Tyre choice for adventure riding? (Mixing road and off-road)

[vegeman]

I've never had that happen on any of the E07's I've run.

you know that you have to have bike that can deliver the power to spin the wheel, and have to reach high way speeds... thats two things that 'some' bikes can't do...like KLR's for instance ;)

[_Shrek_]

I'm pleased that you had this slipping in the wet under power (only because I had it as well), and for me, it's the only thing with the E07 that bothered me.. It did that a few times for me on the 690, and the first time it happened, I was travelling in a straight line, and not even under full power. When I put the K60's on...I tried to replicate the same conditions and the k60 never missed a beat.

Its for that reason, I feel that the K60 will be the tyre choice in the 50/50 market.

try it with the 990/950 ktm & you will, mine let go only on the "Shiny stuff" ie where the tar has bleed in the heat, I haven't come across an advid tyre out there that wont :msn-wink:

[_Shrek_]

you know that you have to have bike that can deliver the power to spin the wheel, and have to reach high way speeds... thats two things that 'some' bikes can't do...like KLR's for instance ;)

& 690's could be added :whistle:

[Gravel Man]

Yes, have had a couple of moments with an E07 on wet surfaces with my 990. But usually not a poblem if your not being a larakin.
E07's are entertaining when brand new too !!!!!

Cheers G.M.

[_Shrek_]

Yes, have had a couple of moments with an E07 on wet surfaces with my 990. But usually not a poblem if your not being a larakin.
E07's are entertaining when brand new too !!!!!

Cheers G.M.

:facepalm: aye pays to go down a metal road 1st & give them a good :spanking:

[Night Falcon]

interesting comments on the E07. I'm expecting a call from LMS imports any time now to say my rear 07 has turned up and not a mile to soon either! My slick K60 rear is starting to get a little too exciting on the black top....and please don't ask me how exciting it is on wet clay

[vegeman]

interesting comments on the E07. I'm expecting a call from LMS imports any time now to say my rear 07 has turned up and not a mile to soon either! My slick K60 rear is starting to get a little too exciting on the black top....and please don't ask me how exciting it is on wet clay

so...how many km;s out of the K60? - am interested to see how the E07 goes for you, now that you have had that...I went from E07 to the K60. (my E07 was perhaps half worn) so never felt how it was from new.

Keep us posted whether in this thread or your 690 thread

[TangoCharlie]

After months of anguish I have finally gone with a Mitas E09 rear and Pireli M21 front for the DR650SE which I use about 70 / 30 on shingle or off road. Will let out know how they wear. Hopefuly better the than the Kenda 760 and Dunlop 606 they replace... $300 fitted and balanced by me!

[Gravel Man]

After months of anguish I have finally gone with a Mitas E09 rear and Pireli M21 front for the DR650SE which I use about 70 / 30 on shingle or off road. Will let out know how they wear. Hopefuly better the than the Kenda 760 and Dunlop 606 they replace... $300 fitted and balanced by me!

Same combination I used to my old Dr650. Worked well & milage was very acceptable to.

Cheers G.M.

[Night Falcon]

so...how many km;s out of the K60? - am interested to see how the E07 goes for you, now that you have had that...I went from E07 to the K60. (my E07 was perhaps half worn) so never felt how it was from new.

Keep us posted whether in this thread or your 690 thread

Hi Veg, hows that leg going? Hope its not giving you too much greif. Will definately be noting the milage on the E07 to compare with the K60. I have done almost 7K on the Heidi but it lost most of its traction at about 5.5K. I clocked up another 250klm on it today but had to be real careful with the throatle as the rear brakes free pretty easy now the tread has gone :facepalm: hope my E07 turns up soon!!!

[Odakyu-sen]

How do people find the Dunlop Z750 tires? (I'd do a search, but I's keep getting Kawasaki Z750 hits.)

I think they're good on the tar, but I'm new to this game, so what would be a better replacement? (I ride 25% unsealed/75% sealed).

[Padmei]

How do people find the Dunlop Z750 tires? (I'd do a search, but I's keep getting Kawasaki Z750 hits.)

I think they're good on the tar, but I'm new to this game, so what would be a better replacement? (I ride 25% unsealed/75% sealed).

The usual set up is MT21 or Dunlop 606 on the front & E07 on the rear. E07s are excellent excellent rear tyres for everything but wet mud.

[pete-blen]

How do people find the Dunlop Z750 tires? (I'd do a search, but I's keep getting Kawasaki Z750 hits.)

I think they're good on the tar, but I'm new to this game, so what would be a better replacement? (I ride 25% unsealed/75% sealed).

Z750!... Yer don't mean Dunlop K750 dual sport tire ?
http://www.motorradreifen-guenstig.de/portal/system/images/DUNK750.jpg

[Odakyu-sen]

Z750!... Yer don't mean Dunlop K750 dual sport tire ?
http://www.motorradreifen-guenstig.de/portal/system/images/DUNK750.jpg

Ooops! Thanks for pointing that out. (Am having a Kawasaki fixation recently, for some reason...) Next I'll be calling them Dunlop KLR650s or something like that....)

[pete376403]

K750s were original equipment on my KLR. Pretty good on the road, ok on gravel, shit in mud. 4-5000km before they were changed for something else

[pete-blen]

(I ride 25% unsealed/75% sealed).

Shenko 705 / Fullbore M41 would work for you then..

[banditrider]

I'm still a bit of an adv noob but my K60's have around 1600km on them. They took a wee while to scrub in - on my first ride I was riding on wet (but it was not raining) roads and they slithered around a bit. The rear even broke traction once when I was accelerating away from a give way on some reasonably slippery looking tar. By the end of the day they were great on the tar and I was confident with their handling in the rain on the way home.

I did one spirited road ride on them on a reasonably chilly day and the front wandered a little bit but they were being pushed hard and I don't really think that's what they were designed to do.

I'm loving them on good gravel. In deeper gravel the Vee still floats around (she's a heavy old heifer) but if you're able to keep the speed up things aren't too bad. I've just started experimenting with lower pressures but don't want to shred the tyres on the road so haven't gone very low yet. I haven't really tackled clay (not a big fan of clay) or been in the mud much. I did have the rear step out big time on what was possibly some clay but stayed on when a knobbly-clad Beemer went down - the Vee's heavier weight may have helped me then.

Hopefully riding Sunday and I know one of the tracks we're taking could get exciting...

As far as wear goes - they just looked scrubbed in...

[snodpete]

Just replaced the front K60 on the WeeStrom after 21,890km - have over 15,000 on the rear which is still going strong. Rear can be a bit skittish in the wet - and on damp grass if upright and accelerating (it has a 'solid' band in the tread around the centre).

Got a Mitas E07 on the front now (oriented as per arrow (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/31920-Tyre-choice-for-adventure-riding-(Mixing-road-and-off-road)?p=1130325099#post1130325099)...). Pretty well run in after a couple of 1000 kms over the last few weeks including road trips to Golden Bay, Blenheim and Tekapo ;) - it does seem a bit vague when cornering swiftly on seal - OK on the little bit of gravel (Lake Lyndon Rd) I've tried...

[_Shrek_]

Just replaced the front K60 on the WeeStrom after 21,890km - have over 15,000 on the rear which is still going strong. Rear can be a bit skittish in the wet - and on damp grass if upright and accelerating (it has a 'solid' band in the tread around the centre).

Got a Mitas E07 on the front now (oriented as per arrow (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/31920-Tyre-choice-for-adventure-riding-(Mixing-road-and-off-road)?p=1130325099#post1130325099)...). Pretty well run in after a couple of 1000 kms over the last few weeks including road trips to Golden Bay, Blenheim and Tekapo ;) - it does seem a bit vague when cornering swiftly on seal - OK on the little bit of gravel (Lake Lyndon Rd) I've tried...

I now run the Eo7 front back wards & it handles & brakes a heap better on seal or metal

[That looks like fun]

Dunlop 606 $210 of my hard earned :oi-grr: Everyone, well someone, ok one joker told me that the 606 was the bee's knee's for my WR :scooter:
I have just decided to go with the Mitas C-18 :woohoo: $150 delivered to the door :yes:
Is it too late to ask if this is a good decsion :corn:

[Rosie]

Dunlop 606 $210 of my hard earned :oi-grr: Everyone, well someone, ok one joker told me that the 606 was the bee's knee's for my WR :scooter:
I have just decided to go with the Mitas C-18 :woohoo: $150 delivered to the door :yes:
Is it too late to ask if this is a good decsion :corn:

Will be interested to know how the Mitas goes. Purely academic interest of course, since my 606 refuses to wear out :innocent::corn:

[dino3310]

didnt realise the C-18 was DOT rated, wouldnt think it would last long.

this would be grouse on the back of the yammy Col.... not sure of how long it would last though
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/tyres/auction-510504962.htm

[That looks like fun]

Pattern for the rear wheels usable on a medium hard up to soft terrain. A new construction of reinforced side blocks. This pattern guarantees excellent running properties and self-cleaning abilities. Approved for the traffic on land communications according to DOT and EN, 80 % terrain, 20 % roads.

Well thats the blurb on the web site Dino. It looks like it will push its way through some deep shite :wings:

[dino3310]

Pattern for the rear wheels usable on a medium hard up to soft terrain. A new construction of reinforced side blocks. This pattern guarantees excellent running properties and self-cleaning abilities. Approved for the traffic on land communications according to DOT and EN, 80 % terrain, 20 % roads.

Well thats the blurb on the web site Dino. It looks like it will push its way through some deep shite :wings:

and climp out of deep shite:whistle:

[TangoCharlie]

Just back from a 300km ride of assorted seal, shingle and lose rock on a new Mitas E09, which replaced my Dunlop D606. First impression is that the E09 is fantastic on the seal, much quiter and very grippy. Seams a bit skiterish on the shingle, but delivered the goods on a steep rock covered hill climb! Hope it lasts longer than the D606....

[Pikey]

I got over 4500k on my rear E09. Gone for a 140 profile this time :)

[NordieBoy]

Seams a bit skiterish on the shingle, but delivered the goods on a steep rock covered hill climb! Hope it lasts longer than the D606....
What pressure on the shingle?

Not 18-20?

[TangoCharlie]

What pressure on the shingle?

Not 18-20?

I was running 30psi on the rear because half of the trip was 100km/h on the seal and when I ran the D606 with low pressure on seal it cut out very quick!

What do you recommend?

[TangoCharlie]

I got over 4500k on my rear E09. Gone for a 140 profile this time :)

What was your favorite tyre pressure?

[NordieBoy]

I was running 30psi on the rear because half of the trip was 100km/h on the seal and when I ran the D606 with low pressure on seal it cut out very quick!

What do you recommend?

18-20 rear.
20-22 front.

Pump up on road to 25f/28r

[brp]

Dunlop 606 $210 of my hard earned :oi-grr: Everyone, well someone, ok one joker told me that the 606 was the bee's knee's for my WR :scooter:
I have just decided to go with the Mitas C-18 :woohoo: $150 delivered to the door :yes:
Is it too late to ask if this is a good decsion :corn:

Where ya ordering ya mitas online ?

Cheers

[brp]

I go 35 rear and 25 front on T63's on shingle - so if hit the tar not going to wear any quicker

Softer front - harder rear - twin steering :D Why ya think honda manual has it the other way round (25, 18lb) ?

Michelin in bed with mitas - but the e09 with similar tread pattern seems to last longer - perhaps harder rubber where the t63 made in the same factory has softer rubber - carnt fault the t63 for performance - excellent grip but just wears way to quick for $

[That looks like fun]

Where ya ordering ya mitas online ?

Cheers



LMSImports. Some lawnmower???? shop based in Palmerston? There website is not very accurate describing the tyres so I did research elsewhere first. Prices and service are first class :Police:
i ended up with a C-18 with the yellow stripe :Punk:
Its sitting in the garage waiting for me to stop drooling over it and actually fit it to the bike. :woohoo:
A small word of caution, dont follow me through mud :shit: it looks like it will throw shitloads out the back :wings: :innocent:

[Transalper]

In Christchurch DAS (http://dasmoto.co.nz/tyres) is where I go for Mitas, think they come to DAS via LMS imports, am intending on the C16 for my WR, was what the CRF had on it when I traded in.
C16 reads as a slightly harder terrain tyre than the C18 so I'm thinking the C16 may last better.
Will be discussing it more with Linton when I get there.

[brp]

LMSImports. Some lawnmower???? shop based in Palmerston? There website is not very accurate describing the tyres so I did research elsewhere first. Prices and service are first class :Police:
i ended up with a C-18 with the yellow stripe :Punk:
Its sitting in the garage waiting for me to stop drooling over it and actually fit it to the bike. :woohoo:
A small word of caution, dont follow me through mud :shit: it looks like it will throw shitloads out the back :wings: :innocent:


In Christchurch DAS (http://dasmoto.co.nz/tyres) is where I go for Mitas, think they come to DAS via LMS imports, am intending on the C16 for my WR, was what the CRF had on it when I traded in.
C16 reads as a slightly harder terrain tyre than the C18 so I'm thinking the C17 may last better.
Will be discussing it more with Linton when I get there.

Cheers Guys

Yeah TA got me E07's from Linton - was curious where could order them online - medium I prefer - can ya give Linton the nod to add a shopping cart :D

[Transalper]

Cheers Guys

Yeah TA got me E07's from Linton - was curious where could order them online - medium I prefer - can ya give Linton the nod to add a shopping cart :D
Even without a shopping cart it would still be a nice improvement if they would at least list current pricing.

[brp]

Even without a shopping cart it would still be a nice improvement it they would at least list current pricing.

Yeah emailed them on a sunday night and week later no reply, ring up and they had to order them - strange old world when its less effort to get your tyre's from cycletreads in Auckland. Nice chap Linton, got excellent product but could be selling so much more of it ....

[10bikekid]

Cycle tread option I'm looking at at Mo,

Am running Kenda K760 Trackmaster on DRBIG, noisy as hell on road and not real stable or exhibiting of great handling prowess, off-road in soft sand etc IMHO they are exceptional and can turn your DS into a motorcrosser :confused:
http://www.cycletreads.co.nz/products/306-kenda_trail/1611-kenda_k760_trackmaster.aspx
<a href="http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/tt119/800rider/?action=view&amp;current=DSC_0054.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt119/800rider/DSC_0054.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Do I sacrifice that much offroad grip for the better road manners of the Kenda K784 Trail tire (which also happen to cost nearly twice as much)
http://www.cycletreads.co.nz/products/306-kenda_trail/5276-kenda_k784_trail_tyre.aspx

Such are the toils of life

[dino3310]

i'll have the DR and i can deal with the dilemma:laugh:
AC10 front is pretty good, feels a lot more stable on the seal, where as the rear is squirmish like the kenda.... maybe the 606, m21 etc for the rear

[NordieBoy]

I used the 760 rear at the beach races and for one night ride with Topo. Worked really well but too dirt biased for me.

