Motu hits a big one....

[Motu]

I'm always on your guys backs about keeping your bloody eyes open,there's no excuse for running into something that ''just appears'' in front of you.Here's some ammo if you've ever felt like giving me some shit.

I'm coming home tonight down Te Ohaki Rd,that's the road from the Rangiriri bridge to the power station in the Pajero....on the road again with a brand new cyl head and camshaft.Not a lot of traffic on this road,maybe half a dozen cars on a busy night,I'm doing 100kph listening to Marcus Lush having difficulty sorting his CD collection into alphabetical order.On the straight past the golf club another car comes the other way,so I dip my lights.Dip for me is still pretty damn powerful,my lighting is illegal - my ''driving'' lamps are dual fillament,high and low beam.

As we get ready to cross - a frigging huge cardboard box is in the road in front of me! And split seconds to make a desicion.I can't swerve around it as I'll hit the car on the otherside,it's going to be a pretty serious panic stop,and I may not retain control of the Pajero...this is kinda out of it's design profile.So in one blink I've got to decide if it's an empty box...or does it contain a washing machine or fridge....or maybe a 4 year old kid...???...

KABOOM!!! - I reckon it's empty so take it out! I finally stop 50 meters down the road and walk back to check it out and clear the debri....I just happen to have a million candle power torch with me tonight.Phew - no 4 year old kid inside.

I drive this road everyday,in the dark mornings it's thick with fog - and I drive at 100kph,absolutely zero visability.I'm ok with the things I can see...but things I can't see? Like a cow,a drunk lying in the road...shit load of things can go wrong.I can't see a huge cardboard box sitting high in a 4x4 with 230 watts of lighting on a clear night.I have a recipie for disaster...don't take much for it all to go wrong....

[Quasievil]

I'm always on your guys backs about keeping your bloody eyes open,there's no excuse for running into something that ''just appears'' in front of you.Here's some ammo if you've ever felt like giving me some shit.

I'm coming home tonight down Te Ohaki Rd,that's the road from the Rangiriri bridge to the power station in the Pajero....on the road again with a brand new cyl head and camshaft.Not a lot of traffic on this road,maybe half a dozen cars on a busy night,I'm doing 100kph listening to Marcus Lush having difficulty sorting his CD collection into alphabetical order.On the straight past the golf club another car comes the other way,so I dip my lights.Dip for me is still pretty damn powerful,my lighting is illegal - my ''driving'' lamps are dual fillament,high and low beam.

As we get ready to cross - a frigging huge cardboard box is in the road in front of me! And split seconds to make a desicion.I can't swerve around it as I'll hit the car on the otherside,it's going to be a pretty serious panic stop,and I may not retain control of the Pajero...this is kinda out of it's design profile.So in one blink I've got to decide if it's an empty box...or does it contain a washing machine or fridge....or maybe a 4 year old kid...???...

KABOOM!!! - I reckon it's empty so take it out! I finally stop 50 meters down the road and walk back to check it out and clear the debri....I just happen to have a million candle power toch with me tonight.Phew - no 4 year old kid inside.

I drive this road everyday,in the dark mornings it's thick with fog - and I drive at 100kph,absolutely zero visability.I'm ok with the things I can see...but things I can't see? Like a cow,a drunk lying in the road...shit load of things can go wrong.I can't see a huge cardboard box sitting high in a 4x4 with 230 watts of lighting on a clear night.I have a recipie for disaster...don't much for it all to go wrong....

mate ya cant control everything, but you did a fine job of making that decision to take the box on instead of braking or swerving into another car, both of thos options could have been very serious, you took the right move even though it was a risk.
Im impressed !!

[Mr. Peanut]

At least you were't on ya bike :yes:

[The_Dover]

a drunk lying in the road....

where do you live?

I'll keep my eyes open for a blind old fart in a Pajero

[sAsLEX]

At least you were't on ya bike :yes:

no time to turn, do the same prey for empty and whack open the throttle and wheelie through it!



ok that wouldnt work on my bike

[Skyryder]

There was a discusion way way back about decision making and how if you made the wrong one you only had yourself to blame. I argued that sometimes no matter how careful you ride there are sometimes situations that arise when you can never be in control. You made the right decision with the box being empty but if a "four" year old kid had have been in the box it would have been the wrong one. Lady luck was riding with you on this one Motu.

Skyryder

[oldrider]

Hey Motu, did that box have any teeth marks in it? It may not have been past it's use by date! :innocent:

[yungatart]

You were lucky Motu. My advice... ditch Marcus Lush, he's prolly the reason it all went pear-shaped.

[myvice]

Stick Marcus Lush in a box and...

[XTC]

I finally got ya with the box!!!! All those nights wasted waiting for you to come along! Sometimes it'd blow away or someone else would remove it before you got there. My life is now complete and I can go onto something else... Maybe concrete blocks off an overbridge? What do ya reckon?

[Ixion]

Nay, now you play the clincher.Now Mr Motu has decided to drive onto the boxes. Another box, the same looking, same place. But this one is filled with concrete.

[XTC]

Now that's just nasty.....

[Motu]

If I was on a bike I would of been able to get between the box and oncoming car,with practically no evasive action at all.There was no real chance of a kid being inside,but I mentioned it because it did go through my mind,worst case alarm bells.By the way the box was lying I was pretty sure there was no heavy machine inside,but it was a box made for such items.So I hoped it would be empty...my other thought was it fell off a removal truck,someones trailer....so full off clothes,a stereo,crockery.I was pretty sure the Pajero would make quick work of that.All that to think through in a split second.

Random events - we've talked about them before.All you can do is make sure everything else is in place for when you get one.

[Motu]

I finally got ya with the box!!!! All those nights wasted waiting for you to come along! Sometimes it'd blow away or someone else would remove it before you got there. My life is now complete and I can go onto something else... Maybe concrete blocks off an overbridge? What do ya reckon?

YOU BASTARDS!!!!!

[XTC]

If it had been a suitcase it might have had an Asian inside.......

[Ixion]

Now that's just nasty.....

You're right. I'm ashamed of m'self.


Now, where's me shovel. I can never remember the ruddy ratio. Is it 1:2:3 ?

[N4CR]

My mate had a similar incident but with a bin on a dark night and only car lights on.. oncoming car clipped a bin at 60k into his lane as they didn't see it.. he only saw a faint outline then clunk and a bin flying towards him.. fully caved the bumper in.

Woulda been a dead bikey in that situation.

Was a full size wheelie bin. Strong things, seen cars use them as bumpers for powerpoles before..

[marty]

harris st huntly. 1991. fridge box on the road. clipped by 2 cars, 3rd one lined it up to hit it square on, 2 kids push it over and run out from inside it. motu said it - could have been awful.

[paturoa]

I've hit a few things over the years, but mostly when there is no time to even think about it. - scary stuff huntly story!

[Motu]

Not much chance of a kid being in it considering where it was - but that's the sort of asumption that ends up in things going wrong in a big way.Maybe I recalled Marty's case subconciously.

What concerns me is why I didn't see it until it was too late - my lights are excellent even on dip,230 watts should be enough.I'd like to think I'm not outdriving my lights,so one night when no one is around I might do a panic stop from 100kph at max range on dip.It always worries me when you dip your lights for an oncoming car at night,and all of a sudden you are driving/riding blind at speed.Maybe our two opposing beams somehow cannelled it out,hidding it from view.I think I also look somewhere else with an approaching vehicle at night,as you are supposed to - so I either look to the side of the road,or even further ahead past my headlight beams.As always,a series of events leading up to a potential problem....there is usualy never only one factor involved.

If I was in the van I've been using the last couple of weeks or in a car,the box might of gone underneath and made me lose control - makes me feel better about using the Pajero,ready for any situation....except going fast.

[sAsLEX]

harris st huntly. 1991. fridge box on the road. clipped by 2 cars, 3rd one lined it up to hit it square on, 2 kids push it over and run out from inside it. motu said it - could have been awful.

Darwin had some good points, kids who play on the road obviously aint from the high end of the gene pool!

[sunhuntin]

was readin the dom post yesterday...newborn baby was run over by numerous cars before being discovered...wrapped in a red plastic bag. was in one of the asian countries i think....they dont know if the baby was dead or alive prior to being on the road.

[chickenfunkstar]

Its situations like this that make me hesitant to ride twisty roads at night, particularly if its raining or there's lots of spray around because it has been raining recently. When a car is coming towards you and the light from its headlights is refracting in every direction through the water on your helmet, it makes things really difficult. Some of corners i've had to ride from memory because it was near impossible to even see which way the road goes. If there was gravel, diesel or any other debries on the road, i'd have had no chance to see them.

[Squeak the Rat]

The box didn't exist until you saw it. You should have kept your eyes shut.....


Being a biker it's quite likely that you were being reasonably alert, so a trick of the light is likely - perhaps it looked like a road marking, or your brain just didn't expect to see a box.....

Controversial thought, maybe we need to be more understanding when cages say they didn't see the bike.......

[SPman]

We get this potential situation every morning and evening, in particular, with Roos. It certainly makes you think about the potential for disaster and not outdriving your lights! With an oncoming vehicle and having to dip....and that bloody dark spot ahead of you.........amazing how you drop your speeds......

[Str8 Jacket]

Darwin had some good points, kids who play on the road obviously aint from the high end of the gene pool!


Hehe reminds me of my brother (who is EXTREMELY smart btw) who used to play on the main road in Ohakune with his toy trucks when he was a toddler, he would sneak out of a window in the house and do it cause mum would give him a hiding for doing it. The olds ended up building a fence he couldnt jump over or climb under to stop him....

Off topic sorry!

[Motu]

I've always been puzzled with how come on a narrow road when a car is coming the other way,and a tractor is parked on the side of the road,or some other obstical - you always meet exactly at the danger spot? If someone was faster or slower it wouldn't be a problem....we seem to syncronise the meeting point.I met the other car at exactly the point I plowed into the cardboard box...I didn't see the box until too late,so maybe he matched his speed so we could cross at the right time?

[Ixion]

I also have often wondered this. You can drive for miles along a straightish road, without encountering a single oncoming vehicle. But, get to the one fastish blind corner, and half way round , you can guarantee to encounter a whole convoy.

There must be some law of the universe that ordains that traffic will meet at the most hazardous and inconvenient points.

[scumdog]

I've always been puzzled with how come on a narrow road when a car is coming the other way,and a tractor is parked on the side of the road,or some other obstical - you always meet exactly at the danger spot? If someone was faster or slower it wouldn't be a problem....we seem to syncronise the meeting point.I met the other car at exactly the point I plowed into the cardboard box...I didn't see the box until too late,so maybe he matched his speed so we could cross at the right time?

Was a fatal down this way a few years ago.
Early morning out in the country, still dark, older chap riding sensibly on straight road, oncoming vehicle approaches, rider moves a little to the left as oncoming vehicle get nearer, BANG! rider hits deck of farm ute parked at right-angles to road as cocky got out to open gate into paddock, deck of ute was still out on the road by a bit.

[The_Dover]

Isn't it Motu and Ixion that always tell us that ALL accidents are avoidable?

Just clearly not all cardboard boxes.

[Wolf]

It always worries me when you dip your lights for an oncoming car at night,and all of a sudden you are driving/riding blind at speed.
That's one of the things I hate about night riding/driving. You go from good visibility (if you have decent headlights) to crap visibility even on the straight - one moment you can see a fair way up the road then a vehicle rounds a corner up the road a way, you dip your lights and suddenly you can't see far at all and there's a sea of darkness between your pool of light and the distant car. You can't increase your viewing distance until the bugger has passed by (and 9 times out of 10 he's doing 90km/h and so has thirty cars up his arse, none of whom can pass him while you're on the road, so you've got to tootle along on dip until they're all gone.)

Add to this corners, rain on your visor and on the road and the glare of oncoming lights and your visibility is severely compromised.

[Ixion]

CArdboard boxes don't count unless Mr Kickaha is living in it.

Though, seriously, that is the point that Mr Motu made. He was (is) concerned that he was not able to avoid colliding with it. And , very sensibly, reviews his driving technique and practice in light of the discovered weakness. It is thus that we learn.And , no matter how much experience we have, we keep learning, there is always a new gotcha lurking in wait.

[Motu]

Isn't it Motu and Ixion that always tell us that ALL accidents are avoidable?


See first post...second line....

[Ixion]

That's one of the things I hate about night riding/driving. You go from good visibility (if you have decent headlights) to crap visibility even on the straight - one moment you can see a fair way up the road then a vehicle rounds a corner up the road a way, you dip your lights and suddenly you can't see far at all and there's a sea of darkness between your pool of light and the distant car.,,.

Von Klunken has a 100 watt dipped beam and an (illegal) driving light set up as an auxiliary dipped beam (only illegal because it is not actually a dipped beam lamp, the light pattern is wrong, but I have it angled into the side of the road , and downwards). So I have 200 wats of low beam. If I could source some suitable dual filiment units I would do what Mr Motu has done. So even on dip it is not bad. And I tend to hold off dipping if the oncoming vehicle is far off, you will not dazzle him until he is closer.

[Pixie]

Not much chance of a kid being in it considering where it was - but that's the sort of asumption that ends up in things going wrong in a big way.Maybe I recalled Marty's case subconciously.

What concerns me is why I didn't see it until it was too late - my lights are excellent even on dip,230 watts should be enough.I'd like to think I'm not outdriving my lights,so one night when no one is around I might do a panic stop from 100kph at max range on dip.It always worries me when you dip your lights for an oncoming car at night,and all of a sudden you are driving/riding blind at speed.Maybe our two opposing beams somehow cannelled it out,hidding it from view.I think I also look somewhere else with an approaching vehicle at night,as you are supposed to - so I either look to the side of the road,or even further ahead past my headlight beams.As always,a series of events leading up to a potential problem....there is usualy never only one factor involved.

If I was in the van I've been using the last couple of weeks or in a car,the box might of gone underneath and made me lose control - makes me feel better about using the Pajero,ready for any situation....except going fast.
The visual system is very complex.It could be that you didn't see it because you weren't looking for boxes.

In a famous experiment,an audience was asked to count how many passes were made at a basketball practice.
At a point in the game, a man in a gorilla suit walked through the group of athletes,stopped, danced a gig, and walked off.
Only something like 30% of the audience saw the gorilla and the ones that didn't, would not believe the researchers until they were shown video tape of the gorilla on the court.

[The_Dover]

I don't really want to give the wise old buggers shit, I do have a modicum of respect, but did you edit that post since I first read it??

[Wolf]

Von Klunken has a 100 watt dipped beam and an (illegal) driving light set up as an auxiliary dipped beam (only illegal because it is not actually a dipped beam lamp, the light pattern is wrong, but I have it angled into the side of the road , and downwards). So I have 200 wats of low beam. If I could source some suitable dual filiment units I would do what Mr Motu has done. So even on dip it is not bad. And I tend to hold off dipping if the oncoming vehicle is far off, you will not dazzle him until he is closer.
Trouble is not the amount of light, per se, but where it's aimed. You go from having your headlamp light up enough road for you to stop safely to it lighting up a tiny patch of road in which you cannot stop from the speed you're doing.

How many drivers/riders actually drop speed when switching to dipped lights?

[Motu]

The visual system is very complex.It could be that you didn't see it because you weren't looking for boxes.


I don't think so - I just plain wasn't looking in the right place when I needed to.As the car came close I shifted my gaze out of the area directly ahead...to save my night vision for when he went past,only a matter of a second.We do it all the time - check mirrors,look to the sides,check speedos,temp gauges,all the things we need to do to control a car or bike.Just that 1 in a 100,000 chance when something moved into the area of inattention,my fortune it was only a bloody big empty cardboard box.We make our own luck - I'm just happy that whoever is in control of these things just happened to be out of cows that night....

[sunhuntin]

Trouble is not the amount of light, per se, but where it's aimed. You go from having your headlamp light up enough road for you to stop safely to it lighting up a tiny patch of road in which you cannot stop from the speed you're doing.

How many drivers/riders actually drop speed when switching to dipped lights?

i do....because i cant see and am scared shitless of making the wrong move and plowing into either the car or a fence [fixation] i slow to a virtual crawl...if looks could kill, the cagers that get stuck behind me would have me 6 feet under 100 times by now. i hate night riding in the country and avoid it when i can....in town its fine cos theres street lights to combat it.

[Motu]

I did my brake test tonight - seeing something just appearing in my dipped beam (I used some roadworks) soon as I saw the line of gravel appear I hit the brakes.I can stop easily within the range of my dipped beam.Unless this box dropped out of the sky (it did,it did!!) obviously I was just not looking at the right spot at the right time.Wake up call take on board....

[Wolf]

(it did,it did!!)
I'm trying hard not to hoot out loud and wake my daughter.

I'll have to try a similar test with my bike and reassure myself that I can stop within the range of my dipped lights (or give myself fair warning that I can't and I should slow down when dipping my lights).

I think I might use a marker on the side of the road as a trigger, rather than risk ploughing into some gravel with my front brake on hard...

[Macktheknife]

I did my brake test tonight - seeing something just appearing in my dipped beam (I used some roadworks) soon as I saw the line of gravel appear I hit the brakes.I can stop easily within the range of my dipped beam.Unless this box dropped out of the sky (it did,it did!!) obviously I was just not looking at the right spot at the right time.Wake up call take on board....
Damn Motu, if this can happen to you the rest of us are pretty screwed huh? Glad the box was empty anyway, no harm done but important potential weakness spotted.
Any chance the other vehicle pushed it into your lane? wind blowing strong? any other confounding factors that you didnt mention?
I was in a friends 4x4 years ago when he came around a corner and smashed straight into a TV set at 110kmh! BIG old and heavy it did an almighty amount of damage to the 4x4 and nearly caused the next person coming around corner to slam into us too. Very scary. If that had been on a bike we would likely have died.

[Motu]

After the disection - what I think we can take from this is....when vehicles cross,for whatever reason (occult forces,or subconsious minds matching speeds) very often they pass at a hazzard.So when approaching an oncoming vehicle at night on a lonely road,take extra care at the crossover,it's very possible there could be a hazzard hidden in the dazzle.

[SPman]

CArdboard boxes don't count unless Mr Kickaha is living in it.

No chance - 'e was evicted from 'is cardboard box.........