Easy riders out of control [Archive]

Two Smoker

17th May 2004, 13:37

It is starting to happen in NZ too though........ I have seen it at Cyclyspot and Holeshot, where 45-55 yr olds are getting onto VTR1000's.... i watched one guy on a VTR1000 hope on start it up, then select first gear without pulling in the clutch :pinch: Then i watched another guy on a VTR1000SP that could bearly fit over his gut to reach the handle bars and had extremely bad handling skills.......

There definately needs to be relicencing and further training courses and the like.... As for doing 290kmh in resedintial, thats just fucking stupid.......But getting knee down and pulling wheelies...... depends where it is......

duckman

17th May 2004, 13:38

I thought the media were supposed to be impartial ??? :Oi:

Jabez

17th May 2004, 13:40

Having just turn 40, I also don't fit into this group… But then I have been riding since I was 15, with the exception of a 4 yr period, so I guess I have enough experience to handle a sports bike!! :yes:

riffer

17th May 2004, 13:44

Actually you do have a point TS. I was a bit wary getting back on a bike last year when I got my fizzer. After all it had been 15 years and I was getting onto a 100hp bike. It took me a couple of weeks to get used to it and now I'm thinking its not so fast, maybe I need something with a bit more grunt.

I would hope that the bike shops can help riders who haven't been on them for a while. Shops like TSS have their club250 rides which would be a great way to be reintroduced to riding for those away from it for a while. It seems a bit dodgy that these shops are just selling hi-po sports bike to anyone with the cash, but then again, they're in business to sell bikes aren't they?

Trouble is, the kind of people that buy the bikes. Maybe its a mid-life crisis thing - I don't really know.

But asking for relicensing course for those getting back onto bikes for a while is possibly a good idea - then again I reckon we should have to sit our licenses every ten years (bike AND cage) to really be on top of our skills.

After all, my father still doesn't use indicators FFS. But they didn't have them on cars when he started driving. How many other cage dwellers are there around with that kind of mentality?

Let's get everyone taking refresher courses....

Slim

17th May 2004, 13:56

Trouble is, the kind of people that buy the bikes. Maybe its a mid-life crisis thing - I don't really know.
I think it's actually an available disposable income/kids have finally left home/doctor told me to take up a hobby to de-stress kind of thing.

I also agree with the article.

And you all noticed that it appeared in the World News section, right?

Hooks

17th May 2004, 14:16

Well I'm nearly in the age bracket but without the income !! I got back onto my EF after 13 years off and it felt like a whole new world. The bike was the same but the attitude was tempered with the fact that I have 4 kids to look after.....so I don't do anywhere near the same antics as I used to. I can still give it plenty when I feel the need but I am more aware of where I can and can't get away with it. There are plenty of good roads around that offer a fun ride without having to resort to excessive speed....well around the 130kph mark anyway !! I still get a buzz out of getting right over on a corner and getting the line right while still retaining enough to get out of trouble if a wayward cage enters the frame !!
I think that maybe a refresher test and an insurance company intiative similar to the one they took on performance cars might make the idiots think twice....if costs more because they are on a bike that they haven't had the correct training to ride then maybe they will either do the training or downsize their sights to something more manageable.

RiderInBlack

17th May 2004, 14:24

Read some of our Threads. This is happening here in NZ, and not just the "Old Buggers". Most of the rides I have been on has at least one hoon (sometimes that's me as I try to keep up with the other bikes). It does not seem to be age related, it just there are more riders riding in their 40+es now. It's no long a young man's hobby.
Most of the young riders I know ride harder than myself, so I don't think the increased Bike accidents can be blamed all on the older riders.

James Deuce

17th May 2004, 14:48

I thought the media were supposed to be impartial ??? :Oi:

On what planet?

Cajun

17th May 2004, 14:51

the average rider age has rather high, due to the fact jap car imports, the major section of people getting in to bikes are people over 40's getting back into it after 20 years off.

I mean there aren't really many people around the tauranga area my age that are in to motorbikes that i know off, tons 40+, alot in 30's but not a great deal in the 20's.

It just the laws pretty much make it hard for younger people to get bikes as well as price, you go see how much car you can get for the same price as a okay 4 cylinder 250cc motorbike. you can get alot of car for your buck.

But personally, i never liked cars, always loved bikes, i do 95% of traveling time on a bike, only the odd time i drive a car.

duckman

17th May 2004, 14:53

On what planet?
Sorry - that post should have been dripping in Sarcasm!! :sweatdrop

MikeL

17th May 2004, 15:19

An interesting article which raises some serious issues, but again we have a problem determining exactly what the extent of the problem is. The fact that the bike-riding demographic is now strongly skewed towards the older (40+) age group means that more older riders will inevitably kill or hurt themselves, but unless you have detailed statistics including length of riding experience, courses done, etc., how can you draw valid conclusions? My gut feeling is that there are probably quite a few older guys with fast bikes, slow reaction times and limited experience. But from my Ulysses rides I would also observe that the majority of older riders are slower and more careful than the average 20 or 30 year old. Whether they have more bins per kilometers ridden is impossible for me to say. My own record (1 per 50,000 km so far) is pretty meaningless as a statistic.
Common sense though would suggest that a compulsory retraining scheme sould be beneficial and I for one would not have considered it unreasonable if it had been required. Before I started riding again a couple of years ago, my previous experience had been with bikes from an era when anything over 250cc was considered a big bike.

vifferman

17th May 2004, 15:23

remember they are talking about british riders not NZ although it might b happening here to?

Yes, while the bulk of the article was lifted from some British publication, there was a sidebar from Auckland (?) Ulyssses club saying the same thing was happening here, which is why they were training "born again bikers" to ride more betterer.

It is starting to happen in NZ too though........ I have seen it at Cyclyspot and Holeshot, where 45-55 yr olds are getting onto VTR1000's....

:Oi: Guess what - I am 45. And no - I don't have a fat gut, and I have had my training wheels off for quite a long time. "I didn't get to where I am today without knowing how to ride a VTR1000..." Be careful with your generalisations, Dude!
Apart from a short break, I've been riding for 30 years, ride every day, do most of my own work on my bikes, and - like many other over 40 riders - don't fit the stereotype the media is trying to portray here for a bit of sensationalist "journalism". (I use the latter term in quotes, because as a professional writer I object to the sloppiness and lack off research such drivel betrays.) Yes, there are the 'weekend only racer types' who are in it for an adrenaline rush, just as there are those who want to buy into an image which is more exciting than their weekday persona. But there are also some (like me) who simply enjoy riding too much to give it away.

sAsLEX

17th May 2004, 17:34

kinda mirrors golf. You see the old guys who have played their whole life efforlessly swing and the ball goes straight and far. People new to the game are keen to impress and often stuff up!

Two Smoker

17th May 2004, 18:14

:Oi: Guess what - I am 45. And no - I don't have a fat gut, and I have had my training wheels off for quite a long time. "I didn't get to where I am today without knowing how to ride a VTR1000..." Be careful with your generalisations, Dude!
Apart from a short break, I've been riding for 30 years, ride every day, do most of my own work on my bikes, and - like many other over 40 riders - don't fit the stereotype the media is trying to portray here for a bit of sensationalist "journalism". (I use the latter term in quotes, because as a professional writer I object to the sloppiness and lack off research such drivel betrays.) Yes, there are the 'weekend only racer types' who are in it for an adrenaline rush, just as there are those who want to buy into an image which is more exciting than their weekday persona. But there are also some (like me) who simply enjoy riding too much to give it away.
Yes sorry that was a bit generalised..... i did talk about the riders i saw having crappy handling skills, and the ones im talking about is guys that have been off bike for 20-30 years (think about it compare the bikes from then with the performance of a late model 600 nowadays)

My dad has just got back on a bike (well last year, and hes 46) after a gap of 3 years (due to the previous bike getting written off due to a stupid idiot running a stop sign into the side of him), the bike he has bought is a CBR1100XX (which is by no means a slow bike) but he has 8 yeaars riding experience with the MOT and has alwways been on a bike except for the short break (like yourself) He is a very experienced rider and has alot of skills required to ride the CBR......

I believe that if you have been off a bike for 20-30 years, you need to slowly break back into bikes, not go straight out and buy a litre sized bike......

Skyryder

17th May 2004, 18:43

Well there's no doubt about me. I'm in the age group but not the mentality (I hope). I was out with Dangerous and K14 not so long ago and I couldn't even keep up with a 250. Mind you I didn't even try. Life is fast enough for me on a cruiser.

Skyryder

modalx

17th May 2004, 18:49

OK let's see...

Late 40s, grey hair, kids gone, a bit of disposable income, litre sports bike...
Anyone want an SP? I clearly should be locked up or medicated before I hurt someone. Crazy old coot. The only difference between me and the stereotype is that I've been riding more or less continuously for 25+ years.

What a laugh! If mid-life crisis means realising you're a long time dead then I've had one since I was 20. And the bike is the universal panacea - it doesn't matter what is bugging me, the bike fixes it.

Here are some numbers for NSW that put some perspective on the issue:

Only 10% of motorcycles are registered to owners under 26 years of age, but this age group account for 33% of the riders involved in reported crashes and represent 37% of riders in fatal crashes.

Older riders own 42% of registered motorcycles but are far less likely to be involved in crashes (22% of all motorcycle crashes). However the proportion of motorcycle crashes that involve older riders has increased from 14% in 1995 to 22% in 2000.

There is a heap more at http://www.roadsafety.mccofnsw.org.au/a/38.html

I think it's hilarious that some people might see me as a sad/mad bastard desperately searching for lost youth. The thing is you either have the biker gene or you don't - some people just don't get it.

SPman

17th May 2004, 19:02

I think it's hilarious that some people might see me as a sad/mad bastard desperately searching for lost youth. The thing is you are either have the biker gene or you don't - some people just don't get it.
Amen!

And F**k them anyway!

airplane

17th May 2004, 20:24

I had an early 'mid life' revelation; I had to have a bike before I got too old and too scared to do so! I had always dreamed of having a bike when I was younger but parents etc wouldn't agree.

So, rather than be a returnee to biking I bought a 250 when I was in the mid 40s and learned to ride. I went to courses, track days and took things easy before going up to a VFR 750. I have now moved up further to a 'thou.

I also ride rather cautiously as I relly don't like the idea of getting hurt - or the cost of fixing up the bike!!

I guess I am a little bit different again from the rather silly UK press stereotype of the return to biking, careless hoon!.

rodgerd

17th May 2004, 20:33

Hi All

Did anyone see this story in the NZ Herald on Saturday?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3566553&thesection=news&thesubsection=world

More Bike bashing...... :argh:

You know what ticks me off most about the article? It's based almost entirely around the agitation of a bunch of cruiser cowboys running an anti-sportsbike campaign, who mostly seem to be interested in getting sportsbikes hammered. Ant, for fucks sakes, they're anti-helmet, and anti-equipment.

So not *only* are they morons, they're morons gunning for other riders.

If we're going to target middle aged guys buying bikes they can't ride, can we first go after middle aged wankers in Commodore SSes and Ford Explorers? I know which poses a greater danger to me...

RiderInBlack

17th May 2004, 21:14

I had an early 'mid life' revelation; I had to have a bike before I got too old and too scared to do so! I had always dreamed of having a bike when I was younger but parents etc wouldn't agree.

So, rather than be a returnee to biking I bought a 250 when I was in the mid 40s and learned to ride. I went to courses, track days and took things easy before going up to a VFR 750. I have now moved up further to a 'thou.
Fu*k that is sooo simaliar:shit: Parents paranoid about bikes (born 1963). Learner M/C licience 1991. First bike the GSXR250 (1998), then the VFR750 (full Licience 2001, VFR 2002), now the CBR1000FL (2004). The VFR was my only form of transport 2002-4. Lots of touring, lots of rides, doing more track time now to hone my skills.

Aleph

17th May 2004, 21:52

I will admit I have not done any research but I would not be surprised if the article was pretty accurate. I rode bikes in the late 70's to early 80's, biggest being a 450 which was pretty much a main form of transport for a while. I was out of bikes for about 15 years and the reintroduction was a 900. The motor size was not really an issue as I have never been one to push the bike to the edge but the bike really gave me an opportunity to "achieve" what I could only dream of years ago. I am seeing the "mid-life" issues people are experiencing and, yes, there will be plenty of stupid purchasers out there. Bikes have always been higher risk, big engines are a temptation and you can get in a lot of trouble in less than 1 second.
Rather than argue about generalisations I think you do have a growing problem and the question is whether it should be a worry to responsible bikers. Those of us who do not speed or crash (and yes it is not always our fault as I have experienced) pay already for the actions of those who, for whatever reason, are "accident prone". If the numbers of accidents and cost of law enforcement rise then so will registrations, ACC levies and insurance premiums. The guys causing the problems will be able to afford to pay, the potential new riders will not and we will lose a generation of bikers.
Of course, who has the time to do something about it.

Jackrat

17th May 2004, 21:55

I'M 47 and I like old twins.Next week if I win Lotto I might go buy me a new Duke.To anybody that say's I need retraining,,Go fuck yourselfs!!!

James Deuce

17th May 2004, 22:03

Patrick Stewart is a self confessed hoon. Saw him on Top Gear a couple of weeks ago.

The article is an excellent example of how powerful a lobby group the cruiser segment is both media and government circles.

Lou Girardin

18th May 2004, 06:35

It's no wonder, look at their demographic. Middle-aged, wealthy, influential professions, a little lesson for those who think they can't change anything. We really need them on our side, but I still can't resist taking the piss.

brit_vtr

18th May 2004, 06:57

Motu

19th May 2004, 10:12

This one has been cropping up for a few years now,and I gotta say there is a lot of truth in it.As someone in the age group with no disposable income I'm shocked with how much money is out there,they are not buying just bikes but anything that takes their fancy.Flash new bike and the gear to go with it,build a new garage to put it in,dirt bike for the kid,trailer to tow it,better get a Terrano to haul it too.If I was in their position I'd do it myself - woe is me.

I spent 10 yrs on Waiheke Island,not a big place and I could ride all the roads before breakfast.I had 750s over there and rode bigger,got up to and over 160km a few times maybe,but generaly it was pretty relaxed riding.The XS1 was on the pegs most of the time but,and I remember one time my boss called me down to Matiatia wharf to bring something down in a hurry - so I slammed my helmet on and jumped on my Guzzi Stornello and headed out from Ostend....he looked at his watch as I walked in the office...''that was 4 minutes since I hung up'' So hey,I was having fun ok? Lots of gravel roads,I was riding off road all the time and racing bikes at the dirt track - no slacking off in paradise for me.

But coming back to Auckland I was seriously doubting my riding ability - frankly I was a fucking danger to myself and other road users...I could only ride for short periods,around town there was just too much to take in and it was scary stuff.On open roads I was out of depth too and I became quickly aware that the old girl just wasn't up with the play and needed a bike that handled and stopped a bit better.

I've told this story before - but it points out that even an experianced rider can be riding beyond their ability in seemingly ordinary conditions - the difference is I was able to see I was in trouble,take my time to build up confidence and abilities and then move onto a better bike for my purposes.It could of all gone wrong and I could be a statistic of an older rider coming to grief - cept I have never stopped riding.If I had of maybe I'd have a disposable income.

toads

19th May 2004, 16:39

Well me and Pete sort of fit the bill as far as the mid life thing goes, but I really think this article stereotypes our age group, quite honestly I am too paranoid of pain to risk going too fast or taking risks unnessecerily, I have only just got back into bikes after a 20 year break from it and same with Pete, I think he's a better rider than me and both of us drive vehicles a lot, I would have to say we are considerate and careful drivers/riders and will only get hoonish when we are confident LOL :blah:

Big Dog

19th May 2004, 17:13

Slim

23rd May 2004, 11:56

Check out this 2002 Herald Article: Big, Fast & Too Hot To Handle (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=1090687&thesection=news&thesubsection=general)

Big Dog

23rd May 2004, 14:13

Check out this 2002 Herald Article: Big, Fast & Too Hot To Handle (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=1090687&thesection=news&thesubsection=general)
Thanks for that Slim.
Once again the Herald has abused the statistics to meet their own end. Only 20% geez and at the moment they account for half the riding populatuion!

6% had consumed cannibis, shit in 2002 the only test they had only showed if it had been used in the last thirty days.

Then they really bend the truth over a table and say it may be more despite a complete lack of evidence to support that claim.

160 kmph? Shit these bikes they talk about will easily do 250kmph, does that mean that it is safer to travel above 200?

Once again BOYCOTT the Herald until they start telling the truth and stop being puppets of the transport minister. :shake:

RiderInBlack

23rd May 2004, 14:18

Yep, isn't it amazing how you can mis-use stats to make your point. For instants:
"Report authors John and Margaret Bailey said large and powerful motorcycles, usually Harley-Davidsons, were ridden in at least 18 per cent of the 304 fatal motorcycle accidents included in a study from 1994 to 1999."Herald.
Sorry but my maths is pretty good. That stat tells me that at nearly 82% of the fatal motorcycle accidents were not on "large and powerful motorcycles"(define powerful?), which would suggest that smaller, less powerful bikes were a much bigger problem between 94 and 99 (totally opposite to what they were trying to portray).

At least they were partly on track with this statement:
"Many fatal motorcycle crashes occurred at intersections, and it was possible other drivers had trouble gauging the speed of oncoming motorcyclists."Herald. (or looking out for them, RIB).

Of course this article is over 2 years old but I don't think ACC or the Herald would have changed their views since then.

rodgerd

24th May 2004, 07:28

Perhaps they should introduce a scheme whereby if you do not own a bike for a period of 10yrs you will need to show you know how to ride again before they reissue your 6 when you upgrade (like you have to every ten years now). This would be easy to measure by the fact that we already need to register our bikes to a licensed person.

Then it's a rule that shouldn't just be for motorcycles, it should be for all licenses. My dad has a full class 5 that he got when he was a teenager (he just asked for it - no actual testing). He's never driven an articulated truck/trailer combo, but in theory he could tomorrow.

I have also long been a proponent of having to at least redo the scratch test for real every time you get a reissue of your license.

The best thing about the scratch and win thing tey just started is that my pillion then knew how little she knew, was forced to re-read her road code, and stop mouthing off about how good she is.

Amen. It's frightening the degree to which people just foget everything they studied at 15 to get their license.

Big Dog

25th May 2004, 18:47

Then it's a rule that shouldn't just be for motorcycles, it should be for all licenses. My dad has a full class 5 that he got when he was a teenager (he just asked for it - no actual testing). He's never driven an articulated truck/trailer combo, but in theory he could tomorrow.

Amen. It's frightening the degree to which people just foget everything they studied at 15 to get their license.
The problem with making it all licenses is most commercial lic see you driving a vehicle that is not licensed to you. Perhaps all private licenses?

Timber020

25th May 2004, 21:00

I have quite a few mid lifer clients who ask me about my bike and mention wanting to get back into bikes after there last bike was a 500cc BSA or a Norton featherbed. One of them even had some brosures, he hadnt ridden for over 20 years, wanted a bike just to get into town on and maybe a little ride to the cafe on weekends and had brosures for GSXR1000, Busa 1300,R1 and a Fireblade. No doubt all good bikes but I tried to tell him that they were extremely potent bikes and perhaps he should look at a 600. He said he couldnt have anything smaller than a 750 as they just dont have the grunt. I pray the salesman he sees wont sell him a big capacity missile without getting him to test something smaller or at least try to steer him in a more life preserving direction.

Two Smoker

25th May 2004, 21:22

Powerful BMW's and Harly's LMAO :killingme: now thats a joke, although they do have some power i wouldn't call them powerful, next to litre jappers and super sports tourers.

And if you mate (who hasnt been on bike in ages) T020, ask him if he wants a race against my 150, see how much grunt he needs then..... That or ask him to take your RGV for a blat hehehe

These are the people i dont like, the ones that have been off bikes for donkey's years and then get onto a GSX-R1000, now as some of you have seen, i know how to push my 150 and my 150 has been equated by my uncle (non stop racer of nearly 50 years) as being as quick as the older 400's etc, and i can't see myself jumping onto anything above a 400 with out taking a fair while to learn and to be able to push it hard and ride it well.....

Definately needs to be a relicencing test, can you imagine going from a even a 1970's CB750 to a GSX-R750 nowadays?

Let alone a BSA 450 to a gixxer thou :crazy:

rodgerd

26th May 2004, 07:46

The problem with making it all licenses is most commercial lic see you driving a vehicle that is not licensed to you. Perhaps all private licenses?

Licenses are for individuals, not vehicles. If you mean it's hard to keep your experience up with biig rigs unless you work with one, well, yeah. But it someone hasn't worked with milk tankers in a decade, I don't want them suddenly cruising the roads in one.

rodgerd

26th May 2004, 07:53

I have quite a few mid lifer clients who ask me about my bike and mention ... No doubt all good bikes but I tried to tell him that they were extremely potent bikes and perhaps he should look at a 600. He said he couldnt have anything smaller than a 750 as they just dont have the grunt.

Unfortunately it's a common attitudes that's promoted by many experienced riders, and worst if they've been on the 'net and encountered "bigger is better" Americans (*rolls eyes*).

Need to keep some dyno graphs of a '60s BSA and a '90s 400 and point out which has more power...

Motu

26th May 2004, 09:02

To counter the too powerful arguments - the modern motorcycle makes much more power alright,but it's so usable,even a Vmax for all it's reputation is an easy bike to ride and a lot of old guys own them.Power delivery at lower speed is gentle,most bikes run CV carbs which slow response low down,often ign advance is retarded in lower gears - just a general dumbing down.

My old sohc CB750 was fun to ride - I used to like the 3rd gear wheel spin in the wet.When I had to take a late (at the time) dohc CB750 out in the wet on bald tyres I was a bit nervous - but after a bit of experimentation I found I couldn't wheel spin it! I had to find a bump in the road to get it spinning.It made a lot more HP than the sohc with more revs,but the lower end was tamed way down,a much easier bike to ride than my older model.

Motu

26th May 2004, 09:39

I drive a lot more cars than bikes these days and the trend is the same - I got out of a 730i BMW yesterday after booting it around the block in the wet...I couldn't believe it when I saw the V8 in there! V12 Beemers are totaly gutless,so too V8 Soarers,300ZX twin turbos.You can do a 180 around a roundabout in a V12 BMW with your foot planted on the floor,nothing happens until you are halfway up the road,if I'd tried that in the E48 Charger I also drove yesterday it'd be on it's roof! These things are made for high speed use and can really fly at silly speeds,but are dumbed down big time to make them docile around town.

The difference between the V8 BMW and E48 Charger in the wet was dramatic - I know which one was more fun! Which takes the more skill to drive? Same with bikes.

riffer

26th May 2004, 10:38

bungbung

26th May 2004, 13:57

...in the german cars the power delivery was more logarithmic rather than the linear delivery that the American and Australian cars had..

From my experience owning an Audi, and driving most everything for dial-a-driver (in a previous life), the german cars have much taller gearing for autobahn-ness, not much of a kick in the pants off the line, but floor it when you're doing 140 and there's a whole lot more action.

Motu

26th May 2004, 14:13

btw I'm dying to hear - whats an RT like to drive? Apart from the obvious wheelspins off the line? details please? :msn-wink:

Generaly I find that Euro cars are made to stop go and handle,but the big cruisers are lethargic,like a 3 series is fun to drive,a 7 or 8 is boring.

I have never liked the VJ Valiants and the Charger in particular,they don't fit my body type,I never feel at home in them.No power steer,long throw gear lever,heavy clutch (twin plate) and throttle (3 webers) you are working hard just moving out,nothing is smooth,it's hard to put all your actions in one harmonious flow - getting it wrong in the wet is easy.Even though the 6 cyl doesn't rev high they are very tall in the gearing and winding it out in 2nd is moving along in city streets.I know another guy with one that makes this E48 look tame - it puts out 450HP with a huge turbo on it,you can get into trouble just putting you foot down in top gear in the dry.Different than a lot of modern turbos,it's got some intriging touches - like a seperate exhaust system complete with muffler for the wastegate and a reserve oil system that pumps oil through the turbo when it stops.He built it to do Auck/Wellington in the 5hr bracket and has a huge tank in the back.It doesn't need a WoF and it hasn't been out for a few years,I'll remind him of that next time I see him.

Jackrat

26th May 2004, 16:42

Not that I have that much experience with german cars but it appears to me as though in the german cars the power delivery was more logarithmic rather than the linear delivery that the American and Australian cars had.

btw I'm dying to hear - whats an R/T like to drive? Apart from the obvious wheelspins off the line? details please? :msn-wink:

Iv'e had an RT,,bit of a long story but I loved it until I parked it in a ditch.
Iv'e had a few other Val's as well and they have all needed tuning to the suspension to make them handle.Compeared to anything around today they were very harsh to drive.The R/T had more power than the chasis could handle and were a ton of fun.

PS, actualy I had the chance to drive a nicely restored R/T when I was in OZ last.It was a pig.

pete376403

26th May 2004, 18:15

If this is R/T as in Charger, I drove my bosses E49 a few times. One nice thing about the Valiant front end is that is was very adjustable. Winding out the torsion bar stops a couple of turns lowered the front, and the caster and camber was fully adjustable as well via eccentrics on the top wishbone. I set this one to 1/2 degree neg camber and 1/4 degree positive caster, no toe in and it was running 225 BF Goodrich Radial T/A on the standard mags. They were big tyres for the era, standard Valiant was 185 or 195 x 14
The rear end was leaf spring and dampers, nothing flash there at all.
My recollection of this car was very very fast up to about 115 (MPH), lovely sounds, nothing at all startling in the way of brakes (power assist was an option) Handling was pretty good but it tramlined a bit over bumps.
He sold that car and got a 340 Dodge Challenger R/T 4 speed, I'd love to get one of those, too.

riffer

26th May 2004, 20:10

Thanks for that guys. I was interested as I had a VJ Regal with the 318, and always wanted the Charger but could never afford an R/T.

I got some anti-sway bars from the States for it (front and rear) - they were aftermarket ones designed for the Challenger R/T but worked nice on the val. Had Monroe GT gas shocks and the standard rims with Dunlop Aquajet 205's (budget restraints).

Tightened it right up, but having not much body roll but a lot of weight meant I eventually did the car equivalent of highsiding (fishtailed it trying to overtake an SLR5000 coming down the Kaitokes) and destroyed the bugger. Pushed the back end in to the back seat when we hit the bank going backwards at 120 ish but walked away.

Nice to hear the Charger R/T was a heavy pig of a car too. At least it was a manual. Mine was the auto with the column change.

Still a very cool car though... I'm envious.

Hitcher

26th May 2004, 21:10

*Sigh* Another car thread???

Motu

26th May 2004, 22:22

It was a thread about old farts thinking they were hot shit in the old days so should still be now - old farts reminise

Jackrat

26th May 2004, 22:33

My last Val was a CM Regal,It was an Auto six in what I always called Coconut Orange.
That was in Sydney and I liked to get out of it at the Tollgate Hotel in Paramatta wearing a Hawiain shirt an cowboy boots.
Had to be either a wog or a Kiwi aye. :laugh:

Jackrat

26th May 2004, 22:43

Back to the subject at hand,,sort of.
I am currently doing licence training and accesment for my class 5.
That will be $800 thank you.
Sheees no wonder people hang on to them for ever. :crybaby:

Big Dog

27th May 2004, 18:50

Licenses are for individuals, not vehicles. If you mean it's hard to keep your experience up with biig rigs unless you work with one, well, yeah. But it someone hasn't worked with milk tankers in a decade, I don't want them suddenly cruising the roads in one.
My bad. I meant registered. :headbang:

SPman

27th May 2004, 19:48

It was a thread about old farts thinking they were hot shit in the old days so should still be now - old farts reminise Did any Chargers make it out with the 340? Or was it canned totally in the big "killer car" scare that killed the Phase 4?

Jackrat

27th May 2004, 20:09

Did any Chargers make it out with the 340? Or was it canned totally in the big "killer car" scare that killed the Phase 4?

There is one in the Adilade Vehicule musem but I don't think they got into full production.?????
For any one interested in such things the place is well worth a vist,they have prototypes of all sorts of neat things from the big three.
Oh yeah they have a couple of hundred bikes to.