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kickingzebra
16th June 2006, 13:24
Caution, rant of some nature to follow.

OK, I work in the construction industirisery, was a builder, now a quantity surveyor.
Part of the ethos with commercial construction is these stupid little high vis vests, and safety helmets.

OK, So I go to site this morning, to measure up all the variation work (damn lazy architects on this job).
On site one has to wear safety vests and hats, moot point. The hast are useless too, but that is a different story.
To save myself the scunge and kootis of having to wear a well used vest from on site, I wear my own brand new, reflective tape, day and night rated vest.

It is not greasy or oily, or dirty in any way as to impunge upon the brightness of said vest.

Upon leaving site, I threw the vest on over top of my leather jacket (because I couldn't be bothered sticking it anywhere else) and indicate (going very slowly, road is covered in mud and sand)

Lady in a honda accord, looks right at me, and pulls out in front of me. Saw she was going to do it, so was already on the brakes, and over to the left of the road. Half way through the turn, she sees me, stops dead center of the road with her hand over her mouth in obvious horror.

I carried on my way, she probably has a puddle in her seat to remind her to look more carefully.

then less than a K down the road, Killarny and greenwood intersection, I indicate, am very upright (I never trust that roundabout) and going fairly slow.
Next second bloody great falcodore pulls out, barely 3 feet off my front wheel. I look him in the eye as I stop, then ride around him and carry on.

My contention therefore is this. Hi Vis vests are COMPLETELY USELESS.

I don't have that problem anywhere near as often when I am not wearing one, sure occasionally, but if they ain't looking, it won't matter what the hell you are wearing.

The guy in the falcodore looked terribly indignant that i should be there, right when he wants to pull out, but maybe the lady learnt her lesson.

As for vests, bugger that crap, I'll just try and catch their attention by being menacing in black leathers.

What are your thought people?

Str8 Jacket
16th June 2006, 13:26
My contention therefore is this. Hi Vis vests are COMPLETELY USELESS.



OR they work etremely well and those drivers saw you coming a mile off and thought "YES! One more bloody biker off the road!"

kickingzebra
16th June 2006, 13:27
OR they work etremely well and those drivers saw you coming a mile off and thought "YES! One more bloody biker off the road!"

Thats would mean the Lady actually wanted to wet herself?!

Str8 Jacket
16th June 2006, 13:29
Thats would mean the Lady actually wanted to wet herself?!

You'd be surprised mate!


Nah im sorry ive been having awful luck with "other road users" lately and it can make you quite nervous, which is not good for your riding!

kickingzebra
16th June 2006, 13:32
No harm done! Satire is great, It just surprised me, I ride every day, and then the one day I wear a vest, phychos come out to kill me!!

EDIT
I should say normally I lanesplit, and ride fairly offensively. The reason none of them got me is because I was expecting it... maybe it is a little too simplistic to blame it on the vest alone, but hell, I need a scapegoat and BS safety gear (especially when we make all those on our sites wear them) is a pretty good place to start!!

Str8 Jacket
16th June 2006, 13:39
No harm done! Satire is great, It just surprised me, I ride every day, and then the one day I wear a vest, phschos come out to kill me!!

He! One thing Ive learnt since Ive started riding is expect the unexpected! AND to be grateful that everytime you get home from riding around town that your in one peice!

madboy
16th June 2006, 13:40
I ride a black bike, and I'll be wearing either black leathers or black cordura with my black helmet. I speed, I lanesplit, I ride in all weather incl night time and rush hour every working day. I even ride with my licence label obscured sometimes - a capital offence it seems if you ever get pulled over. I can't say I have any more problems than anyone else with cars seeing me, or not. I think the key to survival is not what you ride, but how you ride it. A fine balance needs to be struck between a certain amount of aggression to make the cars show some respect, and a certain amount of defensiveness for those twats who are beyond help. Having wits to avoid the accident, and good gear for when you do bin will help more than any dayglo vest.

This is my opinion only - don't let this discourage any rider who wants to vest up. I'm just saying it's not for me.

SimJen
16th June 2006, 13:42
Don't forget Fieldays is on.....
Lots more shit drivers at the mo.

sunhuntin
16th June 2006, 15:36
i bought a hi-vis for night riding....i finish work at 7pm, and that means it may as well be midnight. i wore it for a while, but dont think it made much difference, so now dont bother.
i will wear it if the situation calls for it [ie, night and raining] just to increase my survival percentage.
but ive long been of the opinion, no matter how many lights or safety features of the same idea we have running, if they dont want to see us....they wont. we could hook up 10 sets of xmas lights and im sure they still would claim "i didnt see them!"

TerminalAddict
16th June 2006, 15:43
that k road greenwood st round about is getting a hammering on this site this week

gunnyrob
16th June 2006, 15:47
:Hell. if people can't see trains, what chance have we got. I just ride as if everyone is about to kill me, and if they do cut me off, the withering glare of doom puts 'em in their place.

kickingzebra
16th June 2006, 16:47
Withering glare of doom is only of limited value through a tinted visor:blip:
The other intersection for htose that know or care, was Duke street and ellis street, My site is down the southern end of duke. I turned right into ellis, having complete right of way.

Field days muppets might have something to do with it I suppose, good call.

Ixion
16th June 2006, 18:14
I (mostly) wear one. My take is, it's not infallible. But it may help. Sure, some idiots are so stupid they could lok at a super nova and not see it. But there's an intermediate range of idiots , who are too stupid to see a black jacket, but will see a day glo vest (mine is yellow/green- I think maybe they "see" that cos they think it may be a cop).

And: it costs bugger all ($5 per year, if you can't get one free from werk). It doesn't slow you down. It doesn't reduce fuel mileage. It doesn't wear tyres (or anything else) out more quickly

So, theres an (at least ) possible upside. And no down side whatsoever. So why WOULDN'T you wear one ? Even if the percentage extra surviveablity is small it;s not zero . And (apart from the possible $5 per year) the downside IS zero.

So , small possible upside, zero downside. Simple maths I think. So , why WOULDN'T you wear one?

kickingzebra
16th June 2006, 18:31
Its basically a rage against the machine concept - I hate them because they are required.
I suspect somebody one day thought, hmm, bright colours should make people easy to see, patented the idea and then (successfully) lobbied government etc to make them mandatory in so many fields.

The one thing to note here, is that in my looking thus far (fairly extensive) I have been unable to find one study that conclusively or otherwise points to the effectiveness of high vis vests in construction work. I view reflective tape for night use somewhat differently, as it is obvious that it works, but day time hi vis...
Nothing.

I suspect psychology has a lot to do with it, and people are so used to seeing hi vis vests etc on every second person, that they ignore them completely.

I would really like to find a study that does prove something about them, either way, because so far the whole idea seems completely unsubstantiated!

Jantar
16th June 2006, 18:34
The human brain is programmed to be aware of danger and potential threats. A high visibilty vest does not register as posing any threat, so although drivers may see it, it doesn't register. Someone dressed in black leathers, and black helmet though has that same driver's brain screaming "THREAT!!!". So though less visible black may be safer than bright colours.

Pathos
22nd June 2006, 00:37
I realised how useless they were recently when I saw a rider in town. Then I noticed he was wearing hi vis gear... the hi vis gear was a waste of time if it doesn't catch you're attention first.

There is no light reflecting off them unless the cars lights are aimed straight at you (which doesn't happen at intersections).

During the day they do not contrast with other reflections.

During the night they are blinded by your motorcycle lights anyway.


The work on the job because people move slower than bikes and people are concentrating on what they are doing not so much everyone else.

Gremlin
22nd June 2006, 01:55
On site one has to wear safety vests and hats, moot point. The hast are useless too, but that is a different story.
hmmm, slightly off topic, but a supervisor for another construction division scored a concrete monier tile to the head one day... so the hat may help you...

I go with the fear theory, if the vehicle is afraid of you, it will avoid you. So big biker in black gear, helmet etc, on big loud bike is good. :yes: Do I assume I ever get seen?? NOPE.

I don't rely on anything... if it helps, it was an unexpected bonus.

grandpa_dave
22nd June 2006, 08:25
I don't wear hi-vis as a rule. Used to have to wear them all the time at work and they're just annoying.
Maybe if you ride without your lights on a hi-vis would be important (Have seen this before) but me i'd just rather ride with my lights on. If someone doesn't see the glare of a headlight shining directly at them I doubt they would see the REFLECTED light off someone ELSES headlights shining at them either.
When riding you already have to wear so much shit to be safe anyway....boots, pants, gloves, jacket, helmet, then if it's cold a balaclava or something, now a hi-vis, then a backpack if you have to carry anything....
I tend to use other cars, particularly in Auckland, as a safety net around me, putting a truck and trailer in the lane beside you USUALLY means noone is going to charge through the intersection at that particular instance:yes:

Swoop
30th June 2006, 10:00
I'm in agreement with other posts here that are stating that the manner in which YOU ride is a major factor. An aggressive stance on the road to "dominate your lane", a loud bike, etc, etc. I find quite a few cagers moving aside when lanesplitting...
The yellow vest does seem to be regarded like the yellow L plates, and attracts unwanted attention. :angry:

A fine balance needs to be struck between a certain amount of aggression to make the cars show some respect, and a certain amount of defensiveness for those twats who are beyond help.
A good quote!
I however need to add that for those cagers beyond help, who need a good eye-surgeon, simply removing their wing-mirror gives them a reason to look out for bikes in future.

Zukin
30th June 2006, 10:21
a day glo vest (mine is yellow/green- I think maybe they "see" that cos they think it may be a cop).


Hi
I think you may have a very good point there!!
I now from my previous experience that whenever I see a green fluro vest/coat, I think "is that a cop"? I slow down or whatever it calls for, I often think damn another accident!!

So maybe we should get the vests the same as theirs (colour, style etc), the only difference being the word change from "Police" to "Please or Peace" in the same style??
Wear a white helmet to?
Now I dont think they would think we are trying to impersonate a police officer would they?

Just a thought.

Balding Eagle
18th July 2006, 09:10
I do wear one. I figure that if it helps one idiot see you then it is worthwhile. What I am trying to locate is a horn that I can fit to my bike that sounds like a Kenworth or MAC truck and I can scare the living daylights out of anyone who pulls out in front of me just because they are bigger. Can anyone help.:angry:

Str8 Jacket
18th July 2006, 09:51
I do wear one. I figure that if it helps one idiot see you then it is worthwhile. What I am trying to locate is a horn that I can fit to my bike that sounds like a Kenworth or MAC truck and I can scare the living daylights out of anyone who pulls out in front of me just because they are bigger. Can anyone help.:angry:

I have two air horns on my bike and they are LOUD! You can get them from Repco, sorry cant remember the price... They take a bit of work to install (my BF did mine) but from what I remember you may need to buy a fuse and some extra wires... Air horns are great!

PuppetMaster
19th July 2006, 11:06
When i see those riders with the fluro vests, the first thing I think is "NooB". And alot of the time Im right, I dont like riding near these people, they are unpredictable.

terbang
19th July 2006, 11:24
When i see those riders with the fluro vests, the first thing I think is "NooB". And alot of the time Im right, I dont like riding near these people, they are unpredictable.
Saw my neighbour, Grant wearing one the other day. He's a smart guy, rides competently though fast on a brand new ZX14 and has done a lot of track riding and racing in the past.
Hmm somehow "Noob" didn't spring to mind .. Whats the saying... 'dont judge a book by its cover'.

PuppetMaster
19th July 2006, 11:57
Saw my neighbour, Grant wearing one the other day. He's a smart guy, rides competently though fast on a brand new ZX14 and has done a lot of track riding and racing in the past.
Hmm somehow "Noob" didn't spring to mind .. Whats the saying... 'dont judge a book by its cover'.


True. But I dont know him, having a flash bike or having been on a race track doesnt mean he isnt a nooby. And really im only going by what ive seen, and thats small bikes, not great gear, but a nice bright vest. maybe it keeps them warm :)
Anyway, each to their own. Like someone else said, if it means some fagzor in a 4x wheel drive see's the vest and therefore the rider, its all good.

Falconer
19th July 2006, 14:37
My old BMW has a huge screen and top box so instead of jacket stuck hi vis tape on the top box and front body work.

acewheelie
19th July 2006, 15:15
I used to be involved in machinery parts, one day I'm doing to the fleet manager next to his nice bright shiny yellow HUGE Grader. The reason it was nice and shiny was it was just back from the panel bashers/ painters. On a nice day, with the flashing light on top, and painted bright yellow, some idiot cage driver still managed to hit it in the middle of a straight bit of road. People are blind.

The Pastor
19th July 2006, 19:32
The hi vis vests work, To prove this point I wore one to paintball. Ouch.


"hey look there he is, at the oppiste side of the field behind those trees, lets get him"