The Search continues...

[Ghost Lemur]

Have found a couple more bikes on trademe that might be suitable for me.

'90 Honda CBR250R (http://www.trademe.co.nz/structure/auction_detail.asp?id=11644772&permanent=0)
'83 Yamaha RZ 250 (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Road-bikes/Japanese/auction-11432605.htm)
'84 Suzuki RG250 (http://www.trademe.co.nz/structure/auction_detail.asp?id=11651272&permanent=0)

But need some further advice. A couple of them are 2strokes. What's the deal with them, I know that they are quicker and need more upkeep, engine rebuilds etc. Is there anything else to consider.

Also would anyone in Wellington and Auckland be willing to act on my behalf if the need ever arises.

Obviously being less than knowledgeable on the workings of motorbikes I understand the importance of prepurchase inspections, but don't want to pay for one for every bike I consider (could end up costing me a bike by the time I actually find a suitable one). So I've started writing up a checklist or questions to ask things to look for.

Checklist.
- Servicing history.
- Last engine rebuild (if 2 stroke or high K 4 stroke)
- Fairing damage/condition
- K's
- Dropped

Anything else I'm missing. Any parts I should be looking at (if viewing a bike) in particular?

I wish they would raise the learner limit to 400cc. There are no less than 4 suitable bikes for less than $3k atm (ie same price as the same age/model/k's 250).

Any other thoughts mightily appreciated.

[pete376403]

A two stroke will be (generally) quicker that the equivalent size four stroke (Eastern European two strokes excepted)
Part of the reason they're quicker is less parts, less weight. Another is twice as many power strokes. Exhaust valve trickery (power valves) makes them more rideable, unfortunately the exhaust port is probably the worst environment for a moving part, hence the higher maintenance.
Two stroke consume oil as part of their normal running. People sometimes overlook this, especially those who have only ever known four stroke motors. This can be a very expensive lesson to learn, painful too, if it happens at high speed.
The exhaust note will never be confused with a big grunter.
If you are prepared to give them the extra TLC, a 250 two stroke can be very rewarding (my sons RGV250 would hose my GS1100 in just about everything except luggage capacity)

[k14]

I would recommend to give the 2-strokes a miss for your first bike. They aren't very easy to get used to and aren't recommended for learners.

I bought a VT250F out of the buy-sell-exchange for $1100 last february. That was my first bike and it was brillant to learn on. Cheap to maintain and never had any problems with it.

The CBR probably isn't a bad buy, but it costs around $250 to get it VINed and then you have to pay the bill if something isn't up to standard. But it could be a really good buy. Probably want to get it checked out first. If you want a hand just flick me a PM.

P.S. There is a reason the 400's are cheap, there is ample supply but no demand. Cause as soon as people get their full's they go up to a 600cc or more.

[Posh Tourer :P]

The 400s would go up in price if you raised the learner limit... I reckon the learner limit need to be on HP anyways if anything....

Check out the normal life of the engine.... the CB125T does 40-50,000k whereas an RG150 does 25000k. It varies among models.

2-strokes need oil filled regularly, as they burn it with the petrol. Fourstrokes have separated oil so it only needs changing and doesnt get "used" as such. If I have time, I'm happy to go and test ride something / look at it for you.

Good indicators of usage? Look at the condition of the chain, make sure the steering feels smooth (steering head bearings). If it has been modified in any way have a good look at the modified bits. If they look dodgy they often arent good mods (apologies to KK :bleh:)
There is however, an important difference between a dirty but good bike and a POS. Its the dirty but good ones you want, as they are cheaper than clean, good looking good ones. No magic formula for picking the difference though...

[toads]

My son has just got a 92 honda cbr 250 rr, a few differences to the one on trademe, but it's a very nice little bike, goes like the clappers and I can't see him getting sick of it in a hurry, my hubby had to get his bike re vinned and it cost just under $300, it sailed through no problems, just make sure the bike hasn't been obviously crashed and is up to wof standard, ie fork seals not leaking, brake pads/ linings in good order and the lights etc all working well as well as good tyre tread. It's only marginally more inconvienient than getting a normal wof, oh and the cost included 6mths reg too, :mobile:

[Big Dog]

Head bearings are they notchy or is the spacer bent from over torqueing (common in 250's due to learner's usually being learner mechanics too)?

Wheel bearings front and rear. When the wheel is suspended does it experience lateral movement?

What color is the soot in the pipe? If it is really dark it is running too rich, why?

When purchasing privately you should as a matter of course check and replace all of your consumerables, regardless of what they say, people lie. Chain, oil, filters etc. so you KNOW when the next service is due.

Take a swab (buy one from any pharmacy they are just a big cotton bud should cost around 20c if they charge you), dip it in the oil and hold up to a strong light, if it sparkles definately get it inspected.

Don't disreguard a bike just because something needs doing but compare a few until you know what is a good deal. If you get as far as an inspection and you are not happy about something use it as leverage to drag the price down. If you still in your gut feel it is wrong trust that instinct.

Save yourself a few bucks on inspections, only get a bike inspected if you are already happy to buy it subject to inspection.
Most vendors will be happy to do this (they discount the bike by the same amount or a portion if you buy, you pay if you don't).

If you want to decide between to bikes take them both to the same warrant place (not where the vendor does), and explain you are going to buy them, warrant guys will be very tough if they know this is why you are there, and have in the past pointed out stuff they would normally ignore as being irrellevant. For this to be truly effective be prepared to act very naieve.

[Wenier]

The 250cc 4 strokes are an awesome bike to start out with being overall more reliable when ya dont no much straight off. If you get the right one they are quick and will give you much enjoyment for years. And with the 2 strokes having there powerband kind of suddenly its not always a good idea for a learner to start off with them as it could cause you some issues when not ready for it.

[FROSTY]

just come here to auckland and buy my fxr150

[MikeL]

There is a reason the 400's are cheap, there is ample supply but no demand. Cause as soon as people get their full's they go up to a 600cc or more.

Exactly. Which makes the 400 a bargain. I got no offers on my CB1/400 advertised at $2,500 (would have accepted $2,000) but wasn't prepared to go any lower and ended up keeping it because it's such a fun bike to ride.
400s would actually make good sense for someone coming back to biking after a long gap but most people who have done their time on a 250 are more likely to see the 400 as an unnecessary middle step before a 600, 750 or bigger. If NZ followed the U.K. and had hp restriction instead of engine size, or some Aussie states which have learner-approved bikes over 250cc, the 400s would have the popularity they deserve and 250s would not be inflated in value.

[Ghost Lemur]

Thanks for the pointers so far guys.

I'm going to have a look at the cbr tomorrow. Unfortunately k14 is unavailable to hold my hand.

I'm not taking any money with me, and I highly doubt I'll buy it (mainly coz I just don't trust myself to make the right choice). But it should be a good learning experience as far as getting up close and personal to a bike. Also a little concerned about the whole vin process. Some say it's got to be up to new standard, no damage superficial or otherwise. Others have told me it's not different to a wof.

On the phone the guy said the wrecker/Mechanic who gave it it's servicing/brought it up to wof standard, said that it's running lean when cool and rich when warm. Something to do with the previous owner doing something with the carb. Any ideas?

By the sounds of it I'll be sticking away from 2strokes for the meantime.

Keep the advice coming.

[k14]

From the photo it looked like it had an aftermarket can put on it. So that could be the reason for the change in jetting. But it probably isn't anything to worry about.

The bike has to be up to WOF standard. I had to get my bike VINed when I got it (first NZ owner from japan) and it was all sweet. Only thing that the guy pulled me up on was what year it was manufactured, so I had to get confirmation from the honda dealer. But I doubt you will have to do that.

Hope everything goes well.

[What?]

I'm not taking any money with me, and I highly doubt I'll buy it (mainly coz I just don't trust myself to make the right choice).... it's running lean when cool and rich when warm. Something to do with the previous owner doing something with the carb. Any ideas?

By the sounds of it I'll be sticking away from 2strokes for the meantime.
You sound very sensible Ghost.
My KLF350 runs lean cold - it just means it takes a while to warm up and requires the choke on for a bit longer than you might expect. No big deal. Rich when hot, unless it is grossly rich, is nothing to worry about. If your carburretion is out, it is better to err on the side of richness. Too lean can do serious damnage to the engine.

[toads]

my understanding of the cbr carburettion is they have balanced carbs, if someone has tinkered with the balance at all, one cylinder could be running lean when the others are ok, I would check with a cbr owner or honda shop to make sure they haven't been meddled with too much, my son has had his bike fiddled with every day he's taken it to school someone tweaking the idle adjustment just to be nasty, also turning off the killswitch, there's some nasty kids out there, I've suggested he takes his scooter to school at least noone is gonna play with it.

[rettun]

Im still lookn too man, the 250 market sucks =(

[White trash]

Keep up the search folks, it's worth the effort.

Most of us here have done our apprentiship. :niceone:

[Wenier]

Buy mine ZXR250 3k

[Ghost Lemur]

I agree with ya on the sucking part rettun.

Went and had a look at the cbr, bit rough around the edges, certainly had recent work done. Wont be buying it. Mainly due to the uncertainty surrounding the vining etc. i can't afford to have a lemon requiring bulk work for vin. The chain also looked quite loose (maybe it wasn't I don't know what tight or loose is). But I lifted the bottom up about 3-4 cm from where it was sitting.

Still considering the 2stroker in Wellington. Reasoning, It seems to have been well maintained including top end done in March, so the high k's should be too much of a hinderance. It's got bulk spares which is certainly a bonus when getting started.
Would someone in Wellington be willing to have a look at it for me?

Some other 2 stroke questions. How much oil do they use? The engine has 85k on it is that a problem even if it has been well maintained? What actually is involved in these "rebuilds", top end? bottom end? How much do they cost? Are there any other maintainence issues to think about apart from the increase in engine rebuilds.

Thanks again everyone.

[pete376403]

A full rebuild,done properly, on a two stroke would be expensive. All roller bearing crankshaft means the crank and rods are serviced as an assembly. While they can be pressed apart and have the bearings replaced, this is not a job for the faint hearted.
Cylinders on a modern bike are hard chrome lined, so rebore is not usually possible.
Power valves are expensive, and require regular attention.
Thats the down side.
OTOH, if the bike has been properly maintained, fed good quality oil and had the air filters looked after, there's no reason why it shouldn't last just as long as an equivalent sized four stroke. Bear in mind the 250 fours are revving to 18,000 or so. Not many two stroke will need those sort of revs to make decent power.
(The crank on my GS1100 is also all roller bearing - it's turned over 95,000 km without being touched)

[Ghost Lemur]

The 2stroke has been sold now. And the cbr is at $1700 (crazy people getting excited and bidding beyond worth).

But there is this '87 gsxr (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Road-bikes/Japanese/auction-11709083.htm) that I'll start watching. But I have a feeling that because it's a gsxr it too is going to go for a rediculous price. Does it sound like a fixable problem or is he right that it will need a new engine?

I'm quite proud of myself as I normally am the type of person to rush into a purchase with enthusiasm and then regret it when the reality of what I've bought sets in. With this I am more relaxed about waiting for that right bike to come along. Although of course I'd like to of had it like yesterday and be out riding already. But the longer I wait the more moeny I have and the better my options get, so there is an upside.

[marty]

broken cam chain = bent valves. don't go there. at all.

[marty]

have you considered one of these genre? late models, well priced, the 150 guys on here seem to like them - they certainly go well

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Road-bikes/Japanese/auction-11652827.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Road-bikes/Japanese/auction-11600085.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Road-bikes/Japanese/auction-11669591.htm

[Posh Tourer :P]

A chain should have roughly 4cm total play up and down at the tightest spot on it. This is a rough guideline only, and may change for different chain/sprocket combos (expert out clause if there happen to be exceptions). There can be some considerable difference in tight and loose spots on the chain, and this normally indicates an unlubricated chain. The chain itslef isnt really important, as it isnt *too* expensive to get a new chain/sprockets, but it is a good indicator of whether the bike has had any maintenance done to it....

[Ghost Lemur]

Going to look at an '81 cb250rs tomorrow afternoon.

Discription so far, dropped a couple of times superficial damage, wof runs out this month ( but he might consider getting a new one on it) been used about 3 times to go to and from wellington.

Is there anything special I should know about these? Any problem areas? It seems to fit the profile of cheap hack (while still being legally on the road) perfectly. Which is exactly the advice I got in my other thread for a perfect first bike.

Damn I'm loving this... although obviously not as much as I will going riding.

[What?]

He has to put a new WoF on it. them's the rules, these days.
Good bike, but getting on in years now. Check for rattley top end, otherwise all the usual stuff yolu've been told already.

[Ghost Lemur]

Went and had a look at the '81 cb250rs. k14 met me there and asked all the right questions for me.

It's got more ducktap than metal :lol:, mainly superficial (torn seat, broken screw on the light cover). It had been dropped, resulting in a bent back break leaver and partially snapped front brake leaver and damaged indicator. k14 took it for a quick spin and gave an ok on the mechanics, with a sidenote for oil change. The guy selling it is going back to Japan on the 7th so wanted to hang on to it till then, or the friday before. As I've still to sort out my licence I saw no problem with this, and even got him to agree to get a new wof on it before I collect. The motor was replaced by the owner before him, and he has had it the entire time he's been in NZ (4 years), and made 3 trips to Wellington on it.

So this looks to be my first bike. A hack as recommended. Not much damage can be done to it if I drop it while learning. And it's cheap which means I have either more money to spend on safety gear or some left over money to go towards my forhundy.

[Posh Tourer :P]

good choice... recently fixed up one of these for a first bike for a friend...The cam chain guide had slipped, and luckily they hadnt run it much and the valves werent too bent, we just checked them over and gave them a good grind. got it really cheap though...front brake lever is about $10 from mt eden motocycles, rest of the parts were manageably cheap, so good choice from that point of view. Look pretty simple and seem easy to maintain. Good enough power, good solid little bike....