Who Likes the Cops? [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

crash harry

15th May 2006, 16:18

Bit of a rant I'm afraid, but with good purpose I would hope... I was talking with a mate on the weekend, and we have both noticed lately that the NZ police seem to be getting more than their fair share of bad press recently. (as an aside, the conversation started as a rant about how the media seem to hype all the negative aspects of society..) Now I'm not in any way affiliated with the police, and in fact the few dealings I've had with them have usually been when I've been a naughty boy, but by and large I believe that they have been getting a raw deal.

I know the only time that most of us have any interaction with the cops is when we're making another donation, especially us motorcyclists, and I really think that the amalgamation of the Police with the Traffic department was the worst piece of PR that they ever got. If there was some way that the NZ Police could get out of that business and get it disassociated with them in the public mind, then I think it would improve the way people feel about them. You would hear a lot less rants about the "bloody cops".

Still, I also think the media have caused their share of problems. When was the last time you read a piece in the paper or saw something on the news about the police doing something good? I mean, these guys and girls are out there saving peoples lives, and dealing with the detritus of society day in day out. Imagine what society would be like without them? Surely there must be more good than bad to report? I'm sure there is the odd bad bugger amongst them, but why are they teh ones who get all the media attention? If there was more positive reporting of the work the Police do then they would be held in higher public regard, which in turn would make it easier for them to recruit more and/or better people which would mean more positive results, higher public regard, etc etc...

I don't want this to turn into another thread about what the police do wrong in this country. We've heard it all before. So come on KB, share your stories about things the police did RIGHT. I'd love to hear them, help restore people's faith in the police! Tell me someone feels the same way I do?

kiwifruit

15th May 2006, 16:22

IMHO there are a few who give the rest a bad name.
Most of them, in my experience, have been good, but its not usually the good ones ya hear of....

The Stranger

15th May 2006, 16:26

Well, I got to agree... Mostly.
The cops in general I feel are a good bunch of people.

The problems as I see it are mostly outside the control of the guys on the front line, whether it be a funding issue, or a question of priorities or even the old favourite supression of evidence.

MidnightMike

15th May 2006, 16:31

You go watch police ten seven and highway patrol then you will see the crap they have to put up with. :Police:

The_Dover

15th May 2006, 16:33

Bad boys, bad boys
Wotcha gonna do?
Wotcha gonna do when they come for you?

terbang

15th May 2006, 16:40

Some good, some bad. Luck of the draw really.

I have been really impressed with the polite and friendly attitude that the New York police display to us regular members of the public and I am sure they see some shockers on any day..

Lou Girardin

15th May 2006, 16:42

Same old shit, even I'm getting bored now.
Just ask yourself why their image has taken a hammering in the last 6 years. (not 16)
It will become self-evident.

Sue VFR

15th May 2006, 17:00

I am middle aged! My Dad was a Policeman. My BrotherInLaw is a Policeman. I think there is a culture emerging amongst the younger recruits... I have had a "boy racer mentalilty in a uniform" experience and on 2 occassions have seen officers invent traffic violation charges.

UrbanMyth

15th May 2006, 17:00

they deserve getter.I mean some cops are actually pretty cool they are just doing there job..

Sue VFR

15th May 2006, 17:10

There are heaps of good cops, they usually dont do traffic work though. And the sensible ones need to assert pressure on their follow workers who are giving them a bad name. If someone at your work was riping off your clients would you tolerate it?

scumdog

15th May 2006, 17:18

Same old shit, even I'm getting bored now.
Just ask yourself why their image has taken a hammering in the last 6 years. (not 16)
It will become self-evident.

More 'open-ness'?
Better media equipment to 'record' events?
More political correctness?

Whatever it is they're still the same type of person as they were 20+ years ago, no worse, no better..

yungatart

15th May 2006, 17:21

It is my understanding that the cops have to do some HP work - I'm sure one of the resident "boys-in-blue" will correct me if I am wrong. It is also my understanding that most of them hate it and would rather be out there catching the baddies. I have had some dealings with police, most, all bar one actually, were good guys, doing a difficult job and doing it very well.
One of my kids, aged 6 at the time, went for a loooong walk one day on his own, (about 6 miles). The cops were brilliant, very supportive and helpful, and caring and concerned throughout the whole thing.
Very recently a cop rescued someone in difficulty in heavy surf here in the bay.
As others have said, they are mostly good, but as in any profession, job, career etc, there will always be the odd one who isn't squeaky clean.

Lou Girardin

15th May 2006, 17:22

Whatever it is they're still the same type of person as they were 20+ years ago, no worse, no better..

There was a letter in the SST, it sounded like an ex-cop, wondering why the fitness test has become more difficult, while the IQ testing is easier.
He concluded that the bosses want fit cops who don't question policy.

But realistically, I think half the problem is the loss of so many supervisors in recent years.

Squeak the Rat

15th May 2006, 17:22

One thing that annoys me about cop threads is that there is no distinction between the organisation, or the employees either on the individual level or as a collective.

Which are we talking about?

Motu

15th May 2006, 17:25

Squeak the Rat

15th May 2006, 17:28

I think the IRD are a bunch of morons. The country wouldn't function without them, I have no doubts there are a lot of great individuals working there, but SOME of their policies, procedures and customer services is a joke.

I guess that's a roundabout way of saying yes, the cops on the whole do a good job, and are good people. That doesn't stop human nature when it comes to relating to negative publicity though. And it doesn't mean that just because an organisation is good overall that negative issues should be ignored.

The Pastor

15th May 2006, 17:34

Cops have one of the worst jobs. But the reason I dont like them is they constantly lie to everyone. An example, I got pulled up because of a (and I quote) "noise complaint". Cutting the interesting bit out of the story, we ended up in court (I fought the law and.... I won..), turns out there was no noise complaint at all, but a tip off. There was other minor details the coppa lied about (under oath as well!) as it turned out I didnt have to expose there lies in court - the police main and only "witness" did a good job of discrediting himself and the police as well. I dont like liars.

The Pastor

15th May 2006, 17:36

I think the IRD are a bunch of morons.

........IRD?

inlinefour

15th May 2006, 17:36

Skyryder

15th May 2006, 17:39

I don't have generaal opion about them one way or the other. I just see them as indaviduals. Some a are smart shits while others are all right and do a good job.

Skyryder

Lazy7

15th May 2006, 17:58

never had any reason to dislike them.

i blame the media for most of the bad reputation they get given

madboy

15th May 2006, 17:58

I've seen first hand cops perjure themselves, use excessive force, "invent" charges and wilfully damage private property. Which is funny, cos I think if I looked in the mirror and carefully analysed some things I've been involved in over the years I think I'd be struggling to hold my hand on my heart and say I was a better person. Sure, there's some cock smokers in the force, but there's some cock smokers I work with here too. Some people even think I'm one of them.

Cops are human beings first, police officers second. Some forget, most don't. It's a shame sometimes the public could remember that too.

No, don't worry, I'm not getting soft. I still ain't hanging round to talk to no 5-0, but I draw the distinction between traffic and general duties. GD has my respect, if anything my envy. If I could afford the paycut and undo a few things I've done in my past I might be tempted to join!

Switch

15th May 2006, 19:13

I blame the media :nono:

T.W.R

15th May 2006, 19:16

Well my Grandfather was a cop for over 30yrs and my Oldman was MOT for 10yrs (when it was run by the ChCh City council). Also have 2mates in the police at the moment, one's a plod & the other is in Forensics.

Generally front line police get a raw deal with things these day mainly because of the ever present PC bregade and the lack of respect the uniform brings in this day & age.

My Grandfather was a well respected country cop for most of his life before moving into the city where he became a suburban cop and even today in certain circles he's still remembered & its usually the story of 'christ old ******* kicked my ass a few times & sent me on my way' .
Nowdays if a cop gave you a kick up the arse he'd be done for assult, but at least my grandfather had the respect of the people, and thats whats lacking mainly these days.

Same with my Oldman, he was well known & respected, but he got farked off with the internal culture & brown nosing that went on. He even got raked over the coals for booking a Judge for DIC, and another occasion for chasing a bloke on foot who was DIC & left the scene of a accident.the Oldman chased the guy pinned him down until the Police arrived then got hammered in court for unnecessary use of force. Because the senior levels of system where so corrupt he left disillusioned completely with the system.

spudchucka

15th May 2006, 21:59

But realistically, I think half the problem is the loss of so many supervisors in recent years.
Or the over representation of ex traffic cops in supervisory roles these days.

Grahameeboy

15th May 2006, 22:04

Same old shit, even I'm getting bored now.
Just ask yourself why their image has taken a hammering in the last 6 years. (not 16)
It will become self-evident.

Sssssnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

paturoa

15th May 2006, 22:11

As a newbie to KB and reading some of the attitudes, opinions about cops and absolute crap about runners etc etc, the reason cops give you shit, IMHO, has in the majority of cases got more to do with how you treat them in the first instance, than how they treat you.

Sure there must be some a'hole coppers out there (law of averages), but in the last 2 years (short term memory - beer issue) i've been pulled over 3 times and not had a ticket. Works for me, its called respect.

Grahameeboy

15th May 2006, 22:20

Quartida

15th May 2006, 23:18

I reckon we need more bad Cops...ones who aren't too scared to give some smart arse teenager a clip over the ears,take him home to his parents and tell them what's going on.....um,we need more parents who'll back up the Cop and not take the poor bastard to court for booting their angel up the bum.

I totally agree. As long as the "bad cops" are bad-assing stuff that needs to be bad-assed. Like smart arse teenagers. We don't just want police with "attitude": it has to be channelled into the right situations.

Overall I think the police do a bloody good job in what must be very trying circumstances. They're pretty much in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of job, and I admire them for for doing what they do.

Motu

15th May 2006, 23:56

Back in the '60's a couple of things happened to me that made an impression....

As a pre teen I was picked up with a couple of others and taken to ''The Cop Shop''.We were put in seperate rooms alone for 3 days with only bread and water....well,maybe 30 mins and a biscuit.After an interogation we were released and offered a lift home,which we declined.Oh boy,pretty close to the electric chair.....

A couple of years later I saw my elder brother,then in his early teens,brought home by the Police,his bike in the boot.The silence was deafening!!.I never heard a word about it in the neighbourhood,and our mother never raised her voice or gave a lecture - but you could cut the air with a knife...serious,serious stuff.The situation was ignored....but never forgotten....

N4CR

16th May 2006, 00:14

Any true westie metaller drinks flame beer. BEst alc/$ ratio. Fuck yeah :headbang: Tastes good if you are into that sorta stuff... I feel my kvltness enriched. Infact I'll go so far to call flame my beer of choice. It's more rugged than ranfurly 20 packs. Or VB.

Mmmmm student beer.

Ixion

16th May 2006, 00:17

I never suffered the ultimate ignominy myself, of being taken home on the pillion seat of the Snakemocycle. But a couple of mates did, at different times.

