh?

[ManDownUnder]

No - they were acting under instruction.

*ding* next!

No hang on - yes... they have the responsibility to check the facts for themselves...

[wendigo]

doesnt happen often huh?

Ah sure, have me moments...

[Karma]

I don't believe you can validly contract to do harm [unless you join the Armed Forces, of course]?

Well then that depends on your idea of doing harm... they didn't think they were, and were under the impression that she was loving it.

Husband should have got hit the worst, and other two blokes should have got charges for prostitution at worst.

[Winston001]

Interesting question. There are two elements to a crime:

1 Actus Reas - the criminal act ie. the rap in this case

2 Mens Rea - the guilty mind = intent.

Now in this case the two men thought they were dealing with a consenting adult. She'd put up a bit of a fight but really she was participating. So, their intent, their mens rea, was to have sexual intercourse with a consenting partner. No offence there because they don't have the criminal intent. Just a bit of slap and tickle.

However - the law requires them to do what the ordinary person would do in the same circumstances. They are required to assess whether the resistance given by the victim is "play" or genuine distress.

Obviously in this case the jury decided that they should have realised that she was objecting.

As for the husband - sounds like a clear case of conspiracy to commit a criminal act, or being an accessory. Strangely, the other guys lack of mens rea helps him. He couldn't conspire because that requires 2 or more people with a common criminal purpose. If the other guys thought it wasn't a crime = no conspiracy - even though a crime occurred. Same argument with accessory.

[Paul in NZ]

Weeeellllll...

The 2 mates should be prosecuted for shocking judgement(I know thats not technically a crime) and poor taste.. I mean come on, I got this from a fella inna pub? Gawd! That defense does not work for recieving stolen goods and it cannot work with this surely?

The husband, should this be proved to be as written should done fully (and locked up with the 2 ex mates he has just tricked into a crime). I suppose if you hire a hitman to murder someone it's still murder right? Well conning two thick beggers to rape someone is the same as actually doing it yourself.

All 3 should be terminated for gross stupidity and their blood relatives tracked down and exterminated.

[Pixie]

I've got a friend,she works in the Beehive,she really wants to commit suicide,but can't bring herself to do it and would prefer to be "assisted" by someone who would do it when see wasn't aware of it.
Any takers?
There's $5 in it.

[onearmedbandit]

In my earlier post I agreed with most here, rape convictions for the two men and serious consequences for the husband.

But what if it was genuine, she had asked her husband to set it all up then cried rape? No jury would doubt her claims, and she gets her revenge on her husband and his mates for a dirty weekend away in Amsterdam that she heard about.

[Paul in NZ]

I've got a friend,she works in the Beehive,she really wants to commit suicide,but can't bring herself to do it and would prefer to be "assisted" by someone who would do it when see wasn't aware of it.
Any takers?
There's $5 in it.

Only works if you say it in a pub...

[Paul in NZ]

In my earlier post I agreed with most here, rape convictions for the two men and serious consequences for the husband.

But what if it was genuine, she had asked her husband to set it all up then cried rape? No jury would doubt her claims, and she gets her revenge on her husband and his mates for a dirty weekend away in Amsterdam that she heard about.

Good point!! Hadn't quite thought of it that way, trusting soul that I am...

I suppose by taking that line of thought to it's logical conclusion, you would need to be a bit careful if your partner ever desired something a little unusually involving (say) riding crops, or hair brushes or.... snork

Sorry -

But in the highly unlikely event you ever did meet a woman that wanted the tar thrashed out of them it might just kill the moment getting your lawyer to come up with a waiver to sign....

Personally, I'm going to hire myself out as a toyboy and complain about being abused by wimmin...