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View Full Version : Oh Noes..... The Rodent's sick already.



Ghost Lemur
8th June 2004, 13:52
Well it's actually a reasonably nice day today, so I thought I'd pull the Rodent out of the garage and turn her over, maybe have a blat around the backyard.

So went into the garage, first thing I noticed was three oil (?) patches. So I wheeled her out on to the concrete slab out back. Started her up and she gutsed black smoke.

Left her to idle, and looked through the engine to see if I could tell what was wrong (bit hard when you have no idea what your looking at). First thing I noticed was a very distinct smell of petrol. and some drops of petrol on the ground under the bike. Looked under the tank and as you'll see in the first pic there this box looking thing leading down from the tank? Well there were some drops of petrol dangling from there. I looked under the bike and drips of oil seemed to be coming out of the tube used to drain the oil.

I also noticed a wet patch on the engine on the right hand side. Don't know if it was there before or not. Also noticed wetness (oil? petrol?) on the left hand side engine, where there's a big screw.

Here's some pics anyway. If anyone has any clues for me. Can take more photo's if needed (still have sis' digital camera).

Big Dog
8th June 2004, 14:53
Did somebody leave the fuel tap on?

If so oil may be from the fuel tap sripping onto other dirty parts and "degreasing" onto your concrete.

When it was at operating temp (with the choke fully in idling smoothly) is it still blowing chunks?
If so put a peice of white card behind the exhaust and rev it up to about 3/4. Take a photo of the result and post. Also a high def well lit shot of the end pipe may help. Also tell me if there are rust colured odorless fluid spots. This would indicate water in your lines or pipes.

What color is the oil in the sight glass, is there enough but not too much when upright?

Is there air bubles or discoloration in the fuel filter?

Big Dog
8th June 2004, 15:07
Photo number three may hold the bad news.
Based on that photo I would have to guess someone at some point has had the head apart and sealed it with gasket goo (a gel used a temporary gasket replacement).
This is bad news becase it looks as though little heed has been paid to how carefully it was applied. Get someone with a little better mechanical knowledge to check and see if you have adequate oil pressure and circulation. It is not uncommon for this kind of repair to block flow holes. Not a problem short term but long term it affects the reliability and performance of your motor. Worst case seized motor.

Motu
8th June 2004, 15:10
Definatly looks like a fuel leak,someone has done a touch up on the engine some time ago with a spray can - the fuel is lifting the paint.You gotta look at that fuel tap to see if it's turning off - just pull a hose off,then sit down on a beer crate with a poor me look on your face and watch for drips...but stay away from mirrors,ok? Then move onto the carb.

FROSTY
8th June 2004, 15:13
impossible to diagnose without the bike hre. Id suggest you left the fuel tap on --or a pipe /gasket in the fuel tap has sprung a leak.
the smoke could just be the excess fuel burning off

Devil
8th June 2004, 15:15
Slight thread hijack here. But my fuel tap has no off. Just on, res, and prime. Is that normal?

pete376403
8th June 2004, 15:20
yup, that is normal for a vacuum operated tap. Intake manifold vacuum opens a diaphragm and allows fuel to flow on either on or res. They are good in that fuel flow is cut off as soon as the motor stops. Prime allows fuel to flow when the engine is not running, ie if you need to fill up the carb(s) if the motor has been run dry, but you wouldn't normally leave it on prime once the engine is running.

Jackrat
8th June 2004, 15:22
Slight thread hijack here. But my fuel tap has no off. Just on, res, and prime. Is that normal?
Yes,It's a vacuum operated tap.
When you start the bike it will open,stop the bike an it will shut.
don't worry about it.

Devil
8th June 2004, 15:26
Yes,It's a vacuum operated tap.
When you start the bike it will open,stop the bike an it will shut.
don't worry about it.
Ok neato, thanks. So I could pull the pipes off the tap when in the 'on' position and nothing will come out? WHEEEEEEEEE.

Big Dog
8th June 2004, 15:45
Ok neato, thanks. So I could pull the pipes off the tap when in the 'on' position and nothing will come out? WHEEEEEEEEE.
Unless your engine is running :moon:

Ms Piggy
8th June 2004, 16:08
Did somebody leave the fuel tap on?

I'm confused now :mellow: I thought you guys had said it's all sweet to leave the fuel tap on? I can't find the previous post where we talked about it though.

Actually what G/L is describing sounds a little like what's been happening with my bike over the last few days but I thought it may be to do with too much lube on my chain last time flicking around & getting on the pipes. Will go see my locals guys tommorrow after my exam! :wacko:

Devil
8th June 2004, 16:10
I'm confused now :mellow: I thought you guys had said it's all sweet to leave the fuel tap on? I can't find the previous post where we talked about it though.
Heya, yeah tis ok. But when the bike is being left for long periods (ie, weeks) it should be turned off.
I wouldnt worry about a couple of days or whatever.

Big Dog
8th June 2004, 16:16
The key here is it is ok if your tap does not leak.

Some tap types leak, others only if left for long periods, others only leak when the gasket wears out.

If yours does not leak you will only need to turn it off when removing the tank or storing for more than a week at a time.

Ms Piggy
8th June 2004, 16:17
The key here is it is ok if your tap does not leak.

Some tap types leak, others only if left for long periods, others only leak when the gasket wears out.

If yours does not leak you will only need to turn it off when removing the tank or storing for more than a week at a time.

Ahhhhhhhhh, ok - got it now. Thanks! :niceone:

Ghost Lemur
8th June 2004, 18:48
Thanks for the replys so far.

Yes the fuel tap was left on iirc. Now know not to do that.

No it didn't seem to keep blowing black once it was left to warm up.

Like the third shot there is also oil? on the left hand side, where there is a huge screw and a second smaller one above it (sorry for the lack of technical detail). I'll go out to the garage and take a photo once the boys are asleep.

This is really frustrating as I had the guy put a new wof on it as a condition of my buying it.

Motu
8th June 2004, 19:36
A WoF has nothing to do with oil or fuel leaks unless the oil is dripping on the floor or over your back tyre and the fuel is not actualy wet - the word is considerable and I consider any leaks should be put under consideration,just my considered opinion.

Sounds like the big nut could be the cam chain tensioner,there could be an Oring to seal this,we need that picture.Oil weeps on a bike of this age are pretty normal,dripping oil is not - give it a good clean and go for a thrash,then check them again - if it's gushing out you have a problem,just a weep is nothing to cry about.

Milky
8th June 2004, 23:12
Thanks for the replys so far.

Yes the fuel tap was left on iirc. Now know not to do that.

No it didn't seem to keep blowing black once it was left to warm up.

Like the third shot there is also oil? on the left hand side, where there is a huge screw and a second smaller one above it (sorry for the lack of technical detail). I'll go out to the garage and take a photo once the boys are asleep.

This is really frustrating as I had the guy put a new wof on it as a condition of my buying it.
IIRC the two large screws in the left hand crankcase cover are the two for timing. the large one at the bottom allows acces to a bolt so you can turn the engine over, and the top one is the viewing hole to check the alignment of those marks :) There may be a small o-ring on one or both of these screws, but I cant remember seeing one from when I last took one apart.

Ghost Lemur
8th June 2004, 23:44
Well the batteries ran out in the damn camera when I went to get a photo. The wetness (oil?) in the earlier photo seems to have dried up.

But on the otherside where those "screws" are on the casing is still damp. Hoping it nothing too serious and, more importantly, something I can take care of myself. I bought this bike solely as a learning tool, both mechanically and riding. So I don't want to throw money I don't have at it which I wont be able to recoup when I sell it off in a year.

I will get pics asap.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, the petrol was just because I had wrongly left the petrol switch on. The oil could be a few thing but most likely a faulty seal? And the smoke was no biggie just an old putter warming up?

You guys are legends. Muchly appreciated.

Two Smoker
9th June 2004, 00:23
Yep best thing to do is what Motu says, clean the bike and give it a good thrashing (even if its like 20 times around the block...) a clean bike makes it easier to diagnose problems, and also lets you see if there is anything wrong with the bike while cleaning it :niceone:

merv
9th June 2004, 08:13
So, correct me if I'm wrong, the petrol was just because I had wrongly left the petrol switch on.

It does mean however that there is a leak in your petrol tap mechanism or the needle valve in the carb is buggered if the petrol is leaking out there. If they were all in good nick and you left the tap on it wouldn't matter.

Ghost Lemur
9th June 2004, 09:07
Anything I should know when cleaning? Tips? Tricks? Tools?

Posh Tourer :P
9th June 2004, 11:14
Not really. Get some good engine degreaser, and dont use it on the paintwork. Dont spray lotsa water at the instruments, and apart from that, go nuts. Kerosene and detergent at a ratio of 2/3 to 1/3 works pretty good as a degreaser, but better than that is a degreaser sold by the warehouse in 4L containers... will remove anything... brilliant. Degreasers generally work best applied dry I have found so far, so do that first.

vifferman
9th June 2004, 11:23
Engine degreaser works really well as an ad hoc stunting tool, if you spray it on the chain goop on your rear wheel, then allow it to be rinsed off onto your tyre. :Offtopic:

By the way - from the original description, I had "alarm bells" going off about the possibility of fuel leaking through the carb into the cylinder and into the crankcase. Not likely, but a possibility nonetheless. Very easy to check for, if you remove the dipstick and chack the oil.

k14
9th June 2004, 11:30
The degreaser from supercheap autos is really good aswell. Costs like $3 and it comes in an aerosol can, so is really easy to apply. Great for washing dirty wheels. Just make sure you wash it off really good or it will make the paint come off.

Dr Bob
9th June 2004, 12:22
If you have one of those pressurised garden sprayers, stick in a degreasing solution (one that you buy or plain detergent) with hot water, pressurise then spray. The long spray head usually allows close application to most hard to get parts. The heat and pressure assist the degreaser.

FROSTY
10th June 2004, 22:51
Im bloody lucky I bought a degreaser gun for my compressor. 100psi air sucking the degreaser sure cleans engines well