Completely Un-pc Vote

[wkid_one]

<PRE>Yes - I know this is the most socially irresponsible vote/thread </PRE><PRE>that I could come up with - but hey...I am interested in everyones</PRE><PRE>thoughts on this.........</PRE><PRE>&nbsp;</PRE>

[bluninja]

I would have said no in the UK, as the penalties for doing a runner are so severe compared to speeding, it's not really worth it. Here things seem different, and it almost seems part of the fast bike culture that you carry radar detectors, laser jammers, and do a runner if you are well over....as you are going to get banned anyway. So MAYBE, depends on if they are infront or behind me I suppose.

I best rehearse and setup my alibi anyway. You all know where I keep the keys to my bike don't you? So it could have been anyone on this forum riding my bike officer.

&nbsp;;)

TTFN

[Slim]

I don't ride well enough/fast enough to even think about attempting a runner.

[Gixxer]

on my last ticket anyway so even if I was under 50k I might think about it, like bluninja, would depend if in front or behind.

[Coldkiwi]

aye.. very dependant on traffic etc. I rate myself as pretty quick through the cars (I pratice for an hour each day!) so if it was near traffic I'd probably have a shot at it.

Likewise on the road conditions/how well I knew them.

Hard to say of course because you'd need to decide pretty damn quickly if you saw the disco lights and didn't want to dance for plod.

[bikerboy]

Wouldn't it be easier to stop, then say you don't have any ID, and give a false name, etc.?

Not that I'm condoning any illegal action including speeding, honest your Honour!:cool:

[Kiwi]

50 km/h over???? I never go over 100 :done:

[bikerboy]

:D That's more like 100 MPH !

[Goddess of Goof]

Would if I could but I can't so I won't.

But I wouldn't hesitate to take off my helmet
slowly and shake out my hair and put on
my most winning smile .....

Oh dear officer, was that really me you were after?
Yep.
Are you sure ? seductively removing my jacket and draping
it over my motorbike's rear end.
Yep.
Then what is my bike rego officer? Guileless smile and
seductive pose.
Uh? Don't know.
Then it couldn't have been me, offficer, it must have been
one of those other fast sportsbike riders .....

That's my theory, anyway. Never put it to the test, unfortunately...

[Slim]

Newfun - I haven't got off a speeding ticket in many years, using the "female" card, unfortunately! And while most of my encounters with our country's finest :rolleyes: have been good, I recently had a rather bad experience ...


I had decided to head up to Auckland to talk to a man about some tyres. I had a lovely day, taking any & all back roads possible to get to Auckland, talking tyres with the tyre man (Bridgestones are getting hard to find :( ) and calling in to visit with my Dad before heading back home on the main drag cos it was fish & chip night at home & I didn't want to be late.

I'd just got through the last of the roadworks south of Meremere and due to the knowledge that this area is heavily patrolled, I stick to the speed limits pretty closely, and 110kph as the speed you can get away with in the 100kph areas.

So I've finally managed to quit the 50kph roadworks & shot up to 110kph, leaving a load of traffic stuck behind the acceleration abilities of a large truck :p and am cruising along when I spy a cop coming the other way who then turns on his lights & siren, does an aggressive u-turn, with his arm sticking out the window pointing at me to pull over, which I do.

And quite frankly I'm puzzled, as I've been sticking to 110kph religiously, and wonder if he's spotted something wrong with the bike (can you get ticketed for wearing rabbitear loptoffs? ;) ).

I barely manage to get the bike on the sidestand before he's right beside the bike & in my face (well, helmet actually) aggressively & confrontationally telling me that, "You were speeding!" :eek5:

Which provokes the instant, rather indignant, and quite frankly shocked response from me, "I was not!!"

It quickly deteriorated from there! I eventually managed to get my helmet off & had to ask him to move away from the bike so I could place it safely on the ground - he'd never given me a chance to get off the bike.

I was apparently doing 137kph when he spotted me & clocked me at 130kph, the radars are very accurate & he could do me in court, I should be watching my speedo more closely ("But I was!"), I was so far out in front of any other traffic (that must mean I was speeding ), blah, blah, blah.

I was shit scared, I can tell you. It's the first time I've ever been pulled over by such an overbearing, aggressive & scary cop and I was scared because I knew I was doing 110kph but if he decided to write me a ticket how the hell could I prove it in court?!?!




Then he backs down completely and tells me that I'm damn lucky because there were some cars coming down the hill behind me at the time (not quite saying out loud that perhaps he'd pulled over the wrong person). :brick:

I had to pull over a couple of km's up the road to have a ciggie cos I was still shaking!

[wari]

Hey Slim ... I'm sure you could complain about that kind of shit ... did you get his ID number or whatever they have?

&nbsp;

Makes me mad that does ... :angry::mad: see ?

[MikeL]

Not sure an official complaint would get you anywhere - it would be just your word against his. If you had a pillion or were driving a car with a passenger as a witness you'd have more chance. I suspect that bikers on a whole get worse treatment not just because the cops have an attitude but also because generally being on their own they can be intimidated and insulted with impunity. On my encounters with cops I tend to be apologetic and courteous although inwardly seething, and more often than not it works. My two sons, however, whose loathing for the boys in blue knows no limits, openly taunt and provoke them at every opportunity, from a foolish and mistaken belief that a couple of years of studying law combined with their superior intellect will ensure victory. Sooner or later they will bite off more than they can chew. I must admit to a sneaking admiration for them in the meantime, though. As for me, I'll continue to be polite and co-operative, look confused (the grey hairs are a boon) and say "Really? I'm sorry, I didn't realize..." :p

[bikerboy]

The whole situation sucks! In my case there was no way I could have accelerated to the accused speed in that short of distance, plus there is no way the cop could get an accurate lock on me given the traffic, our positions and the short time frame. However if I contest in court how do I prove it wasn't me.

