Tips for a newbie in the rain......

[Fub@r]

Well eventually I'm going to have to face riding in the rain, rain itself doesn't phase me but its the unknown factor, how far is too far in a corner without taking a fall. How much traction does a bike effectively lose on the road when its raining in general?

[MSTRS]

Well eventually I'm going to have to face riding in the rain, rain itself doesn't phase me but its the unknown factor, how far is too far in a corner without taking a fall. How much traction does a bike effectively lose on the road when its raining in general?
You'll know:innocent:
Wet road traction is reduced as compared to dry, so just ride a bit more gently. And beware the white paint - it can be like oil on glass.

[bladez]

only go as fast as you feel comfy with go out slow to start with untill you get use to the rain.:scooter: slow down further back than you would normaly in the dry and dont break as hard

[Motu]

Just ride like the road is wet,always works for me.

[98tls]

if you have had a long spell of fine weather then it pisses down i believe the road is at its worst,trucks and there diesal/sheepshit etc takes a while to wash away.

[Fub@r]

At least in Auckland I wont have to worry about the sheep shit then :blip:

[98tls]

At least in Auckland I wont have to worry about the sheep shit then :blip: Nope guess not.......plenty of bullshit to watch out for though eh :blip: J/K:doobey:

[Fub@r]

Nope guess not.......plenty of bullshit to watch out for though eh :blip: J/K:doobey:

I thought that was in the Beehive in Welly :blip:

[98tls]

I thought that was in the Beehive in Welly :blip: :yes: good call..............just an after thought about riding in the rain,dont know if you ride with a dark visor,i do and they are shit in wet weather..if you go on a trip pack a clear one as well.

[Ixion]

If you ride sensibly normally you are unlikely to encounter problems due to traction on corners, as such. Unless ou have those horrible nylon tyres.
Where you do have to be careful is places where traffic (especially trucks) starts and stops. Traffic lights, give ways etc. Be careful when turning as you pull away from these. The traffic drops oil while sitting waiting and oil and water make a nasty mix.

Keep a close eye on the road, look for the drops of water sitting on the seal. Avoid thse areas.

A bigger danger in the rian is straight forward visibility, You can't see as well, and cages often can't see at all out of their rear and side windows because of steaming up. Keep an eye open for this, and allow for it.

Brake gently in the wet, and keep everything smooth. As someone said, it's far better after a good rain, all the crap gets washed away. Showers after a long fine spell, that's bad.

But the GN is a good bike for the wet, you'll be OK.

[Fub@r]

My GN has the factory tyres on it? Is it worth replacing these for a better tyre?

As for my visor I have a clear one with a anti fog insert in it........when its sunny I put my sun glasses on :)

[Karma]

Rear tyre is fine, front on a GN is shocking, get it replaced.

[Fub@r]

Rear tyre is fine, front on a GN is shocking, get it replaced.

Can you recommend a brand or type of tyre to change to?

[beyond]

Do everything a lot smoother and more gently than you would normally.
Even in Auckland, a shower after a dry spell is pretty dangerous. All the diesel, oil and crap comes to the surface.

Traction on cornering covers way to many issues like, suspension setup, type of tyres (stickies, or harder compunds) tyre condition, if you lean off the bike or not (leaning off the bike means you can corner quicker in the wet than you would without leaning and losing traction quicker).

As has been mentioned, ride slowly till you are used to it and build up from there. Don't get paranoid, it can be fun riding in the rain and in the wet. Your braking distances will increase a lot, so always keep that in mind and be more on the watch for eratic drivers and lane changes etc.

Cornering is something that you will get used to with time. Most tyres will give a little twitch when you are close to the cornering limit but in saying this avoid white lines and pianted areas like the plague when turning or braking.

[Karma]

I think there's only one that fits, but can't remember it offhand sorry.

[ZeroIndex]

dry spells after rain are the worst, cause your subconscious forgets about the ground being wet.. being a gn, it shouldn't be 'too' bad in the wet.. commuter style bikes work pretty well on wet roads.. (own personal opinion)

[rwh]

I'm another learner who hasn't had to face the wet yet.


... if you lean off the bike or not (leaning off the bike means you can corner quicker in the wet than you would without leaning and losing traction quicker).

You mean hanging your backside over the edge like a racer? I had assumed that only makes a difference once you run out of usable tread (or footpeg/stand clearance), and that the whole treaded area of the tyre had about the same amount of grip; is that not the case?



Cornering is something that you will get used to with time. Most tyres will give a little twitch when you are close to the cornering limit but in saying this avoid white lines and pianted areas like the plague when turning or braking.

Paint is relatively predictable - how do manhole covers compare? They're what scare me, since I'm less likely to guess where they are - and my headlight is one of those that points forward, being fixed to the fairing, rather than where I'm going ...

[ZeroIndex]

I'm another learner who hasn't had to face the wet yet.



You mean hanging your backside over the edge like a racer? I had assumed that only makes a difference once you run out of usable tread (or footpeg/stand clearance), and that the whole treaded area of the tyre had about the same amount of grip; is that not the case?



Paint is relatively predictable - how do manhole covers compare? They're what scare me, since I'm less likely to guess where they are - and my headlight is one of those that points forward, being fixed to the fairing, rather than where I'm going ...
personally, i don't think you should be doing 'knee-down race-styles' on a gn250, especially in the rain..

stay off paint as much as possible, and stay off manholes, especially when the bike is in a 'lean'

[N4CR]

if you want to havefun give it as much throttle as possible when turning on the paint and oiley intersections and shit drifting is a great way to learn nice bike controll but it roots your tyres. but don't drop it so yeah probably not the best thing to do sorry

if you have a gn 250 i wouldn't worry about the above though...

Just don't lean too far and as beyond said if you are ina sticky situation just get off the bike and it will have less lean and a higher speed than if you leaned it without in corners of course.

[Quasievil]

Well my advise is look out for the shiny patches on the road, where the Tar has lifted to the top, thats worse than white paint and as bad as ice.
Other than that im not to worried about a hell of alot more, just ride to the conditions:yes:

[DEATH_INC.]

A GN is on crossplys, most are not good in the wet......Repeat the paint and smooth shiny patches warnings and smoothness is the key. Try to do ONE thing at a time, accelerate OR turn, brake OR turn etc , not both at once.....

[Maha]

Found that the factory tyres on the GN didnt like the wet to much at all, but never got into any trouble, the odd wobble, would have change the tyres on my one if i kept through another winter, but sold it......

[raster]

my 2c:
Just button off when cornering by about 20%.
Reduce front braking slightly, don't want front lockup especially when cornering.
Remember car drivers brains short curcuit when it rains and do things they normally wouldn't.

[rwh]

personally, i don't think you should be doing 'knee-down race-styles' on a gn250, especially in the rain..

I wasn't saying anything about putting my knee down, I was responding to beyond suggesting more traction could be had by 'leaning off the bike', and wondering if this was true (and mine isn't the GN, but I don't suppose that matters)


stay off paint as much as possible, and stay off manholes, especially when the bike is in a 'lean'

Sure. But in the dark, with my headlight not pointing where my wheel is going, I'm bound to hit one sooner or later, and am interested to know how bad they really are - at normal traffic speeds. Is my front wheel just going to disappear and leave me on the ground, or will it just do a little twitch and I'll be over it before I've had time to do anything about it?

[Ixion]

I'm not quite clear about the "headlight not pointing where the front wheel is going". A headlight illuminates quite a wide area of road. Admittedly with a fairing mounted light the direction is not exactly that of the front wheel, but at any sort of speed there's very little in it.

Bike don't normally steer by turning the bars like a steering wheel (sh, I know about countersteering, but I'm keeeping things simple here. And trials riders don't count) so the front of the bike is normally pointing in the direction you will travel.

Manholes aren't THAT bad. You'll almost always have some warning, straighten up and cross them vertical if possible. Otherwise, just keep things smooth and gentle. I find them worse when braking, than for steering. The only bad ones are the honking great metal plates 6 or 8 foot square that they put over roadworks holes. But you'll always have some warning of danger in those circumstances.

If you DO encounter one and the wheels slip (front or rear) DON'T make the newbie mistake of grabbing the brakes. That IS guaranteed to bring you down. Just correct the slide and ride it out.

[RantyDave]

Is my front wheel just going to disappear and leave me on the ground, or will it just do a little twitch and I'll be over it before I've had time to do anything about it?
I've ridden in the rain quite a bit in the last few weeks, what with commuting in Wellington. I've had one or two little wiggles off the back but it's as you say - over before you've had time to really do anything about it. It is, however, your first warning of an approaching lowside and you do need to have a bit of a think about how fast you're going and what may have caused it.

On the plus side I went into a corner a bit faster than I thought was really advisable the other day .. in the wet, in the dark .. and realising that braking and cornering at the same time would almost certainly see me shiny side down I grew a pair and just went round it faster. There was no problem. A bit of a sphincter loosening moment for sure, but the bike wasn't bothered at all.

There's more in reserve than you think. Well, if you ride as slowly as me there is, anyway.

Dave

[apteryx_haasti]

Hi - to answer the question about the tyre - I've been told in a thread I started to switch the front tyre to a Pirelli (sp?) City Demon (I think...goes to see if can find it in previous thread...)

...some time later....ah, here we are:

[quote TWINKLE "If you've got the money its really worth changing at least the front tyre to something better. The stock tyres that come on the gn are really really slippery in the wet, and if you need to do an emergency stop chances are the front wheel will lock up and you will go down.(only been down once but locked it up plenty ) I got a pirelli city demon fitted yesterday and it is heaps better. I tried heavy braking in the rain on the way home and the front stuck very nicely, no sign of slipping at all(and only been worn in 10ks)...end Quote]

[beyond]

Ok, hanging off the bike queries??
I'n not talking about knee down full race mode here. If you get off the seat and hang off the bike more on wet corners or dry corners for that matter, your bike will corner faster for the same radius corner than if you weren't hanging off. This also means that if you are riding slower, you can corner harder, which also means in the wet, traction limits are not reached as quickly when you are hanging off. So, its safer to hang off the bike without the knee down to get your weight on the inside of the turn to give you more cornering traction in the wet. It doesn't actually increase traction but allows you to:
A: Go through the corner with more speed than you could otherwise.
B: Corner harder than you could otherwise, which means:
C: Gives you far more of a safety margin if you corner at the same speed but hang off your bike.

Example: Bearing mind that cornering traction limits are not a constant and change with bike, rider weight, suspension setup and tyres etc. But say a corner has a traction limit of 35 degrees in the wet while you are sitting on the bike. Thats your limit. If you go at the same speed at a 35 degree lean you have no safety margin at all. Hang off the bike and for the same corner and same speed your lean angle is now 25 degrees which means you are 10 degress off your margin of safety and thereby way safer. Hope that helps??

Painted lines are lethal: believe me. You get no warning of slippage. It's grip one second and none the next. Wet manholes aren't as dangerous as paint but pretty close do to it. Avoid them all when cornering or braking in the wet.

Example: I got a little lazy in heavy rain riding from Auckland to Napier a while back. Just before Taupo was taking a corner at around 160kmh, a lefty and inadvertantly crossed the left should line on a sweeper. Both tyres let go instantly on crosssing the white line. Life got pretty exciting from there on in. The tyres regripped as soon as they hit the seal, but by then I was sideways, crossed up. I steered into the slide and crossed up the other way. This happened about five times and must have looked bloody good. Never crossed the centre line but nearly needed to wash out the leathers.

Relaxing the grip on the bars brought her into line but I reiterate. Avoid painted markings in the wet like the plague.

[Filterer]

Another thing to think about while driving around the city is that when you come up to lights/stops/give ways there are white lines and words etc for africa so think about slowing down 4m shorter then you normally would....

Actaully give ways intersections are hell at the moment becasue they have replaced the "Give Way" words with silly triangles so you have white paint and have erased white paint EVERYWHERE at these intersections

Oh another note how much are those new tyres on the front that were reccomended, i Have no idea how much a bike tyre costs? $50? $200?

[beyond]

Tyres are going up with the fuel increases. 30-40% some reckon. :(

My front tyres are around $260.00 to $280.00 but that's for a 1400. Yours would probably be around $150ish??? or cheaper.

[Fub@r]

Oh another note how much are those new tyres on the front that were reccomended, i Have no idea how much a bike tyre costs? $50? $200?

I would be interested as well, anyone have a friend that has a tyre shop especially :blip:

[rwh]

Example: Bearing mind that cornering traction limits are not a constant and change with bike, rider weight, suspension setup and tyres etc. But say a corner has a traction limit of 35 degrees in the wet while you are sitting on the bike. Thats your limit. If you go at the same speed at a 35 degree lean you have no safety margin at all. Hang off the bike and for the same corner and same speed your lean angle is now 25 degrees which means you are 10 degress off your margin of safety and thereby way safer. Hope that helps??


Um - that sounds odd. By extrapolation, if I hung off the side of my bike on a trapeze, I could keep the bike standing vertical and go insanely fast around corners - but the tyre is still going to run out of grip with a certain amount of sideways force, and I'm puzzled as to why that limit is higher with the bike more vertical.

My understanding of getting off the seat is that it lets you get more effective lean when you've run out of either peg clearance or usable tyre - and I'm not aiming to run out of either for a few months, especially in the wet ...

Bear in mind I'm basing my theories on physics courses, common sense and about 20 years of car driving (and some cycling); my motorcycle experience is about 200km over the last month. I'm certainly open to being educated ...