"Right. Ride the bike to Snake Central. I'll be following behind.Park it up." Then home as a pillion. So the snake could explain to Mum and Dad just what you did. And what had to be done before the precious bike could be reclaimed.

Oh the shame. The embarassment.The irreparable loss of face and cool. The taunts and jeers of ones peers. Not to mention what Dad would do. No, best NOT to mention it. It didn't bear thinking of

No fine, no demerit points, no disqualification, no penalty a court could hand out, could be as bad as having the whole street turn out to watch you being brought home by the traffic cop. And knowing that Mum would have to explain it all to the neighbourhood tomorrow. And knowing how she'd look at you. And how you'd want the floor boards to open up so you could slide between them. Not hard, when you're only three inches tall.

Oh they were terrible, terrible men those snakes.

And then the long bikeless days, before the allotted punishment was worked through, so that the precious bike could be claimed back.

All totally alien to the law I'm sure. But , oh, so VERY effective.

EDIT: The only thing more dorkish and shameful would have been to crash. But I never knew any of my contemporaries do that.

jonbuoy

16th May 2006, 08:21

The only time you have to worry is when your breaking the law. Speeding IS breaking the law, I speed and I know one day I might have to start walking to work and hope my boss is sympathetic. If you want to stay on the good side of them - Don't speed and don't break the law. Otherwise you just gotta take it like a man.

Lou Girardin

16th May 2006, 08:21

Bravo Sir.mind you see my 'ticket' thread and my respect still got me a ticket which was fine so guess you had luck too..I still have respect for Police

I wondered what it'd take to wake you up. Thoughts of the boys in uniform huh?
You really have to get past the village people thing. The only cop here who wears chaps commando style is scumdog.

Macktheknife

16th May 2006, 13:54

Only time I've got grief from Cops was when I've deserved it,and it's been a hell of a long time since I've deserved a hard time from a Cop.I reckon we need more bad Cops...ones who aren't too scared to give some smart arse teenager a clip over the ears,take him home to his parents and tell them what's going on.....um,we need more parents who'll back up the Cop and not take the poor bastard to court for booting their angel up the bum.
I agree, but with a small disclaimer, not bad cops but good cops who know the value of the lessons.
I had several 'things' with the cops when I was a young fella and took my stripes as needed. But I knew that I had earned them, and when given a lesson I actually got the point.
Now I have seen lots of young guys with "I know my rights..." unfortunately they dont often know their responsibilities.
I have no hard feelings towards the cops in general and I respect and appreciate the difficult job they do, I still have a couple of mates who are in the job.
It is no more reasonable to collectively lump all cops as bad, than to collectively lump all bikers as lawless hoons/bastards.

James Deuce

16th May 2006, 13:59

It's funny how one man can build a thousand bridges in Africa, enabling better services to poverty stricken regions, but if he sucks one dick, the whole world knows him as a cocksucker, not a bridgebuilder.

crash harry

16th May 2006, 14:29

Only time I've got grief from Cops was when I've deserved it,and it's been a hell of a long time since I've deserved a hard time from a Cop.I reckon we need more bad Cops...ones who aren't too scared to give some smart arse teenager a clip over the ears,take him home to his parents and tell them what's going on.....um,we need more parents who'll back up the Cop and not take the poor bastard to court for booting their angel up the bum.

Maybe not Bad cops, I'd call them Hard cops.
But in their position these days I'd be too afraid that someone was going to sue or video it, selectively edit it, and show another "Police Brutality" article on the news.

And yes, good point about the parents. Lack of respect for the police is just a part of the general lack of respect for ANYTHING that some of these little shits have...

Listen to me, I'm starting to sound old... Bugger.:doh:

cowpoos

16th May 2006, 14:38

Bad boys, bad boys
Wotcha gonna do?
Wotcha gonna do when they come for you?
shut ya fuckin singing up and pick that soap up...biaaaatch!

crash harry

16th May 2006, 14:44

One thing that annoys me about cop threads is that there is no distinction between the organisation, or the employees either on the individual level or as a collective.

Which are we talking about?

I was talking about the indiviuals. We all know there are problems with the organisation, though the extent of those problems depends on your point of view a bit... I dunno, I guess I was just getting a bit sick of hearing all the cop bashing on this forum, and on TV, and in the newspaper, and just people in general.

Beemer

16th May 2006, 14:46

Still, I also think the media have caused their share of problems. When was the last time you read a piece in the paper or saw something on the news about the police doing something good? I mean, these guys and girls are out there saving peoples lives, and dealing with the detritus of society day in day out. Imagine what society would be like without them? Surely there must be more good than bad to report? I'm sure there is the odd bad bugger amongst them, but why are they the ones who get all the media attention? If there was more positive reporting of the work the Police do then they would be held in higher public regard, which in turn would make it easier for them to recruit more and/or better people which would mean more positive results, higher public regard, etc etc...

It's the old problem that no one is interested in good news and it doesn't sell newspapers! You may get warm fuzzies when you read a story about good, kind people doing nice stuff for others, but the reality is, no one would buy a paper if it was full of good news - sad but true. The community weekly papers do a good job of covering the good news but the dailies really don't have the time or the interest to cover anything other than breaking news - which is mostly bad.

It's not just the police who suffer from bad press, it's just about everyone nowadays - male school teachers, priests, youth - and it's probably due to a lack of respect more than anything. Kids today are often brought up with a distinct lack of manners which develops into a disregard for others.

There is a quote that sums it up - if a dog bites a man, it's not news - but if a man bites a dog, that's news! Most who do good work day in, day out, know that they are liked and respected by those who matter and a glowing report in the paper won't change the way they do their job.

snuffles

16th May 2006, 14:49

I still maintain that a good percentage need an atitude adjustment, I have 2 members of my family who were Police and they managed to still be polite to normal law abiding people, I understand the job is crap, but so is mine, but I am still expected to treat people with the politeness and dignity they deserve.

So why cant the Police?

Lou Girardin

16th May 2006, 15:02

Actually, exaggerrated politeness is the best way to wind up miscreants.

scumdog

16th May 2006, 16:20

Actually, exaggerrated politeness is the best way to wind up miscreants.

And funny as a play when it all goes over their heads....:laugh:

Lou Girardin

16th May 2006, 17:27

It seems we're going to have another thousand to love/hate.
Any bets on where most of them will be posted?
Traffic?

Felicks

16th May 2006, 22:40

I've read this thread with a :) on my face thinking about all the different views being proffered. And to be perfectly honest, all of them to some extent are true - I should know...

I could ramble on (and may do depending on how long this thread goes on for), but here's my overview:

Every organisation has its rat bags and dare I say it some are criminally minded, some don't give a damn and others are just gorillas in the corner waiting to piss someone off! At the end of the day they all have the ability to help bring an organisation to its knees just as easily as poor management. The reality is Police are no different.

Having said that, because of their role, I think Police are expected to be of at least average calibre when it comes to society, afterall they do sign an oath when becoming sworn. Therefore I fully support getting rid of the bad apples or charging them if appropriate.

Having said that, the "job" includes dealing with model citizens right down to outright animals that the majority of the public will never meet, in circumstances as varied as one can imagine. Over time those "animals" do have a derogitory effect on cops - just look at the numbers who constantly leave. And just like everyone else and despite the uniform (which is just that and nothing more), they also have good days and bad days.

KB tends to revolve around cops doing the traffic thing so I'll leave all the other stuff out at the moment (and there is heaps - believe me). Traffic is generally a thankless task but one that has to be done at some level. God help us if there were none...!! Some cops enjoy it but most do not. After the merger in 1992, there was no choice. As someone said earlier - most are there to catch real crooks and as most people will agree, most traffic stuff does not come into that catagory.

So, there is the odd one or two around who take delight at issuing a ticket and in doing so, rubs joe public up the wrong way. But the majority of others do not. Hence why warnings are still often given out - probably far more than the bosses would like I dare say.

If you have a bad experience, I would think you are in the minority, and like all business - it takes a lot of good service to make up for one incident of bad service.

(So much for my short overview....)

Da Bird

17th May 2006, 01:32

It seems we're going to have another thousand to love/hate.
Any bets on where most of them will be posted?
Traffic?

Of the extra 1000 police to be recruited, 406 are to be recruited in the first year. Of these, 50 will be allocated to road policing (and probably 80% of those 50 to Auckland at a guess).

BC.

Korea

17th May 2006, 03:06

Now I have seen lots of young guys with "I know my rights..." unfortunately they dont often know their responsibilities.
Sorry I'm late.
Nicely put. Bling awarded...
Just because you have the right to be little prick doesn't mean you should be one - or that there is something desirable in being a prick.

Korea

17th May 2006, 03:19

It's the old problem that no one is interested in good news and it doesn't sell newspapers! You may get warm fuzzies when you read a story about good, kind people doing nice stuff for others, but the reality is, no one would buy a paper if it was full of good news.
Yeah, it's sad that it has come to this. Some people who actually make a difference should be held in higher regard - but nothing is sacred to the press.
And honestly, it gets a bit boring. The media's been stooping to those depths for a while and it's pretty pathetic . What did I see the other day on stuff.com? Something to the tune of "Man who did a non-PC something was AN EX-COP!!!"
Whatever...

Lou Girardin

17th May 2006, 08:07

Of the extra 1000 police to be recruited, 406 are to be recruited in the first year. Of these, 50 will be allocated to road policing (and probably 80% of those 50 to Auckland at a guess).

BC.

I heard that. It seems times have changed, not long ago the policy was for recruits to spend 2 years on GD before going to specialised roles. It seems that is easily changed where revenue is at stake, but changing entry fitness requirements is a bit 'too hard'.
Annette Kings comments last night also bode ill for road users. She waffled on about the importance of road policing in saving lives, shorthand for "we're not spending $500,000,000 on new cops without squeezing it back out of mug drivers".

scumdog

17th May 2006, 08:15

Attract recruits of good standard???:Police:

Lower the entry standard? - That way no!:no:

Raise the salary? - That way yes!:yeah:

Lou Girardin

17th May 2006, 08:23

Attract recruits of good standard???:Police:

Lower the entry standard? - That way no!:no:

Raise the salary? - That way yes!:yeah:

C'mon Scummy, what the hell does it matter if someone takes 30 secs longer to run 2.4 km?
Lower the fitness standard and raise the intelligence requirements. If you can out think 'em, you don't have to out run 'em.

scumdog

17th May 2006, 08:31

C'mon Scummy, what the hell does it matter if someone takes 30 secs longer to run 2.4 km?
Lower the fitness standard and raise the intelligence requirements. If you can out think 'em, you don't have to out run 'em.

I never specified what 'standard' but I was meaning ALL stanards but particularly the I.Q. etc more than total fitness (although that's important too).

Don't want the South American recruit standard - you know, the one that is "If you can fog a mirror, don't cough blood and can't fit a 6 inch hoop over your head then you're just what we need"

Finn

17th May 2006, 08:37

Good old labour strikes again. It's sugar coated so the peasants will think this is good thing - that crime will reduce. It won't, it will continue to rise as we throw more resourse at the bottom of the cliff. $500,000,000 for 1000 cops just proves gross incompetence. I'm glad I don't pay much tax at all. I refuse to contribute to a system that I do not derive any benefit from but feel sorry for all the hard workers that do. However, those who voted for bitch face deserve every missfortune they get.

Do you realise that by around lunch time today, you have been working all week for absolutely nothing? That's right, nothing. Look around you and see what you get for this money. You should be angry... very angry.

Next election, vote for NZ, freedom, choice, integrity & prosperity. Vote for Finn. More on this later.

ManDownUnder

17th May 2006, 09:45

Yup - I agree with scumdog.

Raise the standards of entry, and raise the pay even more. I have no problems in changing the destination of my money.

If I can spend less on keeping the criminals in prison, and more on Police keeping the streets safe by nabbing the little bastards while they're only taggers... that has GOT to be a good thing.

It's going to cost more in the short term... in the short term we need to raise the bar. Raise the level of training and equipment for the cops. Get them what they need to do the job.

More money for the courts so anyone that is caught for anything gets processed quicksmart

Same money needed for the prisons.

Short and medium term we'll get a higher juvenile crime rate (shock gasp) because the arrest rate for the little sods will go up.

Longer term we'll have less people in prison because they were caught at a more tender age, and the punishments were a little less PC... we'll have better equipped Police and there'll be cultural change towards, and within the Police because it's not us and them anymore.

It pisses me off how the cops get slated for doing a job that needs to be done, and I wouldn't want to do (yeah yeah - I'm a wuss... and none too fit either).

In stead of bitching and moaning about "how many lives they ruin by busting speedsters, lane splitters blah blah blah"... any chance of stopping to think how many lives they may have saved, or affected positively or...???

It's always interesting to see who's also bitching and moaning about "where's a cop when you need one" after they've been burgled or T-boned".

Rant over - I think I made my point and the steam is running out.
MDU

ManDownUnder

17th May 2006, 09:49

C'mon Scummy, what the hell does it matter if someone takes 30 secs longer to run 2.4 km?

Lower the fitness standard and raise the intelligence requirements. If you can out think 'em, you don't have to out run 'em.

If I can step in here... wouldn't the ideal situation be that you can out think them AND outrun them?

There's also the wee matter of not all crims actually being as dumb as people think. Some are pretty fucken clever.

Lou Girardin

17th May 2006, 09:58

If I can step in here... wouldn't the ideal situation be that you can out think them AND outrun them?

There's also the wee matter of not all crims actually being as dumb as people think. Some are pretty fucken clever.

So why do we need a fitness standard greater than the UK, US or Aust.
Do you think that otherwise fine would-be cops have been rejected because of this?

u4ea

17th May 2006, 10:04

ManDownUnder

17th May 2006, 10:04

So why do we need a fitness standard greater than the UK, US or Aust.

Possibly because the cops in those areas are better equipped? Don't know. Are you saying a lower level of fitness for recruits would be a good thing?

Do you think that otherwise fine would-be cops have been rejected because of this?

Yes,

But don't you think if cops were paid 50% more than they currently are there'd be more incentive to join the Police, it would attract people possessing the right attributes, and those people would also be more prepared for the entry test?

And yes - if the cops got a 50% pay rise, I'd be happy to fund that. Get more cops, equip them more, train them more, pay them more and make them more accountable.

Lou Girardin

17th May 2006, 11:41

Possibly because the cops in those areas are better equipped? Don't know. Are you saying a lower level of fitness for recruits would be a good thing?

Yes,

But don't you think if cops were paid 50% more than they currently are there'd be more incentive to join the Police, it would attract people possessing the right attributes, and those people would also be more prepared for the entry test?

And yes - if the cops got a 50% pay rise, I'd be happy to fund that. Get more cops, equip them more, train them more, pay them more and make them more accountable.

Are you saying our cops need to run fast because we can't afford ballistic vests?

How about paying the ones that last 3 - 5 years more? Then we'll know if they're worth it. Even offer a sweetheart super scheme so they can retire in comfort after 20 years or so?
What is needed is experienced cops, not green-arsed recruits filling the vacancies each year.
Although I suspect that a well indoctrinated recruit may write more tickets though.

scumdog

17th May 2006, 11:48

scumdog

17th May 2006, 11:58

scumdog i have a dillema........when i was coming bak to my local country town after looking for a new helmet,i got a speeding tiket in my car as i was wanting to get home to have my new bike dropped off,as you are a motorcyclist too then like i told the bobby go catch some rapists......................................i am a little gutted ,rekon cops would stak higher in my books if they had the old traffic cops and let police do the real stuff.then you wouldnt all be tarred with the same brush.............and yes i know i shoulnd have been speeding .......................................

My answer to 'go catch rapists' types is simply to say I would gladly but you speeding (or whatever) motorists are keeping from doing that.(and rapists speed too!:laugh: )
Do you feel you should have just been warned? If so why you and not everybody?

To follow on, in a nutshell, you don't like the uniform?

i.e. If traffic guys had black uniforms you would hate them but not the general duties guys who don't do traffic and wear blue? - even if they work at the same base, drive the same cars and got paid the same???.

Bad luck about your ticket, however if I eventually get one I'll just shrug my shoulders and get on with my life, life is too short to fester over crap like a ticket.

spudchucka

17th May 2006, 12:07

So why do we need a fitness standard greater than the UK, US or Aust.
Do you think that otherwise fine would-be cops have been rejected because of this?
I don't have a problem with them dropping the fitness standard a little but I wouldn't want to see us take the approach of some US jurisdictions where the entry standard is 2.4 Kms in around 14 minutes. You could power walk it in that time.

The entry level fitness requirement has more to do with the recruit being able to handle the physical demands of the recruit course than it does being physically able to chase and run down offenders.

And yes, I know of a number of people that would have made fine cops if they were able to meet the fitness requirements. The current fitness level is attainable by almost anyone though, it just takes commitment and drive to get there if you haven't been into fitness prior to applying.

scumdog

17th May 2006, 12:15

As Spudchucka said: you can always build on your fitness and practice the test - raising an I.Q. is a little harder to do....and they don't hand out practice written tests.

spudchucka

17th May 2006, 12:18

Are you saying our cops need to run fast because we can't afford ballistic vests?

How about paying the ones that last 3 - 5 years more? Then we'll know if they're worth it. Even offer a sweetheart super scheme so they can retire in comfort after 20 years or so?
What is needed is experienced cops, not green-arsed recruits filling the vacancies each year.
Although I suspect that a well indoctrinated recruit may write more tickets though.
We do have ballistic vests, the f%&kers weigh about 15 kg and I aint planning on running anywhere when I'm wearing one.

Pay more after 3 - 5 years? Got to agree with you there, if there is some incentive down the track it will motivate cops to stay and advance their careers. Currently it takes about 20 years to reach the top of the pay band for constables. They recognise long service after 14 years, give you a medal and call you a "Senior Constable" but they still don't pay you at the top rate, which is wrong in my opinion.

Super scheme? We have a pretty good one now but if it was made even more attractive then I'm sure that would encourage peoplpe to join and serving cops to stay in the job.

The hierachy has acknowledged that they have a recruitment problem but are still in denial that there is a retention problem. 40 something $K sounds like an attractive propostion to someone aged 17 - 22 after a 19 week training course but to someone aged 30+ it would often mean a pay reduction in order to join the police.

madboy

17th May 2006, 12:34

spudchucka

17th May 2006, 13:05

If one of the cops could let me know (either here or by PM) just what a cop does actually earn, and how that changes over say the first 5 years. Is it a straight salary, so $40k-mumblemumble and that's it? Or are there allowances that turn it into $50k-mumblemumble? I understand the time in lieu idea means lots of cops end up with lots of leave that they seldom have time to take, but sometimes get forced into taking. Am I correct in that?

And what's a sergeant worth in terms of $$ and experience/quals to get there?
A recruit earns around $27,000 while training. On graduation they go up to about $43,000, (as I recall, the exact figure might be a bit higher now but its in that area). The top of the pay scale for constables is around $70,000 but the way the graduated steps are it takes about 20 years to get there. You get an annual performance pay increment as long as you keep your training certification current and don't get any adverse reports.

On top of the base salary they pay about another 7% into your superannuation.

There are allowances in some instances, higher duties allowance for constables in acting Sgts roles, out of town allowances for cops that have to work away from their home base, meal allowance if you work a shit load of overtime, plain clothes allowance for CIB, on call allowance for 1, 2 & 3 man stations, AOS & CIB and a field training officer's allowance which is paid to experienced cops who are mentoring newbies. For the joe bloggs cop there aren't any allowances to claim other than the meal allowance claim for overtime.

Overtime isn't paid but accumulates as time off in lieu, (TOIL). We do get a lot of leave and the bosses get on your case if you accumulate more than around 30 days. I'm currently on leave as my boss was a little peaved that I had over 50 days, I've taken a couple of weeks off but I'm still accumulating more leave while I'm on leave.

Senior cops that were being paid the field training officers allowance as a constable have found that when they take promotion to Sergeant they are only a few hundred bucks a year better off than they were as a constable. The salary for a Sgt isn't that great, I don't have the figures in front of me but I can assure you that there isn't a lot of financial incentive there. However the police have now decided that when a constable is promoted to Sgt they will take their FTO allowance with them for a period of time.

To qualify as a Sgt a cop needs to firstly attain permanent appointment, (on completion of their probationary period), complete a Certificate in Contemporary Policing from Victoria University, (two 100 level and two 200 level papers), complete a 100 level management paper from Vic or Massey uni and pass three internal police exams, (practical duties, evidence & statutes). Sgt's jobs are advertised internally in our staff news letter, to get one you have to apply for the job as you would for any job, get short listed, interviewed by a panel and beat whoever else might apply for the job.

Edbear

17th May 2006, 13:06

Sorry I'm late.
Nicely put. Bling awarded...
Just because you have the right to be little prick doesn't mean you should be one - or that there is something desirable in being a prick.

Nicely put! Bling awarded! (To both.)

ManDownUnder

17th May 2006, 13:09

Are you saying our cops need to run fast because we can't afford ballistic vests?

LOL - No but it's an angle I'll agree with you on. I was thinking in term of sheer numbers of cops available for a serious incident, including the more expensive resources like Eagle etc.

How about paying the ones that last 3 - 5 years more? Then we'll know if they're worth it. Even offer a sweetheart super scheme so they can retire in comfort after 20 years or so?

What is needed is experienced cops, not green-arsed recruits filling the vacancies each year.

Although I suspect that a well indoctrinated recruit may write more tickets though.

Yup - pay 'em more to get them in ther door... and pay them more again for longevity (I would expect promotions etc to take care of that issue in part anyway?)

scumdog

17th May 2006, 13:15

Read post#66 and see why I'll just stay in the location and at the rank I am at present.:ride:

Motu

17th May 2006, 13:25

Do you have to hand in the tips,or can you keep them?

scumdog

17th May 2006, 13:28

Do you have to hand in the tips,or can you keep them?

How did you know I was cutting the tips off??

Squeak the Rat

17th May 2006, 13:47

So is retention an issue then?

If so, increasing pay won't fix that unless it is substantially under "market rate". Unfortunately market rate is hard to apply here.

It looks like one issue is the incentive to progress through the ranks, but on the other hand I'd imagine we'd only want people motivated by non-monetary reasons to get the top jobs (like power!...no, wait....).

I guess what I'm saying is, give pissed-off people more money and they will stay a bit longer. They will still be pissed off and will leave anyway if that's what they were thinking of doing.

spudchucka

17th May 2006, 14:37

Your are right, money isn't and shouldn't be the only incentive to stay in the job. It is an important issue though and I guarantee you that there are tons of people that simply would not do half the stuff we do for the money we are paid. Its an issue that needs to be address.

Having said that though we don't want people joining just because the money is good, its a job that you have to want to do. Most that join the job want to do it, many that leave the job do so because they feel they can no longer do the job that they joined to do, (due to red tape, ring fencing of funds, over represenation of road policing, etc etc) and become frustrated and resentful towards the organisation.

Indoo

17th May 2006, 17:21

Having said that though we don't want people joining just because the money is good, its a job that you have to want to do. Most that join the job want to do it, many that leave the job do so because they feel they can no longer do the job that they joined to do, (due to red tape, ring fencing of funds, over represenation of road policing, etc etc) and become frustrated and resentful towards the organisation.

Yep exactly. And just as you don't want people joining for the money you don't want people not joining because the money is bad. It is bad which is why its a bit ironic when people moan about the caliber of cops, you pay them 43k a year thats the same as what road workers get, what do you expect.

The love of the job aspect and joining for the joy of public service becomes slightly jaded when the media constantly tells the public what a terrible job you are doing. Thats despite the fact that you locked up 15 criminals that week, did 10 hours unpaid overtime and came in on your day off to complete a file.

Then theres not only the stress of being in danger when you work because of the under staffing which is a result of the above. But that you can be prosecuted for murder when using force to defend yourself, as Constable A found out. Apparently Police should turn their backs and run when confronted by someone trying to kill them with a baseball bat and golf club.

Really what Labour is doing is nothing more than a PR campaign, they can't recruit enuff cops as is without lowering the standards any further. But at the same time they don't actually want more cops because it will mean more criminals in jail, which is apparently a bad thing.

There is also far to much bureaucracy and following business type aims, like the Police can be privatised into a corporation or something. Entering into agreements with the LTSA to provide a contracted number of hours and 'contacts' aka tickets in return for funding and pleasing the political masters is a prime example.

The primary aim of policing is to fight crime, let cops do just that not be told that they have to sit on xxx road and give out xxx amount of tickets to everyone that exceeds the speed limit. That completely takes away the discretion that defines a good cop.

Police know when speed is excessive and dangerous, they are after all on the road watching the car/bike in question, the middle manager sitting behind his LTSA desk isn't.

Pay good cops more and retain good cops in the organisation, and like spudchucka said give them back discretion and the ability to do there jobs without red tape and business like 'targets'. Labours solution will address nothing and change nothing.

This post is also far too long.

MattRSK

17th May 2006, 19:02

I like cops except the ones who think they are GOD

madboy

17th May 2006, 20:09

Finn

17th May 2006, 22:34

scumdog

17th May 2006, 22:38

Finn

17th May 2006, 22:41

Ya couldn't afford my rate buddy!!!!

I was talking about paying cash to get off a ticket. What were you referring to?

scumdog

17th May 2006, 22:44

I was talking about paying cash to get off a ticket. What were you referring to?

Just that.

What were YOU thinking I was thinking????

Finn

17th May 2006, 22:49

Just that.

What were YOU thinking I was thinking????

I was thinking that you were thinking that I was thinking of "getting off" a ticket meant something else.

Madness

17th May 2006, 22:52

Some cops are okay (see below)
People should listen to the police band some friday/saturday night and hear the shit they have to deal with. Respect for that.

Da Bird

18th May 2006, 03:05

Maybe a little bit of corruption is the answer? I'd rather hand over the cash to a cop than the government. It's a win / win. No demerit points and the cop gets some extra cash. It's not like the government gives a shit about them.

I quite often get asked if they can "pay now", usually after I have written the ticket though so more a case of not wanting parents/wife/husband to find out I guess... is very tempting sometimes but not worth the risk.

If we could get some sort of commission system going, that would be great... although not good for the average punter about to get a ticket for $1000 just coz a cop wants his $100.00 commission!

Quasievil

18th May 2006, 06:58

Some cops are okay (see below)
People should listen to the police band some friday/saturday night and hear the shit they have to deal with. Respect for that.

Gee Maxim are you some kind of Finn stalker, you always post right next to Finn? whats with that.
Finn I think you got a worshipper, dunno why. How'd ya get on with those Ducati Pipes mate, send me a pm, let close the deal!

buellbabe

18th May 2006, 07:24

As said in another thread...
It can be a shit job sometimes and someones gotta do it. There will always be the odd a-hole, they exist in every walk of life and if that person isn't a cop they would be doing something else... BUT they would still be an a-hole!
I have always had reasonably good experiences with cops. In my younger days there was an occasion when I was let off a list of damning charges... when I asked the cop why he was being so nice he said that usually people were trying to beat him up and that I was a welcome change!

I've got a mate who is a yer typical hairy,bearded HD riding biker and he is an ex-cop... When he was in the force he was a gang-liason officer in Sth Auck and had the respect of both the community AND the Gangs. The Police big-wigs were always on his case cos he "didn't make enuf arrests" plus they wanted him to go undercover but he refused cos he wasn't the sort of the person who could become mates with someone and then dob them in... bloody great guy, we need more cops like him...
:headbang:

Edbear

18th May 2006, 09:18

If we could get some sort of commission system going, that would be great... !

Gasp! Choke! Please, someone, pay these guys more....!:killingme

spudchucka

18th May 2006, 09:54

Cheers, spud et al.

I'd hate to think that someone joined the force for money, but you guys are quite correct - some people DON'T join because of it. At a young age before you have a house, family, etc taking $27k for five months then $43k isn't too bad. But when you're in your 30s when you're got enough life experience and maturity to make a "good" cop, the reality is the money would prevent many from joining. I, for one, couldn't face the financial cost. I could barely keep up the mortgage payments on that, let alone the kid and car. And luxuries like family holidays? Forget it. And that's before we get into all the other negative aspects of the job.

Big ups to those who can make that sacrifice.
I dropped about 20K when I joined up, I'm not moaning about it because I wanted to join and was sick of what I was doing prior to joining. The difficult thing to reconcile yourself with is the impact the change has on your family, (less money to buy them the things they want etc) just because dad wanted to be a cop.

Lou Girardin

18th May 2006, 16:39

they can't recruit enuff cops as is without lowering the standards any further. .

Did you really mean too write that?:killingme :killingme :killingme

Lou Girardin

18th May 2006, 16:42

Some cops are okay (see below)
People should listen to the police band some friday/saturday night

The Police have reformed?
Cool, where are they playing?

Indoo

18th May 2006, 17:16

Did you really mean too write that?:killingme :killingme :killingme

Yeh why, how do you think I got in?

The_Dover

18th May 2006, 17:17

Yeh why, how do you think I got in?

Sexual favours to Clint Rickards?

scumdog

18th May 2006, 18:30

Sexual favours to Clint Rickards?

Hell no, we left that to you and Maurice, hope Clint was happy!!!!

Madness

18th May 2006, 20:39

Finn I think you got a worshipper

Not me dude, I worship no man. I do find Mr Finn's posts entertaining and in the most part intelligent though, I admit. Unlike most of yours.

Anyway, you're just sore over my Mother Theresa comparison from ages ago.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=566419&postcount=180

And If you're attempting to troll here...
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=564408&postcount=90

I ain't biting, sucker.

Quasievil

18th May 2006, 22:01

Not me dude, I worship no man. I do find Mr Finn's posts entertaining and in the most part intelligent though, I admit. Unlike most of yours.

Anyway, you're just sore over my Mother Theresa comparison from ages ago.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=566419&postcount=180

And If you're attempting to troll here...
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=564408&postcount=90

I ain't biting, sucker.

It would take a bit more than your half arsed attempt at wit to make me sore bud. :killingme

madboy

19th May 2006, 14:04

I dropped about 20K when I joined up, I'm not moaning about it because I wanted to join and was sick of what I was doing prior to joining. The difficult thing to reconcile yourself with is the impact the change has on your family, (less money to buy them the things they want etc) just because dad wanted to be a cop.I guess, but it all depends on what level your expenses are geared for. Lotsa pros and cons. Pros is shift work may allow more chances to attend school things, do stuff during the weekday etc. Leave provisions. Job enjoyment. Making a positive contribution to the community. Con is that shiftwork means less quality weekends, stuffed up sleep patterns, missing some family things. Overtime (paid or unpaid is irrelevant, it's still time spent working). Can't hang your "work" clothes on the washing line (not in my area - you'd be asking for trouble). And there would a "pig" in the family, oh dear God that could be the end of the world for some families! In my particular case the immediate sacrifice may be that I just don't upgrade the bike - hardly a "real" issue to me. But my daughter goes to a private school. So the reality is, she'd be changing schools within a year or two because the income just wouldn't support it. I can live without a [insert 2006 model 1000cc sportsbike here]. But should I expect my daughter to change schools, with all the implications on friendships that entails?

spudchucka

19th May 2006, 14:08

I'm not complaining, I still love the job. I was just pointing out the realities of the situation.

ManDownUnder

19th May 2006, 14:11

It would take a bit more than your half arsed attempt at wit to make me sore bud. :killingme

If he asks you to look away and touch your toes... just run!

Lou Girardin

19th May 2006, 16:14

Not me dude, I worship no man. I do find Mr Finn's posts entertaining and in the most part intelligent though, I admit. Unlike most of yours.

Don't say that out loud, he'll have to buy 5 new helmets now.

Motu

19th May 2006, 16:25

But not from you,that means he'd have to pay tax on them....like,that's contributing to the governments funds.

Jamiepo

21st May 2006, 23:42

I myself have only ever had good experiences with the 5-0. I feel a little bit of respect and acceptance of your mistakes goes a long way, it's saved me over $1000 in fines in my brushes with the law. I must say though small town cops have always been a lot nicer than the slickers that I have met. A dickhead doesn't last very long in a town where everyone knows everyone else and they tend to get shunned socially pretty damned quickly. I am currently in my 3rd year at canti uni but am seriously considering joining the police at the end of this year. I would much rather make less money and enjoy the job, than be stuck in some shitty little office racking it in and hating every minute of it. The only problem I have with the police entrance is colour blindness, I able to distinguish and name every single colour but have been tested as being mildly colour blind, I feel that it's stupid that I may not get in just because of this.