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skelstar
23rd May 2006, 14:20
Apologies in advance for incorrect forum choice

There seemed much talk and discussion/confusion regarding how peoples tyres were performing on the Taupo track on Sunday. There were Racetechs getting chewed up left-right and centre (mostly left) whereas Super Corsas (apparently) were doing ok.

I understand that there was a Firestorm (or two) going around the track doing 1:19's on Diablo Stradas (pretty quick I imagine) and not suffering any ill-effects. I run stradas (but am slooooooow) and am encouraged by this fact.

For my benefit and peice of mind: how appropriate are these tyres for track-activity, and did they just deal with that track surface a bit better?

PS - I know the bloody-fast guys and girls were get around in 1:12...which is a bit faster.

Fatjim
23rd May 2006, 14:30
My rear Strada held up really well and I was doing 3min 42's. Not a mark on them.

Toast
23rd May 2006, 14:31
No idea what time I was getting, but my Pilot Powers, shockingly (disappointingly even), showed almost no signs of wear.

They went from an ugly commuting-squared shape to a nice round profile during the day, but there was absolutely no tearing despite the knee and pegs being on the ground and the rear having a spins and slips out of the hairpins.

Normally at Puke they'll get sheared, balled and wavy on one side, but I guess due to the much slower speeds at Taupo and the cold track, they never got overly hot to cause that.

Pretty impressed with them. Just wish that I'd abused them more now.

MSTRS
23rd May 2006, 14:33
My rear Strada held up really well and I was doing 3min 42's. Not a mark on them.
How's the chicken strips going mate?

FROSTY
23rd May 2006, 14:33
My opinion---The track surface is still green. Slippery in places and VERY grippy in others with fairly equal use of both sides of the tyres. I think some folk started their tyres cold shearing--literally ripping the tread off early on in the piece and things got worse as the day went on

skelstar
23rd May 2006, 14:33
Additional comment:
My BT056's (OEM tyres for some Hornets) would have balled up big time. I cant get a mark on these Stradas, not in the Taka's or on the track.

edit - Im not that slow on the 'big-open' either..

Two Smoker
23rd May 2006, 14:36
I was doing about 1:14's maybe a touch more on MR's R6.... It had slicks, and was getting chewed up bad on the left... But look at the track... Its predominantly left handers with 2 HUGE increasing radius lefts... Left side is going to cop a punishment... Most bikes with stock suspension are far too soft, resulting in whats more commonly known as cold tear... Best thing to do to solve it (other than whack an ohlins race shock in) is to up your preload and up the pressure slightly...

Matt Bleck
23rd May 2006, 14:36
I got a second hand set of super corsas specially for the day, and they ripped up the same as the race techs I saw ie. cowpoos's

kiwifruit
23rd May 2006, 14:41
Pilot powers showed no signs of use

Fatjim
23rd May 2006, 14:59
How's the chicken strips going mate?

Being rather on the large side I found that I don't have to hang off as much as other do to get the same cornering effect. I followed bugjuice for quite a while and he was getting his "cheek off the seat", but I wasn't. Mind you my cheeks are a bit wider :)
Maybe thats why I don't get ride of the 2 inch wide chicken strips.

Toast
23rd May 2006, 15:00
I was doing about 1:14's maybe a touch more on MR's R6.... It had slicks, and was getting chewed up bad on the left... But look at the track... Its predominantly left handers with 2 HUGE increasing radius lefts... Left side is going to cop a punishment... Most bikes with stock suspension are far too soft, resulting in whats more commonly known as cold tear... Best thing to do to solve it (other than whack an ohlins race shock in) is to up your preload and up the pressure slightly...

Forgive my ignorance, but how will upping the pressures reduce cold tear? In my experience that just causes them to heat up more slowly.

How does cranking the preload in help as well? It will mean suspension movement, less squatting, but also less spinning, right? I have heard that a slightly spinning rear tyre wears less than a gripping and driving one though.

Enlighten us please dude?

Two Smoker
23rd May 2006, 15:23
Forgive my ignorance, but how will upping the pressures reduce cold tear? In my experience that just causes them to heat up more slowly.

How does cranking the preload in help as well? It will mean suspension movement, less squatting, but also less spinning, right? I have heard that a slightly spinning rear tyre wears less than a gripping and driving one though.

Enlighten us please dude?

Its the squatting that causes the wear... If the suspension is soft, the rear end squats down, and it cant do the work thats being asked of it... Having the preload cranked up abit means that there has to be a bigger more harsh bump before the shock compresses meaning the bike doesnt squat as much.

A tyre with a higher pressure results in a slower warm up temp, but also a slower cooling temp... The higher pressure also means that the carcass is less likely to squash due to the rear shock squshing as well...

You will get a similar response from Shaun, but his will be in more detail and easier to understand...

MSTRS
23rd May 2006, 15:25
Being rather on the large side I found that I don't have to hang off as much as other do to get the same cornering effect. I followed bugjuice for quite a while and he was getting his "cheek off the seat", but I wasn't. Mind you my cheeks are a bit wider :)
Maybe thats why I don't get ride of the 2 inch wide chicken strips.
I guess the trainer wheels don't help the lean angle either:nya: :shake: :innocent:

Toast
23rd May 2006, 15:42
Its the squatting that causes the wear... If the suspension is soft, the rear end squats down, and it cant do the work thats being asked of it... Having the preload cranked up abit means that there has to be a bigger more harsh bump before the shock compresses meaning the bike doesnt squat as much.

A tyre with a higher pressure results in a slower warm up temp, but also a slower cooling temp... The higher pressure also means that the carcass is less likely to squash due to the rear shock squshing as well...

You will get a similar response from Shaun, but his will be in more detail and easier to understand...

Cheers, kinda gotcha. Still not so sure about the tyre thing though. I'd not have thought that the tyre would have time to cool down at any point.

Gixxer 4 ever
23rd May 2006, 15:45
Its the squatting that causes the wear... If the suspension is soft, the rear end squats down, and it cant do the work thats being asked of it... Having the preload cranked up abit means that there has to be a bigger more harsh bump before the shock compresses meaning the bike doesnt squat as much.

A tyre with a higher pressure results in a slower warm up temp, but also a slower cooling temp... The higher pressure also means that the carcass is less likely to squash due to the rear shock squshing as well...

You will get a similar response from Shaun, but his will be in more detail and easier to understand...
I can tell you this man knows his stuff. He, and a few others, helped me set up my 96 GSX-R 750V on here. It made a world of difference. I had a few tyre problem and since I changed the preload and rebound it handles great and the tyre wear is now even. Thanks TS. Also the question was asked ( back in the thread I started ages ago ) if the rear shock had been lifted on this bike. the answer is Yes 8mm. Go Craig. If I can find the thread I will post a link to it.

Gixxer 4 ever
23rd May 2006, 16:05
here
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=23886

Warr
23rd May 2006, 16:24
Not running the HP that your <2K bikes are putting out..
Session 2 was the only one I got times for and was running 1.28's
Running Diablo Stradas and they went sweet.
Trackday 1 at Manfield was the only other I have done and running just the Diablo on my '84 XJ900 the rear was showing lots of use.
Was a warmer time of the year tho too.

Fatjim
23rd May 2006, 17:10
I guess the trainer wheels don't help the lean angle either:nya: :shake: :innocent:

This from a "man" who wouldn't go out on the track without his missus on the back.

Training wheels beat a handbrake any day!

MSTRS
23rd May 2006, 17:46
This from a "man" who wouldn't go out on the track without his missus on the back.

Training wheels beat a handbrake any day!
*splutters coffee all over monitor*
Oh Jim??? What will you do when 'she' reads this??
It won't be pretty:nono:

jimbo600
23rd May 2006, 17:53
Its the squatting that causes the wear... If the suspension is soft, the rear end squats down, and it cant do the work thats being asked of it... Having the preload cranked up abit means that there has to be a bigger more harsh bump before the shock compresses meaning the bike doesnt squat as much.

A tyre with a higher pressure results in a slower warm up temp, but also a slower cooling temp... The higher pressure also means that the carcass is less likely to squash due to the rear shock squshing as well...

You will get a similar response from Shaun, but his will be in more detail and easier to understand...

Preload affects sag. Harden the suspenders with upping rebound and compression adjustment. I upped both on the rear and got a less squat and wallow but still experienced tyre shredding and blistering on OEM BT014s. More air in the tyre keeps it cooler according to Metzeler techs and they know their shit.

madboy
23rd May 2006, 18:00
Can't talk for Taupo, but if Skelstars talking takas... I find the scuffing up of the tyre happens most when I'm abusing the throttle out of corners. I can ride at the same corner speed but with less violent throttle use on exit and you'd barely notice the tyre had been touched.

But that's probably why I can't keep up with the big boys like Jimbo over the takas... And with the short time it takes over the takas you'd get no where near the same heat into the tyres as you would circulating around a race track constantly on or very near the limit for XX minutes.

Karma
23rd May 2006, 18:07
I was running pilot roads, and not really going that fast in comparison to others, but they've hardly got a mark on them.

Two Smoker
23rd May 2006, 18:12
Preload affects sag. Harden the suspenders with upping rebound and compression adjustment. I upped both on the rear and got a less squat and wallow but still experienced tyre shredding and blistering on OEM BT014s. More air in the tyre keeps it cooler according to Metzeler techs and they know their shit.

By upping the preload, it is a quick fix for a shock that is too soft... By upping the preload you change the point at which the spring compresses... The best solution is to put in a new heavy (or harder) spring which changes the spring rate....

ie you can have a soft spring with the preload wound right up to get good sag, or a hard spring with little preload to get good sag...

Compression dampening will change the rate at which the spring is compressed, but there is only so far you can go...

As for tyre temp... meh, i was losing the leading edge and getting feathering on my SC0 front at 30psi... upped it to 33psi, and it no longer had that feathering...

Also BT014 isnt the best track tyre, especially with the way you ride... It was most likely over heating resulting in the blistering... Cold tear is a "old" term, it doesnt mean that it is being torn up because the tyre is cold....

Plus i know shit all, but i am trying to learn and experience different adjustments...

Fluffy Cat
23rd May 2006, 18:14
Ok dont know if this helps but here goes.
This was my second outing at Taupo same tyre types both times Diablo slicks, sc1 front, sc2 rear.
Bike is a stripped down FZR400sp so weight might be around 150kgs
Rider and gear 100kgs.
Front 28psi
Rear 30psi
First trackday was the recent Rodders day. A lot of time on the track and a very ripped up front and not to bad on the rear but not quite there to much wear for this small bike.
Others on the day similar bikes same tyres same wear some said it was cold shear. I was not using tyre warmers but was doing 2 warmup laps each session so not pushing to hard to start. Was using shot suspension with wrong spring rates. The rear was blown.

This track day all new suspension from hyperpro, not everyones cup of tea but better than before.
Front 30psi
Rear 30psi
Did the same warming up and this time much better wear. The front needed some attention as was a bit choppy on the bends into the straight so very slowly reduced the front comp damping and took a turn off the preload(was running on almost no preload). This improved control heaps on the front but the back end was very slightly choppy on comp so one click back. This was using those same bends and bumps as a marker. Much improved Hyperpro seemed to have set the rear shock up almost spot on for me that day.
But the front was still not right so 2 more clicks off the front comp. Better but the biggest prob of the day was front end chatter braking into those same bends off the back straight and, at the end of the front straight. This was causing me to be much gentler on the brakes than i like.
I think the front prob is the air spring and will take out some oil for the next practice session.
I think a lot of the cold shear prob is in fact poor suspension set up that could be fixed with better set up. It has been a bit of trial and error on the front end as the hyperpro springs are for the FZR400rr which has no adjustment so the given oil heights are prob off. Though the new springs and different weight oil 15 weight instead of 10 made the rebound and comp adjustments work, as before they had verry limited actions. Also need to sort out a fueling glitch on the long left hander so will go up from 115 to 120s and see what that does.
Looking forward to my next practice at Puke......

Two Smoker
23rd May 2006, 18:19
Looking forward to my next practice at Puke......

Come along on the third of June.. ill be pottering around...

Fluffy Cat
23rd May 2006, 18:21
Sounds good to me will be there if not doing the work thing. Might even have the RS going again.

jimbo600
23rd May 2006, 18:27
By upping the preload, it is a quick fix for a shock that is too soft... By upping the preload you change the point at which the spring compresses... The best solution is to put in a new heavy (or harder) spring which changes the spring rate....

ie you can have a soft spring with the preload wound right up to get good sag, or a hard spring with little preload to get good sag...

Compression dampening will change the rate at which the spring is compressed, but there is only so far you can go...

As for tyre temp... meh, i was losing the leading edge and getting feathering on my SC0 front at 30psi... upped it to 33psi, and it no longer had that feathering...

Also BT014 isnt the best track tyre, especially with the way you ride... It was most likely over heating resulting in the blistering... Cold tear is a "old" term, it doesnt mean that it is being torn up because the tyre is cold....

Plus i know shit all, but i am trying to learn and experience different adjustments...

Yeah I know about the BT014 but its OEM on the bike and I aint got funds to bin em and replace them with proper tyres so I have to suck it up. New BT014s are better than the old ones though I have to say.

I find that Air from Shell is much more grippy than air from BP what about you?

The Stranger
23rd May 2006, 18:55
Was running a Michelin macadam on the rear.
and a pilot power on the front.

What a deadly combination.
Seriously deadly.

First time I have seen a tyre polished to a really smooth, high gloss finish by tar seal. You just know you are going to get high milage.

Um does it count as getting your knee down if the bike follows your knee on down?

Karma
23rd May 2006, 18:57
Thigh down, head down, shoulder down... it's all good stuff...

cowpoos
23rd May 2006, 19:03
Um does it count as getting your knee down if the bike follows your knee on down?
only if the head and shoulder don't touch down aswell!!!! lmfao

The Stranger
23rd May 2006, 19:03
Thigh down, head down, shoulder down... it's all good stuff...

Yeah that was awesome fun. Highly recommended.

I am thinking of starting a new adventure tourism business.

MD
23rd May 2006, 19:47
I find that Air from Shell is much more grippy than air from BP what about you?
That might be the case but Mr Daytona told me I'd get better fuel economy with Caltex air in my tyres. so I'm doing my bit to save the planet

You Guys are getting far to technical. You need to use my simple three point tyre checklist. Rossi paid me for the rights to use this in his upcoming autobiography.
1. count em, two tyres, one at each end - tick
2. made out of black rubbery stuff - tick
3. shape. A circle - tick
....ride

DEATH_INC.
23rd May 2006, 19:49
Dunno wot you guys are on about, my tyres are still mint! (pirelli slicks) Only change from rodders trackday (apart from tyres, I tore up a rear power race) was lifting the rear another 8mm or so and MORE rear tyre pressure (thanks Sudeep) up 2psi to 32 rear 30 front (same). Pity I can't say the same about my toe sliders, anyone know what pressure I should use in them?

jimbo600
23rd May 2006, 19:55
Dunno wot you guys are on about, my tyres are still mint! (pirelli slicks) Only change from rodders trackday (apart from tyres, I tore up a rear power race) was lifting the rear another 8mm or so and MORE rear tyre pressure (thanks Sudeep) up 2psi to 32 rear 30 front (same). Pity I can't say the same about my toe sliders, anyone know what pressure I should use in them?

Swap your boots over right on left and left on right mate. Much more betterer.

Velox
23rd May 2006, 20:06
Yep - my rear tyre especially was ABSOLUTELY ripped to shreds!!!! Really, really ripped up. I only say Poos' tyre that were getting near as bad as mine. Don't know why cause half the people there were going harder than me and I'm sure lots would've had Racetechs on too. It only happened in the last few sessions - "cold shearing" evidently, and even when we dropped the pressure. It was like leaving little $5 notes all around the track (if I'd paid full price for them).

Some people said that the Taupo track in particular is known for doing this?!

motobob
23rd May 2006, 21:22
I've ridden on different bikes with different tyres and each tyre has different wear patterns.

CBR600 with Ohlins shock and Super corsa pros sc2 with 31 psi got "cold shearing" Bit of tyre slipping happening on some turns as well.

GSXR 810 with Ohlins shock and Super corsa pros sc2 36 psi "slight shearing" WT said he had plenty of grip. I didn't try too hard as I own enought bikes as it is.

SV650 with Ohlins shock and Slick SC2 30 psi "small 13mm band of wear half way up side of tyre and slight cold tearing pattern" hard to describe. Grip wise OK but slid on white grid markings.

SV650 with Ohlins shock and Pilot Powers " no visible wear at all and no problems with grip. The shock spring was also softer than when running Slick.

Noted during PMCC race that Cleve Browns R6 running Pilot Powers had no wear pattern on his tyre while running same pace as my CBR.

The only conclusion I can draw from this is that if you want your to have grip left in them then don't use "Supersport" tyres unless they have high pressure in them. Suspension settings do not have as much of an effect as should be expected. Different riding ablities appear to have little effect as well.

Mental Trousers
23rd May 2006, 21:25
Was using Pilot Powers - 31psi front 34psi rear (2psi down on what the manual reccomends). Not a mark on them. In fact, any marks that were there before disappeared. Only problem I had with them was riding off the edge of the things.

First lap of each session I'd wait until I got to the drag strip straight before I wound her up so they were getting about 3/4 of a lap to warm up.

yungatart
23rd May 2006, 21:31
This from a "man" who wouldn't go out on the track without his missus on the back.

Training wheels beat a handbrake any day!

Oh boy - you know that cucumber - well, I know where its going!! Thats the thanks I get for being a gracious hostess....handbrake indeed..

MD
23rd May 2006, 21:34
[size="1"]
I understand that there was a Firestorm (or two) going around the track doing 1:19's on Diablo Stradas (pretty quick I imagine) and not suffering any ill-effects
Did anyone else notice that Dude on the black VTR ! Bloody hell he was far too fast for a bike like that, on tyres like that (no offence intended to VTR owners, I had one once). I had a chat to him. Said his name was Fish but not the KBer 'Fish'. Shit a brick he was a good rider. He had the Pirelli stradas like Skelstar said. They're more a tourer than sports aren't they? Well what ever he didn't seem to know that. He was cornering at amazing lean angles, sparks flying. He needed knee sliders attached to the sides of his tank. Thumbs up to that man.

Sensei
23rd May 2006, 21:48
Good to see ya don't need Track tyres to go fast on . You just have to know what you have !

motobob
23rd May 2006, 21:48
Did anyone else notice that Dude on the black VTR ! Bloody hell he was far too fast for a bike like that, on tyres like that (no offence intended to VTR owners, I had one once). I had a chat to him. Said his name was Fish but not the KBer 'Fish'. Shit a brick he was a good rider. He had the Pirelli stradas like Skelstar said. They're more a tourer than sports aren't they? Well what ever he didn't seem to know that. He was cornering at amazing lean angles, sparks flying. He needed knee sliders attached to the sides of his tank. Thumbs up to that man.

Thats nothing. The guy rides the Coro loop the same way. I thought I was gonna die trying to keep him in sight on one ride. I reckon it's caused by shagging toothless Wahines on a Saturday nite in Te Aroha.

There are a few maniacs around on Firestorms that ride them harder than Rossi does with his M1.

speights_bud
23rd May 2006, 21:57
How's the chicken strips going mate?
Smaller than yours mate:nya: :dodge:

trumpy
23rd May 2006, 22:07
Didn't care what tyres I had (they were Pilot Powers by the way), just extatic to finally get rid of my chicken strips...yaaay:clap:. Thought "this is pretty cool" then got passed by two bikes with pillions:gob: ...........bastards (actually, really awsome skills guys!). Back to the pits, head down, deflated, depressed.....thank goodness for Prozac:o .
Tyres show very little wear but that may have been because I was so slow...

MSTRS
23rd May 2006, 22:12
Smaller than yours mate:nya: :dodge:
Not difficult to be smaller than mine:blip:

Toast
23rd May 2006, 22:19
Thats nothing. The guy rides the Coro loop the same way. I thought I was gonna die trying to keep him in sight on one ride. I reckon it's caused by shagging toothless Wahines on a Saturday nite in Te Aroha.

There are a few maniacs around on Firestorms that ride them harder than Rossi does with his M1.

Who is this dude? Sounds like he might be some fun to ride The Loop with.

speights_bud
23rd May 2006, 22:26
Speaking of pillion sessions, i am curently running a battlax bt45 on the rear of my GPX 250. This was put on brand new for the last track day and has done around 7-8,000 km/s. I threw dad on the back (Gixxer 4 Ever) to do a few lapswith the pillion session as his gixxer didn't have the seat attached. I was veryhappy with how it performed for this short time, especially with me a 85kg rider and a 110kg pillion sitting above and behind me. Must have looked goofy but im impressed with how the tyre held up despite the side stand etc continually scraping the ground.

Speaking of which did anyone manage to catch a photo of us? i noticed everyone along pit lane was having a good laugh the first lap or two:blip:

yungatart
23rd May 2006, 22:33
did anyone manage to catch a photo of us? i noticed everyone along pit lane was having a good laugh the first lap or two:blip:
We were behind you for a lap or two and you guys strongly resembled a pumpkin on a pimple from where we sat....the sparks flying out were very impressive tho and I have to say your poor little Kwaka may have been somewhat squashed under the load you made her carry but she was certainly not sluggish! Would also love to see any photos of the pillion session, post 'em up fellas!

speights_bud
23rd May 2006, 22:34
How's the chicken strips going mate?:

Smaller than yours mate:

Not difficult to be smaller than mine:blip:

Clearly it's past your bed time and i can't think of anything else to say... Gosh:bye:

speights_bud
23rd May 2006, 22:39
We were behind you for a lap or two and you guys strongly resembled a pumpkin on a pimple from where we sat....the sparks flying out were very impressive tho and I have to say your poor little Kwaka may have been somewhat squashed under the load you made her carry but she was certainly not sluggish! Would also love to see any photos of the pillion session, post 'em up fellas!

Yes it took several laps for gixxer 4 ever to settle down and stop crushing me with his knees before every corner, only to be started again when yourself and MSTRS cruised past resulting in G4E having ideas that i might actually try and keep up:blip:

MD
23rd May 2006, 22:48
Thats nothing. The guy rides the Coro loop the same way. I thought I was gonna die trying to keep him in sight on one ride. I reckon it's caused by shagging toothless Wahines on a Saturday nite in Te Aroha.

There are a few maniacs around on Firestorms that ride them harder than Rossi does with his M1.
You might want to rewrite that before ya missus sees it Motobob. Are you saying he shags toothless wahines or you do? ha, got ya.

motobob
23rd May 2006, 22:51
He rides with Kornholio. They do the Coro loop pretty regular. So give K a PM to hook up with them.

Arven
23rd May 2006, 23:29
My Pilot Powers were mint! Sanded to a smooth finish. I was a little dissapointed! :P Looks like i need to get on the power more while cranked over...

Gixxer 4 ever
23rd May 2006, 23:38
Yes it took several laps for gixxer 4 ever to settle down and stop crushing me with his knees before every corner, only to be started again when yourself and MSTRS cruised past resulting in G4E having ideas that i might actually try and keep up:blip:

I can't believe I did that. The first 3 laps were a nightmare. I did relax after that but he did chase you after you passed us. I didn't ride this track day cos one of my other sons gets married this weekend coming up and we reckoned plaster in a suit was not the best. When SP cranked the pace up I had images of calling Mr's Gixxer 4 ever to pick the bikes up with the trailer and pick us up from the hospital with matching plasters.
It didn't happen and I have to congratulate SP for a job well done.
That's how desperate I was to see the new track.:love:

Deano
24th May 2006, 08:31
As for tyre temp... meh, i was losing the leading edge and getting feathering on my SC0 front at 30psi... upped it to 33psi, and it no longer had that feathering...


Is that cause the tyre wasn't heating up enough to expand to optimum pressure ?

I was always told to run less pressure in hot conditions..

DEATH_INC.
24th May 2006, 08:48
Swap your boots over right on left and left on right mate. Much more betterer.
Cheers bud, glad that's sorted.

clint640
24th May 2006, 09:37
Speaking of pillion sessions, i am curently running a battlax bt45 on the rear of my GPX 250. This was put on brand new for the last track day and has done around 7-8,000 km/s. I threw dad on the back (Gixxer 4 Ever) to do a few lapswith the pillion session as his gixxer didn't have the seat attached. I was veryhappy with how it performed for this short time, especially with me a 85kg rider and a 110kg pillion sitting above and behind me. Must have looked goofy but im impressed with how the tyre held up despite the side stand etc continually scraping the ground.



Yeah the dirty 'ol BT45 I had on the back of the KTM did pretty well too, I was thinking of splashing out on something stickier for the back but I'm glad I didn't as apart from a couple of wee skips over the paint coming onto the pit straight I couldn't shake it. The front BT45 stuck pretty well too up to a point (the point where it let go & I crashed!) But given the 21" is basically a harley tyre it did OK. & the set cost about the same as one tyre for a proper sprotsbike.

Cheers
Clint

loosebruce
24th May 2006, 09:48
I ran Pirelli slicks SC1 front and SC2 rear, both 30psi, both using warmers, never had a problem until the gen crapped out and we had no warmers, then cold shearing became an issue, just to be different, all the wear people were getting on the rear, i got on the front and killed it good and proper, the rear is still mint, go figure!
But id put most of the wear down to cold shear on the day, track temp was not very high.
The thing about taupo, is the lefts that you encounter, some are quite long and you are pretty hard on the power at the same time. With road tyres i'd be tempted to run almost road pressure, the road tyres of today warm up so quickly and are designed to not even need a drop in pressure to give grip on the track, most manufactuers recomend keeping psi the same for road and track.

skelstar
24th May 2006, 10:36
Just an aside:

What speed were guys you doing on the exit of the left-hand sweeper and into the esses before getting onto the drag-strip-straight? I was doing about 120km/h but was braking way too hard into the esses apparently.

Just want to know for relevance/comparison. I want to know from all skill levels/bikes.

Two Smoker
24th May 2006, 10:43
Just an aside:

What speed were guys you doing on the exit of the left-hand sweeper and into the esses before getting onto the drag-strip-straight? I was doing about 120km/h but was braking way too hard into the esses apparently.

Just want to know for relevance/comparison. I want to know from all skill levels/bikes.

4th gear on the R6 i think??? maybe 180kmh??? on the long left sweeper... down to second for the esses and the left onto the dragstrip... Dont look at things in kmh... look at things with how much lean angle you had...

dss3
24th May 2006, 10:47
4th gear on the R6 i think??? maybe 180kmh??? on the long left sweeper... down to second for the esses and the left onto the dragstrip... Dont look at things in kmh... look at things with how much lean angle you had...

Wouldn't be suprised if you would even be going faster, I find that at the end of the long left it straigtens for a bit where you can accelerate hard for a bit before braking. I was in third gear, as it was too fast for 2nd gear. Knowing that 2nd gear does about 190 kmh, I would estimate doing around 190 or a bit higher.

emaN
24th May 2006, 10:57
Just an aside:

What speed were guys you doing on the exit of the left-hand sweeper and into the esses before getting onto the drag-strip-straight?

this was the only time the whole day i glanced at my speedo - it was around 90mph...so @150k's

made a decision not to look again after that.

skelstar
24th May 2006, 10:57
Yeah fair enough - not much lean as dont trust tyres at that speed yet. Was just curious about my speed at the time I guess. Have no idea what gear I am in half the time either ;).

2much
24th May 2006, 13:31
just to be different, all the wear people were getting on the rear, i got on the front and killed it good and proper, the rear is still mint, go figure!

Yep, had the same thing on the front while the rear was nice and smooth. Michelin Power Race's, 30psi rear, 35psi front.



Just an aside:

What speed were guys you doing on the exit of the left-hand sweeper and into the esses before getting onto the drag-strip-straight? I was doing about 120km/h but was braking way too hard into the esses apparently.

Just want to know for relevance/comparison. I want to know from all skill levels/bikes.

Was on the limiter in 2nd doing 195k's through the last part of the sweeper. found I could just hold onto Bruce and Darrell along there, gonna have to change to race pattern so that I can select 3rd.

dss3
24th May 2006, 13:34
Yep, had the same thing on the front while the rear was nice and smooth. Michelin Power Race's, 30psi rear, 35psi front.




Was on the limiter in 2nd doing 195k's through the last part of the sweeper. found I could just hold onto Bruce and Darrell along there, gonna have to change to race pattern so that I can select 3rd.

Yep, I change into third just as you enter the "sweepery" part of the corner after you come out of the tight left hander. Don't think that would be so easy to do with the standard gearshift, wouldn't be able to get toes under the shifter.

2much
24th May 2006, 13:42
Yep, I change into third just as you enter the "sweepery" part of the corner after you come out of the tight left hander. Don't think that would be so easy to do with the standard gearshift, wouldn't be able to get toes under the shifter.

Yep, that's exactly where I was thinking it would be nice to be able to change cause you pick it up abit before leaning it back down into the sweeper. But I wasn't keen to to get my foot jammed under there.

skelstar
24th May 2006, 13:46
Were you guys holding much of that 160-180ish km/h into the esses? I braked HEAPS (changed down twice) into them before pitching over for the turn into the drag strip.

dss3
24th May 2006, 13:52
Were you guys holding much of that 160-180ish km/h into the esses? I braked HEAPS (changed down twice) into them before pitching over for the turn into the drag strip.

For what its worth, what I did was try to stay tight to the inside of the sweeper, then at the end of the sweeper you can pick bike up and accelerate a bit before the "esses", then brake hard, still braking as you went past the first cone on the right, then get off brake and tip it over to the left to take the corner, don't brake too late though cause you run wide exiting the corner and its really slippery. My opinion anyways...

Karma
24th May 2006, 13:56
I never looked at my speedo the whole time... too busy trying to get the corners sorted.

I know I came into the first turn at the end of the start / finish straight a bit hot a couple of times, nearly locked up the front on one of them, that would have been interesting....

Mental Trousers
24th May 2006, 14:06
I was at about 12,000rpm (red line 14,500rpm) in 3rd gear by the time I hit the brakes for the esses onto that straight. Dunno what that works out to.

I was short shifting after the short full throttle bit coming out of the left hairpin (turn 7) into 3rd then nailing it all the way through that sweeper. I don't think others would want to do that as my bike comes standard with a close ratio box so I wasn't dropping many revs by short shifting.

Two Smoker
24th May 2006, 15:18
For what its worth, what I did was try to stay tight to the inside of the sweeper, then at the end of the sweeper you can pick bike up and accelerate a bit before the "esses", then brake hard, still braking as you went past the first cone on the right, then get off brake and tip it over to the left to take the corner, don't brake too late though cause you run wide exiting the corner and its really slippery. My opinion anyways...

I do the same... BUT IM MY OPINION..... dss3 is a homo...

emaN
24th May 2006, 15:32
During lunch when Stroudy was getting a few laps in, it sounded like he was short-shifting 'round that l/h sweeper

kiwifruit
24th May 2006, 15:46
he told gsf bandit he was coming out in forth so he could get it down early

Matt Bleck
24th May 2006, 15:52
nice avatars

skelstar
24th May 2006, 15:54
Avatars brought to you by babyB's camera no-doubt.

motobob
24th May 2006, 16:24
You might want to rewrite that before ya missus sees it Motobob. Are you saying he shags toothless wahines or you do? ha, got ya.

Maybe I should chase the Wahines that way I can pick my speed up if I think one's chasing me. Good thing I didn't see this last nite or I would have had nightmares thinking about it.

It is intriguing that every one has different experiences with their tyres out there.

Kickaha
24th May 2006, 18:00
Yeah the dirty 'ol BT45 I had on the back of the KTM did pretty well too, I was thinking of splashing out on something stickier for the back but I'm glad I didn't as apart from a couple of wee skips over the paint coming onto the pit straight I couldn't shake it. The front BT45 stuck pretty well too up to a point (the point where it let go & I crashed!)

Cheers
Clint

I had BT45 front and rear on the Rd350LC and didn't have any moments with them at all despite being a bit worried at the start of the day because of the cold track


Just an aside:
What speed were guys you doing on the exit of the left-hand sweeper and into the esses before getting onto the drag-strip-straight? I was doing about 120km/h but was braking way too hard into the esses apparently.

Just want to know for relevance/comparison. I want to know from all skill levels/bikes.

The FXR150 was indicating 120kmh, dunno about he RD350LC as the speedo isn't connected but it was tapped out in 4th just before I was braking

Toast
24th May 2006, 18:57
I ran Pirelli slicks SC1 front and SC2 rear, both 30psi, both using warmers, never had a problem until the gen crapped out and we had no warmers, then cold shearing became an issue, just to be different, all the wear people were getting on the rear, i got on the front and killed it good and proper, the rear is still mint, go figure!
But id put most of the wear down to cold shear on the day, track temp was not very high.
The thing about taupo, is the lefts that you encounter, some are quite long and you are pretty hard on the power at the same time. With road tyres i'd be tempted to run almost road pressure, the road tyres of today warm up so quickly and are designed to not even need a drop in pressure to give grip on the track, most manufactuers recomend keeping psi the same for road and track.

As a general rule, yep, current gen road tyres with their funky mix of rubber and God knows what don't need much of a pressure drop.

PPs at about 30psi on Puke usually lead to overheating after about 5 laps on a normal day. I can get away with around 38 in the rear there, and not notice much of an effect on grip.

In the freezing cold morning (for an Aucklander) at Taupo on Saturday, 36/39 psi (owing to a shit servo air pump) led to a pretty slippery ride for the first 3 laps.

Dropping that to 33/36 meant that they only took about half a lap to warm up to a level I had confidence in.

For the last couple of sessions I let a bit more out, estimating about 31/33 in them, and they felt better again.

Track temp and the speed of the corners plays a fairly big part then. The PPs treated me damn well at Taupo, despite being quite worn.

emaN
25th May 2006, 10:16
he told gsf bandit he was coming out in forth so he could get it down early

i thought he was getting into 4th!
he must'a had lower gearing than most....i guess he'd also still be accelerating when most of us are starting to back off

kiwifruit
25th May 2006, 10:58
nice avatars

Hell yeah! Im bloody stoked! Cheers again

Matt Bleck
25th May 2006, 11:20
Avatars brought to you by babyB's camera no-doubt.

SlickD actually, whom is still getting around to making his first post.

Toast
25th May 2006, 15:08
i thought he was getting into 4th!
he must'a had lower gearing than most....i guess he'd also still be accelerating when most of us are starting to back off

I'm sure he's got lowish gearing, but he'd not have been too near to redline coming out of it I don't think.

Point of him short shifting coming in to the sweeper is to keep the power smoother and get better contact from the rear tyre (more revs are unnecessary through there).

DEATH_INC.
25th May 2006, 16:21
I'm pretty tapped through 3rd so that's about 180k or so.