CBR1K vs. CBR929

[Toast]

Can the old-school 929 take it to a bike with motoGP technology and lots of other marketing bullshit thrown at it?

I had the pleasure of riding my mate's 2004 CBR1K back to back with my 929 yesterday, and here's how I reckon they compare...

The bikes:

2001 CBR 929: Suspension Tech front fork upgrade, braided brake lines, 2Bro's full system exhaust, PC3, aftermarket footpegs (slightly higher ground clearance than stock, but still a joke), running Michelin Pilot Powers.

2004 CBR1K: Full Yoshi system, everything else stock, running Metzeler Racetecs.

The Engines:

Firstly, this CBR1K with the Full Yoshi system is one of the best sounding street bikes I've heard. It sounds quiet and just a little menacing at idle, and every blip of the throttle unleashes a very angry, raspy, deep bark.

Given the sound of it, I was expecting armageddon when I got on it and opened up...nope! It was so unbelievably smooth! Smoother than my 929 and it doesn't even have a PC3 to help it deal with the new exhaust. Just like all of the reviews have said, it really is a bit underwhelming when you first get on. This is partly due to the throttle having a seemingly very long travel, but also 'cos there's just no steps in the power curve. It's only when you look down at the speedo that you realise you're on a CBR1000, and not a CBR250 with extra wind noise option as you were led to believe.

My 929 in comparison feels quicker, even though it's not. To be honest, this is mostly because of the aftermarket exhaust, which is loud and makes it pick up a lot more in the mid-range and top end. The stock package was almost as deceptive in building speed as the CBR1K. 2nd and 3rd gears, it doesn't feel like there's much in it. However, beyond 220, the 929 would get stomped, owing, I believe, to the lack of ram air.

So, CBR1K probably wins in the engine department, being smoother and a bit more powerful. It's a nice package, but then the 929 never had a killer engine in the first place, so I wasn't expecting an upset for my bike here.

Brakes:

I found the CBR1K to be quite disappointing here. Lots of power, but stuff all feel. Maybe I've just been spoilt by the braided lines on the 929, which allow extremely precise control of the front brakes. On the 929, I can brake hard in the wet, drag the brakes in to a corner or dab them at a decent lean angle to help it transition from one side to the other better, all in complete confidence. Plenty of power in the 929 brakes too.

I'd give the decision on brakes to my 929, but only 'cos I cheated and put braided lines on. The '04 CBR1K is pretty average in this department compared to newer bikes...a 636 for example, would shit on it. Apparently the '06 CBR1K is a bit better.

Handling:

Again a bit of cheating here 'cos my bike's got uprated forks. The bikes are really quite different in the way they do things in the first place anyway...

The 929 is a short arse bike. It's got a low seat height, low ground clearance, and from all of this, a low centre of gravity really. This makes it very good for a litre bike in the tight, tight stuff. Side to side transitions are a breeze, and it hung on to MR's Ohlins'd-out R6 pretty well on the Coro.

The CBR1K is comparatively very high, which took a few corners to get used to. It turns in pretty quickly, though not quite as quick as the 929. It took bumps pretty well, despite my mate having it set pretty hard. I was especially impressed with the electronic damper, which made 200km/h bumps that shake the 929's head a little just disappear. The 1K held a line really well, and was quite happy to respond to a desire to change your line through use of the throttle.

Basically I found the 1K competent in this department, but I didn't really like it. The whole expereince just felt a little more vague than I'm used to on my current or previous bikes. I could make the thing go fast around a corner (as fast as I'd allow myself on a mate's bike), and the eyes were telling me that everything was looking good, but the ass, legs and hands were searching for some feedback on what the hell's going on at ground level.

Maybe this was due to the different tyres, or the damper, or just the fact that I'm used to my bike...? I'm not sure, but I just couldn't connect with it in the way I like.

For outright potential, I'm pretty sure that the CBR1K has it all over the 929. On Puke, my money would be on the CBR1K for sure. It'd eat the bumpy sweeper with its stability, and wouldn't run out of lean angle everywhere like the 929. On Taupo short track, I might actually back the 929. The CBR is just a bit more cumbersome than I'd like. On the road...I think I'd still go the 929, unless I lived somewhere that the roads were in particularly shit condition and there was heaps of long, fast corners.

Looks:
Who cares...

Ok then, CBR1K in grey/black with no rear fender and Yoshi RS-5 sticking out the back has it in the looks department in my opinion...but it's still got some weird angles going on. I think that the 954 was some seriously sexy looking beast, and Honda took a step back with the 1K.

Conclusion:

The 1K is a nice bike. At the start, I was expecting to ride it, and then feel like my bike is an inferior piece of shit in comparison. Instead, I came off of the 1K feeling a bit underwhelmed, a bit numb even. Once back on my bike, it felt a bit 'agricultural' (no offence Poos), a bit old-tech, but a lot more involved, and a lot more fun.

The 04/05 CBR1K almost certainly won't be my next bike. The '06 is supposed to be a big improvement (many publications which rated the old model CBR1K last, rated the '06 near the top of the pile...Superbike mag and www.motorcycleusa.com for example), so maybe that has a chance to keep me in the Honda camp.

More likely though, if I stay in the litre bike market, I'll be jumping back to the Kawasaki camp, and putting my life on the line with an 04/05 10R, if there's any that haven't been high-sided when I come to buy next year :niceone: Go Ninja!!

[Sensei]

From riding both bikes I would say that I would rather have a CBR 929 or 954 over a CBR-1000RR . The CBR-1000RR just don't come close to what I exspect out of a 1000cc bike . Ride with Pride what ya own I do !

[Zapf]

I recently developed an interest in the 954's. Since I am after a not so hard edged sports bike, I was thinking the 954 might fit the bill.

I am after something that will do the long distance ride / day ride (hoon) / light sporty with good weather protection. And will handle a multiday riding trip without problems.

For example I found my last GSXR750 a really good handling bike, but too hard edged and sports focused. Would those of you who have had experience with 929's and 954's say the 954 is close to what I am after? E.g a softer edged big bike that is friendly and enjoyable? and less agressive in riding position than the latest CBR1K / GSXR family?

I have looked at the birds and related, but they are just too heavy and big for me.

Thanks for your comments :)

[boomer]

Busa or a bird??

[justsomeguy]

I recently developed an interest in the 954's.
Thanks for your comments :)

PM Zed.

10 cataractractors

[Fishy]

I think I know the guy who owned that 04 Blade before your mate. Did he buy it for $12.5k?

[Toast]

I think I know the guy who owned that 04 Blade before your mate. Did he buy it for $12.5k?

Yep, he bought it off John.

Quite a good deal compared to what else is on the market I reckon.

KB'rs may remember that particular bike being piled in to a wall at Puke (Castrol I believe). Looks a minter bar one small, random crack in the upper fairing now though.

[Toast]

I recently developed an interest in the 954's. Since I am after a not so hard edged sports bike, I was thinking the 954 might fit the bill.

I am after something that will do the long distance ride / day ride (hoon) / light sporty with good weather protection. And will handle a multiday riding trip without problems.

For example I found my last GSXR750 a really good handling bike, but too hard edged and sports focused. Would those of you who have had experience with 929's and 954's say the 954 is close to what I am after? E.g a softer edged big bike that is friendly and enjoyable? and less agressive in riding position than the latest CBR1K / GSXR family?

I have looked at the birds and related, but they are just too heavy and big for me.

Thanks for your comments :)

Yo Zapf, as the 954 is basically a 929 with incremental improvements in most areas, I think I can comment.

Given your needs, I'd recommend one to you. The 929/954's low height makes them extremely flickable. The riding position is more relaxed, not so perched on top and forward as the newer bikes. I think that the lower height also makes them more stable and less threatening if you get yourself in to a bit of a slide too.

They've got good weather protection; I lay on the tank in the pouring rain on the way to Whangaparoa once (50km highway ride), and was pretty shocked when I turned up with a completely dry chest and legs, just a leaky right boot let a little water in to my sock.

The bikes are renowned for having flighty, sometimes slappy front ends, but after I set the suspension up properly (I just set the sag for me, it was a pig before I did this), I found this to be far from the truth. I had a few rear end slides at Taupo, and the front adjusted itself smoothly without any hint of a slapper developing. Light and stable, can't really complain there.

You can try mine out if you like. It's been modded a bit, which has changed its character in some areas, but if you take that as a base and imagine a bike much quieter, with smoother low revs fuelling, and softer suspension, you're pretty much there.

It's a pity that you sold your Gix750 already...I'm in half a mind to get something more hardcore and track focused...may have been a deal to be made in there :)

[Zed]

Nice comparison Mr Toast! I too rode a mates '04 CBR1000 on the weekend and came away thinking it's a more powerful & aggressive bike than my 954 but not as comfy. I tend to think bikes *grow* on you anyway and that I could quite easily enjoy the thou, but i'm still loving my 954 and more and more each day, so i'm in no hurry to change.

[Toast]

Nice comparison Mr Toast! I too rode a mates '04 CBR1000 on the weekend and came away thinking it's a more powerful & aggressive bike than my 954 but not as comfy. I tend to think bikes *grow* on you anyway and that I could quite easily enjoy the thou, but i'm still loving my 954 and more and more each day, so i'm in no hurry to change.

Hmmm, yeah, maybe with time the thou' would become more involving. The more I think about it right now though, the more disappointed with the thou' I am. Still, I can't argue with the sales charts, which I'm sure are looking pretty good.

Hey, my 929's gonna look mean by the weekend with an integrated tail light added on :D No gay plastic thing and indicators will definitely accentuate the bike's booty :niceone:

[Zed]

Hmmm, yeah, maybe with time the thou' would become more involving. The more I think about it right now though, the more disappointed with the thou' I am. Still, I can't argue with the sales charts, which I'm sure are looking pretty good.Don't get me wrong though, first impressions are very important too!!


Hey, my 929's gonna look mean by the weekend with an integrated tail light added on :D No gay plastic thing and indicators will definitely accentuate the bike's booty :niceone:Very trick!

So ya reckon you could keep up with a 954 on that beast of yours? :blip:

[Zed]

Yo Zapf, as the 954 is basically a 929 with incremental improvements in most areas...Check out this (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/roadtests/2002_honda_cbr954rr/) article which discusses those improvements. :Punk:

[Toast]

So ya reckon you could keep up with a 954 on that beast of yours? :blip:

Oh ho ho...fightin word's eh boy? ;)

I guess I'll have to have a go some time and find out :) Gentleman's rules, ofcourse.

[Toast]

Check out this (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/roadtests/2002_honda_cbr954rr/) article which discusses those improvements. :Punk:

They called my bike decrepit :(

Oh well...

Mmmm, 954 wheels 6 ounces lighter each...and a lighter swingarm...now where can I get those parts...hmmm... :shifty:

[Zed]

Oh ho ho...fightin word's eh boy? ;)

I guess I'll have to have a go some time and find out :) Gentleman's rules, ofcourse.Always enjoy the competitive spirit!

[Zed]

They called my bike decrepit :(

Oh well...

Mmmm, 954 wheels 6 ounces lighter each...and a lighter swingarm...now where can I get those parts...hmmm... :shifty:They also said your bike was "more precise than any of its open-class competition"!

Enjoy what you have, the 929 ain't that far behind...:second:

[Fishy]

Yep, he bought it off John.

Quite a good deal compared to what else is on the market I reckon.

KB'rs may remember that particular bike being piled in to a wall at Puke (Castrol I believe). Looks a minter bar one small, random crack in the upper fairing now though.

Yep thats the one.

Bloody nice guy John, and very quick on 2 wheels!.

[Biohazard]

Ssshhhhhhh my 1000RR will here ya taking about them like that.

All Blades are wonderfull bikes......

Long live the Urban Tiger :nya:

TBH - is the avergae rider really gonna be able to tell the subtle differances :blip: ....its all marketing I tell ya.

[Zed]

All Blades are wonderfull bikes......

Long live the Urban Tiger :nya:

TBH - is the avergae rider really gonna be able to tell the subtle differances :blip: ....its all marketing I tell ya.Who are you calling "average" riders huh??

Agree with you about all Blades! :niceone:

[The Stranger]

[QUOTE=Zapf
I have looked at the birds and related, but they are just too heavy and big for me.
[/QUOTE]

Got to wonder, what does "too heavy and big for me" mean?

[Toast]

Yep thats the one.

Bloody nice guy John, and very quick on 2 wheels!.

Quicker on 2 wheels than on 2 metal legs...

Yeah, seems a nice guy though.

[Toast]

They also said your bike was "more precise than any of its open-class competition"!

Enjoy what you have, the 929 ain't that far behind...:second:

haha, yep, she ain't perfect, but I'm enjoying her more and more as time goes on...

[Biohazard]

Who are you calling "average" riders huh??

Anyone who isnt a Honda test rider or equivalent, but saying that there are some tasty track day nutters about...who could tell the differance.

Me im "Mr Joe Average :bye: ", but love a long twisty road :blip:

[Zed]

Anyone who isnt a Honda test rider or equivalent...Yeah good answer! :blah:

[Zapf]

Quick question Zed / Toast,
Would you say the front end of the 929/954's as planted? or flighty?

And for what reason in your personal opion have you installed the steering damper?

Thanks.

[Zed]

Quick question Zed / Toast,
Would you say the front end of the 929/954's as planted? or flighty?Planted, unless i decide to take it to flight!

The front end of my 954 feels stable as, sticks to the road well, and just steers itself around corners, though on uneven surfaces at high speeds the front can experience some serious headshake, hence the answer to your 2nd question below!


And for what reason in your personal opion have you installed the steering damper?

Thanks.O yeah, when you're bringing the front down at high speeds the damper pays for itself. I recommend you get one anyway if you buy a Blade. :ride:

[deeknow]

I recently developed an interest in the 954's. Since I am after a not so hard edged sports bike, I was thinking the 954 might fit the bill. I am after something that will do the long distance ride / day ride (hoon) / light sporty with good weather protection. And will handle a multiday riding trip without problems.

Hi Zapf (and others), I'm sure a 954 (or 929) would do the trick for ya. I bought one about 6-months back after having had a ZX7R for a couple of years so I guess I had similar upgrade goals/needs as you. It may not be quite as sure-footed (ie heavy :-) as the old kwaka but by christ its a lot easier to throw around, has plenty of go (and stop), is great on longer rides, and I've been commuting thru town on it without any probs.

Another killer thing is that bang-for-your-buck I reckon they're bloody great value when you consider you can pick up a tidy 02-03 model for the same price as a 600 of similar age (tho I almost bought an R6 :-), and be $5k+ better off in the pocket than if you'd bought a brand new litre class machine (I almost bought a ZX10 :-)

ps - you and other current or potential blade owners might enjoy the attached pic which one of my workmates knocked out from a photo of my 954, bloody cool cartoonish thing (done using GIMP)

[Zapf]

Planted, unless i decide to take it to flight!

O yeah, when you're bringing the front down at high speeds the damper pays for itself. I recommend you get one anyway if you buy a Blade. :ride:

Thanks for the advice.... any idea how much is a damper?

[Zapf]

Hi Zapf (and others), I'm sure a 954 (or 929) would do the trick for ya. I bought one about 6-months back ...

Thanks, I saw on your pics that you had those Michellen Pilot Sports tires on them. How long ago was that? What did you think of them? As I was thinking if I should swap them out for a fresh set.

[cowpoos]

Always enjoy the competitive spirit!
your still slow though....and so is toast....get suzuki's...the pair of ya...

[Zapf]

your still slow though....and so is toast....get suzuki's...the pair of ya...

had one... slower still :scooter:

[Zed]

your still slow though....and so is toast....get suzuki's...the pair of ya...A Suzooki won't speed me up mate, but stupidity might! :bye:

[Zed]

Thanks for the advice.... any idea how much is a damper?Check this (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=30812) out.

[Toast]

Quick question Zed / Toast,
Would you say the front end of the 929/954's as planted? or flighty?

And for what reason in your personal opion have you installed the steering damper?

Thanks.

Like I said above: pre setting up the suspension, it was a slappy mutt, but after cranking the front pre-load right in it was great. Reason in my mind being that it put the sag for my weight within recommended levels, and it brought the front down, meaning a bit more of my weight was sitting over it. Now it's very planted, and any unwanted movements don't get out of control.

[deeknow]

Thanks, I saw on your pics that you had those Michellen Pilot Sports tires on them. How long ago was that? What did you think of them?

They've been great, fitted a new pair just after buying the bike. Bit of a revelation for me as far as mileage is concerned, I'd been running sets of D208s on the kwaka and have gotten at least a 1000km more outta the Pilot-sports on the 954 so far. The front is pretty much screwed now tho so may get another for the remainder of winter

[Sensei]

Thanks for the advice.... any idea how much is a damper?


$465 including GST form Robert Taylor at Hawera M/C 062784160

[cowpoos]

$465 including GST form Robert Taylor at Hawera M/C 062784160
nah....more than that for one of them honda's....and a mounting kit bro...think its 695+ mounting kit....

[Sensei]

Arh they don't have one to start with then . Still give Robert a call & tell him Scott silver GSXR sent ya !

[SlowHand]

Got to wonder, what does "too heavy and big for me" mean?

Can't bench, must knaw arm in the morn.

[NhuanH]

Zapf,

Do you demo the bikes you buy? Just that in your 2/3 years of riding, you've bought many new bikes? More than I've bought underwear - and yes, I've updated the drawer's drawer.

As for steering damper, you yourself have said you now intend on a touring focus. A damper is not warranted.

Regardless, a bike of Fireblade lineage won't suit you because they are in the same general mould as a GSXR750 - a bike you have already bought and sold, dismissed as not suitable.

A VFR800 or Triumph Sprint is the kind of thing you want. Do you think these companies spend millions on R&D just for kicks? So more enlightened consumers like you can second guess them and try to make a sports bike a tourer and then bemoan it's lack of touring features?

"Fit for purpose" springs to mind.

[Toast]

Regardless, a bike of Fireblade lineage won't suit you because they are in the same general mould as a GSXR750 - a bike you have already bought and sold, dismissed as not suitable.
.

These things aren't nearly as hardcore as a Gix750. Not much slower point to point, and maybe better on the road, but quite relaxed if you want them to be (I'm talking 929/954 here, the 92 Blade was apparently an animal).

I agree that for straight touring a viffer would be a way better choice...

I guess it depends on exactly the combination of blast/touring that you want...

[cowpoos]

These things aren't nearly as hardcore as a Gix750. Not much slower point to point, and maybe better on the road,

errr....so is the the hon-duh faster than a gixxer or not???

[Toast]

errr....so is the the hon-duh faster than a gixxer or not???

Ofcourse it is :)

[cowpoos]

Ofcourse it is :)
when's our race then....road....track...commuting...you name it....its on bitch!!!



ps: buy that extra ticket for the shaun harris track day thingy....I'll learn ya hon-duh there!

[Zapf]

Arh they don't have one to start with then . Still give Robert a call & tell him Scott silver GSXR sent ya !

thanks... call him tomorrow rain or shin :)

[Zapf]

Zapf,

Do you demo the bikes you buy? Just that in your 2/3 years of riding, you've bought many new bikes? More than I've bought underwear - and yes, I've updated the drawer's drawer.

As for steering damper, you yourself have said you now intend on a touring focus. A damper is not warranted.

Regardless, a bike of Fireblade lineage won't suit you because they are in the same general mould as a GSXR750 - a bike you have already bought and sold, dismissed as not suitable.

A VFR800 or Triumph Sprint is the kind of thing you want. Do you think these companies spend millions on R&D just for kicks? So more enlightened consumers like you can second guess them and try to make a sports bike a tourer and then bemoan it's lack of touring features?

"Fit for purpose" springs to mind.

I blast more than I tour, but I like the more comfy and luggage carrying ability of tourers... anyway.... if that is how often I buy new bikes.. you can bet I have very clean underwear.

I just took the 954 out for a ride, and find that the short reach to the bars enables a reasonablely up right position when required. And the bike feels as small as a 636 or 600 cc bike... no where as much a reach to bars as the GSXR or have to be hunched over for it to handle properly.

but you can see... I am hard to please...

[Toast]

when's our race then....road....track...commuting...you name it....its on bitch!!!



ps: buy that extra ticket for the shaun harris track day thingy....I'll learn ya hon-duh there!

If you're up in Akl early August, bring it to the Coromandel, I should have a WOF'able tyre by then.

I had a ticket, but had to sell it, 'cos my inconsiderate brother decided to get married in Boston on the same day...fuckin ridiculous!

You'll get your chance Poosie, don't worry...you'd better be able to bring more than 1:11 at Puke too...why so slow that day? I've got some guesses but won't say it in public :)

[cowpoos]

If you're up in Akl early August, bring it to the Coromandel,

2hrs from papakura to coromandal township.....turning right at kopu...first time ever...and damp roads under the trees etc....wicked road!!! absaloutly wicked!!!

[Toast]

2hrs from papakura to coromandal township.....turning right at kopu...first time ever...and damp roads under the trees etc....wicked road!!! absaloutly wicked!!!

Sounds like it'll be a fair fight then...

Gentleman's rules, ofcourse :)

[cowpoos]

Sounds like it'll be a fair fight then...

Gentleman's rules, ofcourse :)
what are gentalmans rules bro?

[Toast]

what are gentalmans rules bro?

Fuck, I dunno, heard it on tv once, I just say it all the time now...

[cowpoos]

Fuck, I dunno, heard it on tv once, I just say it all the time now...
fair call.....you mind if I use it too?

[Zed]

I just took the 954 out for a ride, and find that the short reach to the bars enables a reasonablely up right position when required. And the bike feels as small as a 636 or 600 cc bike... no where as much a reach to bars as the GSXR or have to be hunched over for it to handle properly.

but you can see... I am hard to please...That is precisely the reason I ditched my Gixxer750 for a Blade back in '95, the GSXR gave me cramps in my hips and knees after being on the bike for an hour and the Blade felt like a lazy-boy in comparison...owned 4 CBR's since that time because of the comfort factor. Seems I am hard to please too Mr Zapf! :innocent:

[Toast]

fair call.....you mind if I use it too?

Sure man, that's cool...but the effect is better if you're in your top hat and tails, sipping a port when you say it...sitting there in stubbies and a swanny with a DB in your hand which has just helped a cow to give birth sorta kills the 'Around the World in 80 days' image that the a user of the saying is trying to cook up.

Anyway...I'm gonna learn ya.

[Zapf]

1st ride around Coro loop on the 954

My impression of the 954 around Coro.

Very stable... if some what slower transition from side to side (Comparo with GSXR750 or CB900 Hornet). Maybe due to the 190 rear tire.

Head shake? none.... well planted, only had a wiggle. Gone as quick as it arrived.

Suspension... very nice... I think the best factory suspension I have had of all the bikes I had.

After setting my front preload 9 turns from soft and rear preload to position 4 today.... its great. Just need to play with damping now

Power... nice power.... lots of mid range, only used it up to 6~7k rpm today.

Friendly.... Only had the bike since last Thursday and I am more comfortable with it than the Gixxer after 2 months.

Space.... shit loads of cargo space for "things" under that rear seat

Heat.... bike heats up quickly in traffic... and it warms up the underside of your thigs nicely too... (good for winter)

Fuel usage... 11.44 L of 91 for 190km around the Coroloop. Not bad.

Overall I have to say... I am very happy with it and its the best bike I've had so far :)

[Zed]

Overall I have to say... I am very happy with it and its the best bike I've had so far :)Excellent most noble Felix, i'm not at all surprised!

And don't worry mate, a little bit more work & effort on that transition from side to side and she'll be up to speed with the others, it was the lightest Blade ever produced at 168kgs dry, even the '06 is 176kgs! :yes:

So where are the pics pal??

[Zapf]

Excellent most noble Felix, i'm not at all surprised!

And don't worry mate, a little bit more work & effort on that transition from side to side and she'll be up to speed with the others, it was the lightest Blade ever produced at 168kgs dry, even the '06 is 176kgs! :yes:

So where are the pics pal??

Here.... more and (BETTER) to come

[boomer]

fair call.....you mind if I use it too?

sif your a gentleman

[Zapf]

Nice photos attached.