Fucking Managers!

[Lias]

I need to rant!

Wolf and I are in the middle of a restructuring at work at the moment, and we've just gotten a leaked copy of the finalized structure some 4 hours short of when we actually have our personal meetings with management. Our departments losses are all at the worker level, and the new plan now shows that we have 1 manager for every 3.4 staff in our department. How the FUCK can anyone justify that level of management vs staffing in redundancies? Goddamn managers need to all be lined up and shot.

Not to mention our team leader has been told that we're all moving to new contracts, with possibly lower pay rates, AND we're going from 9-5 work to 7-9 shift work.

*FUME*

[DemonWolf]

Jeez mate.. that seems abit harsh.

[Colapop]

The job market is still quite bouyant at the moment... maybe a move could be justified? In the mean time - roll with it.

[Biohazard]

WTF :eek5: typical tbh men in suits playing war :tugger:

[Blackbird]

Welcome to the realisation that Human Resources people (including managers who execute HR policy are the least skilled at managing change and have the poorest people skills of any group (short of IT... joke, honest:nya: ). I think that's been pretty much the case in all the organisational changes I've been involved with.

[Edbear]

Aren't you IT chappies and chappesses, (!sp), in rather hot demand at the mo? I reckon you've got some bargaining power on your side, haven't you?:wait:

[Mental Trousers]

Look at where you work. Are you honestly surprised that the management structure resembles a butt plug!!

[Sniper]

That sucks arse dude, retribution is needed

[crashe]

Lias - I know some working within the same organisation as you...
Wont name the person thou.... but their job is on the line...
They are looking at finding a new job... and travelling up to Ak daily if need be.

Hang in there til it all settles down. At least you still have a job.

[Switch]

Sucks to hear that Lias. Hope everything works out alright

[Paul in NZ]

Dude. Been through this a million times from both sides.

Getting angry will not help - keep calm, analyse the situation and see if there is some way you can exploit the changes to suit yourself. The fact is, change happens... It always will... The people that do the best out of this are people that handle change.

Paul N

ps - first time it happened to me I went all ranty and apeshit and got nowhere...

[Lou Girardin]

Why don't you sabotage their IT systems.
That'll learn 'em

[Finn]

Nasty. Business today is so focused on bottom line profitability just to appease their share price and of course shareholders that they forget about customers and staff. They will do anything to achieve immediate results with no long-term thinking and unfortunately shit rolls downhill. Corporates create a crippling hierarchical management structure thick with self-protecting middle management that 1) hide the truth from senior management and 2) fuck over the little guys at the drop of a hat.

Yes, I am a through and through capitalist but try hard to look after my staff. If they're happy, your customers will be happier. Flat management structure - no bullshit. Never made anyone redundant even when time where tough. No problems firing the losers, they drag everyone down.

Good luck.

[Fatjim]

I'm gonna get all conspiracy theory with you.

Nowadays in our PC world mgmt have to let workers have a say in major changes like this. It helps stop all the personall greveince stuff.

So what they do is come up with an initial proposal that they know won't fly, just so that the real plan doesn't have to go through the feedback part.

When we had one last year they rolled out this plan, took the feedback and then rolled out a completely different plan.

Now as far as what you should do, just make the best of it, never burn your bridges, don't get angry and look after no.1 and those around you if you can.

[festus]

Yes been there done that, the global company I worked for was the same, too much management and not enough workers.........IT has always gone through changes and always will, restructering is the norm and management always cover arse and self preservation is what they are good at..........

[ajturbo]

welcome to the real world

[madboy]

3.4 workers per non-worker? That's efficient. My boss has 13 direct reports. Could be why he's on holiday this week. Maybe he's applying for a job at your place?

Can't say I've ever been through a restructure where my job is on the line. But one thing is for sure - don't ever expect management to act in the interests of anyone but themselves. I'm interested in providing for me and my family first, and doing a good job for the company second. Many people rank the company a lot lower than that, but their own personal interests still sit at the top. So if a short-term business decision puts them in a better personal position, many will. How many of these people will be around when the long-term consequences bite? And if they are, will they necessarily be affected by it anyway?

I feel for your position Lias. But once the anger has subsided you'll appreciate the naivity in thinking that management care about you or the company's long term good.

[Lias]

So what they do is come up with an initial proposal that they know won't fly, just so that the real plan doesn't have to go through the feedback part.

This IS the revised plan :-)

On the upside I just got a "your position has been confirmed" letter so I'm feeling pretty relieved.. I still think the level of management is complete bollocks thou.

[T.W.R]

Had to leave my job due to policy changes and read in the ER Act that the Employment Relations Authority cannot make a determination in relation to a Personal Grievance arising from new conditions of employment so what weight does the Employment Relations Act have in controlling behaviour by employers bringing in policy in such a way that violates the Act?

Dependant on whether its a collective agreement or individual agreement and for clarification refer to case law & has to be assessed either in the Employment Relations Authority or further in the Court of Appeal. Case law judgements can be best accessed through Brookers.

Any existing employment agreement is held as statute for 12mths if a new agreement is put forward & not agreed to, under bargaining law E R Act parts 5 - 6 sections 31 - 69.
as for personal grievance, it has to be succinct & specific and correspond with E R Act sections 104/110/111 and then use sections 112-114

[GR81]

leaked documents + stupid management = you must work for the NZ government?

haha!

[James Deuce]

Aren't you IT chappies and chappesses, (!sp), in rather hot demand at the mo? I reckon you've got some bargaining power on your side, haven't you?:wait:

Nope, pay/skill relativity with the rest of the skilled job market is the worst it has ever been for IT. The sad fact is that no one values IT because it doesn't generate direct income for anyone except IT companies. The IT companies then use that as a basis for "market rates" when negotiating contracts. I just got my first pay rise in 7 years. Looking at the job market, I'd have to take on a lot more responsibility to move on or even stay the same.

Thankfully "Working for Families" just cam to the rescue.

On another note, I've stayed here because the people I work with (not, not for, lol) are really bloody good to work with. We get lots done and we have fun, and people support each other when we need it. The conditions and pay are secondary to the environment for me.

[Maha]

Lias, put ya hand up for a management roll, too many chiefs and not enough indians senario......one more aint gonna hurt, well maybe the other workers but you wont be one of them.. problem solved. I love it when a plan comes together......:blip:

[James Deuce]

There's some management here I'd like to roll.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

It's all about number crunching, and f' all about the human factor. One door closes - another opens - something happening like that can be a damned good incentive to find a better job!!

[froggyfrenchman]

I can sympathise...

In our work at the moment, the company wants to put us on a compolsary 50hr week, hours at their discresion (and were open 24hrs) On a flat rate. With no pay increcse.

On top of that, it was leaked to us this morning, that 8 people on the floor are getting the chop. So far they have only named 5 of them.