It will always be my word against theirs, and judges think the public are lieing, speeding bastards and the cops are unbiased honest public servants who never make mistakes.

We've got to unite and fight this crap as it is already out of control.:argh:

[Slim]

Wari - I didn't get his number, and it wasn't until I got home & was telling my family about the whole thing that I started to get pissed off about it.

Mike - I believe that an unemotional, non-slanging letter to the cops written immediately on my return home, setting out the situation, my view and as near an accurate a description of the conversation as possible, would have got me off a ticket, if he had written a ticket. The police dept tend to take a dim view of the type of behaviour I encountered.

There's also the added bonus of a police witness who could attest to my normal & perfectly reasonable attitude to being given a ticket when I know I'm in the wrong, due to a small indescretion leaving Paeroa this year. :rolleyes:

And I would have sold my c@r to take it all the way to court if I'd had to. :D

[Goddess of Goof]

Hey Slim

I was kinda overdoing the seductive bit in my post, just for a laugh. :D

I haven't had any run in with the law about speeding yet, but if I did, I think I would be just as bothered as you were.
One time when a cop pulled me over for running a late amber light in the car at an intersection, I was almost gibbering with apology and so scared that I'd get a ticket.
Was let off that time, I've been lucky often.
:)

[bluninja]

Bikerboy, that sucks. I've only been pulled over once by the police in NZ. A gingernut outside Wellsford, and I got the agressive verbals despite not speeding at the time. Maybe we should all carry a tape recorder with us, and make a show of turning it on before talking to an officer of the law.

BTW, if you were just emerging from the petrol station, even if he locked onto you, the metal structure of the station right behind you would have interfered with his radar (another reason they trap you on straight uncluttered bits of road) and if he wasn't even in direct line of sight (forward or reverse) then his reading couldn't be accurate.

Slim, when I hear about instances like that I sometimes wonder whether they dose them with speed or some drug to make them agressive and nasty. It would be great to get an undercover video of police behaving in this way, just so something would be done about it. Still, no ticket; I guess the guy suffers from SPS (short penis syndrome:D)

TTFN

[Coldkiwi]

at the very least you can demand to see the radar having clocked you at the supposed 137kmhr!!! Sounds like the same dirty bastard who reckoned he got Aff-man at 133 kmhr (quite impossible on that section of the Sth mwy).

Filthy filthy pigs

&nbsp;:angry:

[bikerboy]

:( The problem is the radar probably did think something was going that fast, However it could have been anything, including the radiator fan of the polivce car. There have been studies done where signs vibrating in the wind can cause a false reading, often things like house going 300kph.

The idiot in the car hears the alarm, looks around and if he sees no vehicles he presumes it a false reading. If he sees a vehicle he ASSumes that the driver is guilty. There is no thought process or logic to it, much like those scanners at the check out. If it says the can of beans is $10,000.00, thats what they'll try to charge you unless YOU point out the mistake. :argh:

[Slim]

Originally posted by Coldkiwi
at the very least you can demand to see the radar having clocked you at the supposed 137kmhr!!!
I definitely would have if he'd started writing out a ticket, but until that happened I didn't need to see it because I knew that I was doing 110kph.


Sounds like the same dirty bastard who reckoned he got Aff-man at 133 kmhr (quite impossible on that section of the Sth mwy).
Older, white hair, mustache, sargeant-major type of guy.


Originally posted by bluninja
Still, no ticket; I guess the guy suffers from SPS (short penis syndrome :D )
PMSL! :p

[Goddess of Goof]

One cop was nice, once.
My riding buddy and I passed him on the highway back from Paeroa, we weren't speeding or anything, just coping with heavy traffic.
He fully looked at us, but we carried on. Later on we stopped for 20 minutes to let the sun set and avoid sun-strike, which was getting troublesome.
Cop passes us, pulls over, and gets out purposefully, and strides over to where we were innocently parked up in a safe place.
Uh oh, whaddus he want ? we muttered. Looks like something's
up. :eek5:

Turns out he was a biker and interested in bikes - particularly the one my friend was riding. He was friendly, informed, and we had a real nice long talk. You can never tell, eh.:cool:

[What?]

Did a runner once&nbsp;-&nbsp; a long time ago when my CB11 was quite new and the cops had nothing anywhere near that fast... Plus I was only a few K's south of Tokoroa, so it was a good bet that I could get into town and down a side road before the cop even got turned around.

I don't believe&nbsp;I would try it again - the opposition has improved (?)&nbsp;over the years to the point where getting away with it is unlikely, and the consequences of trying outweigh the risks.

(a small aside: the cop&nbsp;very likely&nbsp;saved me from a spill&nbsp;as I hit a possum exiting a corner whilst in the process of evading said cop.&nbsp;As I was hard on the gas, there was not too much drama, but no cop behind me probably would have seen me do something really silly, like brake!!):eek:

[aff-man]

Quote:

Older, white hair, mustache, sargeant-major type of guy.

&nbsp;

Nope sorry slim my gut was late twenties highway patrol large and intimidating type of guy. Being pulled over for my first time i was packing myself and so got walked all over by this guy. He even ended up giving me a fine for not having an&nbsp;L plate on my restricted i mean come on and when asked where he was parked he became vague and quite agressive. And so here i am, three months later, &nbsp;after sending numerous letters to the cops trying to find out where he was parked and only getting crap reply's which actually do not answer any questions. I am not going to pay untill they answer my questions and if they don't well i'll keep sending letters. Isn't it funny that when you ask the hard questions they somehow seem to "misinterperate" them or just not answer them at all.

[Kwaka-Kid]

hey aff-man, thats no good to hear dude!

however at least i didnt get my speeding ticket :) i thought the camera flashed me approx 2 weeks ago, my mate got hte same camera 2 days after me and got hte ticket a few days ago, i checked my mail at my old ladies. and none from them :) YAY! im so happy, i only just raised my plate so its right up under the reflector, but im sure its visible? + looks std. so its all good, maybe ti saved me, maybe a car saved me, or maybe it was a 100watt indicator i saw :P hehe.

well, ive never ever been pulled over on a bike, they wont touch me :( i want to so i can just have a good chat! oh well i lie, i have been pulled over i think twice, but just by bike cops i know, that ive waved to to pull over. :) anyways yeah, i honestly fully dont have the big i hate cops attatude, and im guessing its because i havent been pulled over on the bike, ive been pulledover once in my car, which was all good and i chatted to the young cop, and ive been in mates cars a number of times... and just let me say tone/attatude gets you a long way.. or a long way down shit creek if your some of my mates.. i sit and listen in the back seat thinking "dont be another teenage hero that wanted to tell the cop hes wrong" - i look @ it this way.. no matter what, once he has said somthing, e.g You were speeding back there, DO YOU REALLY THINK, if u tell him u wernt, hes gunna all of a sudden say "oh im sorry lad, musta got u mixed up, hav a nice day" so my wayis automatically agree and sound regretful and genuine, just dont try and tell them they are wrong, worse yet, dont start swearing @ them or poking fingures, okay in the moment it might make you feel like the absolute man&nbsp; - and be a great storey to tell the mates, but the ending will never be a good one.

thats all, sorry for the long post :)

[SPman]

You can be as charming to them as you like - it just means they are smiling as they write out the ticket!:eek:

If they want to be obnoxious pricks, they will be obnoxious pricks and all the arselicking in the world won't get you off:angry:

So - Fuck em:bash:

[bikerboy]

So true SPman, sooo Truue!:brick:

[aff-man]

yes the officer who pulled me over was agressive untill he had written out the ticket and then he was all smug and stuff&nbsp; .I hope to meet a nice cop just to change my impression of them.:D

[Redstar]

hey I saw this flow chart on this and it was real cool. I cant remember it all but it went somthing like.

1. are you tyres warm yes move on no stop.
2. have you got a bike faster than a BMWRT1200? yes move on no stop. (thats easy)
3. do you know the streets you are on ? yes move on no stop
4. did they get your plate? yes move on no stop?
5. do you allready have 190 demerits? yes move on no maybe stop
6. do you have a pre arranged alaby? yes move on no stop
7. do you have a hiding place? yes move on no stop
8. is the traffic heavy? yes move on no stop.
9. can you spell alaby? aliby? alibuy? excuse?
yes move on no stop.

are you putting anyone else at risk? kids pilion? family?
yes Don't go there!

[Slim]

Originally posted by Kwaka-Kid
i look @ it this way.. no matter what, once he has said somthing, e.g You were speeding back there, DO YOU REALLY THINK, if u tell him u wernt, hes gunna all of a sudden say "oh im sorry lad, musta got u mixed up, hav a nice day" so my wayis automatically agree and sound regretful and genuine, just dont try and tell them they are wrong, worse yet, dont start swearing @ them or poking fingures, ...
I completely agree with your comments regarding attitude, for the simple reason that a bad attitude can only make things worse for you ie: you got pulled for speeding, but bad attitude got your rego/warrant/bike examined more thoroughly & a bigger ticket. :rolleyes:

But I've already demonstrated in this thread that if you weren't doing what they say you were, telling them so may work. OK. So he didn't say, "Oh, I'm sorry lass, musta got u mixed up, have a nice day," but he came pretty close to admitting that he may have pulled over the wrong person and he didn't write me a ticket, and if I'd just rolled over & said, "Yes officer, no officer, three bags full officer," I would have got a nice ticket & some extra demerit points which I didn't actually earn. :mad:

Truth always pays.

[What?]

Damned right, Slim. I once got pulled up going into Sanson on the way home from Manfeild by a cop who claimed to have clocked me at 139K. When I told him "No", and explained that the bike he clocked was a blue and white Suzuki 2 stroke, whereas mine was a red and white Honda 4 stroke his whole attitude changed. In fact, he had clocked me over the limit as well, but was happy to leave me with a flash of the headlights and a finger wave.:D

And then there was yesterday. I followed a highway robber car from Cambridge to my home (just out of Tauranga) at 120K most of the way. Said highway robber was following another car at same speed for quite a way with no action, then he tries to give me a demo on how fast he could get his commodore up the Kaimai hill. Giving it heaps, he was, and looking in his mirrors quite regularly to see if I was still there (?!) Seems there is always one to blow our theories away.:done:

[Coldkiwi]

no, he was doing what I've seen another pig do.. break the law and see if you follow him at which point he will stop and nail your ass! He's not testing his car, just baiting you.

saw a pig acclerate hard to get through a yellow light (PLENTY of room to stop) and as he went through, he looks up in his mirror to see if I'm going to go as well! (I'm not that stupid). I can gaurantee he would've pulled me over if I had

Cheeky punk ass mother

&nbsp;

[What?]

Yeah, I did think of that, but he was breaking the rules before I entered his little view of the world. I followed him for about 55K at that speed, so&nbsp;I reckon that was heaps of time to pull me (or someone else) up. My pick is he had been to HO or court or somesuch&nbsp;and had his botty smacked, so was driving home with an attitude problem.:confused:

[Kwaka-Kid]

bare in mind this is only your pick... As all it ever seems is that instantly people think nasty things about cops... and fair enuf, i understand the reputation and all.. but half of their reputation is made up from what people THINK is going on.. when really.. He could simply have been called out to an accident/duty and thought there was no need for flashing lights... and u said he later slowed down or somthing? well he was most likly stood down as more units attended... or he possibly forgot to flick the switch during this to put the lights on.. which is bad i know.. but no where near as bad as u are making this guy out to be

You should be shamed for becoming so cynical in ur age :P

Think positive.. it helps keep your own attatude good.

- this all coming from a fully inexperienced 17yo. so feel free to shoot me down :)

[SPman]

Shoot you down? Never!

After all, this is a balanced board here :p

&nbsp;and we need different points of view

&nbsp;:calm::bash:

[bikerboy]

:( The cops are held up to be better than everyone else, and they most likely believe it.

Just traveling along I see cops doing the same "bad "things everyone else does, change lanes without signaling, going with the flow of traffic even though over 50kph, going through yellow lights etc. These guys aren't on any important mission, they are just exhibiting the same generally bad driving habits of everyone else.

When caught, they make up an excuse, lie and cover up for each other. Sadly we believe they are the good guys because they are really all there is between us and the bad guys.

It is the hypocrascy that makes us cynical, they go after the easy targets in the name of making the roads safe. They will never convince me it's about safety not money.

Sit at any intersection and at least three cars go through which shouldn't, In twelve years of living in NZ I have not heard of nor know anyone to recieve a ticket for going through a red light.:done:

[Kwaka-Kid]

haha yeah well to say my points of veiw are different is... erm, an understatement :D

[Redstar]

What about Bikes? no not the motorised type I mean the guys and gals in lycra shorts they can pass on the left,shoot through red lights ride on the footpath, use ped crossings and generally flout all the so called road user rules no need for a licence and do the Men in blue do anything? na too hard. but in suburban streets these persons can hit 60klm/hr with impunity.
I got another Passing $150 fine on thursday yep KS if your wathching its me! 25 years no accidents at fault car moped or bike but hell man you have your job to do I wont waste the stamp for a the dear john letter. Ill give my son nothing for his birhday so you can make target.

PS Nothing wrong with gals in Lycra!

[Kwaka-Kid]

Redstar... that didnt happen to be on a Yellow SV650 did it?

[BigB]

This a timely reminder of what can happen if you do run

Two dead after police chase


Two people are dead and another is seriously injured following a high speed police chase in Northland.

The chase began after a motorcyclist was ordered to pull over on State Highway One, near Waipu around nine o'clock on Monday night.

Police say the motorcyclist rode off, reaching speeds of up to 195 kilometres an hour towards the Northland town of Whangarei.

Inspector Peter Rosendale says police had given up the chase moments before the motorcyclist smashed into an oncoming car.

The motorcyclist died at the scene and the two occupants of the car were taken to Whangarei Hospital.

The 18 year old female driver of the car died


:( :( :(

[bluninja]

True, the real tragedy in this is the death of the car driver and injury of another.&nbsp;I'm assuming that they were not to blame for the accident (a big assumption without facts I know). As for the rider....well they escaped a fine and a riding ban......and got banned from life.....what a price.&nbsp;

Interesting that the police had stopped the chase 'moments' before the accident, and the speeds of 195 kph reached quoted, imply that is actually how fast they were riding when they crashed. That this is a human tragedy is no doubt, but there may well be some police 'spin' in the report.

I'm not sure I would be doing those sort of speeds in the dark, chase or not. Bike headlights aren't good enough to see ahead of you far enough at that speed.

TTFN

[Dave]

Desperation leads to desperate measures!
I don't think the police should be even trying to chase someone at those sort of speeds. The report I heard on the radio said that a patrol car had been chasing at speeds up to 195 and that another patrol car had joined in the chase.
Really they are just pushing the person to cause something like this to happen.
After a minute or two of chasing they would probably have enough info (rego,color,make etc.) to catch this person at a later date without people being killed.

[Coldkiwi]

yup... going for a runner is only worth it if you're all going to live to brag about it.

To take someone else's life in the process is just wrong beyond all measure.

[Kwaka-Kid]

Im not sure i agree with you dave... if the plice stuck to that then they would let every little sucker go, and we would all know that "just hit over 150kmph even on a streight and they will let you go" as we also know that all the info theycan get is still not enough/as good sa catching the bugger red handed.&nbsp; I think the police did the right thing and the only thing wrong was calling off the chase... Now all the public will be doing is putting their spin on things that the police are to blame.. it sounds right in a long thought process.. but then step back. .take another look.. relate it to somthing.. did the cops MAKE HIM CRASH? no, fuck off, sorry this just makes me mad :P&nbsp; its like saying the guy infront of me on pukekohe racetrack made me crash because he made me try and keep up with him, what utter bollocks. :S

[Dave]

The family that lost a daughter this morning probably dont agree with you.

[Kwaka-Kid]

well, i hate to say this and all, and i dont mean to disrespect the family or anything, i fully feel sad about it myself, and im sure it was a big loss, but however, somimes such big losses as these make people think and stuff anything possible to have saved the loss from happening... But somtimes you just have to accept that for justice to take place there are casualties etc... i know it sounds really insensitive.. but its like, it feels bad for the family/close friends mostly.. otherwise you must seperate urself from that and seek the best way to like, bring justice... if it was my brother say.. i would feel sad and angry, however i think i would be understanding towards the force, you cant, simply CANT blame them at all... when u step back and take a big overveiw of it without getting lost in the details.. its just not logical. this biker is to blame, it is purely his fault... in saying that police should stand down around those speeds would only make people reach them more often to get off little offences.. which i think would bring the death toll higher...

Just, have a nice long hard think :) - make an example.. relate it to somthing.

[Nouseforaname]

When i went passed a cop 5 weeks ago going over 100kph in a 50 i did seriously consider doing a runner, as i wouldnt be in the shit that i am now..... lost my licence instantly for 28days and also pending a fine and further loss of license once i finally get a summons to go to court... not only that but i almost got fired from my job too. But i had to think about a few things very quickly when i saw the red and blue flashing ;

A: Just go for it... and very possibly get away:D

B: Just go for it... and end up dead:argh:

C: pull over and get a bollocking from a very uptight female officer and then walk for 1 1/2 hours to get home.

I went for option C..........

I must say though i feel damn sorry for the innocent girl who was killed up north by the triumph rider.... she was on her way back back from visiting her dying grandfather.

[750Y]

I think all in all this is a bad day for the victim's family/friends, us motorcyclists and the Police alike. No one wins. I guess there will be pressure again for someone in Wellington to make a call now as to how much the risk of life is worth in the context of a traffic offence. (comparing it to something).
The cops sat down at the table & entered into a deadly game & threw their chips into the middle, upping the stakes, pity their bluff was called when the dealer pulled the joker.

[Blackbird]

Not naming names, but there was a person who&nbsp;did a runner about 18 months ago, errr.... "somewhere" in the vicinity of Taupo and will never, ever, do it again.&nbsp; The adrenaline was running amok and that person's riding turned to complete crap.&nbsp;&nbsp;He was shaking so badly when&nbsp;he came to a stop after realising that he'd&nbsp;got away with it&nbsp;that he&nbsp;could barely hold the bike up.&nbsp; All that for not paying proper attention to the rear view mirrors....

You cross the line into SERIOUSLY BAD PERSON territory when you run and it just ain't worth it.&nbsp; Like Nousforaname said: pull over, eat humble pie and hope for the best.

&nbsp;:o

[bikerboy]

:argh: The police's roll in all of this is called contributory negligence.

Cause and effect: The effect was a running biker, the cause was the chasing police. The worst case senario if the police didn't chase; no speeding ticket. The worst case senario of the chase; possible death due to accident. The biker was foolish. The police should know better, as this has happened before.

Two lives were worth far more than a speeding ticket. The police obsession with speeding blinded them to the risks of high speed chases, yet again. They could have gotten the license number and as in all tickets, make the owner prove it wasn't them. Then they could have called off the chase more than a millisecond before the bike hit the car.

:done:

[MikeL]

This is an interesting moral dilemma, regardless of the legal aspects ("contributory negligence" on the part of the pursuing officer - who's going to prosecute??). In retrospect the decision to continue the chase was clearly wrong, yet at what point does the balance shift between acceptable risk and unacceptable risk? If, as I believe, any chase at above-legal speeds runs a dramatically increased risk of serious injury to the offender compared to the same rider/driver doing a similar speed without being pursued, how can we justify the pursuit at all? And that's without considering the risk of injury to an innocent third party. If we accept the principle that it is better for 10 guilty men to go unpunished than for one innocent man to hang, we should accept that there may have to be limits to enforcement when the possible consequences of that enforcment are out of all proportion to the seriousness of the crime. I know that the full story of this tragic accident is yet to be told, but regardless of the precise circumstances I still get an uneasy feeling about the whole question of police chases. Could it be that the pressure to fulfil an arbitrary quota of tickets influenced the decision to continue the pursuit? If I were the police officer involved, I think I'd be finding it hard to get to sleep tonight...

[Kwaka-Kid]

Well i hope he has the best damn sleep hes ever had and eats a big meat pie too, congratulations to him for carrying out what he is paid to do.

You cant put an exact figure/measure on how high risk is... Simon wrote his bike off @ 20kmph or whatever and could have died... I came off @ 160 and could have walked home to auckland from puke... Alrite you maynot think this is exactly relevant but all i msaying is its really iffy... and secondly about this chase.. we dont know the half of it.. from what ive heard. THE FIRST OFFICOR SPOTTED THE BIKE DOING 195kmph.. so if this is true (and sorry if i misheard) he wasnt even being chased and doing fucking high speed! this to me sounds like a drug run.. also that they mentioned his bag to land 40m away.. hmm.. bag full of? now before i go on to say i think he was prolly doing a meth run, just by the sounds of the start.. even if he wasnt being chased.. this/an accident was likly to occur... if he was travelling @ these speeds.&nbsp; Just dont put it on the cop.. the cop did not reach over his shoulder and wind that throttle open, the cop did not tell him to run away.&nbsp; The cop merely did his job and dont try to put the whole "could this have been because of the ticket bs" thing on him... damn when im in hte force and if i saw some1 whizz by @ that speed id be dead set on taking him out even :@ hes a threath to anyone/thing WITHOUT any cops chasing him.. so i doubt he can do much worse with them chasing.. i say knock a car into the back of the bike and wed all be right, thats what should be allowed...

[Kwaka-Kid]

well the 2nd car in the chase was a police dog handler unit.. now do you REALLY THINK that a big heavy slow as a mofo dog handler ute can actually pressure someone on a bike? Your fucking kidding me :P my cb250RS would piss all over it.&nbsp;You see, why would a man be speeding so hard? its hard t obeleive hed do it for fun.. and out those areas i know that there have been some meth runs.. so whats a cop to first assume? so if this bag does contain meth, the cops mighta saved all yo daughters and sons from becomming hardout meth addicts and committing suicide not long after :) - you never know?

well i spose the main point im trying to get across is the difference between the Dog in the Police Unit, and the Fuckwit on the bike.&nbsp;&nbsp; You see the dog on one hand, Did not "choose" to do 170kmph or whatever, no no, it had no option in it at all... the fuckwit on the other hand did... he was in control of the motorvechile, he chose, HE CHOSE to run the risk of his/others lives.. it was his bad decision making alone that lead to the death of a young girl.&nbsp; If he had of lived, i say he aught to be up for a Murder charge.

Aside from the differences in opinion - i think all our thoughts go out to the unfortunate girl in charge of the other vechile tonite... rip

[SPman]

I sorta agree with U:eek: :argh:

[Coldkiwi]

lets ignore your drug runner theory for a second (being that its based on speculation and if I was a drug runner, i'd do my run (like most sensible druggies) trying to attract as LITTLE attention as possible). I think the odds of a biker doing 195kmhr for fun are RATHER good.... kawhia anyone? coromandel? miranda straights? hunua straights? sounds familiar to any of us on large sports bikes? Do all of us that own bikes easily capable of 200kph do drug runs? piss off!

but regardless, the cops should realise that a chase is futile at those speeds. They're much better (and more effective) to put up a road block ahead and get the chopper up there.. that's what they have radios and proceedures for. Its not a case of 'if we don't pursue we won't get the guy'... this is the 21st century KK... we've HOPEFULLY proceeded past cops and robbers mentality of a 1930's movie flick.

I think the police proceedure of NOT pursuing over 150kmhr is very well founded (like they get enough training to do it near those speeds safely anyway). Why bark yourself when you have a dog ...or eagle?

&nbsp;

and finally. KK, if you've got an attitude of wanting to take a motorist or biker 'out' because they're going too fast, you'd better not end up in a hearing in court because of&nbsp;that attitude if I'm on a jury! We have a military (ok, sort of!) for attitudes like that. The cops are there to protect EVERYONE, not act the judge, jury and executioner. I trust the police academy will make this clear to you in the fullness of time. God help us if they don't!

[750Y]

woa! that bit about the meat pie was a bit ott.
has someone been watching americas most wanted again?
I've heard that 195kph is nothing for many riders.
that's a heck of a lot of drug runners.
what gave him away? the triumph? the bag? or the northland location? or d all of the above.
will I have to wait an extra 2 days for my P now?

[aff-man]

Well kk i agree and disagree with you sure the biker was an arse for doing high speeds but the cops ,in my opinion, were even bigger arses. The have radio's ,set up a road block and if he gets away with it he'll probably do it again and probably get caught. But if he hears the sirens ect what is it doing but pushing him on to greater speeds (and greater f#$k-ups). It was my understanding that the police were only allowed to travel 50kph over the speed limit is this a&nbsp; myth???? And if so are those cars built to go that fast i mean sure police cars are fast but kepping up with a bigger bike??? It really confuses me as to what they were thinking to much american television maybe.

As to the unfortunate innocent(s) - no-one deserves to go out due to the reckless arseness of others -rip

[Dave]

One of my contracts was to look after the police vehicle when I worked at Ford.the police dog vans are equipped with XR6 or holden FE2 suspension and get better maintenance /have more care spent on them than any patrol car does.I have seen a speed camera photo of a dog van in central auckland going through an intersection with all 4 wheels off the ground.Believe me,If they wanted to play chasey,they would give it their best effort.

[What?]

Yeah - why start a chase when someone does a runner? There are much safer ways to apprehend someone who has been substantially naughty. So why?

Coz it's not the kill, it's the thrill of the chase. Truth is, the cops ENJOY a good high speed chase. Just the same as we enjoy going fast sometimes, too - it's just they get to do it with a degree of impunity.:angry2:

[Kwaka-Kid]

haha firstly: dave - i dont care what suspension they got in them.. ive seen them and been told about them.. they are not fast compared to a modern bike...&nbsp; Secondly it was 9pm @ night.. its shit hard to see a plate @ that speed.. so that ideas gone.. and also there were point the rider could have turned off @... the chances of catching him are just so much lower... i say use all means needed to catch the fucker, throw everything at him... and then if the rider is ABSOLUTLY SO-F-INGLY stpuid enough to try and run? then hes the same dumbarse that is likly to hit a car travelling @ high speed without police anyway.&nbsp; + with a friggin black triumph speed tripple, if he had any skill im sure he would have been far enough away from the final cop car within 30 seconds to even hear the lights.. so how would he have known they were still chasing? ok.. so if he thought they had stopped.. and was still ruing just in case.. do we just NOT even enter a chase @ all because of the risk? so say sombody is doing 110 on a motorway and we engage in persuit.. and he accelerates.. do we then decide to tell all the force just to abandon? because if the guy gets away real fast like on a bike.. he will keep on pumping if hes stupid enough in the first place to run like that... then he will hit a car and kill your daughter, aswell as himself escaping any punishment.&nbsp; meh :S

[Kwaka-Kid]

oh and lastly

affman-

"set up a road block and if he gets away with it he'll probably do it again and probably get caught"

fact is he prolly WONT get caught.. and only get better... untill he hits a car randomly without any police and you all start whining "Ohh what are the police doing to get these hoons off our streets!! pay them less!"

And i think the force should harden up, get some military training.what happen to the days of the old cops.. it was better back then..&nbsp; If your speeding, fair enough.. but when i try to pull you over and give you your punishment and u run..&nbsp;I will try and use any means needed to get you off that bike and close enough to me to smack you one! :P or just give u a ticket.. :)&nbsp; harden up!

[Dave]

You seem to have all the answers kk,
I can't wait until your patrolling the streets and making the place safer for us all.

[bluninja]

Originally posted by Kwaka-Kid
if he had any skill im sure he would have been far enough away from the final cop car within 30 seconds to even hear the lights..&nbsp;

Hearing lights?? Is that with earplugs in or not ?&nbsp;:gob:

KK maybe I'm out of line, but I believe the primary role of the police force is to protect the general populace from people that break the law.....that's based on the precept that when someone commits a crime there is a victim. Speeding is a crime where there is no direct victim....just a statistical link to injuries and deaths on the roads. It may be frustrating to let someone escape having committed a crime and to track them down later, but in my eyes the only reason to have a balls out police chase is where the person is likely to kill, injure, or commit a major crime if they are not stopped immediately.

Put it another way, if you were a hostage would you want the police to negotiate your safe release and THEN track down the crim, or just go in and arrest them and stuff the consequences to you. I want the police to keep people safe first and then catch the crims after rather than just catch the crims no matter what the cost.

TTFN

[Hoon]

Firstly, doing runners...like Blackbird mentioned, the adrenaline rush is very powerful......just one notch lower than full-on panic, if you can't control it, it will control you and get you killed.&nbsp;

I had a very&nbsp;"colourful" youth growing up in West Auckland&nbsp;during the late 80's.&nbsp; By the time I was 21 I had been through 5&nbsp;cars (all V8's) and lost my license twice.&nbsp; Car chases were a regular weekend activity.&nbsp; The adrenaline rush is something I have yet to match and can be very hard to control (but does become easier with practice).&nbsp; After some chases I had to pull over and run around for a while until the adrenaline wore off because I couldn't keep still or drive at a legal speed without anxiety kicking in.&nbsp; The adrenaline makes you want to throw your vehicle into a corner with your foot to the floor.

I remember one night we were on the town in my V8 LJ Torana.&nbsp; I had swapped seats with&nbsp;my mate who wanted a quick drive.&nbsp; We had just pulled away down Tamaki drive when a cop saw us and came after us (I had done an earlier runner that night along K'Rd).&nbsp; I told my mate to hoof it (his first runner), he went down&nbsp;a wrong side street which ended up being very twisty and he didn't slow down much to my amazement.&nbsp; Took the first corner barely but the second corner went into a slide and slammed into the kerb sideways - we were still going but after he missed the next turn I told him to pull over because he clearly was not in control.&nbsp; He got pinged big time and I got 2 busted up rims.

In a Police chase situation, Adrenaline/fear/panic makes people exceed their abilities and this is what kills.

Thankfully I grew out of that stuff before I hurt anyone and now&nbsp;I'm a responsible law-abiding productive member of the community!

Anyway, back to Police procedures....a friend of mine is a Police Seargeant and shift supervisor.&nbsp; He told me that if a car chase happens, the shift supervisor makes the decision to continue the chase or not.&nbsp; They take into account factors such as traffic, danger to public, severity of the crime, etc and most times they will pull back and send out the Eagle chopper/set up road spikes or just take their rego and pay them a visit later for lesser infringements.&nbsp; Also if the offender starts driving&nbsp;erratically i.e. losing control - wrong side of the road etc then they would pull back.&nbsp; The only reason they would&nbsp;continue a dangerous chase is if it were a violent crime, involved firearms or a bank robery or something.&nbsp;

I do not agree that offenders should be chased regardless because people doing runners will do stupid things and if you keep pushing them it is only a matter of time before their luck runs out.&nbsp; Chases should only be pursued if the crime warrants immediate capture.

[Motu]

I think they should change the chemicals in the spray plane and just quietly put all you Westies to sleep - trouble is,I live there too!

I think you are right about policy of pursuit,they will only continue with a dangerous one if there are other reasons to make sure they get them.But what about the Skyline at Rangiriri? the Asian lost his head completly and took out a little girl watching her dad pump up the tyres.Life is just too complicated -shoot em all!!!

[bikerboy]

KK is right . The police were much better in the god ole days when they really knew how to keep trouble makers in line.
I' sure KK would have fit right in, maybe he's heard of them despite his youth, they were known as the gestapo.:oops:

[Kwaka-Kid]

hahaha yes yes yes! :P no. lol

bare in mind im a lost little 17yo @ that stage where he doesnt just want his opinion heard but actioned on! :P hahaha f-in teenagers eh? who wants em.

[merv]

One of the reports I read said the biker was known to the Police so really there was no need to chase him. Maybe he was a druggie or something but if he was known to them, then surely they just need to note the offence with witness help for statements and then turn up at his house later and arrest him. The chase also shows the natural animal instinct of the cop - like a tiger - to chase its prey. You just gotta watch yankee action movies with chase scenes to show how stupid they can get when everyone's adrenalin runs high - usually they end up with multiple wrecks and everyone wondering what happened. The cops need to learn to control themselves and stay calm. The young girl in the Honda Civic did not deserve this and some of the blame has to rest with the cops as they caused the (animal) biker to run harder, just like a cornered animal will attack and run.

[wkid_one]

All I can say is that they must have had the rego - so why pursue the rider?

This is a typical example of the maverick, gung ho police force we have at the moment.&nbsp; It is also an example of the effects of setting a target on the number of contacts police must make.&nbsp; I ask this question - had the policeman not had the pressure to make 3 contacts an hour - would he have pursued the rider - or just taken the rego and driven straight to the riders house and waited for him to come home??&nbsp; Maybe a reason, maybe not - we'll never know, but it makes sense.&nbsp; Instead two people are dead and one in hospital and three families devastated - not to mention the police man and his family.&nbsp;

Are the contacts per hour forcing our police force not only to be more mercenary about issuing tickets - but also being more hot-headed about doing it?&nbsp; Had the policeman chasing the rider been reaching his quota?&nbsp; Was he under pressure that day cause there weren't many tickets to issue?&nbsp; So many questions - none of them good for the quota system.

Also - if the chase went over 40km - why was the radio not employed to get cars blocking all possible exits and just wait for him to come to them rather than chasing him?&nbsp; It appears stupid to me that the police called off the chase only when the riders riding became eratic - but didn't pull back when it was too fast?

&nbsp;

[SPman]

Police&nbsp; hotheaded? - never! Theyre all sober responsible rational sensitive human beans!&nbsp; Aren't they? Why.Mildred and I were just discussing this over our Horlicks. They'd never chase a poor person for&nbsp;so long for no good reason!............:gob:

They are actually having trouble with recruitment - mainly attitude! (surprise,&nbsp;surprise!) My cozzy says that well over half the recruits these days have macho, ego, problems, and we're sure starting to see it now. It used to be tolerable (just), now........................:eek:

[What?]

Originally posted by SPman
My cozzy says that well over half the recruits these days have macho, ego, problems, and we're sure starting to see it now. It used to be tolerable (just), now........................:eek:

And that is why the zero-tolerance policy is set: because it allows these guys to be robots. If they are not expected by their controllers to use any discretion, then there is no need for them to have the ability to use discretion. This in turn means it is easier to select new recruits, which is a biggie to the bosses as all the good cops are getting pissed off and leaving. Remember back before the last general election, the Labour party promised more front-line police?? It seems the promise was Quantity, not Quality!:argh::beer:

[Nouseforaname]

Unless we were there then we do not know the full circumstances... it's all just speculation, and assumption is the mother of all fuck ups. Sure the police give you tickets and you get pissed off, but hey, there just doing their job. If my house gets robbed or i get beaten up or sumthing, then the first person i will call is the police.

So i cop tries to pull over a bike and he does a runner, why should the cop just not bother to persue him, obviously this bike rider has something to hide..... how does the cop know that his biker hasnt just commited a robbery or even just murdered someone... he dosnt, so he has to give chase.

Straight up.... the bike rider had something to hide and gased it, the cop did his job................

maybe the chase should have been called off earlier, that way a poor family wouldnt be grieving the dead daughter, sister, neice, etc right now.

Just look at it this way.... how would you feel if somebody who was close to you was murdered, the police knew who did it because they have been following him from the crime scene, but then the police call off the chase and the little f$%ker rides off into the sunset after killing somebody you loved.

As i said, lots of speculation.

[Marmoot]

Endless discussion...and probably fruitless. Not to mention the potential to divide our society into pro and contra, starting a friction. Is that what the dead deserve? If it is, then they died for nothing.

I'd say this thing happens all the time. It is just a reminder about how animal we are. Not just bikers, druggies, but also police. Human is born in love with speed. Did you like it when your dad swoop you around when you were small? Did you like to play swing back then? Or running around in the field? Why?

BECAUSE THEY WERE YOUR FREEDOM! adrenaline rush and speed are only factor.

The dead rider was guilty. He was probably doing drug run. Or he was probably just enjoying his adrenaline. Whatever it is, he was guilty for endangering public.

But, on the other hand, the chasing cop is guilty as well. Why? He was probably doing his job. But he was probably enjoying the adrenaline as well. There is no telling. All we know is, he was guilty for being a factor in the chase. Poking a cornered snake is not exactly a wise idea.

So what?

What we need is better quality control for police officers. They have to be better prepared mentally to encounter these sort of situation, to not be trapped in their own enjoyment, but to be able to excercise proper caution and procedures! That's what we need.

Forget the law. It is already as good as it gets. All we need is BETTER IMPLEMENTATION of the law!

--------------------------

You can't fight fire with fire. You'll only end up with too much fire.

[SPman]

Just a thought -

How much of a influence in the decision to run is due to the "exceed 50K over the limit and lose your license on the spot" law?

If I was clocked&nbsp; 50 over in the middle of nowhere at night (or day), it would be a serious factor in&nbsp;my consideration ....to run or no!&nbsp;:confused:

[Coldkiwi]

good point... its easy to get&nbsp;50kph over the limit (whatever that may be) on a 600+cc bike so if the roads are suitable, you'd have to say that the odds of that 50kph being increased to 100kph or more for someone who's freaked at being pinged are pretty good... 'if i'm gonna run I'd better run fast!'

I understood that the cops only knew of the biker when they saw him speeding? didn't think there was any suggestion of prior criminal activity?

[merv]

I think the quote was something along the lines of "he was known to the police" i.e. a regular is my guess. Also reports had it he was first spotted doing about 130 - 140 and when the cops chased him he took off. Not sure if that was in a 50 or 100 zone in the first place.

[SPman]

Originally posted by merv
Not sure if that was in a 50 or 100 zone in the first place.

100kph outside Waipu - notorius for long high speed straights crawling with cops! I suppose at 10 at night, he thought they all would have gone home&nbsp;&nbsp;

&nbsp;

&nbsp;:argh:

[Kwaka-Kid]

or is jsut to f-ing thick to think in hte first place.. hence why he tried to run and crashed.. hahhaa, this is natures way... its like the weaning process.. it weans out all the idiots on this planet... pity its still got so many to go.. but dont worry.. there is still time :) yeah&nbsp; i hope he died a bloody and painful death, and i hope he felt real bad about the chick.. good riddence you fool (to the rider)

[Coldkiwi]

such a healthy outlook on life you have KK!

I hope you&nbsp;mellow out a bit as you get older or I fear Auckland is going to have one very scary cop on its hands! (or are you planning to try another career?)

[bikerboy]

:D I hear the Columbian School of Despots is accepting applications in Bogata.

And like the NZ police they have no standards and like their applicants very young.

:beer:

[Kwaka-Kid]

hahaha

hey i dont even remember posting that really?! rings s small bell maybe?

hmm... friday night... hmm.. only 8pm? cant have been too bad by then? was i even home?

bah lost as

i worked a 16 hour day yesterday! :D&nbsp; hardout tired.. sleep soon

[Goddess of Goof]

heh heh heh

I agree with KwakaKid, I reckon it's passive eugenics too.

If a guy wants to run from the cops, and blows himself away through

idiocy or mishandling his speed, well so be it.&nbsp; Gotta weed out the drongos

somehow, or they'll all end up as&nbsp; politicians or doctors or lawyers.&nbsp;

In the olden days, they fell off their plough horses, or fell into water troughs to drown, or got an arrow in the neck from a passing nobleman's hunting party.

Problem is, on bikes or in cars, they take out someone innocent with them.

That's the pity of it.&nbsp;

&nbsp;

&nbsp;:done: