Can you copyright a tattoo?

[placidfemme]

I was just wondering if one (me) could copyright a tattoo image or design.

As some of you know I have two tattoo's which both have HUGE sentimental value to me. The tattoo on my arm is a deffinate original, and the angel on my back was also meant to be an original, which was designed by a close artist friend of mine, and then played with over and over until I was happy with the final outcome.

Now yesterday I saw someone here in Auckland with MY angel tattoo on her back, all she bothered to change was the wings (slightly) and the hair (mine looks better lol). Which depressed me immensly due to the sentimental value of my tattoos, exspecially the angel because its in honor of my mother...

I have now decided to get my angel (and whole back) modified to keep it looking original, and I know it will be because our IT guy is an artist, and a VERY good one, so we've been dawdiling with designs and its starting to look really good.

With my angel tattoo, I very rarely posted any pics on the net, its never been printed/published in a magazine because I don't let people take pictures of it, and I refused to let the tattoo artist take a picture of it once he was done, and I took my papers home with me...

So I have no idea how this chick got my design. She reckons she got it done at some palour in Onehunga (or somewhere South) and I got mine in Ponsonby... so I don't know...

But in future, is there anyway I can stop people from stealing my own skin art? (Other than not getting one at all)

[The_Dover]

But in future, is there anyway I can stop people from stealing my own skin art? (Other than not getting one at all)

hang out with stevie wonder and ray charles?

[cowpoos]

you can copyright images....

[placidfemme]

hang out with stevie wonder and ray charles?

lol me and my blind friends :)

[Smorg]

what would be the point? I wanted to copyright the swastika after I got it in the middle of my forehead but then I found out a few other guys had used it, I didnt kick up a stink though........im glad they liked my idea.


Angels arent original tattoo's anyway no matter what they look like

[placidfemme]

you can copyright images....

is it easy to do? and how much do you think it'd cost...

Makes me angry that someone spends hours or even days/weeks designing something original and special, then spends possibly hours spread over a number of weeks (depending on the detail, and size) getting it done on the skin... and then fuckwit steals your design and uses it...

[Colapop]

In short, No I don't think you can. As much as you want it to be individual there are those that will admire your work and want the same for themselves. If you have given the design to the tattoo artist and they re-use it on someone - I'm not sure how that would work.

[Str8 Jacket]

A similar thing happened to me with one of my tats. Found out later that they had somehow drawn the design by memory and they then put the design up in the shop. Maybe your person did the same thing, especially if they modified it a bit they may have easily been able to remember the design...

[cowpoos]

hang out with stevie wonder and ray charles?
thats why you hang out with winja,weasel,white trash and zed....make you look skinny aye fatso!!

[placidfemme]

A similar thing happened to me with one of my tats. Found out later that they had somehow drawn the design by memory and they then put the design up in the shop. Maybe your person did the same thing, especially if they modified it a bit they may have easily been able to remember the design...

yeah... rude though. But I thought Dermagraphics didn't do "re-makes" because when I was in there waiting for Sam's tattoo to be finished (which I designed too), a chick came in with a photo of someone else's ink... and the guy told her he only did originals...

[cowpoos]

is it easy to do? and how much do you think it'd cost...

Makes me angry that someone spends hours or even days/weeks designing something original and special, then spends possibly hours spread over a number of weeks (depending on the detail, and size) getting it done on the skin... and then fuckwit steals your design and uses it...
http://www.copyright.co.nz/law.what.html

[The_Dover]

thats why you hang out with winja,weasel,white trash and zed....make you look skinny aye fatso!!

nah, they are all maurice's mates.

bunch of poofs

[Str8 Jacket]

yeah... rude though. But I thought Dermagraphics didn't do "re-makes" because when I was in there waiting for Sam's tattoo to be finished (which I designed too), a chick came in with a photo of someone else's ink... and the guy told her he only did originals...

Hmm, maybe its one rule for one and another for someone else?... Also it may also come down to $$. I was really angry about mine as my best mate had designed it a month before she passed away and I thought it would be a great way of remembering here, until I met very coincedently met someone with the identical tat, in exactly the same place as mine.

[cowpoos]

nah, they are all maurice's mates.

bunch of poofs
who do you hang out wif then tubs?

[The_Dover]

who do you hang out wif then tubs?

the voices in my head mostly

[cowpoos]

the voices in my head mostly
no wonder your fat with poor personal hygine then....

[Postie]

yeah... rude though. But I thought Dermagraphics didn't do "re-makes" because when I was in there waiting for Sam's tattoo to be finished (which I designed too), a chick came in with a photo of someone else's ink... and the guy told her he only did originals...

this is true, I got my first tattoo at Dermagraphics which I designed (mostly) and they said that it would never be re-made on anyone else. They didn't take a photo and I am pretty sure i took the original with me. My second tattoo was based on a drawing in a book at a Tattoo parlour only I modified it to personalise it, again no photos were taken so unless someone has the same idea, it will be a one off.

[placidfemme]

Thanks for the link to the copyright site.... such a mission and that doesn't really stop people from doing it anyway :(

*is nearly done with the design for the new one*

[Str8 Jacket]

*is nearly done with the design for the new one*

Oh, whatcha getting done? You decided on a place for it yet?

[Macktheknife]

Pretty hard to enforce is the biggest problem with trying to copyright an image like this. Unless it is to be used for a trademark, or business purpose, it is bloody hard to achieve.
I would be putting some pressure on the person with the copy though and find out who did the work, then go and have a chat with the artist.
Best of luck anyway.

[placidfemme]

Oh, whatcha getting done? You decided on a place for it yet?

well, the angel on my back is a tribal type abstract angel. So when you look at it, you can see the form of the angel but it's weird...

here: http://ccc.domaindlx.com/placidfemme/other/tamy1.jpg

And because I have another tribal type design on my right arm... I'll be getting a chick on my left arm, sort of tribal like, from her waist up (topless... but still classy) and she has wings too which look sorta like flames (very hard to describe... but I'm not gonna post any pic's until its inked on :)), and on her arm will be the tattoo that sam has on her arm... and then around my angel on the back is another tribal type design that will eventually work its way around/through the angel and towards both shoulders/arms.

Which will inable me to later build around it if I want to... maybe half sleeves, or the tribal can down my front similar to this: http://ccc.domaindlx.com/placidfemme/tat.jpg

It all sounds like a lot... and to many... too much... but until you see the finished product its hard to picture...

[placidfemme]

Pretty hard to enforce is the biggest problem with trying to copyright an image like this. Unless it is to be used for a trademark, or business purpose, it is bloody hard to achieve.
I would be putting some pressure on the person with the copy though and find out who did the work, then go and have a chat with the artist.
Best of luck anyway.

I thought about doing that last night... but I only bumped into the chick, and didn't talk to her for long, only long enough to notice the tattoo and ask her where she had it done, show her mine and thats about it... I wouldn't know how to contact her now...

[McJim]

I grew up in the world of Art (both parents artists) and international image copyright legislation came up from time to time. If the image is copyrighted (which is easy to do) you can only enforce the copyright where someone else has commercially exploited the image. If a tattoo artist copied your copyright image you could sue them if they got paid for the work but if 2 mates got together and the work was done for free without commercial gain I reckon you'd be onto plums.

A recent example was when Hallensteins used the pictures of Sculptures on T shirts. The case would have stuck coz Hallensteins were making commercial gain - think it got settled out of court tho'.

[placidfemme]

I grew up in the world of Art (both parents artists) and international image copyright legislation came up from time to time. If the image is copyrighted (which is easy to do) you can only enforce the copyright where someone else has commercially exploited the image. If a tattoo artist copied your copyright image you could sue them if they got paid for the work but if 2 mates got together and the work was done for free without commercial gain I reckon you'd be onto plums.

A recent example was when Hallensteins used the pictures of Sculptures on T shirts. The case would have stuck coz Hallensteins were making commercial gain - think it got settled out of court tho'.

so in short its not really worth the effort then :( kinda sad though

[sAsLEX]

A recent example was when Hallensteins used the pictures of Sculptures on T shirts. The case would have stuck coz Hallensteins were making commercial gain - think it got settled out of court tho'.

That was a wierd one, so can maoris (as they have ownership of a fair bit of NZ) stop people selling images of NZ on postcards?? As that was a sculpture in the public domain(literally) so surely you put it there and no longer own the IP of an image of it as it is a public space?

[Paul in NZ]

Look, DON"T take this the wrong way but..

Most graphic art is NOT unique. It tends to be influenced by trends in both design and changes in culture. ie - if 10 people had drawn a tattoo of an angel in the art deco period, all 10 would probably be easily identified as coming from that period. Every now and then an original design influences the trend and things change.

The current fashion was the 'tribal' one - you know it's nearly over because you can get 'tribal' decals for you bike.... ;-)

Art is also quite streamed, ie, people that paint in oils are influenced by oil painters so again, works of art in semilar media from a similar period will often have similarities.

So - In short, with this kind of art, which is usually derivative, it is more likely that 2 artist will produce remarkedly similar designs .... it may be innocent (ie saw it at a party and it just got burnt into her memory or anything like that who knows...) or it could be blatant a copy.

It meant something to you before you saw the copy, it should still mean something now. The original Mona Lisa is no less valuable because of the copies....

Paul N

[placidfemme]

Look, DON"T take this the wrong way but..

Most graphic art is NOT unique. It tends to be influenced by trends in both design and changes in culture. ie - if 10 people had drawn a tattoo of an angel in the art deco period, all 10 would probably be easily identified as coming from that period. Every now and then an original design influences the trend and things change.

The current fashion was the 'tribal' one - you know it's nearly over because you can get 'tribal' decals for you bike.... ;-)

Art is also quite streamed, ie, people that paint in oils are influenced by oil painters so again, works of art in semilar media from a similar period will often have similarities.

So - In short, with this kind of art, which is usually derivative, it is more likely that 2 artist will produce remarkedly similar designs .... it may be innocent (ie saw it at a party and it just got burnt into her memory or anything like that who knows...) or it could be blatant a copy.

It meant something to you before you saw the copy, it should still mean something now. The original Mona Lisa is no less valuable because of the copies....

Paul N

I fully understand what your saying... there isn't much "original" anything left these days...

It just upset me because it means so much to me... and it was very personal to me... I don't wear stuff that even shows that tattoo, because its not for other people, its for me. so it just bugged me big time... and now that someone else has the same tattoo, I want to change it so I know its the only one... well close to anyway

[Paul in NZ]

I fully understand what your saying... there isn't much "original" anything left these days...

It just upset me because it means so much to me... and it was very personal to me... I don't wear stuff that even shows that tattoo, because its not for other people, its for me. so it just bugged me big time... and now that someone else has the same tattoo, I want to change it so I know its the only one... well close to anyway

I feel that way about me bike.....

[McJim]

That was a wierd one, so can maoris (as they have ownership of a fair bit of NZ) stop people selling images of NZ on postcards?? As that was a sculpture in the public domain(literally) so surely you put it there and no longer own the IP of an image of it as it is a public space?
Interestingly put but I don't think so - in the case of landscape photography the art is not in the subject but in the image itself. Things like the composition, viewpoint, focus all come to bear - the subject matter is secondary except that is the subject matter's use that creates the art...or the postcard.
Nature itself cannot be art as the purpose of art is to reflect the perception of nature........

[sAsLEX]

Interestingly put but I don't think so - in the case of landscape photography the art is not in the subject but in the image itself. Things like the composition, viewpoint, focus all come to bear - the subject matter is secondary except that is the subject matter's use that creates the art...or the postcard.
Nature itself cannot be art as the purpose of art is to reflect the perception of nature........

Ok so I take a picture of the auckland skyline, dominated by that filthy big needle, can sky tower then stop me selling postcards ???

[McJim]

Ok so I take a picture of the auckland skyline, dominated by that filthy big needle, can sky tower then stop me selling postcards ???
I wouldn't have thought so - easy answer though - if they tried I'd just airbrush the eyesore out and sell the postards as 'The famous Auckland Skyline before the filthy big needle wor built' they'd be the loonies to lose the free advertising.
Why, is it something you're likely to do?

[Lias]

Some mates of mine said they met a dude in the pub with the same dagger tattoo on his arm as me.. Was a bit slutted as it was an original creation, but I shouldnt be too surprised because the tattooist put a picture of it up on the wall at the studio :-)

[sAsLEX]

I wouldn't have thought so - easy answer though - if they tried I'd just airbrush the eyesore out and sell the postards as 'The famous Auckland Skyline before the filthy big needle wor built' they'd be the loonies to lose the free advertising.
Why, is it something you're likely to do?

But is that not the same as taking pictures of some park in Ponsnoby with some silly fallen over shit in the grass? Which is what Hallenstiens did.

[McJim]

But is that not the same as taking pictures of some park in Ponsnoby with some silly fallen over shit in the grass? Which is what Hallenstiens did.
Pretty much - I think that was going to be the defence but it was probably suspected that a kiwi judge might consier that to be semantics - besides - the publicity wasn't all good and it was in the middle of a rebranding campaign for Hallensteins so they cut their losses and ran.

[sAsLEX]

Pretty much - I think that was going to be the defence but it was probably suspected that a kiwi judge might consier that to be semantics - besides - the publicity wasn't all good and it was in the middle of a rebranding campaign for Hallensteins so they cut their losses and ran.

More than likely having to pay out the "artist"


though I do like that sculpture.

[Skyryder]

I'm no expert but I think copyright is only for words...........as in 'copy.'

You can 'register' designs but it take only a small alteration to the registered design to make a new design.

Costs of enforcement.................just not worth it.

Skyryder

[Oakie]

well, the angel on my back is a tribal type abstract angel. So when you look at it, you can see the form of the angel but it's weird...
here: http://ccc.domaindlx.com/placidfemme/other/tamy1.jpg
.

Hey that's really nice PF. I like it a lot.
I got a pretty special tattoo a few months back ... our family crest ... and I think I'd feel the same way you do if I saw someone else with it not knowing what it represents.
Ummm, and before anyone asks ... no, it's not a dog pissing on a tree ... it's a wolf rampant against an oak tree (and yes, it's either a very big wolf or a very small tree)

[Colapop]

.... I want to change it so I know its the only one... well close to anyway
Yours is the only one. Your tattoo, you had done for you, for your reasons. It can be copied but the reason/s for your inkwork are yours. The rest are only poor imitations. The essence of your tattoo remains with you.

[boomer]

I was just wondering if one (me) could copyright a tattoo image or design.... .....yaddy yadda yaaah....With my angel tattoo, I very rarely posted any pics on the net, its never been printed/published in a magazine because I don't let people take pictures of it, and I refused to let the tattoo artist take a picture of it once he was done, and I took my papers home with me...

So I have no idea how this chick got my design. She reckons she got it done at some palour in Onehunga (or somewhere South) and I got mine in Ponsonby... so I don't know...

But in future, is there anyway I can stop people from stealing my own skin art? (Other than not getting one at all)

..... ummmm


yadda yaaadaa...
here: http://ccc.domaindlx.com/placidfemme/other/tamy1.jpg
...


too funny; Woooah is me.. wooooooaaaah ... oh wait.. whats this interwebby thing again.. its just bikers right....right?? RIGHT!!!! :/

And i can just imagine you seeing someone in the street and telling them your gonna sue 'em! i could hazard a guess what the persons response would be :bye:

its original.. 'COS IT's ON YOU !!!!! Get over it :whocares:

[boomer]

I got a pretty special tattoo a few months back ... our family crest ... and I think I'd feel the same way you do if I saw someone else with it not knowing what it represents.
Ummm, and before anyone asks ... no, it's not a dog pissing on a tree ... it's a wolf rampant against an oak tree (and yes, it's either a very big wolf or a very small tree)

You drew that well considering you had ya eyes closed and used the wrong hand :yes:

i don't think you have to worry about someone 'borrowing' your design :nya:

[McJim]

I'm no expert but I think copyright is only for words...........as in 'copy.'

You can 'register' designs but it take only a small alteration to the registered design to make a new design.

Costs of enforcement.................just not worth it.

Skyryder
Would I be right in guessing that you work in media somewhere? That's the only place I've hear the word 'copy' referring to words. In many of the catalogues of Art work I've dealt with the following words have been required: "Copyright of the image is retained by the artist and their estate" But that's in the UK, Europe and USA - I accept it might be different here.

[avgas]

Cant copyright tatts', tagging, or dances.

[El Dopa]

I knew my specialist subject would come up if I hung around here long enough.

I work in IP. That means Patents, Trademarks and Copyright. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about.

Copyright is an automatic right. You do not have to apply or pay any money to get it. If you go down the pub and doodle a stickman on an old beer mat - that image is copyright. You own the copyright in that image. If you paint, draw, sculpt, write a piece of music, or create any original piece of work - all copyright.

However, only the creator of the work owns it, unless they sign it over to someone else, or unless the creator was commissioned to do it.

So, PF, you might have copyright in the image, depending on the circumstances under which it was created. Or your friend might own it.

The kicker comes when you want to enforce your rights. You have to prove that there is an original work (the original sketches, NOT the tattoo). Then, you have to prove that the tattoo place in Onehunga or wherever it was directly or indirectly copied this original design, and didn't come up with it themselves. Even if you can track them down, they'll just say they came up with it independently (unless its so close they're clearly blatenty lying).

Taking action tends to be expensive, which is generally why its only big firms and famous artists that bother. Sorry.

[sunhuntin]

bugger!

yeh, i hate people who get other peoples tats on them. in saying that, 5 of my 6 are "off the wall" types, but i got the colors changed, size and other things. plus, as someone else said, the reason for your tattoo will always be original. my 5 off the walls are for people who have passed away. no one else will have my same butterflies for that reason.
you sent me a pic of your angel, and i thought it was beautiful. if id seen it on a wall, i might have thought about getting one similar. but, i saw it on flesh and to me, thats off limits.

[Paul in NZ]

Just another reason why I don't have any tats - I'm original...

Yup! Still in 'fresh outta that box' condition - apart from a bit of wear and tear that is... 'Played with' condition.

[Colapop]

Thanks for that mental picture Paul :sick: - many more hours of therapy ahead!!

[ManDownUnder]

You can copyright images yes, but the owner of that copyright needs to be agreed. Would it be you or the person that did the tattoo (your input, and their skill both went into creating it).

The problem comes in the defence of a breach of copyright... that costs money becuase our "learned friends" in the legal profession jump on the bandwagon, start their money extraction devices and begin talking...

Simplest and easiest is to enjoy what you have, maybe be flattered by another person liking it enough to want it. Or talk to the Tattoo place and let them know you'd prefer they don;t make your design available to others.

Good luck
MDU

[Skyryder]

Those countries that are signatories to the Bern Convention are bound to this agreement. So if you are a citizen of a country that has signed your work is protected by copyright in those countries that have also signed. New Zealand is a signatory as is Britain. America is not.

In the early sixties when Tolkeins Lord of the Rings was part of the counter culture this book was being published in the states with no royalties going to the author.

As an aside to this I now have no issue with copying dvd's or cd's which are part of American buisness. What is good for the goose is also good for the gander..............but wth copyright the American's are the first to steal others works and not pay royalties but get all shitty when someone does the same to them.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Just another reason why I don't have any tats - I'm original...

No tatts on me. I'm copyrighted...............by way of being older................I'm suing. :rofl:


Skyryder :bye:

[Skyryder]

Would I be right in guessing that you work in media somewhere? That's the only place I've hear the word 'copy' referring to words. In many of the catalogues of Art work I've dealt with the following words have been required: "Copyright of the image is retained by the artist and their estate" But that's in the UK, Europe and USA - I accept it might be different here.

No. Just had some fishing articles published a few years back. Been meaning to get some more serious writing in...(fiction)............I've got heaps of synopsis's done but that's seems to be about as far as I get. Wife's always on at me to something constructive instead of spending so much time here. But any writing is good practice.................that's what I tell her. But one day I'm going off line for some time.................but not yet.

Skyryder