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wkid_one
18th May 2004, 19:51
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/images/02789304.jpg
The German firm’s Blackbird-beater is thought to make around 170bhp and is powered by an all-new four-cylinder 1157cc engine.

It has lapped the world-famous Nurburgring in 7.57 ( the lap record is 7.49) with two film cameras bolted on it. The rider reckoned he could have gone 15 seconds faster without the cameras…

The unusual ‘Hossak’ suspension is apparently electrically adjustable...

THE SUPERLIGHT FOR THE SUPER-RICH: THE K1200S (5/17/04)

by Midnight Moles in Munichhttp://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/images/K12Sred_4web.jpg (http://www.bmwra.org/images/K12Sred_4web.jpg)


Synopsis of current Info on the K1200S


Under the sexy title “BMW lifts the veil” (Schleier) BMW Motorrad has made official what OTL readers have already known for a good while. This summer BMW will reveal “a fully new, fascinating high-performance motorcycle in the sportbike segment.”
In what is internally known as a “teaser,” BMW will show a press picture of the K1200S along with some attributes of the new bike — most of them, however, gleaned by our moles some time ago. Ditto for the photo.(Click images for larger view.)


Styling


David Robb disagreed with us when we suggested that the angular-looking R1200GS owed something to the “flame-surfacing” profile of the Bimmer Z4 sport car. Maybe it is what Robb calls “surface tension,” but we see lot of dynamic angles at play in the “tank” area of this K1200S.
We also see is a little GS in the looks of this bike, in a way Euclid would have admired.
The extensive black lowers/belly pan make a good part of the bike vanish beneath the waves, including the new motor. The rear end looks (as is) very light, so reducing the visual footprint of the front end is probably part of the plan. Peering through the rear axle is way cool.
Note that the Roundel is handled much the same way is on the KLT, which in turn took its cue from the Bimmer M Z3.
The final use of color(s) is sure to be different. One of our moles spotted several on a photo shoot in Nevada—none of them Canyon Red. The rest of the bike, however looked just like this. Much more in the upcoming OTL.


What BMW admits


Having worked on the English editing of BMW’s Road to Formula 1 we know better than to entirely trust BMW’s translations, so we shall give our own renderings of what they will post on the press site. We shall also provide a little commentary (with much more, and a riding impression to follow in OTL).
“From the very start the K1200S was conceived as a sportbike, and is a stand-alone motorcycle within the K family: radically new and with an unprecidented wealth of innovations. It is a sportbike that offers the highest riding precison, a unique agility, and overabundant power.“


Wealth of innovations


http://www.bmwra.org/images/K12Scomposite.jpg (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/images/K12Scomposite.jpg)The key phrase here is “wealth of innovations.“ There had to be these — lest the K1200S be seen as just another UJM-like tranverse four. The bike will be chock full of tech goodies from top to bottom. For us, however, the Hossack fork will be the heart of it. That and weight loss. Other details — many of them significant — will have to wait for the press kit.
“The bike leaves nothing to be desired visavis the competition, with power-to-weight almost 50% better than the K1200RS.“
Our sources had us expecting this, but that doesn’t make it any less impressive. One mole told us it feels “like a bicycle.” In the upcoming OTL we write: “The R1200GS had a water-filled bucket symbolizing the 66 lbs that needed to be lost. With the K1200S they must have needed a rain barrel.” When R&D boss Dr. Marcus Braunsperger said the focus would be on Leichtbau (building light) he meant what he said.
“The chassis set-up, along with low weight, makes for “spielerisches” [child’s play] handling. Both result in secure and total command of the power package under all conditions.”
Our mole report in the next OTL raves about the gossamerlike feel of the S. Easy to ride, and “wicked fast.”
“Powered by a transverse 1157 cc in-line four with integrated gearbox this machine attains a unique spot among the sportbikes through its perfect overall concept in concert with Leichtbau shaft drive.”


