Why do young guys buy cars????

[JimO]

i have 14 year ild twins that are thinking about getting their licence next year one wants a bike the other wants a car look at the difference in prices a mid 90s jappa car around a grand, a mid 90s 250 cc bike $3000 to $5500. i say no wonder the biggest influx of motorcyclists is the older guy getting back into bikes, the money outlay is stopping most young fullas

[sAsLEX]

but then again a gn250 a few years old is only a couple of k!

Another factor is those annoying parents, I was never allowed to ride at home even though dad had a bike I could of used , my first car cost $150!

[Maha]

Maybe jimjim can help the twintwin into a bike?......$$$$$
I see your point, but i always thought to myself that, you can get alot of bike for, not alot of money, $1k-$2 car and you get a shitter, not always, more often than not. Same with boats, you get alot of yatch for little outlay, put that same money into a power boat and you end up with a reasonable dinghy.

[gamgee]

it wouldn't be the shitty weather that putting one of them off bikes would it? I mean we are in dunedin after all, I'm 20 and lucky to have both a cage and a bike, I ride the bike in pretty much any weather, but the cage is useful when i need to carry stuff or if it's pissing down with rain snowing hailing, etc.

[gamgee]

but if you can afford it, encourage them to get both car and bike licences it'll save them a lot of time if they change there mind latter in life

[Kendog]

You have a good point Jimjim. On the flipside though, for 11 grand I bought a brand new 900 bike as aposed to a commodore or similar that I would have to fork out 50 odd k for brand new. Know what I would rather have too!! Yes, I agree that the prices of second-hand bikes is somewhat unreasonable, especially when compared to cars, it is almost better sense to buy a new bike if you can. Good luck with those boys too!!
Mrs KD.

[avgas]

I had an interesting road to get to bike riding. But i kinda see the point of what most parents believe. Its alot cheaper to buy a kid a car rather than peel him and his motorbike off the road.
As for the whole price thing - bullshit, my ts185 cos $600 all road reg'd. The $3K + cbrs etc can wait untill they understand how hard the road is. Your only gonna have to fork out $$$'s for repairs otherwise.

[sAsLEX]

The $3K + cbrs etc can wait untill they understand how hard the road is. Your only gonna have to fork out $$$'s for repairs otherwise.

Dont agree with you here. If you aint a dumbass there is no reason why you have to bin! Manage your risks appropriatly and dont go riding like Rossi two days after getting the bike and I see no reason to crash, I know I didnt on my 5.5k first bike, and I aint too slow.....

Now I aint saying I aint never going to crash that riding intelligently far reduces the chances of that happening.



The other big cost most dont factor in is gear, but with great fantastic good looking suppliers like that hunchbach quasimoto.co.nz then its a little easier in theat respect!

[Hawkeye]

I've got a 14 year old who thinks that he will go straight to bikes. As a parent who has driven cars all his life and only recently moved into bikes, there is no way I am going to allow him to do that.
My perpective is that until he learns road sense and has the ability to recognise the basics, such as cages changing lanes without indication, I want him in a car where the early mistakes are not punished by a hospital visit.
Yes he will end up on bikes and I will fully support him (unlike my parents when I was his age). But I do feel that he needs to learn to read the dangers of the raod in a safer environment, where he has some sort of protection, before venturing out on a bike.
I'm sure there are a lot of parents out there that feel the same way.

[thehollowmen]

Licensing factor is a big one too. It takes forever to be allowed to go at a better speed on the motorcycle.

[Sketchy_Racer]

I've got a 14 year old who thinks that he will go straight to bikes. As a parent who has driven cars all his life and only recently moved into bikes, there is no way I am going to allow him to do that.
My perpective is that until he learns road sense and has the ability to recognise the basics, such as cages changing lanes without indication, I want him in a car where the early mistakes are not punished by a hospital visit.
Yes he will end up on bikes and I will fully support him (unlike my parents when I was his age). But I do feel that he needs to learn to read the dangers of the raod in a safer environment, where he has some sort of protection, before venturing out on a bike.
I'm sure there are a lot of parents out there that feel the same way.
Yep thats how it was for me.

I had to have my restricted car licence before i was allowed to get my bike licence.

At the time i thought my parents were being control freaks. But in hind sight, it is a really smart mov.

[avgas]

Manage your risks appropriatly and dont go riding like Rossi two days after getting the bike and I see no reason to crash, I know I didnt on my 5.5k first bike, and I aint too slow.....

We are talking about a 14 year old kid? They dont know what happens in a crash at 50kph....let alone 70. They cannot manage risks untill they understand the conseqeunce

[gamgee]

I still don't know what happens in a car crash, or a bike crash :nya:

[Ixion]

I quite agree with Mr Jimjim about the absurd cost of entry level motorcycling. We should all be concerned about this, anything that inhibits entry of young blood into the community is a bd thing. We need those young folk, motorcycling must not become a preserve of old crusties.

This is a complete change round to what things were when I started riding. Then, almost all young lads started out on bikes - cars were far far beyond our pockets. Though the point is well made, that it it not at all necessary to start with a $3k CBR - and unwise in many other ways.

It is not just the inital purchase price that has slanted in favour of cars. Rego for a bike used to be far less than a car. And cheap petrol in recent years favours cars.And the cost of the magic gear now deemed so essential totally reverses the economics. When I started, I got a Corker SkidLid thrown in with my first bike, so I was better equipped than any of my mates. Our normal wardrobes supplied the rest . Now, the magic gear can cost a beginner more than the total price of a decent car, even before buying the bike!

I also very strongly believe that it is far better and safer for youngsters to start on bikes BEFORE learning to drive a car. A car driver learning to ride is very dangerous. A learner in a car acquires so many bad or careless habits. In a car they get away with it. Then when they come to learn to ride they take those habits across and come to grief. Conversely , a motorcyclist learning to drive a cage will be one of the safest drivers on the road.

The Precious Lamb syndrome has a lot to answer for.

I think one of the things we as a community should be doing, through BRONZ and such groups, is pressing for a change to the licencing rules to allow a small motorcycle licence (< 125cc) at 14, whilst putting the age for a car learner licence up to at least 16.

But , in the end, the factor that will always incline young men toward cars instead of bikes, is the same one it always has been. Lack of a rear seat. Young blood runs hot.

[Maha]

I still don't know what happens in a car crash, or a bike crash :nya:
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh me either, dont tempt fate....:psst:

[Al]

Maybe the reason youngsters want a car instead of a bike is because with a car your mates can ride with you...?
With the problem of trying to impress your mates and trying to impress the "chicks", a GN 250 will just not cut it for some youngsters. Peer pressure and vanity and trying to be "cool" is such an issue nowdays.

Take care

Al

[Kendog]

I've got a 14 year old who thinks that he will go straight to bikes. As a parent who has driven cars all his life and only recently moved into bikes, there is no way I am going to allow him to do that.
My perpective is that until he learns road sense and has the ability to recognise the basics, such as cages changing lanes without indication, I want him in a car where the early mistakes are not punished by a hospital visit.
Yes he will end up on bikes and I will fully support him (unlike my parents when I was his age). But I do feel that he needs to learn to read the dangers of the raod in a safer environment, where he has some sort of protection, before venturing out on a bike.
I'm sure there are a lot of parents out there that feel the same way.

I'm not a parent and I totally agree with you. Can imagine the power of a little 250 race bike going straight to a 'bullet-proof' teenagers head!!

[sAsLEX]

Licensing factor is a big one too. It takes forever to be allowed to go at a better speed on the motorcycle.

180 out the door if not more, hard to find an entry level cage that would do that

[Kendog]

Why not start them out on a scooter each? Cheap, cheap, cheap. That way they learn a bit about looking out for hazards, and what it's like to be a person on the road without any cage protection, so when they drive the car they have the awareness of a biker (like what Ixion was getting at) but without the power and speed that would have you worrying everytime they put a helmet on. Then they can move onto a car or a 250, which ever they feel more comfortable with. At the end of the day, if you are paying, you get to choose, if they are paying, well.......

[Beemer]

Maybe the reason youngsters want a car instead of a bike is because with a car your mates can ride with you...?Al

My thoughts exactly. The kind of person who rides a bike isn't necessarily worried about what his/her mates think, but if you have a car, you have to impress your mates or else!

The main reason most young guys would prefer a car over a bike is because they can usually fit in at least four or five of their mates - not to mention chicks - and if they take a girl out on a date, there's that nice back seat! A lot of young girls aren't into bikes because you can't get all glammed up to go out - the helmet would put paid to that in an instant!

[gamgee]

some of the points raised are just stupid, like comparing the price of a 1990 CBR250RR (about $4000-$6000) to the price of a 1990 Toyota corolla (about $1500)
it's just a total mismatch, a fairer comparison would be:
A CBR250RR about 4-6k and a Mazda Familia GTX (turbo) about 4-6k
both can be ridden/driven on the respective learners licence and both in most cases are not an ideal vehicle for a learner to be in control of
and then the low price
90 toyota corolla about $1500 and either gn250 or sr250 (1990 models) about $1500
both are not super quick, better for learners and not as appealing
Getting into biking can be as affordable as you want to make it, and complaining about the price of the 250 sportsbikes, and making that the reason for not getting into biking, would be like a cager blaming the cost of a subaru WRX as being the reason they haven't got a car licence

[avgas]

I not nessicairly saying that you should learn to drive before you ride. But i now understand why parents are so paranoid to letting kids do it the other way.
I feel that why the law is strong and overpowering in some points. It lacks in the training of first time riders.
After 10 mins or riding around a carpark at speeds below 30kph (on a 10hp or lower bike), i could ride a 250cc (20hp+) bike at speeds up to 70kph, with no restricter to keep me at that speed.
While i was all for kids being allowed to have free roam, i now understand that their was things in my past that allowed me to have the skills i had when i went for my licence.
- I was able to ride off road before my licence
- I had the opportunity to ride in a quiet town after my licence
- I had learnt to drive off road before my licence
- I had all the riding gear before i sat my licence (due to being a pillion)
- I understood what happens in a crash due to racing in a demo derby
- I had very good balance due to mountainbike racing
I know that if i had failed on any of these fronts when i had my ts,rz or my rg (learner period), i would have become a road side cross because i was young and reckless.
I realise that you do no need all these skills to survive on a bike, but with New Zealand and its current record with the road - its is to dangerous to allow kids to assume they 'know it all' when we give them their learners motorbike licence.

[iwilde]

some of the points raised are just stupid, like comparing the price of a 1990 CBR250RR (about $4000-$6000) to the price of a 1990 Toyota corolla (about $1500)
it's just a total mismatch, a fairer comparison would be:
A CBR250RR about 4-6k and a Mazda Familia GTX (turbo) about 4-6k
both can be ridden/driven on the respective learners licence and both in most cases are not an ideal vehicle for a learner to be in control of
and then the low price
90 toyota corolla about $1500 and either gn250 or sr250 (1990 models) about $1500
both are not super quick, better for learners and not as appealing
Getting into biking can be as affordable as you want to make it, and complaining about the price of the 250 sportsbikes, and making that the reason for not getting into biking, would be like a cager blaming the cost of a subaru WRX as being the reason they haven't got a car licence

Theirs still the matter of buying the helmet, boots, gloves, jacket and pants. Thats a nesessary cost to me, but how does a 15yr old see it? Helmet because you have to and maybe gloves to keep your hands warm. Educating our young to be responsible adults doesn't always work, especialy when they get around the corner and see a chick standing at the bus stop, either a burnout or a wheelie is going to happen.

[gamgee]

well they will be saving a lot on petrol, and ya can always pick up cheap gear on trademe, not everyone needs the lattest and great jacket with hyperspacetechmanology for decreased wind resistance etc

[chickenfunkstar]

I've got a 14 year old who thinks that he will go straight to bikes. As a parent who has driven cars all his life and only recently moved into bikes, there is no way I am going to allow him to do that.
My perpective is that until he learns road sense and has the ability to recognise the basics, such as cages changing lanes without indication, I want him in a car where the early mistakes are not punished by a hospital visit.
Yes he will end up on bikes and I will fully support him (unlike my parents when I was his age). But I do feel that he needs to learn to read the dangers of the raod in a safer environment, where he has some sort of protection, before venturing out on a bike.
I'm sure there are a lot of parents out there that feel the same way.

Thats been my advise to friends who are thinking about getting a bike when they have no road experience at all as well.
Simple mistakes like clipping a curb or running over a pothole have far more severe consequences on a bike than on a car. On a bike you can often be too hot, too cold / wet and have very limited vison because of the rain. This isn't really a good environment for someone who's still learning how traffic flows, how to identify and deal with hazards etc. I'd suggest that a would be biker spends at least a couple of months in a car untill they can interact and deal with other traffic without having to think.

[gamgee]

I'd suggest that a would be biker spends at least a couple of months in a car untill they can interact and deal with other traffic without having to think.
I'm sorry what??? on a bike you have to be constantly thinking and analyzing situations 100% of the time, you can't just lapse into that state of driving where everything is rushing merrily past and nothing bad is going to happen, thats when they jump out and get ya

[Motu]

And young people these days expect so much - I expected nothing from life.I was very thankful to my mother (but never told her,oh no,don't make your mother proud) for buying my first bike - $60 was a lot of money for a solo mum working full time in a mans job.I had to pay her back of course,which left me $3 to do all the things a 16 yr old needs to do - which was sweet stuff all...hamburgers,a movie,motorcycle magazines,it was a pretty small world for me.

My daughter were pretty lucky (although a young lad might not think so) as I have vehicles lying around and can pick them up pretty cheap.So my elder daughter had a MkII Escort staion wagon,which she thought was cool as she is a retro girl.My younger daughter had a Lada Samara,which she thought was cool because it was sooooo uncool! I don't know what will happen with my boys as when they are up to driving age I won't have this business....but I'll still be picking up cheap cars.

Bikes need to be the cheapest thing a kid can get into...and they need to lower their sights and accept uncool as what you start out with .And I agree with Ixions precious lamb syndrom - grow up you parents...and let your kids grow up too without your interference.

[Mr. Peanut]

14 is too young for anything, so is 15. When he turns 16, start him on a bike. :yes:

I started on bikes. It wasn't dangerous. I'm a far better driver for it.

[Ixion]

I don't agree about the 14 year old thing.

Manifestly, 14 year olds can control a motorbike, cos lots of them do so in off road events.

As to traffic, that is no different to a push bike, and until Precious Lamb almost all young guys had been riding pushies on the roads for years by the age of 14.

And, at 14 kids are still much more under parental control. Telling a 17 year what to do is not easy, a 14 year old is much less independant.And much more willing to accept advice from Dad .

And if the machine be restricted to <15 the speed issue does not come into it.

[chickenfunkstar]

I'm sorry what??? on a bike you have to be constantly thinking and analyzing situations 100% of the time, you can't just lapse into that state of driving where everything is rushing merrily past and nothing bad is going to happen, thats when they jump out and get ya

I agree, but I think its a good idea to be able to deal with things like give way rules, road signs etc without having to think about it. Its also a good idea to know the signs that are someone is about pull out, traffic is about to come to a stop.

However the more riding I do, the easier I find it to analyse situations, identify hazards and react to them subconciously. I'd even suggest its better to do things that way. There's no emotion involved that way. Car pulles out infront of me, I subconciously choose the best way to get around it and carry on with my jorney as if nothing had happened. There's no getting angry or frustrated which can lead to innattention and accident causing mistakes.

[Ixion]

I agree, but I think its a good idea to be able to deal with things like give way rules, road signs etc without having to think about it. Its also a good idea to know the signs that are someone is about pull out, traffic is about to come to a stop.

,,.

Presumably, these are well known long before any question of a licence, as a result of push bike experience? Or have they stopped teaching the Road Code at schools now?

[inlinefour]

And young people these days expect so much - I expected nothing from life.

However I also believe that the kids these days are a product of the way society is heading. They want so much because to a large extent they have learnt its how the get what they want. Many of us older generation had to buy what it was we wanted growing up, so we went out and earnt the money to get what we wanted. These days we have the "I want it" generations with the parents who must be either too busy or unable to manage the behaviour?
As for teenagers wanting a car rather than a bike? The only reason I can see that happening is because of the boy ricer attitude. Many think its not cool enough to have a bike, or have a g/f who won't hop on the back of a bike? BTW, I find it really bemusing that there are others who have posted on this thread how they will not allow their kids to ride a bike, yet ride themselves. Are you people that much an inadequate parent that you are unabe to teach your kids how to safely ride a bike. Or are you like so many parents, so busy within your own lives that there is very little time for your children. My boy is just starting to get into bikes at a younger age that I did. I'm thoughroughly enjoying the task of teaching him to ride. Also I'm teaching him the dangers of motorcycles, which is having the end result of him being much more carefull and thinking alot more about what hes doing, which is great to see. I'm not interested in wrapping my kids in cotton wool and they will learn that there is such a thing as failure. Also if they want something, they are not just going to be able to ask or demand it and just recieve. Nothing wrong with the youth of today riding bikes, provided they are taught well. The ony problem with them riding bikes I see is actually in the heads of their parents. Yea they will come off, but not that many people who have ridden bikes don't eh.:scooter:

[Mr. Peanut]

I don't agree about the 14 year old thing.

Manifestly, 14 year olds can control a motorbike, cos lots of them do so in off road events.

As to traffic, that is no different to a push bike, and until Precious Lamb almost all young guys had been riding pushies on the roads for years by the age of 14.

And, at 14 kids are still much more under parental control. Telling a 17 year what to do is not easy, a 14 year old is much less independant.And much more willing to accept advice from Dad .

And if the machine be restricted to <15 the speed issue does not come into it.

Being less removed from a 14 year olds mind :nya: I don't think I had the maturity to deal with 'difficult' traffic situations.

Skilled enough though they may be, some things cannot be taught.

A great deal depends on the individual, as with most other things.

[Ixion]

But I still HAVE a 14 year old's mind! I've repeated been told so.

Usually accompanied by "bloody young idiot". Until I remove the crash helmet :nya:

(One the other day still has me wondering -"You're a bloody young idiot, you silly old fool" ) :blip:

[JimO]

thanks for the input guys someone said in a post to compare a cbr250rr with a mazda turbo etc but a first time driver wouldnt have one of eitherhave a look on tardme and see what you get for 1500 as a road bike compared with the same money in a car. Why can you buy a cbr600 for the same money that cbr250 sell for, i know its supply and demand but if the size limit dropped from 250 to 150 you wouldnt be able to give 250s away

[inlinefour]

But I still HAVE a 14 year old's mind! I've repeated been told so.

Usually accompanied by "bloody young idiot". Until I remove the crash helmet :nya:

(One the other day still has me wondering -"You're a bloody young idiot, you silly old fool" ) :blip:

I get told the same thing also. I pulled into the carpark yesterday on the street magic. Admittingly I was not going that slow and scraped the stand as I leant it over, which really is not that difficult to do. 4 nurses were out in the carpark smoking (and they say riding is bad for my friggin health????) and was commenting about the kids using the hospital grounds as a race track and other derogitory things about the youf of today. They where quite surprised when I parked it next to them, almost doing a stoppie in the process (thought I had better not as Im a senior there and "have to set a good example"...). Their attitude apparently immediately changed as I took my helmet off and they admitted what they had been saying. We are not silly old fools. We just like to enjoy life much like the youf of today. Rather than live a mundane boring life that has very little excitement, maybe apart from sneaking outside to the carpark to have a smoke...:gob:

[Mr. Peanut]

YOU'RE 34??

I thought you were 20 something.... :innocent:

[chickenfunkstar]

Presumably, these are well known long before any question of a licence, as a result of push bike experience? Or have they stopped teaching the Road Code at schools now?

Of course the theory should be known, but it can take a bit of practice to apply this to the real world. The generally accepted give way rules can also be different to the ones written in the road code. At the junction between old north road and SH16, cars coming from the stop sign opposite old north road wanting to turn right onto SH16 hardly ever give way to a car wanting to turn left from old north road onto SH16, even though its a stop sign vs give way situation.

On a push bike I tend to give way to everyone.

[Ixion]

True, and very wise, respectively. And our hypothetical 14 year old will also have learned this lesson as a result of his (her) pushie experience. And hopefully, import such prudence and caution into his (her) motorcycling. The difference between a push bike and a small motorbike is not that great.

[GR81]

you cant take ya mates around on a bike easily.
get both! :D

[inlinefour]

you cant take ya mates around on a bike easily.
get both! :D

Tell the bums to go and get their own bike!:nya:

[NinjaBoy]

I've got a 14 year old who thinks that he will go straight to bikes. As a parent who has driven cars all his life and only recently moved into bikes, there is no way I am going to allow him to do that.
My perpective is that until he learns road sense and has the ability to recognise the basics, such as cages changing lanes without indication, I want him in a car where the early mistakes are not punished by a hospital visit.
Yes he will end up on bikes and I will fully support him (unlike my parents when I was his age). But I do feel that he needs to learn to read the dangers of the raod in a safer environment, where he has some sort of protection, before venturing out on a bike.
I'm sure there are a lot of parents out there that feel the same way.

I have to agree. Learning road sense is key to surviving our roads on a bike. Yeah everyone complains about Cage drivers who can't drive etc.... but its up to you to anticipate other drivers and look out for hazards. On a bike you have next to zero margin for error while make the same mistake in a car, you'll probably live to see another day.

Having been driving and riding for more than a couple of decades (now I feel old), I won't be letting my kids go to bikes until they have had a few years of driving under their belt.

[yungatart]

hXc got his bike licence three days after he turned 15, with our blessings. When he first mentioned that he would like a bike as opposed to a car, I was pretty much against it, for all the usual reasons... blah, blah. However, he pointed out several things in a bikes favour... not subject to peer pressure to take passengers outside of licence conditions, (no spare helmet on the bike), independent travel - on a car learners you need a licenced driver beside you, wouldn't develop the nasty habits of some car drivers, and having ridden a pushbike here, there and everywhere for the last umpteen years, he was already attuned to cagers not seeing him, not giving way to him etc. Plus he had ridden on a mates farm and had done some bucket racing and a lap or two on the Taupo track, well, I was convinced. He already had most of the gear he needed, bought secondhand, of course. I'm glad he chose a bike, now when he has to go off to some practice or other, I can stay home in the warm. I'm sure the back seat of cars is of particulart attraction to young guys with g/f in tow.. I can just hear the conversation,"Ah Mum, me and
(insert g/f's name here) just wanna get a bit of action in the back seat... do you mind waiting outside the car for the next few minutes... oh, and don't look!" Yeah Right!

[gamgee]

thanks for the input guys someone said in a post to compare a cbr250rr with a mazda turbo etc but a first time driver wouldnt have one of eitherhave a look on tardme and see what you get for 1500 as a road bike compared with the same money in a car. Why can you buy a cbr600 for the same money that cbr250 sell for, i know its supply and demand but if the size limit dropped from 250 to 150 you wouldnt be able to give 250s away

well you were the one moaning about $3000-$5500 bikes being too expensive, if you actually read my post you'd understand what i was saying, you can't compare a sports bike which is what you'd be getting in that price range with a slow old car that you'd get for $1000, but you can compare it with the likes of a gn250 which you would get for around $1000, don't know how to explain it any better, maybe:
$3000-$5500 = shiny sports bike
$1000 = a car that does the job
$1000 = a bike that does the job
get the idea?

[petesmeats]

Ok For starters... there is never going to be a hard and fast rule about this...
I think that it depends a lot on the situation... some 14 year olds just couldnt be trusted with a bike while others can...

I started when i was 15 but only on a GN250 that i bought for 270 bucks and got rego'd and warranted myself... (Good learning experience for a youngster)
On my learners i was only allowed around town (in 50-70k zones only)
I learnt a lot of my lessons about other motorists and other dangers on the road at low speeds.
Then i got my restricted and my parents loosened up a little bit more... Let me ride To the next town (10-15 mins away) to see mates... but no further than that. Then i got my bike stolen so was forced to get my car liscence (for lack of money to replace...)
When i got my car licence i already had a fairly high level of awareness when on the road due to my riding... My mates always hated taking me places because they thought that i looked everywhere too much....

I think that this was a good way for me to be introduced to NZ Roads...


I quite agree with Mr Jimjim about the absurd cost of entry level motorcycling.

But , in the end, the factor that will always incline young men toward cars instead of bikes, is the same one it always has been. Lack of a rear seat. Young blood runs hot.

Yeah sure the bike has no back seat but it still pulls the girls... Just not the ones with diseases like cars do...

Basically, some people have weird ideas about what entry level motorcycling is.... In my mind entry level is on a $3-500 18-20yo GN or SR... Not on a 5yo ZXR250.... And as for the gear... i picked up a helmet from big boys toys in porirua for $140 which doesnt exactly break the bank.

When i become a parent and my kids decide that they want to ride... i will be all for it but will restrict thier highway time to start with... and will encourage them to get their car liscences as well. I think that i would help them out with getting decent gear because adequate gear is key to riding.... (I havnt always had adequate gear and it is really dangerous)

As for starting on a scooter (KENDOG) ... DON'T DO IT... They may as well get a GN or a SR for a third the price and learn about gears and clutches and all that... Also i think that people that drive scooters do not wear enough safety gear...

I Also agree with Gamgee... Compare carrots with carrots and apples with apples and it works out to be similar...

As for whether they are better off on a bike or in a car first up... I think that kids should be exposed to it before they can legally take to the roads... Even just letting your kid drive from the front gate at the tip to the tip face is enough to show them the basics.... Ideally though: Off road riding... I would like to think that its better for kids to start on bikes purely for the fact that i am also on the road and if a kid has bad control of a car... HE/SHE COULD KILL ME>>>

[JimO]

well you were the one moaning about $3000-$5500 bikes being too expensive, if you actually read my post you'd understand what i was saying, you can't compare a sports bike which is what you'd be getting in that price range with a slow old car that you'd get for $1000, but you can compare it with the likes of a gn250 which you would get for around $1000, don't know how to explain it any better, maybe:
$3000-$5500 = shiny sports bike
$1000 = a car that does the job
$1000 = a bike that does the job
get the idea?
do a search on tardme gamgee and see what you can get in the way of a bike for a grand either a gn or not but i have a dozen cars at least for the same coinim not moaning that bikes are to expensive (except any 250 and then only because of licence restrictions) and i havnt found a gn for a grand either .........get the idea

[JimO]

I have found a gn the bidding is at 800 ......see what they want for it eh:blip:

[gamgee]

there was an alright looking sr250 (actually damn good looking) for a little over a grand I think it was about $1200 or so, and in dunedin, the other week, you just have to be patient

[IronicCapers]

Well im an 18year old whos happens to want a road bike like theres no other thing that deserves attention. I got a car (hate it most days) i really want athe road bike and after years on the dirt bike and years driving a car(prelicense:innocent: ). The fact that i have to spend $100 on basic handling, $80 on the license itself and then $1000 on safety gear(and thats jus for some of it) then another at least 3k for a good bike that has little or no problems. I find it incredibly hard to get that bike im a good person(so im told) so why are there so many hoops to jump through and my car is worth just less than a 1k after a wax.
Solve the traffic problem get on bikes. Solve the fatality problem put on more taxes and fines.
Although im more aware of the road after nudging a BMW while waving to a mate and looking in my two available mirrors while changing lanes(left one nudged off). Lets go back to the old days when you got both licenses at once or at least reduce the price when you get two or more at the same time.

BTW where is my bike??? Ive got the gear(some of it) an old tyre but the rest aint arrived yet. Better ask the parents i guess caus im not paid enough to save enough because the gas is to high for anyone to save(on low incomes), so plainly put unless i get more than 3 jobs i wont get far enough to reach the end of the driveway(bastards) and thats because i work harder than people older than me but i dont have there experience even though i could do anything put in front of me.

Whos next to do a bit of Bitching?

[gamgee]

Well im an 18year old whos happens to want a road bike like theres no other thing that deserves attention. I got a car (hate it most days) i really want athe road bike and after years on the dirt bike and years driving a car(prelicense:innocent: ). The fact that i have to spend $100 on basic handling, $80 on the license itself and then $1000 on safety gear(and thats jus for some of it) then another at least 3k for a good bike that has little or no problems. I find it incredibly hard to get that bike im a good person(so im told) so why are there so many hoops to jump through and my car is worth just less than a 1k after a wax.
Solve the traffic problem get on bikes. Solve the fatality problem put on more taxes and fines.
Although im more aware of the road after nudging a BMW while waving to a mate and looking in my two available mirrors while changing lanes(left one nudged off). Lets go back to the old days when you got both licenses at once or at least reduce the price when you get two or more at the same time.



ok lets get one thing straight, and it's about the third time i've said it, you don't have to buy a sports bike, you just want to, you could quite easily get into biking if you were willing to accept a cheaper alternative as you obviously were with your car

[DEATH_INC.]

I've got a 14 year old who thinks that he will go straight to bikes. As a parent who has driven cars all his life and only recently moved into bikes, there is no way I am going to allow him to do that.
My perpective is that until he learns road sense and has the ability to recognise the basics, such as cages changing lanes without indication, I want him in a car where the early mistakes are not punished by a hospital visit.
Yes he will end up on bikes and I will fully support him (unlike my parents when I was his age). But I do feel that he needs to learn to read the dangers of the raod in a safer environment, where he has some sort of protection, before venturing out on a bike.
I'm sure there are a lot of parents out there that feel the same way.
This is interesting......a lot here say everyone should be made to ride bikes before they get a car so they can learn road sense and respect before getting in that cage and trying to kill us......yet here we have a motorcycling parent who says the opposite.....
For the record, I rode bikes for about 5 years before getting my first car, and my brother has never had a car.

[thehollowmen]

Presumably, these are well known long before any question of a licence, as a result of push bike experience? Or have they stopped teaching the Road Code at schools now?

Yes they have.
I don't think any school in New Plymouth (where I grew up) had road code type classes.

[Ixion]

Gasrrgggh. Typical! One of the few useful things they taught in schools and they've dropped it!:brick:

That is so damn stupid.

and I suppose they don't have the cops come round any more, like they used to, and check the 11 and 12 year olds bike riding and Road Safety ? We used to have Road Safety classes.

See, there's a big difference. In my day, by fifteen, kids would have 4 or 5 years of roadcraft experience, and would have had a lot of input on Road code and safety from the police and parents and teachers.

[Hawkeye]

This is interesting......a lot here say everyone should be made to ride bikes before they get a car so they can learn road sense and respect before getting in that cage and trying to kill us......yet here we have a motorcycling parent who says the opposite.....
For the record, I rode bikes for about 5 years before getting my first car, and my brother has never had a car.


As a parent, I will always want to protect my kids.
My 16 year old is the one with the common sense. He is about to take his cage restricted because that is what he wanted to do. However. Had he wanted to get on a bike, I would have been quite happy to take him out.
My 14 year old is the one who thinks he is bullet proof and invincible. Until he realises the dangers, I will not let him near the bike.
If you have seen any of my earlier posts on other threads, you will see that the bike I currently use is already lined up for the 14 year old. I just want him to understand that there are nutters out there who are trying to kill you and you need to be able to pre-empt that.

You only need to look at the previous posts by IronicCapers and Gamgee.
(I'm not having an attack at you Ironic, just using this as an example)
Here is an 18 year old who appears to only want a 'rocket' sports bike as a first bike. As Gamgee has pointed out 3 times now, you do not need that kind of bike as a first.
I see so much of my 14 year old in some of the young kids posts on here and until he realises and accepts the dangers, I want him protected by a cage.

I not saying that there is one rule for everyone. My decisions are purely based on knowing my own kids.

[geoffm]

Another thing against bikes for youngsters - tried getting insurance recently? Bike insurance is bad enough anyway, and if you are a teenager, forget it.
Geoff

[Fub@r]

The fact that i have to spend $100 on basic handling, $80 on the license itself and then $1000 on safety gear(and thats jus for some of it)

You can get a full kit of safety gear for under $1000 new.

If your not a victim of fashion go to the Motomail Outlet shop in Western Springs. Its open Wednesday to Saturday. I picked up a full kit at nearly 50% off. Total cost was $750. The helmet I got for example had a $450 retail and I got it for $170

Basic skills test can be done for $65 (test only)

[pixc]

Im keeping my FXR150 when im done with it for th kids to learn on. Miss 13 year old has been out on numerous long rides with her grandad and cant wait. I prefer her to get her car license first. In a MANUAL car. There is no way I want my kids to learn how to drive in an automatic car. Think of all the laffs i would miss out on. IMHO a car is more forgiving if you forget a basic road rule and have an incident. 6 months in a car before getting bike license.
Miss 13yo is already lookin forward and works part time in a Kiwifruit packhouse. Boring job but she works 2 nights after school and all day sunday. She gets 150 in the hand. Its only a sesaonal thing but shes well on her way

[pixc]

I not saying that there is one rule for everyone. My decisions are purely based on knowing my own kids.

Oh that is sooo true.

[FilthyLuka]

I've got a 14 year old who thinks that he will go straight to bikes. As a parent who has driven cars all his life and only recently moved into bikes, there is no way I am going to allow him to do that.
My perpective is that until he learns road sense and has the ability to recognise the basics, such as cages changing lanes without indication, I want him in a car where the early mistakes are not punished by a hospital visit.
Yes he will end up on bikes and I will fully support him (unlike my parents when I was his age). But I do feel that he needs to learn to read the dangers of the raod in a safer environment, where he has some sort of protection, before venturing out on a bike.
I'm sure there are a lot of parents out there that feel the same way.

nope. ive had my lamma licence for a while now (both car and bike) and the first thing i did was buy a bike and ride it every chance i got (my first time on the road was on a bike). I found that a car doesnt teach you what traffic is. It teaches you how to drive. When riding a bike i took alot more care on the road and payed alot more attention to what was going on around me seeing as if i crashed then im F***ING DEAD! If your worried about your kid becoming a human pancake, fine give him a car. But if you want him to learn what traffic is and deal with it accordingly, let him ride from day dot. Again this is speaking from my personal experience and can change depending on the person in question...

[Hawkeye]

can change depending on the person in question...


Read my previous post.

[FilthyLuka]

My 14 year old is the one who thinks he is bullet proof and invincible. Until he realises the dangers, I will not let him near the bike.


WOOHOO! responisble parent :rockon:

good idea, but dont have a set time limit in a car before he can get a bike... the transition out of shitheadism can be long or short depending on the person... Untill you are comfortable with his state of mind and believe that he isnt going to be a valentino rossi wannabe on the road, dont give him a bike. You may be suprised at how a few close calls and speeding tickets change a kids view on driving, so therefore your boy (im asumming hes a dude) could lose his invinciblity in a matter of weeks, or on the other hand, he could take longer than six months to get out of his "bullet proof" mentality. This is for you too be the judge of.

jesus im happy i dont have kids.

NOW! off for some teenage tom foolery :doobey:

[inlinefour]

[QUOTE=Hawkeye]
My 14 year old is the one who thinks he is bullet proof and invincible. Until he realises the dangers, I will not let him near the bike.
[QUOTE]

Don't quite know what you consider parenting, but I get the feeling its not what I think. So are you telling me that your answer to the boy wanting to ride is to ban him completely? I don't know about your boy, but if it was me, I'd be telling you to go get FKed, no matter the consequences. I personally think that your answer is a complete cock out of your parenting responsibilities. I take it that since you are here on KB then you ride? Rather than teaching your boy how to be a responsible rider, you'd rather tell him he cannot ride at all? Does anyone else have an issue with this sort of issue or what? He might think hes bullet proof, but I doubt he is stupid. You choose an interesting way of loosing your child's respect for you. I had a draconic father also, who liked to tell me what I could and could not do, and then give the bash when I did it anyway. Last time I saw him it was not on good terms and I have not seen him since, nor wish to. Is this what you also want to achieve with your son? Might be a good time to put your parenting skills to good use? My boy is 6 years old at the moment. I am building him a 50cc rat trail bike, which is rather underpowered. I started my riding at 8 years old on an under powered 90cc step through. I will say this about my father, he knew I wanted to ride and never got in the way. Would have been a fatal mistake for him and I suspect he knew it. He put an effort in to teach me the basics of riding and handling. He also identified good back roads for me to practice and when I crapped off, he was responsible for getting me back on the bike to figure where I went wrong on that stretch of road. I'm thankfull of that as a couple of times I was ready to give up completely on riding. I was also lucky in the fact that he let me practice alot before getting my licience on the same back roads so that when it came time to do my licience the handling/riding bits was pretty easy. I went from a 100cc bike to a high preformance 250cc (RD250LC - fast in its day eh), but because of my teachings and previous experiences, I respected it and it took me along times to learn how to ride it to its limit. You actually have the opportunity to get to know your boy and mould him into a safe rider. However I wonder if your life is so busy and important that you'd rather not make time and just say "no", just like so many Playstation parents out there (PM me if you want that term explained). :kick:

[yungatart]

Inlinefour makes some good points, why not spend the time teaching your son that he is not bulletproof, spend some time riding around paddocks, etc and teach him how to ride with respect for himself, his machine and all the other road users out there. Get him a mentor.Get him into Buckets or motox. Our 15 yo got his BHS and HAD to ride with his dad. At the end of every ride came the debrief... you do this really well, but watch out for this, or improve on this etc
Maybe for some KB ers, they would have to change their riding style dramatically, so as not to pass on some very dangerous habits but surely for most of us it is just a matter of spending time in the saddle with our kids to be good role models

[FilthyLuka]

both the above posts make good points. However if my father said "you aint riding no bike" i would then promtly go and buy a bike. Teenagers are going to do, say and try stupid things (speaking from experience here) and its up to the parent to oversee said stupidity and stop anything fatal from happening. However, TEACHING is a good start to making your kid realise the dangers. If that doesnt work i have some nasty crash photos you can use :blip: ...

Denis

[Hawkeye]

I don't know about your boy, but if it was me, I'd be telling you to go get FKed, no matter the consequences. I personally think that your answer is a complete cock out of your parenting responsibilities.


I take it that since you are here on KB then you ride? I had a draconic father also,

Obviously, there are a number of people on here that only read one post and start judging. What I have actually said is I will only let him on the bike on the road when he realises that he isn't bullet proof. I have never said that he could not ride. My parents refused point blank to let me have a bike due to the dangers. I will not do the same to my kids. But I do reserve the right to protect my kids until I feel they are mature enough to understand the consequenses of thier actions. And that's not standing at the side of a hospital bed telling him I told you so after his first 'bullet proof' bin at speed.
15 year olds don't always make the right choices no matter how good a parent you are.
You do not know me or my kid's , but my kids do respect me and repect my wishes. They will not tell me 'as you say ' to get f%%ed' - so don't judge.

[Bonez]

But , in the end, the factor that will always incline young men toward cars instead of bikes, is the same one it always has been. Lack of a rear seat. Young blood runs hot.ahh brings back fond momories the old man's HQ Holden. I got my car licence at 15 and didn't get a full m/c licence till I was 20 odd.

[inlinefour]

Obviously, there are a number of people on here that only read one post and start judging. What I have actually said is I will only let him on the bike on the road when he realises that he isn't bullet proof. I have never said that he could not ride. My parents refused point blank to let me have a bike due to the dangers. I will not do the same to my kids. But I do reserve the right to protect my kids until I feel they are mature enough to understand the consequenses of thier actions. And that's not standing at the side of a hospital bed telling him I told you so after his first 'bullet proof' bin at speed.
15 year olds don't always make the right choices no matter how good a parent you are.
You do not know me or my kid's , but my kids do respect me and repect my wishes. They will not tell me 'as you say ' to get f%%ed' - so don't judge.

So what your saying is that you would rather wait "until I feel they are mature enough to understand the consequenses of thier actions". Instead of help teach them it? There is such a thing as nuturing kids and teaching them. Sadly this often is not happening and the quality of parenting is becoming poorer. Sounds like your actually wanting to do nothing but wait for him to grow? Hows he going to learn anything from that? Most likely outcome for him is that his kids will also go without input from their father when it could have mattered the most. Judge? You make these posts and then get upset when we post comments based on your original posts? You will get no political correctness from me, I live in the real world, as do many of us eh. :nya:

[Swoop]

Why do young guys buy cars???

Let me think....

[Filterer]

I think i have read through this whole thread and what I haven't seen mentioned is that if you learn in a car first you have someone beside you to guide you on how traffic flows works.

On a motorbike you are alone there is no one to anticipate your mistakes or tell you were you can improve...

I think thats a HUGE factor towards learning to drive a car first

I have driven cars for many years and during summer holidays I was driving 1000km + a week around auckland city and I think I know all the tricks in terms of recognising the danger signs and my reactions are automatic so all I have to concentrate on is learning to control the bike

Having said that though I never grew up with motorbikes so I guess if you grew up riding dirt bikes then thats slightly different

If my child wanted to ride a bike then im fine with that as long as there is someway that i can communicate with her in the learning phase.....

Either that be that she must learn in a car or with some sort of cb radio system but from what i understand they don't really work well unless you have a silent helmet and high quality radio gear (like $1000)

[Hawkeye]

I think i have read through this whole thread and what I haven't seen mentioned is that if you learn in a car first you have someone beside you to guide you on how traffic flows works.

On a motorbike you are alone there is no one to anticipate your mistakes or tell you were you can improve...

I think thats a HUGE factor towards learning to drive a car first

I have driven cars for many years and during summer holidays I was driving 1000km + a week around auckland city and I think I know all the tricks in terms of recognising the danger signs and my reactions are automatic so all I have to concentrate on is learning to control the bike

Having said that though I never grew up with motorbikes so I guess if you grew up riding dirt bikes then thats slightly different

If my child wanted to ride a bike then im fine with that as long as there is someway that i can communicate with her in the learning phase.....

Either that be that she must learn in a car or with some sort of cb radio system but from what i understand they don't really work well unless you have a silent helmet and high quality radio gear (like $1000)


My sentiments exactly

[Hawkeye]

So what your saying is that you would rather wait "until I feel they are mature enough to understand the consequenses of thier actions". Instead of help teach them it? There is such a thing as nuturing kids and teaching them. Sadly this often is not happening and the quality of parenting is becoming poorer. Sounds like your actually wanting to do nothing but wait for him to grow? Hows he going to learn anything from that? Most likely outcome for him is that his kids will also go without input from their father when it could have mattered the most. Judge? You make these posts and then get upset when we post comments based on your original posts? You will get no political correctness from me, I live in the real world, as do many of us eh. :nya:

I'm always open to a good debate - but your points were not a debate, they are judgemental. You appear to have a problem with your parenting between your father and yourself and are now putting me in that same pigeon hole.
I am actually looking forward to being able to go out riding with him. However, as I said, you do not know me and have obviously never read any of my previous posts. I can't even take him out as a pillion as I only started riding myself 5 months ago. I am still on a learners so do not have the skill set to teach him as I am still learning myself. I also only have one bike which makes it hard to take him out and supervise. Hence my reluctance to allow him out on the bike until he has at least been out and seen the dangers first hand where I can at least be beside him to point them out.

[inlinefour]

I'm always open to a good debate - but your points were not a debate, they are judgemental. You appear to have a problem with your parenting between your father and yourself and are now putting me in that same pigeon hole.
I am actually looking forward to being able to go out riding with him. However, as I said, you do not know me and have obviously never read any of my previous posts. I can't even take him out as a pillion as I only started riding myself 5 months ago. I am still on a learners so do not have the skill set to teach him as I am still learning myself. I also only have one bike which makes it hard to take him out and supervise. Hence my reluctance to allow him out on the bike until he has at least been out and seen the dangers first hand where I can at least be beside him to point them out.

I read the lot and are not putting you in any pigeon hole. You want to get all defensive, go for it. Pretty pathetic IMO and you still did not get the point...:whocares:

[Goblin]

Hence my reluctance to allow him out on the bike until he has at least been out and seen the dangers first hand where I can at least be beside him to point them out.

Has he never been a passenger in a car? Surely he must have seen the dangers first hand many times. Give the youngins some credit...they do learn more than you may think by just seeing what goes on when you are driving. By you being a learner rider yourself, wouldnt it be great to learn with your son? Imagine you both out on your own bikes, having good times with him instead of waiting for him to "mature". Give him a chance if he's keen.

[Hawkeye]

I read the lot and are not putting you in any pigeon hole. You want to get all defensive, go for it. Pretty pathetic IMO and you still did not get the point...:whocares:


I had a draconic father also, who liked to tell me what I could and could not do, and then give the bash when I did it anyway. Last time I saw him it was not on good terms and I have not seen him since, nor wish to.

If that is not pigeon holeing, what is?


I put my point of view, as have others. I do not have to defend myself to anyone. Everyone has their own views. Sometimes people agree, sometimes they don't. That's what makes the world go round. All I am saying is people should not judge others when they do not know them.

I hope you enjoy your time with your son. I know I enjoy my time with mine. I just want to make sure that that time is not cut short due to circumstances that I have a little input into.

[Ixion]

Do kids not ride push bikes any more?

[inlinefour]

If that is not pigeon holeing, what is?


I put my point of view, as have others. I do not have to defend myself to anyone. Everyone has their own views. Sometimes people agree, sometimes they don't. That's what makes the world go round. All I am saying is people should not judge others when they do not know them.

I hope you enjoy your time with your son. I know I enjoy my time with mine. I just want to make sure that that time is not cut short due to circumstances that I have a little input into.

Or plain thick. I was sharing an experience, not comparing it to you. Do you really expect me to believe that your that slow? Do you ride a honduh as well?:nya:


Do kids not ride push bikes any more?

Dunno, I think they are considered too dangerous these days. I sure learnt alot from riding everywhere as a kid. I think must have parents at their beck and call, dont tend to see many kids out on pushies like ya used to...

[Goblin]

Do kids not ride push bikes any more?
Apparently not....far too dangerous:nono:

[Hawkeye]

Has he never been a passenger in a car? Surely he must have seen the dangers first hand many times. Give the youngins some credit...they do learn more than you may think by just seeing what goes on when you are driving. By you being a learner rider yourself, wouldnt it be great to learn with your son? Imagine you both out on your own bikes, having good times with him instead of waiting for him to "mature". Give him a chance if he's keen.


Sitting as a passenger in a car is not the same as actually being in control and having to make decisions.
I had to direct my older boy to places we have driven to hundreds of times.
When I said 'surely you must know the way', his response was 'I never took much notice'.

[Goblin]

Sitting as a passenger in a car is not the same as actually being in control and having to make decisions.
I had to direct my older boy to places we have driven to hundreds of times.
When I said 'surely you must know the way', his response was 'I never took much notice'.
I'm not saying it is the same.
Well I guess it's a case of give credit where credit is due then:whistle:

[Hawkeye]

I was sharing an experience, not comparing it to you.


Sorry Inline but ' I had a draconic father also,'
That's not sharing, it's making a direct statement. It may not be what you meant but that's the way it comes across.
I do not want to get into a slagging match due to mis-interpretation. Life's too short. So let's just call it a day and get on with life.

[Hawkeye]

Do you ride a honduh as well?:nya:


Hi Inline, me again - sorry, but yes, I do ride a Honda.
Paid $100 for it and another $150 to get it through the WOF. Would have loved to buy a 250 rocket but as a first bike, it gets me around. It will also be a good first bike for my son once I can afford another one (after I get through my full).

[inlinefour]

Hi Inline, me again - sorry, but yes, I do ride a Honda.
Paid $100 for it and another $150 to get it through the WOF. Would have loved to buy a 250 rocket but as a first bike, it gets me around. It will also be a good first bike for my son once I can afford another one (after I get through my full).