[10bikekid]

i'll have the DR and i can deal with the dilemma:laugh:
AC10 front is pretty good, feels a lot more stable on the seal, where as the rear is squirmish like the kenda.... maybe the 606, m21 etc for the rear

Your speaking in riddles man, what brands<_< (Im unejamicated when it comes to trail tires but know what an S12 is :eek:)

RE;DR, will be ready for you to ride soon but I still reserve the right to take it home at night :shifty:

[10bikekid]

I used the 760 rear at the beach races and for one night ride with Topo. Worked really well but too dirt biased for me.

760;s can turn 170kg DR into a offroad enduro racer and you got to love them for that though.

[dino3310]

Your speaking in riddles man, what brands<_< (Im unejamicated when it comes to trail tires but know what an S12 is :eek:)

S12 is what ive been using for the XR, not to bad on the seal if ya careful:laugh:

perilli M21, dunlop606, mitchelin ac10

[10bikekid]

S12 is what ive been using for the XR, not to bad on the seal if ya careful:laugh:

perilli M21, dunlop606, mitchelin ac10

Spectrum have a S12 copy that has a harder centre and soft side's which was considering for DR but is not dot approved and I doubt comes in a 17" (BTW IMHO S12 is best allround dirt bike tire in the world::first:)

[NordieBoy]

Spectrum have a S12 copy that has a harder centre and soft side's which was considering for DR but is not dot approved and I doubt comes in a 17" (BTW IMHO S12 is best allround dirt bike tire in the world::first:)

The S12 isn't so good in rooty terrain though.
The offset side knobs are too high and don't let the root/branch get down to the carcass to give the knobs a paddle style bite.

Soft terrain, they're fantastic. Lasted for about 5 years of racing on the XR :headbang:

[dino3310]

Your speaking in riddles man, what brands<_< (Im unejamicated when it comes to trail tires but know what an S12 is :eek:)

RE;DR, will be ready for you to ride soon but I still reserve the right to take it home at night :shifty:

if i remember correctly i had a Mitas E-09 on the rear and it went well although not as aggressive as the kenda it performed well both on and off road

[10bikekid]

The S12 isn't so good in rooty terrain though.
The offset side knobs are too high and don't let the root/branch get down to the carcass to give the knobs a paddle style bite.

Soft terrain, they're fantastic. Lasted for about 5 years of racing on the XR :headbang:

Perhaps less high speed compression damping is required to compensate for roots (says he pretending he actually can tell what that is:rolleyes:)

[brp]

The offset side knobs are too high and don't let the root/branch get down to the carcass to give the knobs a paddle style bite.


Interesting point - cheers

Cannot see how you will get much life out of that 760 if you use it on seal .... E09 as suggested be better all round tyre

Getting over tree roots more about grip than suspension ....

[NordieBoy]

Interesting point - cheers

Cannot see how you will get much life out of that 760 if you use it on seal .... E09 as suggested be better all round tyre

Getting over tree roots more about grip than suspension ....

I prefer the 705 as a better all round tyre. But everyone knows that :D

The 760 has a good paddle type section for roots etc and good side knobs too.

I'd expect about 1 Dusty Butt out of a 760 rear including the trip down and back.

[cooneyr]

I prefer the 705 as a better all round tyre. But everyone knows that :D

The 760 has a good paddle type section for roots etc and good side knobs too.

I'd expect about 1 Dusty Butt out of a 760 rear including the trip down and back.

Yer but if it snows along the Lammerlaw range again I bet you would prefer to have the 760 over the 705! Definitely recommend a new tyre, it you run knobblies, at the start of the DB1k. So many km with such a big mix of terrain that they tend to get a hammering.

Just to chuck another tyre into the mix - I'm reasonably impressed with a Mitas C02 as an all round adv tyre. Bit squirmy when new on the seal cause the block are about 20mm high but seem to last bloody well and have pretty decent all round traction. Reasonably cheep too (bit over $100 from memory). They do look a bit basic/old fashioned but don't be put off. I really like the rubber compound, "rubbery" but tough, not plasticy like the MT21 which I reckon ruins the MT21's traction, or soft like the D606 or TKC80 which tend to melt when they get hot (higher pressures make a big difference to decrease heat in the tyre). This rubber compound seems to be common to Mitas adv orientated tyres i.e. E09 and E07.

Cheers R

[_Shrek_]

I'm reasonably impressed with a Mitas C02 as an all round adv tyre. Bit squirmy when new on the seal cause the block are about 20mm high but seem to last bloody well and have pretty decent all round traction. Reasonably cheep too (bit over $100 from memory). They do look a bit basic/old fashioned but don't be put off. I really like the rubber compound, "rubbery" but tough, not plasticy like the MT21 which I reckon ruins the MT21's traction, or soft like the D606 or TKC80 which tend to melt when they get hot (higher pressures make a big difference to decrease heat in the tyre). This rubber compound seems to be common to Mitas adv orientated tyres i.e. E09 and E07.

Cheers R

have you got a pic R & do they come in 150/70x17 tubbless, not that I need any more tyre's as I still have the E10's, E09 & a TKC 80 to use up :rolleyes: am back running E07's untill the DB

[cooneyr]

have you got a pic R & do they come in 150/70x17 tubbless, not that I need any more tyre's as I still have the E10's, E09 & a TKC 80 to use up :rolleyes: am back running E07's untill the DB

Not the right size for your beast mate. Use the "other" tyre sizing, largest in NZ is 120/90-18 which is about 140/80-18 equivalent.

http://dasmoto.co.nz/images/mitas-c02.gif

From DAS (http://dasmoto.co.nz/tyres) or LMS (http://www.lmsimports.co.nz/products.php) (though not listed on their site).

Mine had a good thrashing on the 2012 DB1k, did the Long Way Around around Taupo (1500km from Welly to Welly) and been for a couple of good strops around Canty. Still around 1/3rd left. I've heard and read they are hard to kill. Blocks get larger as they wear out i.e. less off road traction but more wear resistance.

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

Yes, would prefer it there, but for the rest?

705's baby!

Or Pirelli MT43's :D

[10bikekid]

Interesting point - cheers

Cannot see how you will get much life out of that 760 if you use it on seal .... E09 as suggested be better all round tyre

Getting over tree roots more about grip than suspension ....

They are up to 3,285Ks now and I'd say will get a warrant till about 4200ks Run 30-34psi 0n the road and drop down to 15-20 for sand etc

[10bikekid]

if i remember correctly i had a Mitas E-09 on the rear and it went well although not as aggressive as the kenda it performed well both on and off road

They look good but hard to get in Auck (didn't have that on rear when I picked up the old girl)

[dino3310]

They look good but hard to get in Auck (didn't have that on rear when I picked up the old girl)

i use to ring the LMS dude and order over the phone....
(2 owners after me before you)

[JATZ]

They are up to 3,285Ks now and I'd say will get a warrant till about 4200ks Run 30-34psi 0n the road and drop down to 15-20 for sand etc

Faaaaark :gob: you must ride like a nana I'd get about 2-2500 k's from a 760 on my Big, although mine was a blue one and everybody knows they were more powerfull than the orange ones :shutup: I also used Dunlop 606, expensive, T63, Meh...alright once worn in, Mitas E-08, good for road work but a Shinko 705 would be better.
Knobblies, it doesn't matter what you put on there, your going to kill it pretty soon and if it doesn't work, try something else

[That looks like fun]

Took the C-18 for its test ride today :scooter: Roads (sealed) were wet and shitty, gravel was hard packed and :drool::yeah:
Yep she was a bit squirrely on the seal :whistle:
On the gravel was :clap:
And when I found some mud :banana:
I was right, those tyres can shift shit from one place and throw it to another rurlly goud :headbang:
Best I get to wearing out that trailwing on the front so I can keep the bugger pointed in the right direction :whistle:









No comment on tyre life yet :oi-grr:

[warewolf]

Do I sacrifice that much offroad grip for the better road manners of the Kenda K784 Trail tire (which also happen to cost nearly twice as much)
http://www.cycletreads.co.nz/products/306-kenda_trail/5276-kenda_k784_trail_tyre.aspxGoogle "kenda big block"... enjoy!



S12 is what ive been using for the XR, not to bad on the seal if ya careful:laugh:S12s (or more correctly, S12XC now) are fsckin terrible on hardpack. They're just wrong. Ride them back to back with an intermediate (M12XC) let alone a hard-terrain tyre and you'll understand why. They're skittish as hell. Once the surface starts to break up they become tolerable, but an intermediate would still be better.


The S12 isn't so good in rooty terrain though.
The offset side knobs are too high and don't let the root/branch get down to the carcass to give the knobs a paddle style bite.

Soft terrain, they're fantastic.Yep, soft terrain they're fantastic, which is why they're so popular around here!! But you'd expect that, given they're a soft terrain tyre. :cool: No soft terrain tyre works on tree roots. The knob spacings to evacuate mud and punch in to the surface just don't work. Square-on, the paddle effect works ok, but is utterly diabolical at an angle, because the root falls in to the spaces between tread blocks, so the tyre catches on the root and the whole plot goes sideways rather than forwards. Intermediates or hards have much better knob spacings for that sort of carry-on: more checkerboard than paddle steamer.


They do look a bit basic/old fashioned but don't be put off.Some old school tread patterns work really, really well, eg Metzeler Lasertec's straight herringbone pattern which disperses water like nothing else... but looks ancient. Unfortunately fashion and marketing have a lot to do with tread design, as distinct from performance.

[dino3310]

S12s (or more correctly, S12XC now) are fsckin terrible on hardpack. They're just wrong. Ride them back to back with an intermediate (M12XC) let alone a hard-terrain tyre and you'll understand why. They're skittish as hell. Once the surface starts to break up they become tolerable, but an intermediate would still be better.

.

brought for budget not performance, 3 tyres for $5.:2thumbsup

[10bikekid]

Faaaaark :gob: you must ride like a nana I'd get about 2-2500 k's from a 760 on my Big, although mine was a blue one and everybody knows they were more powerfull than the orange ones :shutup: I also used Dunlop 606, expensive, T63, Meh...alright once worn in, Mitas E-08, good for road work but a Shinko 705 would be better.
Knobblies, it doesn't matter what you put on there, your going to kill it pretty soon and if it doesn't work, try something else

I'd agree the miliage is good, I think the reason is 75% road at 34psi and 25% sand (which is not hard on tires)

In regard to my nana riding perhaps Dino could shed some light on that,

[dino3310]

I'd agree the miliage is good, I think the reason is 75% road at 34psi and 25% sand (which is not hard on tires)

In regard to my nana riding perhaps Dino could shed some light on that,

dont ask me, all i could see was dust:pinch:

[10bikekid]

dont ask me, all i could see was dust:pinch:

Hah, sorry bought that, I dont get out a lot on the metal so needed to make it worth while :rolleyes:

Tore about 2000ks off the KTMs MT90 in 100ks or so as it was a full time job to try and stop wheelspin, failed meserable but it was fun:banana:

[brp]

They are up to 3,285Ks now and I'd say will get a warrant till about 4200ks Run 30-34psi 0n the road and drop down to 15-20 for sand etc

:niceone: How often ya "Winding the tap on" on the Big ?

[dino3310]

:niceone: How often ya "Winding the tap on" on the Big ?

after seeing him on the ktm it might be a case of 'when does he wind it off':laugh:

[brp]

Maybe that's the secret to tyre longevity - just keep it pinned and the kinetic energy of ya rear just bulldozers through everything , runs that hot
melts everything in its path without much detriment to itself :ride:

[warewolf]

Oh if that were true! :lol:

Points for wishful thinking but.

[brp]

Wishful thinking alright :D

10bikekid must just have his idle screw turned up and rides his Big round like that to get 4000 k's plus out of a wide spread knobblie

[10bikekid]

Wishful thinking alright :D

10bikekid must just have his idle screw turned up and rides his Big round like that to get 4000 k's plus out of a wide spread knobblie

Secret is Sand

About once or twice a mouth I head from home to Murawai beach 90ks round trip, then I head up beach to South head, drop tire pressures to about 20psi and climb the dunes, sit at the top a drink a V and munch on a peanut slab and return to gas station pump up tires and back home, 110 ks round trip, do some other trips with a bit more seal than sand with some metal but not often (Rimmers road via beach)

So I'm guessing 2500ks on road 1500 on sand (no point in thrashing bike on way to beach except in corners where tire is on it side so not to much wear and Sand is near zero wear so running up the beach at between 100 - 150kph and then up the dunes is cheap in tire cost :2thumbsup
<a href="http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/tt119/800rider/?action=view&amp;current=DSC_0037-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt119/800rider/DSC_0037-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Just love the Desolateness of it all at South Head and am often on my own up there in the morning before all the 4WD guys arrive (in the Winter cold or rain still do the trip but in 4wd with heater on, think those tires will last 40,000 ks:gob:
<a href="http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/tt119/800rider/?action=view&amp;current=Pictures029-3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt119/800rider/Pictures029-3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[Waipukbiker]

OK you tyre Gurus, Ive finally managed to grace my shed with a DR650, Its got an EO7 on the rear :2thumbsup and a Dunlop 605 on the front which at 22 psi has got a noticeable bulge when im perched on it, (Im only 100KG). Suzi recommend 22 psi but it seems a bit soft.
Is the 605 a naturally soft tyre or is the tyre telling me its past its use by date, its still got good tread on it.
The only other thing is, when i got it home, the front had only 14psi in it and the back had 17psi. the previous owner had been using it as a commuter bike for work so it may have done a lot of ks at low pressure and buggered the compound of the tyre.

Cheers

[_Shrek_]

OK you tyre Gurus, Ive finally managed to grace my shed with a DR650, Its got an EO7 on the rear :2thumbsup and a Dunlop 605 on the front which at 22 psi has got a noticeable bulge when im perched on it, (Im only 100KG). Suzi recommend 22 psi but it seems a bit soft.
Is the 605 a naturally soft tyre or is the tyre telling me its past its use by date, its still got good tread on it.
The only other thing is, when i got it home, the front had only 14psi in it and the back had 17psi. the previous owner had been using it as a commuter bike for work so it may have done a lot of ks at low pressure and buggered the compound of the tyre.

Cheers

it should be ok, but if you're not sure strip down the rear & make sure the tyre wall is not damaged, if it's any help I run Eo7's on the 1150 which weighs 250kg wet then you can add 20kgs for gear & me 129kg & I run 20/18 unless I'm on a road trip then 30/30 & I've had no probs with them

[NordieBoy]

Road use, I'd be looking at 26f/28r for that tyre combo.
Seal/gravel, more toward 22f/24r.
Off road, around 20f/18r.

These assume no luggage, or only a small backpack.

If the tubes are holding air then the low pressures shouldn't have had and deleterious effect on the tyre carcass, just accelerated wear on the tread.

[brp]

Secret is Sand

sit at the top a drink a V and munch on a peanut slab "Good On Ya BoY" :niceone: :D

Wonder sand is not abrasive when they use it for sand blasting (Like you on the Big :D)

Still good going no matter how you do it - "Be good night nurse" in less than 1K that rear on back of XR

[10bikekid]

Are road tires must be different to trail tires ??

Heat is the big wear factor for the road so Ideal pressures for 1000cc bikes for wear (rear tires) 38-42 psi, when we drop them to 28-30 for track days they get hotter grip better but wear a lot faster (not to mention the thrashing they are getting)

Its stands to reason ? that if you run lower pressures on trail tires on the road the same thing will happen, they will get hotter and softer and wear faster (spending more of your money)

I noticed this some years ago that by adding 5-10 psi to my sloppy 25 psi pressures, Tire wear on the road reduced considerable over the life the tire.
I run these rear pressure now on road DRBIG 32-34psi, KTM950 37-38 and reduce front by 2-4 psi getting very good tire life, even with spirited riding at times

Means more fiddling at gas stations and with tire gauges on the trail but better for the pocket

[10bikekid]

"Good On Ya BoY" :niceone: :D

Wonder sand is not abrasive when they use it for sand blasting (Like you on the Big :D)

Still good going no matter how you do it - "Be good night nurse" in less than 1K that rear on back of XR

I'd rather be pelted by sand than gravel and stones, :headbang:

IMHO You wont get better off-road grip (at 15-20 psi) but be prepare for unusual turn in on road as not a very rounded profile (at 30+ psi of course), I think its fun and compensate by leaning off the bike, but it takes a little getting used to

Added bonus is that you don't need music as tires sing nicely :eek:

[Waipukbiker]

Cheers for that, I will be doing a mixture of seal and gravel so Suzuki are pretty much on the money with their 22/25 pressures.

Have read mixed reviews for the 605 but its got good tread so will keep it on and wear it down a bit more yet then prob a TKC80 will be gracing the front wheel.

[NordieBoy]

Cheers for that, I will be doing a mixture of seal and gravel so Suzuki are pretty much on the money with their 22/25 pressures.

A rear MT21 on gravel and I wasn't happy till it got down to around 18psi.
An Avon Gripster was comfortable at 26.

The Avon had a much softer, more compliant sidewall.

[warewolf]

Are road tires must be different to trail tires ?? Different demands on them.

You are correct, for on-road use you want more like road pressures to stop the flex (heat) which leads to wear. However, the caveat IME is that with too much pressure you can break all the knobs off at the base, because that becomes the weak point when the carcass won't flex. That's with a proper DOT enduro knobbly, not a cut slick, so perhaps a special case.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o20/warewolf885/event/20090404AP/th_CompetitionIIIWorn1.jpg (http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o20/warewolf885/event/20090404AP/CompetitionIIIWorn1.jpg) http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o20/warewolf885/event/20090404AP/th_CompetitionIIIWorn2.jpg (http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o20/warewolf885/event/20090404AP/CompetitionIIIWorn2.jpg)

But the flipside to the high road pressures, is that with lower pressures you get a much bigger footprint (longer and wider) as the tyre flexes. This is fairly critical in mud and sand. Even with non-DOT MX knobblies on the DR-Z250 (say 115kg) in Woodhill I'd run 11.5/12.5 psi f/r. Any higher and it was a problem. At the weekend I was running 15/17 psi f/r on the 640 with DOT knobblies in the slick stuff; more tread and a little less pressure would have helped the rear, the front was fine and could have run another 5 psi higher easy. Away from Hira rock, in that sort of slick mud on the 200 I'd run 8 psi in the rear - because that's where the tyre flexes appropriately. Hira was pretty 'gloopy' in places:
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o20/warewolf885/public/20120916%20Morley%206%20Hour/th_20120916_1.jpg (http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o20/warewolf885/public/20120916%20Morley%206%20Hour/20120916_1.jpg)

One of the issues I have with the much lauded TKC80 front is that it simply won't work in the dirt on my bike above 16.5 psi. There is a noticeable difference in grip to 17 psi. However, as you note it can't be used on the seal at that pressure without getting chewed out. A DOT-rated MX front can be run at 25 psi everywhere for adventure use and works much better. A lot of the riding I do is swapping from dirt to seal and back again many times during the day. There's never a gas station at the transition, so it's hand pump time if you want to get fussy with pressures. I just set-and-forget for the day, usually - and don't buy tyres that are super fussy about pressure.

The other reason you want lower pressures is to make the tyre conform to the surface. Again, it's a footprint size issue in order to increase traction. A high-pressure unyielding tyre will not contact an uneven surface very much, seriously reducing traction.

Off-road, you are so desperate for every skerrick of traction that tyre wear is not really considered. On-road, traction is rarely a problem at tyre-preserving pressures.

[dino3310]

good little write up.

Hey colin is a 510x18 the same as a 130x 18

[Waipukbiker]

Good write up Colin, I cant be bothered looking through all the reviews for tyres much now as for every person that reckons a particular tyre is the best thing since canned beer, there is some else that reckons its a piece of crap. Its whatever works for each person on their particular bike.
Im very new to the DR650 itself let alone what tyres are on it. My riding will be about 80% seal and the rest mostly shingle, I havnt got too long to go to receive my gold card so Im not to keen on the technical stuff much now. Ive owned a whole range of chook chasers over the years and have done trials etc but new to riding big trailies on the road. Some of you will have seen me around on my old 81 KL250 on the likes of the "long way round" ride and that has a Shinko 700 on the back which has been an awesome tyre but how it would go on a heavier bike I have no idea. Would be interesting to try one of them on the front.

[NordieBoy]

Some of you will have seen me around on my old 81 KL250 on the likes of the "long way round" ride and that has a Shinko 700 on the back which has been an awesome tyre but how it would go on a heavier bike I have no idea. Would be interesting to try one of them on the front.

The 700 goes quite well on the front with a 705 on the rear.

I'd go with 705's front and rear though...

[Waipukbiker]

Yeah, considering the type of riding I do, I don't need really aggressive tyres.
Do you reverse the 705 on the front on yours Nordie or go with the arrow?

[NordieBoy]

Yeah, considering the type of riding I do, I don't need really aggressive tyres.
Do you reverse the 705 on the front on yours Nordie or go with the arrow?

I go with the arrow.

[brp]

I noticed this some years ago that by adding 5-10 psi to my sloppy 25 psi pressures, Tire wear on the road reduced considerable over the life the tire.
I run these rear pressure now on road DRBIG 32-34psi, KTM950 37-38 and reduce front by 2-4 psi getting very good tire life, even with spirited riding at times

Means more fiddling at gas stations and with tire gauges on the trail but better for the pocket

35 and up what I run my trail tyres at on seal , torque big factor, mate got 20,000 km out of an e07 rear on his dr650 - I got 6000km out of my e07 rear and that was down to the center band.

[dino3310]

35 and up what I run my trail tyres at on seal , torque big factor, mate got 20,000 km out of an e07 rear on his dr650 - I got 6000km out of my e07 rear and that was down to the center band.

6k on a BRP:clap: :2thumbsup

just ordered me a shinko244 a mate who chews tyres is having a good run out of his so it should last me a while...... hopefully

[Waipukbiker]

I see Harley Davidson are marketing a little electric tyre pump for bikes, jeez imagine the price (don't even want to know) but i might have a look around to see whats out there now, Ive just brought a small digital tyre gauge from Jaycar and its neat, you don't have to hold it on the stem to read it, It holds the pressure in memory.

I also brought a right angled adapter for valve stems which works a treat on the rear tyre cos the bloody brake disc gets in the way of the inflator.

[pete376403]

Supercheap have small 12v compressors for not too much $. How small are the H-D pumps?

[Gremlin]

I see Harley Davidson are marketing a little electric tyre pump for bikes, jeez imagine the price (don't even want to know) but i might have a look around to see whats out there now,
Compact compressors aren't new... I got one from AdvDesigns in the USA, which supposed to be one of the best...

The H-D badge on it will probably cost the most, but when did those riders check their bikes that much? :eek:

[Waipukbiker]

Cant copy and paste the link for some reason but google Harley Davidson tyre pumps and it will come up.

[10bikekid]

Different demands on them.

You are correct, for on-road use you want more like road pressures to stop the flex (heat) which leads to wear. However, the caveat IME is that with too much pressure you can break all the knobs off at the base, because that becomes the weak point when the carcass won't flex. That's with a proper DOT enduro knobbly, not a cut slick, so perhaps a special case.

But the flipside to the high road pressures, is that with lower pressures you get a much bigger footprint (longer and wider) as the tyre flexes. This is fairly critical in mud and sand. Even with non-DOT MX knobblies on the DR-Z250 (say 115kg) in Woodhill I'd run 11.5/12.5 psi f/r. Any higher and it was a problem. At the weekend I was running 15/17 psi f/r on the 640 with DOT knobblies in the slick stuff; more tread and a little less pressure would have helped the rear, the front was fine and could have run another 5 psi higher easy. Away from Hira rock, in that sort of slick mud on the 200 I'd run 8 psi in the rear - because that's where the tyre flexes appropriately. Hira was pretty 'gloopy' in places:


One of the issues I have with the much lauded TKC80 front is that it simply won't work in the dirt on my bike above 16.5 psi. There is a noticeable difference in grip to 17 psi. However, as you note it can't be used on the seal at that pressure without getting chewed out. A DOT-rated MX front can be run at 25 psi everywhere for adventure use and works much better. A lot of the riding I do is swapping from dirt to seal and back again many times during the day. There's never a gas station at the transition, so it's hand pump time if you want to get fussy with pressures. I just set-and-forget for the day, usually - and don't buy tyres that are super fussy about pressure.

The other reason you want lower pressures is to make the tyre conform to the surface. Again, it's a footprint size issue in order to increase traction. A high-pressure unyielding tyre will not contact an uneven surface very much, seriously reducing traction.

Off-road, you are so desperate for every skerrick of traction that tyre wear is not really considered. On-road, traction is rarely a problem at tyre-preserving pressures.

Yer pretty much the presures I found work for me offroad, use my 290 as a base at 8-10f 10-12r in the sand and just try to factor in extra weight so DR in sand goes to 12-14f 14-16r and KTM 20f 25r gravel (for puncture resistance not to mention the 230kg of weight by the time you count add ons and fuel)
might try ktm at 18f 20r in sand tmorrow no lower as have to do some seal to get back to gas station (just put hand pump in top box as back up)

as you surgest I also find higher pressures turn a bike into a pig offroad (no such issue on road though)

A freind of mine mistakenly ran 40psi in the front tire of his KX250f when he first bought it and a test ride revealed what seemed like the worst suspension and front end peformance ever, once discovered and pressure drop to 10psi she was a dream boat by comparison



Cheers for that Colin

[10bikekid]

6k on a BRP:clap: :2thumbsup

just ordered me a shinko244 a mate who chews tyres is having a good run out of his so it should last me a while...... hopefully

Cool. perhaps try running the rear up around 30psi on road and gravel, your pocket may thank you. if its to loose could allways drop 5psi and try that

KTMs rear scorpion got ripped to shreads on our last ride at 25psi (though it is nearly 100kg heavier than XR)
but I just needed that much grip to stay on the road (will go back to 30 next time and live with it so dont come out other end with a slick):(

[dino3310]

i always run whats written on the tyre, sometimes i drop the pressures for of road but most of the time im just cruizing so dont find the need to lower pressures

[dino3310]

new shinko244 arrived today, not a bad looking tyre, a bit more aggressive than the trailwings i was running.
was supprised to see 'Golden boy' on the tyre though

[NordieBoy]

new shinko244 arrived today, not a bad looking tyre, a bit more aggressive than the trailwings i was running.
was supprised to see 'Golden boy' on the tyre though

Wholesale price on the fronts was $25 a few years ago.

I only get about 5,000km from a rear.

[dino3310]

Wholesale price on the fronts was $25 a few years ago.

I only get about 5,000km from a rear.

i'd be rapped to get 5k out of it:woohoo:

[warewolf]

Hey colin is a 510x18 the same as a 130x 18Yes. 5.10 is a low-profile (80-ish %) 5.00: 5 x 25.4 = 127, so 130/80 in ETRTO but 110/100 in the ISO system.

Similarly, 5.60 is a low-profile 5.50: 5.5 x 25.4 = 139.7, aka 140/80 in ETRTO or 120/100 in ISO.

[warewolf]

i always run whats written on the tyre, sometimes i drop the pressures for of road but most of the time im just cruizing so dont find the need to lower pressuresWHOA! :facepalm: The max pressure marked on the tyre is the max possible for the tyre on any vehicle. It's usually a long way north of the vehicle's recommended pressures.

e.g. max for T63 is 40 psi, but the recommended pressure for my bike is 29. That tyre's max is a whopping 38% higher!! 40 psi would be impossibly hard. The bike's recommended pressures are already for on-road use, even on a dual-purpose bike.

You've gotta do what works for you, but I would be very, very wary of a variance that far from the manufacturer's recommendation.

[warewolf]

I cant be bothered looking through all the reviews for tyres much now as for every person that reckons a particular tyre is the best thing since canned beer, there is some else that reckons its a piece of crap. Its whatever works for each person on their particular bike.Yep, that's the trick of it. Finding someone who rides like you do on a similar bike and similar terrain. Or whose recommendations have worked in the past.

[dino3310]

Yes. 5.10 is a low-profile (80-ish %) 5.00: 5 x 25.4 = 127, so 130/80 in ETRTO but 110/100 in the ISO system.

Similarly, 5.60 is a low-profile 5.50: 5.5 x 25.4 = 139.7, aka 140/80 in ETRTO or 120/100 in ISO.

awesome mate thanks for that:2thumbsup

[brp]

Cheers warewolf for your insight on tyres - never really thought about the length of the tyre increasing when you let air out - just the width :niceone:

Dino - yeah E07 prob only tyre you will get 6K out of on a pig :D

10bikekid - what torque your big cubed KTM putting out ? Think problem with XR and tyre wear is puts out lot of torque but the ass end is light so
end up with a skimming effect on the knobs instead of biting down more - (Must put more energy into transferring my ass end to back of seat more regular)

[10bikekid]

:rolleyes:
Cheers warewolf for your insight on tyres - never really thought about the length of the tyre increasing when you let air out - just the width :niceone:

Dino - yeah E07 prob only tyre you will get 6K out of on a pig :D

10bikekid - what torque your big cubed KTM putting out ? Think problem with XR and tyre wear is puts out lot of torque but the ass end is light so
end up with a skimming effect on the knobs instead of biting down more - (Must put more energy into transferring my ass end to back of seat more regular)

KTM twin is not really about torque, it has it for sure (particularly once FMF pipes were fitted and carbs rejetted to suit)

But its more about HP (aprox 95 rwhp) so its spins up pretty hard all the time and probable is spinning about 50% of the time when punted hard on the metal, Impossible to get good wear from tire in that situation.

Someone suggested to us less throttle but didnt think much of that idea :devil2:

I would generally use DR750 in these situations as is more manageable but is in w/shop at the mo so had to make do with Ktm:rolleyes: , but will rethink that in future as fun factor was through the roof :banana:





Tire looked quite a bit fresher than this before the 100ks of metal road punishment
<a href="http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/tt119/800rider/?action=view&amp;current=Pictures504_zps936264ee.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt119/800rider/Pictures504_zps936264ee.jpg" border="0" alt="Pictures504_zps1d9ef880"></a>

[brp]

Like dudes signature on here - torque wins races - hp is for sales ... something to that effect

Isn't torque bigger tyre wear factor than HP ? So it huss's up the KTM - you like speed demon, smoke trails ?

I'd be running to the ktm :cool:

[10bikekid]

Like dudes signature on here - torque wins races - hp is for sales ... something to that effect

Isn't torque bigger tyre wear factor than HP ? So it huss's up the KTM - you like speed demon, smoke trails ?

I'd be running to the ktm :cool:

Its an interesting subject torque V hp. (both are probably best)

I did a little test before I fitted pipes to KTM as was sure DR was torquer, had a friend ride the DR and we did roll ons from different speeds in top gear (on the beach) and to my suprise no matter how low in the revs we went the KTM always pulled away imediatley and would then promply march off into the distance.

Still like riding DR and of course its a lot lighter for offroading, but my primary reason for having both is so I dont have to change tires, if its soft and low traction take the DR, if its a long way away take KTM and stay away from low traction situations.

Both are fun in different ways and I'm into thumpers just as much as the next guy (but please dont ask me to choose)
<a href="http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/tt119/800rider/?action=view&amp;current=Pictures067.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt119/800rider/Pictures067.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[brp]

I'd just naturally go for biggest cubes :headbang: Biggest explosion :D

Its like a set of old fashion balancing scales - increase the HP decrease the Torque - well thats what a mate told me - knows a thing or two though :cool:

If it was at the TAB your run down the beach - I would of put 1k on the nose for the KTM - its like comparing xr400 and xr600 - still large percentage more of explosion going on :headbang:.

[10bikekid]

I'd just naturally go for biggest cubes :headbang: Biggest explosion :D

Its like a set of old fashion balancing scales - increase the HP decrease the Torque - well thats what a mate told me - knows a thing or two though :cool:

If it was at the TAB your run down the beach - I would of put 1k on the nose for the KTM - its like comparing xr400 and xr600 - still large percentage more of explosion going on :headbang:.

You make a good point :2thumbsup

have seen 205kph(127mph) on the KTM speedo in the sand (on a private beach of course:msn-wink:) so you would probable win that bet easily.

other side of the coin twins spin up quicker than singles (even if they had the same touque) and in low traction dont grip as well so DR with same tires in mud would make a mockery of any twin

horses for courses :cool:

[brp]

Yeah both built for different purposes.

If I was after tractor like torque I'd be running for The Doctor. Before our excursion to the beach today did some forest track - just magic all
that torque from a thumper, whack through the gears quick and let that torque do all the work and not have to rev the shit out of that big piston :D

[10bikekid]

Yeah both built for different purposes.

If I was after tractor like torque I'd be running for The Doctor. Before our excursion to the beach today did some forest track - just magic all
that torque from a thumper, whack through the gears quick and let that torque do all the work and not have to rev the shit out of that big piston :D

Agreed :niceone:

[Waipukbiker]

Torque is the turning effort imparted to the center of the wheel, eg, if you were able to put a bar on to the center of the wheel and turn it, A bar 1ft long with 1 lb of weight on the end will impart 1 lb ft of torque to the wheel. or, A bar 20 ft long with 1 lb on the end is 20 ft lbs of torque.
Now its all in newton meters so ill try and do an exercise on a my DR650.

Max torque is 54 nm at 4,600 rpm (Apparently) so lets say Im in 3rd gear at 4,600 rpm (Trying to keep up with DR Girl) 3rd gear is 1.238 to 1 so that multiplies the engine torque to 66.85 nm at the C/S Sprocket. Mine has a 15/43 sprocket combo which is 2.86 to 1 so
the theoretical torque available at my back wheel is 191.19 nm. This is never an exact calculation because of what is known as parasitic losses.
In all parts of a drive train there is drag or resistance eg, bearings, seals, oil drag, chains etc, ( also includes any electrical load on the alternator).
Whats left over gets to turn the back wheel.

There is a saying, Horsepower determines top speed , Torque determines how quick you get to that speed.

Hope this makes some sence

[warewolf]

Its like a set of old fashion balancing scales - increase the HP decrease the Torque - well thats what a mate told me - knows a thing or two though :cool:Not quite. HP is simply torque times revs. If you can only make torque at low revs, you don't get any power because there's no high-rev torque, a la H-D. If you only make a little bit of torque, but can rev to the moon, then you get decent top-end power but no bottom-end, a la 250cc IL4. Both of those types of bikes are the extreme ends of the range, there is a heap of middle ground. Generally speaking, anything that improves the engine's efficiency makes both more torque and more power; modest gains in each makes for an overall improvement. But if you want big HP numbers then some of the things that generate high-rev torque aren't compatible with low-rev torque, so you must choose. (And I would add, for both the aforementioned styles, what you have been told is more the truth, probably because they aren't efficient designs to start with, or they are already extremely biased in their tuning.)

My Triumph Trophy was re-worked for more midrange - and I would not do any modification that sacrificed it for top end. The bike ended up with 50% more power than stock, with more power & torque everywhere in the rev range vs a stocker. So you can have your cake and eat it, too, if you go about it the right way. I could have got more HP but wasn't interested in a big top-end number, rather get-up-and-go in the middle. 10% more was cheap, but the rest was not!!

[dino3310]

Ran 25psi rear and 28 front today colin.... felt much better.
cheers for all the tyre advice/knowledge :2thumbsup

[brp]

(And I would add, for both the aforementioned styles, what you have been told is more the truth, probably because they aren't efficient designs to start with, or they are already extremely biased in their tuning.)

:D Yeah that's what he was getting at, cheers.

Is it the laws pf physics coming into play ? - Motors that produce large torque usually have large pistons with a large stroke - and can't rev out the same (with most V8's redlining 6500 RPM if you are lucky - if its a mighty Ford V8 add bit more :cool:)

XR has a set up to stop windage loss from the alternator, interesting to see it all counts where it should.

Did ya do ya valves etc on ya trophy - how did ya have ya cake and pig out on it to ?
How could low down torque be increased on the XR ?


Thanks for Waipukbiker for the torque explanation :niceone:

[Night Falcon]

Torque is the turning effort imparted to the center of the wheel, eg, if you were able to put a bar on to the center of the wheel and turn it, A bar 1ft long with 1 lb of weight on the end will impart 1 lb ft of torque to the wheel. or, A bar 20 ft long with 1 lb on the end is 20 ft lbs of torque.
Now its all in newton meters so ill try and do an exercise on a my DR650.

Max torque is 54 nm at 4,600 rpm (Apparently) so lets say Im in 3rd gear at 4,600 rpm (Trying to keep up with DR Girl) 3rd gear is 1.238 to 1 so that multiplies the engine torque to 66.85 nm at the C/S Sprocket. Mine has a 15/43 sprocket combo which is 2.86 to 1 so
the theoretical torque available at my back wheel is 191.19 nm. This is never an exact calculation because of what is known as parasitic losses.
In all parts of a drive train there is drag or resistance eg, bearings, seals, oil drag, chains etc, ( also includes any electrical load on the alternator).
Whats left over gets to turn the back wheel.

There is a saying, Horsepower determines top speed , Torque determines how quick you get to that speed.

Hope this makes some sence

I understood everything up to "Torque is" :scratch:

[Waipukbiker]

If I reprint it in orange text, would that help? or try a couple of these first:apint: Hope you have a good ride in the weekend.

[Night Falcon]

If I reprint it in orange text, would that help? or try a couple of these first:apint: Hope you have a good ride in the weekend.

no I'm just as thick in orange. Went for a test spin up the gwavas yesterday, great fun poking the 690 into places it shouldn't go. But I have to say I'm well impressed with the MT21 front. Stearing is far more positive on gravel and holds real well in sand & clay. I didn't realise what I was missing!

[JATZ]

My Triumph Trophy was re-worked for more midrange - and I would not do any modification that sacrificed it for top end. The bike ended up with 50% more power than stock, with more power & torque everywhere in the rev range vs a stocker !




Did ya do ya valves etc on ya trophy - how did ya have ya cake and pig out on it to ?

And a very nice cake it was too :D Werewolf can probably fill in the details on what was done internaly but I know it went kinda quick :msn-wink: even 2 up with a bit of gear. Not only was the power upgraded but equally importantly the suspension was too. The brakes were not to shabby either.
Back on topic, this is a tyre thread after all.....it had tyres :gob: both on the front and on the back, weird aye :blink:
Here it is from a weekend trip to Bluff via Tekapo, see the tyres
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/ztaj/Dog.jpg

[Waipukbiker]

Sounds good about the MT21, happy with it on the seal?
Its when the seal is wet that I get a bit nervous but just means riding to the conditions.

[Night Falcon]

Sounds good about the MT21, happy with it on the seal?
Its when the seal is wet that I get a bit nervous but just means riding to the conditions.

so far its been great on the seal. Gave it a good flogging yesterday and it held up just fine!

[Woodman]

MT21 front is a great tyre, well priced too. My front tyre of choice now, only issue I have is that they have a tendency to lock up under hard braking, even with the KLR crappy front brake.

Rears are good too, but some guys hate them on the rear.

[warewolf]

Is it the laws pf physics coming into play ? - Motors that produce large torque usually have large pistons with a large stroke - and can't rev out the sameYep, it's all physics. :msn-wink: One of the big issues is that things are different at low vs high rpm. Some examples:

Gas flow speed needs to be high for best efficiency. You want high gas speed intake to atomise the fuel droplets coming out of the carb jets, and high gas speed in the exhaust to help draw the spent gases out and fresh charge in. A narrow pipe gives high gas speed at low engine speed (low gas volume) but this will limit gas volume at high engine speed. A wide pipe that flows massive amounts at high rpm will have a very low gas speed at low engine speed, so low end efficiency suffers.
Valve duration is set as a number of degrees on the camshaft. It needs to be long at high rpm because the "per minute" thing comes in to play and you need time to get the gases in to the cylinder. But at low rpm the valves are open for too long for best efficiency. You've probably heard the expression "lumpy cam" and heard race engines that just don't sound like they are running right at idle. In a similar way, two strokes have port timing, and when the revs come up to where the timing is optimised, sh!t happens as it "hits (power-)band" or comes "on the pipe" (which is why 2Ts have lots of ways of varying the exhaust timing).
Yes, piston & valve mass is a rev-limiting factor. The big pistons in a 1340 cc H-D twin are stressed far more at 5000 rpm than the tiddlers in a 250cc IL4 at 20,000 rpm, due the square- and cube-law multipliers of mass vs force vs velocity. You don't need a large piston or long stroke for torque, there are other design factors.


It's a big topic, but there are plenty of good books on the subject. Nelson folks are welcome to borrow some of mine if they are interested.


Did ya do ya valves etc on ya trophy - how did ya have ya cake and pig out on it to ?Yes. The cheap mods: plane the head to increase compression (positive side effect of increasing the ignition advance), quick port job to remove the worst of the manufacturing goofs and very minor improvement on only one side that suffered (in or ex, can't remember), after-market touring mufflers (not loud), dynojet kit to suit, K&N air filter, removed the manufacturing goofs in the header collets and the balance pipe. With those mods, it would pull 6th in the midrange (overtaking) like it used to pull 4th. :2thumbsup I kept finding myself a gear or two higher than expected. Also at that time, fitted Ohlins fork springs and a Daytona-spec Ohlins shock. No good having all that power if you can't get it to the ground; the std suspension did the whole "squat and push" thing exiting a corner whereas the Ohlins let you wind on the throttle and just DRIVE outta there! Braided steel brake lines rounded out the package.

The expensive mods: high-compression Daytona Super III pistons (12:1 vs 10.3:1) which along with the planed head took compression to 13.9:1, Daytona Super III camshafts (wildest cams Triumph did, huge lift and long duration), improved cut on the valve seats to match the back-cut valves (material removed from the stem side to improve flow at initial valve lift), about 50 hours of porting work on the head (not charged because the technician was a fellow enthusiast and had time to spare in winter), removed some flow-restricting pre-filters in the airbox, and dyno tuned to suit. We tried to use the stock air filter since the K&N flows more dirt and the bike did lots of gravel roads, but she was a long way past the flow capabilities of the stock one! :drool: And the only reason it could run pump gas at 13.9:1 CR was that the cams were such long duration that the dynamic CR was much less: the piston was a long way up from BDC before the valves closed. Since I couldn't get the front end working right, in went RaceTech Gold Valve Emulators, and Robert Taylor retuned the rear shock and increased the ride height to stand the bike on it's nose to quicken the steering. I also dropped the gearing 7% which made it a bit short, but helped getting going two-up with gear especially uphill. I was going to go +3% on the next sprocket change to work the midrange more.

Don't forget that the 1st generation Hinckley Triumphs were quite conservative: low redline and low power compared to similar Jap machinery. One thing I didn't do with mine was chase up a 750cc igniter box that would increase redline from 9500 to 11000rpm. The thing hit the rev limiter while the power was still climbing sharply, so there was more there if I could let it rev out.

