The Christian Smacking Manual!!

[Mental Trousers]

A row has broken out (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3736210a10,00.html) over a manual published by a Christian group that on how to smack kids.


Smacking is meant to drive the foolishness, the sinful manifestations, out of the child's personality so that they do not become permanent fixtures," it says.

[Fatjim]

And a row is about tho break out here too.

[placidfemme]

who gives a shit... spare the rod spoil the child

[Mental Trousers]

And a row is about tho break out here too.

Oh no, what have I done!!!!!!

:nya:

[Fatjim]

lol.


You trying to compete with me as the site shit stirrer?

[The Stranger]

who gives a shit... spare the rod spoil the child

Placidfemme for PM.

[Fatjim]

Yes, but should they be smacked when they're still in the womb?

And are to children allowed to smack each other, for sport?

[PuppetMaster]

If they are arguing amongst themselves then they are not annoying me.

[MSTRS]

And a row is about tho break out here too.
Ooohhh....what are we queuing up for?

[placidfemme]

Well I just read the story... and that does sound wrong... a 15 minute smaking session? Thats a bit much... If you discipline your child when they are young (3-6) they won't need much punishment when older... but for 15 minutes? To make the child realise the "Sin". You can't expect a child to fully understand the concept of God and Sin at a young age...

[Finn]

Ah yes, religion. The root of all evil.

Personally, I'm against smacking children but a firm believer in choice. No laws will stop physical child abuse. Mass sterilisation of offending groups is the only answer. It would solve a few other problems too.

Have a nice day.

[SARGE]

lol.


You trying to compete with me as the site shit stirrer?


mate.. you got a LONG way to get that behind the likes of WINJA, Sniper, Dover & Poos and myself..


i was real disappointed ..when i read the title, i was hoping it was instructions on smacking Xtians..

not that i need help in that area ...

[Paul in NZ]

I want my money back.

I thought I was getting a book on smacking christians....

(pt)

[emaN]

Since when are us KB'rs so ready believe what the media says?!

I'm guessing the "10-15 minute process" includes talking to the child, explaining what they've done & what will now happen, the smack (if any) and room time.

Anna Chalmers was perhaps confused with her partners 15minute spanking sessions of a different kind...

Why jump to the conclusion that Christians all over NZ are waiting with abaited breath to beat up little people?!

Here are a couple of PDF's downloaded from their site; no-where does it mention abusive punishment. I couldn't find any reference to "beating the devil/sin out of the little shits" either.
They are for discipline in a loving environment.

In other threads we whinge about 'todays youth' being outta control; we look down on their parents & accuse them of not setting boundaries.

This is a way of setting boundaries, one of many ways, not the only way.

Read their PDF's (if it's not asking too much) and tell me if there's anything inherently wrong with what they propose.

[Fryin Finn]

who gives a shit... spare the rod spoil the child
One should learn to keep the rod in ones pants and the child will be fine

[Colapop]

I smacked my kids as little 'uns. It hasn't done them any harm. In saying that I've never hit them anywhere but on their arse and haven't hit them with anything but my hand (about 3 smacks max.) They learned very quickly not to do things that (mostly) I considered naughty or dangerous. Yes I am the law in my household and as long as they live in my house they abide by my rules.
All that said I support them in everything they do and trust that they (now) know the difference between right and wrong. I also have not smacked either of them since I don't know when (years).

[SARGE]

I smacked my kids as little 'uns. It hasn't done them any harm. In saying that I've never hit them anywhere but on their arse and haven't hit them with anything but my hand (about 3 smacks max.) They learned very quickly not to do things that (mostly) I considered naughty or dangerous. Yes I am the law in my household and as long as they live in my house they abide by my rules.
All that said I support them in everything they do and trust that they (now) know the difference between right and wrong. I also have not smacked either of them since I don't know when (years).


right there with ya man.. pop used to give me a caning whenever i fucked up. it built character .

society took a nosedive when the hippies took over

[The_Dover]

my mother used to smack me with a wooden spoon.

but I'm still a delinquent.

[Finn]

My parents never hit me at all and look how well I turned out.

[Hitcher]

The pro-smackers have an elegant line in sophistry. They state that "parents" should be able to use "force" to discipline children, where appropriate. Many New Zealanders would agree with this proposition. But the unasked question is around the context, level and extent of such measures. I don't think that many New Zealanders would support 10-15 minute sessions, or for that matter any application of force to a child that constituted a "session".

[emaN]

I don't think that many New Zealanders would support 10-15 minute sessions


I'm guessing the "10-15 minute process" includes talking to the child, explaining what they've done & what will now happen, the smack (if any) and room time.

10chrs....

[HDTboy]

Placidfemme for PM.
NOOOOOO!!!! We couldn't have a lesbian Prime Minister

[Finn]

NOOOOOO!!!! We couldn't have a lesbian Prime Minister

Sorry Placid, but that's funny.

[placidfemme]

NOOOOOO!!!! We couldn't have a lesbian Prime Minister

ahahhaa too late buddy look at uncle helen!!!

[Finn]

ahahhaa too late buddy look at uncle helen!!!

I think that was the joke. While Helen is a big problem, so too are all the man hating bitches that surround her. Which raises a question. Why are all female politians as ugly as fuck in NZ? Yuck.

[Paul in NZ]

The pro-smackers have an elegant line in sophistry.

The anti smackers do a pretty good line on calling a fluffy bunny a spikey porkupine as well. Just my opinion as a barbarian horde of course ;-)

[placidfemme]

I think that was the joke. While Helen is a big problem, so too are all the man hating bitches that surround her. Which raises a question. Why are all female politians as ugly as fuck in NZ? Yuck.

hehe ok

yeah why do they hate men so much?

[Finn]

yeah why do they hate men so much?

Don't all ugly chicks?

[The_Dover]

yeah why do they hate men so much?


jealousy. they figure that with their masculinity and butch hard looks they should be endowed with a penis too.

[MSTRS]

.....Which raises a question. Why are all female politians as ugly as fuck in NZ? Yuck.
Anyone too ugly to be the 'shaftee', must want to be the 'shafter' ??

[placidfemme]

I don't think its limited to just the ugly chicks...

[SwanTiger]

Since when are us KB'rs so ready believe what the media says?!

I'm guessing the "10-15 minute process" includes talking to the child, explaining what they've done & what will now happen, the smack (if any) and room time.


Wow, it is great to see someone who has brains.

As mentioned by emaN, the media are just hyping this up to create a sensation that is going to sell their bullshit.

Anyway, I love it when these threads pop up on Kiwi Biker because you really learn who is a mindless moron and who is intelligent enough to be worthy of respect.

Abuse by my definition is punishment without reason.

:doobey: :doobey: :doobey: :innocent: :innocent: :zzzz: :nya: :whocares:

[The_Dover]

You also learn who is an arrogant, opinionated and judgemental toss pot.

[SwanTiger]

You also learn who is an arrogant, opinionated and judgemental toss pot.

Come on now Dovey, don't be so hard on yourself.

[The_Dover]

I'm always hard.

On myself and others.

[Beemer]

Yes, but should they be smacked when they're still in the womb?

And are to children allowed to smack each other, for sport?

Yes to both questions. Any little fucker caught kicking his mother in the ribs prior to birth deserves a damn good slapping, especially if said kicking happens in the middle of the night and wakes her.

And half the fun of watching kids is watching them kick shit out of each other then run crying to their mummies. Prepares them well for playing rugby when they get older.

[Colapop]

Smacking is not violence - it's a deterent. There is a huge difference between 3 smacks on the arse using your hand and punching a kid in the head. If more parents were taught how to parent using a variety of displinary methods then kids behaviour will improve.
That and bringing back corporal punishment in schools and compulsory military training (if you haven't got a job or studying then do some time in the military - the cost can be offset by the saving of benefits, now and in the future)

[RantyDave]

Having skimmed the whole thing, including the usual collapse into discussions of lesbian politicians, I can safely say that I am the first to state the obvious:

I was smacked as a child, and I'll beat the shit out of anyone who says it gave me violent tendencies.

You may now return to your normal programming. As it were.

Dave

[Finn]

You also learn who is an arrogant, opinionated and judgemental toss pot.

Fuck you too!

Still on for tonight mate? Nasty weather for it but I'm tough.

[kickingzebra]

I'm always hard.

On myself and others.

And Finn is soliciting??

If Dover asks to ride pillion, run to the nearest wall!!!

[The_Dover]

The_Dover does not ride pillion.

[kickingzebra]

The_Dover does not ride pillion.

Its hard to be hard on someone else if you're up front!!!

[Kornholio]

Pfft wooden spoons, they were to easy to break. The olds then moved on to poplar branches but along came alkathene...goddam they were a tough one to beat, somehow they mysteriously kept disappearing but that was all good cos the old man had a hundred metre roll at the cowshed :/

I sorta turned out alright I spose...havent got kids myself but would probably smack them if were up to no good...not with alkathene tho :X

[ogr1]

Religion!
Don't ya just love it.........Tis the main cause for all the UNHOLY crap that occurrs on this shit 'ole planet.

Burn all the parasites that preach this "fear of God" bullshit.
No better than f@@kin witches if you ask me!

There.......... I feel much better now.

[APPLE]

10-15 minutes is a long time to smack your kids up man?

[Edbear]

Since when are us KB'rs so ready believe what the media says?!



But if you can't believe the Media, who can you believe....????:gob:

[Edbear]

right there with ya man.. pop used to give me a caning whenever i fucked up. it built character.




Yup! You sure are a character, Sarge....:innocent:

[The Stranger]

A row has broken out (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3736210a10,00.html) over a manual published by a Christian group that on how to smack kids.

Pffffft....what would Christians know about spanking :msn-wink:

Christine

[Colapop]

Pfft wooden spoons, they were to easy to break. The olds then moved on to poplar branches but along came alkathene...goddam they were a tough one to beat, somehow they mysteriously kept disappearing but that was all good cos the old man had a hundred metre roll at the cowshed :/

I sorta turned out alright I spose...havent got kids myself but would probably smack them if were up to no good...not with alkathene tho :X
Hahahaha!! Your old man must know mine....

[Karma]

The man who strikes first admits that his ideas have given out. ~Chinese Proverb

Or in another way;

Violence is the domain of an untrained mind.

I've never had kids, and was never smacked as a child, but if the only way you can control your children is by physical punishment, then you havn't tried hard enough.

[Colapop]

That's real cool that you had the fortune to be brought up that way Weasel but alot of us weren't. No excuses but it's pretty difficult to find solutions for displine when you've never known any other way. As stated though there's a huge difference between a smack and abuse.
I shit you not, growing up I got thrashed with whatever was handy. I dunno whether I'm better or worse for it but I do know that my kids will never have to know what anything like that is like. I'm big enough and strong enough to smack a grown man my size into next week. I shudder to think what some people who aren't my size can do to a kid.

[Grahameeboy]

Pffffft....what would Christians know about spanking :msn-wink:

Christine

Bend over!!...well the Bible - Proverbs 23:13 does say:

Don't fail to discipline your Children
They will not die if you spank them
Physical Discipline
May well save then from death

Trouble is that Bible is full of metaphors and open to interpretation...not a bad thing.....and the Bible does also talk about commonsense and that there is a difference between knowledge and wisdom plus of course we have to apply the Bible to todays society which is different.

I guess non Christians believe in spanking kids and I do not know any Christian friends who spank their kids, preferring to talk or send them to their room etc.

I would never spank my Daughter but then she is not strong plus she is likely to get her own back and run me over in her wheelchair...which she does anyway......

Everything in perspective eh

[Grahameeboy]

The man who strikes first admits that his ideas have given out. ~Chinese Proverb

Or in another way;

Violence is the domain of an untrained mind.

I've never had kids, and was never smacked as a child, but if the only way you can control your children is by physical punishment, then you havn't tried hard enough.

True I guess and you wou expect a decent parent to be able to avoid this eh.......commonsense

[Colapop]

Spankme Kyboy Spankme!!!

[Mental Trousers]

Pffffft....what would Christians know about spanking :msn-wink:

Christine

Are you saying you know more?? :gob:

[Grahameeboy]

Spankme Kyboy Spankme!!!

Ah ha........but you will need to Baptised first in a spa pool.........steady boy!!

[Colapop]

Um ..... yeah about the pool - me an Sheila were ... um ... using it ... last night ... so you might need the .... ahh.... filters changed....

[Grahameeboy]

Um ..... yeah about the pool - me an Sheila were ... um ... using it ... last night ... so you might need the .... ahh.... filters changed....

Good on ya mate.........so where was the wifey??

[Colapop]

*cough* um .... she was ... erm... at home minding the 'P' cook....

[Grahameeboy]

*cough* um .... she was ... erm... at home minding the 'P' cook....

Ain't it great to see a marriage of sharing and compromise....you are an inspiration..........hence I am single!!

[Karma]

That's real cool that you had the fortune to be brought up that way Weasel but alot of us weren't. No excuses but it's pretty difficult to find solutions for displine when you've never known any other way.

"My dad hit me so I'll hit my kids"

Sorry mate, doesn't fly.

End of the day, the way you look after your family is your own business, but I know that when I have kids I'd prefer them to respect me through the education I'll give them, rather than fear that I might take out the stick.

[Grahameeboy]

Anyway, I will be accused of being off topic

I guess you have to wonder who really are authentic Christians when they say stuff via the media...I never bible bash others, it is for others to see how I am and to decide for themselves and the only preaching in my family is done in the Church.

[Ozzie]

Let me start by saying, I am not advocating child abuse.....BUT......

Tell me, what is the difference between hitting inappropriatly, and screaming the house down at a kid?

I have seen both extremes, and neither is pretty!

IMHO, where we went wrong was going politically correct. Stop hitting, rip shreds off your kids instead? WTF? This is why no prick these days respect the cops, the law, or their parents. Not good enough.

My kids have been smacked, twice, once, and three times (respectively), each time was to warn them (so to speak) of danger, you say no, no, no, when they fiddle with a power point, a quick smack on the hand shows them it is serious, and so are you, especially when smacking and shouting is NOT the norm for them.

[Colapop]

"My dad hit me so I'll hit my kids"....
Nah mate not at all. I'm saying that I don't hit my kids like that. I did smack them when they were very young (up to 2 or 3) but not since. It's unfair to say my kids fear me - they do understand the difference between right and wrong though.

[Karma]

Nah mate not at all. I'm saying that I don't hit my kids like that. I did smack them when they were very young (up to 2 or 3) but not since. It's unfair to say my kids fear me - they do understand the difference between right and wrong though.

Cool cool...

I'm just a passive kinda guy, I'll avoid violence at all costs.

But from what I read of you I'm sure your kids are well rounded.

[Colapop]

Yeah the fat buggers!! My boy is in the 1st 15 at Wellington College (he's 15) another over 6' prop and 115kg's - he scares even me!! To see him play makes me fear for the opposition but he's never smacked no-one...!! I think he's going to be one of those missionary thingys when he grows up. And my girl is a singer (at 11) . So yeah they're pretty cool. (wish I was like them)

[Mental Trousers]

I've never had kids, and was never smacked as a child, but if the only way you can control your children is by physical punishment, then you havn't tried hard enough.

Why would it be the only way?? Treating corporal punishment as the last resort emphasizes that what the child has done is REALLY bad, far worse than go to your room (and play ps2 or chat on the internet) etc. Other sorts of punishment like being grounded lose effectiveness if the term is too long. Being grounded for a month might as well be forever to a child and if you're grounded forever whats the point of behaving??

Most people who are anti smacking argue like people use it as the only disciplinary method. There are some who are like that, but they're the exception rather than the rule.

[ogr1]

It pays to get down to their level and make them understand what you wan't from them behaviour wise.
The rewards are far greater than a back hander anyday.
I can take my 4 year old anywhere and he don't play up, compared to other kids I see screaming and kicking off, makes me wan't to slap the parents.
Their just kids at the end of the day and if the parents don't guide em through life, then it's both parties who will suffer as they mature.

IMHO, some ars'oles should be de-bollocked at puberty, so they can't contaminate the rest of the world.

[James Deuce]

Weasel - you've no kids, so respectfully, you are clueless. You'll argue the point. People who don't have to look after kids 24x7 always do. Until you have that responsibility you aren't equipped to comment. Looking after siblings and other family members, occasionally or even frequently, isn't a reasonable facsimile either. I used to think I'd do my best to be the perfect parent too, but there's no such thing. People aren't perfect. They're less perfect when they've had 6 hours sleep in a week and a toddler lets the handbrake off in the car and wrecks the fence. Or when you're commuting to work from hospital for a week on even less sleep after watching one of your own kids struggle to stay alive all night, every night for that week.

The world isn't black and white and neither is parenting.

We've done the "everyone who doesn't parent like me is a bad parent" to death guys and girls. No one is going to agree with anyone else, except in broad general brush strokes. Generalisations lead to angry discussions based on false assumptions. Asking someone for parenting advice is a constructive way of improving your own skills. Being lectured at by violent Christians or liberal do-gooders is definitely a turn off.

Can we get back to the point now? Where's my manual on how to smack Christians then?

[Grahameeboy]

Can we get back to the point now? Where's my manual on how to smack Christians then?


Do you want the Life Application One, New Zealand Version...........or shall I just pop down and we will bypass the manual........:blip:

[James Deuce]

Uh-oh, looks like somebody's going to get a hurt!

Somebody!

[Karma]

Being lectured at by violent Christians or liberal do-gooders is definitely a turn off.

I'm not too sure I fit either of those descriptions...

[James Deuce]

Anyone who owns a Kwaka is alright in my book.

[WINJA]

who gives a shit... spare the rod spoil the child
YOU TURNED OUT GAY , WTF DO YOU KNOW ABOUT CHILD REARING

[Str8 Jacket]

YOU TURNED OUT GAY , WTF DO YOU KNOW ABOUT CHILD REARING

Well, duh... Spare the rod....

[RantyDave]

Where's my manual on how to smack Christians then?
I was wondering where to get some Christian smack, and how it different from ordinary smack. "It's like, from god, man".

BTW, I apparently have to spread some reputation around before greening you again. C'est la vie.

Dave

[Str8 Jacket]

I was wondering where to get some Christian smack, and how it different from ordinary smack. "It's like, from god, man".


I wouldnt be surprised if Brian Tamaki knew....

[Lou Girardin]

A lawyer commented on the anti-smacking bill recently. He said the bill is basically a control measure by the green fanatics who do not want juries to have the discretion afforded by the current defence of reasonable force.
It also seems that the case the greens are so fond of quoting, in which a 12 year old was hit with a riding crop. He was actually punished for swinging at his father with a baseball bat.
I'd say he was lucky it was just a riding crop.

[scumdog]

Let me start by saying, I am not advocating child abuse.....BUT......

Tell me, what is the difference between hitting inappropriatly, and screaming the house down at a kid?

I have seen both extremes, and neither is pretty!

IMHO, where we went wrong was going politically correct. Stop hitting, rip shreds off your kids instead? WTF? This is why no prick these days respect the cops, the law, or their parents. Not good enough.

My kids have been smacked, twice, once, and three times (respectively), each time was to warn them (so to speak) of danger, you say no, no, no, when they fiddle with a power point, a quick smack on the hand shows them it is serious, and so are you, especially when smacking and shouting is NOT the norm for them.

I'm with Ozzie here, kids are like pups, when they're little (pups up to three monthe, kids up to three years) you have to show them who rules and what is acceptable behaviour, if it takes a smack or two so be it.

Rarely smacked my kids and by the time they were 4 years old I hardly had to raise my voice.

Even as teenagers they knew if my voice got louder/harder they were in deep shit, never ever had to lift a finger.

Never had the drugs, booze, behaviour problems from them that I see so much in my job - and now my kids are bigger they have never complained I was too hard on them.

[James Deuce]

I think Ozzie and SD have it right myself. The counter argument is always to display some one percenter's victim and then compare everyone who opposes the anti-smacking bill as a one percenter themselves. Standard Reactionary-Liberal tactic that one.

[Paul in NZ]

I think Ozzie and SD have it right myself. The counter argument is always to display some one percenter's victim and then compare everyone who opposes the anti-smacking bill as a one percenter themselves. Standard Reactionary-Liberal tactic that one.


Yeah. Bloody Reactionary-Liberals - next thing they will be trotting out Arthur Alan Thomas every time you want to discuss executing Satan...

(heh heh)

[The Stranger]

The man who strikes first admits that his ideas have given out. ~Chinese Proverb
.

The chinese proverb overlooks one very important thing. The person you are arguing with must be capable of understanding reason.
Sadly many adults can't do that let alone young children.

[Ozzie]

It is only serving one purpose, creating tomorrow's victims of society!

It will be these younguns that get hooked on P, beat the shit out of some old lady (cause she reminded me of mum), then the jury will feel sorry for them, as will the judge, and give them the minimum sentence. They will be the victim, to hell with the lady they cripled.

As a child myself, it never occured to me that adults have as little a clue how to fix things as I now know we do. Face it, society is an experiment that some sick f*ck dreamed up, but what do you do?

It does put a whole new spin on Bible Bashing tho! :gob:

[XP@]

Our house is currently having the to smack or not to smack debate (Kids 2f,9m,12f & 12m)

My instant answer has always been no smacking.

What is smacking? It is a tool for parents to get what they want.
The same can be said for time out, no tv, early bed, or whatever punishment you decide to use.
By the same token ice cream, a trip to the park or playing ball can also be tools to get what you want.

The problem is when smacking is used to solve all problems for the parents not just the most serious. In bike terms it is an adjustable spanner, will open most bolts but has a tendancy to round them off making it harder to open them in the future.

If smacking is taken away then an easy and powerful tool will be taken away. What will be put there in its place? Highly likely, nothing. A LOT of eduation would be needed to help parents with "positive parenting". Without this then yes, kids will beat up on their parents who will be able to do nothing about it. (I have seen this happen, I lived in Sweden for 2 years)

Smacking and other punishments are easy to give out and make effective, but they increase stress.
Wheras a diversion or well used positive incentive makes for a much more quieter and more enjoyable life for the family. This is the harder option to implement because you will often have to outsmart your kids to do it.

Personally I find it easier to take 4 kids to the park, Te Papa, The Zoo where ever than sit around all day and do nothing. If I'm around the house all day then i end up fustrated, annoyed and frazzled. But expend a bit of energy in the kids and you've had a good day, they have had a good day and you havn't resorted to tv, playstation bribes with a few early bed time threats thrown in, instead you have given the kids a good memory with some photos of the day.

Then there is the other side where excessive force is used to tragic results. We need to address this problem and quickly. How, I don't know but I am sick of hearing about kids being killed by there parents / guardiens. Maybee a ban on smacking would show the potential killers up before it was too late.

[mstriumph]

my mother used to smack me with a wooden spoon.

but I'm still a delinquent.

that's because you ENJOYED it :yes:

[Lou Girardin]

What is smacking? It is a tool for parents to get what they want.


Obedience?
Peace and quiet?

Sounds good to me.

[Zed]

A row has broken out (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3736210a10,00.html) over a manual published by a Christian group that on how to smack kids.I just had a read thru that article on Stuff, then I read through this thread, and 90% of your replies can be summed up with what Craig Smith of Family Integrity said:


Mr Smith said last night the brochure was written for a Christian audience and outlined the biblical philosophy of child punishment. Many Christians did not want to see smacking banned as that would take away parental authority, but he conceded the brochure would appear as "total nonsense" to non-Christians.

Many of you, parents or not, have little or no understanding about the Biblical method of child disciple 'the rod of correction', which has been practised for 1000's of years successfully, and yes even today I know personally of Christian families who have used it, and it works - just like God said it would!

[The_Dover]

It's not the same as the Catholic "erection of correction" is it?

Punishment by priest.

[inlinefour]

I just had a read thru that article on Stuff, then I read through this thread, and 90% of your replies can be summed up with what Craig Smith of Family Integrity said:



Many of you, parents or not, have little or no understanding about the Biblical method of child disciple 'the rod of correction', which has been practised for 1000's of years successfully, and yes even today I know personally of Christian families who have used it, and it works - just like God said it would!


But sadly the minority have ruined it for the rest of society by thinking they can "bash" the kids as discipline. They might not actually be Christians, but alas many who physically abuse children claim to be. I am not against a light smack as a form of disciplining a child at all. However the definition of what exactly a smack is comes into question. If the child(ren) are being hurt physically then it becomes a problem.

[Skyryder]

I thought this was a manual on 'shooting up' Christians. I could make a realy sick :sick: joke on this..................but I don't want to be consigned to that Scotish thread.

Skyryder

[Ozzie]

When I was a kid.....

Yeh, sounds like some really old bugger, but at 34 I consider myself not to be.

So, when I was a kid, there was not even half the shit there is now. Corporal punishment was not only legal, but part of everyday life. What did that do, according to the goddy goodies, corrupted everyone and turned them into child bashers, I'd argue that.

I got the cain twice, and to be honest, deserved it. In no uncertain terms, it taught me, if i'm a prat, there are consequences. It taught me respect for the rules, and, to a degree, discipline.

So now, we've outlawed the cain, your frowned apon for smacking, and kids are growing up with nothing but contempt.

I agree, positive reinforcement is a good parenting tactic, and those kids that grow up like that, know the bounderies, have respect, and don't generally cause too much shit (beyond the odd mistake and learning experience), but face it, not everyone has a grip on that, just the same as not everyone who smacks beats the piss out of the kids.

As I said before, it has gone too PC, and by doing that, we are F*cking it all up, and actually achieving the exact opposite of what the aim was. Kids are growing up with complete contempt for others, their parents, the law.

There is another thread on here at the mo, from placidfemme if memorey serves me correct, about how a sibling of her x got run over and killed, by a mate, because he didn't let him use a phone.

Everyone asks why, I think the answer is obvious, everyone tries too hard to protect the rights of kids, thieves, murderers and other crims, and not enough to society, and the law abiding respectful people in it! It is a vicious circle, and it is only going to get worse.

[ogr1]

All those who smack their kids say "Yes".
All those who would belt a relative or a stranger for smacking YOUR kids say "Yes".
No difference, it's still inflicting pain, but you would probably go berserk if someone else slapped your kid(s).
It's a pathetic excuse to dominate your children through a lack of understanding and communication.
Remember when you got a slap from yer old man? Scary was'nt it! How can my Mum/Dad the people I trust and Love, cause me physical pain.

If you said yes to both? then your a hypocrite! Point is: No one has the right to smack any kids....Period.
Resort to violence with your kids, then you have failed miserably, earned no respect and just put fear into their tiny minds.

Besides......They will be bigger and stronger than you one day and then you'll be sorry!

[Ozzie]

No one has the right to smack any kids....Period.
Resort to violence with your kids, then you have failed miserably, earned no respect and just put fear into their tiny minds..........:tugger:

Spoken like a single person with no kids!

Yeh, my old man hit me, once, for bein a wanker, endangering myself and my younger brother. My mum hit me once too, for being disrespectful (and she thought my block was headed to her as a hit). I have three kids, that know the rules, respect them, respect me and other adults, not only that, but other people.

There is an absolute difference between discipline, ie. "a smack" and abuse.

So what would you do? Shout the F'n house down, leave the kid thinking they're a worthless piece of shit?

My point is, a "smack" has it's place, as does positive re-enforcement, positive parenting. Child abuse has no place, whether at my hand or yours, neither does spousal abuse. Problem is, too many can't tell the freekin difference, and are either pussies and let the kids walk all over them, shout the roof off (but i didn't smack them! :weird: ), or beat the liven piss out of them.

In my book, none of that is condonable!

[ogr1]

Utter bollox......... and yes I have kid(s).
I'm also man enough not to slap any kids.
Thanx for the :tugger: It's nice to know that your Country has Numpties also.
Kinda makes me feel at home :yes:

[Ozzie]

Utter bollox......... and yes I have kid(s).
I'm also man enough not to slap any kids.
Thanx for the :tugger: It's nice to know that your Country has Numpties also.
Kinda makes me feel at home :yes:

has what? What is Numpties?

Good luck to you, point is, not eveyone is as godly as you. People have many methods, not all are abusers, and, not all are as perfect as you. Be interesting to speak with your "kid(s)" to see how perfect you are.

Society has got out of hand, and the major reason is judgemental pratts that have nothing better to do than poke holes in eveyone else.

As I say, good luck to you......:not:

[ogr1]

I'm not Godly & not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.
I just don't smack my kids, that's what this topic is about.
I agree with you 100% regarding "society being out of hand", of which I will try and protect my kid(s) from, but there is enough shit in this world without inflicting physical abuse on your own blood. Judgemental on others? maybe to a certain degree, but remember, slap your kids and you make up part of that "society breakdown".

Numptie: A derogatory term for someone who's a bit short on the old common sense, but you started it.

Thanx for the red rep whoever you are? Nice to add in your remark "Small minded, but your entltled to your opinion, so here's mine".

That about sums it up! Go take it out on someone who fights back, if your man enough?

[Colapop]

Quite a lot of people still smack their kids over here and know the difference beween smacking and abuse. Yeah it would be great to never yell or smack or do anything that's negative with your kids but life aint like that. You'd have to be pretty damn saintly to be able to judge others.

[scumdog]

All those who smack their kids say "Yes".
All those who would belt a relative or a stranger for smacking YOUR kids say "Yes".
No difference, it's still inflicting pain, but you would probably go berserk if someone else slapped your kid(s).
It's a pathetic excuse to dominate your children through a lack of understanding and communication.
Remember when you got a slap from yer old man? Scary was'nt it! How can my Mum/Dad the people I trust and Love, cause me physical pain.

If you said yes to both? then your a hypocrite! Point is: No one has the right to smack any kids....Period.
Resort to violence with your kids, then you have failed miserably, earned no respect and just put fear into their tiny minds.

Besides......They will be bigger and stronger than you one day and then you'll be sorry!

Rad back on my post on the topic.
Yes, smacked my kids until they no longer behaved in a way that needed it and I could reason with them (about 4 years old or less)
Yeah, if I saw somebody smack my kid and they deserved it I'd not bat an eye.

My kids have a good relationship with me and now they're bigger I asked them about the smacking part of their upbringing and they commented that now they hardly remember it.

And thanks for telling me how to bring up my own kids, I'm sure they would have done better if I had followed that line of thought.

Note to self: Ask varsity boy and uber-geek if they reckon they could be better off if I had treated them differently.

[Hitcher]

I may be a "liberal one-percenter" but I didn't escape corporal punishment as a son or as a student.

My folks are great people and I don't love them any less for the paddlings I received. In fact I wonder how my Mum coped at times with a smart-arse son who tested the boundaries of authority in his own special way. As I got older, her arm weakened and it was Dad's job to mete out the sentence. "Mr Jam Spoon" was occasionally invited to the dinner table, but none of us was ever subject to his ministrations.

The only hiding I ever resented was at primary school when I was strapped for an offence I was not guilty of. On the hands. Six on each. Shit it hurt.

At high school, caning was largely a game. Teachers who caned well gained respect. Those who didn't probably caned their way to psychotherapy. Our class in the third form had one guy, let's call him "Brent" (cause it was his name) who was our designated mine canary. New teacher? Brent would be pinged for some offense that required application of the cane. "Pah! He was weaker than cold piss!" would generally result in all of the boys in the class lining up for cuts.

Our class had the same science teacher for forms three through five. One fifth-form day, after successfully calibrating the depth of a drain with test-tubes, the boys in the back row got to talking. "Has anybody here been caned by Onions?" There was a pause. Nobody had been. Hmmmm. "Does anybody know of anybody who has been caned by Onions?" Again nobody could remember. Obviously this dearth of knowledge required immediate resolution.

It was time to call Brent to action. A bit of teepol was squirted onto a gas tap and the tap turned on sufficiently to make an appropriate stack of foam. A match was then tossed nonchalently at the small mountain, instantly liberating its stored energy. Girls shrieked. It was marvellous. Brent had his hand in the air virtually simultaneously with Onions' enquiry as to the perpetrator and was summarily despatched to the staff room.

A few moments later Brent returned, looking somber and a strange shade of green. "How many did you get?" "Two," he replied. "Whooo, fuck!"

That was the last day of extracurricular amusement in the back row of fifth form science.

[Colapop]

Just a little addition to the subject of caning... I 'attended' sometimes regularly Wairoa College and we had a tacher by the name of Rangi Paku. No-one ever got the cane from him, until Jack Hautapa. Rangi had a habit of throwing the duster at people to get their attention. This particular day he trew it at Jack, and missed, but it got his attention so he turned back to the board. Jack picked up the duster and it hit Rangi square on the back of the head. Now this fella Jack was as big as Rangi and probably as strong too. Fark everything went silent... Rangi says "Corridor...., now" and grabs his cane - a sawn off bamboo golf club with rubber hand grip still attached. We listened and there were 4 real loud cracks. Jack comes back in and sits down real quiet ... and the lesson contiues. After class we all, of course, had to find out - just how good is he. That was the first and only time I've ever seen anyone have blood drawn. It was Mr Paku forever after that.

[ogr1]

Rad back on my post on the topic.
Yes, smacked my kids until they no longer behaved in a way that needed it and I could reason with them (about 4 years old or less)
Yeah, if I saw somebody smack my kid and they deserved it I'd not bat an eye.

My kids have a good relationship with me and now they're bigger I asked them about the smacking part of their upbringing and they commented that now they hardly remember it.

And thanks for telling me how to bring up my own kids, I'm sure they would have done better if I had followed that line of thought.

Note to self: Ask varsity boy and uber-geek if they reckon they could be better off if I had treated them differently.

Note to self: Don't try and engage reason with the locals, they post out a topic on the WWW, but get a tad tetchy when you put in your two penny worth.
Maybe that's the reason why society sucks "part time parents"? :wait:

[Ozzie]

.Maybe that's the reason why society sucks "part time parents"? :wait:

I will take the plung here, and risk it all, by saying, fuck you you small minded git!

Again, we aren't all perfect like you your worship, single parents, part time parents, I guarantee you, I make a way better parent than most of the full time parents. And what difference does it make to my ability that their mother is a useless cum rag?

[ogr1]

Hang on a feckin mo.....................
I'm not aware of your personal circumstances, you chose to reply to my post
and be abusive into the bargain, I may have got up your nose and a few others, but what the fuck do you expect when your practically boasting about slapping your kids.

Did you really think that you would not get an oppositional arguement from
another parent? Who's small minded now?

[scumdog]

Note to self: Don't try and engage reason with the locals, they post out a topic on the WWW, but get a tad tetchy when you put in your two penny worth.
Maybe that's the reason why society sucks "part time parents"? :wait:
Yeah well us antipodean neandrethals have some quaint ideas on parenting and at times they even work (like mine).
Each to their own - but don't preach.

And who,pray, was getting 'tetchy'?

[ogr1]

Yeah well us antipodean neandrethals have some quaint ideas on parenting and at times they even work (like mine).
Each to their own - but don't preach.

And who,pray, was getting 'tetchy'?

Errrrrrrrrrrrrm..................You?

[scumdog]

Errrrrrrrrrrrrm..................You?

Good, glad somebody told me, hadn't realised it myself.

Normally I'm fully aware (as is most of my surrounding area) when I AM tetchy.

[SuperDave]

"If the child is angry after the smack, you have not smacked hard enough"

Damn fucken right, and if the child persists and begins to cry then, yet again you are not smacking hard enough, you need to persist and keep smacking harder and harder until there is utter silence.

[Ozzie]

"If the child is angry after the smack, you have not smacked hard enough"

Damn fucken right, and if the child persists and begins to cry then, yet again you are not smacking hard enough, you need to persist and keep smacking harder and harder until there is utter silence.

Well said Dave, but I have to conceede, I strenuously disagree.

[scumdog]

"If the child is angry after the smack, you have not smacked hard enough"

Damn fucken right, and if the child persists and begins to cry then, yet again you are not smacking hard enough, you need to persist and keep smacking harder and harder until there is utter silence.

Kahui twins huh?

[The Stranger]

That about sums it up! Go take it out on someone who fights back, if your man enough?

Hmm you appear to confuse smacking with violence.
Smacking is not about violence it is about love.

Violence is child abuse, totally different kettle of fish.

[ogr1]

Say what?...........

[The Stranger]

Our house is currently having the to smack or not to smack debate (Kids 2f,9m,12f & 12m)

My instant answer has always been no smacking.



So did the debate end in you getting your way?

What did the kids have to say?

Ours opted for the smack, short sharp over and done, back on with life and sent a clear message.

They were confused by the rejection and hated the punishment dragging on, missed the computer and TV.

[The Stranger]

Say what?...........

Yip, my initial diagnoses was correct, you appear confused all right.

[Ozzie]

Hang on a feckin mo.....................
I'm not aware of your personal circumstances

You involved my personal circumstances when you generalised that the problem is caused by "Part time parents". (my profile and my first post make my circumstances clear)

Broken families can have a devastating effect on kids, and adults, but it is not the reason for child abuse.

IMHO, the reason for some of the bashings we see, could be a result of people building up frustration with the lack of adequate parenting techniques; the feeling they are powerless to effectively discipline their children, then one day, pow, they explode. Of course, there is also the people that just have no idea, and beat the shit out of everyone, kids, spouses, people at the pub, people that cut them off while driving, I doubt there is any helping those, except prison and castration.

The thing is, a lot of people smack, yet there are not many (comparatively) that abuse (physically at least), granted, the not many there are, are too many.

[Ozzie]

Add to that.....We are off topic.....

I think we both agree, the orginal start of this thread is terribly wrong. It is promoting abuse, and using the term "smacking" to make it ok. It is simply wrong, 15 minutes smacking is abuse, no confussion! Irrespective of who or what group says it is ok.

Have a nice day.

[emaN]

People! people!
When "one" comes across a post which "one" may find increasing "one's" blood pressure, may i suggest waiting to post "one's" reply? Perhaps even 'til the next day? Have a think, re-read the 'inflammatory' post, try & figure out what the person is 'trying' to say (sometimes they don't mean anything by it, it's just worded wrong)... take time!

Re the alleged "15 minute spanking session"; as i said on the 1st or 2nd page - nowhere could i find the organization involved condoning a smacking session lasting 15 minutes.

What they DO advocate is trying to communicate with the toddler/child/teenager and let them know how they're going to be disciplined and why. This is what the 15 minutes would all be about.

[XP@]

So did the debate end in you getting your way?

What did the kids have to say?

Ours opted for the smack, short sharp over and done, back on with life and sent a clear message.

They were confused by the rejection and hated the punishment dragging on, missed the computer and TV.

We are going the other way. I doled out 1 1/2 hours of early bed times to the older boys this morning. The little one has the naughty chair with stricter enforcement.

[The Stranger]

We are going the other way. I doled out 1 1/2 hours of early bed times to the older boys this morning. The little one has the naughty chair with stricter enforcement.

You miserable prick, a quick smack and it all would be over in 5 minutes.

Or 15 if you're a christian.

[emaN]

Or 15 if you're a christian.

:yawn:

(pls tell me you're "trawling")

[The Stranger]

:yawn:

(pls tell me you're "trawling")

No, just pre-empting a comeback, I already see what you are saying.

[emaN]

I already see what you are saying.

wikkid! someone who gets me!
can you tell my mrs how to do it?! :yes:

[The Stranger]

can you tell my mrs how to do it?! :yes:

Well yeah I can, but probably best if I demonstrate how it's done.

[DMNTD]

Sometimes most kids need a smack...at no time do kids need 15mins of physical punishment,ever!
I've smack all of my kids from an early age when it was required. They all respect me (no not from fear either),they do as they are told therefore get treated with much respect and get to do as they desire...IF deserving.
I'd definately step in and sort an adult that was wasting a kid...100%

[mstriumph]

............. No one has the right to smack any kids....Period.................
Besides......They will be bigger and stronger than you one day and then you'll be sorry!

understand your viewpoint but you seem to be confusing smacking with bullying.

smacking a tiny child's hand away as it reaches towards a hot stove and saying "no" isn't, IMO, the same as taking ones belt off and beating the child senseless with it

in the first instance, the intention is to educate .. to form the association in the infant's mind between the hot stove and pain but WITHOUT the damage associated with actually getting burnt .... done correctly it probably only needs to be done once - after that the word 'no' usually suffices

my 2c

[ogr1]

You involved my personal circumstances when you generalised that the problem is caused by "Part time parents". (my profile and my first post make my circumstances clear)

Broken families can have a devastating effect on kids, and adults, but it is not the reason for child abuse.

IMHO, the reason for some of the bashings we see, could be a result of people building up frustration with the lack of adequate parenting techniques; the feeling they are powerless to effectively discipline their children, then one day, pow, they explode. Of course, there is also the people that just have no idea, and beat the shit out of everyone, kids, spouses, people at the pub, people that cut them off while driving, I doubt there is any helping those, except prison and castration.

The thing is, a lot of people smack, yet there are not many (comparatively) that abuse (physically at least), granted, the not many there are, are too many.

I was'nt having a pop at you cause your a single parent, honest...........
I was generalizing about some parents being lazy and a quick smack is the answer to everything that they consider to be out of line.
I guess the thread pissed me off and I gave it a knee jerk reaction.
I bit and along came the responses, some true and some piss taking, though I'm not biting anymore.

If you guys thought I was being "Godly"? Well I was'nt and there was no "holy'er than thow" intended.

Cheers

Karl.