SUV Deathtraps

[rodgerd]

So, which do you think would do better in a crash test? A Ford F150 or a Mini? You might be surprised (http://www.bridger.us/2002/12/16/CrashTestingMINICooperVsFordF150).

Also of note is that based off US crash stats, the safest cars appear tpo be predominantly mid sized (in US terms) like the Camry. And that the Remuera Tractors are not only often less safe (tell the soccer mums!), but far, far more lethal to others.

[SPman]

So, which do you think would do better in a crash test? A Ford F150 or a Mini? Dependant totally on circumstances, surely. A Mini would be better able to avoid a crash. Most SUV's (that I've driven) dont handle all that well and would be more inclined to not avoid a crash.

Now I'll tread the article!

[James Deuce]

In any accident, the heavier vehicle is more likely to kill the occupant of the lighter vehicle, irrespective of safety ratings or testing. Kinetic energy is no respecter of theory or design.

[rodgerd]

In any accident, the heavier vehicle is more likely to kill the occupant of the lighter vehicle, irrespective of safety ratings or testing. Kinetic energy is no respecter of theory or design.

Of course. I mean, a rusty badly designed light truck will always do better than a well-designed, immaculate car. *rolls eyes*

You might want to read the actual crash data (from real life collisions) and suchlike the article links to.

[Jackrat]

I agree with jim and trust nobody that quotes stat's.
No offence intended.

I drive a two ton Nissan patrol and know what the out come will be if some body runs into it.Full chasis,not one of these pretend part time SUV things.The handling thing will always be an issue but the people driving 4x4s have to be aware of that,Or made aware.
I don't drive my Nissan like it was a compact, plus it has up graded suspension.
To me the biggest issue with large vehicules of any type is the way in which they are driven.It never fails to amaze me that some owners are not aware of the greater roll over potentual of a high vehicule.
My own 4x4 it not really an SUV as it is an older full chasis thingy that was made before shiney bull bars became a status symbol.Damn I even drive it off road every day.Mud?? What's with that huh??
Hmmmm,can we say Possum borne.
Wonder what he would say about stat's an studys. <_<

PS, Sounds rather callous for sure, but I am and have been a biker since before I could hold a licence.I already know all about which vehicules are most likely to be fatal to me in an accident,any of them.when I am in my 4x4 I don't really care about that part of the issue.Car drivers don't give a damn about me when I'm on me bike an I don't give a damn about them when I'm in my 4x4.As for bikers we have had to live with it since day dot.

[Hitcher]

In any accident, the heavier vehicle is more likely to kill the occupant of the lighter vehicle, irrespective of safety ratings or testing. Kinetic energy is no respecter of theory or design.

Ye cannae change the laws of physics Jim(2)!!

Och aye, beam me up Scottie...

[FROSTY]

i get to drive a lot of different vehicles every day. Something you guys need to know is that almost without exception those tractors take a shit load of stopping. Youd have thought -big truck big brakes--but nope .
And yep they rarely handle--one exception is th 3.0 terrano 99 on
as for safety Id pick the mini any day

[Motu]

These tests just show that the SUV has no crumple zones - so if I run into a brick wall with my Pajero I'm going to be worse off than the guy who does the same thing in a Civic....but if I run into the Civic I might hurt him,but I'll be ok....if I run over Jack on his XS650,he won't be able to get up and thump me.

[FROSTY]

yea but if he does you better hope like heck the central locking works :)

[Lou Girardin]

SUV's one saving grace is that they regularly kill their drivers.

[wkid_one]

It will be interesting to see when the 'bullbar' rules come in to effect. Meaning the drivers need to ensure when fitting after market BB's that they comply with the vehicles crumple zones and occupant restraint systems. This will see most of them have to have Airbag sensors.

In saying the statement about most SUV's killing their occupants. This is changing - this was largely due to 4WD's being built on a ladder chassis - which in an accident transfers most of the force of the accident in to the cabin of the vehicle as it has no crumple zones. HOwever - if you have read the latest mags - most of the SUV's now are going for the monocoque chassis the same as in cars which means they can incorporate crumple zones in to the vehicles with the same dynamics as cars. THis chassis also improves the road holding ability of the vehicles.

Personally - I would always buy an SUV over a car...

[Hitcher]

It will be interesting to see when the 'bullbar' rules come in to effect. Meaning the drivers need to ensure when fitting after market BB's that they comply with the vehicles crumple zones and occupant restraint systems. This will see most of them have to have Airbag sensors.

In saying the statement about most SUV's killing their occupants. This is changing - this was largely due to 4WD's being built on a ladder chassis - which in an accident transfers most of the force of the accident in to the cabin of the vehicle as it has no crumple zones. HOwever - if you have read the latest mags - most of the SUV's now are going for the monocoque chassis the same as in cars which means they can incorporate crumple zones in to the vehicles with the same dynamics as cars. THis chassis also improves the road holding ability of the vehicles.

Personally - I would always buy an SUV over a car...

Bull bars should be banned. Their sole purpose is to intimidate other road users or maim pedestrians. They impart no useful protection to the vehicles on which they are fitted, other than saving plastic fittings and paintwork. We aren't living in the Australian outback where we need to protect our vehicles from wandering stock or kangaroos -- and even in those circumstances, an aluminium bull bar (with as much tensile strength as a banana) would be piss useless.

[Jackrat]

Bull bars should be banned. Their sole purpose is to intimidate other road users or maim pedestrians. They impart no useful protection to the vehicles on which they are fitted, other than saving plastic fittings and paintwork. We aren't living in the Australian outback where we need to protect our vehicles from wandering stock or kangaroos -- and even in those circumstances, an aluminium bull bar (with as much tensile strength as a banana) would be piss useless.
I agree that BB have no use in town but they have a lot of use on the land and I'm fucked if I should be constrained by the odd chance that some fuckwit townie is going to run into me.As for your comment about running into a kangaroo or wandering stock,I've done both an my bars saved me from a heap of damage.
Ands for your comment about intimidating other road users and maiming pedestrians.Christ we have to defend motorcycling from this type of crap,now we get the same crap from bikers.The same thing applys to both,,If their so fucken bad,how come I'm not dead already???.
After all I've owned four 4x4s and over twenty bikes,,so were's the trail of destruction??
Shit go by a Toyota corolla and watch out for the boogie man.

[White trash]

Shit go by a Toyota corolla and watch out for the boogie man.

:Oi: I own a Corolla and am the "Boogie man"

[James Deuce]

Of course. I mean, a rusty badly designed light truck will always do better than a well-designed, immaculate car. *rolls eyes*

You might want to read the actual crash data (from real life collisions) and suchlike the article links to.

I say, that is a bit of a rude reply. I did read your links and you may want to try casting the net a bit wider before you base your belief system on one article.

It doesn't matter how rusty or badly designed the light truck is, it will always transfer more energy to a smaller vehicle. The occupants in both vehicles may die and the larger may well be less safe, but my statement still stands. You are more likely to die if you are the occupant of a vehicle that is physically smaller, both in dimensions and mass.

[Motu]

I'm suprised at how that F150 crumpled,I can't see how it could do that with a full chassis.There is the whole kinetic enegy and stuff that people are talking about,but I thought the major reason SUVs faired worse in these tests was because they didn't crumple.Next time I see one of these sitting at the lights I'm going to get out and have a look underneath.

I wonder how the Japanese forward control vans like my Nissan Vanette do in crash tests? I know I never feel safe in mine - if anything happens I'm sitting right out there with nothing around me.I once saw a bike (CB500) hit a C20 van in the drivers door - the bike rode away with no damage,but the van couldn't be moved...the drivers floor had been pushed up and the pedals couldn't be used.I thought that was funny at the time - but now I'm driving one!

[Deano]

Anyone driven round Eastbourne, Lower Hutt?

Probably similar to the 'soccer mum' mentality out there.

Peroxide blonde mum's (wives of Dr's, lawyers and the like) done up to the nines using their big 4WD's to drop the kids at school and do the shopping - seems to be more of some sort of status symbol. What a joke - I hope they are paying through the nose for petrol at the moment.

[Drunken Monkey]

This is changing - this was largely due to 4WD's being built on a ladder chassis - which in an accident transfers most of the force of the accident in to the cabin of the vehicle as it has no crumple zones. HOwever - if you have read the latest mags - most of the SUV's now are going for the monocoque chassis the same as in cars which means they can incorporate crumple zones in to the vehicles with the same dynamics as cars. THis chassis also improves the road holding ability of the vehicles.

Yeah, what he said... Current "SUV's" and their ilk are not the same cars they were 10 or 20 years ago.

[Lou Girardin]

- if you have read the latest mags - most of the SUV's now are going for the monocoque chassis the same as in cars which means they can incorporate crumple zones in to the vehicles with the same dynamics as cars. THis chassis also improves the road holding ability of the vehicles.

Personally - I would always buy an SUV over a car...

True, but our SUV fleet is still almost solely 5 to 10 year old Jap tanks.
They're still the epitome of selfishness.

[Kickaha]

I wonder how the Japanese forward control vans like my Nissan Vanette do in crash tests?


Badly! we wrote a L300 off on a ride one day,although we did throw 3 bikes it to wreck it.

[wkid_one]

Bull bars should be banned. Their sole purpose is to intimidate other road users or maim pedestrians. Or if you actually use your SUV properly - they protect your headlights and tail-lights from being smashed by branches, fenceposts etc. Bull Bars do in fact serve a purpose...... What are you supposed to do however - stop and unbolt them once you have finished using it to fetch your horse, load your pig from hunting and then throw it in the back.

Bull bars don't intimidate or maim - the fucken driver does.

I have yet to see a stationary bull bar do any of the things you are talking about.

I think I will yell obsenities and kick the next bull bar I see to see if I can provoke it to do the things you mention.

[wkid_one]

I actually remembered someone in the car park downstairs has bull bars. I went down and yelled at it, kicked it, yelled some more and kicked it some more....fuck the thing didn't even move let alone try and maim me. It did intimidate me somewhat tho with its impassiveness to the whole situation.

[Mongoose]

Information I have seen indicates that the SUV hitting a *normal* car hits it so high up, specially in a T-bone situation, that it misses all the safety features of the car, side intrusion bars etc. But then again, the blonde bimbo's you refer to will probabley have a roll over swerving to avoid a fluffy animal.

[Hitcher]

Or if you actually use your SUV properly - they protect your headlights and tail-lights from being smashed by branches, fenceposts etc. Bull Bars do in fact serve a purpose...... What are you supposed to do however - stop and unbolt them once you have finished using it to fetch your horse, load your pig from hunting and then throw it in the back.

Bull bars don't intimidate or maim - the fucken driver does.

I have yet to see a stationary bull bar do any of the things you are talking about.

I think I will yell obsenities and kick the next bull bar I see to see if I can provoke it to do the things you mention.

If you feel compelled to drive into fenceposts and branches then you need more than a bull bar! I reckon less than 5% of SUVs go off road. If the bangs and dings theory holds, then all vehicles should be festooned with aluminium pipe. What the hey, let's all drive tanks!

I defer to the rest of your argument -- "guns don't kill, people kill." [Tui slogan fades to grey]

[Jinx3d]

I dont have them but I have considered fitting them, they arent for intimidating but purely for self defense in car parks.


A large proportion of people just cant park.

[Jackrat]

I dont have them but I have considered fitting them, they arent for intimidating but purely for self defense in car parks.


A large proportion of people just cant park.

Good point,My mrs has a RAV4 that she has had for about two months.
Two car park dings so far.My Nissan none and if any body has hit it I hope they had fun because it don't show on my heavy steel bumpers or the heavy alloy running boards.And as for Lou's comment about selfishness,wellcoming from somebody that owns the most single person vehicule on the roads that's a bloody joke.I can and do fit five people plus gear into my Nissan and transport them anywhere in the country cheaper than a 1200cc bike wiith one on board.
But then some only had one eye right.

[wkid_one]

Good point,My mrs has a RAV4 that she has had for about two months.
Two car park dings so far.My Nissan none and if any body has hit it I hope they had fun because it don't show on my heavy steel bumpers or the heavy alloy running boards.And as for Lou's comment about selfishness,wellcoming from somebody that owns the most single person vehicule on the roads that's a bloody joke.I can and do fit five people plus gear into my Nissan and transport them anywhere in the country cheaper than a 1200cc bike wiith one on board.
But then some only had one eye right.
Well put !!!! :first:

[Motu]

Has anyone driven the first SUVs? - the original army Jeep and the later series 1 Landrover.They are very small and light,you are very connected to what they are doing,like the steering etc.In size they are not very much bigger than the Suzuki SJ410.They were very capable off road and comforts spatan - it's said they made them so uncomfortable to keep the speed down,could be true cause they are worse than a ridgid frame motorcycle to drive in.They have come a long way since then,but so have motorcycles - although no one in their right mind would have got one for driving around town.

The ultimate SUV?....Adams Landscapes in Panmure was a family business and when the old boy finaly gave up and let the kids take over he kept a company vehicle for himself - an Avling Barford front end loader! They took the bucket off it and this was his daily drive,we would see him everwhere in the area,he used to go into Otahuhu and you often saw it angle parked in the main street in Panmure - he must of loved that thing! A selfish single seater,but I wouldn't of liked to take him on Jack!

[wkid_one]

Had a 1983 Mitsi Jeep - styled exactly of the Willy's Jeep. Was great fun. Only four gears so it howled on the Motorway. Soft Top, Roll Bar, Drop Screen etc etc.

Was a hoot.

[DEATH_INC.]

I'm with jack,mine goes offroad,I use the bars for crashing through the bush,as the dents and scrapes along the sides attest too.
As a bonus,they also stop fuckwits in cars from pulling out in front of me,like they do to me on my bike,or in the missus's car.
I don't care what the 'tests' say,talk to Draco,or Rider in black,who scrape up the mess after an accident and see what they say.....and yes,next to motorcycles,vans are the worst.

[scumdog]

Anyone driven round Eastbourne, Lower Hutt?

Probably similar to the 'soccer mum' mentality out there.

Peroxide blonde mum's (wives of Dr's, lawyers and the like) done up to the nines using their big 4WD's to drop the kids at school and do the shopping - seems to be more of some sort of status symbol. What a joke - I hope they are paying through the nose for petrol at the moment.

I feel sorry for those mums stuck with a "softroader" - hard to park, gutless for passing and just wait 'til they get a flat tyre!!! :buggerd:

[scumdog]

Good point,My mrs has a RAV4 that she has had for about two months.
Two car park dings so far.My Nissan none and if any body has hit it I hope they had fun because it don't show on my heavy steel bumpers or the heavy alloy running boards.And as for Lou's comment about selfishness,wellcoming from somebody that owns the most single person vehicule on the roads that's a bloody joke.I can and do fit five people plus gear into my Nissan and transport them anywhere in the country cheaper than a 1200cc bike wiith one on board.
But then some only had one eye right.

You say you CAN fit five people in your Nissan but if you look at a lot of those EssEweVees they only have the driver or maybe one passenger in them - might as well be a motorbike!!!

[Jackrat]

You say you CAN fit five people in your Nissan but if you look at a lot of those EssEweVees they only have the driver or maybe one passenger in them - might as well be a motorbike!!!

No I said I can and DO fit five plus gear.And I don't give a damn what anybody else does with their vehicules,they ain't me.
Lumping all 4x4 users into the same catagory is about as smart as doing the same thing to all bikers,It simply doesn't work and never has.

[wkid_one]

gutless for passing
Actually - the Cayenne, Tourag and X5 would give many bikes a fright! Don't stereo type all SUV's as slow. The X5 for example is a 400+ HP beast - and there are quite a few on NZ roads.

The new Holden Avalance is also 270kw.....that would do me nicely.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/pics/AvalancheXUV1.JPG

[sAsLEX]

But would a bike fit on the tray? prob only with the tailgate down, would rather a maloo!

[wkid_one]

DOesn't fit on the back of a Maloo either without the tail gate down - nor a XR8 ute either

[sAsLEX]

Really, thats poor design, seen a few road bikes on hiluxs and the like and assumed a single cab holden would have the same length deck!

[k14]

I am sure that we saw a holden ute with a cbr600rr on it when i was driving up to auckland last year. It was on a 45 degree angle and i am sure the tail gate was up.

[wkid_one]

I am sure that we saw a holden ute with a cbr600rr on it when i was driving up to auckland last year. It was on a 45 degree angle and i am sure the tail gate was up.
Fucken pain in the arse to load and unload if you have to diagonal the bike

[Mongoose]

[QUOTE=wkid_one]Actually - the Cayenne, Tourag and X5 would give many bikes a fright! Don't stereo type all SUV's as slow. The X5 for example is a 400+ HP beast - and there are quite a few on NZ roads.

The new Holden Avalance is also 270kw.....that would do me nicely.

A car they were too miserable to put a boot lid on? :thud:

[scumdog]

No I said I can and DO fit five plus gear.And I don't give a damn what anybody else does with their vehicules,they ain't me.
Lumping all 4x4 users into the same catagory is about as smart as doing the same thing to all bikers,It simply doesn't work and never has.

Whoa Whoa! - I was not getting at you J.R., just stating a fact! Imagine if we could get all those people to ride motorbikes to work instead of their cage (which includes EssEweVees), lots more room on the roads :ride:

[scumdog]

Actually - the Cayenne, Tourag and X5 would give many bikes a fright! Don't stereo type all SUV's as slow. The X5 for example is a 400+ HP beast - and there are quite a few on NZ roads.

The new Holden Avalance is also 270kw.....that would do me nicely.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/pics/AvalancheXUV1.JPG

Point taken but most of the SUVs in N.Z. are slow diesels, most haven't enough grunt to get out of their own way.

My 2030kg F100 has 430h.p. and I consider it only "adequate" in grunt so maybe I'm a bit hard on the 180h.p. 2000+kg SUVs

[Jackrat]

Whoa Whoa! - I was not getting at you J.R., just stating a fact! Imagine if we could get all those people to ride motorbikes to work instead of their cage (which includes EssEweVees), lots more room on the roads :ride:

Yeah sorrry mate.
I just can't help geting me back up over the whole SUV thing cause It's so close to home.I do think that women droping their kids off at school in a small truck is as stupid as anybody else but I just get tired of the whole finger pointing thing that seems to be infecting just about every thing in todays society.
I see that your into your shooting,ect,so you probably know where I'm coming from.In 1975 I walked into a bank on AK's Queen st carrying a pack an Rifle,ten minites after leaving the bank I ran into a couple of beat cops that asked me where I'd been and if I'd got anything.We had a good old yarn and as they left they asked if I had a permit for the rifle.No worrys.
Imagine the same thing today.Hell I can't even shoot rabbits on my own property without some gutless wanker complaining about it.I guess when the bleaters have finished with Guns,Bows,Hunting an Fishing ,SUV's and Motorcycles they will turn on each other.
Hell I'm glad I won't be around to see it.

[scumdog]

Jackrat mate, don't be so sensitive, YOU obvously have a need for such a beast but I laugh when i see an EssEweVee that never tows anything, never goes off the sealed road and has road type radials on the rims.
I would be the first to help but I shake my head when i think of some poor 60kg woman having to change one of those ginormous tyres.

I know where you're coming from re the gun thing, back in the mid '70s I had to kill time in Dunedin waiting for the bus, left my pack at the station and went window shopping with my Sako 308 over my shoulder, nobody said anything (except "been for a shot eh?") and no Police attention - changed days eh? :spudwhat:

[merv]

Love my SUV - carries the daughter's school friends (8 seater), tows my bike trailer like its not there, carries all the materials and tools I need and goes to Macetown and other places OK, things my Camrys could never do.

It doesn't have the road holding or tyre grip the cars have, but I know that and drive accordingly and it only does about 1 km/litre less than the Camrys I had did, and that aint bad for driving a brick through the air (mine is the 3400 petrol not the diesel - didn't want the diesel).