Conflicting things - or compromises: the std headers & touring mufflers while much improved did not flow high-rev like a race exhaust, but helped the bottom/mid. The super-high compression created a thin combustion chamber; I often wondered if a second head gasket would drop the CR and improve high-rev combustion, at the expense of the low-end. Drag racers love compression to get them off the line. The wild cams certainly gave the bottom-end grief, but everything was so much improved that it was still better than std. The valve work improved everything, as did the porting.

These sort of gains are likely achievable on "trail" bikes like the XT, DR, KLR, XL with modest power outputs. Enduro bikes like the XR, TT, KLX, EXC will already have pushed the design further so gains will be harder to come by.

Tyre content: the better I got the suspension working, the less chewed-out the tyres got, and the longer they lasted, despite the power & torque increase.


How could low down torque be increased on the XR ?Plane the head. Refresh the valves: make sure the seat faces are in good shape. If running the OEM exhaust, clean up the collets and anywhere else the manufacturing is less than ideal. Mild port work. A loud high-flow exhaust probably won't help if the rest of the system is still constricted. Research what other owners do, and what performance shops do.

I should add that cubes is an easy way to power & torque, as is gearing. And a more modern bike will usually be a much better overall package: trading up may be more cost-effective.

[brp]

Cheers for the pic JATZ - that breed of dog deserves a pedestal - not that I'm Bias :D Good skills getting the beaut trumpet into position :clap:

Wow Colin you know your stuff - no wonder your mods to the green beast made it haul :clap:


Enduro bikes like the XR, TT, KLX, EXC will already have pushed the design further so gains will be harder to come by.

Too true, I can see Honda has already included many of your points for low to mid range. Could always go for the 65 HP HRC kit or go further with the 680 cc kit or the whole hog with the 700 cc kit. More curiosity the question on increasing low down torque, happy with the status quo - tyres will thank me for it too :msn-wink:

[Eddieb]

Plane the head.

I had been wondering what benefit higher compression would give at different stages on the rev range. There's an off the shelf high comp piston available for the DR that takes the DR 650 from 9.5 to 10.5 CR.

[NordieBoy]

I had been wondering what benefit higher compression would give at different stages on the rev range. There's an off the shelf high comp piston available for the DR that takes the DR 650 from 9.5 to 10.5 CR.

Basically, more torque.
Add the basic WebCam 223? grind and the torque curve is ballooned out again like the FCR does over the stocker.

[10bikekid]

I had been wondering what benefit higher compression would give at different stages on the rev range. There's an off the shelf high comp piston available for the DR that takes the DR 650 from 9.5 to 10.5 CR.

Went from 8.5 to 10.5 on an NX650 and bike wheelied easier due to noticable increase in torque, but not much more Hp, did this as bike was burning a bit of oil but if was doing it for performance would defenantly add cam (and go as high on comp as possible with that to make up for cam overlap loss as mentioned elsewhere here)

[Padmei]

Gravel riding with road biased adv tyres on a heavy bike.
Better to have less pressure & have more contact patch with the tyre deforming & roll sideways as you corner or normal pressure & have the tyre kinda cut in to the gravel with minimal roling?

[Woodman]

Gravel riding with road biased adv tyres on a heavy bike.
Better to have less pressure & have more contact patch with the tyre deforming & roll sideways as you corner or normal pressure & have the tyre kinda cut in to the gravel with minimal roling?

Depends how often you wanna stop and change your pressures. If you have road based tyres you are probarbly doing a fair amount on tar as well so low pressures will mess with that.

Does anyone ever stop and change their pressures when changing from road to gravel and vice versa?

[Padmei]

So are you saying it's better to lower th pressure for road tyres for gravel?

[pete-blen]

So are you saying it's better to lower th pressure for road tyres for gravel?

half the diffrents...
the XT runs 29psi on seal "yamaha recamendation"
& works ok at around 20psi gravel/hard dirt
so I run 24/25psi if I'm doing both....

You could run CO2 its very temp sensitive..
hotter the tyre gets "seal' the psi will rise &
vise a versa on gravel/dirt

[Woodman]

So are you saying it's better to lower th pressure for road tyres for gravel?

What Pete says. Compromise.

TBH, I know sweet FA about tyre pressures, but usually about 25-ish when I have access to a gauge, otherwise use the squeeze test. Lately with the front I will ride along and apply the front brake heavily whilst watching the tyre on the road to see how much it distorts.

[Transalper]

So are you saying it's better to lower th pressure for road tyres for gravel?

For road tyres on a heavy bike I'd still go with yes, a little bit of air out.
If in doubt go for a ride with 'your' heavy bike and 'your' sealed road bias tyres, full road pressures, go on some gravel bends etc, then circle round, drop 5 or 10psi and go again. Drop more and play more if needed, then pump them back up and see if it turns to crap when you go again.
Testing your own setup should give you the best answer for you.
I'm about to do the same, Transalp getting REG/WOF going back on the road from Tuesday with a new to me & very road bias front tyre so I will be to experimenting too, but I do expect to drop the pressure slightly for gravel, but then may well just end up leaving it at that level unless the next ride is to be all seal.

[george formby]

Depends how often you wanna stop and change your pressures. If you have road based tyres you are probarbly doing a fair amount on tar as well so low pressures will mess with that.

Does anyone ever stop and change their pressures when changing from road to gravel and vice versa?


Me don't. The TDM is tickety boo on gravel at road pressures, it surprises me how enthusiastic I need to get with the throttle to get it sliding around. MT90 front / 705 rear.

I started riding gravel on BT 021 sports touring tires & the only real issue was on the brakes, the front did not feel nice braking downhill in any depth of gravel. The current tires are much betterer, particularly the Pirelli, surprising levels of grip on the brakes.

Bare in mind I'm not fast in the tight stuff but happily sit between 80 and 100 kmh on open gravel roads.

[banditrider]

Bare in mind I'm not fast in the tight stuff but happily sit between 80 and 100 kmh on open gravel roads.

Sounds a bit like me on the mighty Vee. I have dropped my pressures recently from the Suzuki recommended 36 to about 28 psi. Those tight down hill bits are the most tricky with the bike floating around.

The other day on ungraded stuff I was having heaps of trouble with the rear end breaking loose on the slightest bit of throttle I think that big raised centre park of the K60's doesn't do me much favours in the gravel. The tyres are great otherwise.

271214

[george formby]

Sounds a bit like me on the mighty Vee. I have dropped my pressures recently from the Suzuki recommended 36 to about 28 psi. Those tight down hill bits are the most tricky with the bike floating around.

The other day on ungraded stuff I was having heaps of trouble with the rear end breaking loose on the slightest bit of throttle I think that big raised centre park of the K60's doesn't do me much favours in the gravel. The tyres are great otherwise.

271214

It's taken awhile but I have built up the confidence to carry a bit of speed in a higher than necessary gear when the gravel gets deep. The bike floats around a bit but is lessy twitchy than at slower speeds. At a certain speed the bike settles down & kind of meanders over the gravel, I've learned to just go with the flow & look where I want to go, the bike always, eventually, follows.
Softening the spendies has helped too. Now wet clay is another story.

[banditrider]

It's taken awhile but I have built up the confidence to carry a bit of speed in a higher than necessary gear when the gravel gets deep. The bike floats around a bit but is lessy twitchy than at slower speeds. At a certain speed the bike settles down & kind of meanders over the gravel, I've learned to just go with the flow & look where I want to go, the bike always, eventually, follows.
Softening the spendies has helped too. Now wet clay is another story.

Yep, I was short-shifting as much as possible. Speed is good to settle things down alright but those 2nd gear corners...

[george formby]

Yep, I was short-shifting as much as possible. Speed is good to settle things down alright but those 2nd gear corners...



:laugh: Quite a few of the roads I ride up here have steep first gear hairpins, 2nd gear on my 2t trailie. The TDM really makes it's presence felt when you can only see 10ft ahead & the road is almost single lane. I fear a local practicing his drifting more than anything. When it gets that tight I just stuff the bike into the inside camber regardless of the surface & take a whipping from the over hanging foliage.

[banditrider]

I try to avoid 1st gear like the plague - I short-shift to 2nd as soon as possible.

bfpqbq3v2Ww

[warewolf]

Gravel riding with road biased adv tyres on a heavy bike.
Better to have less pressure & have more contact patch with the tyre deforming & roll sideways as you corner or normal pressure & have the tyre kinda cut in to the gravel with minimal roling?"tyre deforming & roll sideways" sounds a little sketchy to me. If that's happening, sounds like not enough pressure. The idea is to have a little more give in the tyre, as a result it will feel a little squishy but not severely or unsettlingly so.

Bear in mind that you have two tyres to get you through the corner. Four strokes load up the front when you shut the throttle. Usually you want to use a little throttle to balance the bike front-to-rear and get both tyres working, that is, in order to avoid over-loading the front. The rear has a bigger contact patch and you want to make use of it. I spent an afternoon on an R100GS earlier this year, did about 100km of gravel road, everything from deep loose goolies to flat hard pack and bouncy rough stuff. It was terrible in corners on a closed throttle, definitely needed a bit of drive from the rear to keep the plot under control. And this bike had fancy after-market suspension, too.

[george formby]

Bear in mind that you have two tyres to get you through the corner. Four strokes load up the front when you shut the throttle. Usually you want to use a little throttle to balance the bike front-to-rear and get both tyres working, that is, in order to avoid over-loading the front. The rear has a bigger contact patch and you want to make use of it. I spent an afternoon on an R100GS earlier this year, did about 100km of gravel road, everything from deep loose goolies to flat hard pack and bouncy rough stuff. It was terrible in corners on a closed throttle, definitely needed a bit of drive from the rear to keep the plot under control.

That paragraph pretty much sums up how to ride an Adventure bike.:yes:

[warewolf]

Does anyone ever stop and change their pressures when changing from road to gravel and vice versa?Only if there is a protracted road transport before or after the dirt, in which case I'll set off running full road pressures, then drop them at the first dirt, then re-inflate before the slog home. But more likely I'll be on-and-off the dirt all the way there and back instead!

[warewolf]

If in doubt go for a ride with 'your' heavy bike and 'your' sealed road bias tyres, full road pressures, go on some gravel bends etc, then circle round, drop 5 or 10psi and go again. Drop more and play more if needed, then pump them back up and see if it turns to crap when you go again.
Testing your own setup should give you the best answer for you.This. But in smaller increments, say 2 psi, as 0.5 psi can make or break. The idea is to chip away at the pressures rather than make radical changes. As an aside, one of the reasons Mick Doohan was so successful was his sense of speed. It was said that a GP racer could set/lift their speed by only 1/4 mph, the idea being they'd approach the limit without over-stepping it, or at least while it was recoverable. But Mick could improve by closer to 1/10 mph and therefore reliably stay just that little bit closer to limit, and thus be faster and crash less. But I digress.

Just get yourself into the groove with the bike, say 30 mins on gravel, then jump off and let a little air out, don't measure just do a few presses of the valve core, and then ride some more. Repeat until it feels worse not better, and then measure what they are at hot (for curiosity's sake more than anything), and again when cold as that's how you set your measured pressures. Now you have a rough figure to refine on your next ride. Start a few psi higher than the good rough figure from last time, but this time be more subtle with the pressure drops. This technique should help you to develop a greater feel for the effect of pressure, and also feel for the tyre's grip. You may find that your perception of grip changes as you concentrate on it more, and you may end up choosing different compromises.

Just remember that if the load, terrain, suspension or tyre changes, you'll have to repeat the exercise! :laugh:

PS You've already done this to set your road pressures, right? :innocent:

[warewolf]

That paragraph pretty much sums up how to ride an Adventure bike.:yes:And road bikes; the big difference being - at least for us mortals - in slow corners, on the dirt rear-wheel steering comes in to play, whereas on tar closing the throttle drops the bike into the apex.

[NordieBoy]

Just remember that if the load, terrain, suspension or tyre changes, you'll have to repeat the exercise! :laugh:

And then you go for a ride and take a photo for the Top Of The South Tag...

:shifty:

[warewolf]

And then you go for a ride and take a photo for the Top Of The South Tag...

:shifty:Subtle as a brick, Nordie! :Punk:

[10bikekid]

Can be a bit hard to put into words, but the number one safety tip would be stay in the left groove untill you have clear visability

I think this can also work well to keep up a good pace as for example heading into a blind right hander you run deep into the corner before turning therefore increasing your visability around the corner and once its clear quickly cross the ridge by squaring off the corning, reducing the time your front wheel is scatting across the loose stuff,

Left hander can be done pretty much the same way by hugging the left groove as long as possible, seen a few guys gas it to early and drift out into the loose pushing the front end then the rest of the bike into harms way if there was oncoming traffic (not to mention it being a slower way around the corner)

Would also recommend grabbing a mates dirt bike, head for a track and learning to use your body weight to seesaw from front to back to learn to search out the required grip, this can be another great way to improve safety and pace in the metal without the risk associated with getting it wrong out there in the big wide world where cars roam


IMHO: :confused:

[dino3310]

Can be a bit hard to put into words, but the number one safety tip would be stay in the left groove untill you have clear visability


IMHO

i just go really slow to avoid loss of traction

[10bikekid]

i just go really slow to avoid loss of traction

You ride a Baja winning Honda, How is that possible:shit:

Your nose is going to grow:facepalm:

[dino3310]

You ride a Baja winning Honda, How is that possible:shit:

Your nose is going to grow:facepalm:

well some call it a skirt some call it a blouse, i just call it being a nana:laugh:

[10bikekid]

well some call it a skirt some call it a blouse, i just call it being a nana:laugh:

Heading to another Baja check point (no loss of traction there says the blind man:no:) :woohoo:

[dino3310]

just posing for the camera bro:msn-wink:

[10bikekid]

just posing for the camera bro:msn-wink:

We wont tell the true story now will we :shutup:

PS, DRBIG is ready to go now (once we do a safe ride just to be sure)

Past an Old mans bed time now :bye:

[dino3310]

We wont tell the true story now will we :shutup:

PS, DRBIG is ready to go now (once we do a safe ride just to be sure)

Past an Old mans bed time now :bye:

are you sticking with the Kenda's on the BIG?

[warewolf]

i just go really slow to avoid loss of tractionI go really slow because I lose traction. Stop even :cry:

[10bikekid]

are you sticking with the Kenda's on the BIG?

I thought about this long and hard Dino and I dont think I can give up all that offroad traction that the Kenda's offer at the moment, turns the Big into, well dare I say, a Big dirt bike :rolleyes:

Am picking the old girl up tomorrow and will do some reliability runs for confidence sake then we can get together for an old friends reunion (I'll bring hankies for you):cry:

[.chris]

It is almost new tire time (got almost 6k out of that Kenda big block).

I was thinking of giving the popular T63 a try, but this means going from the usual 140/80-18 to a 130/80-18.

What should I expect to feel different running the smaller tire?
Also, what sort of km's have people got out of them?

[Night Falcon]

It is almost new tire time (got almost 6k out of that Kenda big block).

I was thinking of giving the popular T63 a try, but this means going from the usual 140/80-18 to a 130/80-18.

What should I expect to feel different running the smaller tire?
Also, what sort of km's have people got out of them?

I ran a T63 rear for about 2000ks. It was probaly half worn when I took it off. Great tire I thought. Didn't notice any problems with the narrower width; actually i think it helps it in wet contitions cos it digs down to the hard stuff better. Roosts gravel pretty good as recall :devil2:

[.chris]

I ran a T63 rear for about 2000ks. It was probaly half worn when I took it off. Great tire I thought. Didn't notice any problems with the narrower width; actually i think it helps it in wet contitions cos it digs down to the hard stuff better. Roosts gravel pretty good as recall :devil2:

Why did you take it off?

[Night Falcon]

Why did you take it off?

I did a tour down the South Island with lots of pavement so didn't want to waste it on that, replaced it with a K60 for the trip...I think. Any who, I planned to use it on the capital cost ride that never happened :mad:. Will get round to using it at some stage I spose :corn:.

[warewolf]

I was thinking of giving the popular T63 a try, but this means going from the usual 140/80-18 to a 130/80-18.

What should I expect to feel different running the smaller tire?
Also, what sort of km's have people got out of them?The bike will turn quicker and have a lower seat height. The size change is not a big deal, the 640E uses it std.

4000km from mine.

[bart]

It is almost new tire time (got almost 6k out of that Kenda big block).

I was thinking of giving the popular T63 a try, but this means going from the usual 140/80-18 to a 130/80-18.

What should I expect to feel different running the smaller tire?
Also, what sort of km's have people got out of them?

I like skinny tyres. Turn quicker and digs through gravel for more traction. Less squirming on top like fat tyres. I'm running a 110 on the back at the moment. Bloody awesome. Looks silly though, and won't last long.

Lucky I pick them up real cheap :laugh:

Fat tyres for show, skinny tyres for go....on gravel anyway.

[.chris]

Thanks for the info guys, seems the 130 should be a pretty good option.

[Matz]

I'm looking for a new rear tyre for my Suzuki Dr 350. I'm riding about 70% street and 30% gravel roads, I was at biketreads today and they recommended me the Pirelli MT 90, in the Internet I found a lot of bad things about this tyre. Has anyone this tyre?

Wich can you recommend? The should last very long (I'm riding about 15000 km a year), the tyre size should be between 120 and 140 /80/ 18

Thanks for help

[NordieBoy]

I'm looking for a new rear tyre for my Suzuki Dr 350. I'm riding about 70% street and 30% gravel roads, I was at biketreads today and they recommended me the Pirelli MT 90, in the Internet I found a lot of bad things about this tyre. Has anyone this tyre?

Wich can you recommend? The should last very long (I'm riding about 15000 km a year), the tyre size should be between 120 and 140 /80/ 18

Thanks for help

Shinko 705's would fit the bill.
Stick a 120 on the rear.

Shinko 244's would be suitable but not get near the mileage.

[clint640]

I'm looking for a new rear tyre for my Suzuki Dr 350. I'm riding about 70% street and 30% gravel roads, I was at biketreads today and they recommended me the Pirelli MT 90, in the Internet I found a lot of bad things about this tyre. Has anyone this tyre?

Wich can you recommend? The should last very long (I'm riding about 15000 km a year), the tyre size should be between 120 and 140 /80/ 18

Thanks for help

I ran an MT90 on the back of the 640 a while back. Ok tyre for the money, lasted about 9K km IIRC, (I am hard on tyres, you should get more on a 350) good on the tar, not much shot on gravel once about 1/3 worn.

Cheers
Clint

[Waipukbiker]

Interesting discussion on the merits of skinnier tyres, I spent 15 years belonging to varios 4wd clubs around the country and was also involved in competitions, there were a lot of off road scenarios where the narrow/aggressive tyres worked better in the mud for exactly the same reason that was mentioned, they dug through the soft crap on top and found traction underneath where the fatter tyres tended to float on top more, if the soft, top layer was deeper then the fatter tyres had an advantge because they kept the diffs out of the mud better so it can vary on the situation.

I also worked with John Deere tractors for few years an got into things like ballasting for maximum traction efficiency. Most modern tractors now have wheel slip indicators, which compares the speed over the ground using a ground speed radar against what the tractor should be doing in any respective gear . If the ground speed dropped below what it should be doing then obviously the wheels were starting to slip. Tractors fitted with 2 skinny duals at the back (and sometimes in the front) generally achieved less sliipage than ones fitted with big fat singles for the same reasons, they tended to get the lugs further into the ground and in some situations, its been proven that the same setup could out perform tractors fitted with rubber tracks.

Like the old saying goes, horsepower is only as effective as to how well you can convert it to traction.

[JATZ]

I'm looking for a new rear tyre for my Suzuki Dr 350. I'm riding about 70% street and 30% gravel roads, I was at biketreads today and they recommended me the Pirelli MT 90, in the Internet I found a lot of bad things about this tyre. Has anyone this tyre?

Wich can you recommend? The should last very long (I'm riding about 15000 km a year), the tyre size should be between 120 and 140 /80/ 18

Thanks for help
Like Nordie said..try a Shinko 705. I had them on my 350 and they wore well. Good for everything except mud and grass.
The missus had a Kenda 761 on her 350 which seemed to be alright too.
If you want more control of the front end, try a Dunlop D606 or similar.

[Waipukbiker]

Mine came with a D605 on the front which is about half worn and Ive had no probs with it at all so far on tar or shingle. (22 psi)

[cooneyr]

Interesting discussion on the merits of skinnier tyres, I spent 15 years belonging to varios 4wd clubs around the country and was also involved in competitions, there were a lot of off road scenarios where the narrow/aggressive tyres worked better in the mud for exactly the same reason that was mentioned, they dug through the soft crap on top and found traction underneath where the fatter tyres tended to float on top more, if the soft, top layer was deeper then the fatter tyres had an advantge because they kept the diffs out of the mud better so it can vary on the situation.

I also worked with John Deere tractors for few years an got into things like ballasting for maximum traction efficiency. Most modern tractors now have wheel slip indicators, which compares the speed over the ground using a ground speed radar against what the tractor should be doing in any respective gear . If the ground speed dropped below what it should be doing then obviously the wheels were starting to slip. Tractors fitted with 2 skinny duals at the back (and sometimes in the front) generally achieved less sliipage than ones fitted with big fat singles for the same reasons, they tended to get the lugs further into the ground and in some situations, its been proven that the same setup could out perform tractors fitted with rubber tracks.

Like the old saying goes, horsepower is only as effective as to how well you can convert it to traction.

I use to play with 4wd's too. Big fan of skinny tyres for SI conditions.

Interesting about the tractors - things have obviously moved on since I was driving them as a 13 year old! So Duals are not always what they are cracked up to be either?

Opps OT.

[Waipukbiker]

Just re checked what I wrote, I mentioned that duals generally achieved less slippage than big singles. Sometimes better floatation is an advantage but for most paddock situations the duals won out.

[brp]

Would a 110/100-18 rear tractionator be to narrow for an xr650r ?

Says in manual recommended tyre size is

Front 3.00 - 21 51P
Rear 4.50 - 18 70P

(Think 120 rear is the standard tyre)

Want the H/T tractionators but supplier can only supply 110/100-18 or 130/90-18’s

Past 130's rub on the muffler when the shock compressed

This site http://www.steelthundercc.com/tiresizes.html reckons 110/90 and 120/90 work out to be both 4.50/4.75 - miffed how that works ???

This one http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-tires/tire-data.htm 110/90 is 4.00/4.75 - does that mean still be ok as falls with in the band - but then the supplied tyre is 110/100 - 18 (is the 100 - mean the profile/height is same height as the width) :brick:


Cheers

[Transalper]

Ha ha and just to worry you more did you know that different makes/models of tyre do the measurements differently so a 110/100R18 in one tyre is not necessarily the same as in another tyre.
Yes the second number is normally a height ratio one... but does that include the knobs or is it just the carcass? I don't know.

[brp]

:D forget what I learned last time - each time by tyres - hopefully in memory bank this time ....

Yep it is the profile height

Lot of conjecture with online charts - some for road bike tyres

Found easiest way is just chuck the imperial measurement into google and ask what equivalent millimeter's is

In my case 4.5 is 114mm so closer to a 110 than a 120 - looks to be a narrow tyre meant togo in the rear


Miffed why the rear profiles sit higher than the front on motorbikes - is it to help weight the front wheel better ?

[cynna]

think they are 2 different measurements - have a look at google

a 110/100-18 is equivalent to a 130/80-18

found a chart on google but now lost it. will post it if i get back online or just google 110/100-18 eqivalent

[brp]

Cheers

Pretty sure they all just metric way of rating "110/100-18 is equivalent to a 130/80-18"

110 mm wide and the height will be 110 mm also cause the 100 is 100% of the width

130 mm wide - 80% of 130 mm would give a height of 104 mm

[topo]

Cheers

Pretty sure they all just metric way of rating "110/100-18 is equivalent to a 130/80-18"

110 mm wide and the height will be 110 mm also cause the 100 is 100% of the width

130 mm wide - 80% of 130 mm would give a height of 104 mm



I ran a tractionator HT desert on my drz400 last year for the dusty it comes in 140 wide and suited the smaller drz very well! i certainly wouldn't go any smaller on the XR.

[cooneyr]

Cheers

Pretty sure they all just metric way of rating "110/100-18 is equivalent to a 130/80-18"

110 mm wide and the height will be 110 mm also cause the 100 is 100% of the width

130 mm wide - 80% of 130 mm would give a height of 104 mm

Gets more complicated than this. The 130/80 includes the tread in the width measurement and the 110/100 generally doesnt i.e. is just carcus width.

Warewolf to the bat phone, warewolf . . (knows his stuff - I forget at the moment but I know there is pages on line with this info).

Gets even screwier when Michelin gets involved as their 120/90 is about he same as a 140/80.

Just get a KTM, then you can simply buy the biggest 18 inch tyre you can and not have to worry about things like this ;)

Cheers R

[dino3310]

if its black round with square looking things and it dont fall of the rim then i put it on the Xr:eek:i get lost with the tire sizing... untill warewolf explains it all again.... then i forget and he explains it yet again... its a never ending circle on this thread:laugh:
there for i am thanking you in advance for the wisdom of tire knowledge you are once again going to explain to us Colin

[brp]

Muffler gets in the way topo on the XR

Yeah my 130 Michelin T63 looks same width as the 120 Dunlop have on the KX - michman all over the place ...


Think the bart man in this thread onto it - "Wide tyres for Show - Narrow for Go"

The 110/100 18 is the factory tyre for the XR - so the sets on its way ....

http://www.motorera.com/honda/h0650/xr650r.htm


Here's a handy site that explains it all http://www.techsweb.us/ref.html


Cherz all

[pete376403]

I've got a 110/90x17 Pirelli MT60 on the back of the KLR - works fine on sealed and gravel roads. Probably sucks on wet grass. It's not wearing any more appreciably that the 130 kenda that was on there before

[brp]

Cheers Pete

Yeah think it balances out the wear with the wider tyre skimming round on the surface all the time.

[Buddha#81]

I ran Tractionator 130/80-18 last year on my 650. Fantastic tyre for under $100. It was pretty much stuffed by the end but i gave it assholes and didnt really care if it was shagged at the end. The front will be doing the next Dusty but it doesnt seem to be on the ground that much :)

I have a Pro Curcuit T4 muffler so dont have the clearance issue.

[brp]

Nice, yeah you good at popping that front wheel up - you had your money's worth out of that bike of yours :niceone:

Had a 140 e07 first time round - current T63 130 leaving very fine mark when rear loaded
so not real tight but didn't want to take the risk with the tractionator having side knobs.
Think what Honda recommends should be the biz too. T63 just about shagged at 1500 km,
"Big Boys Toy" aka Tyre Eater :D

[pete-blen]

Pirelli MT21 rallycross..Has anyone used them....
What sort of km's were you getting ?
Thinking of a set on the XT660 for the DB1

http://www.cycletreads.co.nz/products/326-pirelli_trail/2167-pirelli_mt_21_rallycross.aspx

[Woodman]

Pirelli MT21 rallycross..Has anyone used them....
What sort of km's were you getting ?
Thinking of a set on the XT660 for the DB1

http://www.cycletreads.co.nz/products/326-pirelli_trail/2167-pirelli_mt_21_rallycross.aspx

Bloody good tyre IMHO

I put a brand new rear onfor last years db, 3/4 worn by the time i got home. best bang for buck.

[.chris]

I have ended up with a Motoz Tractionator H/T 140/80, and it looks like it is a huge tire.

http://distilleryimage5.instagram.com/1e5c21b23a9311e29b2522000a9f13d5_7.jpg


The kenda big block is at 5,500km. I don't think I would buy again TKC80 lasts considerably longer for about the same $'ers.

[NordieBoy]

Pirelli MT21 rallycross..Has anyone used them....
What sort of km's were you getting ?
Thinking of a set on the XT660 for the DB1

http://www.cycletreads.co.nz/products/326-pirelli_trail/2167-pirelli_mt_21_rallycross.aspx

Love the fronts, hate the rears.

If you're a rear wheel steerer, then you'll love the rears.
As soon as the rears loose the edge of the knob, they're crap in hardpack as the compound is too hard to cope.

As for the fronts, they're not directional, so you can flip them a couple of times to extend the life. I'd expect 14 odd thou out of them. (2,500 from a rear).
Good sized knobs for road traction and decent gaps for off.

Ideal DB1K tyres would be an MT21 front and Mitas E07 rear.


Perfect tyres would be Shinko 705's front and rear, but some people can't handle perfection...

[Night Falcon]

Love the fronts, hate the rears.

If you're a rear wheel steerer, then you'll love the rears.
As soon as the rears loose the edge of the knob, they're crap in hardpack as the compound is too hard to cope.

As for the fronts, they're not directional, so you can flip them a couple of times to extend the life. I'd expect 14 odd thou out of them. (2,500 from a rear).
Good sized knobs for road traction and decent gaps for off.

Ideal DB1K tyres would be an MT21 front and Mitas E07 rear.


Perfect tyres would be Shinko 705's front and rear, but some people can't handle perfection...

Ditto....love my MT21 front. done probably 2K on it and its hardly worn. Awsome on gravel. At $88.00 I think Its the perfect front adventure tire! Rears are a different story though. I have a k60 fitted at the moment which is a good alround tyre. I got 7k out of the last one and me and the 690 are not kind on rear tyres! I have a new E07 ripening in the shed for my next rear which I'm looking forward to checking out.

[pete-blen]

Perfect tyres would be Shinko 705's front and rear, but some people can't handle perfection...

Thats what I have on at the moment... Really I have never had a prob with them...
Have taken me everywhere I have pointed the bike...

[R650R]

Time for new rear tyre soon. Shinko hasn't lasted much longer than the trailwing which I thought were ok although the tw leading edge seemed to wear quickly... What to put on next...

http://flickr.com/gp/77819625@N08/3p32x9

[Oscar]

Anyone used the Mitas E10?
I've got one coming for my 950.

[_Shrek_]

Anyone used the Mitas E10?
I've got one coming for my 950.

I've had two sets Oscar, they didn't last that long but dam good tyres & tubless :Punk: the 2nd gen E10's are lasting twice as long, so I will put on another set when I've a need

[Oscar]

I've had two sets Oscar, they didn't last that long but dam good tyres & tubless :Punk: the 2nd gen E10's are lasting twice as long, so I will put on another set when I've a need

Thanks for that.
I've got one on the way (150/70X18), and at about half the price of a TKC, I'm hoping for great things..

[_Shrek_]

Thanks for that.
I've got one on the way (150/70X18), and at about half the price of a TKC, I'm hoping for great things..

off road 20psi, 30 on seal, on the big bikes, I don't think you will be disapointed with them

[Oscar]

off road 20psi, 30 on seal, on the big bikes, I don't think you will be disapointed with them

Great work!
That was my next question...

[_Shrek_]

Great work!
That was my next question...

bearing in mind my bike weighs 250kg wet, me 130kgs + 5kgs for extra gear those were the presurses that suited me, if you are lighter than that you may want to try less psi etc...

[george formby]

Pirelli MT21 rallycross..Has anyone used them....
What sort of km's were you getting ?
Thinking of a set on the XT660 for the DB1

http://www.cycletreads.co.nz/products/326-pirelli_trail/2167-pirelli_mt_21_rallycross.aspx

Can't comment on that actual tire but the tread pattern is very similar to the v-rubber on the front of the DT and I love it. Never had a moment on the road, impeccable on gravel & it's reached the point where I leave it on for trail riding instead of putting on a moto x front. The advantage I get from the full knobby is not worth the the time to change wheels. The photo does not show it but you will notice no wispy bits, been right off the edge of the tire. No dramas.

274612

[Waipukbiker]

Which particular V rubber tyre do you use, Ive just had a look at their site and they have a huge selection of tyres.

[pete-blen]

Can't comment on that actual tire but the tread pattern is very similar to the v-rubber on the front of the DT and I love it. Never had a moment on the road, impeccable on gravel & it's reached the point where I leave it on for trail riding instead of putting on a moto x front. The advantage I get from the full knobby is not worth the the time to change wheels. The photo does not show it but you will notice no wispy bits, been right off the edge of the tire. No dramas.

274612


They are my tyre of choice on my XR250 , Dunlop 605 .... Vee Rubber copy is the V221..


Have decided to go with a Dunlop 605 front / Shinko 700 rear for the DB1K.....both rated as 50/50 tyres...

[clint640]

I have ended up with a Motoz Tractionator H/T 140/80, and it looks like it is a huge tire.
.

Been for a ride yet? 1st impressions?

I was just about to get in another E0-7 but the damn things are $220+ freight now. They were a no brainer at $180 but $200+ tyres can kiss my arse. I'd rather run something a bit cheaper & knobbier, not worried about a bit shorter life if the $/km still works out better.

Cheers
Clint

[cooneyr]

Been for a ride yet? 1st impressions?

I was just about to get in another E0-7 but the damn things are $220+ freight now. They were a no brainer at $180 but $200+ tyres can kiss my arse. I'd rather run something a bit cheaper & knobbier, not worried about a bit shorter life if the $/km still works out better.

Cheers
Clint

Hey Clint - have a look at a C02. Not much over $100 and should get pretty reasonable life. Got one on the 450, lost the first few mm pretty quick but taking a fair old time to die. Had a reasonable thrashing and probably done about 3k km with aboyt 5mm tread left (they are about 18mm when new IIRC). Pretty good tyre - used it on trail rides as well (full on mud) and to hooks up acceptably. OK on seal too once you loose the first mm of knurled surface.

Cheers R

[.chris]

Been for a ride yet? 1st impressions?

I was just about to get in another E0-7 but the damn things are $220+ freight now. They were a no brainer at $180 but $200+ tyres can kiss my arse. I'd rather run something a bit cheaper & knobbier, not worried about a bit shorter life if the $/km still works out better.

Cheers
Clint
I am yet to manage more than 10km on it.
But on the quick ride home on it, feels good, not as vibey as expected. Tread seems super deep, I look forward to putting it in some mud.

Will repost in a weeks time when she is 2000km old. ;)

[Kokopelli]

Mrs Kokopelli is very happy with her E07. I think they will be the next tire on my 1150. She currently has a TKC80 front, but like the combination.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v727/Berwyn/DSC04065_zps99d552cc.jpg

[Adux]

Hey Clint - have a look at a C02. Not much over $100 and should get pretty reasonable life. Got one on the 450, lost the first few mm pretty quick but taking a fair old time to die. Had a reasonable thrashing and probably done about 3k km with aboyt 5mm tread left (they are about 18mm when new IIRC). Pretty good tyre - used it on trail rides as well (full on mud) and to hooks up acceptably. OK on seal too once you loose the first mm of knurled surface.

Cheers R

What make of tyre is that R?

Cheers

[Odakyu-sen]

Hello All,

At 3,800 km, the original rear Dunlop is squared off on my KLR650. The front looks like it has several thousand more km in it.

I'll go for a Shinko E705 rear. What pressure do people run this at on the road? On the gravel? I will tour the upper South Island in February, and will need to drop the pressure when I get onto the road to Molsworth. Is 22 psi in the rear on the gravel about right. What about the front? What about on the tar? (I am running 25 psi on the front and 31 in the rear at the moment for the tar.) Too high? Would that explain the rapidity of the rear squaring off?

What do people get out of a Shinko E705 (on a 650)? It had beet be a bit more than 3,800 km, I can say...

[pete-blen]

705s on a XT660R..
I run 25 everywhere...
29 for seal / 20 gravel/dirt is best..
So 25 is the lazy option...

[cooneyr]

What make of tyre is that R?

Cheers

Gidday J

Mitas c-02. talk to Linton at http://dasmoto.co.nz

cheers r

[_Shrek_]

Mrs Kokopelli is very happy with her E07. I think they will be the next tire on my 1150. She currently has a TKC80 front, but like the combination.

:niceone: mrs S is running EO7 on rear & will have one on the front soon, I'm running them front & rear untill the DB1k, will put EO10's back on

[NordieBoy]

I'll go for a Shinko E705 rear. What pressure do people run this at on the road? On the gravel? I will tour the upper South Island in February, and will need to drop the pressure when I get onto the road to Molsworth. Is 22 psi in the rear on the gravel about right. What about the front? What about on the tar? (I am running 25 psi on the front and 31 in the rear at the moment for the tar.) Too high? Would that explain the rapidity of the rear squaring off?

What do people get out of a Shinko E705 (on a 650)? It had beet be a bit more than 3,800 km, I can say...

22psi loaded up with some luggage would be about right on gravel. Unloaded, on a KLR650, 20psi.

Road, loaded, about 28-30psi. Unloaded a couple less.

Fronts, I'd be looking at about 4psi less than the rear, on-road and 20-22psi off-road. Although some fronts feel "heavy" at lower pressures and need bumping up a bit.

I got 12,000km from the last 705 rear on the DR and over 23,000km from the front.
The rear was about 8,000km old before it did the DB1K this year.

[george formby]

I must have put at least 5000k on my rear 705 & still no sign of squaring off. The Scorpion A/T on the front shows more wear..
I've never bothered lowering the pressure for gravel, run about 30 - 32 psi. It's predictable on & off the throttle. 240kg bike all up excluding me.

[Kokopelli]

On my bikes I usually run 33-36 on the road. But I can never be bothered to lower the pressure for gravel. For the Dusty Butt I will go a bit lower, maybe 27-30 or something like that. On a heavy bike, with rocks around, you are asking for trouble with low tire pressures.

A few years ago I put a set of Shinko 705 on the 1150. They were great up to about 5000km, when they delaminated front and rear. I haven't touched them since. I've heard they have fixed that problem, so maybe I'll give them another go, if I am not happy with the E07.

[george formby]

On my bikes I usually run 33-36 on the road. But I can never be bothered to lower the pressure for gravel. For the Dusty Butt I will go a bit lower, maybe 27-30 or something like that. On a heavy bike, with rocks around, you are asking for trouble with low tire pressures.

A few years ago I put a set of Shinko 705 on the 1150. They were great up to about 5000km, when they delaminated front and rear. I haven't touched them since. I've heard they have fixed that problem, so maybe I'll give them another go, if I am not happy with the E07.


Ooh, that's a hot topic. Your not the only one to have had that issue. From all the reports I've read it's unclear if the tires are x ply or radials, shinko do both, radials recommended for big bikes. The big Bm's seem particularly prone too it, but, their are a lot of big Bm's out their... Riding fully loaded at speed in hot weather is another common factor.
The first 705 developed a split across one of the blocks after only a few hundred k's. Could have been a cut from the road/track as much as tire issue, though. They gave me a new one, no questions asked and it is still tickety boo despite the odd 1000k jaunt in hot weather two up & fully loaded. I'm still very much in the great value for money camp.

[Odakyu-sen]

22psi loaded up with some luggage would be about right on gravel. Unloaded, on a KLR650, 20psi.
...........

Thanks for that. I'll get a new rear tire after Christmas.

(If I have any money left.....)

Cheers.

[Kokopelli]

Thanks for that. I'll get a new rear tire after Christmas.

(If I have any money left.....)

Cheers.

If you are relying on it, get it now. I've had a few instance where I could not get what I wanted around Christmas. It is the main riding season after all. Well, that was at Cycletreads, it might different elsewhere.

[Transalper]

Yea, at least get your name on one even if you can not pay for the whole thing now.
Taken about 6 weeks and counting for mine to arrive, they are both in NZ now but a stuff up has meant they are not in CHCH yet. Expected this week finally. These are my DB1K tyres I'm talking about. If I was only to order them for DB1k now and same shit happened again I'd have had to go without.

[Odakyu-sen]

If you are relying on it, get it now.

Good idea.

To get a start, I went out today and bought a nifty little dial tire gauge. My old tire gauge was in bar, but this is in psi. Everyone still uses psi, it seems. My old gauge was starting to leak, plus (for some reason) the needle was only returning to 0.6 bar instead of 0 bar. So I had to subtract 0.6 for every reading. I had had enough of faulty gear, so today at Repco, I broke down and bought their $6.40 special! :eek:

I won't be doing much riding between now and Christmas. All the same, I'll call the tire shops tomorrow to see when they get back from their holidays.

My trip south isn't until late February after the kids go back to school anyway, so I have a bit of time.

[_Shrek_]

A few years ago I put a set of Shinko 705 on the 1150. They were great up to about 5000km, when they delaminated front and rear. I haven't touched them since. I've heard they have fixed that problem, so maybe I'll give them another go, if I am not happy with the E07.


Ooh, that's a hot topic. Your not the only one to have had that issue. From all the reports I've read it's unclear if the tires are x ply or radials, shinko do both, radials recommended for big bikes. The big Bm's seem particularly prone too it, but, their are a lot of big Bm's out their... Riding fully loaded at speed in hot weather is another common factor.
The first 705 developed a split across one of the blocks after only a few hundred k's. Could have been a cut from the road/track as much as tire issue, though. They gave me a new one, no questions asked and it is still tickety boo despite the odd 1000k jaunt in hot weather two up & fully loaded. I'm still very much in the great value for money camp.

I ran a set of rag 705's, back lasted about 2500ks then fell apart, & the front let go on the way up to Waimate after about 200ks on the 1st day, both tyres were replaced with radials, (free) which is what should have been sold to me for the BM, I ran them at 40psi or 42 loaded, they lasted well, but I still did not push them as hard as I would the EO7's

[Adux]

Gidday J

Mitas c-02. talk to Linton at http://dasmoto.co.nz

cheers r

Thanks Ryan, not sure if the C-02 would be a little wide on the little KLX, the C-16 look they may be worth a try, anyone have any experience with them?

Cheers Jon

[cooneyr]

Thanks Ryan, not sure if the C-02 would be a little wide on the little KLX, the C-16 look they may be worth a try, anyone have any experience with them?

Cheers Jon

I've got a C17 on the front (mate of the C16 rear) and it's holding up well on the 450. Transalper ran a C16 rear on his trail bike and if I recall correctly is what he is looking to use on the back of the WR250R for the DB1k. I saw above that Transalper said that the shipment is due into Chch very soon. Suggest you get in touch with DAS quickly if you are keen on a C16 else you won't get one in time for the DB1k.

We should go for a blat some time. I'm heading to NN for Christmas so won't be till after the DB1k itself.

Cheers R

[brp]

Can a 80/100-21 (3.00/3.25-21) Tube be used in a 90/100-21 Tyre ?

Cheers

[brp]

Just looked at an old post - not doable - bugger !

[NordieBoy]

Just looked at an old post - not doable - bugger !

It'll work, just not ideal.

Hell, a 19" tube will fit in a 17-18-19-21" tyre...

[brp]

Cheers Nordie

Just went to bike shop

The IRC tube had to fit 80/100 90/90 90/100 21 inch tyres on the box

Guy that owns the bike shop been in the tyre game for years (what they specialize in) said they only make one
tube for 21 inch tyres

[NordieBoy]

Ideally you want a tube matched to the tyre size so it in inflated, but not stretched to fit. No stress points.

Pirelli do an 80/100-21 and 90/90-21...

[Adux]

I've got a C17 on the front (mate of the C16 rear) and it's holding up well on the 450. Transalper ran a C16 rear on his trail bike and if I recall correctly is what he is looking to use on the back of the WR250R for the DB1k. I saw above that Transalper said that the shipment is due into Chch very soon. Suggest you get in touch with DAS quickly if you are keen on a C16 else you won't get one in time for the DB1k.

We should go for a blat some time. I'm heading to NN for Christmas so won't be till after the DB1k itself.

Cheers R

Dropped in to DAS today and put my name to a C-16 which should arrive in Chch after Christmas now.

We should arrange a blat but free time has been scarce lately, going to try and get up the Rainbow and down the Molesworth before the DB1k for a bit of a shake out.

Cheers J

[clint640]

I am yet to manage more than 10km on it.
But on the quick ride home on it, feels good, not as vibey as expected. Tread seems super deep, I look forward to putting it in some mud.

Will repost in a weeks time when she is 2000km old. ;)

Your week is up ;)

Don't tell me it's crap now though cos I just ordered a Motoz Tractionator HT 140/80-18.:yes: On special $139 delivered from Moto one, no brainer to give one a go at that. Got it delivered to my sister's place at Stavely for a pit stop on the way to the DB.

If it works well I think I'll keep it quiet though, I've been singing the praises of E0-7's for a while & have seen the price go from $140 to $220 while the $ vs euro has improved hugely :scratch:

Cheers
Clint

[NordieBoy]

Yep. My rear of choice is the E07 but if I was paying for it, it'd be a 705 that ended up on the bike.

[pete-blen]

Yep. My rear of choice is the E07 but if I was paying for it, it'd be a 705 that ended up on the bike.

i have just put a Shinko 700 on...Be interesting to see how it goes..

[MXNUT]

Your week is up ;)

Don't tell me it's crap now though cos I just ordered a Motoz Tractionator HT 140/80-18.:yes: On special $139 delivered from Moto one, no brainer to give one a go at that. Got it delivered to my sister's place at Stavely for a pit stop on the way to the DB.

If it works well I think I'll keep it quiet though, I've been singing the praises of E0-7's for a while & have seen the price go from $140 to $220 while the $ vs euro has improved hugely :scratch:

Cheers
Clint

Dont tell everyone about them Clint, they will all want 1.:bash: Then the price will go up.
Thats exactly what i have sitting in the shed ready for the Dusty Butt.
I read a write up in an aussie dirt bike magazine where they did a big ride across the austrailan outback ( somewhere ) on trail bikes and they got 2800 kms out of them .
They werent taking it easy either, so i figure it could be just the tyre for that hard and unforgiving otago rock.:ride::yeah:

I know a few guys on XR650`S used them on the Dusty last year.

[Transalper]

ha ha, just done the same, sick of waiting for Mitas, will still get the Mitas when they arrive but decided to go with the MotoZ HT Tractionator on both wheels for this Dusty.
Seen several people using them and they seem to think they were ok but haven't heard any really good definitive opinions on how they compare with others and no one actually raving about them here. Maybe I havent looked hard enough.
I've been running the IT rear for 1500km now and as expected it is showing signs of about 50% wear but preformed ok enough on single track and riverbed for the price and not to bad on the wet road to Karamea on the WR250R, couple of slight warning slips coming out of corners though a more torquey bike would be sliding all over the place on wet tar I suspect. Am thinking the HT would preform better on wet tar.
Thought about the HT rear/IT front combo but decided stuff it, try the HT set.
Thankfully the WR uses smaller sizes so even cheaper for me at $120 rear 110/100-18 and $99 90/100-21 picked up from one of my locals, no waiting involved though they had been out of HT fronts recently, from Dirt Zone (http://www.dirtzone.co.nz/). Their website doesn't appear to have the full range listed.
The IT range is $10 cheaper each.

[Waipukbiker]

Very interested on how the 700 goes for you Pete, Ive got one on a KL250 and its never given me any cause for regret for putting it on.
I just dont know how well it will go on a bigger bike so I wait for your verdict with interest.

[pete-blen]

Very interested on how the 700 goes for you Pete, Ive got one on a KL250 and its never given me any cause for regret for putting it on.
I just dont know how well it will go on a bigger bike so I wait for your verdict with interest.

They get quite a good rap on ADV... Some say they are the old Kings KT996 ADV
tyre mold bought by Shinko who use a softer rubber compound..

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=366264



..........................

[Waipukbiker]

Had a look right through that thread, very interesting, some good comments in there from riders on the 650cc bikes. I know tyres are very much a personal thing but Ive been impressed with the 700 on my little kwaka ( I did the "long way round" on it with no dramas whatsoever)
Will give the 700 some serious consideration when its tyre change time again.

[brp]

Did 460km of a mix of seal, shingle, rocky tracks -mailing and edwards pass on new set of HT Tractionators - running 110/100-18 and 90/100-21 - rear looks half gone - guy at firestone said to run them at 30 PSI if doing seal, waiting to hear back from chris from Auckland who had 1800 km chalked up on his rear and the wear looked just bit less than mine now, as to what pressure he is running, could be down to that he is running a 130 or 140 too. (XR tyre eater on a good day)

Awesome set of tyre's - felt real sure footed after quick break in time. Glad went back to the XR factory spec of 110 with the tractionator knobs coming round on the sidewall, slight marking on muffler with the 110 - looked to be round same width as the T63 130 I took off.

To fit the heavy duty tubes the guy at firestone who use to fit loads of bike tires when out in rangiora said he always removes the inside valve stem nut or the valve stem ends up being way to short - everything held up well on the run and there was some pretty big hits to the tyres on both passes - deep ruts.

From the group quote I emailed to suppliers - found Mr Motorcycles the best by far on price and service !

[Transalper]

If you going to spin your wheels at every opportunity then nothing will last long... but then I assume you didn't get a BRP to be nursing it places.
Chris indicated to me that the day he played up they showed noticeably more wear than the rest of his trip to date.
Thankfully again slower tyre wear should be another bonus of the small size/weight/power of the WR250R relative to your bike.

[brp]

Cheers, interesting what chris said - All an all was not a day of overly spinning, more constant motion as opposed to lots of stop starts. Think any 110 tyre with better hook up will wear quick. The carcass strong but the blocks seem soft with being able to ride at 30 psi all day and still feel planted off road.
Going upto hanmer on the tar they made a hell of a noise, wished I had ear plugs - the big tall blocks were not liking the tar. On way back was relieved of the vibration coming through the throttle grip when we turned off the tar and hit the shingle to come through harwarden. With rim lock and big meaty knobs prob be a good idea to get wheels balanced - think emoto have fancy balancer ?

Got another rear on its way - hopefully be able to score another rear rim in the future and keep the rear knob for trail rides and single track - and have
other rim shod with an E07 for adventure rides and a tractionator etc front .....

[Transalper]

Running MT21 front and Tractionator IT rear at the moment, first time I've been able to hear tyres over wind.
Wonder if the slightly more vibes I'm feeling are partly tyres, was/am thinking it's just the small single reving a bit and the fact I've only just started taking it on bigger trips. Got a tingle in my hands first day of the Mackley/Rainbow ride. Didn't notice it so much rest of trip, first day was all tar to Karamea from ChCh.

Worn MT21 fronts suck in these conditions, don't know what I was thinking, oh that's right, thought it would be a bit dryer and was trying not to change tyres until closer to the DB1k.
Had the back sorted with decent trail tyre but it ended up pushing the MT21 front about every time I tried to clear it. Lots of front end washouts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbB8lOpqGz8

[brp]

Tyres over the wind :D

Cheerz for the vid - good point about strong rear pushing poor font, yeah with the M21 having the knobs spaced well out no doubt a shocker when worn. I'll prob be looking at motoz's great range of MX tyres for doing trail rides ....

[JATZ]

I've just taken the Fullbore MT40 off the GS after 9000k. It had about .5mm tread left.
Would I buy another....? Probably not, scary as hell on wet seal, otherwise it was adequate but I didn't trust it.
I also need to replace the TKC on the front, any recommendations ? for a similar style tyre

[.chris]

I've just taken the Fullbore MT40 off the GS after 9000k. It had about .5mm tread left.
Would I buy another....? Probably not, scary as hell on wet seal, otherwise it was adequate but I didn't trust it.
I also need to replace the TKC on the front, any recommendations ? for a similar style tyre

I like my Metzlers Karoo2 or Karoo(t). Bit dearer than the MT21's but worth it I reckon.

My report on the Motoz H/T, I am at about 3000km so far, I reckon it is a bit over half worn, I ran it at 30psi on the 690 (fully loaded with gear), it seemed to be wearing very slowly to start, then I had a couple of days where I got a little excited on the tarmac and that took its toll. I would guess I will get 5000km out of it total which for a $150 dollar tire is pretty good.
I have tried to order another one, hopefully it will arrive in time for the db1k, as it might be pretty slick by then. :crazy:

[_Shrek_]

I've just taken the Fullbore MT40 off the GS after 9000k. It had about .5mm tread left.
Would I buy another....? Probably not, scary as hell on wet seal, otherwise it was adequate but I didn't trust it.
I also need to replace the TKC on the front, any recommendations ? for a similar style tyre

mitias E10 works well Jatz for both on & off & they are tubeless

[brp]

Cheers for the pressures you are running chris :niceone:

Jatz Tractionator HT could serve you well


Ordered a Tractionator rear on thursday from Mr Motorcycles and they were expecting it from the
supplier the next day so looks to be plenty in stock - well of 110's anyway - if you mention brp off
kiwibiker recommended them - you too may end up with the unbelievable deal I was given ;)

[R650R]

Brand new Shinko SR244 after going to wanganui via Napier-Taihape rd then forgotten highway to bach near turangi. I don't think it appreciated supermotard style over the gentle annie, it was already looking ripped up when i got to taihape. Tried to treat it a bit nicer for rest of trip :) Plenty grippy, unsure of lifespan though...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8072/8323860872_b59f2d84a5.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77819625@N08/8323860872/)
20121228_4016 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77819625@N08/8323860872/) by DR650NZ (http://www.flickr.com/people/77819625@N08/), on Flickr

[NordieBoy]

Brand new Shinko SR244 after going to wanganui via Napier-Taihape rd then forgotten highway to bach near turangi. I don't think it appreciated supermotard style over the gentle annie, it was already looking ripped up when i got to taihape. Tried to treat it a bit nicer for rest of trip :) Plenty grippy, unsure of lifespan though...

If they made the MT21 out of the 244 compound, I think it'd be better than both.

Can't stand the 244 or MT21 rears. The 244 compound is too soft for the knob size and the MT21 too hard.
Both end up sliding all over the place. Especially on hard pack with loose stuff on top...

[Motu]

Fitted some Dunlop K180's yesterday, 120/90 x 18 both ends, pretty cheap at $124 and they would be on the race compound end of things. They aren't as good as the K70's in gravel, the K70 has more rubber on the road, but the K180 would do better in more off road conditions. They aren't going to move anywhere on seal, but cold damp roads might be a different matter with this compound, and wear rate will be something to keep an eye on too. DOT and tubed.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af212/bmwr65/P1120118_zpsa34bc2ef.jpg

[pete-blen]

If they made the MT21 out of the 244 compound, I think it'd be better than both.

Can't stand the 244 or MT21 rears. The 244 compound is too soft for the knob size and the MT21 too hard.
Both end up sliding all over the place. Especially on hard pack with loose stuff on top...

I just put a Shinko 700 on the rear of the XT660.. seems to stick well on gravel & seal... Has about the
same compound as the 705 but a more aggressive patten...

[Woodman]

Done about 700kms on my shinko 244 rear and I hate the friggen thing so far. Can't wait for it to wear out. Will have to spin it up a lot on the db.

I like mt21 front and rears Nordie,

[NordieBoy]

Done about 700kms on my shinko 244 rear and I hate the friggen thing so far. Can't wait for it to wear out. Will have to spin it up a lot on the db.
Ahem... Testing, testing, 1, 2, 3, 4... Is this thing on?

Right, here goes...

TOLD YOU SO! :bleh:

:wings:


I like mt21 front and rears Nordie,
But you also like rear wheel steering, which matches up with the MT21 rear nicely.

[george formby]

Fitted some Dunlop K180's yesterday, 120/90 x 18 both ends, pretty cheap at $124 and they would be on the race compound end of things. They aren't as good as the K70's in gravel, the K70 has more rubber on the road, but the K180 would do better in more off road conditions. They aren't going to move anywhere on seal, but cold damp roads might be a different matter with this compound, and wear rate will be something to keep an eye on too. DOT and tubed.

That looks fun! A hint of flat tracker... Noice.:niceone:

[dino3310]

Done about 700kms on my shinko 244 rear and I hate the friggen thing so far. Can't wait for it to wear out. Will have to spin it up a lot on the db.

I like mt21 front and rears Nordie,

shit im having a good run on mine, im enjoying the predictable slide into corners under brakes... seal & gravel

[dino3310]

Fitted some Dunlop K180's yesterday,

tires aside, i saw your bike a few years ago and still think it should be embeded in the wall of cool:niceone:

[bart]

Done about 700kms on my shinko 244 rear and I hate the friggen thing so far. Can't wait for it to wear out. Will have to spin it up a lot on the db.

I like mt21 front and rears Nordie,

What width are you running?

I run Kenda K270's which are similar (probably the same). Wide ones (510) are downright dangerous, but I find the narrower version (460) quite acceptable. I think the soft side treads distort a lot when leaning over, causing all sorts of weird slippy action on the seal. Stupidly slippy in the wet. The narrower tyre seems a lot more planted though, and I'd even buy another one. :niceone:

Someone on here recently said "Wide for show, narrow for go". Oh, that's right....it was me. :cool:

[10bikekid]

Dual sport tires are a mystery and ultimately it seems a world of compromise (poetry for the day:shifty:)

Anyway, My observations

Run Pirelli MT90"s on KTM (950ADV) find they are great on the road very good on the metal (at 20-25psi) and pure stink on the sand or wet offroad

Run Kenda trackmaster K700's on DR (750BIG) find they are stink on the road (though I can live with that as lean off the bike to keep tire upright) Ok on the metal (IMHO not as good as the MT90's) and exceptional in the sand and wet offroad (for a dual sport)

At the momment I cant find anything better than these to suit my purpose for what each bike is intended as DR often gets ridden up to Murawia dunes (Via road metal and beach) and if I didnt run this tire I wouldn't get get through my Adv loop

If I try on the MT90 shod KTM I get half way up the first hill and have to dig it out and go back <_<
But the KTM is an absolute weapon on the metal and the road :headbang:

What I do find strange though is that the MT90 is better on the metal than the K700 and am guessing its the transition onto the side knobs when leaning over and the high profile 130/90/17 case flex ? It would be nice to be able to still do my Dune loop on the DR with a better metal and road tire but I cant see that happening :no:

Its a weird dual sport world indeed :confused: