Bloody Effin Revenue Collectors

[wkid_one]

Spud - I have a question for you - how long does a cop have to follow you to assimulate a reading of your speed?

Full details later - right now I am writing a letter.

[k14]

Apparantly cops have a special ability to be able to very accurately "estimate" your speed to little or no error whenever they feel like it. So i doubt there is any actual distance that they have to be following you.

Please tell.

[What?]

It used to be 1/4 mile, latterly 400 metres. Is it still? Spud?

[spudchucka]

Spud - I have a question for you - how long does a cop have to follow you to assimulate a reading of your speed?

Full details later - right now I am writing a letter.
Thats not something I've ever really given two hoots about but from memory 2 kilometres is considered more than sufficient distance. I'd have to make some enquiries to give you a 100% acurate answer. I'm not a traffic cop so I have no need to know that stuff verbatim.

[marty]

it's long enough to establish the speed. there is no magic distance. as long as the target car and patrol car are maintaining the same speed, and the patrol car has a calibrated speedo, it is ok. there is heaps of case law on it. i had one where the guy reckoned i was intimidating him into speeding, but the reality is that at any speed over 70km/h, the following car only has to be 28 metres back, and he was in a HSV - i was in my S. he had already been up to 140ish while overtaking a truck doing 80 up the golf course hill at CB, i pinged him for the settled speed of 122, but he still defended it (to no avail) remember, you have (i presume) been charged with 'exceeding 100km/h'. the amount by which you exceed is the only argument you have, and will only go a lesser penalty, unless you were NOT exceeding the speed limit.

[wkid_one]

Thats not something I've ever really given two hoots about but from memory 2 kilometres is considered more than sufficient distance. I'd have to make some enquiries to give you a 100% acurate answer. I'm not a traffic cop so I have no need to know that stuff verbatim.
How is 400m to get from the merging lane, across 3 lanes of traffic, catch me up and pull me over!!! Me thinks it is bullshit....and me is fighting it

[sAsLEX]

Keep us posted Wikd, and heres hoping for a win

[wkid_one]

meh - such is life. I just dispute both the speed (given I had cruise control on) and the manner in which it was done. Fuck - I know he was on a bike but that is one hell of a manuerve to do. We'll see.

Tis only 20 points and $90. But if I can be arsed I will go to court over it....I have never been in a court room....could be fun

[Two Smoker]

meh - such is life. I just dispute both the speed (given I had cruise control on) and the manner in which it was done. Fuck - I know he was on a bike but that is one hell of a manuerve to do. We'll see.

Tis only 20 points and $90. But if I can be arsed I will go to court over it....I have never been in a court room....could be fun
20 points and $90, hhhmmmmm im guessing he/she considered it to be the 110-115 kmh mark???? thats a bit petty.....

[sAsLEX]

not much to loose for a bit of research into the logistics of a court preceeding though TS,

[Andrew]

meh - such is life. I just dispute both the speed (given I had <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=cruise&v=55">cruise</a> control on) and the manner in which it was done. Fuck - I know he was on a bike but that is one hell of a manuerve to do. We'll see.

Tis only 20 points and $90. But if I can be arsed I will go to court over it....I have never been in a court room....could be fun

Let me know how you get on. I'll be very interested to know.

[Lou Girardin]

How is 400m to get from the merging lane, across 3 lanes of traffic, catch me up and pull me over!!! Me thinks it is bullshit....and me is fighting it

That's stretching credibility a tad. We used to work on a minimum of 200 metres once your speed had stabilized behind the offender.
That's worth defending. Try and duplicate the manouevre with a bike and car and video it.
Then again, you could just accept that he'd saved you from killing someone.

[wkid_one]

That's stretching credibility a tad. We used to work on a minimum of 200 metres once your speed had stabilized behind the offender.
That's worth defending. Try and duplicate the manouevre with a bike and car and video it.
Then again, you could just accept that he'd saved you from killing someone.
Yes - doing 110kph on a completed controlled elevated and median barried section of motorway puts HEAPS of people at risk!

[White trash]

....I have never been in a court room....could be fun

Never been in a court room?!

Bro, you're missing out!

[riffer]

Never been in a court room?!

Bro, you're missing out!
For these sort of offences you usually end up in front of a JP at court. If you can present a believable argument they usually let you go.

Not nearly as much fun as getting one over a judge though...

On the other hand, you could always request a full hearing with jury.

See how far you get.

Provided you can handle the legal costs and are willing to go far enough to be a thorn in the court's arse, I reckon you should give it a go :yes:

[k14]

Doesn't the state pay your fees if you win?

[spudchucka]

Doesn't the state pay your fees if you win?
If you win you won't be charged Court costs. The state won't pick up the bill for any solicitors you have engaged to act on your behalf.

[spudchucka]

meh - such is life. I just dispute both the speed (given I had cruise control on) and the manner in which it was done. Fuck - I know he was on a bike but that is one hell of a manuerve to do. We'll see.

Tis only 20 points and $90. But if I can be arsed I will go to court over it....I have never been in a court room....could be fun
Did he fine you $90.00?? Doesn't sound right, 10 - 15kph over is $80, it then jumps to $120 for 15 - 20kph above the speed limit. There is no $90.00 fine for speeding. If he has writen $90.00 on the ticket it will be waived by the infringement bureau.

[moko]

Only time I got done for speeding was when some bastard cop lied through his arse and got 3 of us nicked for f**k-all,total farce.
Having said that on the whole they`ve been pretty good and I`ve been let off a couple of times when I didn`t deserve to so it evens out I guess.
Traffic Cops here film you,complete with speed read-out,and you`ll get shown a replay in the car so`s you dont waste everyone`s time arguing the toss.There are new portable road-side cameras now that you dont stand a chance against,if you see one and you`re speeding then tough sonny it`s already got you so no point slowing down.Fixed roadside ones measure your speed over a set of road-markings,bloody dangerous as if you dont see them until late you can stand on the brakes and bring your average speed down over the length of the markings.........and cause a pile-up doing it.Very latest ones can measure your average speed over quite a long distance so if you think you`re a smart bastard seeing the camera then you just better hope you didn`t miss one ten miles down the road cos that`s the one that`ll have started timing you.Scariest bit is that there are often no humans involved at all,camera goes off,sends info directly to computer in Wales which stores the pic in case you appeal and sends out your penalty notice.

[KATWYN]

Just drove from Orewa to Mt Roskill over to Otahuhu
and back again. Saw so many cops...they are everywhere!
and thats not counting the ones that hide their cars behind
the bushes on the road side. (sorry Spud, but I have seen it
- at least once- but I have still seen it )

and of all the cops I saw (I didn't count them) 3 cops had their
lights flashing to pull someone over

This was only two hours of driving in town.

[MD]

Just drove from Orewa to Mt Roskill over to Otahuhu
and back again. Saw so many cops...they are everywhere!and thats not counting the ones that hide their cars behind
the bushes on the road side. (sorry Spud, but I have seen it
- at least once- but I have still seen it )

and of all the cops I saw (I didn't count them) 3 cops had their
lights flashing to pull someone over

This was only two hours of driving in town.
There's a bright side to this. If they are all up there, then we folk down here are happier. Be nice to them, make them welcome, buy them coffees whatever its takes to encourage them to stay in your neck of the woods :laugh:
MD

[KATWYN]

I have to admit, on that particular outing, EVERYONE seemed
to be doing the speed limit! something must be working!

[wkid_one]

Did he fine you $90.00?? Doesn't sound right, 10 - 15kph over is $80, it then jumps to $120 for 15 - 20kph above the speed limit. There is no $90.00 fine for speeding. If he has writen $90.00 on the ticket it will be waived by the infringement bureau.
Typo it will be $80 - but he is posting the ticket as he didn't like to stand where I stopped - hahahahaha!

[dangerous]

If he has writen $90.00 on the ticket it will be waived by the infringement bureau.

Mate, you must get a bit pissed at all the questions aye? But what the hell heres another one........ If the demerit point number hasent been ringed then will they still load em on to your licence?? (in the case of speeding)

[marty]

Mate, you must get a bit pissed at all the questions aye? But what the hell heres another one........ If the demerit point number hasent been ringed then will they still load em on to your licence?? (in the case of speeding)
yes - ringing the demerits is not compulsory - it is there for your information only.

[merv]

There's a bright side to this. If they are all up there, then we folk down here are happier. Be nice to them, make them welcome, buy them coffees whatever its takes to encourage them to stay in your neck of the woods :laugh:
MD

Amen, you Jafas can have all the HP cops in the country as long as they stay out of our way.

[spudchucka]

I have to admit, on that particular outing, EVERYONE seemed
to be doing the speed limit! something must be working!
Funny that, wonder why???

[spudchucka]

Mate, you must get a bit pissed at all the questions aye? But what the hell heres another one........ If the demerit point number hasent been ringed then will they still load em on to your licence?? (in the case of speeding)
Like Marty said, no need to ring it, anyone that can read can figure out for themselsves what demerits they are up for.

By the way I don't mind fielding questions if you guys don't mind that the answer won't always be the one you might have hoped for.

[igor]

Thats not something I've ever really given two hoots about but from memory 2 kilometres is considered more than sufficient distance. I'd have to make some enquiries to give you a 100% acurate answer. I'm not a traffic cop so I have no need to know that stuff verbatim.

who r u the iraqi mis-information minister. :bash:

400 metres it says for doing a pursuit cheque in police Policy which came over from MOT policy unless of course u r an ex City Council cop and its anything goes. :bleh:

if ya experienced copper, which it sounds like most of u guys are not you can do an estimated speed :banana:

awaiting replies with me flame proof ex MOT suit on ready for the bleating from coppers who were school boys when I was playing Tag with motorists.

Go the Highway Extortion. :third:

[Ghost Lemur]

*pulls comfy chair closer and grabs some popcorn* :lol:

I always like a good show.

[marty]

so where is this 400m policy found igor? i've never seen it.

[spudchucka]

400 metres it says for doing a pursuit cheque in police Policy which came over from MOT policy unless of course u r an ex City Council cop and its anything goes. :bleh:
Seeing as you appear to be some sort of nit picking tosspot, I'll play your silly game.

In the context of your above paragraph "cheque" should actually be spelt "check".

So my advice to you is to read back through the posts and "check" what I said about this topic. I don't know for sure because I don't give a fat rats arse about that sort of crap and would not for a moment consider issuing a ticket in that manner to anyone unless they were a burgler, thief, rapist, drug dealer or a nit picking tosspot. :finger: :finger: :finger:

[wkid_one]

Seeing as you appear to be some sort of nit picking tosspot, I'll play your silly game.

In the context of your above paragraph "cheque" should actually be spelt "check".

So my advice to you is to read back through the posts and "check" what I said about this topic. I don't know for sure because I don't give a fat rats arse about that sort of crap and would not for a moment consider issuing a ticket in that manner to anyone unless they were a burgler, thief, rapist, drug dealer or a nit picking tosspot. :finger: :finger: :finger:
Wooo Wooo - I am starting to enjoy this thread now!

[KATWYN]

Funny that, wonder why???

Well, if that is going to be the result of the ticketing campaign
that is great. It will definitely be a positive thing overall for
everyone, including the police & ambos (my mum was a
paramedic for years and never really speaks about the road
trauma side of it) but the tit bits she has said really makes
you think twice about what happens in a vehicle accident-

She has said that cars are nothing more than moving coffins.

I still have a problem with driving a car and having to look at the
speedo too often, to maintain speed though.....

[MD]

*pulls comfy chair closer and grabs some popcorn* :lol:

I always like a good show.
yep, pass the popcorn please.

Spud quote: "By the way I don't mind fielding questions if you guys don't mind that the answer won't always be the one you might have hoped for."

Spud, you've got stamina I'll give you that. So while you're answering silly questions then; who did shoot JFK;how is Elvis and when's he likely to leave the building and can I have next week's Lotto numbers please. :spudwhat:

[Lou Girardin]

Pursuit checks, a forgotten art. But then they actually trained us to do them, and drive properly, and ride properly. Those were the days.
BTW. Katwyn, why do you think everyone doing the speed limit is a good thing?
It hasn't helped the road toll.

[rettun]

Spud, is there a law that if you follow someone for over 2km then you cant ticket them as its "stalking"?

Also, do you get demerits for licence breaches on restricted licence?

Thanks :)

[igor]

so where is this 400m policy found igor? i've never seen it.

point proven.

lack of training these days, programed to right tickets and not use common sense. :killingme

go ask Leo, he should no.

[igor]

Seeing as you appear to be some sort of nit picking tosspot, I'll play your silly game.

In the context of your above paragraph "cheque" should actually be spelt "check".

So my advice to you is to read back through the posts and "check" what I said about this topic. I don't know for sure because I don't give a fat rats arse about that sort of crap and would not for a moment consider issuing a ticket in that manner to anyone unless they were a burgler, thief, rapist, drug dealer or a nit picking tosspot. :finger: :finger: :finger:

hook, line and sinker. your easy to bait that a rainbow trout at fairy springs in rotovegas.

as for the spelling its a trade mark of mine to wind up anally retentive spell checkers. you bit again

I don't do traffic either, but it was fun seeing how easy ya bite :blah:

it appears with your attitude you need to mellow out a little and not take life so serious :love: :wavey:

[igor]

Pursuit checks, a forgotten art. But then they actually trained us to do them, and drive properly, and ride properly. Those were the days.


Lou it appears that u show no consideration for these wee fellas feelings making comments like this.

Have a long hard think before you make comments like this as some of these wee fellas take life a bit serious and may not be able to sleep after ya hurt there feelings.

now if they don't sleep well, they go to work all grumpy and will take it out on Mr Joe Public.

PS. I agree with what ya said though. :not:

hows old brockie. has he been up to see ya and is he still carrying that 12 volt iron on his bike so he can stop and iron his shirts every 60kms

[spudchucka]

BTW. Katwyn, why do you think everyone doing the speed limit is a good thing?
It hasn't helped the road toll.
It has!

Convince us that raising the speed limit would have a positive effect on the road toll.

[spudchucka]

yep, pass the popcorn please.

Spud quote: "By the way I don't mind fielding questions if you guys don't mind that the answer won't always be the one you might have hoped for."

Spud, you've got stamina I'll give you that. So while you're answering silly questions then; who did shoot JFK;how is Elvis and when's he likely to leave the building and can I have next week's Lotto numbers please. :spudwhat:
Stamina yes but no crystal ball so you'll have to pick your own lotto numbers. Elvis says to say hi, he won't be leaving anytime soon and that he is sorry for shooting JFK.

[spudchucka]

Spud, is there a law that if you follow someone for over 2km then you cant ticket them as its "stalking"?

No.


Also, do you get demerits for licence breaches on restricted licence?

Yes, 25 demerit points for each breach of learner / restricted licence conditions.

[spudchucka]

hook, line and sinker. your easy to bait that a rainbow trout at fairy springs in rotovegas.

as for the spelling its a trade mark of mine to wind up anally retentive spell checkers. you bit again

I don't do traffic either, but it was fun seeing how easy ya bite :blah:

it appears with your attitude you need to mellow out a little and not take life so serious :love: :wavey:


anyone no where i can buy a P
You been taking too much of this stuff?? Would explain the irrational dribble you are currently posting.

Am I a school boy? Not since 1982, you do the math. Your limited grasp of the english language suggests you are either illiterate, an imbicile or a teenager who has just progressed from using text speak to some form of internet pigeon english.

Do something constructive, go suck a fart out of your arse then burp into an open flame.

[spudchucka]

(my mum was a paramedic for years and never really speaks about the road trauma side of it) but the tit bits she has said really makes you think twice about what happens in a vehicle accident-

She has said that cars are nothing more than moving coffins.
Humans can and do come apart in quite spectacular ways as the result of crashes. Its something that every road user needs to remember.

[Firefight]

Do something constructive, go suck a fart out of your arse then burp into an open flame.


Hey now come on Spud, the NZFS is working hard to promote fire safety in NZ homes, if you are going to hand out that sort of advice atleast caution it with a ""Do out side """, but other than that a dam good reply.


Firefight.

[igor]

Am I a school boy? Not since 1982, you do the math. Your limited grasp of the english language suggests you are either illiterate, an imbicile or a teenager who has just progressed from using text speak to some form of internet pigeon english.

hey spuddy - i left school on 1981. hey u could of bean in the same class as me when u were a second year fifth.

what school did ya go 2

go Taupo-nui-a-tia :scooter:

yawn. time to step back sit on the side line again for a few months.

bye

[spudchucka]

Hey now come on Spud, the NZFS is working hard to promote fire safety in NZ homes, if you are going to hand out that sort of advice atleast caution it with a ""Do out side """, but other than that a dam good reply.


Firefight.
Humble apologies. Any future reference to the belching of farts near open flames will carry a suitable warning. Have to say though that spontaneous human combustion should be emcouraged in some individuals as a healthy passtime. Healthy for the rest of society that is.

[Firefight]

Humble apologies. Any future reference to the belching of farts near open flames will carry a suitable warning. Have to say though that spontaneous human combustion should be emcouraged in some individuals as a healthy passtime. Healthy for the rest of society that is.


Nice one mate !! :2thumbsup :killingme

F/F

[Funkyfly]

Good to see cops that ride and even better participating on this forum.

Even if I sense the kinda of attitude that gets me worked up....be :calm:

I like most people that often like to travel above the legal speed limit have had my fair share of run ins, I have also been unfairly treated on 3 occasions by "officers of the law" resulting in loss of license and a time court appearance (which I defended myself and got off the stupid charge) all of which cost me time, stress and money because some dumbass's thought they were god (power tripping)

However if I added up all the times I have speed, the couple of times I have outrun cops plus all the other illegal moves etc and decided to pay for em I would have to declare bankruptcy!

So at this stage im winning and cant really complain.

There have even been a couple of times when i am grateful to see cops on the road.

Cops are a necessary evil as I see it.

Now comes the interesting part......

Due to the number of times I have been picked on unfairly and the new "attitude" of cops, I have decide to on a couple of occasions make a run for it. I like to think I don't speed off at break neck speed in a reckless manner, but rather use the bike to its full advantage, passing cars where a cop car cant etc, This has saved me thousands of dollars, and provided huge doses of that natural drug, what's it called again?

I could write pages "justifying" my actions and those of you getting ready to flame me will no doubt write pages telling me what an irresponsible twit I am, but at the end of the day I like to ride fast sometimes (not all the time, Im not one of those crazy bikers riding 100mph everywhere) and to keep doing that I need to outrun cops now and again because I know if they catch me im going to get booked, no warning no chance.

:done:

Of course this is a big joke, i neva spped or outrun cops

[scumdog]

who r u the iraqi mis-information minister. :bash:

400 metres it says for doing a pursuit cheque in police Policy which came over from MOT policy unless of course u r an ex City Council cop and its anything goes. :bleh:

if ya experienced copper, which it sounds like most of u guys are not you can do an estimated speed :banana:

awaiting replies with me flame proof ex MOT suit on ready for the bleating from coppers who were school boys when I was playing Tag with motorists.

Go the Highway Extortion. :third:

You must be bloody old 'cos I was playing tag with motorists in the early '70s :eek:

[scumdog]

Pursuit checks, a forgotten art. But then they actually trained us to do them, and drive properly, and ride properly. Those were the days.
BTW. Katwyn, why do you think everyone doing the speed limit is a good thing?
It hasn't helped the road toll.

No, but it has made the mangling of bodies a little less severe so that we can get a whole body out of the car instead of looking for bits in the long grass at night :blink:

[KATWYN]

No, but it has made the mangling of bodies a little less severe so that we can get a whole body out of the car instead of looking for bits in the long grass at night :blink:

The thought of car accidents and what happens is frightening. You guys
in the forces (i'm assuming here with you Scum....) are doing a job that
can not be envied. How you can go home after "a days work" like the rest of us and forget about the days events, is something I reakon the rest of us need to appreciate that can't be easy......(if no one else is with me on this
i'm speaking for at least myself and husband)

Maybe we can all help you guys/gals in the police/ambo/fire service out by SLOWING down! so you don't get to see as much severe trauma because of speed.

Hey peoples, have any of us thought about what others (including 1st on the accident scenes) get exposed too, because of going a bit faster than the limit...? I'm the first one to stand up and say I haven't...but only felt resent at getting a ticket...until now

[sAsLEX]

It has!

Convince us that raising the speed limit would have a positive effect on the road toll.

Have a look at some of the arguments on the site qouting instances of raising abolishing limits leading to a drop in the road toll! If we blindly follow Aussy why dont we start to follow some of these other ideas!

[Lou Girardin]

Lou it appears that u show no consideration for these wee fellas feelings making comments like this.

Have a long hard think before you make comments like this as some of these wee fellas take life a bit serious and may not be able to sleep after ya hurt there feelings.

now if they don't sleep well, they go to work all grumpy and will take it out on Mr Joe Public.

PS. I agree with what ya said though. :not:

hows old brockie. has he been up to see ya and is he still carrying that 12 volt iron on his bike so he can stop and iron his shirts every 60kms

Don't know about the iron, but have you seen him in his Dainese suit? Talk about a quart in a pint pot.
Sod can ride though. Bet he could leave a lot of KBer's for dead with his old R100

[Lou Girardin]

Humans can and do come apart in quite spectacular ways as the result of crashes. Its something that every road user needs to remember.

And climbing, farming, fishing, holidays in Iraq. In fact, in just about any activity you can name.

[Lou Girardin]

No, but it has made the mangling of bodies a little less severe so that we can get a whole body out of the car instead of looking for bits in the long grass at night :blink:

And better, safer car design has not contributed to this.
Although, Spud has contradicted you in one of his replies. Try and reach agreement among yourselves first or you'll start sounding like the LTSA.

Sorry about the multiple posts folks, I'm getting as bad as Spud.

[jrandom]

fishing

Eh?

You mean, like, being dismembered by the Giant Killer Kahawai of Doom, or something?

[spudchucka]

The thought of car accidents and what happens is frightening. You guys
in the forces (i'm assuming here with you Scum....) are doing a job that
can not be envied. How you can go home after "a days work" like the rest of us and forget about the days events, is something I reakon the rest of us need to appreciate that can't be easy......(if no one else is with me on this
i'm speaking for at least myself and husband)

Maybe we can all help you guys/gals in the police/ambo/fire service out by SLOWING down! so you don't get to see as much severe trauma because of speed.

Hey peoples, have any of us thought about what others (including 1st on the accident scenes) get exposed too, because of going a bit faster than the limit...? I'm the first one to stand up and say I haven't...but only felt resent at getting a ticket...until now
Some occassions that are particularly memorable:

A teenager that flipped his car on a bridge and got a flip top head as a result.

A drunk driver that hit a power pole resulting in his back seat passenger being beheaded.

A buldozer rollover that crushed the operator's head like a watermellon. His wife wouldn't be talked out of coming to view his body in the mortuary and I had to spend an hour scrubbing the dirt out of all the cracks in his skull and face to make him look at least a little presentable.

A helicopter crash - just plain messy.

A head on in which one vehicle ignited, trapping two in the car. They ended up as two hunks of charred meat, barely recognisable as human, no arms, no legs, no heads. The only thing that looked human was the spinal column that was exposed on one of them and the shoe that was stuck to the remains of the other. Both had car parts melded into the flesh. The smell was lets say a little interesting.

The driver of the other car in that one wasn't wearing a seat belt and had a rugby ball sized hole in his chest. Apparently he might have still been alive when Ambo's arrived as they had placed a neck brace on the old dude. I guess they hadn't seen the chest hole at that stage.

Thats just a few that I remember with clarity. Sorry if anyone reading that is squeamish.

[KATWYN]

How do you get images like that out of your head.

I found it hard enough staring down the exposed open
femur & seeing peices of sinue in the road of a guy that
lost it on a corner in a motorcycle accident, your mind plays
tricks at what you are staring at I reakon...but hey he got his knee
down...wonder if that was worth it

* Makes a conscious decision never to get in a car, on a bike,
ride in a helicopter or sit on a bulldozer ever again :sick: *

[vifferman]

How do you get images like that out of your head.

I found it hard enough staring down the exposed open
femur & seeing peices of sinue in the road of a guy that
lost it on a corner in a motorcycle accident, your mind plays
tricks at what you are staring at I reakon...but hey he got his knee
down...wonder if that was worth it

* Makes a conscious decision never to get in a car, on a bike,
ride in a helicopter or sit on a bulldozer ever again :sick: *

That does it. I'm staying in my cubicle at work, and never going anywhere again. Yes, Mr Spud (and Katwyn) - I am squeamish. I had to leave a first-aid course a couple of years ago because the description of broken bones sent me into shock.
Pathetic, innit? But it's not all bad. I give blood regularly, so I'm not a total wuss. :mellow:

[spudchucka]

How do you get images like that out of your head.

I found it hard enough staring down the exposed open
femur & seeing peices of sinue in the road of a guy that
lost it on a corner in a motorcycle accident, your mind plays
tricks at what you are staring at I reakon...but hey he got his knee
down...wonder if that was worth it

* Makes a conscious decision never to get in a car, on a bike,
ride in a helicopter or sit on a bulldozer ever again :sick: *
On the whole a bit of black humour and a large quanity of beer sees you right. The only ones I struggle with are kids.

[vifferman]

Well, Spud - you have my respect (despite postings in other threads that might seem to the contrary...)
I guess we (the public) don't really think about that aspect of your job. :niceone:

[dangerous]

* Makes a conscious decision never to get in a car, on a bike,
ride in a helicopter or sit on a bulldozer ever again :sick: *

Ohh hell had beter wrap up in cotton wool then and hide inside under the covers............ Oh crap that wont work the bloody roof might fall in :msn-wink:

spud: how fast was the bulldozer going :doctor:

[Big Dog]

Ohh hell had beter wrap up in cotton wool then and hide inside under the covers............ Oh crap that wont work the bloody roof might fall in :msn-wink:

spud: how fast was the bulldozer going :doctor:
Would not have thought that speed makes a lot of difference at 9 tonnes.

[KATWYN]

Would not have thought that speed makes a lot of difference at 9 tonnes.

Family member had a 20 tonne D7 (D8?) dozer roll over him about 30 years ago.(it rolled off the transporter and over him) he lost his arm & broke some other bones as well and had a puncture to the side of his head.
It was a few weeks later the doctors discovered he had also broken his pelvis on top of everything else just wasn't picked up on at the time!

And there is just about nothing that man can't do. Even now 30 years
later his son still makes the mistake of putting both a knife and fork in
front of him when he sets the table!

[marty]

Would not have thought that speed makes a lot of difference at 9 tonnes.
it does when you hit it.....

[Big Dog]

it does when you hit it.....
Doh. Thats gotta suck. Sharp immovable object, at least if my physics is right You would have to be moving bloddy fast to move 9 tonne with a 200kg sport bike.

[marty]

well igor. nice to see you came on here, dropped some names then are threatening to crawl back in your hole.

last i heard brockie was fine. still cleaning carpets i think. i remember when he sold his turbo skyline for getting 2 tickets in 2 days from the same te kuiti cop. (one heading south, the other coming back.........)

and like spud, i've had my share of fire, amputations, combine harvester head ons, truck v truck head ons, bike v truck head ons, car v bike head ons, eating of shotguns/303's etc, hangings etc. nothing worse than a messy one at 0703am on a sunday morning

one that really impressed me was a guy who tried to cut off his own head. with a razor blade even. top effort that.

[dangerous]

Would not have thought that speed makes a lot of difference at 9 tonnes.

well thats very true but I thought the thread was about 'bloody effin revenue collecters' and speed being the reason for it :doh: silly me :msn-wink:



it does when you hit it.....

Good save :niceone:

[marty]

point proven.

lack of training these days, programed to right tickets and not use common sense. :killingme

go ask Leo, he should no.
know, i don't think he would no. it's about 100 years since he's even written out a ticket. i don't even think he's driven one of his highway babies in anger. no doubt he'll be standing on the road directing cars at the fieldays again - i'm sure that's the highlight of his year.......:spudwave:

[dangerous]

know, i don't think he would no. it's about 100 years since he's even written out a ticket. i don't even think he's driven one of his highway babies in anger. no doubt he'll be standing on the road directing cars at the fieldays again - i'm sure that's the highlight of his year.......:spudwave:

Ohhh dear....... low blow that one :moon:

[scumdog]

Some occassions that are particularly memorable:

A teenager that flipped his car on a bridge and got a flip top head as a result.

A drunk driver that hit a power pole resulting in his back seat passenger being beheaded.

A buldozer rollover that crushed the operator's head like a watermellon. His wife wouldn't be talked out of coming to view his body in the mortuary and I had to spend an hour scrubbing the dirt out of all the cracks in his skull and face to make him look at least a little presentable.

A helicopter crash - just plain messy.

A head on in which one vehicle ignited, trapping two in the car. They ended up as two hunks of charred meat, barely recognisable as human, no arms, no legs, no heads. The only thing that looked human was the spinal column that was exposed on one of them and the shoe that was stuck to the remains of the other. Both had car parts melded into the flesh. The smell was lets say a little interesting.

The driver of the other car in that one wasn't wearing a seat belt and had a rugby ball sized hole in his chest. Apparently he might have still been alive when Ambo's arrived as they had placed a neck brace on the old dude. I guess they hadn't seen the chest hole at that stage.

Thats just a few that I remember with clarity. Sorry if anyone reading that is squeamish.

Yeah, like being by a burning car at a crash site and having a woman arrive in a car a few minutes later saying "wheres ....." and saying "who the hell is ...." and getting hte reply "he's my son,that's his car" what can you say at a time like that??

Or seeing a young guy hanging by the waist from his wrecked car screaning his head off and bleeding everywwhere

Or looking at the van wreckage and trying to figure how many bidies are actually inside it,

Yeah, speed on for all you want, I'll put your bits in the bag, I'll tell your mothet/father/family you ain't comming home alive amd your body will be released in a day or two........

[Lou Girardin]

Yeah right, Spud. You prepare bodies at the morgue.
Save the emotive crap, I've seen all that stuff too. And a biker skewered on a hay rake. It will always happen; even if Police and LTSA get their full enforcement wish list.
You may believe the dogma, most people don't.
Apparently, the 1 million odd drivers prepared to kill aren't very good at it. They only killed 32 people last year.

Wrong Brockie, Marty.

[marty]

not brockie the MOT cop? ex te awamutu? surely there's not more than one....

[Lou Girardin]

not brockie the MOT cop? ex te awamutu? surely there's not more than one....

No and yes.

[wkid_one]

5 days - no ticket yet

[scumdog]

Yeah right, Spud. You prepare bodies at the morgue.
Save the emotive crap, I've seen all that stuff too. And a biker skewered on a hay rake. It will always happen; even if Police and LTSA get their full enforcement wish list.
You may believe the dogma, most people don't.
Apparently, the 1 million odd drivers prepared to kill aren't very good at it. They only killed 32 people last year.
WooHoo Lou, go for it!!! Who the eff cares what the LTSA etc say? go as fast as you want, don't worry what Police and LTSA say, just pay the tickets as you get them (at least this kind of "taxing" is avoidable for the prudent!).

Time to find another windmill to tilt at Don (Lou) Quixote, - say one of the thousands of other lies that you can hear being spouted by politicians for instance, after all you ain't changed anything (opinions included) by you perpetual moaning about LTSA, Police etc so maybe it's time to try another target and see if you have any more success :whistle:

[Lou Girardin]

Nah. I'm happy with this one.

[Mongoose]

Nah. I'm happy with this one.

Why is it that people know the rules, play the game and still complain?

[scumdog]

Nah. I'm happy with this one.

Hmmmm, "happy" is not the word I would have associated with your comments :(

[Lou Girardin]

Rules are made to be changed. Unless they're written in stone.

[speedpro]

Rules are made to be changed. Unless they're written in stone.
Except if they're about what the company given the Telecom domestic network has to do. In that case the stones got "lost". In actual fact they were in a storage room under the old parliament buildings.

[Deano]

Rules are made to be changed. Unless they're written in stone.

Or made to be broken - the stone ones were broken too weren't they?

Just don't get caught eh !!

[spudchucka]

Ohh hell had beter wrap up in cotton wool then and hide inside under the covers............ Oh crap that wont work the bloody roof might fall in :msn-wink:

spud: how fast was the bulldozer going :doctor:
Now now I'm not silly enough to bite to that one.

[spudchucka]

Yeah right, Spud. You prepare bodies at the morgue.
Save the emotive crap, I've seen all that stuff too. And a biker skewered on a hay rake. It will always happen; even if Police and LTSA get their full enforcement wish list.
You may believe the dogma, most people don't.
Apparently, the 1 million odd drivers prepared to kill aren't very good at it. They only killed 32 people last year.

Wrong Brockie, Marty.

Hey Lou pull your fecken head in mate. Preparing bodies in the morgue is a regular job for police. Every sudden death has to be attended by police who act for the coroner. That includes victims of car wrecks, suicides, deaths that occur in the operating rooms, any death that a doctor will not sign a cause of death certificate is a coroners case.

For your information and you should know this anyway the mortuary procedure is the job of police. The job entails stripping the body, examining the body for injuries and noting what they consist of and where they are, securing property for the relatives to uplift later, cleaning the body of foriegn objects such as broken glass and car parts etc for the safety of the pathologist and writing a detailed report to the coroner. Relatives that wish to view the body can only do so in the presence of the police because until the post mortem examination is complete the body is in police custody. For the sake of the victims families police will bend over backwards to make the deceased as presentable as possible. This is not a plesent job in many cases, especially with MVA victims.

Call it emotive crap if you want. After all you just want to score your pathetic little points against me. The fact is someone asked about this stuff and I've offered a first hand view of the sort of stuff we encounter.

With the least amount of respect I can possibly muster :moon: :moon: :moon: :moon: :moon: .

[spudchucka]

Why is it that people know the rules, play the game and still complain?
Small man syndrome or perhaps just no life.

[Firefight]

Yeah right, Spud. You prepare bodies at the morgue.
Save the emotive crap, I've seen all that stuff too. And a biker skewered on a hay rake. It will always happen; even if Police and LTSA get their full enforcement wish list.
You may believe the dogma, most people don't.
Apparently, the 1 million odd drivers prepared to kill aren't very good at it. They only killed 32 people last year.

Wrong Brockie, Marty.


Sorry Lou,but can,t agree with you this time, have worked first hand with cops, doing the sort of thing these guys describe, have also worked with DVI team, the worst of all jobs, I have said it before on this site, and will again, no amount of money would convince me to do that work, they are not exagerateing, It is a credit to them that they continue to do this work, there is nothing to be achived by repeating details of incidents I have attended, nor would it be appropriate for me to do so, given the small world we live in, some relative somewhere may recognise the deatils.

Needless to say, its the sort of thing that makes you go home and give your wife and kids an extra hug, I have also been involved in the critical incident stress debreif process, its pretty humbling to see 6 foot tall boof head cops/firefighters and ambos, crying like 3 year olds.


Nuff said from me

Firefight.

[KATWYN]

there is nothing to be achived by repeating details of incidents I have attended, nor would it be appropriate for me to do so, given the small world we live in, some relative somewhere may recognise the deatils.
.

I can understand your respect for families etc cos I would be horrified to know details of something that killed a family member of mine were being spoken about. However, I personally think shock therapy can work (no facts too base it on, just how it has worked for me). But I don't have the right to say whether I would be ok with details repeated in a "teaching" situation as I have not had something like this happen to any loved ones
and do not know how I would feel about it.

Now I know why mum didn't speak about it.

[spudchucka]

Yeah right, Spud. You prepare bodies at the morgue.
Lou,

The bulldozer rollover occurred in a rural area. The victim had been partially buried for several hours before he was discovered. I did not attend the scene. He was flown by helicopter to my town and I carried out the mortuary procedure with a female collegue. As he had been buried for several hours he was caked in dirt from head to toe. The pathologist can not conduct a post mortem on a body in that condition. It was my responsibility to clean the body, no one else can do it. Both femurs had open fractures, he had multiple puncture wounds in his chest, (presumably from the bulldover controls), his skull had multiple fractures that were open and the brain was exposed, he had also lost one of his eyes. All the open wounds were full of dirt from him being buried. His eye socket and his mouth were also full of soil. All the dirt had to be cleaned away for the pathologist and as mentioned before the guys wife was coming to see him, (she did not know her husband was dead until after he had been flown away from the scene). This involved scrubbing and hosing the body until all the dirt was gone. The head was the hardest bit to clean because of the large number of fractures, (his head was like a crushed egg shell and was only being held together by skin). My collegue could not handle this part of the procedure and had to leave the morgue. The whole procedure took slightly more than one hour. Thankfully this was near the end of my shift and I didn't have to accompany the guys widow for viewing.

Next time you want to tell me what my job consists of check your facts and think very hard about what you are saying. If you don't like what I say thats fine, I don't really care at all but don't presume to know what I do on a daily basis.

[Funkyfly]

Nice comments Spud.

Certainly a job most people would not want to deal with, all jobs have good and bad, but being a cop/firefighter/ambo guy when its bad its REALLY BAD!

That said i know people who thrive on that sort of job, while they dont like seeing people hurt they realise its a fact of life and they are more than happy to be in that line of work. Different strokes for different folks

People who are dealing with life and death are way underpaid, its strange that some guy can sit in front of a computer and make more $$ than the ambo dude out there applying pressure to some kids chest because its got a hole in it the size of a football!

A little respect for the folk on the front lines would be nice.

[vifferman]

People who are dealing with life and death are way underpaid, its strange that some guy can sit in front of a computer and make more $$ than the ambo dude out there applying pressure to some kids chest because its got a hole in it the size of a football!
Hey!
I resemble that remark!
The "computer dude" guy.... Oh.. never mind :wacko:

But I do respect the ambo guys 'n gals. The last two who scraped me up off the road and poured me into the back of their vehicle did a sterling job. :niceone:

[Firefight]

I can understand your respect for families etc cos I would be horrified to know details of something that killed a family member of mine were being spoken about. However, I personally think shock therapy can work (no facts too base it on, just how it has worked for me). But I don't have the right to say whether I would be ok with details repeated in a "teaching" situation as I have not had something like this happen to any loved ones
and do not know how I would feel about it.

Now I know why mum didn't speak about it.


yes, I guess it might, not 100% sure it would, we have had some pretty detailed & Graphic photos of bike V truck head on plus fire with Pillon involved, but I don,t think it has any long term effect,,with the advent of internet there is plenty of that stuff around, however the real thing seems to stick in your mind, I guess your mum(I think you said she was a paramedic ?) would have had plenty of stories to tell, but did not want too.
Also in re telling the story some people (myself included) find the re telling painful.

BTW, Was your mum sationed at Silverdale at all ?, I did VAOing there a few years ago, I new most of the Silverdale staff.

Firefight.

[KATWYN]

People who are dealing with life and death are way underpaid,


True Funk, and theres a hell of a lot in this line of work that aren't paid
at all. yay to the vollies. (volunteers) cos if it wasn't for them the
services would be so under resourced it would be chaos. cos Helen
doesnt send funds that way.

Theres always people that do nice things for others and don't expect
anything in return- i'm sure the government takes advantage of this aspect
of human nature- in not helping financially

[KATWYN]

BTW, Was your mum sationed at Silverdale at all ?, I did VAOing there a few years ago, I new most of the Silverdale staff.

Firefight.

Dargaville. her name is Elaine. she said she knew some Silverdale ambos

Excuse me if I always say "mum this & mum that on the subject" but i'm in absolute awe of the type of people that do this kind of work and how none of them look for any elevation & praise

[Firefight]

Dargaville. her name is Elaine. she said she knew some Silverdale ambos

Excuse me if I always say "mum this & mum that on the subject" but i'm in absolute awe of the type of people that do this kind of work and how none of them look for any elevation & praise


Nothing wrong with being proud of Mum !

F/F

[spudchucka]

Nice comments Spud.

Certainly a job most people would not want to deal with, all jobs have good and bad, but being a cop/firefighter/ambo guy when its bad its REALLY BAD!

That said i know people who thrive on that sort of job, while they dont like seeing people hurt they realise its a fact of life and they are more than happy to be in that line of work. Different strokes for different folks

People who are dealing with life and death are way underpaid, its strange that some guy can sit in front of a computer and make more $$ than the ambo dude out there applying pressure to some kids chest because its got a hole in it the size of a football!

A little respect for the folk on the front lines would be nice.

I love my job and accept dealing with dead people as a part of it. Its not always easy but you do the best you can. I always try and remind myself that it could just as easily be my mum or dad or god forbid my own wife or child and I will always treat the deceased with the same level of respect and courtesy that I would expect if it were my own loved one. Same goes for the grieving family.

[MikeL]

Good debate here, with lots of thought-provoking comments, even if it has drifted somewhat from the original topic. What I find frustrating as usual is the way too often ego intrudes into the discussion and it descends to a name-calling slanging match. It's understandable that some people have a grudge against the police for some (real or perceived) injustice and those feelings need to be acknowledged and allowed for. But it's unreasonable to let those feelings become the basis for judging all police or all policies. On the other hand the police may well feel that they have to defend their own even when particular actions or procedures are questionable, simply out of solidarity. They must feel enormous frustration at the level of stupidity, selfishness and ignorance that they encounter daily. Their challenge as I see it is twofold: first, not to allow the fact that a large proportion of the people they come into contact with are criminals or f*wits to affect their perception of others to the extent that pre-judging and unfair treatment result; and secondly, to resist the temptation to abuse the power that they have been given.
Apart from this, I see a real problem of mismatched perceptions that underlies a lot of the tension coming through in this discussion. Because the police see the flesh and blood results of stupidity, carelessness, inappropriate speed, etc. they are naturally much more aware of these consequences than the rest of us. That in itself is no doubt a good thing in a way but it carries the danger that they become less able or willing to take a balanced view and may tend to be too narrowly focussed. I wonder whether, if I had your job, Spud, I would ever feel comfortable on a bike even at 100 kph? The end result of seeing so much carnage must surely be to destroy any pleasure in either driving or riding?
On the other hand I have no doubt that many drivers and riders don't think enough about the fragility of flesh, bone and skin.
FWIW this is my philosophy: I never speed when I'm driving. What I get out of driving (which I do as little as possible) is comfort, warmth (!), the pleasure of listening to a favourite CD... I'm also aware that my car is a potentially lethal weapon against other road users.
On the bike it's different. Riding is a physical sensation in which speed is a factor - not the only one, but an important part. I use my judgement as to what is an appropriate speed. This takes into consideration many different factors, one of which is the likelihood of injuring anyone apart from myself. When it comes to the crunch (!), I am prepared to take risks when alone on my bike on a deserted road that I would not take in other circumstances. It is a calculated risk and compared to many I've seen riding it is a conservative risk (considering my age, reflexes etc) but it is still a risk. If I miscalculate, I have only myself to blame. My death, or serious injury, will no doubt upset some people including those who have to pick up the broken pieces, and of course there is the economic cost as well, but none of this is an overwhelming, compelling reason for me to either give up riding or to stick to an arbitrary speed limit. Of course I know that the faster I go the bigger the mess, but life is all about calculated risk, and the only real debate is about where to draw the line. Different experiences will shape different perceptions of where that line should be, but in the debate it's important to accept that nobody has a monopoly on truth.

[marty]

well thought out and posted mike.

[scumdog]

In my eyes you have summed up the whole issue pretty much as I see it too.

A couple of points;
(1) being at the sharp end of When Things Go Wrong DOES make you a little intolerant to those that put themselves (not too much of the time) or more so put others at risk if Thing Go Wrong. often it's a lack of imagination or igmorance which in most cases is linked with lack of intelligence.
(2) Yes, getting on my Hogley after being at crash (especially one involving a scoot) scares the shit out of me for a bit, I mostly get over it after a few hours/kays later :sweatdrop .

[KATWYN]

I enjoyed that post. Yes it does sum it up

I get that physical speed sensation even at 100kmph
whereas others are at different speeds

[spudchucka]

MikeL,

I enjoyed reading your post, it was full of common sense and reason.


I wonder whether, if I had your job, Spud, I would ever feel comfortable on a bike even at 100 kph? The end result of seeing so much carnage must surely be to destroy any pleasure in either driving or riding?
On the other hand I have no doubt that many drivers and riders don't think enough about the fragility of flesh, bone and skin.

Personally I think its a good thing to be reminded of our mortality / fragility even if it is in a sometimes far too graphic way. Having said that I don't advocate wrapping ourselves in cotton wool either. I still enjoy the burst of power and the sudden rush of speed that a sport bike provides but its only ever in circumstances that I'm 100% certain I won't hurt anyone or get nicked for speeding. The rest of the time I'm Mr conservative on the road whether its a bike or car.

[merv]

MikeL,
I still enjoy the burst of power and the sudden rush of speed that a sport bike provides but its only ever in circumstances that I'm 100% certain I won't hurt anyone or get nicked for speeding.

That is the point and it slacks me off as I don't believe I ride or drive dangerously at all, yet at times cops have ticketed me. It is their judgement versus mine. After 35 years of riding/driving without any problems or insurance claims I think I know what I'm doing.

How do you know when you are 100% certain you won't get knicked by your mates as the bastards seem to sneak up on us mere mortals?

There is no logic to a one size fits all set of laws.

The recent bins on KB rides are proof of that. What is safe for one person is not for another until the skills are learnt and the judgement improves. Judgement improves with experience and experience is gained through learning from mistakes of poor judgement (or the saying goes something like that).

We all need our own personal cop riding with us, rating us as we go, and if we do well we should not be ticketed at all - that would be the closest you'd get to a stupidometer in my view. Book those that screw up. Instead the bastards rate you in an instant with some damn electronic gun that says "you broke da law".

How many times have I said before that cops don't agree with the laws or else they would never ride a bike faster than 100km/hr themselves eh Spud.

[spudchucka]

How do you know when you are 100% certain you won't get knicked by your mates as the bastards seem to sneak up on us mere mortals?


Well I guess I may have an unfair advantage because I know where they patrol and where they don't. Needless to say I don't ride where they patrol.


How many times have I said before that cops don't agree with the laws or else they would never ride a bike faster than 100km/hr themselves eh Spud.

Well then they wouldn't drive SS Holdens or XR8's either. Perhaps all cops should be restricted to driving Ladas and bikes no bigger than 50cc, otherwise they might find themselves in a position where they could break a law. Every road user makes up their own mind about how they drive regardless of their proffession or private lives.

[Kickaha]

That is the point and it slacks me off as I don't believe I ride or drive dangerously at all, yet at times cops have ticketed me. It is their judgement versus mine. After 35 years of riding/driving without any problems or insurance claims I think I know what I'm doing.


Not aiming this specifically at you Merv

But I've yet to hear of anyone that believes they ride or drive dangerously and everyone on the road always likes to think they know what they're doing but that doesn't mean that they do,it's always the other guy who can't drive/ride,after all when's the last time you heard someone admit to being a bad driver?.

[merv]

Not aiming this specifically at you Merv

But I've yet to hear of anyone that believes they ride or drive dangerously and everyone on the road always likes to think they know what they're doing but that doesn't mean that they do,it's always the other guy who can't drive/ride,after all when's the last time you heard someone admit to being a bad driver?.

You saw my comment though, no problems, no insurance claims, hell I'm so defensive no-one has ever hit me either. Anyone who has lost their no-claim bonus or anything like that or who has crashed more times than they care to remember, if they make such comments we know they are dreaming. They are out there believe me and I'm not one of them. They know who they are even if they don't admit it. A good example is that dear boy from the 'rapa that killed his mate recently.

[merv]

Well then they wouldn't drive SS Holdens or XR8's either. Perhaps all cops should be restricted to driving Ladas and bikes no bigger than 50cc, otherwise they might find themselves in a position where they could break a law. Every road user makes up their own mind about how they drive regardless of their proffession or private lives.

Exactly, but that just confirms my point about the merit of the law. There are no true believers if the enforcers don't abide by it.

[MikeL]

There are no true believers if the enforcers don't abide by it.
That's a bit unfair although I can understand where you're coming from. The fact that your expectation of saintly behaviour from your minister of religion is disappointed when he proves too susceptible to human frailties is not an argument against the moral principles themselves. It does however lead to an expectation that we will be spared the hypocrisy of a "holier than thou" lecture.

[marty]

That is the point and it slacks me off as I don't believe I ride or drive dangerously at all, yet at times cops have ticketed me. It is their judgement versus mine. After 35 years of riding/driving without any problems or insurance claims I think I know what I'm doing.
.

have you ever been charged with dangerous driving?

[Lou Girardin]

What happened to the principle that if you enforce the law, you are obliged to observe it precisely. Even when your colleagues aren't around.
After all, if it's held that a member of the public can drive within 10 km/h of the speed limit. a Police Officer should not exceed it at all.
Before all you Pleecemen get a rush of blood to the fingers, I will say that nothing has changed in the last 30 odd years. Occupational immmunity was as attractive then as it is now.

[merv]

have you ever been charged with dangerous driving?

Nope.

It always just been the niggly speed infringements in places that I thought safe. One was even on the Canterbury plains back in the 70s for doing 99 when the limit was 80 FFS. They kinda hid behind bushes even then. That one was in the name of fuel conservation and I wasn't driving an old Valiant V8 or anything.

[scumdog]

What happened to the principle that if you enforce the law, you are obliged to observe it precisely. Even when your colleagues aren't around.
After all, if it's held that a member of the public can drive within 10 km/h of the speed limit. a Police Officer should not exceed it at all.
Before all you Pleecemen get a rush of blood to the fingers, I will say that nothing has changed in the last 30 odd years. Occupational immmunity was as attractive then as it is now.

Yeah, what DID happen to that principle Lou? - luckily I did all my wheelies/skids/speeding when I was a freezing worker :rolleyes:

[vifferman]

But I've yet to hear of anyone that believes they ride or drive dangerously and everyone on the road always likes to think they know what they're doing but that doesn't mean that they do,it's always the other guy who can't drive/ride,after all when's the last time you heard someone admit to being a bad driver?.
I sometimes drive (or ride) badly. Sometimes I guess it's potentially dangerous, and sometimes it's definitely very illegal.

Strangely, I most often do dumb things when my wife's in the car. :eek5:
But I can do dumb things on the bike all by myself.

I haven't had a ticket of any sort since 1977, and that was for not having a mirror on my Elsinore (shortly after the regulations were changed). The mirrors were useless anyway, as they vibrated enough that you couldn't see what was behind, so whether they were on the bike or not, I still glanced around to see what was behind me. This was the point I (unsuccessfully) made. But, the law is the law.
The fact I haven't had a ticket is more good luck (and observation) than anything else.
I have had four crashes in the last 5 years, and none in the period from 1978 to 1999. Legally, none were my fault. But all could have been avoided, so I accept some measure of blame for them, and hence I can learn from them.

Commuting every day in D'Auckland traffic is just asking for trouble, and if I were sensible, I'd park the bike up, and take the bus or car. I guess it probably makes me an idiot that I choose not to. :stupid:

[spudchucka]

Exactly, but that just confirms my point about the merit of the law. There are no true believers if the enforcers don't abide by it.
Sorry but its a self defeating arguement as I see it. By the same logic cops shouldn't be able to own guns because they can kill people or possess cold & flu pills because you can make drugs from them.

[merv]

Sorry but its a self defeating arguement as I see it. By the same logic cops shouldn't be able to own guns because they can kill people or possess cold & flu pills because you can make drugs from them.

Only true if you can confirm that cops owning fast cars and bikes never speed, but then you've told me in the past they do (and I know some that do) so there is no real argument over this so there is no point trying to further defend a position. They can possess guns and other stuff legally too but do they do illegal stuff with them?

The issue over the road rules is that there are few people out there, cops included, that truly believe they should be abided by in total. I've already told you about the speed cop cars have been followed travelling on our city streets with no warning lights on or anything, just cruising along just like the public does. I am sure even the politicians that pass the law are just the same, but are too PC in front of the electorate to speak up and say so, except Tony Ryall.

The problem is how to bring some sense to this when others always roll out the death and injury stats and call that proof.

[merv]

p.s. Do you guys in the force ever sit around with your bosses and debate this stuff? Are any conclusions ever reached or do you just say stuff it, well back to doing our jobs boys that's what the politicians dictate?

Talking to us doesn't really help as we all seem powerless to make change and the country is slowly sliding into a control freak's paradise.

[spudchucka]

p.s. Do you guys in the force ever sit around with your bosses and debate this stuff? Are any conclusions ever reached or do you just say stuff it, well back to doing our jobs boys that's what the politicians dictate?

Talking to us doesn't really help as we all seem powerless to make change and the country is slowly sliding into a control freak's paradise.
Have had a few stand up arguements with station senior sergeants about the inbalance between policing the roads and policing criminal activity, can't say I've won any yet though. :brick:

As far as policing the roads go from my point of view, I won't give a ticket to someone for something that I would have done myself. Consequently I won't give tickets for doing 11 kph over the limit, (unless you happen to be a burglar, thief or drug dealer, in which case I'll give you what ever tickets I can because you are a low life bottom dweller).

[jrandom]

As far as policing the roads go from my point of view, I won't give a ticket to someone for something that I would have done myself.

If you were in HP, would you be allowed to continue that (admirable) policy?

[spudchucka]

If you were in HP, would you be allowed to continue that (admirable) policy?
Can't answer that because there is no way I'd be there. I do however know several in HP that adopt the same position as myself and still manage to keep the bosses off their backs.

[igor]

Have had a few stand up arguements with station senior sergeants about the inbalance between policing the roads and policing criminal activity, can't say I've won any yet though. :brick:

As far as policing the roads go from my point of view, I won't give a ticket to someone for something that I would have done myself. Consequently I won't give tickets for doing 11 kph over the limit, (unless you happen to be a burglar, thief or drug dealer, in which case I'll give you what ever tickets I can because you are a low life bottom dweller).

something we agree on at last. :ride:

[merv]

Have had a few stand up arguements with station senior sergeants about the inbalance between policing the roads and policing criminal activity, can't say I've won any yet though. :brick:


Good on ya mate!!!

[Big Dog]

when's the last time you heard someone admit to being a bad driver?.
I'm a crap driver, and not a very good rider either.
I know it and acknowledge it.
I reckon it is this knowledge that keeps me coming back.

I also reckon that I am a better rider / driver than 90% of people who's driving I have ever experienced.

Machines are crap at both because of their lack of ability to take a managed risk.

Humans are crap because the can't manage the risk.


I'm sure there are better riders / drivers than me on this site but that does not make them good all the time, or even good.

[Mongoose]

What happened to the principle that if you enforce the law, you are obliged to observe it precisely. Even when your colleagues aren't around.
After all, if it's held that a member of the public can drive within 10 km/h of the speed limit. a Police Officer should not exceed it at all.
Before all you Pleecemen get a rush of blood to the fingers, I will say that nothing has changed in the last 30 odd years. Occupational immmunity was as attractive then as it is now.


That will be why a local cop gave a traveling Insp. a speeding ticket, is it Lou?

[spudchucka]

something we agree on at last. :ride:
How the hell did that happen??

[Redstar]

Spud - I have a question for you - how long does a cop have to follow you to assimulate a reading of your speed?

Full details later - right now I am writing a letter.

What about the converse situation? how long can you follow a speeding cop before they can pull you over for speeding?
now I thought that they have to somehow get behind you with light flashing to execute a pull over? in that case don't allow that, by slowing at the same speed as they pull over and remain at the rear of the car or bike at all times?

If they do manage to get behind you they don't have to justify their speed to you because thats the way it is and besides we all know they get late for tea just like us?

However as soon as you stop immediatly advise them that you are exercising your right of citizens arrest for Dangerous driving and you had to speed up to catch them.

OK its Bullshit, but Hey it still begs the question

[Lou Girardin]

As far as policing the roads go from my point of view, I won't give a ticket to someone for something that I would have done myself. Consequently I won't give tickets for doing 11 kph over the limit, (unless you happen to be a burglar, thief or drug dealer, in which case I'll give you what ever tickets I can because you are a low life bottom dweller).

But you admit to travelling at 20 km/h over the limit on occasion and further admit to writing tickets for 14 km/h over.
It also seems that what you consider the offender to be is more important than the circumstances of the offence.
Impressive!

[Redstar]

I support the principle that the General Crims should get hit harder than honest joe public under the same circumstances. They deserve to get a harder time in every respect. the flaw here is how many of the Drug dealing,stealing low life give a monkeys about yet another ticket? "not many if any" so they need to be coaxed gently from there vehicles and severely told off.
"you naughty naughty person you," voice raised slightly " dont you ever do that again" or some :niceone: thing hard like that! that'll teach um a? :niceone:

[spudchucka]

But you admit to travelling at 20 km/h over the limit on occasion and further admit to writing tickets for 14 km/h over.
It also seems that what you consider the offender to be is more important than the circumstances of the offence.
Impressive!
Some times my bike will hit 120 on the open road, it will never hit 70 in a 50 zone. I will give people tickets for 64 in a 50 zone, different story in a 100.

Traffic enforcement is a great tool for getting on the case of the regular shit heads who steal and sell drugs. Shutting down the criminal activities that these people are into is more important to me than Joe citizen getting a speeding ticket. As far as I'm cocerned the rules are different for criminals compared to good ordinary people who make a mistake. If you check back or are keeping some record of what I post you will see that I've said that before too.

The circumstances of the offence will determine whether discretion is used or not. The person committing the offence will also have a bearing on whether discretion is used.

Quit being such a nit picking twit.

[spudchucka]

I support the principle that the General Crims should get hit harder than honest joe public under the same circumstances. They deserve to get a harder time in every respect. the flaw here is how many of the Drug dealing,stealing low life give a monkeys about yet another ticket? "not many if any" so they need to be coaxed gently from there vehicles and severely told off.
"you naughty naughty person you," voice raised slightly " dont you ever do that again" or some :niceone: thing hard like that! that'll teach um a? :niceone:
Theres a bigger picture than just giving a criminal a traffic fine. Consider this.

Lou is a local butrglar that is responsible for a large percentage of the local crime, (sorry but I just had to use that name). The cops know he is an active crim but can't get the evidence to put him away, (Lou is a cunning old sod). The cops decide they will target Lou in every way possible.

Soon every cop in town knows about Lou and what he is up to. They know where he lives, what he drives, who has mates are, where they live and how he operates. Everytime Lou is seen out and about police stop him. Whenever possible Lou gets tickets and is arrested for any piddle pot offence possible. Lou's a typical crim and has little regard for any law. He quickly collects a lot of tickets and demerit points.

Once he hits 100 points he loses his licence. But Lou doesn't give a shit about having a licence and keeps driving. Its not long before he gets locked up for driving while suspended and his car gets impounded. 28 days later he's back in his car and gets locked uo again. Now he's limited to riding a push bike but won't wear a helmet. Lou gets more tickets for not wearing a helmet, (only $55 but what the hell Lou's a scumbag).

Its not long before Lou has ammassed a huge $$$ value in fines and he has a number of traffic charges pending. The Courts start to notice that Lou has all these unpaid fines and before long the the Court issues a warrant to sieze property in lieu of the unpaid fines.

The bailiffs execute the warrant with police assistance and a large quantity of expensive electronic equipment is taken. Checks on the property later show that the items have been stolen in a number of burglaries that Lou was a suspect for. Lou is charged with burglary, theft and receiving.

While at the address a large hydroponic cannabis growing operation is discovered and Lou gets charged with cultivating and possession for supply.

Police oppose Lou's bail and the Judge has no hesitation in remanding lou in custody, (one more scumbag where he belongs).

Lou is later convicted on a number of burglary, receiving, theft and drugs charges and goes to jail for a good long stretch. All because a bunch of cops were relentless and gave the loser a heap of traffic tickets.

This might sound a little far fetched to some of you but I've been involved in a number of operations that have unfolded just as this scenario.

[Lou Girardin]

As far as I'm cocerned the rules are different for criminals compared to good ordinary people who make a mistake.
The circumstances of the offence will determine whether discretion is used or not. The person committing the offence will also have a bearing on whether discretion is used.
Quit being such a nit picking twit.

Today criminals, tomorrow.............?

[sedge]

I got a ticket yesterday for being a cock, the police do show discretion, he could have given me a lot worse than I got. The last two tickets I've had have been because I was riding like a knob in front of a policeman. Fair enough is my attitude, if I'm being a cock and I don't see the police car then I wouldn't see the car that hits me either so I deserve the ticket... makes sense to me.

I'm starting to think I need to move my irresponsible behaviour to a more appropriate location like Manfield... ahh if only they would reopen the old track at Levin.

Anyway... I was talking to the PC yesterday and he told me about one crash he'd been to where this guy was riding his bike and hit a pole, the bike was split in half. I asked him how the guy was and he said he was split in half too... Must be a fun job being a policeman, I can understand the tickets, they just don't want to try and join you back together later in the day.

Ah well, I'm still in one piece for now...mostly.

Sedge.

[igor]

Some times my bike will hit 120 on the open road, it will never hit 70 in a 50 zone. I will give people tickets for 64 in a 50 zone, different story in a 100.

Traffic enforcement is a great tool for getting on the case of the regular shit heads who steal and sell drugs. Shutting down the criminal activities that these people are into is more important to me than Joe citizen getting a speeding ticket. As far as I'm cocerned the rules are different for criminals compared to good ordinary people who make a mistake. If you check back or are keeping some record of what I post you will see that I've said that before too.

The circumstances of the offence will determine whether discretion is used or not. The person committing the offence will also have a bearing on whether discretion is used.

Quit being such a nit picking twit.

thats two things we agree on in the same thread.

old saying "there is more than one way to skin a cat"

[igor]

Theres a bigger picture than just giving a criminal a traffic fine. Consider this.

Lou is a local butrglar that is responsible for a large percentage of the local crime, (sorry but I just had to use that name). The cops know he is an active crim but can't get the evidence to put him away, (Lou is a cunning old sod). The cops decide they will target Lou in every way possible.

Soon every cop in town knows about Lou and what he is up to. They know where he lives, what he drives, who has mates are, where they live and how he operates. Everytime Lou is seen out and about police stop him. Whenever possible Lou gets tickets and is arrested for any piddle pot offence possible. Lou's a typical crim and has little regard for any law. He quickly collects a lot of tickets and demerit points.

Once he hits 100 points he loses his licence. But Lou doesn't give a shit about having a licence and keeps driving. Its not long before he gets locked up for driving while suspended and his car gets impounded. 28 days later he's back in his car and gets locked uo again. Now he's limited to riding a push bike but won't wear a helmet. Lou gets more tickets for not wearing a helmet, (only $55 but what the hell Lou's a scumbag).

Its not long before Lou has ammassed a huge $$$ value in fines and he has a number of traffic charges pending. The Courts start to notice that Lou has all these unpaid fines and before long the the Court issues a warrant to sieze property in lieu of the unpaid fines.

The bailiffs execute the warrant with police assistance and a large quantity of expensive electronic equipment is taken. Checks on the property later show that the items have been stolen in a number of burglaries that Lou was a suspect for. Lou is charged with burglary, theft and receiving.

While at the address a large hydroponic cannabis growing operation is discovered and Lou gets charged with cultivating and possession for supply.

Police oppose Lou's bail and the Judge has no hesitation in remanding lou in custody, (one more scumbag where he belongs).

Lou is later convicted on a number of burglary, receiving, theft and drugs charges and goes to jail for a good long stretch. All because a bunch of cops were relentless and gave the loser a heap of traffic tickets.

This might sound a little far fetched to some of you but I've been involved in a number of operations that have unfolded just as this scenario.

thats three things we agree on.

i have a story very similiar to spuddys one above and all for the offence of a WOF expired by 1 month and fibbing to me about his name.

it was obvious he was a career criminal so was i gunna take this crap name for a wof expired.

he don't go nowhere until i no his real name.

due to a law change in 1998 u can now arrest if u suspect u are being fibbed to. u no longer have to prove they were fibbing as b4.

[Deano]

Its not long before Lou has ammassed a huge $$$ value in fines and he has a number of traffic charges pending. The Courts start to notice that Lou has all these unpaid fines and before long the the Court issues a warrant to sieze property in lieu of the unpaid fines.


Nathan Bentley from Upper Hutt was recently convicted in court for unpaid fines (boy racer driving offences I understand) totalling $92,000. While he may not be the stereotypical 'scumbag crim', he obviously had no regard for the road laws and continued to offend. What did he get in court - 400 hours of community service and the fine reduced to $7,800 which he has to repay at $30 per week. Perhaps he did not have any assets worth confisgating.

What sort of message does that send to the rest like him ?

Methinks the message is why bother paying your fines, just wait until a court summons and the judge will slap your hand with a wet bus ticket.

When are the courts actually going to use sentencing as a real deterrant ?

[SPman]

When are the courts actually going to use sentencing as a real deterrant ?
I think you'll find, if you look at the overall picture, courts are imposing stiffer sentences. Its just seems to be the media and Joe Stupid, who know little or nothing of the circumstances, etc, who mouth off the continual cry of, "they get away with it! Bring in tougher sentences!"
Its always easy to slag off about perceived injustices that have nothing to do with you! - espec, if you've heard 1 or 2 salacious "facts"

Anyway, when has a sentence ever been a deterrent?

[Deano]

I think you'll find, if you look at the overall picture, courts are imposing stiffer sentences. Its just seems to be the media and Joe Stupid, who know little or nothing of the circumstances, etc, who mouth off the continual cry of, "they get away with it! Bring in tougher sentences!"
Its always easy to slag off about perceived injustices that have nothing to do with you! - espec, if you've heard 1 or 2 salacious "facts"

Anyway, when has a sentence ever been a deterrent?

So do you think dropping $92,000 worth of fines to $7,800 and some community service is reasonable ?

As far as deterrants go ,if I was on my last set of demerits, I would certainly be more careful about speeding. And loss of licence for DIC definitely puts me off drinking to excess then driving. If sentences weren't a deterrant, then why have laws at all? Do you think moral conscience alone would prevent crime ? Not likely.

And who the feck are you calling Joe Stupid, asswipe ? (see how easy it is to make stupid personal attacks for voicing an opinion). Don't you recall the referendum some years ago when a huge number of like minded kiwi's voted for tougher sentencing.

You're talking out a hole in your ass.

[SPman]

So do you think dropping $92,000 worth of fines to $7,800 and some community service is reasonable ? No, but probably realistic!


As far as deterrants go ,if I was on my last set of demerits, I would certainly be more careful about speeding. And loss of licence for DIC definitely puts me off drinking to excess then driving. If sentences weren't a deterrant, then why have laws at all? Do you think moral conscience alone would prevent crime ? Not likely. To those who, shall we say, dont give a fuck, deterrents dont work. ie, most crims. In cases of murder,90% dont even think of deterrents when they do it, or, if they do, somehow think they can circumvent them. (bit like traffic tickets really :bleh: ) To regular, generally law abiding citizens, yes, deterrents do work, as in the above cases, but, really, only if you have a moral conscience of some kind to start with.


And who the feck are you calling Joe Stupid, asswipe ? (see how easy it is to make stupid personal attacks for voicing an opinion). Whoops, thought about implications afterwards:o

Don't you recall the referendum some years ago when a huge number of like minded kiwi's voted for tougher sentencing. Yep. While I agreed with some of the sentiments, as it applied (seemingly) to some of the more high profile cases, the general thrust seemed to me to be more of a shit stirring exercise by the media, to rile up the public by feeding them half truths and innuendos. (as per normal).


You're talking out a hole in your ass. yeah, probably. whatever.:rolleyes:

[Deano]

No, but probably realistic!

To those who, shall we say, dont give a fuck, deterrents dont work. ie, most crims. In cases of murder,90% dont even think of deterrents when they do it, or, if they do, somehow think they can circumvent them. (bit like traffic tickets really :bleh:) To regular, generally law abiding citizens, yes, deterrents do work, as in the above cases, but, really, only if you have a moral conscience of some kind to start with.

Whoops, thought about implications afterwards:o
Yep. While I agreed with some of the sentiments, as it applied (seemingly) to some of the more high profile cases, the general thrust seemed to me to be more of a shit stirring exercise by the media, to rile up the public by feeding them half truths and innuendos. (as per normal).

yeah, probably. whatever.:rolleyes:

Did you have a hard night ? I know I did. No worries.

[igor]

Nathan Bentley from Upper Hutt was recently convicted in court for unpaid fines (boy racer driving offences I understand) totalling $92,000. While he may not be the stereotypical 'scumbag crim', he obviously had no regard for the road laws and continued to offend. What did he get in court - 400 hours of community service and the fine reduced to $7,800 which he has to repay at $30 per week. Perhaps he did not have any assets worth confisgating.

What sort of message does that send to the rest like him ?

Methinks the message is why bother paying your fines, just wait until a court summons and the judge will slap your hand with a wet bus ticket.

When are the courts actually going to use sentencing as a real deterrant ?

thats the Court system for ya.

see we get Judges who used to be Lawyers, who appear to beleive any co co ma nee story the said toerag gives them. :brick:

hers a couple of options.

1
What we need is rednecks giving out the sentences.

good old fashioned ass wiping rednecks. yehaa

2.
death squads is another good idea. :2guns:

Copper: Excuse ma Maam ya double parked could ya get out of the car please. (the cop has manners he said please)

Maam: Why do i have to get out of the car.

Copper: well if i shoot ya in he car we gunna have to valet it and that costs money and i may get bulelt holes in the seat the that really ruins the resale.

Maam. Ok, i'll get out then.

BANG.

of course we could still take this option and be very selective the first night, take out 300 - 400 of the worst offenders and the rest may pull there heads in. :bleh:

[marty]

due to a law change in 1998 u can now arrest if u suspect u are being fibbed to. u no longer have to prove they were fibbing as b4.
pardon? 'good cause to suspect' has been around since well before 1998. under which legislation was this modified?

[igor]

pardon? 'good cause to suspect' has been around since well before 1998. under which legislation was this modified?

the fush and chup act 2004

[marty]

yeah good one igor. i bet i've used that one more than you have

[scumdog]

Does it supercede the Fush'n'Cup Act 1971? - if so I better start using it :soon:

[marty]

it supercedes every act, dog. you know that :)

[spudchucka]

Today criminals, tomorrow.............?
Paranoid ex traffic cops???

[bikerboy]

" We used to have a quota but now we are allowed to write as many tickets as we want!" from spudchuka.
If true, that's like handing a fully loaded machine gun to a two year old. :2guns:

That same approach hasn't worked with burglaries, maybe solving them should now have a quota, atleast some would be solved that way.



Banana republic here come, yippee!

[spudchucka]

" We used to have a quota but now we are allowed to write as many tickets as we want!" from spudchuka.
If true, that's like handing a fully loaded machine gun to a two year old. :2guns:

That same approach hasn't worked with burglaries, maybe solving them should now have a quota, atleast some would be solved that way.



Banana republic here come, yippee!
Get over it. Either get hard, suck in your guts and pay your fine or shut up and take it to Court.

The sig line is a joke you clown but I'll change it to one you might prefer, ok.

[igor]

" We used to have a quota but now we are allowed to write as many tickets as we want!" from spudchuka.
If true, that's like handing a fully loaded machine gun to a two year old. :2guns:

That same approach hasn't worked with burglaries, maybe solving them should now have a quota, atleast some would be solved that way.

Banana republic here come, yippee!

its the same assholes who commit most burglaries and these arseholes make your and my life a misery.

most if not all burglaries are low intelligent scum who think cause u don't secure your house like fort knox they have the right to pinch your stuff.

instead of giving the same penalty for 10 offences as the give for 1, times the sentence by 10.

police only report the offences. the courts dish out the sentences.

whats a judge, someone who used to do the best for these scum to get them off. look at the halfwit they just appointed in PN. he thinks all offenders are hard done by and should be treated lightly. I say wake up and do what the public want. lock the bastards up for longer periods if not for ever.

take it from someone on the frontline who ant looking through rose tinted glasses, shithead goes to jail burglaries stop. shithead gets released burglaries start again.

the man who sits up high in the courtroom and can dish out sentences needs to and get hard and give out some decent sentences for burglary.

[Big Dog]

the man who sits up high in the courtroom and can dish out sentences needs to and get hard and give out some decent sentences for burglary.
I have met a man who lives on the street, he burgles houses for food and stuff to sell for alcohol drugs. Turns him self in at the beggining of winter knowing full well he will get a warm bed and three squares and be out by next surf season. :bash:

[Lou Girardin]

The sig line is a joke you clown but I'll change it to one you might prefer, ok.

It seems more like your motto.

[spudchucka]

It seems more like your motto.
You have no idea!

[bikerboy]

"The handcuffs are tight because they're new......"

Perhaps more appropriately it should read:

"The handcuffs are tight because they've never been used. It's too hard to handcuff a car while operating a radar gun"
:bleh:

[geoffm]

" We used to have a quota but now we are allowed to write as many tickets as we want!" from spudchuka.
If true, that's like handing a fully loaded machine gun to a two year old. :2guns:

That same approach hasn't worked with burglaries, maybe solving them should now have a quota, atleast some would be solved that way.
Banana republic here come, yippee!

To solve them, theywould have to turn up first...
I am surprised the clearance rate for Auckland is up to 8% for burglaries (used to be 6%) - must have been a whole lot of religion or confessions going down.
Geoff
(Me, bitter -never!)

[marty]

"The handcuffs are tight because they're new......"

Perhaps more appropriately it should read:

"The handcuffs are tight because they've never been used. It's too hard to handcuff a car while operating a radar gun"
:bleh:
how about 'the handcuffs are tight cause i fuckin well tightened them up that way! now stop ya wingeing and act like the man you were pretending to be 5 minutes ago'

[wkid_one]

Use Zip Ties...much more fun

[scumdog]

how about 'the handcuffs are tight cause i fuckin well tightened them up that way! now stop ya wingeing and act like the man you were pretending to be 5 minutes ago'

Yeah, they seem to suck the bravado right out of 'em, before cuffs: - "eff you pig, I'm going to ....(put in favourite hard-ass words here) you, I'll effing ..... you." After cuffs? - "ow these things hurt, hey officer please could you loosen them a bit, hey I won't play up if you take them off, shit these things are too tight man, they've cut off the circulation, aw come on".

The zip-ties are good, no-brains pull on the "tail" on them trying to get free and tighten them up more, oh dear.

[spudchucka]

"The handcuffs are tight because they're new......"

Perhaps more appropriately it should read:

"The handcuffs are tight because they've never been used. It's too hard to handcuff a car while operating a radar gun"
:bleh:
You'll have to do better than that.

[spudchucka]

The zip-ties are good, no-brains pull on the "tail" on them trying to get free and tighten them up more, oh dear.
Haven't seen anyone get bottletopped with zip ties either, I'll stick with Smith & Wesson.

[marty]

of course there's nothing like a big scrap, a dose of pepper spray THEN putting them in cuffs, for the meander back to the station for decontamination - wouldn't want to break any road rules while returning to the station now would we.....we're only returning to the station - can hardly blue light to there could we

[Lou Girardin]

OKAY, for chrissakes, stop the war stories.

[Mongoose]

OKAY, for chrissakes, stop the war stories.

getting nervious at the thought of meeting some of these fine up standing folk are you Lou? :Pokey:

[spudchucka]

OKAY, for chrissakes, stop the war stories.
Only if you quit your favourite topic, ok.

[Lou Girardin]

Only if you quit your favourite topic, ok.

What would you have to bitch about if I did?

[spudchucka]

What would you have to bitch about if I did?
I only ever feel the need to bitch when you NAG like a BITCH about THAT topic.

[marty]

who said they're war stories? it's daily life in the police in 2004 - you're not in te aroha now dr lou

[Lou Girardin]

who said they're war stories? it's daily life in the police in 2004 - you're not in te aroha now dr lou

Te Aroha?
Say what?

[speedpro]

Te Aroha?
Say what?
Shortland Street??