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View Full Version : WANTED, TLS or VTR



lewises
29th May 2004, 11:00
Having just disposed of my Thundercat (Reads WRITTEN OFF) I am now in a position to shel out for another cycle and am looking at a v-twin. Have around $8K to spend. Anything on offer? ANy advice offered most welcome.

V Twin Raver
1st June 2004, 09:54
Hey there Lewises, check out www.trademe.co.nz website, there are a few in there on offer. Particularly the TL's

vifferman
1st June 2004, 10:08
Yeah, what he said.
There are a few VTRs that have been listed for a while, so you should be able to pick one of those up for a song. I actually bought mine last August on TradeMe, and the ones on there at present look to be in better condition, lower kms, so the prices look very good for what you're getting.
You just need to decide what it is you want - the TLS and VTR are the same sort of concept, but the TLS is a bit more sporting, more power, although not such a good all-rounder, and maybe a little more demanding to ride.
The VTR has some issues to be aware of: the camchain tensioners are crap, and can fail (or not) with as little as 20km on them. The front seems to be most at risk, probably because it gets less oil to it, and because it's on the intake side of the camchain. Typically, they go PING when decellerating from high(ish) revs in a low gear. Easily fixed by replacing them when they get noisy, or by fitting APE manual tensioners.
The R/R is another Honda booboo, and this too is easily fixed for about $300 by fitting a heavy-duty one, available from Mt Eden M/C.

Don't let the above comments put you off - the VTR's still a very good bike, and very good value for money.

spudchucka
1st June 2004, 10:32
I've owned both a VTR and a TLS. They are both awesome bikes. The VTR was much easier to ride on an every day basis while the TLS is more the hooligan type machine. The power in the TLS really kicks in from 7000 rpm and goes ballistic to the red line compared to the VTR which starts to run out of puff at around the same rpm. The handling of the TLS leaves a little to be desired. Get one that has an Ohlins or similar rear damper fitted or be prepared to fork out $$$ for one because they make a huge difference. I allways found the front end of the VTR quite dissapointing, bottoming out too easily. Having said that I'm not exactly a featherweight rider either. Try and test ride both bikes as they are very similar but at the same time are extremely different as well. I bought my TL off trademe, the traders handle was "emoto" and I would not hesitate to recommend trading with him.

vifferman
1st June 2004, 11:19
I've owned both a VTR and a TLS. ...blah blah blah.... I allways found the front end of the VTR quite dissapointing, bottoming out too easily.

Oh yeah, that's another deficiency with the VTR - the front springs are reputedly too soft, and the rear shock's a bit harsh. Easily remedied.


Try and test ride both bikes as they are very similar but at the same time are extremely different as well.

So what are you saying, Spud? That the VTR and TLS are exactly the same only completely different? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

spudchucka
1st June 2004, 11:39
So what are you saying, Spud? That the VTR and TLS are exactly the same only completely different? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Sounds pretty Irish I know but thats my experience of these two bikes. I wouldn't say exactly the same, there are many similarities but the two machines are quite different. :confused2

scroter
1st June 2004, 12:13
The VTR is for laid back riders who want a good bike thats easy to ride. The TL is for riders who are prepared to concentrate and its not that easy to ride untill you get used to it. both bikes have shit suspension. VTR too soft in front too hard in back. TL well nothing good you can say about a rotary damper however turn the preload up and the damping down on the rear of the TL and its better still shit but better although I found the TL very forgiving in the rear wheel slide department. never slid the VTR though. in short if your a hoon or got some attitude get a TL but its not really good at cruising(its just too addictive to open the throttle). otherwise get the VTR

lewises
1st June 2004, 12:15
Thanks Guys, appreciate the guidance. I am largish myself, so the prospect of a too soft suspension setup is something I will be aware of. I currently lean towards the TLS for the excitement of more out and out power. I spose the best thing is to ride them and see.

Hoon
1st June 2004, 12:19
Hey what happened to your thundercat? The rear shock and rim on those are very desirable for FZR400 owners.

duckman
1st June 2004, 12:25
I've ridden both the VTR and TL(s) and (r), and I would say go with the TL. You wont get bored with the power for a very long time and the handling can be sorted out as you get more comfortable with going faster...and faster...

The most powerful TL was the 1997 TLS - Just incase you were wanting the full dogs danglies. :blink:

White trash
1st June 2004, 17:16
I
The most powerful TL was the 1997 TLS - Just incase you were wanting the full dogs danglies. :blink:

No it wasn't.

The most powerfull TL was the '98 TL1000R but :whocares:

duckman
1st June 2004, 17:17
No it wasn't.

The most powerfull TL was the '98 TL1000R but :whocares:

Wanna fight about it ??!!!?! :mad: Oh wait... are you sure? :whistle:

jrandom
1st June 2004, 17:25
I am largish myself, so the prospect of a too soft suspension setup is something I will be aware of.

Yup. Haven't ridden either myself but can confirm the word is that the VTR front and TL rear suspension are both utter, utter shite. The TL appears to be the easier bike to get to a fully 'sorted' state though.

If I had a choice on reputation, I'd buy a TL. Don't forget the significant point that it's not a Honda, and therefore your balls will not shrivel up and drop off as you spend each evening carefully polishing the hard-to-get-at bits while extolling the virtues of Safe, Reliable Engineering.

But then - just go ride 'em all and buy what you like.

Quasievil
1st June 2004, 18:15
Get some class chap, why ride something disposable, get a DUCATI, get a pure breed dont go to the pound and get a mongrel, hehe :2guns:

I wonder if that will get some bites ??? :lol:

lewises
1st June 2004, 18:32
Hey what happened to your thundercat? The rear shock and rim on those are very desirable for FZR400 owners.

Some kid bounced a ball across the road and the woman in front of me didn't want to mark her car so she hit the picks in a hurry. I was halfway around a corner when this happened and I had a choice of kerb/bridge rail or car, ended up totalling the front end, it was written off and have signed for disposal of the bike.

vifferman
2nd June 2004, 12:54
Get some class chap, why ride something disposable, get a DUCATI, get a pure breed dont go to the pound and get a mongrel, hehe :2guns:


Quite Rite, Mr Quasievil. Sir.

vifferman
2nd June 2004, 12:56
Yup. Haven't ridden either myself but can confirm the word is that the VTR front and TL rear suspension are both utter, utter shite. The TL appears to be the easier bike to get to a fully 'sorted' state though.

So in other words, you've no idea what you're talking about. :blink:

lewises
2nd June 2004, 14:10
Some more advice please. A guy has offered me a 2000 TLR for $10500 or an 01 TLS for $8500. I understand that the TLR is way heavier but an allround better bike. What say you all to this.
By the way, appreciate the posts, if indirect, they have given me food for thought.

Hoon
2nd June 2004, 14:17
Get the TLR...they usually go for around $13K. Whatever TL you pick make sure to check the rear shock top mount and also the frame by the steering head for cracks.

vifferman
2nd June 2004, 14:30
I'm vaguely aware of the differences between a TLS and TLR (it's basically like a VTR compared to an SP1 or SP2, yes?) But apart from the full fairing on the TLR, what other differences are there? The TLR still has that stupid rotary damper, and basically the same frame and engine?? Or not? Huh??

duckman
2nd June 2004, 14:32
Deffinitely get the TLR - They are usually about 12 - 15 grand so thats a good deal provided the bike is o.k.

Jinx3d
3rd June 2004, 18:18
TLR is a very different bike to the TLS

Obviously the full fairing
also, frame, engine internals, (rods, pistons etc)
Radiators
Rear swing arm
brakes, 6 pots on the R vs 4 on the S model.

etc, I'm sure you know all this.

Apparently the TLR was going to be the Ducati beater in super bike but it was 15 kg heavier than the TLS and never overcame its weight problem.

My impressions of my own TLS

A little heavy on the hands, but tours nicely (6 hour trips)
Punches like a boxer, whoa boy!
Thirsty as a whale, ($17 to fill now, get about 190 km/tank.)
Rotary damper supposedly shite but Ive had no probs so far. The guy at that tyre shop on Barrys point road set it up for me, (which says a lot about how I ride doesnt it!!), and its fine. Apparently the olins damper doubles rear tyre life.
Brakes are fine, two finger stuff.

The only downside is that it's bit difficult to ride smoothly at low low speeds. ie tight roundabouts in the rain, the twin does not transition smoothly between engine braking and roll on power.

Cheers
Mike

Jinx3d
3rd June 2004, 18:24
Get some class chap, why ride something disposable, get a DUCATI, get a pure breed dont go to the pound and get a mongrel, hehe :2guns:

I wonder if that will get some bites ??? :lol:

grrrr *knashing teeth*

Hahahahaha

I will restrain myself and merely point out that the money saved on outright cost and insurance would keep a TL in gas and servicing for its entire useful life and have still have money left over for a very nice pair of boots and helmet.

:-)

dangerous
3rd June 2004, 21:11
Well while this evening, I was waiting for my balls to drop back down while
carefully polishing the hard-to-get-at bits while extolling the virtues of Safe, Reliable Engineering (thank you jrandom :killingme :finger: :msn-wink: )
I was thinking about the TLS v VTR, and while the reports of cam chains going turtle up I have never knowen one that has had this trouble however I do know of two TL motors blowing up one was a mates after he sold it and the other was an other mates in OZ who had a Cagiva (tlr) on a dyno when it totaly lunched itself :(

As for suspension that is a easy fix for either bike however (I know you mentioned a buget but) if you go for the series 2 VTR the suspension was sorted better than the series 1 while it s still no W/P or Peoili etc I find it after a bit of playing around not too bloody bad plus you get all the other extras like a bigger tank and LCD dash.

The end result for you will be which bike you like to ride and which is the more apairling to the eye.

ps: TL became SV cos of the bad handling probs & inj probs but one wicked bike to ride but not for too long, I also know as I had one in OZ.

spudchucka
3rd June 2004, 21:53
Some more advice please. A guy has offered me a 2000 TLR for $10500 or an 01 TLS for $8500. I understand that the TLR is way heavier but an allround better bike. What say you all to this.
By the way, appreciate the posts, if indirect, they have given me food for thought.
Not intended as spam but go here http://www.tlplanet.com for heaps of TL info.

Hoon
3rd June 2004, 22:39
The TL motors are considered to be very reliable and are the best part of the bike! When I had mine it was rock solid even with all the shit I threw at it.
Just have a good read through the TL forums to get an idea.

The TLRs put out more power and yes there are a lot of differences. On the drag strip the TLRs seemed about half a sec faster than my TLS. The rotary damper is fine for 99% of us, just set the preload to its softest and you'll be sweet. However I also found my TLS lacking after a while - only because I was losing to other "lesser" bikes (i.e. GSXR750's, CBR900's etc).
However if racing isn't your thing you'll be more than satisfied on the street.
The low down torquey V-twin is perfect for around town too and you can comfortable blat around without going over 5K.

Ohh another thing was I use to get bad tank slappers on my 97 TLS when changing into 2nd gear sometimes at WOT......but don't let that put you off - you get use to it after a while :)

If I had $10K to buy another bike a TL would be my first choice. All the bad rep that bike has means you can score them for a bargain if you don't mind a bit of attitude.

merv
4th June 2004, 08:00
But apart from the full fairing on the TLR, what other differences are there? The TLR still has that stupid rotary damper, and basically the same frame and engine?? Or not? Huh??

I thought the TLR had a conventional shock and different frame.

Marknz
4th June 2004, 08:55
Haven't ridden either TL's but did do 20K on a 03 VTR1000 in Aussie. Out of the box the front end isn't very good, but get it up correctly (and I'm not talking about internal work either) and it's a very nice ride. I'll step up and even say it was better than my Gixxer is now... I have no confidence in the front end at all, but hope to have that sorted soon after some fettling by WT :whistle: .

Yes, I did have the front cam chain go on the VTR, but I heard it go in time and was saved any serious damage by having them fix it under warranty. Was bloody great for the 14K km after that.

jrandom
4th June 2004, 08:59
So in other words, you've no idea what you're talking about. :blink:

Well, it's more of a "someone that said something to me once reckoned that they had some idea of what *they* were talking about" thing. Not that you should necessarily assume that I'm *not* full of shit. Etc.

scroter
4th June 2004, 12:40
do not set the preload its softest. you will find you will have to stiffen your damping to compensate and this was the problem with cracking frames. stiffen the preload (it handles better anyway) and soften the compression. I had mine set up soft when i bought it and it just wallowed everywhere had the preload stiffened and damping softened. was heaps better.

by the way they are bloody excellent at doin wheeelies

scroter
4th June 2004, 12:42
I thought the TLR had a conventional shock and different frame.

no different rotery damper but still a crap rotary damper

Hoon
4th June 2004, 14:00
do not set the preload its softest. you will find you will have to stiffen your damping to compensate and this was the problem with cracking frames. stiffen the preload (it handles better anyway) and soften the compression.

Whoops sorry yep I meant compression. Been too long with my RGV and ZXR that I forgot other bikes have more rear adjustments than just preload only!! Yeah the flathead screw adjustment from the right hand side of the shock is what I was thinking but the word "preload" just popped into my head.

White trash
5th June 2004, 12:15
Wanna fight about it ??!!!?! :mad: Oh wait... are you sure? :whistle:

No fighting. I'm a weakling.

Nah, I've seen dyno charts for both. The "S" makes more torque through the middle but falls over earlier.

Bleck K6
8th June 2004, 09:53
Before I bought my Tlr I Had ridden a friends TLS, The TLR suited me much better, The TLS & TLR are completely different bikes, frames,front brakes,injection,swingarms,some engine internals,fairings,rear shocks are mounted differently,wheelbase etc.
The rear rotary damper is crap, I replaced mine with a Hagon monoshock,bought it for $795 from motomail,It has made a huge improvement to handling,The rear tyre sticks to the road so much better especially xcellerating out of corners,I can feel the rear tracking the road now & the tyre wear is completely different.
$10,500 is a really good deal for a TLR :niceone:

James Deuce
8th June 2004, 10:57
Before I bought my Tlr I Had ridden a friends TLS, The TLR suited me much better, The TLS & TLR are completely different bikes, frames,front brakes,injection,swingarms,some engine internals,fairings,rear shocks are mounted differently,wheelbase etc.
The rear rotary damper is crap, I replaced mine with a Hagon monoshock,bought it for $795 from motomail,It has made a huge improvement to handling,The rear tyre sticks to the road so much better especially xcellerating out of corners,I can feel the rear tracking the road now & the tyre wear is completely different.
$10,500 is a really good deal for a TLR :niceone:

So you'd recommend the Hagon? I'm thinking about a new rear shock for the TRX and an Ohlins just seems like overkill at $1800.

Bleck K6
8th June 2004, 21:45
So you'd recommend the Hagon? I'm thinking about a new rear shock for the TRX and an Ohlins just seems like overkill at $1800.

I would definately recommend the Hagon shock :niceone: It doesnt have anywhere near the adjustments of an ohlins but at less than half the price its a bargain,And it is such an improvement on the rotary damper,you can find out more about the shocks here.http://www.hagon-shocks.co.uk/HagMono.htm .

James Deuce
8th June 2004, 21:55
I would definately recommend the Hagon shock :niceone: It doesnt have anywhere near the adjustments of an ohlins but at less than half the price its a bargain,And it is such an improvement on the rotary damper,you can find out more about the shocks here.http://www.hagon-shocks.co.uk/HagMono.htm .

Thanks for that! I'll book my birthday present now :)

dangerous
8th June 2004, 22:29
So you'd recommend the Hagon? I'm thinking about a new rear shock for the TRX and an Ohlins just seems like overkill at $1800.

They rate the Hagon a lot on the UK VTR forum that I use, Is the stock shock on the TRX not that good either??