1989 GPX 250 Question

[SwanTiger]

I went around to check out Markaucklands new ride last night a came away with a few questions regarding a problem (or two) which we couldn't figure out.

Stuffed Engine

Its stuffed
But try telling Mark that


Supposedly Good Engine

It runs but blows white smoke out exhuast
the fact mark caught his bike and garage on fire and used buckets of water to put it out would explain the water in the engine
One piston seems to "Knock" and "Drag" the performance of the bike
Is this a valve clearance issue which seems to be common with these GPX motors?
Or could it be timing related
The engine vibrates/shakes and the knocking sound occurs
Or is this engine fucked as well?


I know how to check the valve clearances but would need to refresh my memory on the timing side of things. But are those symptoms likely to be caused by either problem or is it likely to be something more serious, like a fucked piston or worse?

The coils seem to be alright. Enough spark being produced. New sparkplugs. Mark cleaned the Carb's (or wrecked?).

From what I've read valve clearances are likely to be the issue.

Suggestions please.

[Ixion]

That engine was in a box, and turned on all sorts of angles. If it's not had the head off, there may be oil in the cylinders which will take a lot of running to completely clear.

Valve timing won't produce smoke or knocking, though it may cause a rattle. Smoke may just be accumulated oil, as above. By "knocking" to you mean you can hear a metallic knocking?

[XTC]

Most GPX's have a pronounced knock at idle but this should diminish as the revs rise.

[SwanTiger]

Hmm if they're known for knocking I suppose it just needs a good run in and some fresh oil. Probably needs a new oil filter too.

[MSTRS]

Most GPX's have a pronounced knock at idle but this should diminish as the revs rise.
Yep. Same engine used in Eliminator, and that has a knock at idle esp when cold.

[skidMark]

thanks for the help guys.

swanny neglected to mention the smoke that wafts slowly out of the crankcase breather hose as the " good engine " is running

yes the knocking is only at idle revs seems to be ok once it revs up

and also it is an 86 bike but don't know year on replacement motor exact same motor though by the looks...

the main thing that concerns me is the smoke out the crankcase breather from the moment it fires up and you give it some revs it just slowly comes out of the breather like a smokebomb or something...this smoke is white.

and the motor is not warm at this point so i could only put it down to exhaust smoke? but could be water i'm told.

but after i shut the motor off 2-3 minutes after smoke is still wafting out of the left side exhaust.....exactly ther same color as the crankcase breather smoke by the lookis of it. but wafts out more slowly.


Cheers: ma

ps. thanks swanny for all your help in trying to get me out on the road again.

[gamgee]

haven't had this problem myself, as mine had been reconditioned with new pistons, rings, etc. done 3000km before i purchased it, but check out;
http://www.ninja250.info/index.htm
same engine as the zzr250 if that helps

[Ixion]

Hmm if they're known for knocking I suppose it just needs a good run in and some fresh oil. Probably needs a new oil filter too.

Uh, Mark, you DID change the oil in that old (repalcement) motor before running it ?

Is it blowing oil out the breather. Oil out the breather is (maybe ) bad, Can mean piston blowby. "Smoke" may be steam, which would come form water int he oil or the zorst. Hold a bit of white paper in the "smoke" See if the smoke leaves black/oily residue on the paper. But you did change the oil ? Right?

The rings could be stuck after sitting. I'd try a bit of upper cyclinder lubricant down the plug holes. And some gentle (thats "gentle", not redlining it) running.

Sounds like the knock may just be a Kockasucky thing.

[SwanTiger]

I'll pass that on to him if he hasn't already read it Ixion.

Will probably go over there again in the next day or so and see what progress can be made. At the moment he has the idea that one of the pistons in the "good" engine is naffed, so is attempting to transplant one piston from the "stuffed" engine into the supposedly "stuffed, but good" engine.

[skidMark]

yeah but out the breather it's smoking from the moment it fires up well 4-5 seconds and start giving it a little rev and smoke wafts out of the crankcase breather.....wouldn't think it would be oil or water....

bacause it would take longer to heat up before it turned to smoke or steam i would have imagined.

no ddn't give an oil chnage topped up the oil to correct level though

just seems weird that it does it straight after start up

[skidMark]

i did lean out the mixture from 2.5 to 1.5 turns on the carbys.....

still doesn't explain the crankcase mystery vapor/smoke

[SwanTiger]

just seems weird that it does it straight after start up

Well you've only run it for 15 seconds at a time.

It might be worthwhile running it on low RPM for 30 - 60 seconds or longer and wait to see what happens with the smoke.

Have you put the "Good Engine" back in the frame, Mark?

[Ixion]

AAACCKKK. Get that old "oil" outta there right off, for a start. Y'dunno WHAT that stuff is. Or how old. Drain the oil, pull the filter and change it , or at least look real close at it.

If it is smoke (and it's not electrical) then it can only come from the combustion chambers. For smoke from the firing cycle to reach the crankcase, there would need to be ring or valve blowby bad enough that you'd see oil blown out. It *could* be a sticky valve, or a tight valve. Or stuck oil control rings (though usually the compression rings stick first) . Or a water leak intot he cylinders of course, I was forgetting that it is water cooled. Try running with the suspect spark plug cap off. Does the "smoke" cease ?

Some parts of the motor will reach several hundred degrees within a minute or so of running. But I doubt it's smoke. Watch a car start up that's been standing outside overnight on a rainy morning in winter. What a big cloud of "smoke" almost immediately.

It could be smoke out the zorst , there might be a big puddle of oil in one cylinder, remember the engine may have been lying on it's side for ages at some point.

Try taking both plugs out, put a bit of white paper across over the plugs holes, and spin the engine on the starter (it will spin fast). See if there's anything blown onto the paper.

Do you have access to a compression tester?

[Ixion]

Well you've only run it for 15 seconds at a time.

It might be worthwhile running it on low RPM for 30 - 60 seconds or longer and wait to see what happens with the smoke.

Have you put the "Good Engine" back in the frame, Mark?

Oh pffft -. that engines sat around for maybe YEARS . A few seconds doesn't mean ANYTHING. It's going to take maybe an HOUR of running before it settles down.

Change the oil and filter. Start it up, and run it at about 3000 rpm for 10 minutes . If anything changes for the worse (eg a new noise, or the knocking sounds worse) turn it off immediately. Otherwise just keep it revving , blip the throttle a bit so it cycles between 2 and 3000 rpm. See if the smoke clears . Doesn't mean too much if it doesn't though, like I say it often takes 20 or 30 MILES to clear an engine out. And the zorsts will be full of shit, too.

[SwanTiger]

Awesome advice Ixion.

Marky, how about I come over and we get that engine back in the frame and sort out some new oil and a filter.

[skidMark]

it's not so much zorst smoke it's the crankcase smoke

and i don't see how an oil change will fix that...i'm suspecting rings or buggered pistion.....this could get expensive guys :(

[SwanTiger]

it's not so much zorst smoke it's the crankcase smoke

and i don't see how an oil change will fix that...i'm suspecting rings or buggered pistion.....this could get expensive guys :(

You said that it was coming from the breather and not the crankcase.

Have you read anything that has been said in this thread Mark?

[Ixion]

You are panicing prematurely

Rings could be stuck, hence the suggestion of some UCL. But smoke from the crankcase (true smoke) , the smoke has to be coming from *burning* oil. The only place anything gets burned is the combustion chamber. And no matter how bad the ring or valve blowby the exhaust port is a HONKING lot bigger, so most of any smoke is going to go down that.

And if the rings are bad enough to blow smoke, the crankcase is going to pressurise, and that will blow oil out (unless they've got something like a labyrinth filter in there, which is possible but unlikely).

If you've only run it for a few seconds, there's nowhere near enough running time to tell. Engines almost always do strange shit after being tipped up side down and such like and sitting for months and years. Get it up to operating temperature, and then you can make some judgements.

And then first place to check is a compression test. That will tell you straight off if the rings or piston or valves are bad. What size plugs is it ? Are they 14mm and is there room to get a compression tester in?

[Sketchy_Racer]

Mark the Oil Must be changed!!

You dont know if there is a litre of water mixed in that oil!!!

Change the fluids start it up... go for a ride If something is broken, its arealdy broken so you cant break it any more !!!

[skidMark]

got the other motor in now....changed the oil...

still smokes...

and as i was saying yer it comes out the breather....but the breather comes out of the crankcase.... this is why i called it a crankcase breather,

yer gunna warm it right up later tonight...

[zeocen]

I'd like to take the time to let mark know that my gpx is still running like a dream. So even though your's is a 250r .... I WIN!

hehe j/k, hope you get it sorted soon :P

[skidMark]

ran it for 10 mins or so today once she warmed up revs increased to about 3 grand...i think the idle was set a tad high....and at about that point rather than smoke we now get oil splurting out of the breather when it's sitting at 3 grand ...or revving it ....

ahhh feck

[gamgee]

hmm, have you done an oil change and checked it's got the correct amount of oil in it? btw i'm one better i've got the rr model :nya:

[FROSTY]

WTF--why diddnt you ring me??
To start with the second motor had been laying on its side for a week at least so needs the breather pipe cleaned out.It should have had new oil and plugs.put in it before fire up.Now the old motor had been cooked for sure and it seems it blew chunks. Probably into the exhaust system and the airbox. The exhausts will clear but the airbox will need you to open it up and give it a clean out.Also you need to have cleaned out the tank and all the carb internals and put in fresh gas.
You did completely bleed the cooling system ?
The motor was supplied by Henry at TAKM so I'm really confident he wouldnt sell a dudd.

[skidMark]

hell load of oil coming out that breather.... and yes it's had new oil and plugs.

carbs have all been cleaned out etc.

[Ixion]

Oil out the breather is not good, but it's early days yet. Is it firing on both cylinders?

And have you done a compression check yet - even if it's only a "thumb over the plug hole" one?

Frosty says it WAS lying on its side, so the oil may just be what ran intot he breather system. If it's firing on both and not making bad nises run it for half an hour and see what changes. Is it smoking out the zorst?

[skidMark]

and fresh gas made no diff....runs quite happily on whats in the tank...drained most of it out and chucked some fresh in there..... i have looked inside the airbox ...seems ok...i can't get the filter to click into the grooves properly though....should still light up

[skidMark]

smoking lightly out both zorsts....only running on the right cylinder

[SwanTiger]

mark my homosexual friend, are you at home? ds and i will come over

[FROSTY]

Mark DONT PANIC--ill put a big chunk of money down you havent cleaned the carbs out properly. To do it right you need compressed air and to take all the jets out.

[SwanTiger]

FINALLY!

Problem solved and Solution in order.

After a free dinner (cheers DS) and plenty of shit talking, Mark, DeathStar and myself spent the night on the bloody engine. Oil was pissing out the breather and exhuast.

We practised removing the head on the fucked engine, and yes, it is well and truly cooked. All good.

So with our new found skills carefully removed the head on the good engine and discovered a chunk of the piston missing. Explains the oil.

New piston on order and will be a piece of piss to put back togeather.

He really is a drama queen.

and his girlfriend really does exist... we still can't believe it ... shes not bad either ... isn't that a crime?

[FROSTY]

Give Henry a yell at TAKM. if thats the case then he should have a spare piston/head gasket/ring set.

[skidMark]

rang both mt eden and red baron they said 75.10 direct from kawasaki and i can have it monday....

rings look alriht and we managed to save the head gasket, well they did lol

[skidMark]

and keep your hands off my girl lol :nya:

[skidMark]

Mark DONT PANIC--ill put a big chunk of money down you havent cleaned the carbs out properly. To do it right you need compressed air and to take all the jets out.

how much was that chunk of money exactly? :blip: :blip: :blip: haha

[skidMark]

swanny ive just bought a piston now come fit it hahaha

**looks at the piston blankly , i dunno how to fit this s**t **

should be up and running soon :D

[XTC]

Why didn't you buy 2 pistons and new rings? Woulda been the smart thing to do.

[skidMark]

funds don't allow at the moment managed to get one in good condition from a wrecker so should be a good one...i mean heck it's gotta be better than one with a giant hole in it lol

[FROSTY]

um a stupid question here--whats wrong with the piston from the other engine?? Did you call TAKM???

[SwanTiger]

Yeah I'll be over later yah' homo, how the fuck did you get a piston that fast?

[Mrs Busa Pete]

just shoot the thing and put it out of its misery.:nya:

[SwanTiger]

Went around last night.

Mark had a go at putting the head togeather, fucked it up and dropped a washer down into the crank case JOY!

Head is on, need to sort out valves and kill Mark. Not in that order.

[inlinefour]

Went around last night.

Mark had a go at putting the head togeather, fucked it up and dropped a washer down into the crank case JOY!

Head is on, need to sort out valves and kill Mark. Not in that order.

How about a beating with the gpx motor, then finding a nice big cliff to throw the whole bike off? What a major hassle this has been and mark I do hope you have learnt eh. Helps reinforce what I think about kawasaki though.

[gamgee]

How about a beating with the gpx motor, then finding a nice big cliff to throw the whole bike off? What a major hassle this has been and mark I do hope you have learnt eh. Helps reinforce what I think about kawasaki though.
what, that they are a good bike so long as someone who doesn't know what they are doing, doesn't fuck with them?

[speights_bud]

So glad my GPX...R didn't need any of this treatment, infact it's fucken awesome for a mere $800! only ever fallen off the stand once and aftermarket exhausts! (Not that im rubbing it in:whistle:)

[gamgee]

wtf??? $800 man thats a bargain, i paid $2200 for mine, but then it's in mint condition, and had engine work done before i bought it

[skidMark]

what, that they are a good bike so long as someone who doesn't know what they are doing, doesn't fuck with them?

like swanny and deathstar?

they set my timing wrong so it wouldn't run, and swanny wrecked my clutch by hitting it with a hammer and screwdriver....

so yesterday i got out my trusty tools and did the timing properly she fired straight up on both cylinders... and is now running beautiful except now i gotta change the clutch ....arg

but thanks deathstar and swanny for having a crack at it

[crashe]

so the bike is now finally going........... YIPEEE and about time too.

Right so no more tantrums over the bike now... just get the clutch fixed and get it out there on the road and ride her.

Be calm Markauckland be calm............

[skidMark]

**is bouncing off the walls with eager anticipation**

[gamgee]

great now i'm having a problem with my gpx
when i start it from cold, it fires up and idles fine, i can change into gear fine, but when i let the clutch out and go to take off, the revs drop off and it almost dies, I initially thought it was the kickstand switch playing up, but it doesn't seem to be as, after it's done the almost stall thing a few times, it takes off fine as if nothing is wrong, i tried using the choke and it didn't make a difference

[crashe]

gamgee - Shall we send Swanny and deathstar down to you with their faithful hammer and screwdriver to bash it back into working order again...

It seems they are really good at bashing things with a hammer and screwdriver...:whistle:

Or we could also send Markauckland down with them as well...
Cos he is good at pulling the bike apart and not know how to put it back together again and then panic's big time... :rofl:




(pt)

[gamgee]

gamgee - Shall we send Swanny and deathstar down to you with their faithful hammer and screwdriver to bash it back into working order again...

It seems they are really good at bashing things with a hammer and screwdriver...:whistle:

Or we could also send Markauckland down with them as well...
Cos he is good at pulling the bike apart and not know how to put it back together again and then panic's big time... :rofl:




(pt)

nah i'm already good enough at those things, i'm like a deathmarkswan all rolled into one
i'm good at bashing things apart with a hammer and screwdriver then panicking cause "oh fuck i broke that bashing it apart", thats why i leave the mechanical stuff to my dad who is a mechanic... just not a motorbike mechanic, thats why i ask questions on here first

[inlinefour]

Well done Mark & Co. Good to have it sorted eh.:done:

[FROSTY]

I'm A bit concerned why one little phone call was never made.

[SwanTiger]

like swanny and deathstar?

they set my timing wrong so it wouldn't run, and swanny wrecked my clutch by hitting it with a hammer and screwdriver....


Fuck you yah' little gimp

We left your place at 2am Sunday morning and said we'd be back to do the timing as we couldn't be fucked doing anything else.

Yah clutch isn't wrecked the screw is preloaded on a spring and needed replacing or retensioning and screwing.



so yesterday i got out my trusty tools and did the timing properly she fired straight up on both cylinders... and is now running beautiful except now i gotta change the clutch ....arg

but thanks deathstar and swanny for having a crack at it

We spent 3 nights working on it because you didn't know what to do. After catching it on fire, dropping washers into the crank case, breaking a seal and spilling oil everywhere. Then running petrol mixed with oil in the engine. You finally gave up and let someone else who knew what they were doing do it.

Geez your a fucken ungrateful tosser mark.

[SwanTiger]

I'm A bit concerned why one little phone call was never made.

Because he caught the engine on fire and fucked up several other things.


gamgee - Shall we send Swanny and deathstar down to you with their faithful hammer and screwdriver to bash it back into working order again...

It seems they are really good at bashing things with a hammer and screwdriver...:whistle:


The next thing to bash is Marks head with a screw driver and hammer. His head is hollow so should be easier than fixing Marks fuckups with a GPX engine.

[deathstar]

dam right swanny ... we put it back together and because the timing was out (which we said we would fix) he says we did fuck all and the fact that it was you EVIL SWANNY who used the hammer i only use ratchets to get my smashing done

[SwanTiger]

dam right swanny ... we put it back together and because the timing was out (which we said we would fix) he says we did fuck all and the fact that it was you EVIL SWANNY who used the hammer i only use ratchets to get my smashing done

LIES!

Hammers are good... Mark couldn't even get the engine back in the frame.
5 Minutes and a bit of bashing with a hammer and she was in, no damage.

If he wanted a professional job he should of gone and paid the $600 the mechanic quoted him. We got the job done with one fucked screw.

Rant over. No point in wasting anymore time on the homo :mega:

[Sketchy_Racer]

I don't know if this is just a P/T but it seems that you have put in alot of hard hours for mark to just shove it in your face huh?

[deathstar]

I don't know if this is just a P/T but it seems that you have put in alot of hard hours for mark to just shove it in your face huh?

exactly but well things people remember for the future .... ha ha you fools me and my non existant mechanic knowledge

[R6_kid]

re: marks girlfriend... no pictures - so its still a lie atm.

Good stuff swanny and darkstar, PM me if you need help with the bashing thing. I know a good skip bin that the PitBike can go in.

[gamgee]

great now i'm having a problem with my gpx
when i start it from cold, it fires up and idles fine, i can change into gear fine, but when i let the clutch out and go to take off, the revs drop off and it almost dies, I initially thought it was the kickstand switch playing up, but it doesn't seem to be as, after it's done the almost stall thing a few times, it takes off fine as if nothing is wrong, i tried using the choke and it didn't make a difference
just so ya don't forget...

[Mental Trousers]

I've been considering moving this thread to the Jokes and Humour forum (but not seriously) cos it's comedy gold :killingme :killingme :killingme

[FROSTY]

hmm there was me thinking I'd "sold" him a dud--but no he burns the bike then blames others eeep

[inlinefour]

I thought you was OK, apparently I was wrong. Sounds like you have issues dude.

I'd be stoked if someone turned up to help me with a bike, guess that won't happen again for you eh mark.

You really need to sort your shit out boy, your old enough to know better.

:tugger:

[skidMark]

hmm there was me thinking I'd "sold" him a dud--but no he burns the bike then blames others eeep

only singed one wire turned out there was a large hole in the piston...

and in regards to what was said ealier i apoligize to swanny and deathstar as it came out like thier help was not appreciated..

it was greatly appreciated and couldn't have done it without the help of you guys ...

i did not in anyway mean it as an insult...

so once again thanks guys.

Cheers: MA

[FROSTY]

too good to just let die.
One phone call was all he needed to make :Pokey:

[skidMark]

too good to just let die.
One phone call was all he needed to make :Pokey:


I made the phonecall and wrecker said he knew nothing of it, don't give me this shit tony.

Fucking used car salesman.

How you want to settle this, you can either say a simple sorry and mean it.

Or i can think of other ways if thats how you want it to be?

Actually it's not worth it.

YOU are not worth it. I can't be arsed with your lies tony, your a cunt.

[FilthyLuka]

I made the phonecall and wrecker said he knew nothing of it, don't give me this shit tony.

Fucking used car salesman.

How you want to settle this, you can either say a simple sorry and mean it.

Or i can think of other ways if thats how you want it to be?

Actually it's not worth it.

YOU are not worth it. I can't be arsed with your lies tony, your a cunt.

Children, settle!

It was a KAWASAKI for fucks sake, who cares? :jerry: