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Ghost Lemur
27th July 2006, 21:53
*takes a deep breath*

As some of you know, been saving for the past two years for a new bike. Still not quite there (about half way if I don't spend to much on the upcoming honeymoon). But in the meantime been researching, reading, weighing up options.

Been pretty set on a dual purpose/dual sport for quite a while now. Two main reasons are sprotsbikes are too rediculously overpriced, too expensive to repair when they lay down, and I can't afford a road bike plus an off-roader.

Now my other requirements (as per my motard thread) were a daily commute (got to justify spending all that money on something selfish to the soon-to-be Mrs Lemur) and some weekend fun. Whether the fun was on the twisties, gravel backroads or fully offroad.

After that bit of background I'll get to my Rant.

WHAT THE FUCK is with the state of available bikes in NZ. I've been reading the 111-page thread on the 06 KLX250 over at advrider.com, and seeing all the performance increases they were getting with some relatively simple/cheap mods. That by the way is not including the Aussie's who were being given 300cc kits free with their new purchases. So I got to Kawasaki.co.nz to get a pricing seeing there are zero new ones on bikepoint.

What do I discover. There not even available here. WTF not??? No idea. The KLX300 is, fat load of good to someone without a full licence. So what else are they keeping from me, I ask myself. I have been eyeing the D-Tracker on bikepoint, but at $7k for a 2k model it not only seems a bit expensive but is more than I'm eventually wanting to spend. I pay kawasaki japan a visit, and discover that 2006 D-Tracker's are not only available but are ~115,000 yen, or wait for it.... *drum roll* $7k NEW.

Yes yes I know there'd be the additional costs if they were for sale here. That'd make them like what? $8.5k? Well that's the same price as the on road DR-Z250k6, which funnily enough seems to be the only truely DS bike available new in NZ.

These are the bikes I've so far considered and their availability (or lack there of) here. I'm still not sure on some of them.

If anyone can point me to others which I could add to my list, and further insight (or link thereof), I'll greatly appreciate it.

My simple requirements. Able to handle open-road (need to be able to get to the off-road/back road fun. Road registered. Light and not too tall (or modifyable down a bit) as I'm a short (read: ~5'10" when I'm not slouching) and skinny (read: 60Kg). So as you can see even when I have my full licence I'm not going to be in any rush to upgrade.

Gas Gas
# Pampera 250 - Definitely a possibility, although there doesn't seem to be a single one available in NZ. Heard they were ~$7k or so, good price. Unsure of performance (including what can be done) and parts availability/cost/etc.
# EC250 - $11k+ new, not sure of anything else related to these.
# MC250 - Like the EC more expensive than the Pampera, not sure of much else, other than they're not listed on the NZ Gas Gas site.

Honda
# CRF250X - available, $11k new, although listed as trail bike on their website this screams of a high maintainence expensive pro bike definitely not suitable for eveyday use.
# XR250L - available, $9-9.5K new, listed as a Farm bike, looks heavy, no sure of performance (either on road or off), but it's a possibility.
# Other veriations of the XR - So many different letters it makes my head spin, only the L is available new, so it would appear (at least as far as NZ is concerned) all others have been discontinued.

Husaberg
Nil suitable models available in NZ

Husqvarna
# TE250 - available, $13.5k new, highly strung, high performance, but road registerable. I'd expect expensive parts, and maintainence too. Looks feckin sexy though.

Kawasaki *takes another deep breath*
# KLX 250R - NOT available, would be $8-$9k new if they were. Very easy to get some extra performance out of them with mods ranging from free to expensive. Including the ability (at least in Oz and by getting parts seperately in the US) to get a 300cc kit which just drops in.
FUCK YOU KAWASAKI!!!
# KL 250 - available, price = who cares, gutless overweight, under performance, alright for solely a commuter (if your that way inclined).
# D-Tracker - NOT available, were it to be would be about the same price as the KLX. Not surprising seeing it's just a motarded version of the KLX.
Did I mention FUCK YOU KAWASAKI!!!

Suzuki
# DR-Z250 - Available, $8.5 new, not sure of performance, or what can be done. But this is why so many kiwi's love Suzuki. They actually sell there bikes here. Will definetly being doing some more research into these. With that sort of price and availability I'd expect to pick up a well looked after near new (less than 3yrs old) model in good condition for $5k. Sweet. Definitely a major contender at the moment.

Yamaha
# DT230 - Not available. For once it's not the NZ divisions fault. They stopped manufacturing them. Enough to make me cry, but if I could find a late model one in good condition second hand I'd jump on it. Motu, sell me yours, you know you want to.
# TTR250 - Available, $10k new, bit expensive. Like the Suzi I'm not so up on performance etc on this bike. Needs further research.
# WR250 - Available, $12k new. Expensive, but quick, and nimble. If price was no option this would be up in the running. But as price is a consideration makes this bike unlikely.

So there we have it. Yes I know I've mainly focused on new bikes. Although I'm not looking to buy new, continued availability of parts, plus happy current owners upgrading to latest model, etc all mean I'm probably better off getting an older version of an available bike (exception made for the DT230).

Thanks for listening (well reading).

As I said before, I main reason for this thread is (besides getting it off my chest 'FUCK YOU KAWASAKI') to get more opinions, suggestions, experiences, etc.

paturoa
27th July 2006, 22:37
You haven't mentioned the DR650, it is probably cheaper, not quite as good off road (rekon it got more to do with the rider and tyres than anything else for normal people)

And for on road, which is where most people without cars and trailers spend most of their time, its a whole lot better.

Just a thought - check the prices you'll be surprised. Check with a few of teh KBers with DR's.

Motu
27th July 2006, 22:53
I went through the same frustration when looking for a sub 250 street legal dirt bike....and you know how I solved it.I wasn't considering new though,and wasn't restricted out of the KLX300 option.Road registered KLX250's were around but rare,and that's what I was waiting for on TradeMe...there were some electric start KLX250's,but a closer look shows they aren't a real KLX - crap non adjustable suspn,steel tank(not that that a problem),they are better than a KLR,but a long way from a KLX250 plastic tank kickstart.

The TTR250 Raid and DR250 Gerbil looked pretty good too,but tall and heavy,they wouldn't be good as real trail bikes,but the suspn is good.I thought the standard TTR250 was the better option.I'm not sure if Yamaha makes a new or late model road TTR250 these days (the new one is really the XT225).Best choice would be the WR250F,but don't know how they would do on commuting duties,and have a small tank and narrow high seat.(but sit on one,long soft suspn,so although tall you can touch the ground...just.

Good luck....I'm happy with my choice - eat ya heart out!

slowpoke
27th July 2006, 23:41
Mate, you are talking some serious dosh there for fairly run of the mill new bikes. A quick look on Trademe revealed 77 dual purpose bikes for sale, 80% of which are under $10k. A few examples:

BMWF650 $8800
TTR600 $7500
KTM520 $7500 (high performance, high tech, high maintenance)
KTM LC4 400 $6000 (less performance, less tech, less maintenance)

Those are on the first page, found in about 30sec. Can't say I see the problem. If your set on new then that's the price you pay, end of story, but there are planty of S/H bikes to fit the bill if you aren't locked in to a certain model.

Ixion
27th July 2006, 23:43
None of those will work for him, he's restricted to 250cc.

Ghost Lemur
27th July 2006, 23:48
You haven't mentioned the DR650, it is probably cheaper, not quite as good off road (rekon it got more to do with the rider and tyres than anything else for normal people)

As I mentioned in my original post my main reason for sticking with 250cc (irrespective of licencing requirements) has to do with me being a teeny tiny man.

Really size wise a 125cc is probably perfect (hight weight etc) for me at moment. But road use is the main thing pushing me to a 250cc.

In a few years with some real experience and skill under my belt, I'll more than likely feel the need to move on up to a 400-650. The KLX 250R for example is capable of comfortable highway speeds while still being relatively lite.

BTW specs for the KLX can be seen on the Aussie Kwaka site here (http://www.kawasaki.com.au/au/all_products/motorcycles/motorcycles_subcat_offroad/klx250r/main.htm#).


Motu - You're a tease. Just give up the DT and no one will get hurt. :blip:

Seriously though. I don't understand why the KLX isn't available here. The DR-Z seems to be doing brisk enough trade for them to keep pushing them. I'm sure the KLX would too. Not a tintank farmbike model. But the same one as available in Oz. Yes it's also has electric start, but no it's definitely a KLX.

Here (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107591&page=1) is a link to the KLX thread over on advrider.com

I did consider the baja and old dr. Main reason for going for a bike which is being sold new is as I say, I've still got some saving to do, and if it's being sold now for $8500 new then I should be able to get a 2-4 yr old minta with my $5k budget. If I go for something that is $12k new then obviously I'm going to have to get a mid 90's model in order to come in under budget.

Of course if prices keep up the way they are and choices remain limited I might consider buying new paying off the remainder with what I'm currently spending on parking the cage each week.

Of course I'd like to buy new (nothing like that new bike smell and shiney metal). But having a family I have a great deal of difficulty justifying spending that much money on myself.

What are you're thoughts on the DR-Z250 Motu? Have you had much of a play with one? The only thing I'm concerned about is their height. I felt like a midget standing next to one. Power? Performance.

I take it their not available (roadworthy like the KLX) in the states. Was hoping to find another 111 page thread for it, but couldn't. So going to search the rest of the interweb and see what I can find.

slowpoke
28th July 2006, 00:09
None of those will work for him, he's restricted to 250cc.


Saving for two years I thought he might have had a chance to get off his restricted.
Still plenty of bikes though:

DRZ250 2003 $5500
DR250 2003 (should go for <$5000)
XT250 2005 $4850
TTR250 1997 $4200
XR200 2002 $3600 (yeah it is a H... H... Honda but I did put it at the bottom of the list, OK?)

You could by two of these for the price of the new bike and none of them will be significantly down on performance. Sure there may be maintenance costs or a bit of money to be spent but it would be balanced out by the instant depreciation that occurs as soon as you wheel a new bike outta the door.

Yeah, been there done that with saving for a bike. It's agony watching the prices creep up as your own saving efforts battle to make any inroads. The only saving (excuse the pun) grace is that the bikes you were looking at new two years ago are now a hell of a lot cheaper. You don't seem to be after cutting edge performance so the virtues of a new bike are outweighed by the savings you'd make on a preloved model. You are also looking at a segment that generally don't get thrashed as per the hardcore MX or enduro style bikes.

Now, if I can just find a big bore Supermoto bike for under 10K I might catch you on a dirt road somewhere.....

Ghost Lemur
28th July 2006, 01:01
Thanks for the suggestions and support slowpoke.

I'm definitely wanting to keep to my $5k limit. Might be slightly skewed in sticking to models which are still available new. So am definitely open to the models you mentioned. Although the DR doesn't seem to offer any benefit over the DR-Z except maybe slightly cheaper, looks heavier. The XT has a drum brake at rear (why I'll never know). The TTR is on the list but is more expensive age vs price, hense why I highlighted the new prices on bikes. It's what I'm using to calculate the price vs age considerations that I'm going to have to factor in when making a final decision.

*Spot the guy with too much time to think about bikes, but no bike to ride*

clint640
28th July 2006, 08:51
There's bugger all difference between a DRZ250 & a KLX250 so why get your panties in a knot? If that's the kind of thing you want just buy the damn Suzuki.

They've been advertising those Pampera's for $5995 which would be a great buy, there must be some around. Way more boogie than the 4 strokes & a low seat height too.

Cheers
Clint

merv
28th July 2006, 08:53
We've been talking about dual sport bikes and adventure riding a lot on many threads have you not seen those?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=31502

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=31403

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=32931

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=32714

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=27185

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=22980

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=2336

(Somehow Pukemanu Adventure ride is now in Auckland?)

and probably many other threads if you look for them.

We have 4 trail bikes between me and mrs merv. I have a WR250F and the XR250L, she has a DR650 and an XT250. You will see in the threads I have said don't buy the Suzuki DRZ because it is only a cosmetic upgrade of the DR250R I had and that had too many flaws for a dirt bike.

For what you are talking about - commuting and trail riding and a 250, I'd say buy the Honda and you won't be disappointed. It is smooth, beautifully built, reasonably fast and light on fuel and good in the dirt - plush suspension (upside down front end), great brakes. Down side is it is slightly heavy at 128kg but for adventure type riding not a worry - tops out around 140km/hr.

I wouldn't recommend the WR250 for what you want (Honda CRF250X is in the same category) - it is a race bike that revs to 13,500 - it is fantastic on adventure rides - I laugh inside my helmet as I ride mine it is so fast and light(will easily do over 160) , but as a commuter forget it. On the road it is just OK but compared to a trail type bike like the XR it is harsh, drinks gas, and you going to end up rebuilding the top end of the engine too often. I'm only 165cm tall - how about you? WR has stock seat height of close to a metre high - I lowered mine.

Yamaha were selling the road legal TTR250 cheap recently for about $7,500 - could be worth a look - they are tall.

The XT250 we have is light just over 100kg so similar in weight to the WR that's why Mrs got hers for dirt riding and it is very low seat height only 810mm compared to XR250L at 875mm and TTR250 at 910mm. It has a damn good set of gear ratios and would suit the commuter plus trail requirement, but it is a 225cc bike not a full 250 so is a bit down on grunt and isn't as hard out as the others e.g. doesn't even have a crossbrace on the handlebars. Similar to kawasaki Sherpa - they could be worth a look and are just as cheap and a full 250.

We seem to have been anti green in our family so have never owned Kawasakis so can't comment on them but if the KLX or KLR were available I guess they'd be worth a look. It doesn't seem that long ago they were available in the shops because I glanced a new one at Motorad at the time.

I see now you are talking about a $5k limit - you'd only get an older import XR250L for that as the new ones haven't been a round more than about a year. I also see you said you felt like a midget next to the Suzuki - so you can't be very tall.

Good luck with your choice. Remember I'm telling you from experience I wouldn't recommend the Suzuki. The DR650 is a different kettle of fish and my comments don't hold for that which is why we still have one a 2004 model, but then not a 250.

Motu
28th July 2006, 08:57
Have you had a look at the elecric start XR250? I'm sure Merv will be along soon to rave about his.It's what Honda should have made years ago,it's not too tall and pretty light really.The DRZ250 just looks ''old'',you'd think after the DRZ400 they could do the same thing in a 250....but you can get lowering links for them.

That's an impressive KLX250 thread on ADVrider,good to see them getting into a 250.When I first heard about them I thought they were the Jap import steel tank KLX250 I saw a couple of in Red Barron,but it appears it's the genuine KLX chassis with the electric start motor.And it's a damn shame we can't get them,maybe there will be some used imports come in soon - maybe you could talk to a dealer,I know they have buyers in Japan and can find what you want.

I was not looking forward to a kickstart dirt bike.The levers are so high these days,and with short legs and stiff hips starting one on the down side of a hill would be impossible - although I don't have too much trouble with the TLR200,but it is lower.Another thing I wasn't looking forward to was the lack of power,I was just going to have to accept it as part of going to a small bike - but 2 stroke power solved that! Perhaps a closer look at the Gas Gas,it's the closest to a DT230....a Pampera would be nice,but I don't think it fits your criteria,it's too off road.
.

Transalper
28th July 2006, 09:50
as I'm a short (read: ~5'10" when I'm not slouching) and skinny (read: 60Kg). So as you can see even when I have my full licence I'm not going to be in any rush to upgrade.
Shit, i'm 5'10" (that's not short, it's average) and only 58kg when last weighed a couple of weeks ago, and i've been moderately dirtbiking a Transalp. You have unlimited options.
Admit I haven't read the whole thread, but we are getting a DR250-Djebel for my partner (about 5'7", 60 something kg).
Not as full on off road as a race breed DRZ but is a little lower and a dam sight more comfortable on road and still a bloody good off roader.
PS Dirt Action Services can lower stuff quite well beond factory settings.

warewolf
28th July 2006, 09:50
Here's some thoughts on the DR-Z250, which I've owned for 3 years. It's now for sale, because my requirements have changed, but it's been one of the best value, most versatile bikes I've owned. It's not been listed for sale yet despite having been prepped (i.e. a more thorough wash and photograph) because I'm not sure I want to part with it, partly because it's just so godd@mn useful!! OK it is now for sale (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/trader.php?do=showad&adid=709274&postid=709274), $5,750 negotiable.

Bear with me while I give you the ad as an introduction: it's a Dec 2001 model, 21Kkm on the clock, fully set up with road tyres (ME33/ME55A) on the original rims, ventura pack rack, full MX knobbies on the second set of rims with rim locks, lower gearing etc. Front suspension has been tweaked and rear shock re-valved and regularly serviced by Craig at Coleman's. (The difference over a stocker is dramatic.) WOF & rego current.

It's been well maintained, but looks a bit rough up close because it's been well used. The plastics are scratched up and the lower frame rails ditto. It was already down this path when I bought it, so figured it was too late to worry about decent protection.

It's completely standard in the engine department. You can bump them up about 10% with a staintune and rejet. It tops out in the high-130s kph (closed course, officer). 118kg and 22rwhp standard. You're not that different physically from myself, around 172cm 67kg.

In Auckland it was used as a daily commuter. Occasionally it goes out for a sprotsbike-like run on the tar, up to 600km in a day. In between, the mirrors & indicators come off, the wheels get swapped, and it gets ridden on trail rides, such as any Power Adventures ride, Epic Events - stuff like that. It's done some adventure rides in there, too.

OK, that's why I want to keep it! Why do I want to sell it? I now work from home so don't need a cheap commuter. I've got another bike that is a dual-purpose for adventure rides. I want to do more serious trail rides and I want a lighter bike to do it. And I reckon it's worth more to me than anyone else...tough call. I'd take $6K for it and all spares if it was offered right now. Might even throw in the grip heaters.

Anyway, sorry to throw this ad into your thread, (not really) but it is on topic!

thehollowmen
28th July 2006, 09:57
You sound like a pretty mechanically minded guy...

So my question is, if you want performance out of a 250: Why not go for a two stroke?

You could then do almost all the engine stuff yourself..

If not, I'm sure a dealer in australia would be happy to send you over one, but that one new over there without shipping is still probably out of your price range. Any Kawasaki dealer *should* (but may not want to) source you parts to that engine.

warewolf
28th July 2006, 10:13
And now on to thoughts about the other bikes.

The TTR250 and DR-Z250 are essentially the same bike out of different companies. The XR250 only differs with it's lack of electric leg - but the current XR250L is almost there (electric leg but softer suspension). All these bikes are around ten years or so old in their current form, and go back a further ten or so. The DR/Z is unchanged since at least back to 1995. Oh, and they are all the old school trail bikes; rugged and reliable, but still the good thing in their day. The new hi-po 4Ts aren't the same thing, really.

The jap import adventure versions, i.e. the Raid, Djebel and Baja respectively, generally are heavier, have luggage racks, better lights, all electric starts, bigger tin tanks, but are softer suspended with cheaper, lower-spec components, maybe lower seat height. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but understand they are set up quite differently to the trail-spec models. A plus for your commuting but a minus for the serious off-road stuff.

A friend has a Pampera 250. I don't think it's ridden much, might be interested in selling. It's a good learner bike in many respects but the suspension really lets it down. Almost dangerous I'd say. It's faster than the DR-Z but with substantially inferior suspension. Don't know if it's easily fixed.

You'll note I haven't mentioned the Big K! :yawn:

You might be right about availability in new bikes, but used: the world is your oyster!

thehollowmen
28th July 2006, 10:33
And finally. Go down to the suzuki shop. I wouldn't be surprised to find a kawa engine in some of their dirt bikes after what's been going on lately.

Hell I'll go down and check on tuesday :-P

merv
28th July 2006, 10:45
Hey I missed seeing that you are 5'10". You should find any of the bikes probably even up to about 930 - 950mm seat height would be OK. It was mentioned look at the two strokes too. I won't comment on those because I haven't owned a two stoke since 1973.

Ghost Lemur
29th July 2006, 20:40
Went window shopping today.

Was fine nothing I really suitable or that I wanted anywhere. Had a really good chat to R1Madness' wife. Their getting in 5 Trickers if anyone's keen on one. Would make a brilliant fun commuter. Here's a link about them (http://www.yamaha-motor-europe.com/products/motorcycles/street/tricker.jsp).

Also had a good chat to one of the guys at the Dirt place on Cashel St about the KLX not being available here. He said Kawasaki seem to think there's not the demand here.

I'm sorry but does this seem ludicrious to anyone else? They seem to be happy selling the KLX300. But the road legal 250, which would compete directly with the DR-Z, TTR, XT, XR-L, etc. All these other manufacturers recognise the local market exists.

So what the bloody hell is wrong with Kawasaki. I'd send them an email, but the fucktards don't actually have a "contact us" link on their webpage. I suppose that says something about just how little they give a shit.


On a positive note (slightly). Was having the usual trawl over trademe. Normally it's fine as there's nothing I want.

This time though there's TWO perfect choices exactly in my budget. BASTARDS. Why do the biker gods insist on tormenting me.

What do you guys think of these...

2002 Kawasaki KLX250 (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dual-purpose/auction-64795675.htm)
1997 Honda CRM250 (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dual-purpose/auction-64705876.htm)

merv
29th July 2006, 21:16
That KLX being only 4 years old looks like a good option.

Ghost Lemur
29th July 2006, 23:10
I know that KLX is exactly what I've been raving for. Near new, well looked after, a minta that suits all my needs.

But... That CRM is pulling me. Wanting me to buy it. Found a good site on them here (http://www.crm250.com).

Anyone ever owned one of these? Seem to be in the same league as the DT230. Road legal Dual purpose two smoker.

Motu
29th July 2006, 23:37
That is the steel tank Jap domestic KLX,it may be different to the couple I have seen - but they have no damping adjustments on the forks or rear shock,and a few other cheap tricks that would make them totaly useless off road,you are better off finding a plastic tank road registered KLX.

The CRM is streets above practicaly anything else you'll ever see - and it'll see off those big 4 stroke singles no worries.You can get Mugen kits to bump them over 50HP,one hell of a serious bike.Far better in performance and handling than the DT230 - the DT is more street with a lower seat,electric start and other comforts of home.Shit - I'd get the CRM250 now!

Ghost Lemur
30th July 2006, 00:25
Talking of the DT230.

*Cough*Here (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dual-purpose/auction-64940682.htm)

Don't know what I did in a past life to piss the Gods off. But they really are putting the screws in now aye.

What are the builds like on the CRM? From what I've read so far, they seem phenominally reliable (anywhere between 30 and 50k's between builds).

vroom
30th July 2006, 07:56
AJP EN200 from Europe are available here now. Can be road registered and there is a 250 scheduled for release later this year.
38141
As usual from that side of the world all the nice bits are fitted as standard.

Ghost Lemur
30th July 2006, 08:44
Details vroom?

Motu
30th July 2006, 10:26
My DT230 has 25,000km on the clock,the previous owner used it only for adventure and trail rides with a mechanical speedo (the speedo is rear wheel driven,so lowering the gearing puts the trip meter way out,essential for adventure rides) So it has done maybe 30,000km and has never been apart - top end rebuilds are a myth with these late model 2 strokes,they have far longer engine life than camparable 4 strokes.THe DT has a seat heigth of 865mm,I don't know what the CRM is.I'm 5' 7'' and 865mm is perfect for me.

SDU
30th July 2006, 13:02
The XT has a drum brake at rear (why I'll never know). *Spot the guy with too much time to think about bikes, but no bike to ride*

There are XT250's (the Jap market Serow's) around that have disc rear brakes. I got mine from Falsgraves.- they import a few dual sporters.
Here is my 1993 Serow225.

98tls
30th July 2006, 13:12
why ,do as i did....we lived in the country when i was a laddie and first bike was a sl125 at 9,next was an XL175 then when i was old enough to sit my licence i bought a XL350 and the old man put XL250 stickers on it..passed my test and never looked back.New KLX300 is looking good at $7000.:yes:

inlinefour
30th July 2006, 13:13
NZ is a relatively small place, hence the amount of 2nd hand bikes are limited. It took me ages to find my 1998 TT350f (yes, I have a full licience), but unfortunately the damn thing was stolen. I know very little about 250cc bikes and looking at tardme, most of them are not street legal and if your looking for a more modern bike, then you might need a bit more $$$? I was pretty unsure about buying a DRZ, cannot say I was that keen on the idea of buying a Suzuki, now there are 3 of them in the garage. The DRZ400 is a mint bike for its size and I'd recommend it to anyone. I saw the new XR250 down at the local dealer and it looks like a very nice bike. But once again, your going to need more $$$ to get it. Its not the ideal world out there, but we all make do the best we can eh.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dual-purpose/auction-63691471.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dual-purpose/auction-64362377.htm

Ghost Lemur
30th July 2006, 17:21
The more I stare at that CRM the more it seems like the perfect bike for me.

Wolf
30th July 2006, 20:24
The more I stare at that CRM the more it seems like the perfect bike for me.
FFS buy it! You know you want to...

All the best in your search.

Ghost Lemur
30th July 2006, 21:03
FFS buy it! You know you want to...

All the best in your search.

Hehe

Believe me I'm try to make that very thing possible as we speak.

There's one thing that potentially worries me. Not with it's current state, but as a future consideration. That's the fact that it's the AR version and has all sorts of electronics ongoing on relating to the engine. It was only in the AR version (MKIV). Being a rare bike is one thing but a rare version of a rare bike with special electronics could equal incredible expense if anything goes wrong.

Of course I could just be telling myself that to soften the blow incase I'm unable to get my hands on it.

Ah well if it's meant to be mine it will be. Might have to pm Motu regarding the AR system. The CRM250 site had good info on what the system is and does, but not on expense/dificulty if things go wrong, nor likely hood of that happening.

Still on the hunt for any longterm reviews if anyone comes across one.

vroom
31st July 2006, 11:57
AJP 200EN FEATURES:

200cc 4 stroke, SOHC, 2 valves, air/oil cooled Enduro. 5 SPEED, CDI Electric start. 8 LITRES (2litres reserve) Paioli hydraulic forks 41mm diameter,

Paioli progressive action shock, 310mm stroke. Front Disc 255mm 2 piston caliper, Rear Disc 210mm 4 piston caliper, Reikon bars,

Michelin Enduro COMPIII, 90/90-21 Michelin Enduro COMPIII, 120/90-18, 105 Kg, Land Transport Complied.

*Hand guards optional extra*

Otis243
1st August 2006, 01:17
Hehe
There's one thing that potentially worries me. Not with it's current state, but as a future consideration. That's the fact that it's the AR version and has all sorts of electronics ongoing on relating to the engine. It was only in the AR version (MKIV). Being a rare bike is one thing but a rare version of a rare bike with special electronics could equal incredible expense if anything goes wrong.

Of course I could just be telling myself that to soften the blow incase I'm unable to get my hands on it.

Ah well if it's meant to be mine it will be. Might have to pm Motu regarding the AR system. The CRM250 site had good info on what the system is and does, but not on expense/dificulty if things go wrong, nor likely hood of that happening.

Still on the hunt for any longterm reviews if anyone comes across one.

I had a CRM250AR in the UK for a year or so and thought it was a fantastic trail bike. However, I did change it for a Gas Gas EC300 as I rarely took it on the road but mainly entered enduros on it.

The reason for changing was to get firmer suspension and less weight. I changed the fork springs and revalved but it didn't make that much difference. I changed the exhaust (original was very heavy) and the steel tank and frame are heavy too... well compared to the Gas Gas !

If I was looking for a trail bike to do a short daily commute on it would be right up at the top of my list. A friend of mine had one (also an AR) who did the Lands End trial on his then rode it 350 miles home at the end of the event, with no problems. Way more power than a 4T 250, reliable, Honda build quality etc. etc. and a good maintenance schedule !

I never had any issues with the AR set up on mine and never knew of anyone else having a problem with theirs. They are highly rated in the UK and command a high price, despite their age! The Mk3 is probably the most favoured CRM as it has more top end, but I liked the AR - it had 4T characteristics with all the benefits of a 2 stroke.

Have a look at www.crm250.com and www.leisuretrail.co.uk (click on the CRM link) - when I had mine they had all parts available off the shelf. There is also a CRM yahoo group for more info.

If you'd like any more info from me, let me know.

PS - forget the Mugen tuning parts... they are hellishly expensive ! and if you think you need them then you've outgrown the CRM and need a KTM !

Ghost Lemur
1st August 2006, 10:24
Thanks for the reply Otis243.

Yes I've been reading through the CRM250.com site in detail, as it seems to be practically the only english language site on the CRM.

Also had a bit of a drool over the parts page on leasuretrail site.

Shame I can't read japanese as there seems to be heaps on info etc on Japanese sites.

I do have a couple of questions.

Did (or do) you know of any plastic tanks that fit the AR? Also replacement plastics, are the interchangeable with any other models or would I need to track down CRM plastics?

dnos
1st August 2006, 11:48
dude buy the crm it looks wicked and would be a helluva lot of fun.

Motu
1st August 2006, 12:45
But the DT230 will be a nicer road bike....

The modern multi is a powerfull beast,it can achieve warp speeds in milliseconds - but is still docile enough to ride around town.Not so these MX based street legal 2 strokes.The throttle is an on/off switch,and the default is on...it is also wired through your heart to the most basic animal part of your brain - this means when the throttle switch is on,it will stay on! They just want to go,every traffic light is a hole shot out of the gate and you flick through the gears until you see a corner...who cares where it goes,it's a corner...pity about no berm but you nail it anyway.The DT230 should be a nice city bike - light and nimble,starts and stops like lightning....but I find it frustrating and a little...um,dangerous.

Good luck - that DT230 has the original tyres by the way.

Wolf
1st August 2006, 15:03
The throttle is an on/off switch,and the default is on...it is also wired through your heart to the most basic animal part of your brain - this means when the throttle switch is on,it will stay on! They just want to go,every traffic light is a hole shot out of the gate and you flick through the gears until you see a corner...who cares where it goes,it's a corner...pity about no berm but you nail it anyway.
That sounds like me on my old TS125 - years ago, before I got old and overly concerned about my mortality...

Ghost Lemur
1st August 2006, 15:25
Well I called both Superior and Dirt Action Services regarding prepurchase inspections.

Superior quote "about $30 to look around it". The mechanic sounded completely uninterested and when I mentioned a compression test he mentioned $70+ depending on how hard it was to get to the plugs.

DAS on the otherhand. Phil was fantastic and very friendly over the phone. When I mentioned wanting to get a prepurchase inspection done he immediately quoted $30. When I asked what that included (understandable cautous considering the response from Superior's mechanic). Phil immediately ran off the list of things you expect and want to hear would be done during such inspections. Compression test. Gearing (and something I can't remember) checked, k's done validated (compared to wear etc), frame checked, etc, etc.

Try guessing who's going to get my business. Don't get me wrong, nothing against Superior. Had a good friendly chat to one of the salesman Scott there on Saturday. Maybe the mechanic was flat out and really just didn't want the hassle of a no money job. But when I'm looking at borrowing money in order to get this bike it is vital to me to know I'm not getting a lemon. As I know nothing about them, I have to entrust that judgement to someone else. So Phil wins hands down.

Talking of borrowing money. Talked to the bank today as I hadn't heard back from them. Yes they've received my application, and for some reason they have a huge backlog so it's going to be Thursday at the earliest that I hear back. Shouldn't be a worry *knocks on wood with his fingers crossed* as I'm looking at borrowing less than I have in my savings acc.

Still I'm impatient.

It's not like I'll even be able to ride it immediately anyway, as I promised the soon to be Mrs Lemur that if I get it I wont ride it until after the honeymoon. Which is fair enough (hense why I made the "sweetner" offer in the first place). No chance of risking broken bones before Fiji. :sunny:

Will have the added benefit of giving me a chance to clear out the garage and start getting some essential tools, as my currently tool collection consists of a hammer and a couple of screwdrivers.


Motu - Your discription of these sort of bikes made me grin ear-to-ear like a school boy getting his perv in. If you had mentioned the go ANYWHERE aspect of these machines you would have summed up exactly why I've been wanting to go this path rather the more common sprotbike route.

Ghost Lemur
1st August 2006, 16:20
That sounds like me on my old TS125 - years ago, before I got old and overly concerned about my mortality...

Hehe.

It's exactly because I'm now old(er) and overly concerned about my mortality which makes me feel comfortable about owning such a machine.

I can have fun, while not doing taking the incredibly stupid risks I would have taken in my teens.

Otis243
1st August 2006, 22:15
Thanks for the reply Otis243.

Shame I can't read japanese as there seems to be heaps on info etc on Japanese sites.

I do have a couple of questions.

Did (or do) you know of any plastic tanks that fit the AR? Also replacement plastics, are the interchangeable with any other models or would I need to track down CRM plastics?

No problem...

I remember struggling with Japanese web sites when I had mine LOL !

Regarding the tank, I have heard of people fitting older CR250 tanks to the CRM, but it is not a simple job. You also have to fit the seat and the rad shrouds from the CR too and all the mounts are different. The mounts for the seat being a major pain. I wouldn't bother, as it all sounds too much hassle and expense. I did the Welsh 2 day enduro, other enduros and did loads of 4 hour hare & hounds races on mine. Fell off more times than I can remember and the tank wasn't damaged. I did consider and I do know of people who stuck clear sticky back plastic / fablon on their tanks to protect the paint.

As for the plastics, the side panels and rad shrouds were in better condition when I sold it, when it was @ 7 years old, than the Gas Gas ones were after only 3 days ! When it was 3 days old I did an event near Aldershot which was very sandy and wet. The wet sand scratched the hell out of the plastics. It is a good idea to use sticky back plastic or number backgrounds on the plastics to protect them...

Unless the plastics are in poor condition before you buy it I wouldn't worry too much. I am not aware of any that are interchangable or any aftermarket ones so it would probably be track down genuine Honda ones. Liesuretrail's web site list red Mugen ones available but I am not sure if they have other colours.

Otis243
2nd August 2006, 00:15
Just found some pics of my CRM:
The day before I sold it...
38397

cooneyr
2nd August 2006, 08:56
DAS on the otherhand. Phil was fantastic and very friendly over the phone.

The guys at DAS have been great when I've dealt with them too.


It's not like I'll even be able to ride it immediately anyway, as I promised the soon to be Mrs Lemur that if I get it I wont ride it until after the honeymoon. Which is fair enough (hense why I made the "sweetner" offer in the first place). No chance of risking broken bones before Fiji. :sunny:

Off toppic but this is kinda close to home for me. In the Nov before our Feb wedding we were booking flights to Sweden (our honeymoon) and the day after we paid I ruptured my right achilies. Ended up running back to the flight place to get the cash back (got all of it thank god). Ended up on cruches with a removable cast until a week before the wedding and was just walking at our wedding. Ended up with a honeymoon of two days around Golden Bay - couldnt do much. That was two years ago but we managed Sweden in Jan/Feb this year - minus 30 degrees above the artic circle, a couple of hours on a snowmobile in minus 20 at 75kph and lost my wedding ring (got a swedish one now though).

Lifes great aye! :yes:

Keep the bike legal and come riding with us. See the waimak threads under meetings and events.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=32426
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=31732

Cheers
R

Wolf
2nd August 2006, 10:03
It's exactly because I'm now old(er) and overly concerned about my mortality which makes me feel comfortable about owning such a machine.

I can have fun, while not doing taking the incredibly stupid risks I would have taken in my teens.
That resonates with conversation I had with our manager (also keen on bikes and owns a collection of off-roaders - no I'm not inviting him to join KB! For all I know he's already lurking here, seeing what I get up to...)

He made the point that on a smaller bike you can go hard without too much risk of losing your licence. You can rip open the throttle (on/off switch) and rip around the place to your hearts content whereas on a larger bike you've got to take it easy as a sudden twist on the throttle will put you into "instant loss of licence" speeds before you realise it.

We compared notes on various bikes we've ridden that you had to be mindful of - because 50mph felt like 50kph and you could get up to 160 km/h literally without realising it, and it'd feel like only 100km/h.

He actually prefers the smaller bikes (he's got at least one warp-speed capable larger bike) because he can open them up and have a good play.

I tend to agree with him. I have tons of fun ripping up through the gears on the XT and opening out the throttle - and I have no fear of losing my licence over it.

If I rode a decent-sized sports bike like I ride my XT, I'd be trying to take corners at insane speeds and racing down the straights at loss of licence velocity - only a matter of time before I'm hospitalised, dead or walking home.

warewolf
2nd August 2006, 12:12
on a smaller bike you can go hard without too much risk of losing your licence.Agree with the sentiment but it's not all about your licence.

On a lighter, less powerful bike, the rider has a greater power-to-weight over the bike, so mistakes can be more readily corrected. Capabilities can be explored more easily.

You cannot make up for poor cornering technique by banging the throttle open on the straights, particularly uphill. So one works on maintaining one's momentum. :scooter:

Wolf
2nd August 2006, 12:36
Quite right, warewolf, there are those considerations and others. The conversation with our manager was more weighted towards super quick bikes that are so smooth handling that you ride looking at the speedo to make sure you haven't inadvertently pulled the throttle hard open in a moment of primal bike-riding ecstasy.


You cannot make up for poor cornering technique by banging the throttle open on the straights, particularly uphill. So one works on maintaining one's momentum.
That's why squids like RGV250's isn't it? So they can compensate for their inability to corner by reaching warp 9 in 2.1 seconds on the straight up a hill into a head wind... :D

warewolf
2nd August 2006, 13:14
super quick bikes that are so smooth handling that you ride looking at the speedo to make sure you haven't inadvertently pulled the throttle hard open in a moment of primal bike-riding ecstasy.BTDT (haven't we all?)

Simply relaxing on a modern bike does that! :gob:

Wolf
2nd August 2006, 14:16
Simply relaxing on a modern bike does that! :gob:
Modern? Shit, a well-made 1980s one-litre shaft-drive will do it...

Damn good thing they can stop equally well.

Ghost Lemur
2nd August 2006, 14:18
I certainly of the current opinion that there's more positives going the small bore DS route than any of the other options I've considered.

Cooneyr - Yes I've been following the offroad adventure of the ChCh crew with complete jealousy. I can't wait to get out there and join in.

Had a really good chat to the current owner of the CRM last night. He's taking the CRM to DAS today for the once over.

So now it's just a case of waiting on the bank. Trying not to get too excited, but it's too late, I'm already there.

HURRY UP AND GIVE ME MONEY MR BANKMAN.

SDU
3rd August 2006, 14:25
Good luck on getting the loan & the CRM.
Hope to see you on KB rides soon.

Ghost Lemur
3rd August 2006, 16:24
I couldn't hold it any longer. Some other gammy bastards started bidding on my bike.

So after getting a call from the bank ("loans pretty much confirmed but we need a couple of pay slips"). I hit the buy now (after first checking with the soon-to-be Mrs Lemur, don't want a divorce before the wedding). Just could not bear the thought of someone else riding MY bike.

Is it normal to already have an emotional attachment to one's baby BEFORE even having it?

Damn I'm going to enjoy summer. BRING IT ON.

Wolf
3rd August 2006, 17:31
Is it normal to already have an emotional attachment to one's baby BEFORE even having it?
It is for me...




but I'm widely regarded as abnormal...

"I couldn't hold it any longer, GOD, I was crazed.
I mean the feeling came upon me like a tidal wave"

All the best with your bike.

Motu
3rd August 2006, 19:45
Oh goody,I've been waiting for this - you FOOL,you should have got the DT230!!!!!:angry: :nono: .Now you won't have electric start,traction control,a low seat,a digital speedo with clock and twin reversable trip meters.I tried to tell him,but oh no,Mr Impatient has to spend his money right now!.But you'll show a clean set of heels to the DT230 both on and off road.

I'm waiting for your first ride,and the first taste of the 2 stroke hit - you'll be back here stammering about....about how....how....

:gob:

Ghost Lemur
3rd August 2006, 20:01
Oh goody,I've been waiting for this - you FOOL,you should have got the DT230!!!!!:angry: :nono: .Now you won't have electric start,traction control,a low seat,a digital speedo with clock and twin reversable trip meters.I tried to tell him,but oh no,Mr Impatient has to spend his money right now!.But you'll show a clean set of heels to the DT230 both on and off road.

I'm waiting for your first ride,and the first taste of the 2 stroke hit - you'll be back here stammering about....about how....how....

:gob:

:yes::D:devil2::eek::bleh:

Just got off the phone is Nigel.

Nigel gave me gave me a run down of what Phil thought about it when he took it into see him at DAS. Needless to say it's the mintest he's seen. Phil HAD to take it for a blat (prepurchase testing for my benefit of course). Extremely impressed he was.

Will call Phil tomorrow and say thanks for doing the check and arrange to fix him up for the damages. I know where I'll be taking my bike for servicing (at least til I get my garagre sorted) and tyres.

nigelp
3rd August 2006, 20:48
So did you buy it? I see that the one on trademe in Chch has been withdrawn by the seller! It looked a pretty awesome machine, and you cant beat that 2 stroke power!!

Ghost Lemur
3rd August 2006, 22:51
So did you buy it? I see that the one on trademe in Chch has been withdrawn by the seller! It looked a pretty awesome machine, and you cant beat that 2 stroke power!!

That's my baby. :blip:

Just waiting on the loan paperwork to be finalised. I's dotted, T's crossed, etc. Then that smoker will be sitting in my garagre... oh yeah. :yes:

Otis243
4th August 2006, 00:46
:yes::D:devil2::eek::bleh:

Just got off the phone is Nigel.

Nigel gave me gave me a run down of what Phil thought about it when he took it into see him at DAS. Needless to say it's the mintest he's seen. Phil HAD to take it for a blat (prepurchase testing for my benefit of course). Extremely impressed he was.

Will call Phil tomorrow and say thanks for doing the check and arrange to fix him up for the damages. I know where I'll be taking my bike for servicing (at least til I get my garagre sorted) and tyres.

Well done - you wont regret it !

and I am with Motu... looking forward to hearing about your first ride....

warewolf
7th August 2006, 14:54
Oh goody,I've been waiting for this - you FOOL,you should have got the DT230!!!!!:angry: :nono: .
Just for Motu...

Yamaha DT230 (http://www.bikemart.co.nz/modules/catads/adsitem.php?ads_id=1440)

Enjoy the CRM :rockon: sounds neat. The only one I've seen was a completely neglected POS that refused to die...

Wolf
7th August 2006, 15:29
Enjoy the CRM :rockon: sounds neat. The only one I've seen was a completely neglected POS that refused to die...
Sounds like a typical 2-stroke road-trail to me...