Another police memo [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

limbimtimwim

20th July 2006, 17:52

The gold nugget is:
The Marlborough memo advised staff that Operation Vanquish, targeting dishonesty and drug offending, had been cancelled, and Operation Life, targeting traffic offending, "is now the primary focus" until the end of the financial year on June 30.

"My sincerest thanks to everyone who participated and made a fantastic impact into Marlborough's crime scene and criminals, and my apologies for having to pull the plug early," the memo said.

http://stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3738413a10,00.html

I imagine most cops and most of the public find this to be a bit disappointing.

Colapop

20th July 2006, 17:54

I wonder if there are any 'people' on this site who may want to pass on some directives....
This is getting beyond a joke. No wonder the crims are getting badder.

kiwifruit

20th July 2006, 17:55

This is the District Commander's (Grant O'Fee) priority - everything else is secondary.

thats just scary

placidfemme

20th July 2006, 17:59

How can they continue to deny this after three leaked memo's...

Do they think the public are TOTALLY stupid?

terbang

20th July 2006, 18:07

Police in the Marlborough district were last month instructed their "first priority" was to issue a minimum of two traffic tickets each shift.

The June 6 memo, written by acting Area Commander Tony Sampson warned: "Failure to comply with this directive will be considered a performance issue.

"All supervisors are directed - not asked - directed to ensure that this occurs. This is quite simply what will happen - no excuses.

"This is the District Commander's (Grant O'Fee) priority - everything else is secondary."

Why do we have to put up with these fuckwits?
Letter on its way to my local MP.

inlinefour

20th July 2006, 18:15

Do they think the public are TOTALLY stupid?

I really think they do, along with the local council and NZ Government...

scumdog

20th July 2006, 18:18

How can they continue to deny this after three leaked memo's...

Do they think the public are TOTALLY stupid?

Shit yeah, most KBers can't ride AND watch their speedo at the same time!!

(p/t)

Ixion

20th July 2006, 18:19

..
Operation Life, targeting traffic offending, "is now the primary focus" until the end of the financial year on June 30.

Until the end of the financial year. Now, anyone want to reckon that's NOT revenue gathering. In the most literal sense of the term

Issuing tickets solely for the sake of the income. Also makes a total nonsense of the claims that the Police have no interest in the revenue. Clearly, they do.

placidfemme

20th July 2006, 18:22

Does the money from the tickets go to the police force?

If not where does it go?

Sparky Bills

20th July 2006, 18:27

Pure Ignorance really!

boomer

20th July 2006, 18:37

Shit yeah, most KBers can't ride AND watch their speedo at the same time!!

(p/t)

theres no way i can do that AND look out for the pigs... you must have too many chromosomes if you can multi task like that!!!!!!!

hilarious.. Operation 'life'.. they should of named it Operation 'Lux lucis rapina' What a waste of my hard earned cash!!!!

scumdog

20th July 2006, 18:42

Until the end of the financial year. Now, anyone want to reckon that's NOT revenue gathering. In the most literal sense of the term

Issuing tickets solely for the sake of the income. Also makes a total nonsense of the claims that the Police have no interest in the revenue. Clearly, they do.

Lets get it in perspective: about a third or so of my tickets generate NO income - they're 'compliance' tickets for worn tyre, no headlight etc.

But my bitch is the hours it takes the troops off crime to get those tickets.

WINJA

20th July 2006, 18:50

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 18:52

Lets get it in perspective: about a third or so of my tickets generate NO income - they're 'compliance' tickets for worn tyre, no headlight etc.

But my bitch is the hours it takes the troops off crime to get those tickets.

Good point sir....amazing no fines for bald tyre.....can be as dangerous as speeding and other fineable offences.

But if this memo is genuine the force is silly to even issue memo's after previous media stuff.

scumdog

20th July 2006, 18:59

Good point sir....amazing no fines for bald tyre.....can be as dangerous as speeding and other fineable offences.

But if this memo is genuine the force is silly to even issue memo's after previous media stuff.

The 'incentive' of getting off the ticket if they fit another tyre (gotta bring a reciept) makes them do it.

Give 'em a plain $150 ticket and they drive off - and keep driving on the worn tyre and don't get another tyre.

terbang

20th July 2006, 19:01

scumdog

20th July 2006, 19:01

SHOULDNT THE TROOPS REVOLT THEN , OR ARE YOU ALL SPINELESS RETARDS

We're all spineless retards, that's all the effort you're going to get from us for the pay you give us, why should we worry about doing any different, hard effort don't pay the bills:nono:

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 19:05

[QUOTE=scumdog]The 'incentive' of getting off the ticket if they fit another tyre (gotta bring a reciept) makes them do it.

Give 'em a plain $150 ticket and they drive off - and keep driving on the worn tyre and don't get another tyre.[/QUOTE

Makes sense............thank you.....so if you do don't fine speeders do you think they will fix it?? Our survey said........er...er...er..er....sorry couldn't resist that once......

scumdog

20th July 2006, 19:27

Orang Babi tidak bagus..!

Orang Babi yang baik!!:yes: :nya: i

terbang

20th July 2006, 19:33

Pak Tony Sampson dan Pak Grant O'Fee

eliot-ness

20th July 2006, 19:47

Todays local paper report. Parakai residents are complaining that they get no response when they complain that gangs of youths are terrorising the area.
Rodney's Chief Police Inspector explains. Quote. "Staff deployed in Parakai have to be taken away from other areas where there is a high risk of crashes. we certainly wouldn't want to put peoples lives at risk in other high risk areas."

Presumably the poice know when and where these crashes are going to occur and so are there in force waiting to close the road and direct traffic.

He doesn't agree with the argument that the problem has to be solved by more police enforcement. "The police should be in the area to stop crimes" he says. Not to clear up community differences"

No doubt the local community will be pleased to know that the possibility of an accident takes priority over an ongoing gang problem which is after all "only a community difference"

kiwifruit

20th July 2006, 19:49

We're all spineless retards, that's all the effort you're going to get from us for the pay you give us, why should we worry about doing any different, hard effort don't pay the bills:nono:

ratshit attitude man
you should be someone we respect

sels1

20th July 2006, 20:13

How can they continue to deny this after three leaked memo's...

Yes the constant denials dont do anything for their credibility. Hardly the level of honesty you expect police management. Cant be good for the morale of the troops.

Karma

20th July 2006, 20:32

SHOULDNT THE TROOPS REVOLT THEN , OR ARE YOU ALL SPINELESS RETARDS

Shouldn't you write to your MP, or are you a loudmouth retard?

WINJA

20th July 2006, 20:42

Shouldn't you write to your MP, or are you a loudmouth retard?
WHY WOULD I WRITE MY MP YOU FUCKTARD , THE POLICY IN THIS CASE IS HANDED DOWN BY THE AREA COMMANDER WHO IS NOT A POLITICIAN , THE POLICE AT THE TOP AND THE PIGS ON THE COAL FACE ARE THE ONES THAT CAN MAKE A DIIFERENCE , POLITICINANS ALMOST HAVE AN UNWRITTEN RULE THAT NO ONE WILL USE TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT IN ANY ELECTOROL POLICY SO ITS A WASTE OF PAPER ANYWAY, AS IVE SAID BEFORE THE GUYS THROWING JEWS INTO THE GAS CHAMBERS WERE JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS TOO, USE SEEM A BIT TOUCHY ABOUT THE PIG ISSUES IS YOUR DAD A PIG OR SOMETHING OR IS HE JUST A HOPELESS LOSER LIKE YOU

scumdog

20th July 2006, 20:45

ratshit attitude man
you should be someone we respect

Hey, it was meant for WINJA!!

Ignore it.

Karma

20th July 2006, 21:03

WHY WOULD I WRITE MY MP YOU FUCKTARD , THE POLICY IN THIS CASE IS HANDED DOWN BY THE AREA COMMANDER WHO IS NOT A POLITICIAN , THE POLICE AT THE TOP AND THE PIGS ON THE COAL FACE ARE THE ONES THAT CAN MAKE A DIIFERENCE

Wrong

POLITICINANS ALMOST HAVE AN UNWRITTEN RULE THAT NO ONE WILL USE TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT IN ANY ELECTOROL POLICY SO ITS A WASTE OF PAPER ANYWAY

Sure, because it's not like the police report to the government or anything

AS IVE SAID BEFORE THE GUYS THROWING JEWS INTO THE GAS CHAMBERS WERE JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS TOO

So, traffic enforcement = genocide? You know what the holocaust was about right?

USE SEEM A BIT TOUCHY ABOUT THE PIG ISSUES IS YOUR DAD A PIG OR SOMETHING OR IS HE JUST A HOPELESS LOSER LIKE YOU

I'm not touchy about the police issues in particular, just the fact that all your comments seem to be derogatory crap. Come up with a practical solution and I might respect your opinion, until then you're just the same as all the other loudmouth winers.

From what I can see you are the one shouting loudest about any and all police issues, but we've never heard what you do for a living... travelling salesman? taxi driver? What makes you hate them so much?

WINJA

20th July 2006, 21:21

who cares what i do for a living , taxi driving and travelling sales man are ok profeesions as is working at mcds or pumping gas , why would you even bring up these types of employment do you think your superior to these people

Karma

20th July 2006, 21:23

WINJA

20th July 2006, 21:32

I think I'm superior to everyone, but that's just because I'm a dick... I can handle that.

Point I'm trying to make is that it's easy to shout your mouth off about shit, but doing something about it is something else.
ONLY SMART THING YOUVE EVER SAID , YES YOU ARE A DICK.
I HAVE DONE SOMETHING ABOUT IT , I DO RUNNERS

Karma

20th July 2006, 21:36

ONLY SMART THING YOUVE EVER SAID , YES YOU ARE A DICK.

Thanks, love you too.

I HAVE DONE SOMETHING ABOUT IT , I DO RUNNERS

And you don't think that doing that only gives them the ammo they need to come down harder on motorists / bikers?

I speed from time to time, and if I get caught doing it then I'll stop and take my hit.

If you don't want to get fines, don't do anything illegal.

Patrick

20th July 2006, 21:44

SHOULDNT THE TROOPS REVOLT THEN , OR ARE YOU ALL SPINELESS RETARDS
You pay my wage, then I will revolt...

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 21:48

Doesnt look good.

There is a quota i just dont see why they dont come out and say it.

Its important to keep record of how many tickets traffic cops are issuing out, otherwise they could just sit around the office all day. There are not many other ways to measure their performance.

There is definatley too strong of a focus on traffic at the expense of general duty work, that is a terrible disgrace.

In saying that cops only issue tickets to people who are speeding, the person speeding created the situation not the cop.

I think that people will be happy being policed for traffic as most people see it is needed as long as general duty policing is also properly attended.

Most people realise that speed kills,as does drink driving.

Fair points.....I agree that it is the person who speeds etc but as I have said in other posts, the Govt allow us to buy vehicles, for which they receive revenue in the form of Income Tax from vendor and GST from us, which easily exceed the speed limits set by the Govt............if the Govt really wanted to make roads safer etc then they should stop us buying vehicles that can do more than 100kph.....so the question is who really creates the situation.

Hey how about like with Diesel vehicles with RUC, motorcycles pay a SUC..Speed User Charge based on cc size. Then everyone wins...Govt get their revenue and we have fun..the Police get less grief, Lou and gang have less to say and the Police will have more resources to fight crime...and the reality is that the incidents of speed related accident will not change.

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 21:49

The 'incentive' of getting off the ticket if they fit another tyre (gotta bring a reciept) makes them do it.

Give 'em a plain $150 ticket and they drive off - and keep driving on the worn tyre and don't get another tyre.

I realised that.......................

Ixion

20th July 2006, 21:50

Lets get it in perspective: about a third or so of my tickets generate NO income - they're 'compliance' tickets for worn tyre, no headlight etc.

But my bitch is the hours it takes the troops off crime to get those tickets.

Well done that man, have an orang-utan. Compliance tickets are a very good thing, they eliminate a problem instead of just penalising it.

But in the context of this matter, the fact that they generate no value is irrelevant. It is ticket NUMBERS that LTSA want not value.

The reason is (which also answers Ms Plaicidfemme's question about who gets the money from tickets) is that LTSA fund the police force. The government gives the LTSA X million dollars, LTSA hand it on to the police. But, the money comes with strings attached. LTSA say, "this dosh is to fund X hours of cops giving out speeding tickets " (in much more indirect language of course). And the LTSA want to know that the cops are delivering what they're paid for.

But, it's hard , impractical, for the LTSA to actually measure how many hours the police spend chasing down speeding motorists. So, they measure the result in tickets. I believe it's at a rate of one ticket per hour.

So, the X million dollars from the lTSA funds Y number of hours of speed enforcement. To prove the Y hours are being out in, the police have to produce to the LTSA Y number of tickets issued (not literally produce of course).

In this case, the Top Cop was worried that he didn't have enough tickets issued to balance his books by year end.

But, there is a financial feedback also. The X million dollars comes from the government. The government don't just hand money out willy nilly. LTSA have to produce an operating statement (they may call it something different). This sets out how much money the LTSA is going to spend

So, the government accountants say "Hm, So much for this, so much for that, X million for the cops, so much for t'other. Total debits, $$$". Then they set against that the value of credit revenue generated by LTSA - driver's licence fees, Rego fees RUC etc tec. And "OK, now credit the value of enforcement proceedings (fines) $$$$". Any shortfall (excess of debits over credits) has to be met from taxation revenue. Which is a Bad Thing at the Treasury. But, conversely, if credits exceed debits (because of lots of fines) then the government will be more willing to give the LTSA more money to fund more police enforcement activity.

So, to answer the question, where does the money go? It goes into a money-go-round; paid to the Consolidated Fund, but separately accounted; thence credited aginst LTSA debits (I imagine only a portion is credited - and government accounting is of course vastly more sophisticated than this crude description); then returned to LTSA as part of Vote Transport; then paid to the police, to buy speeding tickets.

So, indirectly, more tickets does mean more money for the police. Hence, Top Cop's insistence that the ticket numbers must be gotten up to budget.

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 21:52

ONLY SMART THING YOUVE EVER SAID , YES YOU ARE A DICK.
I HAVE DONE SOMETHING ABOUT IT , I DO RUNNERS

At least he admits to being a dick..which he isn't having met him.......you are a dick for doing a runner because you potentially put others in danger and it does give us a bad name.

terbang

20th July 2006, 21:55

If you don't want to get fines, don't do anything illegals

.

We all know that point and its relatively undisputed. I think the issue that upsets most here is that the policing has become an encouraged method of revenue collecting while there is fear that general crime duties may be neglected as a result. Now I dont see cops as money grabbers they are just the indians (not you JSG), however when it comes to money grabbing...well we all know the government likes to do that and yet they deny it (show me a polly that doesnt lie). There are some good points here, WINJA has made one, that perhaps the indians should offer some feedback to their superiors and so on (leak a few more memos guys). The more pressure on the Pollies the more the media dig it up, the more mud gets slung and some of it will stick and there are things called elections. The revenue collecting is here to stay, if you cant afford to pay it, then ride like apropriatly, however it is the lack of rescource or responsibility in the general crime area that we need to keep a good eye on.

Patrick

20th July 2006, 21:58

WHY WOULD I WRITE MY MP YOU FUCKTARD , THE POLICY IN THIS CASE IS HANDED DOWN BY THE AREA COMMANDER WHO IS NOT A POLITICIAN ,

Prolly cant write... but that last piece above was really funny. A Tui moment even...

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 22:01

We all know that point and its relatively undisputed. I think the issue that upsets most here is that the policing has become an encouraged method of revenue collecting while there is fear that general crime duties may be neglected as a result. Now I dont see cops as money grabbers they are just the indians (not you JSG), however when it comes to money grabbing...well we all know the government likes to do that and yet they deny it (show me a polly that doesnt lie). There are some good points here, WINJA has made one, that perhaps the indians should offer some feedback to their superiors and so on (leak a few more memos guys). The more pressure on the Pollies the more the media dig it up, the more mud gets slung and some of it will stick and there are things called elections. The revenue collecting is here to stay, if you cant afford to pay it, then ride like apropriatly, however it is the lack of rescource or responsibility in the general crime area that we need to keep a good eye on.

In an ideal world, however, it is not easy to make waves at work, you would have to have a majority of cops saying something and like us they all have to pay for mortgages etc and how many of us would make that sacrifice.
So okay someone will say that cops should leave but then that has the obvious negative effect.
The Govt will do whatever they want to do at the end of the day and I doubt any Govt will listen to media hype about leaked memo' cause Govts are good at getting out of things.

WINJA

20th July 2006, 22:03

At least he admits to being a dick..which he isn't having met him.......you are a dick for doing a runner because you potentially put others in danger and it does give us a bad name.
YOUR THE FAG WHO LOST HIS LICENCE , HOW MANY LAWS DID YOU BREAK HYPOCRITE

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 22:03

Definitions of politician on the Web:

a leader engaged in civil administration

Does this include the Police Commander......??

scumdog

20th July 2006, 22:05

I DO RUNNERS

So you fix athletes shoes? Or do you work in the gut floor of the freezing works?:confused:

terbang

20th July 2006, 22:06

In an ideal world, however, it is not easy to make waves at work, you would have to have a majority of cops saying something and like us they all have to pay for mortgages etc and how many of us would make that sacrifice.
So okay someone will say that cops should leave but then that has the obvious negative effect.
The Govt will do whatever they want to do at the end of the day and I doubt any Govt will listen to media hype about leaked memo' cause Govts are good at getting out of things.

Oh well off to anarchy we go then..

scumdog

20th July 2006, 22:09

[QUOTE= that perhaps the indians should offer some feedback to their superiors and so on (leak a few more memos guys). [/QUOTE]

They get feedback and they know alright.

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 22:09

YOUR THE FAG WHO LOST HIS LICENCE , HOW MANY LAWS DID YOU BREAK HYPOCRITE

I was waiting for that......if you read my posts you will see that I have never complained about tickets so I am not a hypocrite. I accept the Law but guess you do not if you do runners because you have broken the law.

I just add things into the pot which is what Trollers do.

I accept the loss of my licence without issue WINJA.....unlike you I am not 'bigger than jesus'........however, it has taught me a lesson and I am happy to admit that....

It is how you react that is important.

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 22:10

Oh well off to anarchy we go then..

Okay then......................

Karma

20th July 2006, 22:11

YOUR THE FAG WHO LOST HIS LICENCE , HOW MANY LAWS DID YOU BREAK HYPOCRITE

Good well argued response.

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 22:11

So you fix athletes shoes? Or do you work in the gut floor of the freezing works?:confused:

Nah probably does runners down the loo..............that is why he never gets caught............gas mask please!!!!

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 22:12

Good well argued response.

Can I complain about the fag bit??

WINJA

20th July 2006, 22:13

I was waiting for that......if you read my posts you will see that I have never complained about tickets so I am not a hypocrite. I accept the Law but guess you do not if you do runners because you have broken the law.

I just add things into the pot which is what Trollers do.

I accept the loss of my licence without issue WINJA.....unlike you I am not 'bigger than jesus'........however, it has taught me a lesson and I am happy to admit that....

It is how you react that is important.
THE POINT IS YOU BROKE THE LAW FAG BOY SO HOW ARE YOU DIFFERENT TO ME DOING RUNNERS WE'RE BOTH DANGEROUS

WINJA

20th July 2006, 22:15

Can I complain about the fag bit??
NO CAUSE THATS 50% OF MY ARGUEMENT AND ITS AN ACCURATE DESCRIPTION OF YOU

Karma

20th July 2006, 22:15

Can I complain about the fag bit??

Should have been more clear, it was sarcastic.

Karma

20th July 2006, 22:16

NO CAUSE THATS 50% OF MY ARGUEMENT AND ITS AN ACCURATE DESCRIPTION OF YOU

Having seen the pictures of your dog, aren't you the annoying guy from Queer Eye for the Stright Guy?

Patrick

20th July 2006, 22:17

Can I complain about the fag bit??

Does he smoke cigarettes???

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 22:17

THE POINT IS YOU BROKE THE LAW FAG BOY SO HOW ARE YOU DIFFERENT TO ME DOING RUNNERS WE'RE BOTH DANGEROUS

Mmmm..well each time I was stopped the cop said that I was not riding dangerously. Only 2 were for speed doing 130kph up North.

I would say that doing a runner is more dangerous, you would probably need to exceed 130kph and if caught 'Dangerouse' would be just one of the descriptions.

Guess there is a difference, plus unlike you who does a runner, I accept my punishment whereas you do not because you do a runner......

terbang

20th July 2006, 22:18

THE POINT IS YOU BROKE THE LAW FAG BOY SO HOW ARE YOU DIFFERENT TO ME DOING RUNNERS WE'RE BOTH DANGEROUS

Gotta agree there breaking the law is breaking the law and speeding is dangerous whether its just fanging it a bit or doing a runner it can have the same result.

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 22:20

NO CAUSE THATS 50% OF MY ARGUEMENT AND ITS AN ACCURATE DESCRIPTION OF YOU

Do you recall the advert on TV when the guy doing the exam is late and told he cannot submit his paper and the guy says to the examiner "do you know me"..examiner says "No" so the guy slips his paper into the pile.

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 22:21

Should have been more clear, it was sarcastic.

You were trolled.....................

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 22:22

Gotta agree there breaking the law is breaking the law and speeding is dangerous whether its just fanging it a bit or doing a runner it can have the same result.

Runners must be more dangerous cause you are in panic mode and more than just fanging it....I also agree that breaking law is breaking the law

boomer

20th July 2006, 22:24

Breaking the law is breaking the law.. other wise its all a sham!

and weasel.. you got a few more years yet mate before they lower the time limit to enable you to run that far :nya:

terbang

20th July 2006, 22:24

Thanks grahamee now I feel better, I was doing 280Kays the other nite and wasn't doing a runner and didnt get caught.. I must be safe like you.. Actually I may even be safer because I didnt get caught..

Whats that old saying...Umm
"The pot calling the kettle black"

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 22:27

Thanks grahamee now I feel better, lI was doing 280Kays the other nite and wasn't doing a runner and didnt get caught.. I must be safe like you..

Whats that old saying...Umm
"The pot calling the kettle black"

Fair call............................but I was just differentiating between fanging it and doing a runner.

WINJA

20th July 2006, 22:28

Runners must be more dangerous cause you are in panic mode and more than just fanging it....I also agree that breaking law is breaking the law
YES YOUD PANIC BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN I WOULD, WHY ARE THEY MORE DANGEROUS CAUSE YOU SAY SO ? WTF DO YOU KNOW ? FUCK ALL CAUSE YOU BLEW YOUR LICENCE AT LEAST I KEPT MINE NOT JUST CAUSE I DONT STOP BUT CAUSE I CHOOSE WHERE I SPEED AND GENERALLY WHERE I SPEED IS WHERE THE ARE NO PEOPLE AND WHERE THERE ARE NO PEOPLE THERE ARE USUALLY NO COPS , YOU NEED TO PICK YOUR BATTLES DILDO FAGGINS

Swoop

20th July 2006, 22:30

Having seen the pictures of your dog, aren't you the annoying guy from Queer Eye for the Stright Guy?
You gotta be more specific... they are all annoying.

boomer

20th July 2006, 22:34

....DILDO FAGGINS
Bling for no other reason thats fekin funny!

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 22:35

YES YOUD PANIC BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN I WOULD, WHY ARE THEY MORE DANGEROUS CAUSE YOU SAY SO ? WTF DO YOU KNOW ? FUCK ALL CAUSE YOU BLEW YOUR LICENCE AT LEAST I KEPT MINE NOT JUST CAUSE I DONT STOP BUT CAUSE I CHOOSE WHERE I SPEED AND GENERALLY WHERE I SPEED IS WHERE THE ARE NO PEOPLE AND WHERE THERE ARE NO PEOPLE THERE ARE USUALLY NO COPS , YOU NEED TO PICK YOUR BATTLES DILDO FAGGINS

I was just giving my view, not 'cause I say so'......and then you tell me to pick my battles cause you say so...I am just having fun and enjoying the freedom of speech

I had a clean licence for 25 years, 6 in this country and just got complacent on a familiar road where I had not seen cops before, there are no people and time caught up.....I am not bothered but you seem more bothered about it than I do...........I have a limited licence to drive car so no real life dramas for me................

Grahameeboy

20th July 2006, 22:36

Bling for no other reason thats fekin funny!

Yeah it was funny....I can see a spoof for Lord of The Rings being made..

WINJA

20th July 2006, 22:42

Yeah it was funny....I can see a spoof for Lord of The Rings being made..
IT IS FUNNY AND BEST OF ALL IT BURNS A FUCKEN BIG HOLE IN YOU CAUSE ITS TRUE , I CAN HAVE A GAY LOOKING DOG BUT ITS YOU THAT LIKES THE COCK AND THATS WHAT MAKES YOU A HOMO

Karma

20th July 2006, 22:44

IT IS FUNNY AND BEST OF ALL IT BURNS A FUCKEN BIG HOLE IN YOU CAUSE ITS TRUE , I CAN HAVE A GAY LOOKING DOG BUT ITS YOU THAT LIKES THE COCK AND THATS WHAT MAKES YOU A HOMO

You seem to go on about the gay thing an awful lot there Winja.

You a reluctant cock blower? you like fudge packing? got fantasys about going down on a guy?

Pancakes

20th July 2006, 22:44

Got complacent? On a thou? Man, I don't even know what to say. How the hell do you not speed on a thou and it sounds like you weren't "ahead of the curve" when you got caught dreaming along on two wheels. I like the feeling of riding over 100k's on a closed track or private road only of course and could imagine it would be as enjoyable on the street.

spudchucka

20th July 2006, 22:49

Until the end of the financial year. Now, anyone want to reckon that's NOT revenue gathering.
No its not. How many times do I have to explain this.

Its about the way the police are funded and expected to operate as a business. In one sense though it is about revenue gathering, revenue the police receive from other agencies, money that they need to put cops out on the streets.

The reason that it mentions the end of the financial year is that all the police stats etc get closed off at that time. If the area commander has to explain why his area has under delivered on contracted traffic enforcement hours then he is not going to be a happy chap and his operating budget for the following year is likely to be reduced. Furthermore he probably won't be getting his big fat bonus if he doesn't meet the targets set by those that give him their money.

Its not about the tickets, its about the hours delivered and therefore the money they receive to operate, but they won't let a cop deliver an hour of traffic enforcement without having a ticket to show for it. So, consequently they are telling their troops to issue tickets, because thats what they need to do in order to achieve the contracted hours and get their money that they need to operate.

Pancakes

20th July 2006, 22:55

One of the issues I have is speed limits. The people who can change things don't because then they're name is top of the blame list if someone dies. I recon a no nonsense max of 40k's around schools, 60 on suburban streets, 75 to 95 on those highway/connecting type roads and from 100 to 130 on the highway. I never got why there was a 10 leniency or whatever. What about roads that have peole on footpaths and kids around being suitably posted and motorways built, maintained and properly fenced so 120k cruising speed around the country is fine? I know a chick who never speeds and never knows whats going on around her either. The question really comes back to you, am I in control? Not to your mates but do I have this situation all accounted for and contingency plans for when the shit hits the fan? When we have the balls to hit drunks at parties up for their keys and to encourage annoying kids to get some track time or to take learner car drivers onto a skid pan so they don't panic at the first loss of traction we are helping the situation. No-one wants to die, be killed, kill someone else or have a loved one minced but it pisses me off when the genuine concern of the public gets taken by cops and used as an excuse to ticket like crazy. Going on police training does change people heaps and creates an us and them mentality. Go to bed everyone. Make sure your minds on-it for splitting to work tomorrow.

Ixion

20th July 2006, 22:56

See my later post. Tis still revenue gathering. To satisfy "the targets set by those who give him their money" .

The fundamental point, which is what bugs people, is that Top cop wasn't telling people to issue tickets because he was worried about safety. He was telling people to issue tickets cos he was worried about justifying the money . As you yourself just said.

Which makes a nonesense of police claims that speeding enforcement is about saefty.

Jantar

20th July 2006, 22:56

scumdog

20th July 2006, 22:57

IT IS FUNNY AND BEST OF ALL IT BURNS A FUCKEN BIG HOLE IN YOU CAUSE ITS TRUE , I CAN HAVE A GAY LOOKING DOG BUT ITS YOU THAT LIKES THE COCK AND THATS WHAT MAKES YOU A HOMO

Me thinketh he doth protest too much.

Is being a homo meant to be something wrong or make you a lesser human being??
Does it make you ride slower?
Does it make you have a smaller financial income?
Most puzzled by all this negative gay bashing comment coming from you....

spudchucka

20th July 2006, 23:01

See my later post. Tis still revenue gathering. To satisfy "the targets set by those who give him their money" .
From the area commanders point of view it is all about the hours delivered. He wouldn't care at all what the dollar value of each ticket was, only that each ticket represents one hour of contracted traffic enforcement, which he is accountable for.

Pancakes

20th July 2006, 23:01

Hey Gramee, I've gota plan. I'll swap you my 250 V twin for your Thou V twin. It's win win really. You don't want to speed and I like to perform overtaking manuevers safely by taking as little time to do them as possible. PM me and I'll pick the SV up on Saturday.

Ixion

20th July 2006, 23:04

From the area commanders point of view it is all about the hours delivered. He wouldn't care at all what the dollar value of each ticket was, only that each ticket represents one hour of contracted traffic enforcement, which he is accountable for.

Granted. which is why i commented that Mr Scumdogs compliance tickets would be equally valuable for the purpose. In this respect, a ticket is a ticket.

Pancakes

20th July 2006, 23:04

Wouldn't a timesheet prove hours and a ticket prove someone got ticketed? Stop me if I'm wrong here, if you only get two tickets do you only get paid for two hours? Double the tickets and double the pay. Sputato-flinger, You made sense in every other thread I've read of yours but that one reeks of "company line". Did I say company?

spudchucka

20th July 2006, 23:06

There are many ways that an Area Commander can prove traffic hours without using ticket numbers. Items like vehicle log books, officers time sheets, rosters etc. But these methods don't collect revenue.

If all drivers are obeying the law, an officer could be rostered on traffic duty 8 hours a day, 365 days a year, and yet by the ticket count he couldn't prove a single hour of traffic duty. Unless.......
Paragraph 1:

No! The traffic hours delivered are measured from the police officers time sheets only. The cop can still put down hours delivered on his / her time sheets but if they don't have tickets lying alongside the hours then they will get a please explain from the boss.

Paragraph 2:
Yes! As road users please addopt this approach immediately.

Ixion

20th July 2006, 23:07

The LTSA , alas, are awake to the fact that timesheets are invariably , in every industry, classified as works of fiction. Tickets however, are an unarguable number.

spudchucka

20th July 2006, 23:08

Granted. which is why i commented that Mr Scumdogs compliance tickets would be equally valuable for the purpose. In this respect, a ticket is a ticket.
Correct, but you can't give compliance for speeding or running a red light. What are you meant to do, give them a notice ordering them to stop twice at the next one?

spudchucka

20th July 2006, 23:17

The LTSA , alas, are awake to the fact that timesheets are invariably , in every industry, classified as works of fiction. Tickets however, are an unarguable number.
Police bosses make issuing one ticket per hour of traffic enforcement a staff performance measure and contracted hours are linked to operational funding, thats the "Quota".

Cops put an hour of traffic on their time sheets when they have a ticket to show for their hour. This in itself is inherently dishonest becasue the reality is that cops are doing traffic enforcement every time they are on the road in a marked police car. Even just the presence of the police car alters driver behaviour, isn't this simple act enforcing road rules? Shouldn't it be accounted for on police time sheets?

Of course it should but it isn't because it doesn't generate a ticket, something measurable that can be used to show the people holding the purse strings that we are good bastards and are doing what we were contracted to do.

The reality is that cops do traffic enforcemnet whenever they are mobile but we can't show that on our time sheets. The whole thing just comes down to bean counters controlling the way we police.

Jantar

20th July 2006, 23:21

.... The whole thing just comes down to bean counters controlling the way we police.

Exactly. In other words. REVENUE COLLECTING.

scumdog

20th July 2006, 23:27

Everybody has side-stepped the point that if we make sure our vehicles have no defects and drive properly then we have nothing much to worry about eh?.

And a point here: I probably have one of the higher 'compliance' ticket counts here - but nobody has ever bailed me up about the lack of revenue I'm dragging in, they don't care as long as my contact rate is where they think it should be for the hours worked.

How come nobody gets onto ACC to stop funding Police ergo stop Police chasing their 'quota'?????

Grahameeboy

21st July 2006, 06:42

IT IS FUNNY AND BEST OF ALL IT BURNS A FUCKEN BIG HOLE IN YOU CAUSE ITS TRUE , I CAN HAVE A GAY LOOKING DOG BUT ITS YOU THAT LIKES THE COCK AND THATS WHAT MAKES YOU A HOMO

Fair call...........................:rockon:

Grahameeboy

21st July 2006, 06:44

Grahameeboy

21st July 2006, 06:46

Does he smoke cigarettes???

No, guys apparantly..............

Grahameeboy

21st July 2006, 06:47

Police bosses make issuing one ticket per hour of traffic enforcement a staff performance measure and contracted hours are linked to operational funding, thats the "Quota".

Cops put an hour of traffic on their time sheets when they have a ticket to show for their hour. This in itself is inherently dishonest becasue the reality is that cops are doing traffic enforcement every time they are on the road in a marked police car. Even just the presence of the police car alters driver behaviour, isn't this simple act enforcing road rules? Shouldn't it be accounted for on police time sheets?

Of course it should but it isn't because it doesn't generate a ticket, something measurable that can be used to show the people holding the purse strings that we are good bastards and are doing what we were contracted to do.

The reality is that cops do traffic enforcemnet whenever they are mobile but we can't show that on our time sheets. The whole thing just comes down to bean counters controlling the way we police.

I reckon that covers the issue..........

Grahameeboy

21st July 2006, 07:00

Exactly. In other words. REVENUE COLLECTING.

I guess it is no different to Income Tax..we work, we pay taxes, we speed we stand a chance of getting a ticket.....we want nice clothes we have to pay for them...............life's dusty path.......the Police are not the only revenue collectors.....don't see any threads about people who work for Inland Revenue, where does it end, lets complain about petrol station attendents and tell them to hassle BP to reduce price of petrol...........all they are doing is earning a crust just like the Police are and the only difference is that they are more exposed to abuse because it is easier.............I wish some of you guys looked around you and made this much fuss about more important issues.............yep I lost my licence cause I ride a motorbike and was having fun..in my case it is my release ............I know I am not a hoon but as Pancake said, I ride a 1000cc motorbike so it is easy to get complacent and none of us here can say we do not have fun on our bikes.....3 tickets in 27 years ain't bad and just one accident...

Anyway, the Police do a bloody good job in difficult circumstances.......and the Bikercops on this site deserve better.

spudchucka

21st July 2006, 07:57

Exactly. In other words. REVENUE COLLECTING.
I've explained the ins and outs of it. If you still think it is soley about the $$$ value of the tickets issued then I'm wasting my time here.

Finn

21st July 2006, 08:43

Congratulations NZ. It appears the only thing NZ is good at anymore is failure. What a shithole.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10392281

Blackbird

21st July 2006, 08:56

I normally refrain from commenting on speeding and ticketing issues because it’s a circular argument which only results in everyone getting pissed off and life is too short for that. It also ends up with personal attacks on individual members of the police which by and large, are unwarranted.

I’ll cheerfully admit that I speed on the open road but choose the time and place and don’t ride like a twat with other traffic about. If I do get nailed by the law in these circumstances, I can’t whinge too much. Maybe it’s my age showing!

However, my biggest bitch is scenarios such as overtaking slower traffic. I guess like most people on KB, I like to get back on my side of the road as quickly as possible. Looking at the speedo is the last thing I do whilst overtaking although I know that I’m often well over the limit whilst doing so. I’ve had one or two close calls with patrol cars suddenly appearing from the other direction and is the major reason I bought a radar detector. Overtaking quickly and safely would seem a sensible thing to do, despite some of the speeds being in breach of the law.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that the “quota” (dress it up any way you like) tends to lessen the discretionary aspect of policing speed limits because it’s a key performance indicator in the job spec and that’s a real shame. Lou Giradin’s quote of “Speed doesn’t kill people, stupidity kills people” is never more apt. A lot of us have kpi’s which have a direct impact on our pay or career prospects and it’s no different in this case. I have a fair bit of sympathy for cops as individuals in this respect and personal attacks are playing the man, not the ball.

Well, that’s my one and only rant on this subject! :scooter:

Squeak the Rat

21st July 2006, 09:10

Man I've missed 7 pages of police bashing....

(p/t).

The thing that is starting to annoy me about this whole debacle is the refusal of the top brass and politicians to say "yes NZ, that is exactly what we are doing".

Instead it is arguments based purely on semantics. We don't care whether it's a quota or a performance target. We don't care if it's a police led directive or one from the government. The fact is that NZ'ers are pissed off that the system prioritises traffic offenses over other crime.

If the top cops can't tell us the TRUTH, then who the hell can we trust in this country?

ps - if the cops are starting to leak all these memos, does this mean the police are revolting? :rofl: (p/t again) :innocent:

Finn

21st July 2006, 09:20

The thing that is starting to annoy me about this whole debacle is the refusal of the top brass and politicians to say "yes NZ, that is exactly what we are doing".

If this Government told us exactly what there are doing they would all be lynched. Being deceitful and relying on the ignorance and lack of intelligence of the average kiwi is much easier.

scumdog

21st July 2006, 09:27

ps - if the cops are starting to leak all these memos, does this mean the police are revolting? :rofl: (p/t again) :innocent:

No, some of us police are rather nice actually!!:nya:

Swoop

21st July 2006, 09:32

The fact is that NZ'ers are pissed off that the system prioritises traffic offenses over other crime.

If the top cops can't tell us the TRUTH, then who the hell can we trust in this country?
This is exactly what the higher levels of the police and the politicians are refusing to acknowledge and the damage it is doing.
The public/police relationship is vital in our society, and especially so for the police.
Without the co-operation of the public, our police force would not be able to solve any of the more serious crimes committed. Just look at the handless body murder in wellytown or any of the other major crimes over the years. The public are the eyes and ears of our police, and without the goodwill of the public...
The stance taken by the upper echelons of police management is destroying public perception and confidence in the front line police.

Ixion

21st July 2006, 09:32

I guess it is no different to Income Tax..we work, we pay taxes, we speed we stand a chance of getting a ticket.....we want nice clothes we have to pay for them...............life's dusty path.......the Police are not the only revenue collectors.....don't see any threads about people who work for Inland Revenue, where does it end, lets complain about petrol station attendents and tell them to hassle BP to reduce price of petrol...........all they are doing is earning a crust just like the Police are and the only difference is that they are more exposed to abuse because it is easier............

You miss the point (unless your post was a piss take), and in defense of the indefensible actually condemn it . It is completely different to income tax . Income tax is openly and obviously a tax. It is avowedly designed to raise revenue.

The laws on speeding, and the fines imposed for breaches of them are NOT supposed to be about raising revenue. They are intended to make the roads safe, or safer.

If the Area Commander had instructed his cops to issue more tickets because there hd been too many accidents caused by speeding , few would have complained.

But he did not instruct that more tickets be issued because of concerns about safety. He instructed that more tickets be issued because of concerns about meeting his ticket quota , upon which police funding depended .

The inescapable inference is that the tickets issued in obedience to his orders were not issued to make the roads safer, but to raise revenue. The accusation that the police have strenuously denied until now.

There is only ONE acceptable reason for a senior policeman to order cops to issue more tickets, and that is road safety. In this case , that was not the reason for the order.

Lou Girardin

21st July 2006, 10:25

WHY WOULD I WRITE MY MP YOU FUCKTARD ,

Because public pressure IS forcing changes in Police policy.
You would have to write your letters in lower case though, they wouldn't take you seriously otherwise.
Try to keep the profanity down too, Pollies are sensitive souls.

Lou Girardin

21st July 2006, 10:29

You pay my wage, then I will revolt...

We do.:yes:

What is being obscured by all the clever accounting is the bottom line. That is, the Govt LOVES the dosh tickets are bringing in.
In MOT days, few of the current tactics would have been approved by the Director. Mainly because the Pollies were scared stiff of a voter revolt over 'unfair' ticketing of drivers. We weren't allowed to hide, radar units had to be in plain view, etc etc.
When Labour became aware that NZer's, in their apathy, would accept almost any amount of fiscal rape, they brought in the 11 km/h tolerance instead of the previous 15th percentile for speed camera trigger points. For instance, one speed camera zone had a 127 km/h trigger point. Then they started pressuring Police Officers (through the bosses, of course) to start writing chicken shit speeding tickets under the guise of road safety. Hence the quotas.
Some of the filthy lucre this produced was then plowed into ever more sophisticated speed measuring devices, the result being that HP is immeasurably better resourced than the poor tossers trying to catch crims.
But it is changing.

Pixie

21st July 2006, 10:33

The 'incentive' of getting off the ticket if they fit another tyre (gotta bring a reciept) makes them do it.

How does the Clark Regime make any money on that?

Finn

21st July 2006, 10:40

We do.:yes:

I don't :nya: :nya: :nya:

Pixie

21st July 2006, 10:43

The LTSA , alas, are awake to the fact that timesheets are invariably , in every industry, classified as works of fiction.
That amounts to calling the policeman a liar

The_Dover

21st July 2006, 10:56

That amounts to calling the policeman a liar

Surely the porkies wouldn't tell porkers?

scumdog

21st July 2006, 11:05

How does the Clark Regime make any money on that?

They don't.

It's a win -win-win.
I keep my 'quota up.
The boss sees I AM working
The public don't have to pay

And nobody has ever said to me "Your tickets aren't providing enough revenue."

It's about the ticket numbers, NOT the revenue per se. (Of course that IS a perk)

Lou Girardin

21st July 2006, 12:33

It's about the ticket numbers, NOT the revenue per se. (Of course that IS a perk)

Sophistry and semantics. Stock in trade of the upwardly climbing middle Police manager.

If you keep this up scummy, you'll be promoted and have to move to Welly.

scumdog

21st July 2006, 12:47

Sophistry and semantics. Stock in trade of the upwardly climbing middle Police manager.

If you keep this up scummy, you'll be promoted and have to move to Welly.

Promoted? Welly? ooh you're an evil bitch!!

From 1971 'til now and I'm still on GDB - promotion? "I don't think so Tim":nya:

merv

21st July 2006, 13:58

Don't worry Scum, when you promote to Welly I'll have lunch with ya!

Patrick

21st July 2006, 20:06

Exactly. In other words. REVENUE COLLECTING.

No:zzzz: :zzzz: :zzzz: :zzzz:

A compliance ticket generates no revenue... you get the problem sorted and the ticket is waived, but it is still "counted" as a ticket issued for the hour...

Geez, Quantum Physics 101 it aint...

Grahameeboy

21st July 2006, 20:11

No:zzzz: :zzzz: :zzzz: :zzzz:

A compliance ticket generates no revenue... you get the problem sorted and the ticket is waived, but it is still "counted" as a ticket issued for the hour...

Geez, Quantum Physics 101 it aint...

:rockon: .................................................. ............:yes:

Patrick

21st July 2006, 20:11

We do.:yes:

No you dont... I know your taxes go straight to the KAHUI clan...:nya:

21st July 2006, 20:30

Congratulations NZ. It appears the only thing NZ is good at anymore is failure. What a shithole.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10392281

Off topic but Finn started it.
I smell a rat with this review. Notice the overall 'safety' ratings (last para)were "Ireland came out on top, followed by Belgium, Holland, Germany and France"
Is this just a coincidence or what that these 'safe travel haven's' just happen to be selected in order of the world's best beers!
Now back to the ticket thingy-me-bob. I feel well placed to comment having built up an extensive personal data base of first hand, at the coalface, research, collecting a lot of roadside paperwork from frontline Officers on tickets.
Why can't we return to the good ole days of warnings. I loved warnings. warnings worked for me. But seriously why can't Police be acknowledged for issuing warnings just the same as ticket writing. Nay, let them be rewarded more for giving out positive reinforcement rather than always being seen as a negative force on our roads. I really liked Scumdog's bit ábout how compliance tickets encourage the offender to fix the problem. This is a genuine positive action that in no way can be tainted by the IRD. Oh hang on...they must buy new tyres and whammo...a GST hit. Now I get it. We can link any action back to tax can't we!