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fpsware
21st May 2004, 22:08
Just wondering if anyone has any expierence with the police and using neon lights under their car / bike. You know the ones, the boy racers get from the Warehouse for $21 that plug into the cigerate lighter.

Are they legal?

Zed
21st May 2004, 22:27
Just wondering if anyone has any expierence with the police and using neon lights under their car / bike. You know the ones, the boy racers get from the Warehouse for $21 that plug into the cigerate lighter.

Are they legal?
If they are they shouldn't be. I always thought that displaying blue lights on the front of a vehicle was illegal- I see it alot on the bonnets, etc of cages these days! :sleep:


Zed

Jackrat
21st May 2004, 23:33
As far as I know they are illegal on the front of vehicules.
I think under car or under the gas tank of a bike is ok as long as the light its self can't be seen.The glow from them shining on the road or onto your engine on a bike seems ok but one of my nephews has had them removed and destroyed from inside his car by the law.

FzerozeroT
22nd May 2004, 06:51
I've seen a custom GSXR1000 in dayglo yellow and a yellow neon under the rear guard, very nice. Now, where can I get a green neon?

Motu
22nd May 2004, 08:19
They used to be illeagal,but now they are leagal - at least the wording that was used to fail them has been removed,the LTSA moves in mysterious ways.

If a cop finds a way to make them illeagal it's his call,but will need to be able to back it up by pointing to some written clause.

I always note they are fitted - if attached to a cig lighter I pull it out.Best I have seen is a halogen headlamp bulb welded to the exhaust pipe.

marty
22nd May 2004, 10:32
i did a lot of research into these when i was in the job.


any colour other than red can be displayed to the front - white, green, blue, orange, as long as it does not 'detract the observer from the direction the car is travelling in'. the only colours that can be displayed to the rear is red or orange - white in reverse only. if the wash from a light of other colour can be seen from the rear (blue/green neon, white number plate light etc) then it is ok, as long as the source cannot be seen, and the wash of that light again does not detract the observer from the direction that the vehcile is travelling in.

A Toad 2
22nd May 2004, 19:06
as far as safety is concerned i recon the more light the better as long as u dont blind people or make them think u are heading the wrong way besides they look cool. :sunny:

fpsware
22nd May 2004, 19:41
I've seen a custom GSXR1000 in dayglo yellow and a yellow neon under the rear guard, very nice. Now, where can I get a green neon?
Warehouse, $19.95. The one in Tauranga has 3 sizes, 60cm, 20cm & 10cm (approx size).

You can get a 5mtr length of cable, 2 x 20cm lights, a switch and cable ties for under $50. So I've heard. :rolleyes:

fpsware
22nd May 2004, 19:43
i did a lot of research into these when i was in the job.


any colour other than red can be displayed to the front - white, green, blue, orange, as long as it does not 'detract the observer from the direction the car is travelling in'. the only colours that can be displayed to the rear is red or orange - white in reverse only. if the wash from a light of other colour can be seen from the rear (blue/green neon, white number plate light etc) then it is ok, as long as the source cannot be seen, and the wash of that light again does not detract the observer from the direction that the vehcile is travelling in.
Thank you VERY much. Thats exactly what I was looking for..... now, where did I put my soldering iron.

Antallica
22nd May 2004, 21:59
Also it might be a good idea to look into proper neons, as the light that the warehouse neons emit is absolute crap compared to a Streetglow or a normal PC Neon.

I know, I'm running a warehouse neon in my pc case.

fpsware
22nd May 2004, 22:26
From the horses mouth (LTSA web site)


‘Cosmetic’ lamps

‘Cosmetic’ lamps do not have a functional purpose, but are fitted to vehicles for aesthetic reasons. There are certain safety risks associated with these lamps, and the current law is unclear about whether they can be fitted to vehicles.

