OK legal beagles --figure this one

[FROSTY]

A biker is cruising along minding his own business. Theyr'e following a cage
Cage driver opens their window and flicks out a cigarette butt-still lit.
Bikers visor is open and the but hits them in the eye.
Blinded the biker swerves violently and crashes into a parked car.
What if anything could the cager be prosecuted for?
Allowing of course that the incident was witnessed by a JP

[Karma]

Not much...

Littering perhaps?

Not sure if you could prove causing an accident as the driver had no idea that his action would lead to the end result.

[Madness]

Littering??

I doubt wether there are any littering provisions in transport law other than those relating to insecure loads.

[SwanTiger]

Wouldn't this be considered the same as throwing a block of concrete off a Motorway overpass or a glass bottle out the window of a car?

I'm not sure what the legal definition is, but those would have to be 'acts' of similar nature which in the past have been severly prosecuted.

[jazbug5]

Could they argue that the rider was partly to blame for riding with their visor open..?

[Da Bird]

Littering??

I doubt wether there are any littering provisions in transport law other than those relating to insecure loads.

Yes, there is actually. There is an infringement fine of $100.00 for littering. Only used it myself a few times - when people get upset and throw their ticket on the ground, they are given the option of picking it up or copping another $100.00... some people just don't learn.

[Da Bird]

In answer to the main question, there are a couple of possible charges but getting the evidence to the point of "beyond reasonable doubt" could be an uphill battle.

There is a charge of Endangering Transport (carries 14 years imprisonment) which is a possibility or it could possibly fall under Careless Driving. Have never come across a situation like this so you might be able to create some case law!

[Madness]

Yes, there is actually. There is an infringement fine of $100.00 for littering. only used it myself a few times - when people get upset and throw their ticket on the ground, they are given the option of picking it up or copping another $100.00... some people just don't learn.

I smoke a pack a day, mostly in the cage and never ever use the inboard ash-tray. Now knowing it's illegal will possibly make the act even more enjoyable, knowing I'm a crim & all......:doobey:

[Edbear]

Could they argue that the rider was partly to blame for riding with their visor open..?



Nup! Same as driving with your window open.

[Oakie]

Didn't there used to be an offence 'Depositing Dangerous Material' or something like that? At least it's more serious than littering.

[jazbug5]

Good point, Edbear- just wondered if it was a possible let-out.

And Maximus- I hope you're joking. I hate filthy b*st*rding folk that chuck rubbish about the place. Once returned a whole load of junk to someone through their open window when I was on the treadly. Almost worth being chased, just for the look on theor stoopid faces... *snigger*

[Karma]

Yes, there is actually. There is an infringement fine of $100.00 for littering. Only used it myself a few times - when people get upset and throw their ticket on the ground, they are given the option of picking it up or copping another $100.00... some people just don't learn.

Woo hoo!!!

Weasel wins again!

[vtec]

Well I would have thought, that negligent disposal of a cigarette butt would make them responsible for all damage subsequently caused by it. Such as dropping a cigarette butt on the floor in someones house causing it to burn down. Responsible for costs. But as far as criminal charges go, I'm not sure. Personally would think it could be under reckless endangerment causing injury?? Not sure really. Would hope the cops might know.

[FROSTY]

well then mr fuckwit rav 4 driver. If Id got ya fucking number on hobby road as you yacked on ya celly and flipped your butt into my eyes...........

[Ixion]

Criminal law or civil law?

There may be no statute law specifically applicable, but the common law will provide a remedy in both cases.

The civil suit is easier. Throwing a lighted cigarette out a window is manifestly negligent. If my property or person (subject to the bar under ACC) be injured by the negligence of another I may sue him for damages.

For there to be a criminal offence the negligence must amount to recklessness. Not only must the perpetrator be careless , the consequences of the carelessness must be foreseeable to a reasonable man (Here, the difference to civil law. If you are careless and I suffer as a result, I may sue you, even though you could not foree the damage that would result. In civil law it will be no avail to say "But I never thought that would happen" )

Since a motorist is required by law to maintain a watch in his mirrors, he must be assumed to have known you were there . (If he disclaims such knowledge then he stands convicted by his own words) .

To negligently throw a hazardous object from his vehicle , knowing that there was a person in the near vicinity who might be injured is recklessness. He was negligent and the consequences would have been apparent to a reasonable man, but he recked not thereof. Reckless endangerment is an offence in common law.

As always, the devil is in the detail. IANAL.

[SwanTiger]

well then mr fuckwit rav 4 driver. If Id got ya fucking number on hobby road as you yacked on ya celly and flipped your butt into my eyes...........

If you are going to follow the matter up with the Police then I'm sure a few of us would be happy in helping you track down the driver.

More often than not that same person will use that particular route every day.

Can you identify the driver or distinguish certain things about the vehicle?

[skidMark]

geez frosty first a chain and now this your not having very good luck lately...does this make you a chain smoker????:doobey:

[ZeroIndex]

two words: RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT

[sAsLEX]

I smoke a pack a day, mostly in the cage and never ever use the inboard ash-tray. Now knowing it's illegal will possibly make the act even more enjoyable, knowing I'm a crim & all......:doobey:

You sir are a cunt! You openly litter our country like ever other cancer stick sucking homo out there.

I was throughly dissapointed in myself the other day, as I pulled up to the lights some rich slug of a man dropped his still lit fag from his window on to the ground, I still regret not stopping and flicking it back through the open window! Cause next time I will, even if I have to stop pick it up then chase them down.

Lazy fucks the lot of ya!

[SARGE]

Good point, Edbear- just wondered if it was a possible let-out.

And Maximus- I hope you're joking. I hate filthy b*st*rding folk that chuck rubbish about the place. Once returned a whole load of junk to someone through their open window when I was on the treadly. Almost worth being chased, just for the look on theor stoopid faces... *snigger*




hell... i chuck shit out the window all the time.. bricks.. animal pelts, whiskey bottles..parking tickets..cigar butts..


never once had an issue


by the way .. us smokers will outlive you 'pink-lunged weenies' by a long time as the air pollution gets worse.. our lungs have a safe coating of tar and goo to protect it from the exhaust fumes


i seriously pray that someone will try and kick my ass for polluting 'your' air.. ...


really... its the only way i will learn... :whistle: :Pokey:

[Quartida]

Could they argue that the rider was partly to blame for riding with their visor open..?

Nup! Same as driving with your window open.

Though it must be noted that the Road Code for motorcyclists does point out that a visor is useful in protecting the face from flying objects. Today, a cigarette butt. Tomorrow, a chip from the road. And who is there to blame then?

[ogr1]

I would have thought that the said driver could be charged for.........
1 Driving without due care and attention, (did'nt check his mirrors).
2 Leaving the scene of an accident, (he caused it).
3 Littering, (was his ashtray full?).
4 Dangerous driving.
5 Probably another charge for smoking shit whilst behind the wheel.

My own = Abscent minded (being a complete knob jocky).

[John]

You sir are a cunt! You openly litter our country like ever other cancer stick sucking homo out there.
Lazy fucks the lot of ya!

give us our econmy back, and give us our jobs back.:mad:

[inlinefour]

Get a live ciggy butt thrown at ya causing physical harm? Littering...

Smash the drivers mirror from the side of the offenders vehicle? Get in the shit...

NZ's justice system, go figure...

:angry:

[Squeak the Rat]

A biker is cruising along minding his own business. Theyr'e following a cage
Cage driver opens their window and flicks out a cigarette butt-still lit.
Bikers visor is open and the but hits them in the eye.
Blinded the biker swerves violently and crashes into a parked car.
What if anything could the cager be prosecuted for?
Allowing of course that the incident was witnessed by a JP

Ummmmm, are you ok (again) frosty?

[Lou Girardin]

If the cops can get home on a charge of sedition in this day and age, they could romp in with 'endangering transport'.
I think you'd have to hit Helen in the eye though.

[Jonty]

Well if the bike was damaged then a criminal charge (or minor infringement) was imposed it isn't going to given much comfort to the biker. In my view, without the benefit of delving into my books at present (busy day) I would have a go and a civil action for negligence and possibly even nuisance. For those legal buffs out there, I am referring to the rule in Rylands & Fletcher below:


"We think that the true rule of law is, that the person who for his own purposes brings on his lands and collects and keeps there anything likely to do mischief if it escapes, must keep it in at his peril, and if he does not do so, is prima facie answerable for all the damage which is the natural consequence of its escape…"


This rule has been applied in relation to interferring radio waves, water and countless other annoying "discharges". That said, without the benefit of reasearch I am not sure if the courts have extended the application to discharges from cars. Still, I agree with Ixion that an action for negligence is on the cards but the element of forseeability wil be the likely downfall.
J

[skidMark]

OMG were you on ginny :gob:

or is she no longer yours?

[sunhuntin]

what about similar situation, but cig butt coming from an oncoming car? had that happen before, luckily no accident resulting, but could have lost an eye [open road speeds from both vehicles. i was wearing sunnies]

frosty....i think the message being sent to you right now is the same as what hitchers being told.

[spudchucka]

What if anything could the cager be prosecuted for?
Depositing dangerous litter.

Litter Act or Summary Offences Act, one or tother should cover it.

[merv]

It only reinforces my opinion of smokers given what you have told us on this thread Frosty. Words like inconsiderate, arrogant and filthy come to mind. If they weren't those things they wouldn't even dream of throwing a butt out the window.

[ManDownUnder]

At the risk of putting a spanner in the works...I hapen to know you engage in a little splitting from time to time (only in emergencies of course)...

...this wasn't one of those special emergency times was it?

Because if you were performing an illegal manoevre that might taint things... or it might not. Dunno... but it's something t consider before involving Mr Plod, Mrs Plod and the Plod family reinforcement systems (The Judge family)

MDU

[Madness]

You sir are a cunt! You openly litter our country like ever other cancer stick sucking homo out there........

...........Lazy fucks the lot of ya!

I take strong exception to being called a homo. Otherwise you're on the money.:nya: :nya:

[Macktheknife]

You sir are a cunt! You openly litter our country like ever other cancer stick sucking homo out there.

Lazy fucks the lot of ya!
Gee Sas, dont hold back, tell us what you really think.
Besides are you sure that calling someone a cunt isnt really kind of lame? I mean there are so many better insults around, why not go for something a bit more demeaning?
People just dont put the effort into insults that they should nowadays. :nya:

[skidMark]

i was waiting for you to break into ....when i was a boyyyy.....

[The Pastor]

A biker is cruising along minding his own business. Theyr'e following a cage
Cage driver opens their window and flicks out a cigarette butt-still lit.
Bikers visor is open and the but hits them in the eye.
Blinded the biker swerves violently and crashes into a parked car.
What if anything could the cager be prosecuted for?
Allowing of course that the incident was witnessed by a JP


Happend to me, more than once (getting hit with a lit stub, not crashing...)


Just reminds me to STAY BACK FROM CAGERS....