All a load of bull considering we have a 1/4 ratio of managment to workers.

Gonna be a sleepless night i guess

[KATWYN]

Blame the government and the constant financial pressure it puts on the company owners. Those decisions are forced because companies have no choice.

The increase in minimum wage
The new holiday act
The sick day act
Holiday pay going from 6 - 8% of annual gross earnings

At the same time increased costs to the company.
Freight
Supplies
Packaging
Services

It just goes on and on

And people question restructuring and how much it puts them out ? - talk to
Helen.

Katie
p.s An increase in management may have been made to increase productivity

[Swoop]

What a fabulous opportunity!!!

Renegotiation of contract. Due to the increase in inflation, interest rates and the price of petrol, it is time for a MASSIVE increase in wages!
The gubbinment has led by example on this one!!!!!!!!!

[Lou Girardin]

Blame the government and the constant financial pressure it puts on the company owners. Those decisions are forced because companies have no choice.



Yeah it's truly terrible when they can't maintain productivity by paying 3rd world wages.
How appalling that workers want a living wage.
Perhaps our hard done by employers would prefer the Aust experience, payroll taxes, medicare etc, etc.

[KATWYN]

What a fabulous opportunity!!!

Renegotiation of contract. Due to the increase in inflation, interest rates and the price of petrol, it is time for a MASSIVE increase in wages!
The gubbinment has led by example on this one!!!!!!!!!


Not a bad idea - then there will be no SME's (they all go under) so in
turn theres huge unemployment....and the government can then give everyone their wages for the week - and own every decision you make
from now on - from food, entertainment, travel to kids....

Sounds like a potential dictatorship in the making - if we all allow it

[KATWYN]

Yeah it's truly terrible when they can't maintain productivity by paying 3rd world wages.
How appalling that workers want a living wage.
.


How appalling that employers can't F***** GIVE a pay rise to employees
when employers WANT TO pay them what they are worth either

[kickingzebra]

convince 20 percent of your workmates to leave, then contract back at enormous rates when they prove themselves unable to handle the workload...
Yet another short term answer to a long term problem from the desk of KickingZebra ;)

[Lou Girardin]

How appalling that employers can't F***** GIVE a pay rise to employees
when employers WANT TO pay them what they are worth either

Mine can and does.
Well he and I disagree a little bit on the last part. But then 6 figures for my job is possibly a bit high, although the entertainment has to be worth something.

[chanceyy]

yeah talking of restructure we are going through this at present.. mainly affecting our night staff and those on fixed hours.

the devestation and morale was at floor level at our 3 sites within a very short space of time

management asked for our imput .. saying we have a say boy ohhh boy did their email get flooded. It was quite hopeful optimism after 4 days they acknowledged some of the feedback. Certainly made everyone feel like they were being heard.

This resulted in massive email submission, and one up for the workers, we have actually been heard, kept the night team (yipeeee) not working 3quarters of our roster on late finishes .. now 1 week in 4 .. etc

Due to come in effect around August so will not know full impacts .. and this will also affect the team leaders .. gone are working 8-5pm they will now be on the full time roster :D

[paturoa]

Dont forget that there is a pendulum here, sounds like the next swing will be in the managment structure direction.

This is a reality and isnt going to change.

If you want to change it then stop whinging and become a manager - no wait, isnt the pendulum is about to swing that way?

[WINJA]

Blame the government and the constant financial pressure it puts on the company owners. Those decisions are forced because companies have no choice.

The increase in minimum wage
The new holiday act
The sick day act
Holiday pay going from 6 - 8% of annual gross earnings

At the same time increased costs to the company.
Freight
Supplies
Packaging
Services

It just goes on and on

And people question restructuring and how much it puts them out ? - talk to
Helen.

Katie
p.s An increase in management may have been made to increase productivity
THAT ALL SOUNDS LIKE RUBBISH , ARE YOU IN HR OR SOMETHING

[WINJA]

i feel no sympathy to any employers any more after a vicious pay negotiation which got us fuck all, then 2 weeks later the boss spends $500,000 on a boat ,then some really good staff leave and he still doesnt learn.

im sick of hr people who drive flash cars and get good pay off the back of hard working employees , what the fuck do hr people do anyway? sack all those useless fucks for a start.

[paturoa]

i feel no sympathy to any employers any more after a vicious pay negotiation which got us fuck all, then 2 weeks later the boss spends $500,000 on a boat ,then some really good staff leave and he still doesnt learn.

im sick of hr people who drive flash cars and get good pay off the back of hard working employees , what the fuck do hr people do anyway? sack all those useless fucks for a start.

Stop whinging, it isn't going to change, sounds like u have some really good ideas.

So if u want a 500k boat go start a company. If you want a flash car or good pay, apply for a managers or an HR job.

[Ixion]

,,, what the fuck do hr people do anyway? ,,.

I've always wondered that. I mean, apart for giving the bosses advice when they want to sack someone, what do they actually DO. (Oh, and the payclerk role, I guess, but that never used to carry the poncy privileges that HR does)

[paturoa]

I've always wondered that. I mean, apart for giving the bosses advice when they want to sack someone, what do they actually DO. (Oh, and the payclerk role, I guess, but that never used to carry the poncy privileges that HR does)

They organise things so that the boss can have a 500k boat!

[KATWYN]

Mine can and does.
Well he and I disagree a little bit on the last part. But then 6 figures for my job is possibly a bit high, although the entertainment has to be worth something.

You are obviously not "a hard done by" employee

I dare you to print that off and show your boss Lou

- Why don't you dish some of your wages out and top up the difference for the low wage earning group and help them out? seeing you obviously have surplus and admit you are over paid - now that would be a philanthropist thing to do....after all, an employer will do it

[WINJA]

Stop whinging, it isn't going to change, sounds like u have some really good ideas.

So if u want a 500k boat go start a company. If you want a flash car or good pay, apply for a managers or an HR job.
I WASNT BORN WITH A SILVER SPOON IN MY MOUTH , I LEFT HOME AT 18 WITH NOTHING AND I HAVE 3 HOUSES SO IM DOING OK , BUT ILL NEVER BE RICH , BUT I DONT SEE WHY OTHERS SHOULD GET RICH BY SKIMPING ON MY PAY WITH MORE LEECHES ON A PAYROLL LIKE HR PEOPLE AND PA'S THERES ULTIMATELY LESS FOR A GRUNT LIKE ME ITS SIMPLE ECONOMICS, I WORKED FOR A COMPANY THAT HAD FIRED MOST OF THE OFFICE STAFF AND IT WAS AWESOME I ACTUALLY GOT PAID WELL AND DIDNT HAVE TO WORK AS HARD CAUSE EVERY BUM ON A SEAT IN AN OFFICE WAS COSTING THE BRANCH $60K+ A YEAR PREVIOUSLY, THEY HAD NO HR PEOPLE EVERY MANAGER IN EVERY CITY HAD TO PLACE THEIR OWN ADS AND INTERVIEW PEOPLE AND IT WORKS WELL , FUCK HR PEOPLE I HOPE THEY ALL GET BRAIN CANCER AND DIE

[inlinefour]

Nasty. They will do anything to achieve immediate results with no long-term thinking and unfortunately shit rolls downhill. Corporates create a crippling hierarchical management structure thick with self-protecting middle management that 1) hide the truth from senior management and 2) fuck over the little guys at the drop of a hat.


You work for the local public hospital system?

[XTC]

I WASNT BORN WITH A SILVER SPOON IN MY MOUTH , I LEFT HOME AT 18 WITH NOTHING AND I HAVE 3 HOUSES SO IM DOING OK , BUT ILL NEVER BE RICH , BUT I DONT SEE WHY OTHERS SHOULD GET RICH BY SKIMPING ON MY PAY WITH MORE LEECHES ON A PAYROLL LIKE HR PEOPLE AND PA'S THERES ULTIMATELY LESS FOR A GRUNT LIKE ME ITS SIMPLE ECONOMICS, I WORKED FOR A COMPANY THAT HAD FIRED MOST OF THE OFFICE STAFF AND IT WAS AWESOME I ACTUALLY GOT PAID WELL AND DIDNT HAVE TO WORK AS HARD CAUSE EVERY BUM ON A SEAT IN AN OFFICE WAS COSTING THE BRANCH $60K+ A YEAR PREVIOUSLY, THEY HAD NO HR PEOPLE EVERY MANAGER IN EVERY CITY HAD TO PLACE THEIR OWN ADS AND INTERVIEW PEOPLE AND IT WORKS WELL , FUCK HR PEOPLE I HOPE THEY ALL GET BRAIN CANCER AND DIE
hear hear!! Christ i'm agreeing with winja again :o

[KATWYN]

Has anyone ever thought that maybe the employer had to mortgage himself to the hilt to buy a $500,000 launch to entertain clients - to gain contracts
to keep the likes of YOU employed

Cos unfortunately THATS how it works

No - its just a toy. it doesnt serve a purpose does it

[KATWYN]

THAT ALL SOUNDS LIKE RUBBISH , ARE YOU IN HR OR SOMETHING

...and you obviously aren't

[Ixion]

Has anyone ever thought that maybe the employer had to mortgage himself to the hilt to buy a $500,000 launch to entertain clients - to gain contracts
to keep the likes of YOU employed

Cos unfortunately THATS how it works

,,

Poor chap. Obviously gross exploitation. Wrings out the cockles of m'heart it does to see a fellow creature suffering like that. 'Tis a terrible thought I know, but knowing as I do the depravity of this world, I - no, it's too horrible a thought - you , (oh spare the poor fellow), you don't think that "entertaining" might mean that he is forced to endure unlimited expense account booze as well, do you? Tell y'what , tell him to join the union and we'll arrange for the workers to relieve him of those onerous and unfair burdens.

[paturoa]

... BUT I DONT SEE WHY OTHERS SHOULD GET RICH BY SKIMPING ON MY PAY .....

I'm not saying its fair or just or anything like that, the world is what it is. Wot I'm saying is stop piss ranting into the wind. You aren't going to change anything that way.

The only way you can change this if u want to be a "grunt" is go and work for a company that doesn't do what you dont like.

[WINJA]

Has anyone ever thought that maybe the employer had to mortgage himself to the hilt to buy a $500,000 launch to entertain clients - to gain contracts
to keep the likes of YOU employed

Cos unfortunately THATS how it works

No - its just a toy. it doesnt serve a purpose does it
TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT , BUT NO IT WASNT FOR THAT PURPOSE .
3 PEOPLE QUIT IN 1 WEEK , 25% OF THE STAFF LEFT IN 1 MONTH AND WE ARE TRYING TO GET A PAY RISE OUT OF A THRIVING BUSINESS AND THE BOSS GOES SAILING FOR A FEW MONTHS YEAH THATS SENSIBLE

[paturoa]

Poor chap. Obviously gross exploitation. Wrings out the cockles of m'heart it does to see a fellow creature suffering like that. 'Tis a terrible thought I know, but knowing as I do the depravity of this world, I - no, it's too horrible a thought - you , (oh spare the poor fellow), you don't think that "entertaining" might mean that he is forced to endure unlimited expense account booze as well, do you? Tell y'what , tell him to join the union and we'll arrange for the workers to relieve him of those onerous and unfair burdens.

lol - what sort of bike would they have to go with the boat?

[paturoa]

TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT , BUT NO IT WASNT FOR THAT PURPOSE .
3 PEOPLE QUIT IN 1 WEEK , 25% OF THE STAFF LEFT IN 1 MONTH AND WE ARE TRYING TO GET A PAY RISE OUT OF A THRIVING BUSINESS AND THE BOSS GOES SAILING FOR A FEW MONTHS YEAH THATS SENSIBLE

cool - that the bosses/owners choice and sounds like will go down the gurgler. Why dont you leave too.

Better still... use your houses as colllateral and buy it, don't get a boat and instead give the money to your "grunts".

[WINJA]

...and you obviously aren't
NAH I WORK FOR A LIVING IM NOT A FUCKEN LEACH LIKE AN HR FUCKWIT, HR TARDS ARE JUST ONE OF THOSE FUCKED UP THINGS WE COPIED OFF THE THE USA WITHOUT PUTTING ANY REAL THOUGHT INTO IT, HR PEOPLE ALWAYS TRY TO BURROW THEMSELVES INTO A COMPANY LIKE A DISGUSTING LITTLE TICK PROFESSING HOW IMPORTANT THEY ARE HAVING A WORD IN THE BOSSES EAR SO THE CAN ELIMINATE THE FOLKS THAT QUESTION THEIR POSITION , WHEN YOU BREAK DOWN A COMPANY INTO USEFULL ELEMENTS HR PEOPLE ARE NOT REALLY REQUIRED THEY ARE JUST FUCKEN BLOOD SUCKERS SCABING OFF THE HARD WORKING ELECTRICIANS,PLUMBERS,WELDERS,BUILDERS AND ENGINEERS IN THIS COUNTRY.

ARE YOU AND HR PERSON PER CHANCE?

[WINJA]

cool - that the bosses/owners choice and sounds like will go down the gurgler. Why dont you leave too.

Better still... use your houses as colllateral and buy it, don't get a boat and instead give the money to your "grunts".

I DID LEAVE AND ONE OF THE MINOR PARTNERS IN THE COMPANY CAME TO HAVE A CHAT WITH ME TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND WTF WAS HAPPENING AND WHY ARE ALL THE VANS EMPTY AND WHERE ARE ALL THE STAFF GOING , SO NOW THE CUNT IS HIRING UNQUALIFIED UNSKILLED LABOUR , AND UNQUALIFIED IN THAT GAME MEANS YOU VOID THE CUSTOMERS INSURANCE , ITS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME B4 THE DEATH SPIRAL HAPPENS .

"GREED" ITS A FUCKER

[paturoa]

I DID LEAVE AND ONE OF THE MINOR PARTNERS IN THE COMPANY CAME TO HAVE A CHAT WITH ME TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND WTF WAS HAPPENING AND WHY ARE ALL THE VANS EMPTY AND WHERE ARE ALL THE STAFF GOING , SO NOW THE CUNT IS HIRING UNQUALIFIED UNSKILLED LABOUR , AND UNQUALIFIED IN THAT GAME MEANS YOU VOID THE CUSTOMERS INSURANCE , ITS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME B4 THE DEATH SPIRAL HAPPENS .

"GREED" ITS A FUCKER

Yep vote with your feet! :bye:

Planet is full of them (greedies).

Surely there must be a good HR person out there somewhere???

[Big Dave]

Lias - Walk! (when you can)
Come join me in the carefree wold of freelancing. moneys not as good, but it's fweedom baby - yeah.

Winja - yep - the whole thing went down hill when they changed if from the 'Personnel Department' to 'Human Resources'. That was when I hung up my tie and never returned.

[KATWYN]

NAH I WORK FOR A LIVING IM NOT A FUCKEN LEACH LIKE AN HR FUCKWIT

HR PEOPLE ARE NOT REALLY REQUIRED THEY ARE JUST FUCKEN BLOOD SUCKERS SCABING OFF THE HARD WORKING ELECTRICIANS,PLUMBERS,WELDERS,BUILDERS AND ENGINEERS IN THIS COUNTRY.

ARE YOU AND HR PERSON PER CHANCE?


I reakon you have had a run in with an HR person....i'm sensing a tad bit of animosity.......:eek:

And no i'm not HR

Engineers are hard working.

In fact, in the early days of our business, my husband (engineer) worked a 55 hour day to get a job out (that we weren't paid for, for 6 months- by the way)
after that stint his feet were so red, swollen,cracked and sore he could hardly walk for days, it made me feel so sad and question whether its all worth it.

These are one of many things that happened to establish a business that no one will ever know about.

[Ixion]

,,Surely there must be a good HR person out there somewhere???

Some of them are OK as people. It's just that the whole HR thing just seems one big wankathon. What do they actually DO all day. I've never seen any of them actually produce anything .

[paturoa]

Some of them are OK as people. It's just that the whole HR thing just seems one big wankathon. What do they actually DO all day. I've never seen any of them actually produce anything .


Winja knows one that produced a 500k boat!

[Finn]

Blame the government and the constant financial pressure it puts on the company owners. Those decisions are forced because companies have no choice.

The increase in minimum wage
The new holiday act
The sick day act
Holiday pay going from 6 - 8% of annual gross earnings

At the same time increased costs to the company.
Freight
Supplies
Packaging
Services

It just goes on and on

And people question restructuring and how much it puts them out ? - talk to
Helen.

Katie
p.s An increase in management may have been made to increase productivity

This is most certainly true. NZ is not an attractive country to operate a business especially with a government that is run by academics that do not have a clue about stimulating growth.

However, corporates are their own worst enemy. Crippled by bureaucracy and incompetence. We are very thin on skilled management because of sub standard education and skilled people getting pissed off with the place and moving off shore.

Apart from the beautiful scenery and a relaxed lifestyle, there's not much else going for NZ.

[paturoa]

Apart from the beautiful scenery and a relaxed lifestyle, there's not much else going for NZ.

You forgot to mention broad minded people like u, me and winja!

[Finn]

You work for the local public hospital system?

No, I dropped out of school. Even at that age I realised the NZ education system would get me nowhere.

[Big Dave]

What do they actually DO all day. I've never seen any of them actually produce anything .


Manage all the law suits and grievances from the former employees they sacked. When they have done that they set about creating some more - all in the name of efficiency and productivity.

[Big Dave]

No, I dropped out of school. Even at that age I realised the NZ education system would get me nowhere.

And riding that dirty wog job is somewhere?

speeeeking of which - what about tomorrow AM?

[kickingzebra]

Our Institutional academics would have you believe that some of New Zealands universities are second tier on the world scale (only behind the Yales, and Princetons etc)

They are sooo wrong. The funding going on in those universities dwarfs our Government spending.

So as long as our Universities continue to churn out untrained regurgitators of outdated curricula, The situation will continue.

But can a university actually produce a good manager? Seems unlikely.

[Finn]

And riding that dirty wog job is somewhere?

speeeeking of which - what about tomorrow AM?

Should be okay. I'll call you in the AM.

[WINJA]

I reakon you have had a run in with an HR person....i'm sensing a tad bit of animosity.......:eek:

And no i'm not HR

Well, our other business is a specialized engineering business - and yes engineers are hard working.

In fact, in the early days of our business, my husband worked a 55 hour day to get a job out (that we weren't paid for, for 6 months- by the way)
after that stint his feet were so red, swollen,cracked and sore he could hardly walk for days, it made me feel so sad and question whether its all worth it.

These are one of many things that happened to establish a business that no one will ever know about.

FUCK YEAH IVE HAD A LOT OF ARGUEMENTS WITH HR PEOPLE , IVE ASKED SOME HR BITCH HOW SHE WAS QUALIFIED TO ASK ME QUESTIONS CAUSE AN ENGINEER NEEDS TO BE INTERVIEWED BY AN ENGINEER FOR MY FIELD , SHE WAS ASKING THE DAFTEST QUESTIONS I FELT LIKE SPITTING IN HER FACE , I TOLD HER TO STICK HER JOB UP HER TWAT, MY BEST JOBS IVE EVER HAD WERE THE ONES WHERE I SHOOK HANDS WITH THE GM AND DIDNT SIGN A CONTRACT , FUCKEN HR PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS ASKING QUESTIONS LIKE HOW CAN YOU IMPROVE YOURSELF WHAT ARE YOUR 3 STRONGEST AND WEEKEST POINTS FUCK THAT FUCKEN HR PIECES OF SHIT NEVER WORKED A DAY IN THEIR LIFE WASTING MY TIME WITH STUPID QUESTIONS, ILL ANSWER THEIR QUESTIONS ONLY IF I CANT GET A JOB ELSEWHERE AND I CANT FEED MY FAMILY TILL THAT DAY THEY CAN GO FUCK THEMSELVES .

AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON WHY AN HR PERSON THEN HIRES A CONSULTANT TO FIND EMPLOYEES

[Big Dave]

Should be okay. I'll call you in the AM.

Cool - Forecast is for a wet arvo.

[KATWYN]

FUCK YEAH IVE HAD A LOT OF ARGUEMENTS WITH HR PEOPLE , IVE ASKED SOME HR BITCH HOW SHE WAS QUALIFIED TO ASK ME QUESTIONS CAUSE AN ENGINEER NEEDS TO BE INTERVIEWED BY AN ENGINEER FOR MY FIELD , SHE WAS ASKING THE DAFTEST QUESTIONS I FELT LIKE SPITTING IN HER FACE , I TOLD HER TO STICK HER JOB UP HER TWAT, MY BEST JOBS IVE EVER HAD WERE THE ONES WHERE I SHOOK HANDS WITH THE GM AND DIDNT SIGN A CONTRACT , FUCKEN HR PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS ASKING QUESTIONS LIKE HOW CAN YOU IMPROVE YOURSELF WHAT ARE YOUR 3 STRONGEST AND WEEKEST POINTS FUCK THAT FUCKEN HR PIECES OF SHIT NEVER WORKED A DAY IN THEIR LIFE WASTING MY TIME WITH STUPID QUESTIONS, ILL ANSWER THEIR QUESTIONS ONLY IF I CANT GET A JOB ELSEWHERE AND I CANT FEED MY FAMILY TILL THAT DAY THEY CAN GO FUCK THEMSELVES .

AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON WHY AN HR PERSON THEN HIRES A CONSULTANT TO FIND EMPLOYEES

:laugh: I thort so.

Actually, your experiences sound like you were patronized. Its understandable
you are annoyed at HR

[kickingzebra]

Might have been because you didn't give the right sex...

[WINJA]

Hi
I was once in a technical role in a technical company where the pay rates
were set by non technical HR people and I sure felt I was loosing big time
so I went and did some entry level hr qualifications with a view to becoming
one of them. While I did pass I had no luck internally or externally applying
for jobs perhaps because I was the wrong sex.
MAYBE YOU JUST NEEDED A RATSHIT AMERICAN HAIRDO THICK RIMMED RED FRAME GLASSES AND BRIGHT RED MAKEUP , THEY ALL HAVE THAT LOOK DONT THEY, FUCK I HATE THEM

[James Deuce]

Not to mention Psychometric testing, Panel Interviews, Multiple interviews with never any feedback or even a note to say thanks for spending your time with us, HR Arseholes who agree to be a referee and then give you an iffy reference (excellent HR management material, that particular arsehole). The whole Recruiting Industry seems to be where HR arseholes wash up when the Corporate tide goes out.

I'm the only FTE for a customer with 80 servers and a whole hash of customised, "cheap", solutions. I have to chose which disaster to avert each day, and one day I chose really wrong, so the senior management threw more, you guessed it, management bodies into the environment to fix it. I now answer to 4 people. I'd love a ratio of 3.4 people to each manager. I have 4 managers to one worker.

[Jantar]

Hi
I was once in a technical role in a technical company where the pay rates
were set by non technical HR people ...

That is normal. HR people seem to have the idea that if you need someone with technical skills you just go and hire them. Technical, engineering, mathmatical and scientific skills are taught at university, and people with any or all of these skills are thick on the ground (Tui Ad inserted here).

What HR don't realise is that once you find someone with the right knowledge they still have to be trained in industry specific roles procedures and applications. Rather than people with the right skills being thick on the ground, there is a world wide shortage and pay rates need to reflect what is paid on a global scale.

We had a resignation in our team in September last year. By the time we got HR approval to advertise and appoint a replacement it was March this year before a replacement actually started, and it will be at least another 2 - 3 months before he is fully competent to be working solo.

We had another resignation yesterday, so we'll be advertising for another replacement shortly. Meanwhile it means we'll be operating with a skeleton staff for another year. At least we have finally convinced HR that skilled people deserve a decent salary. Anyone here looking for a new job?

[Ixion]

Those stupid pyschometric tests, I've done so many of them over the years , they all come up with the same result and say I ought to be a salesman. And anyone who knows me will tell y' that I'm the very last person in the world to be a salesman, cos I'm no good at bullshitting people, and I'd tell them all the things that were wrong with the product and why it wasn't suitable for them.

I reckon they're a total load of crap.

[Jantar]

Those stupid pyschometric tests, I've done so many of them over the years , they all come up with the same result and say I ought to be a salesman. And anyone who knows me will tell y' that I'm the very last person in the world to be a salesman, cos I'm no good at bullshitting people, and I'd tell them all the things that were wrong with the product and why it wasn't suitable for them.

I reckon they're a total load of crap.

I've done quite a few as well. My results have all suggested either an Astro-physicist or a naval cartographer. Rather limited job opportunities in NZ for either of those fields. When I've enquired what attribute are required for such jobs as Power System Controller or Hydro Group controller I get told that there are no such vocations in their database. Strange when you consider that there 10 times as many Power System Controllers in NZ as there are Naval Cartograhpers. :blah:

[Ixion]

I was going to say it was because they are all yank based, then I remembered the Tennassee (sp?) Valley Authority.

[scumdog]

Meh, due to the protocol for job advertising we've been 1 to 2 people down since Christmas - and that's in a six man team....
Also HR may not like my answers in the last poll we had - may have to see Sniper or WINJA for a job.....

[James Deuce]

Those stupid pyschometric tests.....

I reckon they're a total load of crap.

That would have done it you know. ;)

I always end up as an Art Designer or Flower Arranger.

Thing is, the older I get, the more attractive those options look. They're the sort of careers that tolerate weirdos.

[Big Dave]

That would have done it you know. ;)

I always end up as an Art Designer or Flower Arranger.

Thing is, the older I get, the more attractive those options look. They're the sort of careers that tolerate weirdos.


Watch it.
And it's Art Director.

[Big Dave]

Those stupid pyschometric tests, I've done so many of them over the years , they all come up with the same result and say I ought to be a salesman. And anyone who knows me will tell y' that I'm the very last person in the world to be a salesman, cos I'm no good at bullshitting people, and I'd tell them all the things that were wrong with the product and why it wasn't suitable for them.

I reckon they're a total load of crap.


Firstly you are operating under a complete misconception if you think a good salesman is ANYTHING but honest.
This is 2006 and there is consumer recourse for starters.
If you are not up front selling anything - you won't be successful.

Successful sales people actually like providing a service, believe in their product as a solution to their customers needs and are actually helping them. We don't need ANY bullshit if doing the job right.
It's about persistence, personality, training, product knowledge and the numbers game.

Secondly - we are ALL salesmen. Just a question of degrees.

[Lou Girardin]

You are obviously not "a hard done by" employee

I dare you to print that off and show your boss Lou

- Why don't you dish some of your wages out and top up the difference for the low wage earning group and help them out? seeing you obviously have surplus and admit you are over paid - now that would be a philanthropist thing to do....after all, an employer will do it

You've read it wrong, I don't get that much. That's what I think I'm worth - don't you?
BTW he has access to this site.

[Lou Girardin]

Has anyone ever thought that maybe the employer had to mortgage himself to the hilt to buy a $500,000 launch to entertain clients - to gain contracts
to keep the likes of YOU employed

Cos unfortunately THATS how it works

No - its just a toy. it doesnt serve a purpose does it

More likely, he has the odd bash on his toy so as to get the tax write off.

[Lou Girardin]

Firstly you are operating under a complete misconception if you think a good salesman is ANYTHING but honest.
This is 2006 and there is consumer recourse for starters.
If you are not up front selling anything - you won't be successful.

Successful sales people actually like providing a service, believe in their product as a solution to their customers needs and are actually helping them. We don't need ANY bullshit if doing the job right.
It's about persistence, personality, training, product knowledge and the numbers game.

Secondly - we are ALL salesmen. Just a question of degrees.

Having been involved in one of the worst of the sales professions - real estate, I know this couldn't be farther from the truth.
Outright lying may not be common, but omission is alive and well.

[Karma]

Those stupid pyschometric tests, I've done so many of them over the years , they all come up with the same result and say I ought to be a salesman. And anyone who knows me will tell y' that I'm the very last person in the world to be a salesman, cos I'm no good at bullshitting people, and I'd tell them all the things that were wrong with the product and why it wasn't suitable for them.

I reckon they're a total load of crap.

Oh yeh.. love those things...

I seem to get different results every time... doesn't help that I just randomly mark the boxes... I think one time I got classed as a suicidal maniac, which is as close to the truth as they've ever got. :first:

[oldrider]

New Zealand is supposedly renown internationally for it's lack of credible industrial/commercial managers.
Having read this thread from end to end it appears that the availability of "suitable applicants from the field" is probably a contributing factor.
Having read this thread ask yourself this question.

Knowing all that you now know about the applicant, (select any poster) would you still employ them?

Then make up your mind whether they would add value to your enterprise.
Remember you can't just simply get rid of them if they disappoint you.
You have probably mortgaged your "whole life" to get this business off the ground and running.
They have as yet contributed "nothing" and if you keep them that's what you will end up with too. :sick:
Wake up people some of you make yourselves sound like proper Pratt's! :nono: John.

[Big Dave]

Having been involved in one of the worst of the sales professions - real estate, I know this couldn't be farther from the truth.
Outright lying may not be common, but omission is alive and well.


I said 'doing the job properly'.
And that means doing it for a long time too.
Blatant non-disclosure is a formula for failure in the medium term and that's partly why so many of them go bust.

The ethics of retail stock control and shifting inventory I can justify too.
But that's $115 per hour and part of the qualifying the customer training - available on site.

[James Deuce]

Errrr, not following you Oldrider.

The thread is about Corporate entities reversing the ratio of Chiefs to Indians, in favour of the Chiefs, while fewer workers still have the same amount of work to do, usually in the face of diminishing returns, both economically and in respect to "intangible" benefits in the work environment.

I agree that our management appears to lack the skills or integrity to manage well, but don't understand your point at all. Are you implying that we should just shut up and do as we are told be people who have no idea how to take no for an answer?

[James Deuce]

I said 'doing the job properly'.

I've met ONE solitary Real Estate agent who could do that, and we bought our house off him. The rest were incapable of listening, and actively discouraged us from negotiating with the vendor. They weren't selling houses, they were maximising their commission.

[Paul in NZ]

Last test I took reckoned I was seriously disturbed by recent trauma, borderline psychotic, unstable, manically egotistical, a likely preditor, potentially dangerous and apparently the office hampster and 3 goldfish were missing from reception and the receptionist had to undergo an exorcisim....

Christ was I surprised to be appopinted CEO....

[oldrider]

Errrr, not following you Oldrider.

don't understand your point at all. Are you implying that we should just shut up and do as we are told be people who have no idea how to take no for an answer?

No I am not, quite the opposite.

The self advertising of many of the posters on this thread would imply to me that they are unemployable.

Well, if I was the one making the choice of employing them anyway.

By their own statements, they clearly would add no value to the relationship or the enterprise.

The thread constantly slams managers and HR but my point is that employees should look just a critically at "themselves".

[Finn]

Sounds like some people have really miserable jobs. I just joined in on a game of bruise soccer with our IT guys. I picked on a lil geeky fulla that just joined us and kicked a ball right in his face. An english git got me in the nuts. He's now on call this weekend. The lil fulla kicked like a girl but managed to crack a window. The team carried him to the roof and locked him outside in the rain.

Good team building stuff.

[Jantar]

....The thread constantly slams managers and HR but my point is that employees should look just as critically at "themselves".

John, You and I have both been through a number of re-structuring type phases, including the massive one of Public Service to SOE, and even (in my case) to Publicly listed company. We have learnt how to look ahead and envisage where the company is heading and so adapt our own thinking to add value to the company's future. In effect we have stepped around HR as far as job security is concerned.

For many of the younger ones facing their first re-structure this is a daunting prospect, and their prime concern is "will I still have a job next week?". HR do not do themselves any favours in these circumstances as they are seen to be be the bad guys. Unfortunately, as you are already aware, very few HR managers have any technical knowledge, and simply look at employees as a resource which can be hired or adapted as the need arises. Some HR managers see their employees as an investment, and these ones are usually respected by employees in return.

Yes, employees should always look critically at themselves and assess their own performance in respect of how much value they are providing. At the same time HR should be open and honest, and let employees know what is expected now, and in the future. It is when future developements are kept too secret that employees feel that they are being treated like mushrooms (ie kept in the dark and fed on BS).

[James Deuce]

No I am not, quite the opposite.

The self advertising of many of the posters on this thread would imply to me that they are unemployable.

Well, if I was the one making the choice of employing them anyway.

By their own statements, they clearly would add no value to the relationship or the enterprise.

The thread constantly slams managers and HR but my point is that employees should look just a critically at "themselves".

Ahh right, so I'm unemployable because I'm getting a bit annoyed about never having any time in the evening or weekend, because I have to work because as each person resigns the workload goes up along with an increasing number of managers. I have no issue with adapting change. I 've been "restructured" an average of twice a year for 23 years, so I'm quite capable of planning my way through these things and making sure that I put myself in a position where I'm not a liability to myself or my employer.

It does get beyond the pale when you have 4 managers to answer to.

[Ixion]

Sounds like some people have really miserable jobs. I just joined in on a game of bruise soccer with our IT guys. I picked on a lil geeky fulla that just joined us and kicked a ball right in his face. An english git got me in the nuts. He's now on call this weekend. The lil fulla kicked like a girl but managed to crack a window. The team carried him to the roof and locked him outside in the rain.

Good team building stuff.

Does your building have lifts in it? Do you use them? Might be best not to in future, hm. Putting a geek on a roof is a bad idea generally.

[Lou Girardin]

I've met ONE solitary Real Estate agent who could do that, and we bought our house off him. The rest were incapable of listening, and actively discouraged us from negotiating with the vendor. They weren't selling houses, they were maximising their commission.

But, but, but, they're working for the vendor aren't they?:killingme :killingme
They should change their names to vendor.

But the funniest thing is how the agents (owners) got all the salespeople to "invest in their profile", meaning pay for fancy signs, extra adverts etc. While he cuts his costs right back.
The sharks bitten by a bigger shark.

[Ixion]

Last test I took reckoned I was seriously disturbed by recent trauma, borderline psychotic, unstable, manically egotistical, a likely preditor, potentially dangerous and apparently the office hampster and 3 goldfish were missing from reception and the receptionist had to undergo an exorcisim....

Christ was I surprised to be appopinted CEO....

Got you on one of your good days, eh? y'gotta do something about those delusions of grandeur though. I mean, thinking you're Rossi is fine, no different to half the folks here. But CEO's , you're in dangerous territory there, before you know it you could have Teresa Gatting trying to get into your pants!

[Finn]

Does your building have lifts in it? Do you use them? Might be best not to in future, hm. Putting a geek on a roof is a bad idea generally.

Shit he's still up there. Better tell the boys to get him down. Thanks for the reminder.

[Paul in NZ]

Got you on one of your good days, eh? y'gotta do something about those delusions of grandeur though. I mean, thinking you're Rossi is fine, no different to half the folks here. But CEO's , you're in dangerous territory there, before you know it you could have Teresa Gatting trying to get into your pants!

shudder.....

[Lou Girardin]

Managers are subject to karma though.
Enron's Kenneth Lay and Jeff Skilling have just been convicted on various fraud, insider trading charges.
Lay faces up to 45 years jail, Skilling 145 years.
One day you're cock of the walk, the next you're a feather duster. (Tina Turner - Mad Max)

[oldrider]

Ahh right, so I'm unemployable because I'm getting a bit annoyed about never having any time in the evening or weekend, because I have to work because as each person resigns the workload goes up along with an increasing number of managers. I have no issue with adapting change. I 've been "restructured" an average of twice a year for 23 years, so I'm quite capable of planning my way through these things and making sure that I put myself in a position where I'm not a liability to myself or my employer.

It does get beyond the pale when you have 4 managers to answer to.
I did not refer to you personally and I am tempted to say "if the cap fits wear it" but I don't think that would be appropriate.
Restructuring can be a very disruptive and painful experience and is generally only so because of the bad management practices employed previously by the company facing the restructuring.
Knowledge is power and some managers pretend to have "knowledge" in order that they can continue to pretend to have "power" they are generally what the restructuring is all about.
The last part of your quote above spells out quite clearly what you believe your personal position is.
You are confident in the value of the service that you provide to the company, so why would you think I was referring to you?
Reporting to 4 managers tells me that the restructuring is valid!
Human Resource should not be Managing the restructuring, they simply should provide a supporting role to the managers carrying out the restructuring exercises themselves and those line managers should be working it out "with" their direct reports, they are the ones who know the business best.
The line managers should share the "knowledge" about the restructuring with their direct reports so that everyone can be involved in making "informed" decisions, both personal and business related.
The only thing to fear is fear it's self, uninformed workers react to the fear and the whole exercise becomes a chaotic shambles.
Confident, high performing managers know how to handle these situations and are not afraid of knowledgeable, intelligent staff, they treasure them.
Getting a bit rambley here but restructuring is something that I too am familiar with both making it happen and having it happen to me. John.

[kickingzebra]

I wonder how many people went Hoorah when Finn got nutkicked?

Why ya limping???

Tell people it was a highchair gone wrong.
On the brutale, they'd never bellieve it if you said on the Honda...

[geoffm]

Right up there with "of course we will still love you in the morning - and here is a pink slip" is "promotion from within".
My current job pushed that line - now pretty flat structure makes promotion difficult, but not impossible. Office boss kinda retiring, Senior guy lined up to take over - knows how the plance works, popular, customer foccussed, techie, etc. The NZ management was overruled and the Ozzie bosses say "no - we will look for someone from outside."
Net result, in 1 single decision
- guy is going, so we are now even shorter staffed - we were down 1 before anyway and unable to find a replacement, - message to everyone is "don't bother, we will screw you anyway". Now have no senior group leader and nothing coming.
- Even better, he is starting in competition, and having dealt with our key customers for years and brought a lot of them to our company, is now in opposition, and his first move will be to poach our clients, and this is made easier by not having anyone to replace him.

Good one guys. You couldn't have handled it worse if you tried.
The general opinion is the Ozzie connection could disappear and the NZ office would be no worse off - probalby better as all they do is add dead weight. They run NZ as a branch office of Australia, except I think the Ozzies have more leeway. We can't even change the official templates to take out references to ozzie regulations, ABN numbers, ozzie company names, etc. All that happens is people work around the system - so much for consistancy and quality...
G

[scumdog]

- guy is going, so we are now even shorter staffed - we were down 1 before anyway and unable to find a replacement, - message to everyone is "don't bother, we will screw you anyway". Now have no senior group leader and nothing coming.



You don't work for NZPolice do you??:shutup:

[WINJA]

No I am not, quite the opposite.

The self advertising of many of the posters on this thread would imply to me that they are unemployable.

Well, if I was the one making the choice of employing them anyway.

By their own statements, they clearly would add no value to the relationship or the enterprise.

The thread constantly slams managers and HR but my point is that employees should look just a critically at "themselves".
YEAH IM UNEMPLOYABLE TO A LOT OF EMPLOYERS , IVE READ SOME CONTRACTS AND THERE SHOCKING AND IVE TOLD THEM TO GET FUCKED , IN ONE CONTRACT I READ IT SAID THE COMPANY HAS THE RIGHT WITH NO NOTICE TO SEND YOU HOME WITHOUT PAY FOR UP TO 2 WEEKS AT A TIME , THATS OUTRAGEOUS FOR A PERSON ON WAGES WHAT DO YOU TELL YOUR BANK MANAGER WHEN YOUR SHORT FOR THE WEEK HOW DO YOU FEED THE FAMILY AND IT WAS LUCKY I FOUND IT CAUSE IT WAS TUCKED AWAY SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 45 PAGE CONTRACT , AND IN ANOTHER CONTRACT IT SAID EVEN THO THE COMPANY VEHICLES ARE INSURED IF YOU HIT A STATIONARY OBJECT IT COMES OUT OF YOUR OWN POCKET WHEN YOU WORK IN CONSTRUCTION THERES ALWAYS MISHAPS LIKE THAT .
THERES FAR MORE ROTTEN EMPLOYERS OUT THERE THAN EMPLOYEES , TO EMPLOYERS WE ARE JUST CATTLE USUALLY, I HATE THE WORDS LABOUR UNIT OR EMPLOYEE NUMBER BUT THESE ARE WORDS WE SEE MORE OFTEN .

BUT AS FOR UNEMPLOYABILITY JOHN IVE BEEN OFFERED $4000, A $45,000 CAR OF MY CHOICE , A LAPTOP AND ANY PHONE I WANT TO PUT MY NAME ON THE DOTTED LINE SO EVEN WITH MY CRAP ATTITUDE I STILL GET OFFERS AND THAT WAS FROM A GUY WHO I WORKED FOR IN THE PAST AND ARGUED WITH LOTS

[KATWYN]

THERES FAR MORE ROTTEN EMPLOYERS OUT THERE THAN EMPLOYEES

IVE BEEN OFFERED $4000, A $45,000 CAR OF MY CHOICE , A LAPTOP AND ANY PHONE I WANT TO PUT MY NAME ON THE DOTTED LINE SO EVEN WITH MY CRAP ATTITUDE I STILL GET OFFERS AND THAT WAS FROM A GUY WHO I WORKED FOR IN THE PAST AND ARGUED WITH LOTS

Really think about what you just said in the above quote Winja :laugh:

You fell into that one

[smokeyging]

I think this problem goes higher than management, and probably government, and possibly the round table. The working class here are classed as some of the world’s best and are sort-after throughout the world. Why would it be in the fifties when we had 2 million people, there were schools, hospitals, and homes everywhere, now, with 4 million, we can’t even get good health care? I smell a rat….or, am I just a dumb cunt.

[WINJA]

Really think about what you just said in the above quote Winja :laugh:

You fell into that one
HES AN EXAMPLE OF A GOOD EMPLOYER , DESPITE OUR DIFFERENCES WE HAVE RESPECT FOR EACHOTHER, JUST CAUSE WE DONT GET ON ALL THE TIME DONT MEAN WE CANT HAVE A SENSE OF FAIRNESS AND AN IDEA OF ONES VALUE , THINK ABOUT THAT

[Grahameeboy]

HES AN EXAMPLE OF A GOOD EMPLOYER , DESPITE OUR DIFFERENCES WE HAVE RESPECT FOR EACHOTHER, JUST CAUSE WE DONT GET ON ALL THE TIME DONT MEAN WE CANT HAVE A SENSE OF FAIRNESS AND AN IDEA OF ONES VALUE , THINK ABOUT THAT

Cannot argue with that WINJA.......often the nicest Employers don treat you with respect I guess?.....mind u my Boss is a goodun as you would imagine??

[KATWYN]

HES AN EXAMPLE OF A GOOD EMPLOYER , DESPITE OUR DIFFERENCES WE HAVE RESPECT FOR EACHOTHER, JUST CAUSE WE DONT GET ON ALL THE TIME DONT MEAN WE CANT HAVE A SENSE OF FAIRNESS AND AN IDEA OF ONES VALUE , THINK ABOUT THAT


..I was also referring to you admitting to being an employee with a crap attitude whilst raving on about bad employers.

Does the sound of "take the rafter out of your own eye before you try and
extract a splinter out of someones elses sound familiar ?

anyway I guess we could to and fro forever on the subject. There are darn good arguments on both sides.

[WINJA]

..I was also referring to you admitting to being an employee with a crap attitude whilst raving on about bad employers.

Does the sound of "take the rafter out of your own eye before you try and
extract a splinter out of someones elses sound familiar ?

anyway I guess we could to and fro forever on the subject. There are darn good arguments on both sides.
ANYONE WOULD HAVE A CRAP ATTITUDE AFTER BEING FED BULLSHIT , THE AMOUNT OF BULLSHIT MAY VARY BUT WE ALL HAVE A LIMIT, FOR ME IT STARTED WITH MY FIRST REAL JOB , I WAS THERE 4 YEARS AND SENSED THINGS WERENT RIGHT , I WAS YOUNG BUT I STILL HAD ENOUGH BALLS TO SEE THE GM AND SAY TO HIM ' HEY IS THIS COMPANY GONNA HAVE PROBLEMS ,SHOULD I FIND ANOTHER JOB?' THE CUNT LOOKED INTO MY EYES AND LIED FLAT OUT , I STAYED AND GOT MADE REDUNDANT A FEW WEEKS LATER , AT THE TIME I SAW HIM I HAD A JOB THAT I COULD HAVE GONE TO HE KNEW WEEKS B4 I SAW HIM THAT I WAS GONNA BE MADE REDUNDANT WITH 6 OTHER GUYS I SPENT MONTHS TRYING TO FIND A JOB , YEAH I GOT AN ATTITUDE I ALWAYS ASUME THAT AN EMPLOYER IS GONNA BE A LIENG CHEATING MOTHER FUCKER AND MY ASSUMPTION HAS BEEN RIGHT 90% OF THE TIME

[scumdog]

HES AN EXAMPLE OF A GOOD EMPLOYER , DESPITE OUR DIFFERENCES WE HAVE RESPECT FOR EACHOTHER, JUST CAUSE WE DONT GET ON ALL THE TIME DONT MEAN WE CANT HAVE A SENSE OF FAIRNESS AND AN IDEA OF ONES VALUE , THINK ABOUT THAT

Sort of a Pig & Public relationship wouldm't you say??

Only the public have no sense of fairness - just "you have to" & "you can't make me"

[WINJA]

Sort of a Pig & Public relationship wouldm't you say??

Only the public have no sense of fairness - just "you have to" & "you can't make me"
HITTING THE PORT TONIGHT SCUMMY

[Brian d marge]

I have had two good bosses in my working life ( which is at mid point :gob:) one was Thompson and westerink on Broughm st when I left
school , I worked in the Lube shop, The other was my ol man ( not because he was my father , because he told you what he wanted done , then buggered off , but when you were struggling he was next to you doing the same shitty job , he was the manager , Cool )

So after the last round of Bull from the last position ( no before anyone start, I dont take holidays or sick days and stay untill all is done, and all is I ask in return is to be treated fair and square. Period . Or I walk )

Anyway I walked , and started out onme own ,,,

No at 9.00 at nite I am having me Elevensies , I get no money , no holidays No sick days, I provide my own tea and coffee , Lunch is taken whenever , I pay for the electricity I use .....:zzzz:

but if I stick with it !!!!

No Management is a skill, sadly most are promoted from the shop floor with little or NO training and have little idea of how to be effective ....shame really


Stephen

[scumdog]

HITTING THE PORT TONIGHT SCUMMY

No, sober-as, just too obtuse for you I guess?