[beyond]

I know what you are syaing and centrifugal force will push you out in the end.
Those angles were an example only and exagerrated to make the point.

But all the books on riding will tell you that hanging off the bike means you can corner tighter for the same speed, or increase your speed for the same lean or have a much higher safety margin for traction in the wet.

I saw this in action a few weeks back watching Motoracer cornering on real wet roads on the Coro Loop, hanging right off the bike. Most people wouldn't corner like that in the dry let alone the wet and the lean angle was quite severe, but made a lot safer with weight movement.

[ZeroIndex]

I know what you are syaing and centrifugal force will push you out in the end.
Those angles were an example only and exagerrated to make the point.

But all the books on riding will tell you that hanging off the bike means you can corner tighter for the same speed, or increase your speed for the same lean or have a much higher safety margin for traction in the wet.

I saw this in action a few weeks back watching Motoracer cornering on real wet roads on the Coro Loop, hanging right off the bike. Most people wouldn't corner like that in the dry let alone the wet and the lean angle was quite severe, but made a lot safer with weight movement.
..but Motoracer isn't quite human.. he's the motorcycle equivalent of The Stig from Top Gear :D p/t

[raster]

Perfectly correct beyond!

One word of warning from a newbe, I was attempting to "hang off the bike" while cornering and found for someone who was just getting to get the feel of the bike it does alter the balance of the bike so you have to get the action smooth.
Also I was concentrating on getting bum in the right place that I was taking some concentration off the road.

I believe, only do that once you know what your bike can do normally.

:zzzz: But then I'm an old fart :whocares:

R

[Fub@r]

Oh another note how much are those new tyres on the front that were reccomended, i Have no idea how much a bike tyre costs? $50? $200?

I got a price today they are $130, but none in stock in country at mo

[mdb]

Just stay out of the way of cagers .... but I always try to do that and have only failed once!

[sunhuntin]

manhole covers aint so bad, but do try and learn where they are on your main routes. train tracks the same [just lift the ass of the seat!]
on main corner i take to get home has a giveway bit in the middle of the road for right turning traffic [me] that is made of white paint. following the curve of the road for oncoming traffic, there are those dotted white lines. [2 rows] and then theres about 3 manhole covers...all close together, and all at the main part of the turn [where my max lean would be] to get through that in one piece, i have to take the corner totally upright.
as above, slow down a bit earlier for giveways and the like, and a bit smoother on take off. if its wet and at night, i always take an extra second to check for oncoming vehicles. if you have cars behind you, i always tap the brakes once to let the car behind know im going to be stopping/slowing soon. even more so if a larger vehicle.

[Fub@r]

Rode in to work today after heavy rains, didnt rain during my trip in but needed to get over my phobia about riding in the wet.

Had no problems, arms and back were getting a bit sore, think the nerves made me tense up. By the time I got to the office I was far more relaxed. Softly softly approach working for me

[ZeroIndex]

ok.. after the past two soaking Hamilton days (working for DXMail), here is a really good tip, for when it's raining (not talking about wet roads, just the 'act of rain').... here's my tip: stay at home, or out of the rain..

[sunhuntin]

but zero, wheres the fun in that? i got soaked going to work, got soaked at work, and coming home, and then the same again when shift 2 started. cept in shift 2 i gave up and changed my socks. lol.
coming home from second shift [finished at 7] the wind and rain made things interesting. if i couldve avoided it, i would have, but no option.

[ZeroIndex]

but zero, wheres the fun in that? i got soaked going to work, got soaked at work, and coming home, and then the same again when shift 2 started. cept in shift 2 i gave up and changed my socks. lol.
coming home from second shift [finished at 7] the wind and rain made things interesting. if i couldve avoided it, i would have, but no option.
yeah, well, i work at DXMail, and squelching around in muddy grass, and getting soaking wet while delivering mail, just doesn't seem fun to me.. hey, if it's "not pissing down", I'd go for a ride on the GPX (if I had to be somewhere), but yeah, just getting annoyed at the rain..

[sunhuntin]

yeah, well, i work at DXMail, and squelching around in muddy grass, and getting soaking wet while delivering mail, just doesn't seem fun to me.. hey, if it's "not pissing down", I'd go for a ride on the GPX (if I had to be somewhere), but yeah, just getting annoyed at the rain..

hmm yeh, fair enough. you win, lol.:first:

[Brett]

I dont know if this has been mentioned yet...too lazy to look, but always check that your electrical circuts and plugs are protected from water. Nothing worse than a bike that misses or dies when they are wet.

[Grantasaurus]

Anyone ever hit those bits on the road where they've cut expansion joints into the tarmac and filled in with just tar?
Those are nasty, they're the same colour as the road surface and as slippery as white lines. Like hitting vinyl.

[ZeroIndex]

Anyone ever hit those bits on the road where they've cut expansion joints into the tarmac and filled in with just tar?
Those are nasty, they're the same colour as the road surface and as slippery as white lines. Like hitting vinyl.

they are called 'snakes' (if i remember ixion's terms correctly) :) but yeah, those suck..

[NighthawkNZ]

I don't mind riding in the rain... I don't mind riding in the wind... put the two together and it gives me hebby jebby's :( :baby:

[Skyryder]

Well eventually I'm going to have to face riding in the rain, rain itself doesn't phase me but its the unknown factor, how far is too far in a corner without taking a fall. How much traction does a bike effectively lose on the road when its raining in general?

In the wet I ride with higher reves than normal. Anywhere from 4 to 5 thou. I use my brakes as little as pos and use the engine braking instead. You will find that upping the revs the bike will track better in the wet. When you do brake see that your bike is upright and not leaning over. Just ride to the conditions and always keep an eye out for an escape route. I usually keep hard into the centre line where poss. Reduces road spray and gives an escape route for most situations.

Skyryder

[xsive-rider]

Ok, hanging off the bike queries??
I'n not talking about knee down full race mode here. If you get off the seat and hang off the bike more on wet corners or dry corners for that matter, your bike will corner faster for the same radius corner than if you weren't hanging off. This also means that if you are riding slower, you can corner harder, which also means in the wet, traction limits are not reached as quickly when you are hanging off. So, its safer to hang off the bike without the knee down to get your weight on the inside of the turn to give you more cornering traction in the wet. It doesn't actually increase traction but allows you to:
A: Go through the corner with more speed than you could otherwise.
B: Corner harder than you could otherwise, which means:
C: Gives you far more of a safety margin if you corner at the same speed but hang off your bike.

Example: Bearing mind that cornering traction limits are not a constant and change with bike, rider weight, suspension setup and tyres etc. But say a corner has a traction limit of 35 degrees in the wet while you are sitting on the bike. Thats your limit. If you go at the same speed at a 35 degree lean you have no safety margin at all. Hang off the bike and for the same corner and same speed your lean angle is now 25 degrees which means you are 10 degress off your margin of safety and thereby way safer. Hope that helps??

Painted lines are lethal: believe me. You get no warning of slippage. It's grip one second and none the next. Wet manholes aren't as dangerous as paint but pretty close do to it. Avoid them all when cornering or braking in the wet.

Example: I got a little lazy in heavy rain riding from Auckland to Napier a while back. Just before Taupo was taking a corner at around 160kmh, a lefty and inadvertantly crossed the left should line on a sweeper. Both tyres let go instantly on crosssing the white line. Life got pretty exciting from there on in. The tyres regripped as soon as they hit the seal, but by then I was sideways, crossed up. I steered into the slide and crossed up the other way. This happened about five times and must have looked bloody good. Never crossed the centre line but nearly needed to wash out the leathers.

Relaxing the grip on the bars brought her into line but I reiterate. Avoid painted markings in the wet like the plague.

well matey, it's only a matter of time at that speed in the wet!!!
i should know, been on bikes for 30 odd and still here, take it easy man.:rockon:

[Roj]

Well eventually I'm going to have to face riding in the rain, rain itself doesn't phase me but its the unknown factor, how far is too far in a corner without taking a fall. How much traction does a bike effectively lose on the road when its raining in general?

One of the other problems with riding in the rain is reduced visibility, fogging inside your visor and rain on the outside, there are a range of antifog visors that can improve this, I also find that keeping the outside of the visor clean helps reduce the rain on it, I wax my visor as opposed to using fog inserts, I find that it reduces fog on the inside and helps the water run off the outside

[Hawkeye]

Tyres are going up with the fuel increases. 30-40% some reckon. :(

My front tyres are around $260.00 to $280.00 but that's for a 1400. Yours would probably be around $150ish??? or cheaper.

I got a pair of tyres for the CBX from Boyles in Welly about 8 month ago. Cost me $160 for the pair. Damm good tyres for the amount paid. And I commute in most conditions.

[hamie1]

Ride to the conditions. Might sound like a nana but it's that simple isn't it? If you can... do, if you can't... don't! If you think you're going to fast you most likely are! In the wet stay safe. Is it better to get there quickly or to fall off trying to get there quickly?
I'm just asking, not assuming anything...

[Biff]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=18451&highlight=riding+in+the+rain+biff