A true sportbike with shaft drive


Shaft drive on a sportbike! The R1100S has it, but the Boxer S isn’t really sporty enough to be a dedicated sportbike. This K1200S is way sporty enough, and has a very light cardan drive. This was no small feat for BMW R&D.
“The extremely forward-angled (55 degree) cylinder block provides a low cg. This, along with the geometric layout, allowed for an ideal 50-50 weight distribution.”
David Searle at MCN always preaches about a 50-50 weight balance; this bike has it. This, along with little unsprung weight, should work wonders.
“By means of a host of finesse measures in construction, the engine emerged unusually small. The width near the crankshaft approximates that of a 600cc motor. That permitted not only a low motor placement while retaining good cornering clearance, but a small, sporty profile.”
This is key. The engine could not have been placed so low unless it were narrow, lest cornering clearance be compromised. And our moles say it corners like champ.
The engine also dictated moving the shaft and everything else over to the other side, much like the three cylinder (code K3) prototype machine back in 1980.


Over 160 horsepowerhttp://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/images/K12Sengine.jpg (http://www.bmwra.org/images/K12Sengine.jpg)


There is also the admission that the horsepower is “over 160 (117 kW)” and that the “newest generation motor management such as on the R1200GS, with knock suppression is employed on the K1200S.”
Our moles say the motor can be uprated a number of ways for the future — necessary for a machine that is expected to be around a long while. Even this one as is, can probably be chipped up another 10-15 hp.


All-new fork a la Hossack


The chassis is “supremely innovative,” by which they mean the Hossack fork (though it is not referred to as such here). It is: “A revolutionary front wheel steering by means of two parallel links — without Telescopic direction — most precise, with remarkable stiffness and light weight.”
We have worked this issue to death, so wait for OTL to refresh your memory. Then there is the matter of an “electronically adjustable chassis,” mentioned before, but moles have yet to report on how well it works.


Improved partial integrals


To the regret of some, the bike is “Selbstverständlich mit Teilintegralversion ausgerüstet” (equipped with the Integral version of ABS as a matter of course); but we had hoped, and now indeed hear, that the power brakes engage much less abruptly. Our Moles say the ABS is now as good or better than Honda’s.
The new BMW K 1200 S will debut to the drooling public at the INTERMOT in Munich in September and emerge on the market “a bit later.” We think the bike press will already be riding it in Austria in July — on a race track. We also think there will be a K Cup series down the road. This bike cries out for it. Indeed, in certain curvy, lumpy tracks will outperform the fastest sportbikes.

rodgerd
18th May 2004, 20:40
Like the looks; I'd be interested to see how the torque and power curves compare to the litre bikes.

Of course, I can't afford one, and I'd kill myself on it even if I could.

SPman
18th May 2004, 21:06
Hmmm, verry interesting....

be a change to see a BMW sportbike, that actually IS a sportbike.

White trash
19th May 2004, 07:51
It don't look too sporting to me. High bars, low pegs. Just another Bee Emm IMHO.

Horrible, weird front end to absolutely lack feedback as well by the looks of it.

Stick with what you're good at boys. :eyepoke:

FzerozeroT
19th May 2004, 08:00
same thoughts here WT, they APPARANTLY already do good touring bikes. If tey wanted to make a change to perception it should be a track focused weapon of mass destruction, full titanium everything, turboed. 200hp and 100kg.

they are saying, 'we want to be like the jappers' ok then, you'll never be better.


saying that though, I am down for being a test pilot for them. :scooter:

jrandom
19th May 2004, 08:18
It don't look too sporting to me.

Looks like BMW's idea was to make a Blackbird/busa/ZX12 killer, not a track weapon. We'll just have to wait and see how it pans out. 7:57 around the 'proper' Nurburgring is not too shabby.

White trash
19th May 2004, 08:27
And another thing, I have a sneaking suscpision that a single sided shaft drive swingarm wont be too confidence inspiring on one wheel!

Now what use is that? :Oi:

Jackrat
19th May 2004, 08:38
And another thing, I have a sneaking suscpision that a single sided shaft drive swingarm wont be too confidence inspiring on one wheel!

Now what use is that? :Oi:

I was always under the impression that going fast involved keeping both wheels on the ground.Given that the bike will be typical BMW,Average fast,average handling,average looks,Well enginered and Completely boring.
It even looks like a fifteen year old jap touring bike.

FzerozeroT
19th May 2004, 08:39
Looks like BMW's idea was to make a Blackbird/busa/ZX12 killer

They already do - it kills them in comfort, convenience and accessories.

they should look at buell, a harley engine in a sports frame? thats already been done, it's called a sportster. But eric buell persevered and now has a (very profitable) niche market

jrandom
19th May 2004, 08:43
And another thing, I have a sneaking suscpision that a single sided shaft drive swingarm wont be too confidence inspiring on one wheel!

*Everybody* knows shafties can't wheelie.

White trash
19th May 2004, 08:48
Want a bet?! My Dads XJ900 regularly had the top box loaded with whatever heavy stuff I happened to have lying around and that did quite respectable wheelies.

Then a mate of his had me do a wheelie on his Z1300 so he could get a photo of it.

I thought the fucken forks were going to snap when it landed! :wacko:

pete376403
19th May 2004, 08:49
*Everybody* knows shafties can't wheelie.
Or countersteer.

jrandom
19th May 2004, 08:59
Want a bet?! My Dads XJ900 regularly had the top box loaded with whatever heavy stuff I happened to have lying around and that did quite respectable wheelies.

There's always a bite ;)

White trash
19th May 2004, 09:01
Ohhh, a smart arse eh? Just you wait, I'll get you and your little friends..... :laugh:

Posh Tourer :P
19th May 2004, 09:36
It don't look too sporting to me. High bars, low pegs. Just another Bee Emm IMHO.

Horrible, weird front end to absolutely lack feedback as well by the looks of it.

Stick with what you're good at boys. :eyepoke:
doesnt look that different in position to a Blackbird.....

Posh Tourer :P
19th May 2004, 09:46
same thoughts here WT, they APPARANTLY already do good touring bikes. If tey wanted to make a change to perception it should be a track focused weapon of mass destruction, full titanium everything, turboed. 200hp and 100kg.

they are saying, 'we want to be like the jappers' ok then, you'll never be better.

this bike looks to be aimed at people who want something with the huge power of the jappers, but with a difference. It seems to closely resemble a blackbird, but with shaft drive, an inline four engine, and a new style front fork arrangement.

BMW is not about intimate feedback from every bump, its about capable bikes that will handle the bumps. I know my beemer is a bit boring to ride in terms of feedback, but I go straight over the bumps that TS is skirting around....I'm waiting to hear the road test reports until I form any opinion.

Hopefully it wont be a big flop like the K1... which incidentally looks better in the flesh than in pics...

Cajun
19th May 2004, 09:52
better not show the father in law this info he will wanna trade his k1200rs in so he can try and keep up with me and the wife.

jrandom
19th May 2004, 10:09
Hopefully it wont be a big flop like the K1... which incidentally looks better in the flesh than in pics...

Well, it must have looked BLOODY AWFUL in the pics then.

Cajun
19th May 2004, 10:13
only certain type of people buy bmw
and they are very fussy at what they like and don't, they like tons of little toys and buttons to push, want to able to carry everything and the kitchen sink on there bikes with them.

Hitcher
19th May 2004, 11:32
Fascinating. I be thinking that said machine will not come cheap...

FzerozeroT
19th May 2004, 12:09
BMW is not about intimate feedback from every bump, its about capable bikes that will handle the bumps. I know my beemer is a bit boring to ride in terms of feedback, but I go straight over the bumps that TS is skirting around....I'm waiting to hear the road test reports until I form any opinion.

Hopefully it wont be a big flop like the K1... which incidentally looks better in the flesh than in pics...

I loved the K1, especially the front mudguard! But if they are trying to make a 'Japanese Challenger' then they are trying to change perception of who will be buying BMW's.

At the mo' BMW buyers are only certain type of people buy bmw
and they are very fussy at what they like and don't, they like tons of little toys and buttons to push, want to able to carry everything and the kitchen sink on there bikes with them.

'suits', 'soft', 'reliability freaks', (no offence PT, thats the word on the street) and even though having ridden BMW and loved heated grips, electric screen, that key flicky thing to insert, dual fuel taps (turn one off for better milage :2thumbsup ) i couldn't see myself on one.
Why I made the comment about Buells, 'hey thats a bit of me, and a harley engine, thats pretty cool'

Harleys are still there, same as the BMW touring bikes will be. But it doesn't look as if the new bike is going to be a cat among the pigeons, and if BMW are trying to create the perception that it will be and it flops then we will have another K1 on our hands. :disapint:
Same as BMW have the 318 compact for mums, I want an M3 CSL on two wheels. :devil2:

Devil
19th May 2004, 12:22
what a waste of bandwidth. They have the video of the complete lap around the nordschleife and its got shitty music over it so you cant hear the bike and fucking graphics in the way of the speedo!
ASSMASTERS> GIVE ME MY 17MB BACK!

:argh:

Cajun
19th May 2004, 12:50
I loved the K1, especially the front mudguard! But if they are trying to make a 'Japanese Challenger' then they are trying to change perception of who will be buying BMW's.

'suits', 'soft', 'reliability freaks', (no offence PT, thats the word on the street) and even though having ridden BMW and loved heated grips, electric screen, that key flicky thing to insert, dual fuel taps (turn one off for better milage :2thumbsup ) i couldn't see myself on one.
Why I made the comment about Buells, 'hey thats a bit of me, and a harley engine, thats pretty cool'

Harleys are still there, same as the BMW touring bikes will be. But it doesn't look as if the new bike is going to be a cat among the pigeons, and if BMW are trying to create the perception that it will be and it flops then we will have another K1 on our hands. :disapint:
Same as BMW have the 318 compact for mums, I want an M3 CSL on two wheels. :devil2:

hahaha i know FzerozeroT father in law has one, and its good to ride in middle of winter with heated handgrips but boy its hard work pushing it thru corners harder work than the ol gsxr1100 i had. and they eat tires, the fronts last just as long as a rear. we ended up putting dunlop 208 on father in laws bike, to make it turn better, but it eats them like no bodys business

Coldkiwi
19th May 2004, 13:06
why is it that BMW are incapable of designing a bike that looks half decent?? They all look like some parts bin frankenstien project to me. the R1100 boxster is the best looking of the bunch but still looks like its got some nasty case of elephantitis causing its guts to hang out.

i don't doubt their engineering expertise for a minute, but why can't they at least hire an italian to do the styling!?... and use a proper bloody engine format?

pete376403
19th May 2004, 13:08
why is it that BMW are incapable of designing a bike that looks half decent?? They all look like some parts bin frankenstien project to me. the R1100 boxster is the best looking of the bunch but still looks like its got some nasty case of elephantitis causing its guts to hang out.

i don't doubt their engineering expertise for a minute, but why can't they at least hire an italian to do the styling!?... and use a proper bloody engine format?
Like Pininfarina did on the Morbidelli V8?
(see ugly bike thread)

Posh Tourer :P
19th May 2004, 14:32
A proper engine format? like the one used by subaru ie horizontally opposed? Or perhaps the one used by many large jappers, the inline four? ok the boxer is a weird format compared to most other brands of bike, but it has all sorts of advantages, like low CG and being well balanced. Its iconic, which is why when they dropped it in 1990, they bought it back quicksmart in 1996?? with the R850R. Its like harley dropping the v-twin
I agree that beemers tend not to look the greatest, but this bike looks alomst exactly like the blackbird.... the main difference being the tank... and perhaps the shaft drive

White trash
19th May 2004, 14:43
A proper engine format? like the one used by subaru ie horizontally opposed? Or perhaps the one used by many large jappers, the inline four? ok the boxer is a weird format compared to most other brands of bike, but it has all sorts of advantages, like low CG and being well balanced. Its iconic, which is why when they dropped it in 1990, they bought it back quicksmart in 1996?? with the R850R. Its like harley dropping the v-twin
I agree that beemers tend not to look the greatest, but this bike looks alomst exactly like the blackbird.... the main difference being the tank... and perhaps the shaft drive

i hate to disagree, Posh, but I reckon it actually looks far superior to the Blacksparrow.

Hitcher
19th May 2004, 14:46
A proper engine format? like the one used by subaru ie horizontally opposed? Or perhaps the one used by many large jappers, the inline four?

Most probably the BMW north-south inline 4. The rear-most cyclinder on these things tends to coke up, so it's not the greatest in-line 4 setup for a bike by any means.

Posh Tourer :P
19th May 2004, 15:27
WT: I quite like the looks of this bike except maybe for the tank, but in general, beemers arent stunningly beautiful bikes in the sense that some jap sportsbikes are. I like the looks of the odd old beemer because... well... I dont actually know, they just look different and distinctive with the rounded rocker covers....
Hitcher: This bike uses a E-W inline four, very compact and low according to the post by wkid_one. I see why the rearmost cylinder would tend to coke up, and I think that while the K-series was a good idea in terms of expanding their range, the desire to not copy everyone else maybe gave them a little too much creative licence in terms of engine format

Aucker
19th May 2004, 16:40
why is it that BMW are incapable of designing a bike that looks half decent?? They all look like some parts bin frankenstien project to me. the R1100 boxster is the best looking of the bunch but still looks like its got some nasty case of elephantitis causing its guts to hang out.

i don't doubt their engineering expertise for a minute, but why can't they at least hire an italian to do the styling!?... and use a proper bloody engine format?
Disagree- looks nice! :cool: Probly very unaffordable for me though :eek5:

What?
20th May 2004, 08:08
But eric buell persevered and now has a (very profitable) niche market
Not really. Eric went financially belly-up; HD saw the potential based on what he had achieved and bought the Buell name & designs.

White trash
20th May 2004, 08:16
No he didn't. He just financially couldn't further develope his machines. H-D bought 98% of the company but left E Buell in charge.

If he'd gone belly up, they would have arseholed him outta there quick smart.

It means now that H-D can use Buell bits in their bikes.

What?
20th May 2004, 08:55
Thanks for that WT - it explains the bit I couldn't understand in the article I read (business paper, not a bike publication). The article also said that Buell production had moved into the main HD plant - true?

White trash
20th May 2004, 09:20
Thanks for that WT - it explains the bit I couldn't understand in the article I read (business paper, not a bike publication). The article also said that Buell production had moved into the main HD plant - true?

Nope, Buell is a completely different factory and probably allways will be. They use completely different tooling for making Buells. I think the motors (which are still developed by Buell) are made in the HD factory then shipped to Buell.

Harley have just this year opened a new factory dedicated purely to the Softail range.

What?
20th May 2004, 09:32
I've learned something: Read about bikes in bike mags, not the NBR.

Now, back on topic, I think the BMW looks a bit too angular - not unlike the Aprillia Futura. Especially the tank. Bet it's nice to ride, though...

Coldkiwi
20th May 2004, 13:06
Like Pininfarina did on the Morbidelli V8?
(see ugly bike thread)

errr... yeah :thud:

I was going to offer an example but then the pinanfarina shockers came to mind!
How about someone responsible like Mr Tamburini??? He's a good fulla :) (999 subject to taste but its growing on me)

I'm going to continue to disagree about that engine format because those boxers they run in the boxer Cup must go through carbon engine case covers like the British go through excuses for being crap at sports! The low C of G (get that engine sticking out low to the ground) has a major disadvantage in rooting up how far you can tip it in. While they're limiting clearence they'd might as make it comfy and install foot boards!

Milky
20th May 2004, 14:27
hahaha i know FzerozeroT father in law has one, and its good to ride in middle of winter with heated handgrips but boy its hard work pushing it thru corners harder work than the ol gsxr1100 i had. and they eat tires, the fronts last just as long as a rear. we ended up putting dunlop 208 on father in laws bike, to make it turn better, but it eats them like no bodys business

I have found that it isnt so much the beemers being a hard bike to turn in, just that they require a totally different riding style. If you try to ride one like you would a RG150 you find you are fighting the bike. A more relaxed, encouraging style works best IMHO. Not that i have ridden many of them, but from the few i have, i get that impression. I think tyre life will change dramatically too if you try not to ride it like a japanese sportsbike.

Cajun
20th May 2004, 14:46
I have found that it isnt so much the beemers being a hard bike to turn in, just that they require a totally different riding style. If you try to ride one like you would a RG150 you find you are fighting the bike. A more relaxed, encouraging style works best IMHO. Not that i have ridden many of them, but from the few i have, i get that impression. I think tyre life will change dramatically too if you try not to ride it like a japanese sportsbike.

Well i have done well over 1000kms on my father in laws one, its just take alot of work to get it thru a corner, and if you wanna get thru a corner well, you pretty much gonna hang off one like an ape, okay some of this might be down to fact that i am 60kgs and my father in law is 120kgs and its set up more for his weight. but still its a heavy bike and they don't go around corners that great.

but no matter i got the gixxer for the corners

James Deuce
20th May 2004, 15:00
errr... yeah :thud:

I was going to offer an example but then the pinanfarina shockers came to mind!
How about someone responsible like Mr Tamburini??? He's a good fulla :) (999 subject to taste but its growing on me)



Pierre Terblanche did the 999 and the Multistrada. The 999 reminds me of my garage door, and the Multistrada looks like an accident between a Dalek, a Guzzi California, and Ducati 750 F1.

The 999 is NOT growing on me at all. Seeing them in the flesh just confirms how hideous they are.

The BMW that coined this thread is not offensive however.

Posh Tourer :P
20th May 2004, 18:47
Well i have done well over 1000kms on my father in laws one, its just take alot of work to get it thru a corner, and if you wanna get thru a corner well, you pretty much gonna hang off one like an ape, okay some of this might be down to fact that i am 60kgs and my father in law is 120kgs and its set up more for his weight. but still its a heavy bike and they don't go around corners that great.

but no matter i got the gixxer for the corners

Thats a K1200 innit..... I would suggest that there is a way to get every bike into a corner, you just have to find it..... The R65 works best with a huge handful of countersteer, and doesnt feel particularly comfy hanging off it... but maybe I just need to get used to it. Are you hanging off cos you cant get the bike into the corner? or cos it doesnt have enough clearance?

mangell6
20th May 2004, 19:01
Pierre Terblanche did the 999 and the Multistrada. The 999 reminds me of my garage door, and the Multistrada looks like an accident between a Dalek, a Guzzi California, and Ducati 750 F1.


Oii!! leave Daleks out of this. Davros created them and he would hate anyone stealing his ideas. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Coldkiwi
20th May 2004, 19:12
Pierre Terblanche did the 999 and the Multistrada. The 999 reminds me of my garage door, and the Multistrada looks like an accident between a Dalek, a Guzzi California, and Ducati 750 F1.

The 999 is NOT growing on me at all. Seeing them in the flesh just confirms how hideous they are.

The BMW that coined this thread is not offensive however.


mmmm ok, I had a second look and the beemer wasn't as bad as I first thought. <_<
I'll agree its miles ahead of the Numptystrada!! What was he THINKING!? you'll eventually get numb to the 999... it may be a bit ugly but at least it can kick some butt if needed :cool:

sedge
20th May 2004, 20:50
Ummmm... is it just me? or does it look like someone already crashed it and put on a new main fairing? I guess pre-munting the tank saves on repairs, unless it's some kind of radical new origami design thing.

Ah what do I know, my bike is green. (not with envy... I think it's mould)

pete376403
20th May 2004, 21:53
I have found that it isnt so much the beemers being a hard bike to turn in, just that they require a totally different riding style. If you try to ride one like you would a RG150 you find you are fighting the bike. A more relaxed, encouraging style works best IMHO. Not that i have ridden many of them, but from the few i have, i get that impression. I think tyre life will change dramatically too if you try not to ride it like a japanese sportsbike.
A mate had a K1100RS - in the time he had it it cost him as much for tyres as it did for gas.