Firearms charges?

[Swoop]

Tame Iti guilty of firearms charges

UPDATED 11.40am Friday June 30, 2006

Maori activist Tame Iti was found guilty of firearms charges in a reserved decision delivered in Rotorua District Court today.

After a week-long trial ended a fortnight ago, Judge Chris McGuire said he had to consider substantive issues of fact and law.

The prosecution has been seen as a test case on whether use of firearms for traditional Maori ceremonies is a crime under the Arms Act 1983.

Iti, a 55-year-old health worker, had pleaded not guilty to two charges of unlawfully possessing a shotgun at Ruatoki in the Eastern Bay of Plenty during a welcome for the Waitangi Tribunal last year to hear historic Tuhoe land claims.

Crown prosecutors had argued that Iti could not have had a lawful purpose for possessing the double-barrel shotgun he fired repeatedly during a re-enactment of the Crown's "scorched earth" policy of the 1860s because he did not hold a firearms licence.

But defence lawyers claimed the purpose need not be one that was expressly sanctioned by law. Tuhoe believed Iti was acting within their laws and under their direction.

Iti was fined $300 on each charge and ordered to pay $260 costs.
- NZPA



WHAT???
A piddly bloody fine for an unlicenced person, discharging a firearm in a public place!!!
What a crock!

[Sniper]

Its ridiculous. Watch any other New Zealander do that and there will be shit load more to pay than that.

[The_Dover]

Yeah, watch me get arse raped for exceeding a fucking speedlimit when I go to court.

Maybe I should discharge a firearm in there?

[MSTRS]

Right - I'm off to get a tan and to change my name (Wiremu Hohepa sounds like a go):oi-grr:

[Colapop]

How is using a firearm traditional Maori culture? I was always (may any Maori correct me) under the impression that firearms were a European introduction...

[Sniper]

Wiremu Hohepa sounds like a go
Here a mu, there a mu, everywhere a mu mu

[Drum]

Cost to the taxpayer? $300K? $400K?.......

We sure showed him. I bet he respects us now.

[cruxis]

That seems fair and about right to me. Was not a big deal the media made it so.

I quite often like to shoot possums from the balcony of our batch during the summer hoildays. Next time tama should have a person nearby that holds a license. Since he dont have one. It get one himself.

[Colapop]

He can just get the Republic of Aoteoroa to issue him one, bro.

[Deano]

I believe the point that was raised was that Tuhoe had been doing it for years, in full view of the 'authorities' with no come backs until it was perhaps politically expedient to do so.

Not that I agree with it as I don't have all the info - perhaps the person discharging the firearm in the past had a licence ?

Having said that - is it legal to shoot the NZ flag ?

[Sniper]

Having said that - is it legal to shoot the NZ flag ?
Im under the impression that it is illegal to deface any flag regardless of whos. In the US its a felony.

[Biohazard]

RANT TIME ------- RANT RANT RANT RANT

WTF are you f*cking retarded Judges doing, you are all fat, child molesting retards...Stop being gay and being scared that you'll hurt someones feelings. Just because the Maori's were given a hard time years ago, you think you can make it up by letting them off with this and that, as you are worried about a back lash.

Put him in jail ffs - illegal use and discharge of a firearm in a public place. Bollocks to the religious/cult reason. STOP letting them hide and get away with it all.

Arrrggggghhhhhhhhhhh.....thats the only problem with the Country that and Helen Clarke is a pussy and to scared to stand up to anything.

BnP should open a sub-branch in Auckland, that'll put the cat umongst the pigeons :blip:

[SPman]

The only reason he was charged in the first place, is because he was Tama Iti!
But - the media just cant resist - they're easier to work into a frenzy than most of the people on here, and the police and pollys were happy to oblige!
What a waste of time and money.

[Goblin]

Right - I'm off to get a tan and to change my name (Wiremu Hohepa sounds like a go):oi-grr:
You'd have to scribble all over your face too:yes:

Anyone else would have been imprisoned for these charges. Reminded me of an old mate years ago...We had a night out on the town & Barry was totally off his trolly. We were driving around in a Morrie thou and stopped at a gas station to fuel up & Barry in his drunken state pulled a bright orange water pistol out and slurred "this is a stick-up" The attendant ran inside & grabbed a crowbar & threatened to smash us all! We tried to calm him down & point out that its a only a water pistol & the drunk doesnt even know what day it is, let alone want to rob you. Next thing the cops turn up & arrest him for Agravated armed robbery!:gob: He got 3 months! Thats justice for ya!

[sAsLEX]

What a waste of time and money.

So your saying we should of allowed him to flout this countries laws!? On national television showing the youths that take him as a role model, god help them, that doing this is fine!?

Where do you draw the line? Is it ok to shoplift? Is it ok to kill babies?

[MSTRS]

How is using a firearm traditional Maori culture? I was always (may any Maori correct me) under the impression that firearms were a European introduction...
Obviously when something has been done/existed for long enough, it becomes 'traditional'

Where do you draw the line? Is it ok to shoplift? Is it ok to kill babies?
God help us all....

[GR81]

Is it ok to kill babies?yes, just ask the Kahui family!

[Pixie]

If that's what a tame iti gets up to,I don't want to meet a wild one

[Pixie]

How is using a firearm traditional Maori culture? I was always (may any Maori correct me) under the impression that firearms were a European introduction...
Reality is whatever maoris say it is .
Like the one that reckoned they've been here for 40,000 years

[Biohazard]

Reality is whatever maoris say it is .
Like the one that reckoned they've been here for 40,000 years

roflmao that ol' chestnut...So if they have been here for that long, why the fook haven't they made any great economic/social achievements and why are they the manority and not "the whites".

Excuses excuses

[GR81]

If that's what a tame iti gets up to,I don't want to meet a wild onehe looked pretty wild to me!

[spudchucka]

I believe the point that was raised was that Tuhoe had been doing it for years,
If thats the case then they should at least ensure that the person carrying out the display is at least lawfully entitled to possess a firearm, (holds a firearms licence). And there can be no reasonable excuse, as far as I'm concerned, for discharging live rounds in close proximity to a large group of onlookers.

[The_Dover]

BnP should open a sub-branch in Auckland, that'll put the cat umongst the pigeons :blip:


I think they'd be a bit confused as to why the British National Party should give a shit about Aoteraoa though.

We don't own this shit anymore, technically.

[Biohazard]

I think they'd be a bit confused as to why the British National Party should give a shit about Aoteraoa though.

We don't own this shit anymore, technically.

You know what I meant, stop splitting hairs you...:innocent:

I meant a party slightly right than right.

[The_Dover]

Labour?

hmmmm

[Hoon]

The only reason he was charged in the first place, is because he was Tama Iti!
But - the media just cant resist - they're easier to work into a frenzy than most of the people on here, and the police and pollys were happy to oblige!
What a waste of time and money.

Yep thats right. Guns have been fired in these displays for years. The only reason charges were brought up this time is because it was done by a high profile Maori activist. In fact I think it was Rodney Hide who put the pressure on the Police (who didn't really care and knew it was a waste of taxpayers resources) to lay charges.

The sentence seems right to me. If an actor in a play were to discharge a pistol during a performance without the correct paper work would you expect him to go to prison?? Keep in mind that Tama Iti also was using blanks. If your reasoning that he should go to prison is influenced by the fact he is a Maori activist then it's you that needs the judgement check.

A complete waste of time if you ask me. Only the media and politicians gain from it. Acheived nothing except wasting taxpayers money and fueling more anti-Maori sentiments.

[Sniper]

He did use a live round to shoot the flag as well Hoon

[Ixion]

Goodness me. That could be dangerous. Discharging live rounds in the midst of a mass of spectators, some of the spectators might be killed.

Uh - , um, those spectators, yeah, less see- who were they now? . Oh yeah. That's right. THOSE spectators. I'll start up a collection to buy Tame some more ammo shall I. ?

[The_Dover]

I'll give you fifty bucks to start you off.

[sAsLEX]

I'll give you fifty bucks to start you off.

Finn could prob spare a few peso's for your little outing

[Winston001]

Yep thats right. Guns have been fired in these displays for years. The only reason charges were brought up this time is because it was done by a high profile Maori activist. In fact I think it was Rodney Hide who put the pressure on the Police (who didn't really care and knew it was a waste of taxpayers resources) to lay charges.

The sentence seems right to me. If an actor in a play were to discharge a pistol during a performance without the correct paper work would you expect him to go to prison?? Keep in mind that Tama Iti also was using blanks. If your reasoning that he should go to prison is influenced by the fact he is a Maori activist then it's you that needs the judgement check.

A complete waste of time if you ask me. Only the media and politicians gain from it. Acheived nothing except wasting taxpayers money and fueling more anti-Maori sentiments.

Well said. Simply discharging a firearm in public does not result in prison. Total media beat-up.

[The_Dover]

Hang on, we castigate all unlicenced drivers/riders yet an activist with absolutely no respect for the "white mans" law can fire a weapon in public, without the correct licence????

Fucking nuts mate. Does that mean I can run around with an unlicenced weapon? Sweet.

[pritch]

Keep in mind that Tama Iti also was using blanks.

He did use blanks but he also used at least one live round to shoot the flag.
It is still a crime in this country to deface the flag but in one recent instance the judge discharged on the grounds of freedom of speech.

I think Americans are guaranteed the right of free speech under their constitution. Our Bill of Rights is probably much less robust. A lot of people of my aquaintance were pissed off at the aquittal in the recent case where a Wellington teacher burnt the flag.

As someone else pointed out though discharging a firearm in a public place would get most people more than a $300 fine.

[cruxis]

I am glad I can still shoot shit up with me mates out the back of the farm and its only a fine if we get caught. The judge showed good sense. It was no big deal as long as you never point a firearm at a person.

[Lias]

Descration of the flag in NZ is still illegal on the books, however the statute has only been used once in the last 25ish years, and that case was thrown out by a judge.

I cant find a link to the aftermath, but heres a link to the initial story about the Wellington SCHOOL TEACHER who burnt the flag and was charged with desecrating the flag as well as a few other offenses.
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425822/175299

He got off scott free in the end, and went out and burnt another flag in public to celebrate. At the very least this piece of trash should have been stripped of his ability to teach in a NZ school, and preferrably publically flogged but no our goverment is a bunch of PC wankers who think its okay to do these things and teach our kids that burning the flag is fine.

Call me old fashioned but personally I think intentionally descrating our flag should be worth at least 100 lashes in public if not a good old noose.

[Lias]

You know what I meant, stop splitting hairs you...:innocent:

I meant a party slightly right than right.
*cough* New Zealand National Front *cough*

[Hoon]

As someone else pointed out though discharging a firearm in a public place would get most people more than a $300 fine.

I disagree. I'm no law buff but you and many others may be confusing this with "Discharging a firearm with reckless disregard for public safety".
If I stepped out onto the road outside my house and shot at a duck flying overhead I'd probably get diversion. However if I was taking pot shots at passing vehicles it would be a different story.

[Ixion]

*cough* New Zealand National Front *cough*

I believe Maurice and Dover are fo(u)nd(l)ing memebers of the "New Zealand National Rear" party. (Geez, I'm on a roll tonite, evry1 a gem)

[Hoon]

He did use blanks but he also used at least one live round to shoot the flag.

What is your source for this? One of the organisers said he was using blanks and judging by the zero recoil in the footage (http://tvnz.co.nz/view/video_popup_windows_skin/472001) I tend to believe them. Bit hard to prove after the point but the fact that the sentence is so light is maybe because this was accepted?

Feel free to correct me.

[Kickaha]

IIn the US its a felony.

They can get away with burning it under "freedom of speech"

[Deano]

Judge has ruled he should have fired blanks instead of live rounds, as he was apparently told to do. He would have avoided a conviction.

He could also 'apparently' have been done for desecrating the NZ flag, but it is reported that this was enough of a message.

Fat little angry man. Take it on the chin sucker.

[Flatcap]

This Iti fool gets far too much airtime - he is just a silly little fat man with stupid tough stickers on his face with nothing relevant to say.

I wish the media would stop broadcasting anything he says or does

[Sniper]

They can get away with burning it under "freedom of speech"

Is that on US soil though? I couble be wrong, but Im sure defacing the US flag on their soil can get you into a huge amount of trouble with a few govt authorities

[Colapop]

What is your source for this? One of the organisers said he was using blanks and judging by the zero recoil in the footage (http://tvnz.co.nz/view/video_popup_windows_skin/472001) I tend to believe them. Bit hard to prove after the point but the fact that the sentence is so light is maybe because this was accepted?

Feel free to correct me.
Your points are valid Hoon. If it was any other NZer it may not have been such an issue. I don't believe there is wide spread anti-maori nationlist feeling throughout NZ. I think the issue is that people generally are pissed off with activists cornering the media, the judicial system and the extremist sympathy vote for 'causes'. NZ, as I have stated beofre, is a country built up over a period of timeby a variety of peoples from a variety of backgrounds. There are nop longer any native people of this land. Maori, by their own reckoning, are immigrants (did they not arrive here by the great canoes?) and as such should have the same rights as every other NZer.
There are a hell of a lot of fantastic people in this country - Maori, Samoan, Chinese, Indian, even a couple of European decent. Why should one group of people, who 'feel' agrieved be allowed to hold the majority to ransom? Tama Iti is an activist who makes a living by encouraging division. There are justifiable grievances, granted, that are being addressed by a governmetally set up tribunal. It is only the activists that realise their forecast revenue gathering opportunities will be dismissed if the official process actually proceeds without impedence.
That is though at the end of the day, regardless of your political views, the guy committed a crime and a grossly irresponsible act and has been punished, case closed move on. Activists lose their power if everyone ignores them. Where is John Minto now?

[Grahameeboy]

How is using a firearm traditional Maori culture? I was always (may any Maori correct me) under the impression that firearms were a European introduction...

So is P and they blame Pakeha for that too.....

[boomer]

Hang on, we castigate all unlicenced drivers/riders yet an activist with absolutely no respect for the "white mans" law can fire a weapon in public, without the correct licence????

Fucking nuts mate. Does that mean I can run around with an unlicenced weapon? Sweet.


yeah bro.. tell 'em you have a 'rara' licence!! you look as black as the next islander to me :lol:

This little black boys gonna go cut down some trees.... back soon.........:bye:

[diggydog]

look there seems to be a law for them and another law for us, so who is the one under priveledged.
look even our cops are getting the bash, as if trying to keep order and female cops need to be helped out by male offices when gets too tough.

[boomer]

...He could also 'apparently' have been done for desecrating the NZ flag, but it is reported that this was enough of a message.


If spittin on the Queen is acceptable.. then im sure wiping your ass with the kiwi flag aint a biggie. Lets put things into perspective here white boy!!

[Grahameeboy]

look there seems to be a law for them and another law for us, so who is the one under priveledged.
look even our cops are getting the bash, as if trying to keep order and female cops need to be helped out by male offices when gets too tough.

Yep sadly it happens when there are minority issues.......easy way to blame someone else.....racism comes to mind but racism also happens to whites too, just it seems to be assumed otherwise.

[sAsLEX]

Call me old fashioned but personally I think intentionally descrating our flag should be worth at least 100 lashes in public if not a good old noose.

Would quite happily walk over to the guy smack him over the head and set him on fire, and I know quite a few people that would do the same, alot of people have died and still fight for that flag and what right does he have to burn it!

[SPman]

This Iti fool gets far too much airtime - he is just a silly little fat man with stupid tough stickers on his face ....

I wish the media would stop broadcasting anything he says or does

No stickers there, mate - all his own...

[98tls]

does the fat bastard have a job?maybe if he did then we wouldnt have to see his stupid fat arse on our televisions...get a job raise some kids and pay the mortgage and he will be to busy for all that activist crap...its 2006 he needs to just accept that fact and move on,all he is doing is inciting racism which in said year there is no place for and as a country would be better off without.

[Swoop]

The simple issue here is public safety.
The person convicted, used a firearm in a public place. Period.
Live rounds of ammunition were fired. Also by looking at the angle at which they were fired, there existed the possibilty of a ricochet which could have injured a nearby person.

At the very least OSH should press for charges to be laid for the environment in which this event occurred.

[sAsLEX]

At the very least OSH should press for charges to be laid for the environment in which this event occurred.

Are Maraes covered under OSH!?



seriousish question

[Winston001]

Is that on US soil though? I could be wrong, but I'm sure defacing the US flag on their soil can get you into a huge amount of trouble with a few govt authorities

Yes but No. They get hugely upset but the US Supreme Court has consistantly upheld the right to desecrate the flag:

Flag Desecration Amendment (1990, 1995, 1997, 1999-2000, 2001, 2003, 2005-2006): Congress has made seven attempts to overrule the U.S. Supreme Court by passing a constitutional amendment making an exception to the First Amendment in order to allow the government to ban flag desecration. In 1990, when the amendment was first brought up, it failed to achieve the necessary two-thirds majority in the House. After the Republican congressional takeover of 1994, it has consistently passed the House but failed in the Senate.

[Kickaha]

Yes but No. They get hugely upset but the US Supreme Court has consistantly upheld the right to desecrate the flag:

Flag Desecration Amendment (1990, 1995, 1997, 1999-2000, 2001, 2003, 2005-2006): Congress has made seven attempts to overrule the U.S. Supreme Court by passing a constitutional amendment making an exception to the First Amendment in order to allow the government to ban flag desecration. In 1990, when the amendment was first brought up, it failed to achieve the necessary two-thirds majority in the House. After the Republican congressional takeover of 1994, it has consistently passed the House but failed in the Senate.

It was reported in the Chch Press that they voted on it again two days ago and again it failed to to get the two thirds majority

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/single-vote-blocks-us-move-to-make-flagburning-a-crime/2006/06/28/1151174268993.html

[MD]

Would quite happily walk over to the guy smack him over the head and set him on fire, and I know quite a few people that would do the same, alot of people have died and still fight for that flag and what right does he have to burn it!
Totally agree. What gave him the right to insult an emblem of this nation that so many hard working generations before us hacked out of the bush and died for in wars.
That bit pissed me off more than the firearms thing. I look forward to a whitie starting the inaugural 'shoot a tiki in a crowded place' Settlers cutural tradition and getting away with it- yeah right.

[Deano]

If spittin on the Queen is acceptable.. then im sure wiping your ass with the kiwi flag aint a biggie. Lets put things into perspective here white boy!!

??????

10 confused ch

[Swoop]

Are Maraes covered under OSH!?



seriousish question
I would imagine any place of public gathering would be under their jurisdiction.
Correct me if I'm wrong though.

[Winston001]

Are Maraes covered under OSH!?



serious question

Actually that's a bloody good question. Yes they are if they are a place of work = paid employment. But otherwise, No. OSH only applies to workplaces.

Funnily enough you can smoke on a marae to your heart(attack)s content but not in other gathering places. :gob:

[Winston001]

Tame shouldn't mess around with piffling shotties when there is a much better choice........





Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy."
And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals ...
Now did the Lord say, "First thou pullest the Holy Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three.
Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand Grenade in the direction of thine foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."

[Lias]

I wonder if the "entertainment" at a party I attended a few years ago in Hawkes Bay counts as the white version of his protest.. The lads whos house it was had done a mission down the road, sawed down a large carved maori post from somewhere and took great delight in setting it on fire in the backyard..

I should dig out the photos and send them to Tame Iti and see if he has a heart attack :-P

[Finn]

Can't we all just get along? Think of the children for christ sake!

[sAsLEX]

Funnily enough you can smoke on a marae to your heart(attack)s content but not in other gathering places. :gob:

Irony anyone? The race with the biggest smoking problem in the world is allowed free reign to inflict their habit on others in their place of gathering but no one else in New Zealand can, not even in a Cigar bar! Fuck another law well done!