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bugjuice
25th July 2006, 20:12
this is so bloody stupid now.
The ZX6 brake lights won't light from the brake lever.

Originally, neither foot or lever would make them light up. After hours of tracing back from the tail lights, I found a bad connection at the back of the bike. Fixed that, and the foot brake made the brake lights come on. But not the lever.

More tracing round the front of the bike, and bridging the brake switch wires, and still nothing. I've got a test light that I grounded and poked every connector in every plug I could find behind the dash. The test light came on a few times (and made the dash go out then touching another made the dash come back on?!?!?!) but at no point when the test light was on, was the brake lights on. So all the plugs seem to appear ok at the dash.

From the dash, the loom goes under the tank and seat, then out the back. Next is to take the tank and seat off again I guess, but all that is just wires, and hopefully just two none broken wires.

I guess I've said it myself that it could be a broken wire, but is there anything I'm missing??? The fuse is ok, the wiring is really simple according to the bike manual, and no other circuits are off. SO WTF IS IT?!?!?!?

This is the only damn thing stopping me from calling Texmo to get the bloody thing a CoF..

Motu
25th July 2006, 21:04
You don't need both levers working the brake lamp - it just has to come on when the brakes are applied,it doesn't specify which one.I quite like to be able to choose when my brake light works....

You just have to find power to the switch,I doubt if it comes from the dash - confusing yourself there,keep it simple stupid.The wiring should be colour coded,but in practice the Japanese use a system unknown to the Western mind.If you can't get power to the switch - produce some....run a wire from a convienient switched fused location to the front switch wire.There is always a way.

bugjuice
25th July 2006, 21:11
that was going to be the last and next resort - to tap a new wire from the lever to the brake pedal and 'piggy back' it.. which is probably going to be a lot of hassle.

The wire colours are both black from the switch. Then 4 inches down, it turns into brown/white and blue/white dashed. Then it goes into a big bundle of black tape. :bye:

But I like your technicality ;)

Ixion
25th July 2006, 21:14
Your friend in these matters is a long length of wire with an alligator clip on each end. One clip on battery (non earth) - we know the earth from the bulb is OK, cos the rear pedal lights it.

Look around the lever. There should be a couple of wires (probably wrapped up as one) coming from it.Touch the clip on your wire to each of those two. One should light the lamp. If not, the wire from the lever to the lamp is broken. If it does light, the fee dto the switch is no good. Take the clip off the battery and connect the two clips across the ends of the lever wires. If the lamp now comes on the switch is NFG. If not, you need to trace back the feed to the switch. AND REPLACE THE FUSE. Yes, I know you checked it.Replace it anyway. I have lost count of the times when replacing a fuse has made a fault disappear. Even when the fuse had been checked. Absolutely. For certain.

bugjuice
25th July 2006, 21:19
the brake light fuse is the same circuit as the dash lights. The dash lights go out, then the fuse is dead.

And yup, I connected the test lamp to the battery and the other end to one of the two wires from the switch, and neither lit up. But, firstly I'm now doubting if I tested it after I found the previous fault (so the test was no good) and I only connected the test lamp to the negative. Thought it was safer than connecting it to the positive and blowing heaps of stuff.. Might redo that test and see.. The switch is brand new tho.. But yeah, I know even new things can be faulty

Motu
25th July 2006, 21:26
The wire colours are both black from the switch. Then 4 inches down, it turns into brown/white and blue/white dashed.

Ah,so......the oriental mind - inscrutable.

To us Vulcans...illogical.

bugjuice
25th July 2006, 21:29
forgot to mention, the switch of colour is in a black sheath too.. they aren't smart for a reason ;)

imdying
25th July 2006, 21:39
You don't need both levers working the brake lamp - it just has to come on when the brakes are applied,it doesn't specify which one.I quite like to be able to choose when my brake light works....I thought it was when either brake was applied?

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/publications/vir-manual/general-vehicles/4-lighting-v2-3.pdf

Lighting 4-10 Stop Lamps

Performance
8. A required stop lamp must operate when a service
brake is applied.



How do they define 'service brake'? That's the normal running brakes, as opposed to the parking brake right?

Phenoix
25th July 2006, 22:20
Use a proper multi meter instead of test lamp.
That way you can check due to excess resistance ie corrosion.
I have a spare meter if you want, and might have a bit of spare time on Sunday if you want a hand.

Cajun
26th July 2006, 08:12
those switches can shit themselfs BJ. Should be cheap to pick up another one

sAsLEX
26th July 2006, 14:04
those switches can shit themselfs BJ. Should be cheap to pick up another one

or fill it with CO cONtact cleaner and they generally get a few more months out of them

Cajun
26th July 2006, 14:23
or fill it with CO cONtact cleaner and they generally get a few more months out of them

well i would rather replace it, i wouldn't want it dieing on me later stage and not noticing it and getting some ass rear ending me cause my brake light didn't come on

sAsLEX
26th July 2006, 14:26
well i would rather replace it, i wouldn't want it dieing on me later stage and not noticing it and getting some ass rear ending me cause my brake light didn't come on

Should be keeping an eye on everything around you, and riding to one side of the lane so hopefully they plow next to you! I also nearly always split when coming up to stationary traffic to avoid being the meat in the cage sandwhich! Have ridden through a shower of glass and indicators as people have read ended things next to me, quite humerous really.

Plus you always have the rear brake pedal to light them up as well.

imdying
26th July 2006, 17:58
those switches can shit themselfs BJ. Should be cheap to pick up another oneThe switch he has is new, and to double check, he has bridged the connectors which would rule out the switch anyway.

bugjuice
26th July 2006, 18:30
thanx imdying, just about to say that..

not worked on it yet, going for a swim to relax me, then back on it tonight. So I'd like some good ideas please.. :p

I've pretty much come to terms with having to reroute new wires to the brake pedal switch..

imdying
26th July 2006, 18:41
I've pretty much come to terms with having to reroute new wires to the brake pedal switch..That would seem to be an awfully brutal approach to take on what is an extremely simple light switch circuit. You could be able to find both ends of every wire in the brake light circuit, and divine from there which one is broken.

Phenoix
26th July 2006, 18:49
Yea, as said. There's problably only 1 wire broken, but it may not even be a wire. Could be within the ignition or the likes.
So new wires would only make the headace bigger.
If your still stuck on Sunday, PM me.
I got the contact cleaner, the air brush's, multi metre ect as part of work :)

sAsLEX
26th July 2006, 19:11
the air brush's

FF will be pleased if you can cover most of that orange up with pretty much any other colour!

bugjuice
26th July 2006, 20:45
funny bugger..

I know that it's a simple circuit, which makes me more pissed at it. I'm going to put the test lamp on the positive of the battery and tap both wires individually and see what happens. If a bulb blows, I think I've got a couple more. If the fuse goes, got heaps of them..

Voltimeter is only going to tell me there's a current or not. The test lamp does the same job pretty much. I've got a VM which isn't reading anything thru the switch wires at the mo. But even just a fraction of a volt would wind me up too. It's all or noffin baba!! I just need to get those damn lights working

imdying
26th July 2006, 21:13
Voltimeter is only going to tell me there's a current or not. The test lamp does the same job pretty much. I've got a VM which isn't reading anything thru the switch wires at the mo. But even just a fraction of a volt would wind me up too. It's all or noffin baba!! I just need to get those damn lights workingIt's not always all or nothing, some obscure problems are highlighted by things like only 0.5v showing (say), or 0.5 a volt showing all the time (for example).

Do you have a wiring diagram?

bugjuice
26th July 2006, 21:47
yup, got the kawa workshop manual. The wiring diagram looks like the London underground on steroids, but I'm used to that and can follow it fine. It's physically tracing the wires that's the tricky part. Didn't get to check it tonight, it'll have to be tomorrow now..

Motu
26th July 2006, 21:48
I'm wary of using a multimeter or LED test lamp on circuits - they will show a voltage supply,but that circuit may not be able to pass a current.The test lamp with a bulb will show it's ability to flow a current through the circuit.Stay away from auto ranging too - it's a bugger,I've been caught out a few times with a flip between .5 and 5 volts.I like my graphing multimeter,it's a quick visual check - tumbling numbers on a digital gauge are a pain.

Phenoix
26th July 2006, 21:52
It could also be a broken diode, or depending on the electircal system, a transistor.
Just some more things to consider.

bugjuice
26th July 2006, 21:54
I'm wary of using a multimeter or LED test lamp on circuits - they will show a voltage supply,but that circuit may not be able to pass a current.The test lamp with a bulb will show it's ability to flow a current through the circuit.Stay away from auto ranging too - it's a bugger,I've been caught out a few times with a flip between .5 and 5 volts.I like my graphing multimeter,it's a quick visual check - tumbling numbers on a digital gauge are a pain.
my thoughts too. If it can light a test bulb, it can light the back bulbs. If it can't, then it's broke and I don't want to know, move on.

As for diodes etc, according to the underground map, it's as simple as can be. Which is half the taunt.

texmo
27th July 2006, 01:20
[QUOTE=Motu]You don't need both levers working the brake lamp [QUOTE]
nah rear brake and front both need to activate the rear light. Might be diffrent for a warrant.

texmo
27th July 2006, 01:22
just bring it in kit im sure your bike will pass....

Motu
27th July 2006, 13:56
nah rear brake and front both need to activate the rear light. Might be diffrent for a warrant.

Depends on the AVI - some would say the vehicle was complied with two brake light switches,so both must work.I go by the VIRM where it doesn't mention front or rear brakes at all.Bikes always only had a rear brake switch (when the rule came in) and there has been no change since.So for compliance both need to work,for a WoF it only has to work when the brakes are applied...how or why doesn't enter into it.

Macktheknife
27th July 2006, 14:56
replace power in to switch, betcha it works. run a test wire to check from fused point.

texmo
27th July 2006, 17:48
Depends on the AVI - some would say the vehicle was complied with two brake light switches,so both must work.I go by the VIRM where it doesn't mention front or rear brakes at all.Bikes always only had a rear brake switch (when the rule came in) and there has been no change since.So for compliance both need to work,for a WoF it only has to work when the brakes are applied...how or why doesn't enter into it.
I will drege up the info tomoro but. unless your bike is pre 1980 thats 1979 or older for a re-reg the brakes need to work when applied by the front or the rear.

Motu
27th July 2006, 17:53
You are talking VIN.....I'm talking WoF.....

bugjuice
27th July 2006, 20:48
ok, quick update...

got the volti meter out this time which showed a small negative current one way (~-2v) and the other way round showed ~-11v ?!?!??!?!?!?! Both negative.. So after giving up on that, I clipped the test lamp to the battery negative and testing the wires, then the battery positive and both wires, and nothing. Then I thought about testing a few more wires around the plug for the cluster to the dash so i could tap a new live, so I clipped the end to the key (ign barrel is grounded) and poked a few wires. Various things lit up etc. Then tried the switch wires again and one bloody lights up!! Tried the other one, and nope.. So, that must be the live. Plugged the live in and took out the neg, held the test lamp to the other pin from the switch and pulled the lever, and the test lamp lit up!! Hurrah!!!!! So hooked the test lamp to the battery positive and put the neg wire on the switch and held the test lamp to the other switch pin, pulled the lever..... aaaaand.......... nothing..

But then that's what really confused me. There's power running thru the lines in the right combo. The circuit is complete when the switch is activated, yet the tail lights (completing the circuit) don't light up.. ffs..

So, I went out, bought some extra wire, and I'm going to run a tap from the switch to the rear brake switch and be done with it. It'll be ugly, but it'll work. Black wire tape wrapped round, and no one will notice