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sAsLEX
16th May 2006, 15:35
OK some of you will recall the Auckland University Engineer who was killed by a Foreign Student attempting a u turn with out looking a few years back.

Well this nearly happened again today, and if I was two up like he was at the time I doubt I would be typing this here as I was hard on the brakes and only just pulled short, as a calf shit yellow late model Prelude with our typical foreign student U turned from the left lane without indicating or checking for traffic on Symonds st.

So I think its about time these Visitors to our country were slapped with a few more license restrictions/tests to hopefully avoid more of these accidents just waiting to happen.

And none of the " me dont understand" bullshit when pulled over on the side of the road. They should have licenses revoked if they fuck up once, and then have to go through the graduated license system like the rest of the populace!

Fishy
16th May 2006, 15:43
So I think its about time these Visitors to our country were slapped with a few more license restrictions/tests to hopefully avoid more of these accidents just waiting to happen.

And none of the " me dont understand" bullshit when pulled over on the side of the road. They should have licenses revoked if they fuck up once, and then have to go through the graduated license system like the rest of the populace!

I agree with you 100%!!!

I got hit by a south Korean guy who was driving a volvo back in 1998 and broke most bones down the left side of my body. He was here on an international license and couldn't read english.... how the hell was he supposed to be able to read the rode sign that he was approaching when he smashed into me?

He shouldn't have been on the road.

Postie
16th May 2006, 15:58
I'm glad your ok mate.
But a lot of these guys don't even have a licence

bobsmith
16th May 2006, 16:04
OK some of you will recall the Auckland University Engineer who was killed by a Foreign Student attempting a u turn with out looking a few years back.


Damn was this a couple of years ago (2 and 1/2 ish?) on symonds street by the biosci building in auckland uni? (if you know the area), if so I think I might have been there when it happened? I was sitting in the biosci building (I'm not a pretend scientist, my girlfriend is...) when I heard a loud screech than bang, I went out and saw that a stupid asian driver was attempting a u turn and a bike went under and got killed. (now, you can't tell me I'm being a racist since I'm a south korean by birth myself)

I agree that if people are to drive here, they should at least be tested on their english reading and basic road rules.

Mind you I think irratic u turns on Symonds street has something to do with typical idiotic drivers the university attracts rather than a single national type, I'm sure I've been almost run over just as many times on symonds street by people of all nationalities (I used to be one of those suicidal engineering students who refused to use the stupid underground walkway... besides crossing the road the risking your life is so much more fun than going underground...

bobsmith
16th May 2006, 16:08
I think foreign drivers do have to go through the graduated system if they are staying here for longer than certain amount of time though.

I know one of my friends from alaska who has been driving for several years in alaska got pulled over once after being over here for not that long (6 months maybe???) and got told by the :Police: that she has to get a NZ licence if she's living here (the :Police: might have been bullshitting)

Anyhow, so she did, and she was stuck on restricted licence for ages being very very frustrated since the day before she got her NZ licence she could drive around without restrictions than the next day, she couldn't.

Macktheknife
16th May 2006, 16:11
Im so sick of hearing about this type of shit, I have been hit by a Korean too, she was thankfully in a loaner car because she crashed her SUV the week before! They should all have to sit the NZ licence test WITHOUT a translator to help. Unless the person comes from an english speaking country that drives on the same side of the road... take the test or take the bus.

bobsmith
16th May 2006, 16:19
Damn it, it's moments like this that I didn't say that I'm a korean by birth.

It's funny though that people often specify SOUTH korean isn't it?

because I certainly have never seen a north korean anywhere...

magicfairy
16th May 2006, 16:20
Not much we can do about it - Geneva convention apparently - according to Nanny Knackstead - we can drive on their roads with our license, in return they can drive on ours for up to a year. LTSA have already said not likely to change - even though not all licensing tests are the same.

My issue is :
We don't let foreign doctors practice in this country without passing NZ Exams if they haven't got recognised qualifications, even if our doctors are allowed to practice overseas in their countries. Likewise nurses.
Because the medical profession recognises not all training is equal and someone could get hurt, killed.

Why can't we apply the same reasoning to driving? - they also can hurt / kill someone.
To add insult to injury - we can't sue for personal injury either, so the offender gets a slap on the hand with a wet bus ticket and the victim loses out big time.
If you got taken out in the US or Aus, you'd sue.

rant..rant...

The_Dover
16th May 2006, 16:26
So would all the kiwi's who go overseas on holiday and want to drive a car REALLY want to have to sit a test in the native tongue of any country they visit?

Most of you guys struggle with english.

Finn
16th May 2006, 16:35
Having a license has got nothing to do with driving/riding ability. I'm a classic example - Oldrider gave me the learn a week or so ago. Most kiwi's have a license and can't drive for shit. As for foreigners, it depends on what country (or region in some cases) they come from.

magicfairy
16th May 2006, 16:37
I'd just like to see a system that recognises which countries actually test drivers skill and knowledge and let them drive here, but licenses from other countries only prove you paid they money / bribe and perhaps never got behind the wheel of a car.

But it would all be way to complex, so never likely to happen. There would have to be reciprocal arrangements with the other countries.

Lots of people don't drive in foreign countries because of the financial risk if you cause an accident. ACC laws means that won't happen here, so there is no disincentive.

Karma
16th May 2006, 16:46
I think foreign drivers do have to go through the graduated system if they are staying here for longer than certain amount of time though.

I know one of my friends from alaska who has been driving for several years in alaska got pulled over once after being over here for not that long (6 months maybe???) and got told by the :Police: that she has to get a NZ licence if she's living here (the :Police: might have been bullshitting)

Anyhow, so she did, and she was stuck on restricted licence for ages being very very frustrated since the day before she got her NZ licence she could drive around without restrictions than the next day, she couldn't.

Wrong.

If you've held your license for more than 3 years in your origin country then all you need to do is pass a scratch and win theory test here and you'll have an equivilent license for NZ.

Less than 3 years and you have to sit the practical and theory, but you still get an equivilent license. This is why I only have to do theory for my car license, but practical and theory for my bike. I'll still have a full NZ bike licence even though I've been riding less than people on learners.

ManDownUnder
16th May 2006, 17:06
Im so sick of hearing about this type of shit, I have been hit by a Korean too, she was thankfully in a loaner car because she crashed her SUV the week before! They should all have to sit the NZ licence test WITHOUT a translator to help. Unless the person comes from an english speaking country that drives on the same side of the road... take the test or take the bus.
Gotta disagree - kinda of.

I say they all take the test.

If you're from a coutry on the right side of the road, english speaking etc it'll be a doddle.

If not, it'll be more challenging

It also gets around any bullshit/fake licences, but introduces a whole new set of problems for visiting business types...

Lou Girardin
16th May 2006, 17:24
Sorry guys, but I'm damned if I want sit a licence test every time I want to drive a rental o'seas.
Do you all realise that we'd be regarded just as badly for our driving skills if there were enough of us in, say, Europe.

bell
16th May 2006, 17:40
Exactly Lou G. It didn't take me long to realise just how badly Kiwis drive (sure, not all of them but too bloody many) until I'd been driving on European roads - UK, Netherlands, Germany, France, etc. The word courtesy simply doesn't exist for a lot of drivers on NZ roads. The mentality that goes along the lines of "I'm in a steel cage, warm and dry and cosy and singing along to my stereo and don't need to give a flying fuck about anyone else on the road..." seems to be so entrenched over here. I rarely saw that in Europe, particularly UK. Still, that unpredictable nature of other peoples driving is part of what makes riding a bike so entertaining.

Karma
16th May 2006, 17:50
Plus... indicators.

Do they remove them from cars over here or something? It's so bad that I'm actually shocked now when people indicate to turn.

bell
16th May 2006, 17:55
aaah, don't start me on indicators....did I hear someone mention roundabouts?

SlowHand
16th May 2006, 17:58
I want all wimin to have special licences, since all my crashes and close calls have been caused by them. yes im mature.

boomer
16th May 2006, 17:59
Chukles.... Bloody Tourists!!! Shoot 'em all.


:ride:

Ghost Lemur
16th May 2006, 18:05
Hehe This threads funny.

It's gone from bashing "foriegn" drivers. To admitting how badly NZ drivers are thought of Overseas.

Personally I hate bad inconsiderate drivers. Full stop. Couldn't give a shit which country they were born in or the colour of their skin. It's just a shame there is no shortage of them (especially here in Christchurch).

But then again there is a train of thought that suggests keeping ourselves alive on the roads is "our" responsibility. And if we're in a certain circumstance in which we're not able to avoid a homicidal cager then we should have been doing something different.

While I don't think that is necessarily the case. I do think it is a good attitude to have in order to learn from others (and one's own) mistakes and increase our survival rates.

Anyway Glad you're ok sAsLEX.

dhunt
16th May 2006, 18:08
Plus... indicators.

Do they remove them from cars over here or something? It's so bad that I'm actually shocked now when people indicate to turn.
Nope - you use the horn. Much better - when in doubt use the horn. Going round a blind corner - use the horn, turning use the horn etc ...

I know in some cases people with licenses have never ever driven the vehicles their licenses say they can drive. I.e you pay the money you get the license. Then when they actual coming to do the driving the suck at it even though they've got the proper license etc. Not much you can do about things like this unfortunately due to corrupt governments etc. Money can buy anything.

TwoSeven
16th May 2006, 18:43
Hehe This threads funny.

It's gone from bashing "foriegn" drivers. To admitting how badly NZ drivers are thought of Overseas.


I suspect many 'foreigners' could make one or two observations about the local driving ability and the other way round.

limbimtimwim
16th May 2006, 18:46
Wrong.

If you've held your license for more than 3 years in your origin country then all you need to do is pass a scratch and win theory test he (...) have a full NZ bike licence even though I've been riding less than people on learners.That's not what the LTSA says.

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/factsheets/56.html

Scroll down to "Does everyone sit the practical test?"

Karma
16th May 2006, 18:49
You don't have to sit the practical test if:

you have a licence from Australia, Canada, Norway, a member state of the European Union*, South Africa, Switzerland or the United States of America, and
your licence is current (or has expired within the past 12 months), and
you've held that licence for more than two years.
Notes

If you are in this group, you still need to pass the theory test. If you don't pass the theory test, you cannot drive.
Some countries have driver licensing systems that are very different from New Zealand's. People from these countries do have to sit a practical test. Phone our Driver Licensing Call Centre to find out more (freephone 0800 822 422).
*Applicants from the European Union are only exempt from the practical driving test if they have held, for two years or more, a licence that was issued from the country while it was a member of the EU.


Ok ok... perhaps I should have been more clear...

I don't have to sit the practical car test... same as the EU and some other countries.

Switch
16th May 2006, 18:58
I agree with the testing. At least just a simple test, e.g. read english (for road signs etc), be able to drive etc. If they were simple (possibly cheap) then they could save some lives.
I live just off Symonds street and the driving on that road, (infact all roads around here) is just terrible, i get a good view of an intersection out my window and some of the driving is...kinda scary. I hear tooting constantly, sometimes i even set up my webcam to record, just incase i catch one on video.

sunhuntin
16th May 2006, 20:26
had an american couple in at work the other week...wanted to get to waiouru i think. i showed em on their map and told them to go via the paraparas. being as they were foreign, i told them to take their time going that way etc etc.
bugger me if they dont pull off the forecourt onto the right hand side of the road and preceed to go around a very busy and very big roundabout the wrong way. poor buggers....never heard of an accident, so im guessing they got there! just lucky it wasnt busy, that 'bout can be back logged when it is [5 roads lead up to it]

Flyingpony
16th May 2006, 20:52
It's funny though that people often specify SOUTH korean isn't it?
because I certainly have never seen a north korean anywhere...
I've met exactly one, in Nelson City. He was an ex-air force guy build like a brick of muscles, good English and great personality. He got on well with the south Korean’s (maybe because he's military?) though didn't understand more than 80% of their language, but still enough to get the gist.

Lou Girardin
17th May 2006, 08:10
I want all wimin to have special licences, since all my crashes and close calls have been caused by them. yes im mature.

The definitive oxymoron.

Lou Girardin
17th May 2006, 08:11
I agree with the testing. At least just a simple test, e.g. read english (for road signs etc), be able to drive etc.

So you'd like to kill our tourism industry overnight.

Skyryder
17th May 2006, 20:48
So you'd like to kill our tourism industry overnight.

If you restricted tourists from driving it would have very little impact on the tourist industry as a whole. Rental cars etc would be hit the hardest. Most Asians come in groups and travel by coach. There are many older tourists who also travel by coach. I came across some figures some time ago, not too sure of the percentages but coach tours delt with the most tourists by far. Many fly too. The problem with tourists driving is that they see themselves as tourists first and drivers second. They need to understand that when they are behind the wheel it is the other way round.........drivers first and tourists second.

Pesonaly if it was up to me making the rules they would have to pass a simple test on road sighns. These are internationaly recognised and if they can not pass that then I would asume they have never held a licence.

Skyryder

Skyryder

bobsmith
17th May 2006, 21:09
I agree with skyryder.

Being a asian myself and having asian relatives, I noticed that most asians do not want to drive where they travel. Most asians that cause trouble on our roads are people who have come here to live, not here to visit. Hell, my mother wanted to travel to south island and she wanted to go around on a bus... I said, if you're going to go on a bus, you can go without me (long story but I'll never get on a bus in NZ unless my life depended on it and even then it will be hard), which she did.

Anyhow, for most asians, it is not the norm to travel somewhere and rent a car and drive, most of them either hire private tour guides to drive them around or go in groups in buses.

SlowHand
17th May 2006, 21:23
The definitive oxymoron.

I was thinkin of that as my next album; Strat - The Definitive Oxymoron.
But it seems someone else in music land has taken one similar.
The Oxymorons (http://www.oxymorons.com/)

sAsLEX
17th May 2006, 22:04
Tourists dont bimble round the CBD, can be found in areas where they paint arrows on the road ie queenstown etc

Troll
18th May 2006, 17:36
Sorry guys, but I'm damned if I want sit a licence test every time I want to drive a rental o'seas.
Do you all realise that we'd be regarded just as badly for our driving skills if there were enough of us in, say, Europe.

too bloody true

last time i was in NZ I was appalled and the extremely low standard of driving

Driving standards in NZ are lower than anywhere in europe except possibly portugal where it is so bad I'd never ride there again

scracha
18th May 2006, 20:11
too bloody true
last time i was in NZ I was appalled and the extremely low standard of driving
Driving standards in NZ are lower than anywhere in europe except possibly portugal where it is so bad I'd never ride there again
Shhh...don't tell the Kiwi's. Their standard response to ANY form of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is "if you don't like it then bugger off back home etc etc". Don't ever mention tried and tested transport improvements like trains, exhaust emissions testing and better driver education.

Still, I think it says something good about your average Kiwi that apart from driving, roads, pollution, wages and piss weak beer, it's still a miles better place to live than the UK :laugh:

If you want a better laugh. Taking my first "exploritory" visit into account, I'll have been driving here nearly two years. Only now do I have to sit some stupid theory test (one for the car and one for the bike). Gawd only knows the logic in making someone sit a test after they've been driving for 2 years.

XP@
19th May 2006, 12:55
For the tourists:
* Rental companies should make sure drivers know the differences in our road rules. (they probably do this, but an ACC sponsored leaflets in all the languages would help)
* They should also remind drivers that they should not drive with jetlag (remember the lions tour).

For all drivers not with a kiwi licence. One offence = instant ban until full licence obtained.

International drivers wanting kiwi licence:
Respected countries - can convert to kiwi with a scratch test, unless any serious convictions in their home country.
Other countries or drivers with convictions - should start as restricted.

Plus we should be a lot harder on our own anti-social drivers who insist on drink driving and dangerous driving. Though, this is a double edged sword...

Ixion
19th May 2006, 17:10
All of which is pretty much what we have now.

jord
19th May 2006, 17:29
Saslex. Agreed

i went for my 2nd ever ride a day after i got my leaners about a week ago. about 20 minutes into it, some bastard asain comes roaring out of a concealed side street and without looking or indicatin pulls right out in front of me. now i tel you i gripped my vtz like nothing else, the old vtz gripped those discs lik nothing else i held held the f*^% on.

now i followed him for a bit and eventualy he pulled over. when he got out of the car he came over to me and said "wot yor problam" now without thinkin twice said you mate, did u buy your license? judging by the sudden burst of anger in his eyes he understood. and pushed me...to cut me off on my 1st day of riding is bad enough but to physicaly push me was the final straw. two words... "upper" "cut" then the old helmet bash to the forehead did the trick. he then ran back to his car and slowly drove away. now for a 15 year old this was quite a day

bobsmith
19th May 2006, 20:59
this is why I never understand why people push.

Obviously if you're pushing you're looking for a physical flight. So might as well start with a punch and get a upper hand while you're at it...

Of course, it's pretty stupid for someone to pick a fight with someone who's wrapped up in helmet and lether.

Idiots.

twinkle
20th May 2006, 09:53
Avoid taking symonds street if you can, its pretty difficult to watch parked cars on both sides of the road, four lanes of traffic and the students crossing the road. I think all the accidents i've heard of have been going down the hill too. Not much good it being someone elses fault if you're dead.

Goblin
20th May 2006, 10:44
I dont think changing the licencing would make any difference at all. There are shitloads of people who drive without any kind of licence. (How about the guy with no arms in Tauranga who was done for dangerous driving. He's prolly a better driver than most.)

My cousin was hit head on by some South Africans and lived to tell the tale. Both legs & both arms were broken, left leg was a compound fracture. Broken pelvis and a few ribs but his spine and head were ok. Now the SA's responsible were leaving NZ the following week so didnt even get charged. The driver(a stone mason) was very sorry and bought Dave a really cool new leather jacket and sent it over when he was back in SA. Wrote him a real sorry letter and carried on with his life as normal. Now Dave will never ride again as he has limited use of his left leg. He now lives in Perth as NZ winters are too cold and cause too much pain.
Now tougher licence testing wouldn't have prevented this. It only takes one little lapse in concentration and they forget which side of the road they're supposed to be on and tough shit for anyone coming the other way. It's an inability to concentrate on driving the whole time people are on the road that causes accidents. Not testing. Some people can fly through scratch and win test and still be useless drivers on the road.

I cant speak for Dorkland as I avoid the palce like the plague but there are bad drivers of every race in every city.

Glad you pulled up before impact saslex.

NINJA GIRL
20th May 2006, 11:18
i agree
i have been run over by an islander in a cortina (i hate fords anyway).
no speak english...no licence...no rego or warrant either.
"i not see you" had my lights on too.
wank..
spent 5 years on acc recovering. got permenent disability now.
but im still riding. got a bigger bike now so the next one i hit wont be driving off
after i cut his car in half

Ixion
20th May 2006, 11:18
By conscious choice I have never driven when visiting "drive on the wrong side" countries. It is too dangerous.

We are constantlly being told "driving is a privilege not a right". So how come it's a right for people from other countries?

Edbear
20th May 2006, 11:57
That's not what the LTSA says.

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/factsheets/56.html

Scroll down to "Does everyone sit the practical test?"





Daughter's fiance came out from Germany, he's 28 and has a full German licence. Stayed on it for a year then had to sit the Theory to get the equivalent NZ licences. Didn't have to do the practical even though Germany drives on the other side of the road. He's a very good driver though, the situation in Germany as with most European countries I'd guess, means the eskill level is much higher than here. After all, he's used to driving at 200km/h+! Only problem he's had here, so far, is nearly getting run down while crossing the road the first couple of times cause he looked the wrong way.
Since he met our family, he now wants to get his bike licence! Loves my GSX-F! :ride:

Edbear
20th May 2006, 11:59
Ps. and a couple speeding tickets! Found the local speed limits boring....!

popelli
20th May 2006, 18:35
We are constantlly being told "driving is a privilege not a right". So how come it's a right for people from other countries?

exactly the same way it is a right for Kiwis to drive overseas

as tourism is one on NZ's bigger export earners and creates a lot of jobs ther eis no way the govt is going to change this

NZ has entered into reciprocal licence arrangements with other countries

If this arrangement was cancelled Kiwis would be the first to complain about being hard done by.

Typical example how Kiwis react is their reaction when the Poms made Kiwis sit an english test before applying for british citizenship

as for driving on the other side of the road no big deal, autobahn in germany is a lot safer than the SH1 thru Auckland

Rincewind
27th May 2006, 00:09
Bad drivers are bad drivers irrespective of creed or colour,I have been driving over here now for two years, on two and on four wheels and I have to say that other than the middle east it's the worst place I have ever driven,people refuse to let you out if you wish to join a main road,you can actually see the front of the car lift up as they accelerate towards the junction some times at the top of my road...
I completley fuck em up when I'm driving cause I let em in,I had one guy this week and I could have wrote him a letter by the time he got the message that I was actually going to allow him in front of me !!

And has anyone encountered the dickheads who move over the centre line on purpouse when you are filtering(illeagaly on two wheels of course so book me),they do this out of shear jealousy,I usually go round the other side,stop in front of them and blow em a big kiss (works so much better than the finger)

And why oh why does every one drive so close to one another it's scary,specially when your on a bike and it's a two ton SUV about a metre from your tail lamp....

A bit of courtesy wouldn't go amiss,start today and generate some good Karma,give way at rounabouts,let people out of side roads,let people out of car parks,if they don't get the message HONK YA HORN AND TELL EM TO F******G HURRY UP !!! Ha Ha

rok-the-boat
27th May 2006, 10:12
I have lived/ridden in a few countries.

Sometimes, it is not about English at all - the kind of stupid maneuvers they make (I have seen several mad U-turns by Asians) would be just as illegal / stupid in their own countries. Anyway, there are way more Boy-racer idiots to contend with here.

crazybigal
27th May 2006, 11:56
Its crap! who cares if you have a licence from overseas.
If its not from a english speaking, left had driving country then you should sit the licence or take the bus!
example, a friend of mine lived in Bali for 6 months and paid $$$ for his full licence without doing any test. Came home to NZ and got his full.

The Pastor
27th May 2006, 12:03
So go to bali for a holiday then is it?

Troll
27th May 2006, 12:05
Its crap! who cares if you have a licence from overseas.
If its not from a english speaking, left had driving country then you should sit the licence or take the bus!



and ditto for kiwis wanting to travel the rest of the world on two wheels????

rode around the states on a kiwi licence, reciprocal licence arrangements work both ways

John Banks
28th May 2006, 14:20
How expensive would it be to give visiting drivers a temporary NZ drivers licence (they don't use their original, they get a NZ one issued) which can get taken off them if they were caught playing silly buggers?

Plus, anyone who causes a crash should have to sit a practical test before being allowed to drive again, imho.

ferretface
31st May 2006, 18:56
Its crap! who cares if you have a licence from overseas.
If its not from a english speaking, left had driving country then you should sit the licence or take the bus!
example, a friend of mine lived in Bali for 6 months and paid $$$ for his full licence without doing any test. Came home to NZ and got his full.

Some of these comments really don't make any sense - European countries don't have this problem and don't penalise tourists.
Can you imagine driving around europe and having to get a temporary license/complete a competency test when you enter a new country?? WTF :nono:

Other countries manage okay - The UK is full of immigrants who drive on the wrong side in their own country and Brits STILL has a lower road accident rate than here!

Moral of the story - become a better driver and read the road - (every other road user is an idiot) :yes:

Edbear
31st May 2006, 19:02
(every other road user is an idiot) :yes:




'Cept me, of course...:first:

Ixion
31st May 2006, 19:13
The solution to this seems reasonably simple. If you move to NZ from a foreign country, and have a licence from said country, whether or not you can convert that licence to a NZ one without sitting a practical test, depends on whether said country is on the "Good Countries" list at LTSA. If not, you must sit a practical test..

A simple extension of this list would give us the result. Coming from UK? Good as, licence standard about the same as our own. Coming from Outer Ruritania, with your licence printed on a sliver of yak dung by your brother in law. Sorry, no go.The number of genuine visitors we get from countries not on the list would be small. The number of Kiwis wanting to drive in such countries , also small , should they retaliate. And the latter problems can always be solved by slipping the appropriate offical 1000000000 Washas (the local currency : = $2.80NZ) to issue a nice Ruritanian licence.

The licence conversion thing you do have to sit a theory test. I see no problem with extending the logic . Most countries use internationally recognised symbols for road signs. Those from countries that do, fine off you go. Your country uses its own symbols? Painted on large bits of yak dung. Uh huh. Well could you please fill in this scratch and win card (a simplified one) to show that you understand our signs and rules.

Doesn't cover the driving on wrong side of road problem.Everyone knows that, they just forget.