Masterton Safe As Workshop - 7 August 11.00am

[Deano]

I can't see any other threads about the Masterton Workshop, but who is keen to attend ?

Hopefully the weather will be fine and we can ride. Otherwise car pooling would be the go.

Could also go over a few of the issues and discuss a few key points to get a consistant approach - perhaps at Breakers (above Grumpy Mole) on Thursday night 8.00pm ?


Venue :

Copthorne Solway
High Street South
Masterton

7 August 11.00am to 3.00pm

[James Deuce]

See you on Thursday.

[Str8 Jacket]

7th August... Next Monday right? Bummer to shorter notice to rearrange meetings for that day, otherwise I would have been keen.

[skelstar]

Sorry guys, I dont know what this 'safe as' thing is about. Can anyone help?

Cheers

[jimbo600]

Yep I'll be there. Weather looks good for Monday so lets ride like cunts over the hill, and then confer about bike safety in Masterton.

http://metvuw.co.nz/forecast/forecast.php?type=rain&region=nzni

Dunnu if I can make Thur night, but I can do the ride like a cunt thing.

[Deano]

Sorry guys, I dont know what this 'safe as' thing is about. Can anyone help?

Cheers

Who cares, just turn up...we'll brief you on the way.

Actually, there is heaps in here about it - too much - info overload.

In a nutshell:

Workshops are being held across the country to discuss possible road safety initiatives for the future.

They want (to say they have consulted....pffft) feedback from the community about what road safety concerns are paramount, ways to reduce the road toll further, where to focus resources etc.

So we'll see you there then. We need more young, articulate and knowledgable bikers to help have our say. (Just like us mate !! haha)

I just had this e-mailed to me and felt it was quite appropriate.

"In my view, we are in danger of having a wholly disproportionate attitude to the risks we should expect to see as a normal part of life. This is putting pressure on policy making [and] regulatory bodies...to act to eliminate risk in a way that is out of all proportion to the potential damage. The result is a plethora of rules, guidelines, responses to 'scandals' of one nature or another that ends up having utterly perverse consequences.

In responding to such pressures, governments themselves are often attracted to regulatory solutions, both as a tangible demonstration of government concern and because the costs are typically 'off-budget', diffuse and hard to measure. Moreover, each regulatory solution tends to be devised within individual government agencies. Within such policy 'silos', the cumulative impact of regulation across government is poorly understood and rarely taken into account.

In this climate, a 'regulate first, ask questions later' culture appears to have developed. Even where regulatory action is clearly justified, options and design principles that could lessen compliance costs or side-effects appear to be given little consideration. Further, agencies responsible for administering and enforcing regulation have tended to adopt strict and often prescriptive or legalistic approaches, to lessen their own risks of exposure to criticism. This, in turn, has contributed in some areas to excessively defensive and costly actions by business to ensure compliance."

Apparently written by Tony Blair.

[Squeak the Rat]

Written by Gary Banks, Chairman, Regulation Taskforce and Productivity Commission - Australia.


Get in there skelstar, a chance to stick it to the man!

[skelstar]

Im articumalet, not young though.

[Deano]

Im articumalet, not young though.

You're a year younger than me aren't ya so sssshhhhh.

[Jantar]

Having been at the Central Otago one today, allow me to give some advice.

Try to get the KBers spread around as many of the discussion groups as possible.

Have a Kber nominated as scribe for each group. Ensure that all points are written down in a manner as close as possible to what the person raising the point wanted.

De-emphasise speed as being a cause of accidents, but allow that it can affect the outcome of accidents.

Make sure that other accident causing issues are raised. eg fatigue and drug use.

Empasise that the roads are there for ALL users, and that include motorcyclists.

Enjoy the lunch. :yes:

[Deano]

Cheers for that info Jantar.

I have a few other issues to raise also.

Last week I tried to find out crash statistics for Rome, where I understand every second person rides a scooter. I was hoping to show that more bikes on the road equals safer drivers and less accidents, in order to negate the theory that more bikes on the road here will result in higher crash stats.

So far I only know of 3 of us going - is anyone else keen ?

I will be taking the cage if its wet, so can offer a lift if anyone needs one.

[jimbo600]

Well give em hell for me then. I can't go now as I am in Napier with work. Bring up the issue of those crap wire barriers. In europe they have to put plastic covers on the wire bit so that bikers aren't cut in two if they hit them.

Also NZ needs to have a better standard of driving, not a slower one. Driving to Napier yesterday was a debacle. People need to learn that the overtaking lane is for overtaking, not cruising at 80kmh. And if you look in your rear view mirror and see 30 cars stacked up behind you for fucks sake pull over. 30 pissed off car drivers cannot be good for road safety. Also if people want the road toll to come down STAY IN YOUR OWN CUNTING LANE!

Tell them to look at Germany for guidance. Better roads, better drivers, better speeds, lower toll.

[cowpoos]

aria will probally go with ya's....

[Squeak the Rat]

Just catching up on the Whangerei thread... Sounds like it would be a good way to discredit the bikers by busting them speeding to or from event and thereby labelling us all as pro-speeders, not genuine safety advocates.

Speed limit in and out.

Give 'em hell.

[jimbo600]

Watching a TV3 thing tonight on the differences between attitudes in generations and an interesting comment was that apart form the baby boomers all generations did not trust the police. Just a thought on what the speed enforcement issue is doing to police PR.

[Dadpole]

I am still trying to juggle work commitments to get there, but it does not look like I can be there. Well done to anyone who goes though. Any "real world" biker perspectives presented at these workshops can only help the cause.

[Lou Girardin]

Having been at the Central Otago one today, allow me to give some advice.

Try to get the KBers spread around as many of the discussion groups as possible.

Have a Kber nominated as scribe for each group. Ensure that all points are written down in a manner as close as possible to what the person raising the point wanted.

De-emphasise speed as being a cause of accidents, but allow that it can affect the outcome of accidents.

Make sure that other accident causing issues are raised. eg fatigue and drug use.

Empasise that the roads are there for ALL users, and that include motorcyclists.

Enjoy the lunch. :yes:

I'd add to this. Try and be nominated speaker, then you can put our slant on matters. It should be easy, most people, me included, hate public speaking

[Lou Girardin]

Watching a TV3 thing tonight on the differences between attitudes in generations and an interesting comment was that apart form the baby boomers all generations did not trust the police. Just a thought on what the speed enforcement issue is doing to police PR.

So true. And what about the clown who gave himself 9.5 out of 10 as a driver?
He was worst of the lot and far too typical of most drivers. I wonder if anyone from LTNZ/Police/ACC watched it?

[Deano]

Thanks to Rossi Gal, Fizzerman and CrazylittleShit for coming along to put forward a biker's viewpoint.

The focus from the organisers was clearly speed, alcohol and youth, however they did say 'and any other matters that you feel appropriate'....'good stuff' I thought.

The four of us split into different groups - Rossi Gal had a driving instructor in her group who just scoffed at anything suggested like he knew everything - I think she spent half the time telling him to let others have their say.

I had a woman in my group who had been in a crash caused by 'visiting drivers' (to the area). She put forward a large proposal which may have been construed as self promoting a product. (rear window sign indicating a 'visiting driver'.) She produced some interesting stats however, such as 6 - 16 % of road crashes across the country being caused by drivers foreign to the area or country. Most of these crashes would probably be listed as driving too fast for the conditions (speed), thus inflating 'speeding' statistics. So is the root cause 'speed', or lack of knowledge of the area, lack of familiarity with the vehicle (campervans), and possibly lack of skill or competency.

I slipped a few issues regarding road hazards (diesel, effluent unsigned gravel works) with suggestions on how these could be mitigated. Also, use of plastic covers over wire rope barriers, as it is in Europe (thanks Jimbo). Steel service plates, white lines, manhole covers being unecessarily slippery.

The main issue that was consistently identified from the groups was EDUCATION - and education about what your vehicles capabilities are. That the advanced driving course and defensive driving courses are voluntary only - perhaps use of a driving simulator which puts you through a series of 'hazards' and tests your ability to react accordingly.

The blood alcohol level was discussed, with possible options of reducing the permitted level - also more serious penalties for recidivist offenders.

Micro sleeps was an issue of concern also, as was drugs (party pills especially).

Not much focus on speed sorry Helen.

Anyway - I haven't got my full list with me so there were more issues discussed, but as I said - the main focus was EDUCATION. I.E competent and trained drivers.

Well done to Fizzerman who shined as a public speaker - not bad for a boy from the Nui, although it appears the gift of the gab runs in the family.

His classic quote was regarding youth issues - "you can get responsible 15 year old drivers and 18 year old dickheads"

It will be interesting to see if ALL the issues that were raised are put up on the website - I will check them off against my list when it is displayed.

[yungatart]

Thanks for all your info Deano. Its our turn tonight so will let you know what happens.

[Drew]

A very interesting day to say the least.

Deano has to be thanked for arranging the four of us who went.

I was shocked, to say the least, how easy it was to get people on side regarding education of drivers.
It was welcomed by all in attendance as the key to lowering the road toll! Which I'm sure we all agree is a huge step in the right direction.

In my opinion we, (as a group) should be attending more of these things, and the like, because we have the numbers to make up an EXTREEMLY LOUD VOICE!!!
I know that if yet more legislature is brought in we don't like, there will be bitching to the maximum.
So take a bit of time, try to stay current with whats going on, (not as easy to do as said I know.) and put in your five cents.


I for one came away from the day with a feeling of accomplishment, and got the idea so did the others. Lets make a difference to the laws that govern us, rather than just whine to eachother about them.

[cowpoos]

how was the free lunch?

[Deano]

how was the free lunch?

Great for Crazylittleshit - man that boy can eat.

Don't think Rossi Gal was too impressed though.

[Rossi Gal]

haha yeah, couldve been worse. lol. thanks again Deano. great idea and glad i could make it with you guys. i do agree on the point of i think more of us should get involved/go to these things. ya never know, may make a difference

[Macktheknife]

Go you good things go! I am unable to make any of the bloody meetings so please anyone who can, go to them and make a sensible and reasoned contribution that puts our perspective across. Good on those who have made the effort so far, my sincere thanks and support from behind the lines.
Cheers
Mack

[candor]

The results are posted at that "safe as" site. Short n snappy but a bit of bike stuff.

[MSTRS]

Well give em hell for me then. I can't go now as I am in Napier with work. Bring up the issue of those crap wire barriers. In europe they have to put plastic covers on the wire bit so that bikers aren't cut in two if they hit them.

Also NZ needs to have a better standard of driving, not a slower one. Driving to Napier yesterday was a debacle. People need to learn that the overtaking lane is for overtaking, not cruising at 80kmh. And if you look in your rear view mirror and see 30 cars stacked up behind you for fucks sake pull over. 30 pissed off car drivers cannot be good for road safety. Also if people want the road toll to come down STAY IN YOUR OWN CUNTING LANE!

Tell them to look at Germany for guidance. Better roads, better drivers, better speeds, lower toll.
But will anyone listen?
FWIW anyone not brainwashed by the speed bullshit will know you are right.

[James Deuce]

Tell them to look at Germany for guidance. Better roads, better drivers, better speeds, lower toll.

And it used to cost 12,000 Deutschmarks to get a license - in 1983. I bet it's a lot cheaper now thanks to the White Trash Eastern European cousins all being on the dole.

[Deano]

The results are posted at that "safe as" site. Short n snappy but a bit of bike stuff.

The results were 'diluted' somewhat, and no response to my polite enquiry as to why ?

WTF ??!!!

[yungatart]

There is another one being run in Napier - aimed specifically at under 25's. If anyone who is in that age bracket from out of town wants to go PM me for details!