400cc shootout [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

gamgee

31st July 2006, 20:33

I've pretty much decided I want to get a 400cc next as the ones I like the look of are in my price range and most of the 600cc ones I like are more than I can afford,
so for the following bikes, which is the best, and worst (yeah I know theres a couple of hondas in there) and what are the known problems with each, just any little bits of info you know would be awesome cheers :rockon:

Honda CBR400RR
Honda VFR400 NC30
Kawasaki ZXR400
Yamaha FZR400

So it's pretty much the racey looking sports 400's I'm not looking at anything pre 1990 or with over about 50,000k's but if you have any other models that you think i should look at, fire away, My order of preference based on looks and sound would go VFR400, CBR400RR, FZR400, ZXR400 but if I were to base it on the fact that I love my current kawasaki's reliability, the zxr400 would be top of the list, so really reliability is one of the biggest points i want in this bike, but a nice looking and sounding bike is always good :blip:

sAsLEX

31st July 2006, 20:35

limbimtimwim

31st July 2006, 20:36

nc35 nc35 nc35 nc35 !

Clivoris

31st July 2006, 20:37

M8,
there's a 1990 FZR on tardme now with a 2,500 buy now that looks o.k but there are some unanswered questions. Sorry but I don't know how to post links. Me caveman with compooooter.

gamgee

31st July 2006, 20:37

nc35 nc35 nc35 nc35 !
can't afford it... although i would like one if someone wants to sell me theres for 4 grand :blip:

gamgee

31st July 2006, 20:41

M8,
there's a 1990 FZR on tardme now with a 2,500 buy now that looks o.k but there are some unanswered questions. Sorry but I don't know how to post links. Me caveman with compooooter.

this one:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=65154440
or this one:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=65065563
:blip:
I'm watching quite a few, but I wanted to know what i was getting into before I commit cash, do the fzr400's suffer the same shitty carb problem as the 250's?
and do the cbr400rr's have the same cam gear thingy as the vfr400's?
plus it's still a couple of months till i get the full licence, but i might by one now and just leave it in the garage till i get my full (tui anyone?)

gamgee

31st July 2006, 20:43

and yeah i know my spelling has turned to crap, i can't be bothered editing though.

Qkchk

31st July 2006, 20:43

nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 nc30 !
X2 Used to own one. Best handling out of all the 400's. Some would even agree it would be 1 of the best handling bikes fullstop.

sAsLEX

31st July 2006, 20:44

X2 Used to own one. Best handling out of all the 400's. Some would even agree it would be 1 of the best handling bikes fullstop.

RC30/RC45?

Jim you there?

gamgee

31st July 2006, 21:08

this one:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=65154440
or this one:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=65065563
:blip:
I'm watching quite a few, but I wanted to know what i was getting into before I commit cash, do the fzr400's suffer the same shitty carb problem as the 250's?
and do the cbr400rr's have the same cam gear thingy as the vfr400's?
plus it's still a couple of months till i get the full licence, but i might by one now and just leave it in the garage till i get my full (tui anyone?)

Dafe

31st July 2006, 21:23

What?????

For that money you can get a GSXR400R 91 or 92 model!

digsaw

31st July 2006, 21:28

i got a CBR 400R with an RR engine in it thats done 48K i thinkin of selling :yes:

Karma

31st July 2006, 21:29

Ok... time for a real answer.

ZXR400. Fantastic bike, plenty of power, easy step up from a 250.

Parts are a little hard to get hold of due to the fact that there aren't many around, but other than specific fairings etc... it's all stock Kawa stuff so bits from the 250s, 600s, and 750s even can sometimes fit (indicators / handlebars etc...)

Small enough bike that you can run it around town, large enough that you can take it out on a coro loop and not worry too much about being left behind.

Word of caution, I'm 6'4" and find the seat height to be too low for my size, on a long ride I get knee cramps after a few hundred km but that's sports bikes for ya...

Reliability is good, no better or worse than other bikes to be honest, but as previously mentioned, only a few of them around as I get the impression a lot of them were raced, so getting parts can be a little tricky sometimes.

Anything else you want to know give me a shout.

kickingzebra

31st July 2006, 21:30

Buy Torques GSXR400.
Mighty gixxer rule the road!!

Dafe

31st July 2006, 21:35

Buy Torques GSXR400.
Mighty gixxer rule the road!!

Yeah!

I got a CBR and a GSXR. I dunno why I bothered with the CBR!
I'm keeping it in case I decide to ride it off the end of the wharf at the vodafone splash festival!

kickingzebra

31st July 2006, 21:40

Yeah, and my 5 year old gixxer outhauls the 05 CBR on the straights.
Torques GSXR is seriously mint, and watching it on the track on friday, it pulls fine too!!
I think he wants $3500 and you know damn well it has been seriously looked after!!

Rizla

31st July 2006, 21:48

If you are interested, I have a Honda VFR 400 (NC30) that I am just about to put on TradeME. It is a real gem. I got it a year ago and has been a great first bike. Am selling as I want to upgrade. It was given a new silver paintjob, so looks mint. In the year I have had it, I have given it a new rear tyre and rear brakes, new chain and rugularly serviced. It has just passed WOF and has new rego. If your interested, give me your email and I will send photos and contact details.
Sorry, I have just seen where you live. Might be a bit hard from the other end of the country.

vtec

31st July 2006, 21:58

Yep, if I was going for a 400 for the road, it would be the nc30 vfr400 hands down. It's the hottest of the 400's, and it's got a cool engine config, and it's got a sweet single sided swingarm, and it's got Honda's very well behaved handling, and Honda's extremely reliable engine.

Dafe

31st July 2006, 22:02

Sorry, I have just seen where you live. Might be a bit hard from the other end of the country.

Not if you put the bike on the "Cyclemove" truck.

[contact Alan on 0274 226568]

limbimtimwim

31st July 2006, 22:16

Parts are a little hard to get hold of due to the fact that there aren't many around, :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Try owning an RVF...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

gamgee

31st July 2006, 22:44

yeah I know quite a bit about the vfr, and it really is the one i want, but I also like the look of the cbr rr, does that use cam gears? are they reliable? handling etc? what about the fzr does it have carb issues like the 250? I hadn't really thought about a gsxr, but yeah i guess i might consider it, but they are just so common :nya: what problems can there be with them, and if you say none, well thats probably going to put me right off them as practically no early 90's bike is problem free

frogfeaturesFZR

1st August 2006, 07:55

I've got an FZR400 and I LOVE it. Goes well not to bad on tyres, great little toy. Plenty of info on the Exupbrotherhood site. :yes:

kickingzebra

1st August 2006, 08:59

Double posted, sorry!!

gamgee

1st August 2006, 08:59

kickingzebra

1st August 2006, 08:59

Of the guys racing 400s in f3, the gsxrs certainly seem to have a reliability issue that the others don't, you see, they start every time!!
Quasi and Torque both have them, and sniper had one.
Ask them what their experiences were like.
CBR is chain driven cams, yes. RVF is supposed to be more reliable than VFR, but if nc30 it is going to be, then get a 90 or newer, before that they were a total dog to work on (nasty springs going everywhere when the head was stripped down, and hard to realign and get back together)

Flame also has an FZR 400 for sale that doesn't look to be a bad bike!

digsaw

1st August 2006, 09:14

CBR is chain driven cams,?????? bullshit, mine is all gears and i think most cbr 400s are gear driven cams

kickingzebra

1st August 2006, 09:21

chain, gear, same shit, doesn't need replacing every 20 km, as opposed to belt. My humblest apologies

Mental Trousers

1st August 2006, 10:02

People will tell you to get what they've had. I've ridden plenty of different 400's but only ever owned a VFR.

The GSXR and ZXR may have a bit more poke, the FZR has slightly sharper handling, etc etc but none of them are as good all round as the VFR. And if you get an NC24/30/35 you get the bling single sided swingarm. Only thing is get rid of the stock mufflers cos sewing machines sound better.

Karma

1st August 2006, 10:35

still would like some decent info on the cbr fzr and zxr please! I mainly just want to know what goes wrong with them, like i know the vfr has a regulator rectifier problem, but what about the other bikes?

Not much goes wrong with the ZXR from what I've found, just the same as any other 12 year old bike.

Make sure you change the oil and chain and you'll be sweet.

gamgee

1st August 2006, 10:36

Goblin

1st August 2006, 10:44

yeah the vfr is nice, but what about the reliability of the others? like what things are known to go wrong?
All sorts of different things go wrong on all the different bikes for all sorts of different reasons! I dont think any one brand is more reliable than the others. Just go test ride all on your short list & find one you're most comfortable with and buy the friggin thing and have some fun!

kiwifruit

1st August 2006, 11:00

All sorts of different things go wrong on all the different bikes for all sorts of different reasons! I dont think any one brand is more reliable than the others. Just go test ride all on your short list & find one you're most comfortable with and buy the friggin thing and have some fun!

Damn skippy!
I couldnt agree more

T.W.R

1st August 2006, 11:14

As Goblin said :yes: but it all boils down to how the bikes have been treated by previous owners, any bike carrying age & that has been through a few owners will have some vices, but thats what it's all about. You may well pick up some issues that the previous owner has had enough of and on the other hand some issues may have been rectified also.

As an all-round bike the NC30 would be the pick of the VFRs & RVF Hondas but ground clearance is an issue along with the limited choice of rubber for the rear as it's an 18inch rim (solved by fitting a RVF rear wheel), but then you loose more ground clearance (solved by fitting a longer rear shock). Plus if it hasn't been de-restricted having 2 cylinders go to sleep at 180kmh isn't pleasant.

A ZXR is a slightly better performer but looses out by having a peakier engine, it has a better front end. The primo model is the ZXR400RRSP but lols try finding one

Karma

1st August 2006, 11:16

A ZXR is a slightly better performer but looses out by having a peakier engine, it has a better front end. The primo model is the ZXR400RRSP but lols try finding one

Yeh that's true, but that's half the fun eh... I know someone on here has one, can't remember the name though... speedygirl or girlygirl or something...

FzerozeroT

1st August 2006, 11:53

Took a mates FZR out on the weekend (to carry a pillion), definitely faster up the top end, but the beauty of the NC30 is you can thrash it like a little bike whan you want to, but if you are having a lazy day you can just leave it in top and roll on to pass traffic. turn in is a lot faster on my NC30 but the front is about 40mm lower than standard! get a couple of rides on each and then decide, I love my NC (but am getting rid of it :bye: ) but mate likes his FZR better.

steved

1st August 2006, 11:59

Word of caution, I'm 6'4" and find the seat height to be too low for my size, on a long ride I get knee cramps after a few hundred km but that's sports bikes for ya...
Thought about raising the ride height? Makes them even more uncomfortable I'd think as you're more horizontal.

steved

1st August 2006, 12:00

Yeh that's true, but that's half the fun eh... I know someone on here has one, can't remember the name though... speedygirl or girlygirl or something...
How do you know if a particular ZXR400 is the SP model? I've been told mine is and would like to know.

Karma

1st August 2006, 12:27

Thought about raising the ride height? Makes them even more uncomfortable I'd think as you're more horizontal.

Ah... I don't mean the ride height, I mean the distance between the seat and the pegs.

Means my longer legs are bent at an awkward angle and causes problems.

Regards whether it's an SP... no idea I'm afraid.

gamgee

1st August 2006, 12:45

wouldn't it say on the vin/ chassis?

T.W.R

1st August 2006, 12:56

How do you know if a particular ZXR400 is the SP model? I've been told mine is and would like to know.

The SP has the front end from the ZXR750R (refined) close ratio 6speed gear box, and larger diameter flatslide carbs compared to the 32mm CV units

HDTboy

1st August 2006, 13:04

I can't be bothered reading most of the crap in here. I will tell you about my CBR400RR though. It's used for both road riding and racing

I bought mine cheap after it had dropped a valve due to a big overrev by the previous muppet owner. A $50 valve had it going mint again (I'm a mechanic).
I had an issue with a rear wheel bearing, but I believe this is specific to my bike.
After setting the tappets it was making respectable power, then the clutch started to slip. I've fixed the clutch, and am not worried about that, it's a normal service item.
While racing at manfield I threw it in the mud a few times and no levers broke. I did destroy the bottom end being a rough bastard though.

For the record, CBR400s have Gear Driven Cams, if you'd like to argue about that I invite you to look at my engine while it's in bits

To summarise, if the bike had been looked after by the previous muppet and myself, it'd be a nice reliable bike. It's only got half the power of a modern 600 and weighs the same. It crashes pretty well. The 18 inch rear wheel hasn't caused me any grief, I found that cycletreads get dunlop GPR-70sp tyres with ease, these are by far the best tyre for little bikes.
Ground clearance isn't a problem on mine, with rearsets fitted, the side stand is the first thing to scrape. they make the knees sore though. I'm 6 foot

If you want to talk 400s go to www.400greybike.co.uk

If I had the choice I'd place the VFR and ZXR 1st equal, then the CBR and wouldn't consider the FZR or GSXR

SPman

1st August 2006, 13:08

.... The primo model is the ZXR400RRSP but lols try finding one
Also the FZR 400SP - same sort of specs -
The VFR is torquier than the IL4's

kickingzebra

1st August 2006, 14:07

If I had the choice I'd place the VFR and ZXR 1st equal, then the CBR and wouldn't consider the FZR or GSXR

But thats just cause gixxers don't look better when covered in mud, unlike your poor CBR!! LOL

Thanks for clearing up the cam thing, I was stuck on belt vs chain as in cars.

sAsLEX

1st August 2006, 14:13

The VFR is torquier than the IL4's

And sounds better

imdying

1st August 2006, 19:04

CBR400RRs are great, they always seems a little bit more polished designwise than the others (but only a little more than the VFR). They're all gear driven cams, and go ok.

ZXR400s are a bit more 'racey' in comparison, a big rougher around the edges. Still go fine though, just don't have the depth of finish of the Hondas.

GSXR400s are much like the ZXR400. They don't have a beam frame which makes them look old tech, but it doesn't affect their handling etc.

FZR400s are a bit argicultural (cheap?) in comparison to the others, but they seem the easiest to get bits for.

The VFR is the nicest looking, single sided swingarm etc. Makes a great noise (compared to any other 400) on an open pipe, the cam gears make them a bit whiney without one. They go good too, maybe not ultimately as quick as the ZXR, but you'd not notice on the road... The RVF is as above, but has an even better finish. Slightly down on power compared to the VFR, but has slightly better torque. By all accounts, a prick to get secondhand parts for.

Whatever you buy, make sure its been looked after. Walk away from anything that looks abused, or if the owner isn't a 'biker'. They all turn to poo pretty quickly if neglected.

Look for one that has had few owners in NZ, and the owner has had it a while and is looking to trade up. That would indicate a positive experience, and hopefully less neglect.

Bonez

1st August 2006, 19:18

Fuck the 4s. Get a single.

kickingzebra

1st August 2006, 21:04

Goose 350!! Good shizzle. Otherwise its motard territory isn't it??

SPman

2nd August 2006, 13:22

FZR400s have a good win record at the IOM......they cant be that bad

_intense_

2nd August 2006, 20:03

dude. GET THE VFR PLEEEEEEASE! then you can bling it with some of the awesome looking schtuff from TYGA... for example.... http://www.tyga-performance.com/pages/NC3035.php then throw some mean as paint on it... and you have a sexy weapon of destruction.. if not the vfr, at least a cbr stick withthe honda ;D

DEATH_INC.

2nd August 2006, 20:16

Nc29's(cbr400) are notorious for crap suspension....but have fantastic engines. Draco's cbr can drag my lard ass up to over 180k in no time, and I can get away from bartmans nc30 (and his whole 60 odd kg) in a straight line. I think I'd go for a 30 though, those bloody V4's make the most flexible power you've ever felt and they handle great too. The 18" rear isn't that much of a prob either.

gamgee

2nd August 2006, 22:16

yeah, i don't know what everyone's on about, i can get a metzler 18" easy as down here

limbimtimwim

3rd August 2006, 11:52

The lovely Bridgestone BT-090 comes in an 18", I assume just for VFR owners.

Toast

3rd August 2006, 12:21

gamgee

4th August 2006, 18:20

Buy a Honda so that there's more ZXR400's on the market for me to buy and race. Apparently they've got the edge on track, and looking at the time sheets from F3 a while back, it seemed very much that way overall.

wouldn't you be better off getting a bike that isn't perfectly good for the road? seems like such a waste taking good bikes off the road

Toast

4th August 2006, 19:48

wouldn't you be better off getting a bike that isn't perfectly good for the road? seems like such a waste taking good bikes off the road

I've seen a few ZXR400s which are still road legal which would've been good track bikes. Having one that I could ride to the track would be a bonus until I buy a van too.

avgas

4th August 2006, 20:09

I tried them all and found the cb400 (or if u want a cafe racer the gb) and the zxr400 the best

Karma

4th August 2006, 20:12

I tried them all and found the zxr400 the best

Damn stright...

Speaking of which, mine will be up for grabs in a few weeks if anyone is looking for one...

Toast

4th August 2006, 20:21

Damn stright...

Speaking of which, mine will be up for grabs in a few weeks if anyone is looking for one...

Piccies? How much? kms? 94, right? condition? full power model?

Karma

4th August 2006, 20:53

Piccies? How much? kms? 94, right? condition? full power model?

Picture can be found in my profile, it's a 94, approx 43ish ks on the clock.

Dunno what you mean by full power, but it goes fast enough for me.

Not sure on price yet, but probably somewhere around the $4k mark, will know nearer the time...

steved

7th August 2006, 09:36

Picture can be found in my profile, it's a 94, approx 43ish ks on the clock.

Dunno what you mean by full power, but it goes fast enough for me.

Not sure on price yet, but probably somewhere around the $4k mark, will know nearer the time...The Japanese bike manufacturers had a gentlemen's agreement to limit 400cc bikes to 53hp from 1993 onwards I think (250s were 40hp)? Previously it was 59hp for the 400cc and 45hp for the 250s.

Karma

7th August 2006, 09:45

The Japanese bike manufacturers had a gentlemen's agreement to limit 400cc bikes to 53hp from 1993 onwards I think (250s were 40hp)? Previously it was 59hp for the 400cc and 45hp for the 250s.

Ah... didn't know that. Don't have a clue to be honest.

sAsLEX

7th August 2006, 10:17

The Japanese bike manufacturers had a gentlemen's agreement to limit 400cc bikes to 53hp from 1993 onwards I think (250s were 40hp)? Previously it was 59hp for the 400cc and 45hp for the 250s.

Somethings rong with your 400 if your only get that out of it!

steved

7th August 2006, 11:58

Somethings rong with your 400 if your only get that out of it!
To be honest, I have no idea what my bike puts out. Looking at bikez.com and a couple of others, it looks as though the ZXR400 is claimed to be 65hp. Don't know why I thought it was supposed to be 59hp :zzzz:

Karma

7th August 2006, 13:15

Yeh that's the claim, I've never had it dyno'd or anything so wouldn't have a clue... it's fast enough to move my lard arse at some decent speeds so can't be that bad :D

mynameis

8th August 2006, 22:13

Yeh that's the claim, I've never had it dyno'd or anything so wouldn't have a clue... it's fast enough to move my lard arse at some decent speeds so can't be that bad :D

The 53hp and 59hp is for VFR and RVF the Hondas. For ZXR 400's the H model (before 1990) is 62hp max and the L model (after 1991) is 65hp max.

But obviously when dynoed it would be a different story. That's the max HP on them. They would be somewhere between 45 to 55 hp. :rockon:

texmo

8th August 2006, 23:14

Twosmokers had 65 rwhp

Karma

8th August 2006, 23:16

Yeh, like I say, never had mine tested, so dunno.

It would probably benefit from a tune up to be honest, but it's just getting the time to do it...

sAsLEX

9th August 2006, 10:10

The 53hp and 59hp is for VFR and RVF the Hondas. For ZXR 400's the H model (before 1990) is 62hp max and the L model (after 1991) is 65hp max.

But obviously when dynoed it would be a different story. That's the max HP on them. They would be somewhere between 45 to 55 hp. :rockon:

The VFR had more than the RVF so where you getting this info mate?