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FROSTY
30th May 2004, 22:46
I was thinking maybee it might be an idea to start a kiwibiker racing club.
The whole idea is to be some sort of club so we can hire tracks like manfeild easier.
It wouldnt represent the KB forum of course
I know its a whole lot of hassle and there are a lot of reasons not to
But with the way manfeild is going and with track owners gettting paranoid I
wonder how long were going to be able to have open days without it?

svs
31st May 2004, 09:12
Its sounds like it might be a plan but....

The reason why it's so difficult to hire out Manfeild is that you need 3rd party liability insurance to run an event. It's not enough to have folks sign a disclaimer. All the bike clubs like Vic, AMCC, Pacific are affiliated to MNZ and are covered through that organisation. But if any KB club was affiliated to MNZ, then all members would probably need a competition license to be covered anyway - in which case may as well just join a club and get out on the test days.

I don't think you could (legally) get away saying its a private hire, and then inviting a bunch of people to hoon around. If someone was badly hurt or killed themselves, then the organisers may/would still be liable.

Not wanting to put the idea down or anything, but I did speak to Manfeild event a while back and had a bit of a chat about what was involved about hiring the circuit out and it wasn't that easy, Manfeild need to cover their ass too.

Again, don't want to put a good idea down :bash: , but youneed to know what you're going to come up against.

FROSTY
31st May 2004, 10:33
Yep I sure do--its the public liability insurance and track damage insurance im trying to sort out.
I think as a club it mightnt be too bad--
That side of things dont really worry me actually
Its all the BS and politicing that goes on when you have a "club"
and the them versus us mentality.
-Heres a senario- say for example We organise a track day for the "club"
The buck has to stop somewhere - So say someone is eitther A being a total idiot or B turns up with a bike that isn't safe to be on the track
someone has to tell em -nope youre off the track.
Its a situation that noone wants to be in --the nasty bugger saying--go away.
That said I still think maybee it has merit as an idea to follow up.
I mean greg powel is doing quite nicely with the woodhill forest rides

FROSTY
1st June 2004, 11:15
noone else got feedback here -If the idea sucks cool but if it has merit why not see how far we can go with it?

Motoracer
1st June 2004, 11:35
Maybe you should start a poll saying. Who would like to become a member of this club?

You've got my vote but I wonder how many KB racers there really are to make up a decent club. I wouldn't know so I am interested to find out.

FROSTY
1st June 2004, 12:16
good idea MR ill do that -as soon as I figure out how --arggg

Racey Rider
1st June 2004, 12:39
I haven't understood yet why we need a KBRacers Club? Am I missing something or can't we just turn up to open track test days as before? I have read the thread about road bike days being cancelled, but road bikes can still come to the test days, where as us race bikers couldn't come to the road bike days.
Seems to be a lot of unnessary pressure on "us" ( a proposed KBR club) to sort everything & come up with the track hire money RAIN or Shine!

Deano
1st June 2004, 12:46
I haven't understood yet why we need a KBRacers Club? Am I missing something or can't we just turn up to open track test days as before? I have read the thread about road bike days being cancelled, but road bikes can still come to the test days, where as us race bikers couldn't come to the road bike days.
Seems to be a lot of unnessary pressure on "us" ( a proposed KBR club) to sort everything & come up with the track hire money RAIN or Shine!

Which begs the question, "who takes responsibility for the test days, if road bikes are allowed to participate ?" - why is it any different to an open day.

I would be interested in a KB club, but the $$$ for rain or shine would be a handicap.

FROSTY
1st June 2004, 16:03
Thats a detail to work out for sure.
I've spoken to the owner of pukekohe track and I got an outline of what would be involved to hire the track.
1 would be track hire
2 would be fire protection equipment
3 would be medical assistance
4 would be public liability insurance -to cover guys getting hurt or damaging someone elses property.
5 - track damage cover.
Im guessing the same would apply at manfeild.
and yep the whole what if it rains question is a big one -like who pays what and how much,
Hey its an idea only mostly i must say in reaction to manfeild promotions attitude.
If the existing clubs have their track time set aside for other things rs maybee someone-or someones needs to get off their butt and organise it so we all get at least 4 track days a year

Kwaka-Kid
2nd August 2004, 11:51
call me late - but how far did this go? if the track can be cheaper i want in on the idea!

Drunken Monkey
2nd August 2004, 14:00
I haven't understood yet why we need a KBRacers Club? Am I missing something or can't we just turn up to open track test days as before? I have read the thread about road bike days being cancelled, but road bikes can still come to the test days, where as us race bikers couldn't come to the road bike days.
Seems to be a lot of unnessary pressure on "us" ( a proposed KBR club) to sort everything & come up with the track hire money RAIN or Shine!

That all depends on whether Frosty is trying to organise a proper racing club, ie fixed grid or against the clock racing, or whather he just wants to make it easier for us to have 'KB only' type controlled testing/open days. I'm all for the latter, but at this stage I'm not interested in serious circuit racing. Also, being a 'hobbyist', wet weather will be enough to put me off, and damned if I'm going to pre-pay for track use that I'm not going to be inclined to use. A lot of other 'casuals' would probably be in the same boat, I reckon.

I don't think we actually need to be an official 'club' to make a private track booking anyway. Companies like Mitsubishi have regular track bookings for new product launches. Same rules as the controlled testing days, ie there are several basic safety rules that must be followed and there is no 'proper' racing off the grid - other than that, the direction of travel is clockwise and you can do what you want...

Frosty, care to elaborate your intentions?

Kwaka-Kid
2nd August 2004, 14:56
im with you lessthensober monkey!

Hoon
2nd August 2004, 16:01
Also, being a 'hobbyist', wet weather will be enough to put me off, and damned if I'm going to pre-pay for track use that I'm not going to be inclined to use. A lot of other 'casuals' would probably be in the same boat, I reckon.

I don't think we actually need to be an official 'club' to make a private track booking anyway. Companies like Mitsubishi have regular track bookings for new product launches.

Yes that is the problem.
- To hire the track requires money up front.
- To get money up front requires people to pay before the day.

Firefight
3rd August 2004, 07:42
I was thinking maybee it might be an idea to start a kiwibiker racing club.
The whole idea is to be some sort of club so we can hire tracks like manfeild easier.
It wouldnt represent the KB forum of course
I know its a whole lot of hassle and there are a lot of reasons not to
But with the way manfeild is going and with track owners gettting paranoid I
wonder how long were going to be able to have open days without it?


Yeah, well thats a big call Frosty !, I would think there would be a few liability issues to deal with, however, am happy to offer support for medical and firefighting requirments,should this idea take off, I commend you for trying to get these things up and running for the KB girls and guys.

F/F :wacko:

FROSTY
5th August 2004, 13:56
That all depends on whether Frosty is trying to organise a proper racing club, ie fixed grid or against the clock racing, or whather he just wants to make it easier for us to have 'KB only' type controlled testing/open days. I'm all for the latter, but at this stage I'm not interested in serious circuit racing. Also, being a 'hobbyist', wet weather will be enough to put me off, and damned if I'm going to pre-pay for track use that I'm not going to be inclined to use. A lot of other 'casuals' would probably be in the same boat, I reckon.

I don't think we actually need to be an official 'club' to make a private track booking anyway. Companies like Mitsubishi have regular track bookings for new product launches. Same rules as the controlled testing days, ie there are several basic safety rules that must be followed and there is no 'proper' racing off the grid - other than that, the direction of travel is clockwise and you can do what you want...

Frosty, care to elaborate your intentions?
DM and others. This is why I shelved the idea.
It's very much a case of yea organise it -I might turn up. :mad:
at the end of the day with a track hire someone needs to put their balls on the line and front the money.
Now with pukie its gonna cost about $4000 to rent the track,pay for fire equipment, public liability insurance, supply lunch for marshalls etc-- and those costs happen come rain or shine.
I've done a tally up of costs.
My reasoning was if I could get a $80 non refundable deposit from 50 KB members then I'd have the costs covered.
I was going to structure the pricing so that EOD was $30 dearer than prepay.
Like anyone here I can't afford to throw away huge sums of money but $80 wont break my bank.
The odvious question is -what if more than 50 turn up and
Well bugger me I make a profit.
That money can go to the site or be plowed under so the next track day will be cheaper.
Without Being MNZ affiliated and running a "propper" race meeting we can't actually "race'
My idea though was to have it run as a propper practice.
You could run in A B or C grade a being fast c being novice riders and guys that only want to circulate the track.be being middle speed. -decided by your feelings of your bike/rider pace.
We would do one full lap then grid up and have a someone start us.
10 lap sessions -determined by the fastest rider crossing the line on lap 10.
It would be a taste of what its like to race but with no real winners so no point in going at 10/10ths
I've got a fair few ideas and its like a middle line between a normal track day and real racing.

Racey Rider
5th August 2004, 15:16
So for all this effort and risk to you, And a $80 pay even if it rains risk to us, what are we getting that we wouldn't get by just turning up at a test day if we feel the weather is right on the day?

I'm no expert, so correct me where I'm wrong.

Test day: $80 on the day. Cars are there too. we get maybe 8-10 20m sessions. Don't need race license.

Proposed KB club track day: $80 - well in advance. no refund if it's wet or something else comes up. (ie. mother-in-laws funeral). (Well,, maybe bad example!).
Marshells on the corners? Grid starts. Pick a Saturday??

Who's going to run it? Us? you mean me? you want me to do the flags on the corner thing at different times through out the day?

50 sounds like a lot to me. Are there 50 of us that are even interested, let alone committed?
But Good on you Frosty for helping us work through the issues.

FROSTY
5th August 2004, 15:43
the difference is that it would be a bike only day --no bloody drifters on the track.
That would mean no more than a 20 minute wait to get back on the track.
I had a few ideas about the marshalls I think at pukie we would only need 4
marshalls -for the top of the "hill" ,hairpin and castrol.
As for getting 50 entrys well I figure a saturday /sunday would get the most people out. and I will definitely be promoting C grade for people nervous about getting mixed up with the "fast nutters" -I can think of at least 3 KB members who feel that way and would love to say they have ridden around pukie--but at their own pace.
The idea with C grade was to have a couple of the race guys lead people round the track for the first session.
The starting grid idea is just to give those that want to a taste of a racing start without the pressure of needing a race licence.
If I couldn't get 50 from KB I'd look to AMCC-theres always guys looking to practice

Waylander
26th April 2005, 00:34
So did this go anywhere or did it just dead end? Would be interested if I can get a job and keep it. Exspecially if/when I get a sport bike.

justsomeguy
26th April 2005, 00:46
So did this go anywhere or did it just dead end? Would be interested if I can get a job and keep it. Exspecially if/when I get a sport bike.

Yes it did you tool :D ........ forgot about the 10th of April???? Huge respect for Frosty for actually pulling it off!!!!:niceone:

Waylander
26th April 2005, 00:50
Yes it did you tool :D ........ forgot about the 10th of April???? Huge respect for Frosty for actually pulling it off!!!!:niceone:
Tool? I like Tool, 'specialy thier song sober. Anyway I thought that was just a random orginized thing for KB didn't know it was a club.

FROSTY
26th April 2005, 01:13
bloomin heck I forgot about that thread.
lloks like KB itself is big enough to russle up 50 entrys easy

wari
26th April 2005, 02:03
bloomin heck I forgot about that thread.
lloks like KB itself is big enough to russle up 50 entrys easy

WOO-dent that be da bomb ... :spudwow:

AM I alllowed to say bomb ... :yes:

gav
26th April 2005, 07:02
So will we see a Team KiwiBiker entry in the Endurance race at Puke in a couple of weeks? Black and yellow bikes, with the KB logo, matching leathers and pit crew in KB shirts?

justsomeguy
26th April 2005, 07:24
WOO-dent that be da bomb ... :spudwow:

AM I alllowed to say bomb ... :yes:

you and your bloody spelling :killingme :laugh: :lol:

Oh GOD!!! he said Bomb:no: - terrorist------ call 911 now:mad:

justsomeguy
26th April 2005, 07:26
So will we see a Team KiwiBiker entry in the Endurance race at Puke in a couple of weeks? Black and yellow bikes, with the KB logo, matching leathers and pit crew in KB shirts?

I'm sure we would be able to rustle up a pit crew, racers, bikes, etc. Only thing is it may be in 1:24 scale...... would that be a problem???

JohnBoy
26th April 2005, 10:34
would any body know how what would be involved for "KBR" to be affiliated with MNZ?? then i would be really keen

TwoSeven
26th April 2005, 10:37
Might I make a different suggestion.

I think having a KB club may be a good idea, but not in the way as first suggested.

There are a couple of issues already listed such as third party insurance, track day organisation and the fact that many KB folks are all over the country (no good to me having an event at manfield while i'm in chch) etc.

So I would suggest that having a KB club is good, but leverage the local clubs and affiliations for actually organising and running the meets. You could just have a local KB section that turns up as a group.

There are a few benefits of this.

First of all having a group of like minded individuals turn up at an event means that people can share equipment which helps those that cant afford it all. I often see folks running back and forth lending and borrowing.

Also, after a ride it helps to have someone to debrief with. Being able to chat to someone about the ride you've just done and then discuss ways of improving bits while waiting for the next ride is a good way of self improvement. You dont need to talk to someone who is experienced, just someone who is a like frame of mind, since expressing an issue often results in you coming up with your own solution.

For people who's bikes failed testing, dont send em away, use em as pit crew, while they work on their bike (with the aid of others). I've often seen riders struggling with getting their bikes on or off paddock stands, or trying to hold it while they adjust something in a mad panic while people are watching amused. Really it should be good to have people do all that for you.

Finally, when you put a group of like minded individuals in a group the technical word for it is called a 'team'.

Kwaka-Kid
26th April 2005, 20:31
Twoseven makes much sense!

in all honesty i think hes hit the nail on the head

also i dont think Keith Brock Racing would like us taking his initials for a race team :D