650 production looks likely for 2008

[FROSTY]

In MNZ's agm It looks like they are thinking seriously of ontroducing a "production based" class into the F3 feild.
Definition as to what makes up "production" is as yet to be announced.
The hint is muffler.fork internals and rear shock will be allowed to be changed.
This will let guys on stock er6,hyusungs and SV650's to go out and race em
Looks good to me -ceptn How stock is stock??

[Kickaha]

Looks good to me -ceptn How stock is stock??

yeah as stock as the old 250 proddy class bikes :lol:

they need a few more manufacturers to make it a viable class

[k14]

Well the kwaka er6n would probably be available too if it was up to 650 twins. Wonder about the aprilia 450 v-twin supermotard?

[motobob]

Seems pointless allowing a rear shock to be replaced and only allowing fork internal changes on non adjustable forks. Should allow the rear shock to be standard but modified.

As for the old 250 proddy class, I thought most where stock and it was the rider that made the diff. Having followed Stroud down the straight at Puke convinced me his TZR250 was close to stock. He soon left me behind at the hairpin when the skill part took over.

MNZ should have bikes dynoed and then engines sealed by MNZ rep, airboxes can be checked at scrutineering.

That would make it harder to cheat.

Love to see this in 600SP. That way I can really know how slow I am.

[GSVR]

By 2008 my SV will be well and truely worn out. And by 2008 the new SV650 if they are still making them will be putting out plenty more horses, weigh alot less and have USD forks. Might start saving for one now.

[Hitcher]

Barry at Sawyers is getting very excited about entering an ER-6.

[diesel pig]

I think having the engines sealed is a good idea. Stop alot of bitching.

[Quasievil]

Yeah FUCK OFF 650,s give F3 back to the 400,s that where the real racers are !!!

:wait:

[Buddha#81]

Yeah FUCK OFF 650,s give F3 back to the 400,s that where the real racers are !!!

:wait:


No...... just tell us what you really think!!

[Sparky Bills]

Thats the best they could do really.

Will bring back the competitive class knowen as F3! GO THE 400's!!!
If the Fitzgeralds SV's are what they are basing "production" on, your all in alot of trouble:shutup:

[roogazza]

If the Fitzgeralds SV's are what they are basing "production" on, your all in alot of trouble:shutup:

Will we ever see 'Production' bikes again ? I doubt it , once you start allowing a pipe, a shock, internals of forks you're buggered ! Can't the current generation ride stuff without having Ohlins etc. ?
Are we trying to find the best bike or the best rider here ? I thought racing was about winning not lap times. (yes, its probably safer if thats your game )

Grumpy old fart from the 70's !!!!!!!!!!!!! Gaz.

[SPman]

Stock production - no changes!
If it comes with crap brakes and suspension and you want to race, then thats your lot buddy!
Would make for a bit of real interest out there..........

[212-Motorsport]

Stock with No modifications and controled tyres would certainly make very close and Inexpensive racing,I think I can keep my Sv standard till then and Im 100% behind making this happen..

[motobob]

Yeah FUCK OFF 650,s give F3 back to the 400,s that where the real racers are !!!

:wait:

Bugger off Quas, Those 400 shit box's should be banned :innocent: They already have 125 class for you real racers.

Bring on the Twins. :rockon:

[k14]

Stock production - no changes!
If it comes with crap brakes and suspension and you want to race, then thats your lot buddy!
Would make for a bit of real interest out there..........
Yeah I think the only modifications allowed are end can (no headers) and aftermarket fairings. If they don't allow any mods then a lowside could end up costing alot of money if you have to buy an oem end can.

[Fluffy Cat]

Muffler and shock changes are a good thing. The original shocks are designed to work for peeps in a certain weight range. If you are over that you are stuffed if you cant change the shock. The spring kits are not expensive $500 should get it sorted. Rear shock $1300, end can $700+. Throw in some Race Tech internals $600 or so, yep not bad, how about some super twin racing as well?. The well heeled will get the motor blueprinted and thats just the way it goes.
Sounds good the motors are great shame the rest of the bike is so dull.
Looks like MNZ are starting to think of the future

[212-Motorsport]

I disagree theres a lot of talented riders out there that cant afford expensive things for there bikes

The way it should be done is stadard suspension on a production based tyrelike 600's use if this was to happen this would prove to be a very close class,riders would be on an even playing field and also would be a perfect stepping stone for 150 and 250 proddy bikes...

[BeakerRAT]

Yeah I think the only modifications allowed are end can (no headers) and aftermarket fairings. If they don't allow any mods then a lowside could end up costing alot of money if you have to buy an oem end can.

Perhaps MNZ could get one of the manufacturers onside, some type of rebate system for stock replacement parts? Similar to the Thruxton cup in the US, one make, production based - good advertising exposure for the manufacturer. Seen as a talent scouting exercise with a scholarship reward upto the next level. Or am I just dreaming???

[FROSTY]

I disagree theres a lot of talented riders out there that cant afford expensive things for there bikes

The way it should be done is stadard suspension on a production based tyrelike 600's use if this was to happen this would prove to be a very close class,riders would be on an even playing field and also would be a perfect stepping stone for 150 and 250 proddy bikes...
Dude either you are one amazing rider,you front suspension has already been worked over or you aint taking the SV to the limit.
Ive done 1.5 seasons on My sv and with the stock front end unmodified it was well Bloody scarey. Up to 8/10ths it was great but beyond that and omg
My opinion is the front suspension should remain stock externally and factory TYPE internals. That means you can fit springs and emulators but no cartridge type internals. That in itself made a big difference to my sv.
Rear shock wise. Dunno- Id prefer to be able to replace it--the stock rear shock is shite on sv's
Im all for muffler replacement for only the reason that the stock can is so bloody expensive if ya deck the bike.
Otherwise Im keen on the bike being factory standard.
but the stupid thing is we are reinventing the wheel
2 ways we can go--Open slather like the yanks or 75hp limit and stock profile bikes like the poms-both have a good set of bike rules we could use

[Hillbilly]

Well, here in NSW things are already underway. This invite was given to the Aussie BEARS, asking whether anyone with a Ducati Monster 620 would like to join in:


650 TWINS

Hello all - TG here. Hope its not too cheeky for a Jap bike owner to come here and invite BEARS members to come and race outside of BEARS - but I figured you love racing so might be interested / forgive the presumption.

We are trying to get a new entry-level racing class up in NSW like they already have in Vic & WA - production based 4-stroke twins up to 650cc. St George are currently considering letting this class run together with their Lites - but James Spence of Circuitbreakers has given it the go ahead today, and will allow us to run together with a field where we can be competitive. He's not sure yet which one that will be, and it will depend on what entries he gets for his East Coast Road Race series - but likely their Lites (125/250GP + motards) or else Clubman (600s pre-96) or Womens open. If we can get the numbers up, he'll give us our own class and field to run in. So there is now an opportunity for Ducati Monster 600s and 620s to race against comparable twins (like my Suzuki SV650, Hyosungs GT650R and Kawasaki's ER6) instead of being ummm monstered? by the bigger bikes.



I asked about the Cagiva Raptor 650, and it'll be in there too.

[slowpoke]

Western Australia have recently adopted a new F2 class, which appears very similar to our F3. Suzuki are obviously whole heartedly supporting it by offering a discount to anybody buying a new SV650 to race. Here's a copy of the letter sent to MCRCWA:

"News Item

Motorcycle Racing Club Of WA

Suzuki have offered WA Formula Two class support via an extremely generous discount on new SV650 units. Whilst we can't advertise a price here (due to dealer variation), it will be way below the $SRP of $9890. The significant size of this discount is such that Suzuki will not offer a parts budget, contingency, or other forms of support.

Potential SV650 racers should contact Dean Bonthorne (details below) initially and provide proof of intent to race along with a current racing licence. (Naturally Suzuki want to help genuine racers, not have people try to scam a cheap roadbike!). Order & delivery arrangements will then be handed over to a local Suzuki dealer.

Formula Two is an excellent entry-level class and no doubt the SV650 will be among the favourite weapons of choice for this class with the exciting discount on offer! Note, they are also eligible for the ASC "NK Lites" class.

Dean Bonthorne
Motorcycle Marketing Controller
Suzuki Australia Pty Limited
Ph : (03) 9931 5528"

[212-Motorsport]

Has MNZ done any thing else to confirm this class may happen??

[212-Motorsport]

Dude either you are one amazing rider,you front suspension has already been worked over or you aint taking the SV to the limit.
Ive done 1.5 seasons on My sv and with the stock front end unmodified it was well Bloody scarey. Up to 8/10ths it was great but beyond that and omg
My opinion is the front suspension should remain stock externally and factory TYPE internals. That means you can fit springs and emulators but no cartridge type internals. That in itself made a big difference to my sv.
Rear shock wise. Dunno- Id prefer to be able to replace it--the stock rear shock is shite on sv's
Im all for muffler replacement for only the reason that the stock can is so bloody expensive if ya deck the bike.
Otherwise Im keen on the bike being factory standard.
but the stupid thing is we are reinventing the wheel
2 ways we can go--Open slather like the yanks or 75hp limit and stock profile bikes like the poms-both have a good set of bike rules we could use

Yea Im use to riding with gsxr front end on sv but since purchasing a new sv I have been riding it standard. WHAT A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE IT HAS MADE TO MY RIDING im riding round the problem rather then saying it needs adjusted here and there ete standard sv class means standard if you want to have fancy suspesnion thats wat f3's for.

[FROSTY]

not asking for fancy im just asking for SAFE.
The Sv is widely noted as having a shocking front end
If YOU feel comfortable riding with it --I tip my hat to your supirior riding ability

[sugilite]

Rear Shock mods or after market replacement.
Fork valving and springs.
End can for the exhaust.
Rest of bike stock
Control tyres.
That recipe would quickly have the cream rising to the top.
Go MNZ, it's the right time :first:

[kickingzebra]

Yet part of me supports the idea of allowing people to make horsepower monsters, or try other innovations to improve handling etc. Shouldn't the real racer have a hand in the build of his bike? So then if he does, then shouldn't he enjoy being able to pull away on the straights?

Obviously the well heeled will simply pay someone else to do it, but not allowing mods discourages innovation - Cue the Britten story

[ajturbo]

Bugger off Quas, Those 400 shit box's should be banned :innocent: They already have 125 class for you real racers.

Bring on the Twins. :rockon:

sooooo.... my 79 GT125.twin.... will do then..:first:

[motobob]

Yet part of me supports the idea of allowing people to make horsepower monsters, or try other innovations to improve handling etc. Shouldn't the real racer have a hand in the build of his bike? So then if he does, then shouldn't he enjoy being able to pull away on the straights?

Obviously the well heeled will simply pay someone else to do it, but not allowing mods discourages innovation - Cue the Britten story

Zeb there are other classes for making more horses after all a Highly modded SV can cost the same as modding an F2 or F3.

I say allow the suspension to be modded or replaced, aftermarket can or pipe, full bodywork control tyre for wet and dry races and a PC. No engine mods. This still means a stock SV can still win races but allows racers to gain experience with suspension settings if they want. Oh and still run in the F3 class if entries aren't too high.

[kickingzebra]

Mmm, Fair, Personally though, If I was going to spend craploads on a bike, it would be in f2 or f1, cause f3, though competitive, isn't exactly the grandstand event, so I suspect for most people, running a 10 or 12 K sv or similiar, a year or two old F3 bike for the same cost is way more bang for buck, Most people who are running budgetry constraints, a new SV has already priced themselves out of their budget, I mean if the $5000 odd dollar 400 with parts is competitive with a $12000 new bike, you'd nearly be a loon to buy new?!
I still like svs in principle though... Mmmm twins

[motobob]

I know, but one of the reasons people use the SV is that it is a relatively new machine whereas 400 fours are getting old. They are a cheap entry into F3 but time moves on. The 400,s are wearing out. Interesting that they are relatively competitive still.

[kickingzebra]

That is interesting. Id like to see a wickedly racified SV 650, - Presumably that is what Jason Nairn is running?
The market for 400s in japan is still big though, or so I was told by Japanese friends in 04, simply because their license prevents them from riding a bigger bike at one stage. Maybe there is a HP cap as well, killing development. I dunno.
Would be nice to see what a modern engineered 400 could do.

On a by line, I wonder if you could get away with racing the fzr 800 V8 some aussies made a few years ago, it was about 160 horse at the wheel... and still based on an FZR 400... loosely....

[FROSTY]

MB--I basicly agree with you cept to me its a case of why frigging reinvent the wheel??
The poms and the Yanks have been racing SV's for donkeys years
The poms simply said-"mate do what ya like --the bike must LOOK stock mechanicly and cant be more than 75hp at the back wheel/
That would allow a guy to go into xyz suzukawasakionda and buy a bike and be reasonably competative. By the same account it allows a bloke with an older/cheaper bike to hot it up (find the 10 or more hp they are down on the injected bikes.) Its gotta be a win win
No USD forks and a 75hp cap simple really

[kickingzebra]

But is it all about equal competition?
Its the synergy of man (or Woman) and machine that does it, so to focus on one, at the expense of another seems to cut the equation in half.
It will prove who is the better rider though I suppose!

[212-Motorsport]

Were Renta races Completly standard? Dont no if They were or not I was only 13 then! And to frosty yeah I dont feel that safe with front end either but just have to ride round it

[Keystone19]

But is it all about equal competition?
Its the synergy of man (or Woman) and machine that does it, so to focus on one, at the expense of another seems to cut the equation in half.
It will prove who is the better rider though I suppose!


You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice.


LMAO

[FROSTY]

nope the renta racers had a fork kit.
And keep in mind the injected 650's are pumping out 73 hp out of the box so a 75 hp limit wiould be easy

[bluninja]

nope the renta racers had a fork kit.
And keep in mind the injected 650's are pumping out 73 hp out of the box so a 75 hp limit wiould be easy

Bugger...and I bought and raced a standard SV in the SV650 class against the rent a racers. No wonder I struggled (ignoring my size and lack of ability). Funny but I went slower after I upgraded the suspension.

Are people still bleating about F3 and SV650s?? I'd have though 4 years would have been enough to sort it.

Whilst you are levelling the playing field why not make skinny runt (I said Runt) riders carry ballast to say 80 kg total rider weight(fully kitted). Or maybe set a power to weight ratio so that we are more even. Face it, people with money will find an advantage in the rules, or move to a class that is more advantageous. It's a case of how much do you want to win??

[kickingzebra]

You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice.


LMAO

Jill is my hero... Sigh

[roogazza]

Are people still bleating about F3 and SV650s?? I'd have though 4 years would have been enough to sort it.

Whilst you are levelling the playing field why not make skinny runt (I said Runt) riders carry ballast to say 80 kg total rider weight(fully kitted). Or maybe set a power to weight ratio so that we are more even. Face it, people with money will find an advantage in the rules, or move to a class that is more advantageous. It's a case of how much do you want to win??

Has this F3 and SV650 debate been going on four years ? Why doesn't that surprise me ? I'd be a starter for an SV, but knowing my luck the powers that be will ban them. Clear direction from MNZ would be good !

As above , controlling weight wouldn't be a bad idea, A mate of mine ran with us in 410 , light years ago and he weighed about 7.5 stones ringing wet and in his socks ! It was like he had a turbo compared to my 12.5..

ps. and remember we didn't have fork kits or shocks and hell, our tires were round and black ! you could run TT 100's or TT100's !! Talk about level playing field ?!!!!!!!! Gaz. :yes:

[Blackflagged]

How do you delete these,after you write them?