There are 8 bikes in the garage, 2 of which I ride regularly. One of which is a CBR600RR, great bike. Might see ya on the road one day eh.:scooter:

[Pixie]

Since cars became cheap enough for learners to buy,the standard of driving has hit rock bottom.
This is because the morons aren't being weeded out by starting on bikes and ending up greasy stains on the road

[Sea Bass]

As a 15 year old my self who has friends who drive cars I can say that the main appeal to cars is the whole comfort factor, I say I'm gonna save all my money (that I work for at two jobs, night shifts.) and spend around 1-2k on a bike, they say "F**** off its too cold, windy, small, hard too ride a bike and plus you can buy a dodgy car for that much with 3 passenger seats." and thats how it is, my firends don't see that bikes are some much more fun compared to cars after watching the Fast and the Furious cars look like prime peices of motoring machinery.


And in the other discussion about the dangers I've ridden a tiny nifty fifty scooter to and from work (j ville to town.) over 6 months and have been pulled over by a cop telling me how dangerous the things were and to get a bigger bike as the scooters just aren't quick enough to get out of danger and thats just what Im doing now.

[N4CR]

my firends don't see that bikes are some much more fun compared to cars after watching the Fast and the Furious cars look like prime peices of motoring machinery.

Haha show them some vids of a turbo busa or something.. ghost rider etc. Might get them changing their ideas to 'crazy' and looks fun etc. Show em wheelie vids, stunt vids all sorts of stuff.. taking it to the streets, road rides.

Killboy on his 636 in usa going through the twisties, ghost rider doing the uppsala run, GR on turbo busa, superchaos busa and other turbo busas, stock zx10r's wasting heavily modded cars blah blah blah list goes on, they will change their mind.

[Hawkeye]

Of course, there is also the dilema? of where to put the sub woofer on the bike. And the 1000 watt amp to drive it.

[Lou Girardin]

Why do you want to spend your own money to haul a load of bludgers with you?
Bikes or 2 seat cars - that's the ticket.

[Motu]

Or a pick up,then you can haul your mates dirt bikes around for them...

[TygerTung]

Young people think that bikes are far to dangerous to ride. They are pretty dangerous though I'll give you an example

I'm 21 now, started riding when I was 20. Have been driving cars since I was 15, quite good at it now, like to go out to the track every once in a while push it around the summit road ( I like cars too, classic ones from the early 80's and late 70's, do the engine swap etc) In 6 years of driving I have never had an accident on the road, apart from one in a carpark where a speeding driver cut in front of me, not my fault.

Now I got a bike when I was 20, a mighty honda CG110, it blew up a couple of days after I got it, so I got a 125 barallel, new piston and rings, conrod etc, then blew that up after a few weeks trail riding around the hills, cracked the oil filter plug against a rock, ran it dry of oil, it seized.

The bike sat around for a about a year, never got around to fixing it. I fixed it at the start of the year, got back on, brought some cordura pants as I had only jeans before that. In the first 6 months of riding I crashed 3 times, first was a lowside trying to get a knee down and scraping a solid footpeg, second was a highside chasing my mate around the hills who was on a TZR250, went into a corner too hot, hit a small concrete wasll bounced off it, highsided, fuck that hurt, mate picked up bike, put the tank back on and I rode back, I couldn't get off the bike when I got back to my house though, I was in too much pain. Third time, was on my new bike in the wet, front wheel locked up under slight brakes and I low sided again.

Now this shows you that for learner riders bikes are a lot more dangerous, and I have a bit less of a bullet proof attitude of a 15 year old. I brought a 250 2 stroke KR250 for $1500, bloody quick, scared me first time I rode it, you know 45hp and 129kg, now a 15 year old can go out and buy somthing like that, quicker than a lot of tough street cars, and with no parent beside him telling him how to drive either, he/she can do what he/she wants.

I reckon you are better to get your car licence first before getting a bike licence as you are so much more vunerable on a bike, when you're young you don't know about the gear, if you lock up or get into a slide in a car, it's not too much of a problem, you're less likely to be injured in an accident.

But young people buy cars, they're cheap, cooler, as you can take your mates, oir girlfriend around, do them up, go cruising, all things which you can't do on a bike. Also you can take heaps of shit around.

I don't think giving a 15 year old a 250 sports bike like a 2 stroke or even a slow 4 stroke 4 cylinder 250 is a good idea. I think a small bike like a honda CG110, or a big block 125 is a better idea, in fact all riders should start out on a small bike like that, it teaches you good skills, if you can't ride a small bike fast, you can't ride a big one fast

[petesmeats]

The bike sat around for a about a year, never got around to fixing it. I fixed it at the start of the year, got back on, brought some cordura pants as I had only jeans before that. In the first 6 months of riding I crashed 3 times, first was a lowside trying to get a knee down and scraping a solid footpeg, second was a highside chasing my mate around the hills who was on a TZR250, went into a corner too hot, hit a small concrete wasll bounced off it, highsided, fuck that hurt, mate picked up bike, put the tank back on and I rode back, I couldn't get off the bike when I got back to my house though, I was in too much pain. Third time, was on my new bike in the wet, front wheel locked up under slight brakes and I low sided again.

Now this shows you that for learner riders bikes are a lot more dangerous, and I have a bit less of a bullet proof attitude of a 15 year old. I brought a 250 2 stroke KR250 for $1500, bloody quick, scared me first time I rode it, you know 45hp and 129kg, now a 15 year old can go out and buy somthing like that, quicker than a lot of tough street cars, and with no parent beside him telling him how to drive either, he/she can do what he/she wants.



Honestly i do not know of one single 15 year old that would attempt to get a knee down on anything, anywhere... (Sure if they were groomed to race and had race teaching but that is a different matter and would most certainly be on a race track.)

I reckon that one of the best things about having a bike is the fact that you dont have to pay the petrol to drop other people home and you dont have to risk getting caught and forking out a third or a quarter of the fine for driving with passengers on your restricted...

The road safety stuff was still taught at school when i was there (9 years ago) and when my little brother was there they had some as well (4 years ago...) The cop came round and set up a little obstacle course and taught about bike safety and bike preperation and safety gear and everything...

If they have taken that out of school that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard...

I guess it is now the job of the parents to teach kids about that stuff... Oh well a good time to spend some time with them...

From what i have seen of mates that have been brought up around motorbikes and motorbiking they really havnt been taught respect for the dangers of motorbiking... Generally they have heard stories from their old men about the dangerous and highly illegal things that they got up to in their prime (Well gone by now) and try to emulate them.
(Once again this is not the rule of thumb but i can think of four of my mates who this applies to) I guess what i am trying to say is that if you are going to try to teach your kid about riding safely then do it properly and keep your stories of heroism on two wheels till you can tell it to the guy next to you at the bar...:zzzz:

[Pixie]

Young people think that bikes are far to dangerous to ride. They are pretty dangerous though I'll give you an example...


Re: post # 83
Doesn't always work

[TygerTung]

I always thought when I was young that motorbikes were deadly, this is the properganda most young people believe, also most mums don't want their kids riding motorbikes.

[inlinefour]

I think some have forgot one most important fact.

Motomarsickles don't kill people, people kill people.

End of story. :bye: