Off road terminology??

[bert_is_evil]

Can someone unravel for me the mystery that is off road riding terminology? Lately I've been thinking of going back to my roots, picking up a cheap off road bike and having a blat around some trails, perhaps go to an event or two for a look but am a little confused by the terminology - when I first started riding on my trusty 1971 Honda SL 100 we called it "riding round the river banks".... and I seem to have fallen out of touch since then (though clearly I never was). A quick browse through kiwi rider mag comes up with these to name a few:

scrambles
dirt riding
trail riding
motorcross
enduro
adventure riding
trials

definitions please?

[Motu]

It's a bugger when they change the rules while you were away alright.Motocross is still motocross,trials is still trials,but with more classes,enduros are basicly the same,easier,but faster maybe.Scrambles is something they use to bring back the oldtime feel - natural terrain tracks and a relaxed atmoshere.Because not everyone is competitive,and some people are at an age they can't compete at a top level,they have organised trail rides and adventure rides,the adventure rides needing a road legal bike....they are getting back to the original days where you rode your trail bike to the trails,then rode it back home.Hopefully there is enough to cateer for everyones taste these days....

[bert_is_evil]

Thanks, looks like a trail/adventure ride is what I need to look for.

[SDU]

So what bike are you thinking off getting?

Good to have another off-roading Gal here.

[bert_is_evil]

I have no idea to be honest - any recommendations?

[SDU]

Depends on what riding you are going to do.
Do you like 2 / 4-strokes?
Do you just want a bike to trailer to places.

A dualsporter if you what to do some back roads- paper roads- road trips, where you need a regoed bike. I have found my DR650 a good adventure bike in the short time I've had it plus I commute with it too. It handled the trip to the Brass good without too sore off a butt. My next day off I'm gonna take it out for a blatt around some real muddy (love mud) tight tracks up the river bank. I'm a hobbit so I'm not too sure how I'll be with a big bike on the tight stuff but I found my XT250 & KLX125L good for that sort off stuff, just needed more power for the big open stuff (like an adventure ride around Lees Valley etc) My partner loves his KTM640 & rides just about anywhere with it.
I like the XT600, KLX400 & KTM300EXC. I looked at a Gas Gas pampera it seemed to be quite good too - especially for hobbits.
I'm sure others will have some good rides for you.
Shop around & find what you like.

[bert_is_evil]

Thanks I'll check those out, the DR looks like a good one. I'd like a 4 stroke, something I could take on road as I've gotten rid of the car (2 bikes better than 1 car...). Am looking to upgrade my road bike toward the end of the year too. mmmmm bikes, must have more

[laRIKin]

Well not really the easiest question to answer Bert_is_evil, as every one has their own spin on what they mean.
I will try to explain MY understanding of the names.

Scrambles = An old name for taking more street like bikes, (by today's standards) on and off road tracks and Tourist Trophy type racing.
Or some times used the same way you would use the word motocross.
From what I understand, a journo was watching some bikes trying to get up a hill that was real muddy (back road) and bikes were falling over every where and said "that was a right scramble" (to get those bikes up that hill).
And the name stuck.

Dirt riding= As it says riding (just about any bike) off road and in the dirt.
But normally trail riding, motocross type bikes etc. (not racing)

Trail riding= Riding trails and tracks off road and not racing.

Motocross= Off road racing in a loop, on natural or man made tracks, jumps etc. 20-40minute odd long races.

Enduro= Off road racing that is more like a car rally with check points (you can be to fast or to slow and lose points etc) and limited services times to fix your bike and some are one day events but some can go for 4-6 days.

Adventure riding= A lot like trail riding but with road riding as well, some times covering a lot of ground and for one two many many days of riding.
And you carry or your tent and sleeping bags etc with you.

Trials= Trying to get around a very technical short course marked out (more than one more like 10 short courses and you do them 3 times), with out stopping or putting your foot down as you get points for it and the person with the lowest points win's.

[merv]

Lemans has pretty well covered it but it seemed when I started riding in 1969 scrambles was what everyone called the sort of riding motocross is these days except then it very much was turn up at a farm put up some marker pegs to make a track and get the racing underway. There weren't many purpose built tracks. I'm thinking it was the Yanks that first started calling it motocross where the poms particularly had called it scrambles. Both names were about racing around a closed loop dirt track. Trials was around then too as well as mini-TT's which were like scrambles but usually on flatter and faster terrain.

In the 70's I also did Scott Trials which were again another pommy thing I think where you rode as fast as you could across a long distance loop around a farm or wherever and along the way you had trials sections to tackle where you lost points for putting your feet down in a flagged length section.

About this time I guess TV and films started influencing NZ's thoughts and we started hearing about hare scrambles (now cross country racing - works from a massed start), desert racing that the Yanks do (not many deserts here), enduros which usually have bikes set off in pairs against the clock and we heard of stadium motocross from US (now known as supercross) and the clincher was seeing the film On Any Sunday in 1973.

The interests in various events seemed to come and go along with the bikes the manufacturers produced. The Japs got going with trail bikes starting with the DT1 Yamaha in the late 60's, then they all built motocross and trials bikes in the early 70's, then late 70's and into the 80's enduros were the go and by late 80's into the 90's adventure bikes came along. I guess they were always trying to sell us toys and go with the flow as us old buggers aged and moved from one form of dirt biking to another.

Your choice of bike will very much depend on your height as the hard out bikes these days are very tall. If you want a lot of road and a bit of dirt the DR650 is a good choice for the price and comes with the ability to lower the seat height to 840mm from stock 880mm. They are geared bloody high with only 5 speeds so need serious sprocket changes if you are going to ride in the tight stuff but that means they are capable of up to around 160km/hr. Mrs merv has one of these for road and easy trails and the Yamaha XT250 for tight trails.

If you are small you might prefer something like the XR250L I have as it is lighter and more nimble than the DR650 and has a decent wide ratio 6 speed gearbox so will go up to about 140km/hr but still climb mountains with a low first gear. The Yamaha Mrs merv has the gearbox is even wider ratio 6 speed than the Honda which is great but the engine is only a 225 not a full 250 so its not quite as fast, but the bike only weighs just over 100kg dry compared to the DR650 at 147 and the XR250 at 128.

In the end there are many choices and you just need to match your self and your needs to what is available. Me I always prefer light and fast to heavy and cumbersome because on the dirt expect to drop the bike and you have to be able to pick it up easily.

Adventure rides are great - check out our links on rides over the last few years - you should recognise some of the Wellington scenes:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=27185

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=22901

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=2336

[bert_is_evil]

It's all starting to become clear now :)

The photo's of the rides look like a load of fun, As far as buying a bike goes I'm 5'8" so seat height is not too much of a concern, can comfortably pick up the GSXR (when the wind blows it over of course, I would never drop it....). I like the sound of the XT250, might have to take one for a try.

[cheese]

Honestly, get an XR250, it will go like the clappers and you can trust it.

[far queue]

Good to have another off-roading Gal here.
mmmmmm more dirty girls :innocent:

[far queue]

If you want a lot of road and a bit of dirt the DR650 is a good choice for the price and comes with the ability to lower the seat height to 840mm from stock 880mm. They are geared bloody high with only 5 speeds so need serious sprocket changes if you are going to ride in the tight stuff but that means they are capable of up to around 160km/hr. Mrs merv has one of these for road and easy trails and the Yamaha XT250 for tight trails.
Bloody high geared as stock all right - 15/41. I've changed the rear sprocket to a 44 and have a 13, 14 and 15 for the front which I swap around depending on the ride I'm doing - it's only a 10 minute job. 13 is nice and low and great for the tight stuff. 15 is good for the longer trips like rallies and the dirt roads. If only it was a 6 speed and covered the range properly from low to high it would be an even better dual sport, but nearly all the big singles seem to be 5 speed for some reason. I'm 5'7" and can touch the ground OK with the bike as stock.

[Sparky Bills]

XRXRXRXRXR!!!

Cant go wrong with an XR250:rockon:
They just keep going and going and going and going...

and real easy to get parts for too.
Good luck with your search.

[bert_is_evil]

There seems to be heaps of XR's available on Trademe quite cheaply too

[Wolf]

There seems to be heaps of XR's available on Trademe quite cheaply too
And the other advantage is you'll only have to drop the GS off your current bike's listing in your profile and possibly change the year (unless you are lucky enough to locate an '89 XR250...)

All the best with your search and I look forward to hearing what you eventually get. I find the XT225 (or "XT250R" if you prefer to believe the LTSA rather than the guys who actually made the bloody thing) a great little bike and lots of fun. Personally I find a road-trail style bike an utter weapon in town with traffic and lots of corners/intersections to contend with. I love the agility and it's comfortable (for me) to ride.

[merv]

Bloody high geared as stock all right - 15/41. I've changed the rear sprocket to a 44 and have a 13, 14 and 15 for the front which I swap around depending on the ride I'm doing - it's only a 10 minute job.

Hey where'd you get your sprockets? When White Trash sold us our bike from WMCC he reckoned he could only get the 14T front and no back sprockets to fit because of the 525 chain on it, so we've just run it like that since we've had it geared down slightly.

[mart1]

Yeah xr's the pick of the bunch, they go forever if well maintained.

[cheese]

If you want to start flying though, get a CR250.... LOL

[merv]

If you want to start flying though, get a CR250.... LOL

No good on an adventure ride unless you fit all the gear and road register it.

[far queue]

Hey where'd you get your sprockets? When White Trash sold us our bike from WMCC he reckoned he could only get the 14T front and no back sprockets to fit because of the 525 chain on it, so we've just run it like that since we've had it geared down slightly.
I still run the stock 525 chain, the 14T & 15T front sprockets are 525, the rear 44T and front 13T are 520 size.

The 525 and 520 chains are the same pitch, the only difference is the width, which means a bit of side play in the chain on the sprockets when using 525 chain and 520 sprockets. This isn't a problem at all and in fact helps to clear mud from the chain/sprockets. I've been running this set up for around 2 1/2 years with no problems.

The rear sprocket is just a standard aftermarket 520 one which you should be able to pick up easily enough. The 14T front is a standard Suzuki part, and the 13T front is a standard XR600 part as it's the only one I could find that matched the spline pattern on the output shaft - you'll also need to get the matching plate to hold it on as it's a 2 hole one, unlike the standard 3 hole one.

[cheese]

No good on an adventure ride unless you fit all the gear and road register it.


Yeah but it would be more fun.

I love 2 strokes! :rockon: :blip: :blip: :blip:

[Wolf]

Yeah xr's the pick of the bunch, they go forever if well maintained.
That could describe nearly anything, even a Delorian.

What you need is something that goes forever even if you never maintain it. My old TS was like that - sadly abused, never maintained (unless you count applying muffler bandage to the damaged exhaust to make it less of a police magnet as "maintenance") and it kept running. So long as I put petrol and two-stroke oil into it and occasionally gave it a top up of engine oil (changing your oil? WTF is that? Just throw a few mils in when it's getting a bit low...) it didn't care what we did to it. I eventually sold it in running and road legal - but somewhat less than cosmetically pleasing - condition. For all I know it's still blatting around out there unless the new owner inadvertently rode it into a blast furnace.

[TwoSeven]

Something you guys could talk about is the difference between the bikes. For the novice, I suspect that when you look in the bike mags they talk about mx bikes, dirt bikes, trail bikes, enduro bikes etc. But when you go to the dealer, there is just a set of bikes that all look the same.

Ditto with the kit required.

[Motu]

Well,kinda like sportsbikes - they all look like sportsbikes,because everyone wants the girls to think they are fast riders......but only some are really sportsbikes.

All dirt bikes need to look like MXers,or at least that's what the marketing men think we think we want.Just got to look enough to get familiar with them,with the code names.Plenty of tricky numbers to miss,or get turned on by a dog.My DT230 is typicaly one that's overlooked,or too puzzling to figure out - of course I think it's the best bike ever made and everyone else is stupid not to have one.

[bert_is_evil]

Something you guys could talk about is the difference between the bikes. For the novice, I suspect that when you look in the bike mags they talk about mx bikes, dirt bikes, trail bikes, enduro bikes etc. But when you go to the dealer, there is just a set of bikes that all look the same.

Ditto with the kit required.

That's so true, if someone could give a quick description of the major differences between the bike styles that would be really helpful.

[cheese]

MX bike - hard revving hard riding, all power up top, made to jump and go fast light bikes, stand up to ride.

enduro - larger fly wheel - more bottom end grunt, some have electric start, slightly larger fuel tanks, made to be rode sitting down

[laRIKin]

That's so true, if someone could give a quick description of the major differences between the bike styles that would be really helpful.

I will try again for you.

Motocross= A race bike, designed to go fast over rough ground. Not as nice to ride slow has no electric start, no side stand and very firm suspension and smaller fuel tank and a hard seat and no lights. Can not be easy regoed.

Trail bike= is at the other end of the scale. More road than dirt but can do both reasonably well.

Enduro bike= Is a up graded trail bike. That has better gear on it and is a bit more of a race bike that can be trail ridden faster than a trail bike, off road.
Can be regoed and adventure ridden. Lighter in weight that has a head light that is not be as good as a trail bike and could have a harder seat, that could only have room for one. (my pick the only down side is weaker lights at night and a harder seat than can be modified to be nicer and can take the knocks better) And will have a plastic tank and a trail bike could have a steel tank.

Adventure riding= Is more a form of riding and can be a twin cylinder bike to cover a lot of road work. But can be trail ridden.
Because they can be a twin they are heavier and are better for gravel road and road work, unless you can ride fairly well to handle the weight etc off road.
Better two up bike than the rest.

Trials= A modern bike has no real seat (you stand up all the time), very small tank and may or may not be regoed.

I think that you should be looking at a trail or a enduro bike. (a single).
If you think that you can handle a bit of weight and want to do a bit of 100 kph work on the motor ways etc, I think that you should look a a 400 to a 650 single.

[bert_is_evil]

Hey thanks that's great. Now I know what type of riding I'd like to do and what type of bike I need to do it. Thanks everyone for your input so far :)