Motorcycle registration figures (August 2006)

[Lou Girardin]

Does anyone have the registration figures for the last 5 years at their fingertips? I'm unable to search for them at work.
It would be interesting to compare those figures with fatal/injury accident numbers.
If someone has the same figures for 4wd's, they would provide an interesting couterpoint to MOT's claims about motorcycles.
I'm aiming to formulate some questions for the Whangarei meeting.

[spudchucka]

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/statistics/motor-vehicle-registration/2005/index.html

The site appears to have the info you want, I haven't had time to read through it though. Hope it helps.

[Lou Girardin]

Thanks Spud.

[Brian d marge]

It had everything there , even the three enfield that were sold last year !! You could even tell the fellas conming off the fishing boats and buying a harley ..why else were there so many sold in Invercargil!!!

Very help
Cheers Spud

Stephen

[Lou Girardin]

It's very interesting that annual registrations went from around 5000 in 01 to 12000 in 05 (from memory) yet accident figures have 'plateaued'.
Aren't we clever, safe little bikers.
I wonder why they think we'll start killing ourselves next year? Perhaps they're believing their own publicity. Or, worse, Clive Matthew-Wilson.
It looks like they should start some draconian enforcement of pedestrians and psyclists instead.

[Brian d marge]

Just browsing through those figures Mr Dogg posted, Very interesting reading. Seems that the place to be would be the lower North Island, Riding a blue Suzuki over 60 cc of a 1991 vintage! ( Blue Rf900 maybe??~)

but it breaks the types of vehicles down for cars , ie 27 gazillion mazadas sold , but it doesnt do that for bikes.

You see there were 7 000 odd bikes sold last year and there are about 50 000 bikes on the road, So WHO are buying the things and WHO are appearing in the accident statistics

Anicdotial evidence ( I thought was the born again biker on a harley, ) but seeems they wernt the most sold ??

Wonder if that s possible to find out

1 the breakdown of types of motorcycles sold
2 The break down of motorcycle type in Both injury and Non injury accidents
3 The age of those people listed above ( I have statistics NZ, they reckon the age group 35-50 have the most spending power for transport ),

Then once you have that, you would IMHO have a solid base from which to argue,,,( ie you would know the demographics of the accidents Couple with the demographics of the causes, ie car drivers and cow shit on the road, on a RF900 with limited experience) You would then know the problem and could propose a very good solution.

Just a thought

Stephen

[The Stranger]

I found it interesting at the safeas workshop.
If I heard Ixion correctly, ACC take the cost of all motorcycle accidents and divide this by the number of registered motorcycles to decide that we are evil, all killing ourselves and costing them moon beams. Hence our big ACC content in our registrations compared to cars.

This ignores the fact that many, possibly most bikes are not registered. I know of 3 people whom wont or don't ride bikes on the road (for fear of death) yet have made ACC claims recently as a result of off road motorcycle activity. But of course their costs are being lumped on the registered motorcycles.

So does anyone have the sales figures for off road bikes as opposed to road bike please?

[spudchucka]

So does anyone have the sales figures for off road bikes as opposed to road bike please?
You'd probably have to approach each individual importer to get those figures. Otherwise Customs might be able to give a breakdown or perhaps Statistics NZ.

[davereid]

Yeah, so ACC charges are higher for motorcyclists, because we cost more to patch up after an accident. But often we are the victim of poor driving by other vehicles - Its a case of charging the victim of the crime rather than the criminal.

Hmm... now you can get an ACC payout if you are raped. Maybe women should pay a special ACC levy, cos they can get raped.

[Deano]

You will be lucky to raise this issue as it doesn't really 'fit' with the workshop program. The workshops are so specific, they obviously just want to keep focussing on speed, alcohol and youths.

If you get the opportunity, ask why the 'vulnerable road user' cops the higher ACC levy in their rego, rather than the vehicles doing the damage.

AND, why motorcycles that are not even ridden on the roads affect our stats ? E.G Motorcross and trail

[quickbuck]

AND, why motorcycles that are not even ridden on the roads affect our stats ? E.G Motorcross and trail
AND Farm (I bet a fiver that ATVs are chucked in to corrupt the data some more).

[sAsLEX]

cos they can get raped.

Sorry to dent your innocence but so can you!

[quickbuck]

Sorry to dent your innocence but so can you!
Spooky to think about, but very true.

[Motu]

MX used to be a seperate listing on the ACC payouts....but it's 13 years since I saw that breakdown stats sheet,it could be different now.

[Ixion]

I think that separate listing only applies to formal organised competitions, and claims by "professional" riders. Same as a claim by a rugby player goes against the employment fund if he's an All Black but against the (sport) general fund if it's just Joe Soap playing for his club

[Motu]

Yes,I was surprised it was such a low number of claims.....but then again there are relativly few injuries in an MX,considering what they are doing especialy.Much more interesting was that after the 5 contact ball sports came horse riding as the next biggest payout category.....what sort of ACC levy do they pay,SFA.

[steved]

For those who are interested in such matters, here is the link to the vehicle registrations from 2006. Healthy jump from the 2005 figures. Looks like the buying upswing is continuing unabated. :yes:

Consecutive sales improvements of 15, 20, 28, 20 and 25% for the last 5 years. The bike shops must be having a great time.

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/statistics/motor-vehicle-registration/2006/index.html

[cooneyr]

I found it interesting at the safeas workshop.
If I heard Ixion correctly, ACC take the cost of all motorcycle accidents and divide this by the number of registered motorcycles to decide that we are evil, all killing ourselves and costing them moon beams. Hence our big ACC content in our registrations compared to cars.

This ignores the fact that many, possibly most bikes are not registered. I know of 3 people whom wont or don't ride bikes on the road (for fear of death) yet have made ACC claims recently as a result of off road motorcycle activity. But of course their costs are being lumped on the registered motorcycles.

So does anyone have the sales figures for off road bikes as opposed to road bike please?

I agree completly that this is an arse but what the hell does ACC do about it? How do you collect an ACC levy from non competition/non reg bikes i.e. trail bikes etc etc. Slap a $x000 tax on the sale of all unregisterable bikes? Not gona work perfectly cause would buy a reg equivalent bike then not reg it i.e. a enduro bike that can be reg.

Any bright ideas?

Cheers R

[The Stranger]

I agree completly that this is an arse but what the hell does ACC do about it? How do you collect an ACC levy from non competition/non reg bikes i.e. trail bikes etc etc. Slap a $x000 tax on the sale of all unregisterable bikes? Not gona work perfectly cause would buy a reg equivalent bike then not reg it i.e. a enduro bike that can be reg.

Any bright ideas?

Cheers R

Any bright ideas?
Of course.
make it a no fault no blame system - oh wait, that's what we have now (apparently), except with one exception, you guessed it, motorcycles. It occurs to me that if they just remove motorcycles as a category the problem is gone.

Why try and collect ACC on off road bikes at all. They don't on horses, jet skis, mountain bikes or any other recreational vehicle or activity etc. Thank christ they lump them in with motorcycles - yet.

HT vehicles are invloved in a disproportionately large amount of accidents, why not single them out?

ACC acknowledge that cars are the cause of a lot of the motorcycle accidents, why not single them out?

The stats lie further of course because the big ACC costs are generally when there are more than one vehicle involved and most of the multi vehicle accidents are car fault.

So in short. Keep to the original principal and keep it simple.

[swbarnett]

My question is why do we pay "levies" at all? They're just another way of taxing us. Surely it would be fairer to take things like ACC from the general income/company tax take? After all, we're not levied specifically for hospital costs.

Even if you're bed ridden and never travel on the road you still benefit from the fact that they are there (how does your food get delivered?). This principal of public good can be applied to most things the government adds a levy to.

We need to either reduce taxes or remove levies where it can be shown that the thing we are levied for is of public good.

[cooneyr]

Any bright ideas?
Of course.
make it a no fault no blame system - oh wait, that's what we have now (apparently), except with one exception, you guessed it, motorcycles. It occurs to me that if they just remove motorcycles as a category the problem is gone.

Why try and collect ACC on off road bikes at all. They don't on horses, jet skis, mountain bikes or any other recreational vehicle or activity etc. Thank christ they lump them in with motorcycles - yet.

HT vehicles are invloved in a disproportionately large amount of accidents, why not single them out?

ACC acknowledge that cars are the cause of a lot of the motorcycle accidents, why not single them out?

The stats lie further of course because the big ACC costs are generally when there are more than one vehicle involved and most of the multi vehicle accidents are car fault.

So in short. Keep to the original principal and keep it simple.

OK so your saying just levy all vehicles the same amount regardless of type? Small increase for cars and big decrease for bikes I would expect. This way is doesn't really matter who caused the accident right?

I wonder what the ACC bike levy would be if you calculated ACC's road going bike related costs (i.e. accidents caused by bikes legally on the road) over the number of registered bikes. Would that be less than current? I suspect it would be which is unfair of those who reg their bikes.

Actually what is the levy for HCV's, the same as for cars? If so this makes the ACC bike levys extremely unfair.

Interesting. Anyone got any data on this?

Cheers R

[The Stranger]

OK so your saying just levy all vehicles the same amount regardless of type? Small increase for cars and big decrease for bikes I would expect. This way is doesn't really matter who caused the accident right?

I wonder what the ACC bike levy would be if you calculated ACC's road going bike related costs (i.e. accidents caused by bikes legally on the road) over the number of registered bikes. Would that be less than current? I suspect it would be which is unfair of those who reg their bikes.

Actually what is the levy for HCV's, the same as for cars? If so this makes the ACC bike levys extremely unfair.

Interesting. Anyone got any data on this?

Cheers R

Yes, keep the levy the same across the board, why just single out one group.

Would be impossible to separate out the cost of accidents on road going bikes due to the design of the form - there is no distinction between road bikes and off road. Although off road ACC costs should be paid for from the recreation fund along with horse, jet ski etc etc. But because the form has a space for motorcycle, recreational and farm related motorcycle accidents get lumped in there by the doctor, who a) doesn't know any better and b) doesn't care where the money comes from.

Sorry HCV's???

[cooneyr]

Yes, keep the levy the same across the board, why just single out one group.

Would be impossible to separate out the cost of accidents on road going bikes due to the design of the form - there is no distinction between road bikes and off road. Although off road ACC costs should be paid for from the recreation fund along with horse, jet ski etc etc. But because the form has a space for motorcycle, recreational and farm related motorcycle accidents get lumped in there by the doctor, who a) doesn't know any better and b) doesn't care where the money comes from.

Sorry HCV's???

Well the form needs changing cause it seems like an obvious check and balance on exactly this sort of issue.

HCV's are heavy commercial vehicles i.e. trucks.

Cheers R