Current law and vehicle lighting conventions

When the Traffic Regulations came into force in 1976, only a limited range of vehicle lighting equipment was available, and it is unclear how the regulations apply to the range of lamps that are available today. The regulations tightly control the performance and fitting of each type of functional lamp (such as headlamps, stop lamps and fog lamps), but they are silent on the requirements for lamps that do not fit into these categories.

The Traffic Regulations arguably allow cosmetic lamps to be fitted provided that they meet certain criteria. These are very broad, and do not control the number of lamps that may be fitted, their colour if fitted to the front or sides of a vehicle, their brightness, or how they must be positioned. This has led to confusion and uncertainty over what types of cosmetic lamps are allowed.

There are internationally agreed conventions about vehicle lighting which have been developed over the past century. These conventions allow vehicle lighting equipment to impart information about a vehicle's orientation (white lights indicate the front while red lights indicate the rear), its approximate size and dimensions, its position on the road and its likely future movements (whether the vehicle is going to turn, slow down or stop). Road users have a clear set of expectations of vehicle lighting, which allow them to react appropriately and swiftly in an emergency.

Cosmetic lighting sits outside these conventions. In New Zealand and abroad, legislation has not kept pace with this new technology and there are no standards for these lamps.

Safety concerns

There is a lack of information available that specifically relates to the safety risks posed by cosmetic lamps. This is likely to be because cosmetic lamps are a relatively new phenomenon and have not been in use for very long.

Internationally, cosmetic lamps are regarded as an emerging safety concern. The greatest risk is associated with very bright lamps, which can dazzle other road users and reduce the visibility of other vehicles or pedestrians. Dazzle is a significant safety issue, which causes discomfort, annoyance, fatigue, and a reduction in visual performance (temporary blindness). The brightness or intensity of the light, its position and angle and its distance away from the observer affects the severity of dazzle.<SUP>21</SUP> The LTSA has received many complaints about dazzling lighting equipment over the years, and this issue was raised in submissions on the red draft of this Rule.

<SUP>21</SUP> Douglas Mace, Philip Garvey, Richard J. Porter, Richard Schwab, Werner Adrian.,Countermeasures for Reducing the Effects of Headlight Glare, The AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety, December 2001.

Since cosmetic lamps do not fit the expected conventions, there is a risk that they could confuse or distract other road users or be confused with traffic signals or the lighting equipment fitted to emergency service vehicles. Research also indicates that lamps have the potential to 'mask' or interfere with the effectiveness of these lights mandatory lighting equipment (such as stop lamps and direction-indicator lamps) if they are positioned too close.<SUP>22</SUP>

<SUP>22</SUP> Sivak, M., Flannagan, M.J., Schoettle, B., and Nakata, Y., Simultaneous masking of front turn signals by headlamps and other front lamps, The University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute (Report No. UMTRI-2000-44) November 2000.

The current legal position creates a loophole that, if taken advantage of, would present a considerable risk. Anecdotal evidence suggests that cosmetic lamps will increase in popularity, and the trend overseas seems to be towards cosmetic lighting that pushes the boundaries of safety. The LTSA believes that it is important to review and address any potential risks to safety that this equipment might pose.

New safety requirements proposed in the Rule

The draft Rule proposes to allow cosmetic lamps (referred to in the Rule as “lamps that are not otherwise specified in the rule”) to be fitted provided that they comply with certain safety requirements.


Lamps that emit diffuse light (for example, neon-tube lighting) are less likely to cause dazzle than lamps that emit a concentrated beam of light. In order to control the risk of dazzle, the Rule proposes that the light emitted from these lamps must be diffuse.
Lamps are also less likely to dazzle, distract or confuse if the light source is not directly visible to other road users (for example, under-car lights). The Rule proposes to restrict the angles of visibility of these lamps to ensure that they do not directly impact on the field of vision of other road users (see illustration).
In order to ensure that cosmetic lights do not interfere with the effectiveness of signal lights, the draft Rule proposes that they must not be positioned within 250 mm of any mandatory lighting equipment.
In order to prevent confusion about the direction that a vehicle is facing, the draft Rule proposes that these lamps must not cause confusion as to the orientation of the vehicle. Section 2 of the draft Rule also states that red light must not be visible from the front of a vehicle, and that lamps must not emit light other than red or amber to the rear of a vehicle.
The draft Rule also proposes to prohibit lamps that dazzle, confuse or distract other road users. This would allow the Police to control any grossly unsafe lighting equipment on road.
Should the Rule control the colour of cosmetic lights?

The LTSA is unaware of any studies looking specifically at cosmetic lamps, but there are concerns about the potential for coloured lights to confuse or distract other road users. For example, research indicates that blue light is more likely to cause dazzle than other colours of light.<SUP>23</SUP> There is also anecdotal evidence that red and blue lights can be confused with the lights on emergency vehicles.

<SUP>23</SUP> Sullivan, J.M. and Flannagan, M.J. Visual Effects of Blue-Tinted Tungsten-Halogen Headlamp Bulbs, Report No. UMTRI-2001-9, April 2001.

The LTSA is interested in any further information about the safety risks posed by these lamps, and on whether any further restrictions would be appropriate.

Questions for consideration:


Should the Rule include further restrictions on the colour of cosmetic lamps?
Are there any other ways in which the Rule should control the fitting of cosmetic lamps?
Changes proposed in section 10


A wider range of ‘work lamps’ may be fitted to motor vehicles of Groups M, N, T and vehicles not in Table A.

Comment is also invited on whether other vehicles, such as motorcycles, should be allowed to fit these lamps.

Vehicles of Group L manufactured on or after the Rule comes into force must meet a component standard for front fog lamps, rear fog lamps, daytime running lamps and reversing lamps.

Front fog lamps, rear fog lamps, daytime running lamps and reversing lamps must comply with a standard if they are retrofitted to a vehicle (i.e. fitted post-manufacture) on or after 1 April 2005.

Cosmetic lamps may be fitted to vehicles provided they comply with certain safety requirements.

Ghost Lemur
22nd May 2004, 22:51
From the horses mouth (LTSA web site)


Shouldn't that be ass' mouth?

pete376403
22nd May 2004, 23:22
Just to show that theres nothing new, years ago (I mean YEARS ago) a vehicle had to display a blue light at the front if it was towing a trailer (obviously at night). I remember asking my dad about this on this Bradford van

Cajun
24th May 2004, 10:04
I had some of those gay blue boy racer light thingys that they plug in to cig ligther wired up on the ram air slots on gsxr1100(did have ram air so didn't really matter) The thing i noticed is people saw me and the bike more, and moved out of the way. We did get a blue neon from super cheap autos to put in under father in laws bmw but couldn't find much room to put it, he as some of those flashy light things on his tire valve caps tho.

I had the blue lights on for a good 6 months before i sold the bike never got pulled over, i had them hard wired up to headlight wire, so as soon as headlight was on the blue lights were on, got them from fleamarket in auckland for like $10, i am thinking of maybe getting a neon for under the 600, cause can't put any lights in ram air, cause the 600 needs all the ram air space it can get.


But remember alot of the trucks and what so have you have blue lights in the front of them.

fpsware
24th May 2004, 20:20
I had some of those gay blue boy racer light thingys that they plug in to cig ligther wired up on the ram air slots on gsxr1100(did have ram air so didn't really matter) The thing i noticed is people saw me and the bike more, and moved out of the way. We did get a blue neon from super cheap autos to put in under father in laws bmw but couldn't find much room to put it, he as some of those flashy light things on his tire valve caps tho.

I had the blue lights on for a good 6 months before i sold the bike never got pulled over, i had them hard wired up to headlight wire, so as soon as headlight was on the blue lights were on, got them from fleamarket in auckland for like $10, i am thinking of maybe getting a neon for under the 600, cause can't put any lights in ram air, cause the 600 needs all the ram air space it can get.


But remember alot of the trucks and what so have you have blue lights in the front of them.
I've put 2 x Green neons on either side at the rear, and I have 1 x Neon on the left front, I'll be putting one on the right front when I get time, and if I can somehow make a bracket, I'll be putting one underneath the bike also. I've got it running from the main lights also, but I have a switch under the fairing just in case someone (the police) object.

I thought having 2 on the back would make it quite bright, but its not too bad at all. Its certainly noticable and draws attention. I'm not keen on the boyracers / dickheads that pull up beside me at the lights and scream out their window.

Cajun
24th May 2004, 20:44
yeah i would be interested in getting a yellow if possible to put under my bike

Blueblader
15th November 2004, 13:54
I have blue neons on my bike and valve caps. They are legal and the police up here think they're a good idea because it improves visability. They're really cool too! :buggerd:

scumdog
15th November 2004, 16:20
Just to show that theres nothing new, years ago (I mean YEARS ago) a vehicle had to display a blue light at the front if it was towing a trailer (obviously at night). I remember asking my dad about this on this Bradford van

I still have two of those lights, not sure yet what to use them on - possibly my '37 V8 coupe.

Never did figure WHAT safety value the were meant to have - any ideas??

sAsLEX
15th November 2004, 16:43
so you know the vehicle is longer and to not cut around the back to close maybe?? only thing i could think of

Sniper
15th November 2004, 18:08
i did a lot of research into these when i was in the job.


any colour other than red can be displayed to the front - white, green, blue, orange, as long as it does not 'detract the observer from the direction the car is travelling in'. the only colours that can be displayed to the rear is red or orange - white in reverse only. if the wash from a light of other colour can be seen from the rear (blue/green neon, white number plate light etc) then it is ok, as long as the source cannot be seen, and the wash of that light again does not detract the observer from the direction that the vehcile is travelling in.

Very correct Marty. I was just chatting to the VTNZ guys today when I took a cage in for a COF (Cert of Fitness) and they pretty much just said that.

It should be illegal and we should be able ride/(drive??) around without having a rainbow follow us, AT NIGHT!!!

All I can say is, you DOLTS!!!! :Oi:

But thats only my opinion, you dont have to agree on me with that one :Punk:

Hitman
16th November 2004, 09:53
Anybody got any pics of their bikes with neons on? Ive got leds inside the front and rear guard. No fairings on the back, but when they're back on u cant see the leds. I have to straighen a few of the leds up too, so i dont have big spots on the wheels.
http://img112.exs.cx/img112/2692/DSC00138.jpg

Sniper
16th November 2004, 14:56
Anybody got any pics of their bikes with neons on? Ive got leds inside the front and rear guard. No fairings on the back, but when they're back on u cant see the leds. I have to straighen a few of the leds up too, so i dont have big spots on the wheels.
http://img112.exs.cx/img112/2692/DSC00138.jpg

Hmmm, looks cool. :Oops:

scumdog
16th November 2004, 16:14
Very correct Marty. I was just chatting to the VTNZ guys today when I took a cage in for a COF (Cert of Fitness) and they pretty much just said that.

It should be illegal and we should be able ride/(drive??) around without having a rainbow follow us, AT NIGHT!!!

All I can say is, you DOLTS!!!! :Oi:

But thats only my opinion, you dont have to agree on me with that one :Punk:

You utter fuddy-duddy, what are you going to be like when you get to be OLD? :wacko:
Lighten up, what REAL harm are they doing? (apart from burning out you over sensitive retinas!) :cool2:

Sniper
17th November 2004, 09:57
You utter fuddy-duddy, what are you going to be like when you get to be OLD? :wacko:
Lighten up, what REAL harm are they doing? (apart from burning out you over sensitive retinas!) :cool2:

Ok, I may be young but Im just not into those things, I like to be different. :first:

I am Milky
21st November 2004, 20:08
i got told by da pigs dey r fine as long as dey can't see da bulb :rockon: