The drink/driving cop

[Lou Girardin]

has appeared in court. A paramedic said that his actions undoubtedly saved the life of one driver and the Police Assoc has come out in support citing special circumstances.
It's said that the cop who breath tested him arrived 20 mins after Erwhen (?)
Isn't that great. Arrive late then start breath testing the people who are helping. It's a wonder he didn't check out the Ambo and Fire drivers too.

[McJim]

The most important thing here will be the court's decision. Ultimately the police officer making the arrest was enforcing the law which is his job irrespective of his own opinion of the law. It is the court's responsibility to provide Justice based on Law.
We must always remember that law does not always equal justice - I believe the officer found drunk acted correctly given the situation but equally that the arresting officer has upheld the law. I'm sure with a reasonable judge that justice will be obtained unless there is too much media interest and the government requires a 'sacrificial lamb'.
In short - I don't think we can blame either officer here.

[sAsLEX]

And its likely he wasn't as pissed as half the drivers on the road, good on the others for coming to his side

[Dooly]

Bloody madness he got tested, and is in court.
As I think someone said in another thread a while back, theres probably more behind the scenes, or personalities involved somehow.

[McJim]

If the media got a hold of a story that a copper was over the limit in charge of a vehicle and didn't get tested by another copper who was aware of it what do you think the story would have been?
The media would have spun it to make the police look as bad as possible as usual. We wouldn't have heard the mitigating circumstances and we'd all be writing on this forum about how police watch each other's backs.
I reckon a decent judge will give us all a pleasant surprise in this case..I'm watching this space with interest.

[Lou Girardin]

I hope the judge has the balls to use 'special circumstances' and discharge without conviction.
The breath testing cop better not have an accident himself around Mokau. I'd guess a lot of people would decide they're too drunk to go and help.

[yungatart]

There is the law of the land and then there are the laws of common decency and commonsense. We can only hope that it is the latter that prevails rather than the former.

[spudchucka]

It's said that the cop who breath tested him arrived 20 mins after Erwhen (?)
Isn't that great. Arrive late then start breath testing the people who are helping. It's a wonder he didn't check out the Ambo and Fire drivers too.
It may be that the breath test was done after a member of the public complained about the cop smelling of booze. Just a possibility??

[Colapop]

I thought it was one law for all? Yes there was a special situation in this case but could no-one have driven him to the scene? We must all be responsible for our actions.

[Drunken Monkey]

If the media got a hold of a story that a copper was over the limit in charge of a vehicle and didn't get tested by another copper who was aware of it what do you think the story would have been?

Erm, if he didn't get tested, then how would anyone know he was over the limit?

[MSTRS]

Erm, if he didn't get tested, then how would anyone know he was over the limit?
Good point. What I would like to know is how much over was he? If he blew 401 he's over, but if it was 399 (say) he'd be 'fine', yet his driving would be no different.
Situation he found himself in was 'damned either way'

[McJim]

Erm, if he didn't get tested, then how would anyone know he was over the limit?
Okay - bad choice of words by me - sorry. But you get what I mean - if witnesses could smell the alcohol and saw a policeman turn a blind eye coz it was another policeman there'd by cries of collusion.

[Edbear]

Saw the news tonight. Said he was 1/3 over? Having heard the circumstances surrounding this case I have sympathy for the Officer. A sole charge position and he was the only close Officer available. If it was me in his position I would probably have answered the call. Hope he gets a fair deal.

[Grahameeboy]

Seems unfortunate that the Duty guy thought breath testing was the priority, however, the guy had been drinking and driving which was wrong.............tough call I guess...... what would have happened if the guy was not a Police Officer............is the fact that he was a Police Officer irelevant, the issue being the consideration.
Sorry, just playing Devil's Advocate...........suspect I will get some abuse, however, just throwing it in anyway....

[spudchucka]

Good point. What I would like to know is how much over was he? If he blew 401 he's over, but if it was 399 (say) he'd be 'fine', yet his driving would be no different.
Situation he found himself in was 'damned either way'
His blood level was apparently in the low 100's. The limit is 80.

[MSTRS]

His blood level was apparently in the low 100's. The limit is 80.
Well....still damned either way. The 'right' outcome is "He is a drunk driver and must be made to pay just like everyone else" BUT the correct outcome should be "No-one died (in fact someone lived) because he drove. Tut tut, and we'll hear no more about it"
Glad it's not my call to decide....

[spudchucka]

Well....still damned either way. The 'right' outcome is "He is a drunk driver and must be made to pay just like everyone else" BUT the correct outcome should be "No-one died (in fact someone lived) because he drove. Tut tut, and we'll hear no more about it"
Glad it's not my call to decide....
If it was me I think I'd be taking the trial by jury option, I reckon most reasonable people would feel for the guy.

If it results in a conviction hopefully the "employer" will see reason and not sack the guy as they normally would.

[shafty]

The cop who "bagged him" is a Tosser.
The reason the political correctness has crept in is because of people with discretion, not using it.

[WINJA]

they need to throw the book at that pig and make an example of him , when i went to court one of the guys b4 me was in there for driving while disqualified , he was pulled up driving his very sick wife to hospital , the judge said no excuses you coulda taken a taxi and convicted him

[Winston001]

According to Closeup, his level was 120. Not high, not low. He was off-duty, played golf and was in the bar afterwards. Call came in about a bad crash 2km away. He waited thinking the ambo would arrive............but it didn't. So he took his Police vehicle with all of the crash rescue equipment (defribrillator, oxygen, etc) to the accident and did a good job.

Now, this man may have broken the law but the police do have a discretion in many situations to not lay a charge. Why that didn't happen here is anyones guess. I guess the only good thing is that the police heirarchy can point to this as an example of no favouritism.

Still sucks.

[shafty]

Taxi in Mokau? YEAH RIGHT

[JimO]

trust fucken winger to see reason

[Swoop]

He did the right thing, but...
On the news tonight it said they were drinking at the officers home. The media will probably move from the "he did right" chant, towards the "he shouldn't have let his mate drive in that condition" mode.

[oldrider]

Situation ethics, personal responsibility/accountability and judgement!
The Cop that tested him and charged him is a bloody zealous wanker.
(he could have handled that firmly and fairly another way entirely if he was competent and confident. IMHO)
Helen and her socialist bigots will probably give him a medal for "obeying zer rules" and not being tempted by common sense.
We can not have people who can think for themselves can we. :nono: John.

[WINJA]

According to Closeup, his level was 120. Not high, not low. He was off-duty, played golf and was in the bar afterwards. Call came in about a bad crash 2km away. He waited thinking the ambo would arrive............but it didn't. So he took his Police vehicle with all of the crash rescue equipment (defribrillator, oxygen, etc) to the accident and did a good job.

Now, this man may have broken the law but the police do have a discretion in many situations to not lay a charge. Why that didn't happen here is anyones guess. I guess the only good thing is that the police heirarchy can point to this as an example of no favouritism.

Still sucks.
HOW MANY 100S OF PEOPLE DIE EACH YEAR FROM DRUNK DRIVERS, HE RISKED THE LIVES OF OTHER DRIVERS BY DRIVING AND HES A PIG AND HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER , ITS DANGEROUS TO DRIVE DRUNK AND THATS THE REASON IT IS ILLEGAL, HE DOESNT DESERVE A LICENCE OR A JOB AS A COP

[nadroj]

According to Closeup, his level was 120. Not high, not low. He was off-duty, played golf and was in the bar afterwards. Call came in about a bad crash 2km away. He waited thinking the ambo would arrive............but it didn't. So he took his Police vehicle with all of the crash rescue equipment (defribrillator, oxygen, etc) to the accident and did a good job.

Now, this man may have broken the law but the police do have a discretion in many situations to not lay a charge. Why that didn't happen here is anyones guess. I guess the only good thing is that the police heirarchy can point to this as an example of no favouritism.

Still sucks.
According to locals his level was closer to 105 & he was at home after a round of golf. One of the deceased had been at his home with him having quiets and after being offered a ride home had more to drink. He then went for a pee & next thing they knew he had driven off. He got about 2km before crashing into mrs inocent. Constable Jono Erwood had medical supplies at his home (the oxygen bottles etc as their is no district nurse locally anymore) and took them to the crash scene and proceeded to provide help to the victims before the Cunstable from Waitara (40mins away) arrived. Jono was breath tested along with others & was taken back to Waitara for processing leaving the fire brigade to clean up dumbfounded as to what they had seen.

[WINJA]

Situation ethics, personal responsibility/accountability and judgement!
The Cop that tested him and charged him is a bloody zealous wanker.
OR HE WAS SHORT ON HIS QUOTA , FUNNY AYE A COP BEING A VICTIM OF THEIR OWN QUOTA , WITH THE RECENT HAPPENINGS WITH PIG QOUTAS AND LYING ABOUT IT AND BULLSHIT NONE OF THEM HAVE MY SYMPATHY ANYMORE

[willy_01]

There is some info missing here guys, someone did die in this accident infact 2 people, one of which was a good family friend. The cop in question was drinking with the guy that caused the crash, and let him head home, this i believe was the action that must be looked at as it caused the unnecessary death of a good friend. I can understand some peoples comments about the cops low level but the fact that he let his very intoxicated friend go (im sure the cop has a breath tester at home) is inexcusable. I think the change should be manslaughter.

[The_Dover]

hang the bastard.

[riffer]

Interesting case.

On the one hand ... he broke the law.

On the other hand... he saved someone's life.

And to play devil's advocate I will ask one question - if he chose to let someone else drive the police vehicle would that have been okay? By someone else, I mean a non-sworn officer in charge of the Police vehicle.

In my opinion he probably should not have driven there, but, like many others, probably thought he was under the limit.

Tough breaks. But so many others have fallen foul of the law as well, as Winja pointed out.

In the end, he should choose jury trial and will probably be found guilty, as he did break the law. Police should do the decent thing and stand by him. He won't lose his job but will get a jolly good telling off, will get a limited licence to do his job, and will learn the valuable lesson that a Police officer in a sole charge position in a small town, like a GP, plumber or other tradesman, is never really off duty.

[RT527]

Well I`ve heard a lot of people on talk back today talking about how he did the right thing and how would he feel if he didnt go and the person he helped had died as well, And IMO I think he shouldnt have gone!.
You Might think I`m a bit callous , but I dont question anymore about what if, or should have done if I did that I wouldnt be able to handle Being a volunteer anymore, If i had been drinking and the siren went up, And Lets face it no one can guess after a few beers how close to the limit they are, But if i made the decision that I`d had too much I wouldnt go, now you might say that theres plenty of other volunteers around but actually we dont hang around home or have a roster at our station.
Which means if your around you go, if not hard luck.
Anyways Most of the time someone has made a mistake and has got themselves and someone else in a mess and we go and clean it up whether its ambulance, fire,or police you have to be professional about it.Only difference is that out of those three only 1 of the proffessions is paid.
I sympathise with this officer though and wish him luck as he did save someone.
But before we say more I think we need to let this go Through the Courts and then we will find out the facts about what happened. What if the Deceased that was drinking with the constable only had two beers, Would you stop a mate driving after 2 -3 beers?.
IMHO I think he should be prosecuted for drink driving, but I also think He shouldnt Loose his job over it either.

[roogazza]

Discretion, is obviously not considered as an option nowdays, well not very often anyway!
Breathtesting another cop assisting at an accident scene and in those circumstances ! well fuck me ! double fuck me !
Another reason I'm so glad to be out of that job after 30 odd years !
The dumbing down of the NZ Police, I'm ashamed. G.

[ManDownUnder]

Why didn't he get someone to drive him to the accident?

If no-one was available for that then I think he probably did the right thing (unless he was well and truely legless). The law gets in the way sometimes.

[The_Dover]

The dumbing down of the NZ Police, I'm ashamed. G.

I'm surprised. Just when I thought they couldn't get any dumber

[Jantar]

But before we say more I think we need to let this go Through the Courts and then we will find out the facts about what happened. .....IMHO I think he should be prosecuted for drink driving, but I also think He shouldnt Loose his job over it either.

Yes, he did break the law, but he did it to save someone's life. The court does have discretion, in this type of case, to convict, then discharge under section 42. Effectively it means that although the person is guilty, a conviction would have harsher consequences than the offence warrants. Therefore no conviction would appear on his record, and his job ould be safe.

[acewheelie]

I have ridden drunk with a bloody traffic cop on the back of my bike.

Some people can drive/ ride pissed better than some of the half assed sober drivers.

The cop saved a life, get over it and move on.

[acewheelie]

errrr... and that was over twenty years ago, when my reaction times/ skills were better than they are now, these days I',d be lucky if I have a beer before I go out there.

Don't drink and drive.....

[SPman]

Laws - there for the guidance of wise men and the slavish adherence of idiots!

[ManDownUnder]

Laws - there for the guidance of wise men and the slavish adherence of idiots!

touche!..............

[McJim]

Hang on a minute - if the 2nd cop got there 20 minutes after the 1st cop then the 1st cop wouldn't have been driving at the time as he would have parked up some 20 minutes earlier. 2nd cop would therefore have been unable to witness 1st cop driving - 1st cop could allege sobriety whilst driving and then had a swift drink at the scene of the accident which put him subsequently over the limit.
What I'm getting at is that 2nd cop has no proof, merely assumption, that 1st cop drove to the scene. The only thing provable is the alcohol content.

we're obviously missing some facts here coz the above will not stand up in a reasonable court.

[Winston001]

Hang on a minute - if the 2nd cop got there 20 minutes after the 1st cop then the 1st cop wouldn't have been driving at the time as he would have parked up some 20 minutes earlier. 2nd cop would therefore have been unable to witness 1st cop driving - 1st cop could allege sobriety whilst driving and then had a swift drink at the scene of the accident which put him subsequently over the limit.
What I'm getting at is that 2nd cop has no proof, merely assumption, that 1st cop drove to the scene. The only thing provable is the alcohol content.

we're obviously missing some facts here coz the above will not stand up in a reasonable court.

Not if he admitted that he drove to the scene. And you are expecting him to lie about drinking and driving when other witnesses know differently. Furthermore the law presumes that your blood alcohol level at the time of testing is the same as at the time of driving. This is because people used to stop/get away for a short time, skull a few drinks, and then say the alcohol came after the driving. No defence.

[RT527]

Yes, he did break the law, but he did it to save someone's life. The court does have discretion, in this type of case, to convict, then discharge under section 42. Effectively it means that although the person is guilty, a conviction would have harsher consequences than the offence warrants. Therefore no conviction would appear on his record, and his job ould be safe.

Well then If they do this , I`m all for it.
Like I said he did save a life but at what risk to every one else did he do this, As they say it happens closest to home.

[scumdog]

His blood level was apparently in the low 100's. The limit is 80.

106.
Equals 530 in the breath test, give or take 1 or 2.

[scumdog]

I'm surprised. Just when I thought they couldn't get any dumber

Oh we can get dumber alright, don't worry about THAT, - we can get dumber until we equal the level of the public.

[scumdog]

BTW, Drunk 7 bottles of 7% Fighting Cock Bourbons tonight, blew 389 so that gives you an indication of drinks vs alcohol levels.:yes:

(I'm a 53year-old lardy-arse Harley rider that has had no tea so far, ya better put that into the equation):nya:

[Jantar]

BTW, Drunk 7 bottles of 7% Fighting Cock Bourbons tonight, blew 389 so that gives you an indication of drinks vs alcohol levels.:yes:

(I'm a 53year-old lardy-arse Harley rider that has had no tea so far, ya better put that into the equation):nya:

Your way ahead of me, I'm only 2/3 of the way through a bottle of Merlot.

[scumdog]

they need to throw the book at that pig and make an example of him , when i went to court one of the guys b4 me was in there for driving while disqualified , he was pulled up driving his very sick wife to hospital , the judge said no excuses you coulda taken a taxi and convicted him

Quite ferkin right, the dumb-arse SHOULD have called a taxi, what was he doing getting married to somebody who was sick anyway????.

[scumdog]

Your way ahead of me, I'm only 2/3 of the way through a bottle of Merlot.

Good shit Malcolm, too many people on this site that rant don't even have the excuse that they have been drinking so they're not qualified to post on a Friday night anyway, who the hell do they think they are???!!

[scumdog]

According to Closeup, his level was 120. Not high, not low. He was off-duty, played golf and was in the bar afterwards. Call came in about a bad crash 2km away. He waited thinking the ambo would arrive............but it didn't. So he took his Police vehicle with all of the crash rescue equipment (defribrillator, oxygen, etc) to the accident and did a good job.

Now, this man may have broken the law but the police do have a discretion in many situations to not lay a charge. Why that didn't happen here is anyones guess. I guess the only good thing is that the police heirarchy can point to this as an example of no favouritism.

Still sucks.

106 was the level so I've been told.

Trouble is, if he gets shown 'discretion' then every other brainless piss-head will come forward with a pathetic excuse as to why they should be shown 'discretion', i.e. 'my cat was sick and I had to get it to the vet'. Losers.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

106 was the level so I've been told.

Trouble is, if he gets shown 'discretion' then every other brainless piss-head will come forward with a pathetic excuse as to why they should be shown 'discretion', i.e. 'my cat was sick and I had to get it to the vet'. Losers.

Sorry not the same the cat can die.Not sure who you are calling a loser but i for one would support the officer and wouldn't call he a loser i would call him dedicated to his job.It must be hard to be a country cop are you supposed to stick to drink tea @ coffee and be on duty 24/7.Would you do that.

[scumdog]

Sorry not the same the cat can die.Not sure who you are calling a loser but i for one would support the officer and wouldn't call he a loser i would call him dedicated to his job.It must be hard to be a country cop are you supposed to stick to drink tea @ coffee and be on duty 24/7.Would you do that.

'Losers' was aimed at those that come up with pathetic excuses as to why they screwed-up.

Been-there, done-that in a small station, either working or on call for a whole week at a time except for two 8-hour dayshifts, was that way every second week.
A real drag I can tell you.

[hurricane_r]

i think it was slighlty innocent, surely u cant be sober 24/7 , ,

[scumdog]

he should be burned at the stake,!!!, iv been hit up twice now, and he should make a good example!


Twice! Are you some kind of slow learner?

And where has your caps key gone, did WINJA take it?:wait:

[hurricane_r]

yes slow learner, learnt my lesson the second time, from reading your posts u use the caps key more than anyone here, anyway im off to piha, have fun

[Grahameeboy]

i think it was slighlty innocent, surely u cant be sober 24/7 , ,

It is a difficult one eh.....as the only cop who knows he is never off duty I guess it could be argued that he has to be a good boy.....on other hand I guess he needs his own space too but then that is nature of his job.....tough one

I don't think he should lose his job though. If the accident had not happened he would have stayed at home.......it was not like he intentionally drank and drove if you know what I mean.............but he knew the law, he had been drinking so the question is could he have got a neighbour to drive him.....again easy for us to say......

I guess there has to be a message though.

[Ozzie]

He did the right thing, but...
On the news tonight it said they were drinking at the officers home. The media will probably move from the "he did right" chant, towards the "he shouldn't have let his mate drive in that condition" mode.
Sorry?

The guy in the crash was drinking at the officer's home?

if that is correct, was the injured driver over the limit? If yes and yes, then the cop should be slammed. Responsible host, drink driver, good job he saved the guy, but the guy wouldn't be in the possition if the cop had have done what all good hosts should.

All that said, it is speculative, I don't know the back ground.

If it wasn't as above, I think the officer still needs to found guilty of drink driving, but without punishment. He broke the law, that is simple, he should be held accountable, however, his actions saved someones life, that should be mitigating when it comes to punishment.

If that isn't done, it sends the message that under some circumstances it is ok to drink drive, where quite simply it is not.

I don't think he should be sacked though, which I understand is the norm if a cop is found guilty of an offense. (only if the victim was not at the cops place, or in the company of the cop prior to the accident)

[Ixion]

Said in the Harold today that the cop who pinged him was Highway Patrol. Figures.

And the commissioner's office wonders why there's a staff retention problem.
Esprit de what woz that again?

Guess that HP guy better pray like hell that he doesn't ever stop a carload of heavies who turn nasty on him. Sort of think that the backup might be rather slow responding.:wait:

[Ozzie]

Hang on a minute - if the 2nd cop got there 20 minutes after the 1st cop then the 1st cop wouldn't have been driving at the time as he would have parked up some 20 minutes earlier.

And presumably had 20 minutes for his BAC to have lowered, add to that the time actually at the accident, then the other 40 minutes to get back to the station for the evidential, so he would have had at least an hour, if not 2.

So, every likelyhood he would have been much higher when he actually was driving.

[crazybigal]

with all the shit about cops in the news, how can they not chuck the book at him! the powers above wont give a shit about him, its damage control time boys! hes fucked!!
Myself i think he did the right thing, but there is no way they can let him off scott free for it. I wouldnt want him to loose his job over it. how would you feel if you lost your job cos you got busted drink driving?
Maybe only let him drive on duty and make him pay his debt to the community in some way rather than giving money to the courts.
the town is lucky to have a cop! if it was in the city then yeah there is no way he would have been in that situation

[Lou Girardin]

It may be that the breath test was done after a member of the public complained about the cop smelling of booze. Just a possibility??

No spud, there is no Santa Claus.

[Lou Girardin]

HOW MANY 100S OF PEOPLE DIE EACH YEAR FROM DRUNK DRIVERS, HE RISKED THE LIVES OF OTHER DRIVERS BY DRIVING AND HES A PIG AND HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER , ITS DANGEROUS TO DRIVE DRUNK AND THATS THE REASON IT IS ILLEGAL, HE DOESNT DESERVE A LICENCE OR A JOB AS A COP

Don't have a bin near a sole charge town then winja. You wouldn't want a cop to break the law to help. Would you?

What a lot of weasle words are being spouted here. On one hand this, on the other hand that.................
What about the simple moral imperative that he has to help someone in trouble. I'd do what he did in a heartbeat.
The arsehole who tested him should be sent to Coventry.

[Ixion]

HOW MANY 100S OF PEOPLE DIE EACH YEAR FROM SPEEDING DRIVERS, HE RISKED THE LIVES OF OTHER DRIVERS BY DRIVING AND HES A PIG AND HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER , ITS DANGEROUS TO DRIVE FAST AND THATS THE REASON IT IS ILLEGAL, HE DOESNT DESERVE A LICENCE OR A JOB AS A COP

I edit Mr WINJA's post to illustrate a bit of selective morality here. Which doesn't mean that I condone drunken driving (careful coming down off the horse, it's awfully high) : or dangerous speed either . Merely that there's a time to follow the letter of the law, and a time to exercise common sense.

Folk here often call for the cops to use discretion. Here's one who did and IMHO he made the right call (though, the wrong one for him, in the event)

[Winston001]

There's a time to follow the letter of the law, and a time to exercise common sense.

Folk here often call for the cops to use discretion. Here's one who did and IMHO he made the right call

Well said.

It's a question of the greater good. Do a small wrong (drink/drive) to achieve a bigger right - helping the accident victims. I'm sure if we asked accident victims whether they wanted to lie there at the scene and wait, or be attended to by a mildly intoxicated professional, they'd take their chances with the professional.

[mdooher]

perhaps he didn't think to get someone to drive him cos he wasn't thinking straight...bit much beer?

Another thought... If he had asked someone to assist him in the execution of his duty and that person had been breath tested .... yeah well you can see where I'm going

[Winston001]

And presumably had 20 minutes for his BAC to have lowered, add to that the time actually at the accident, then the other 40 minutes to get back to the station for the evidential, so he would have had at least an hour, if not 2.

So, every likelyhood he would have been much higher when he actually was driving.

A common misconception. In fact the longer the time between the last drink, and the test, the higher the level. Subject to amount consumed and enough time - say 6 hours.

The human body can only process a certain mg/hour of alcohol. The excess just sits around turning you brain to mush. So after you stop drinking, your blood-alcohol (and breath) concentration continues to climb. The result is you'll have a higher level 2 hours later than at the moment of your last drink.

Ask any cop - they catch plenty of people at 8 - 9 am still pickled from last night.

[Winston001]

Sorry?

The guy in the crash was drinking at the officer's home?

if that is correct, was the injured driver over the limit? If yes and yes, then the cop should be slammed. Responsible host, drink driver, good job he saved the guy, but the guy wouldn't be in the position if the cop had have done what all good hosts should.


I don't know but there is an earlier post which says so, and that the driver left, avoiding a sober driver arranged for him. Can't blame the cop for that. It wasn't a party situation.

And honestly, how many of us can tell when a friend isn't fit to drive? Obviously if he's trollied, but most people just appear happy and fully in control. Very difficult to tell.

[Ozzie]

Ok, fair enough on both counts (ie. as in your words make sense), however, these are the people we look to for guidence of our youth, and to make the place safer.

Anyway, I am a little torn over which way to go in all honesty, I think what he did was wrong, but any person who saves a life is on a pedistal. Very hard call, glad I'm not on the jury.

Obviously a few people know more about this than I do,,,,,What caused the accident? Speed :nya: (sorry, intended for the safeas people), drink or ?.
Was it the guy who left the cops place?

And to whoever it was that made the post referencing a close family friend....A friend of yours or the copper's?

[candor]

Cop made a choice. In light of circumstances (assuming no-one else was right on hand to transport him) it was the right one. As time was of the essence. He was a bit over, but he obviously didn't feel a 2 k journey was beyond him. Its when you are way over your crash risk increases exponentially. Even so his crash risk on a 2 k rural trip had to be way lower than the risk of a death if he did not get the medical help to site ASAP.

All in all and speaking from a health professionals perspective I think he weighted things correctly. He risked getting in trouble more than he did causing another accident - and in order to do one of his more or most important duties. To protect life. Right and wrng is rarely black and white or clearcut and it changes with the times. While it is very non PC to drive over the limit especially for Police this does not mean there may never be a time it is justified.

I don't know what Police are taught. But in my training as part of profesionalism I was taught there may be times your professional duties cause you to have to weigh up whether to break the law. And I tell you health pros do it all the time. Butyou are putting yourself on the line. Times like visiting an addict with HIV who has illicit drugs and is about to share them with another who does not know their diagnosis - with the same needle.

You might give them a syringe as its in the public health interest. One of them might overdose with that syringe and die. You made a judgement call. It went wrong / or right depending. Another common one - euthanasia. It happens more often than people imagine. Leslie Martin did good IMO.

There are higher principles than the law. If we are human we must sometimes break it, especially if we are put in positions of trust and responsibility. The teen who sees drink driving cop as a bad example is not "getting" the whole picture here. There are always exceptions to the rule.

[Ozzie]

What if the cop and the driver had just been in a big bong session, would you have the same opinion?

My point is, drink driving kills people (as does drugs and driving), don't you think (and this is without basis as I don't know the details), if a drunk driver caused the accident, that it is ironic that the drunk driving officer that saves one of the victims is seen as "using descretion for the greater good"?

Hypocritical don't you think?

Good job the person didn't die. Yes, I think his decision worked out for the better. I also think, most drink drivers think it will work out for the better when they get behind the wheel also.

"My wife will be pissed if I don't come home....."
"I can't afford a cab......"
"God will my name be mud if I call ??? at 2am to come get me....."

Where is the line? There HAS to be one.

[spudchucka]

No spud, there is no Santa Claus.
Thats not what I've been told!

[spudchucka]

Ask any cop - they catch plenty of people at 8 - 9 am still pickled from last night.
Shit no. I thought those booze bus check points at that time were just to get the quota up.

[Ozzie]

Shit no. I thought those booze bus check points at that time were just to get the quota up.

Ohhh,,,,,that tongue is still in your cheek i see!

[candor]

If he had a bong plus alcohol I would not be so sympathetic. Likewise if he was double the legal limit.

I agree there has to be a line. I agree this looks hypocritical. But I'd not compare him the cop to the drink driver (if there was one) who caused this accident. They were on the road with no highly pressing reason. Unlike the cop. Who is only human too.

Yep draw the line. But draw it with some compassion. If he was my colleague I'd make no judgement against that cop n that situation and that is coming from someone who is totally against DUI and knows it is criminal.

[hurricane_r]

.......................hehe

[Shadows]

Well....still damned either way. The 'right' outcome is "He is a drunk driver and must be made to pay just like everyone else" BUT the correct outcome should be "No-one died (in fact someone lived) because he drove. Tut tut, and we'll hear no more about it"
Glad it's not my call to decide....

Mmmmmm..... I see the cop standing in the dock being charged with "driving with excess breath alcohol causing life"

[RT527]

He was a bit over, but he obviously didn't feel a 2 k journey was beyond him.
Ok this is the bit that Pisses me off......This is exactly the same excuse that drunk drivers take when they leave the pub to drive the often 1-2 kms home when they slam into an innocent person.I`ll say it again ...there Is NO!! excuse for Driving while intoxicated at all ever.
We carry oxygen on our fire appliances and some of our members are ambulance officers as well , also the knowledge that you pick up attending serious accidents often arriving well in advance of the ambulance,means that we have a better idea and skill base to often keep the more critical people alive than a lot of others.
Even Very basic things like basic first aid will keep a patient alive long enough for for an ambulance or first responder to take over.
Also in our area a doctor would be dispatched if it was as serious as a fatal or two.
I know this contradicts what I`ve just said but He is Also a hero in My eyes for having the balls to say Bugger the consequences I`m going cause i can make a difference.

[candor]

Hey - its not like he was SPEEDING or anything. Now what time was that he woulda left the house...
Actually I know a couple fireys who've left parties half cut to attend crashes, even recently!! Even since this

[Ixion]

OK. Lets put this into a biker context. You've settled down for a night of relaxation. You've had a few bevvies. Not wasted , but had a few. As we do. You live in a remote rural area. Comes a knock on the door. "Old Mrs Foofah has had a bad turn. We've seen Dr Glotch. He says, if we can get these pills to her tonight , she'll be fine. Otherwise, she'll be dead tomorrow morning. It's only 20km. But there's a slip on the road, road's only three foot wide through the slip , bike CAN get through; no four wheeled vehicle can. You're the on;y biker around." You're the only guy with a bike and a bike licence, in zonk miles. Will you take the pills to old Mrs Foofah? If you do, she'll live. If you don't she'll die"

OK. You call it, You gonna go start up the bike or not ? Remember, you've had a few. Me, I'm busy putting my helmet on. And want to explain your decision to Mrs Foofar's kids? And grandkids? Sort of hard to explain to 5 year olds why you left their Nana to die.

[Ixion]

Ok this is the bit that Pisses me off......This is exactly the same excuse that drunk drivers take when they leave the pub to drive the often 1-2 kms home when they slam into an innocent person.I`ll say it again ...there Is NO!! excuse for Driving while intoxicated at all ever.
,,

I hear what you're saying. And at one level I can't contradict it. But, as we demand a higher level of accountability from cops, ambos, firefighters (and we do) should we not extend them a higher level of discretion? Sometimes , rules *have* to be broken. and should we not extend to the trained professionals the curtesy of allowing them some discretion as to when it is appropriate to break them ? A cop, or ambo, or firefighter, or priest is not just someone wanting to get home. They put their own lives on the line day after day, can't we cut them some slack?

[RT527]

Hey - its not like he was SPEEDING or anything. Now what time was that he woulda left the house...
Actually I know a couple fireys who've left parties half cut to attend crashes, even recently!! Even since this
More Fool them. The Fire Service has clear cut rules about riding Fire Apliances while Drunk And if they are caught then they dont get a jury its Down the road.
As for the speed thing it only takes a momentary lack of attention to loose control even under 100 kmph.
I aint perfect, and yes Ixion I would be pulling on the helmet too but thats an extreme case scenario youve presented, as I`ve said there was options for that cop, there were other professionals attending that incident. Now we are getting into the what if discussions.

[texmo]

I edit Mr WINJA's post to illustrate a bit of selective morality here. Which doesn't mean that I condone drunken driving (careful coming down off the horse, it's awfully high) : or dangerous speed either . Merely that there's a time to follow the letter of the law, and a time to exercise common sense.

Folk here often call for the cops to use discretion. Here's one who did and IMHO he made the right call (though, the wrong one for him, in the event)
WINJA dosent respect the law and isnt an upholder of it.
The cop who drove drunk broke this law that he is supposed to uphold...

I still think he shouldnt be convicted and I hope he gets off on special conditions.

[candor]

RT527
I was not aware there was options for that cop. Just assumed there wasn't. But thats because I only know general jist of the story - maybe you have more info being up that way.

[Winston001]

RT527
I was not aware there was options for that cop. Just assumed there wasn't. But thats because I only know general jist of the story - maybe you have more info being up that way.

So far as I can tell, the "options" are only the opinions of other people who weren't there. And all suggested with the benefit of armchair hindsight.

The main option is that he could have found someone nearby who was sober to drive a police vehicle to the accident. Sounds easy. However this is a policeman whose professional duty is to help people. He is trained to respond - especially as a sole charge officer in a rural area. And he certainly would have been trained that no-one else drives a police vehicle.

We don't know whether there were any sober drivers immediately available. Furthermore, he sat and waited for an ambo to appear, agonising over the delay. Nobody turned up so he decided to get on with the job, which was an emergency anyway. There was no time to sit down and consult a manual of ethics and rules, wondering what 4 million other people would do in the same situation.

[Lou Girardin]

Ok this is the bit that Pisses me off......This is exactly the same excuse that drunk drivers take when they leave the pub to drive the often 1-2 kms home when they slam into an innocent person.I`ll say it again ...there Is NO!! excuse for Driving while intoxicated at all ever.
We carry oxygen on our fire appliances and some of our members are ambulance officers as well , also the knowledge that you pick up attending serious accidents often arriving well in advance of the ambulance,means that we have a better idea and skill base to often keep the more critical people alive than a lot of others.
Even Very basic things like basic first aid will keep a patient alive long enough for for an ambulance or first responder to take over.
Also in our area a doctor would be dispatched if it was as serious as a fatal or two.
I know this contradicts what I`ve just said but He is Also a hero in My eyes for having the balls to say Bugger the consequences I`m going cause i can make a difference.

The trouble is that none of what you said applies in this case. One of the paramedics said the cops actions saved a life - end of story.
The best possible reason for driving under any circumstances

[buellbabe]

Why didn't he get someone to drive him to the accident?

If no-one was available for that then I think he probably did the right thing (unless he was well and truely legless). The law gets in the way sometimes.
I am inclined to agree with you MDU...

Someone else also mentioned that the other copper was an over-zealous wanker...
Well I have had 'dealings' with the D.I.C'd Mokau cop (translation:speeding tickets) and can testify that when ON-duty he is just as over-zealous!!!

But as far as this incident is concerned, yeah he probably shouldn't have driven to the scene but at the time I'm sure ALL he thought about was saving lives...

[nadroj]

RT527
I was not aware there was options for that cop. Just assumed there wasn't. But thats because I only know general jist of the story - maybe you have more info being up that way.
Get yourself a map lad - Thames is about 4 hours travel away on a good day

[nadroj]

I am inclined to agree with you MDU...

Someone else also mentioned that the other copper was an over-zealous wanker...
Well I have had 'dealings' with the D.I.C'd Mokau cop (translation:speeding tickets) and can testify that when ON-duty he is just as over-zealous!!!

But as far as this incident is concerned, yeah he probably shouldn't have driven to the scene but at the time I'm sure ALL he thought about was saving lives...
I would be surprised if it the same cop. An over zealous cop (highway Patrol)from up TeKuiti way often visits the region and has caused problems for others on this site before. The local cop drives a Toyota 4WD ute police vehicle.

[McJim]

has appeared in court.
Does anyone know what stage in the proceedings this case has reached?

We've all got loads of opinions and plenty of conjecture but it would be good to find out what's going on.

[nadroj]

Does anyone know what stage in the proceedings this case has reached?

We've all got loads of opinions and plenty of conjecture but it would be good to find out what's going on.
He has been remanded without plea for 2 weeks.

[Hitcher]

This is the same Mokau cop who attended the accident of a mate who minutes earlier had been drinking with that same cop and had departed the cop's residence heavily under the affluence of incohol to then become involved in a serious road accident?

I think that the cop turning up pissed to the accident scene is the lesser of the crimes involved here.

[Lou Girardin]

Apart from the dead drivers offences, what others are you referring too?

[k14]

Don't have enough time to read the whole thread. But the problem I have with this case is the legal precedent that it would set by finding him not guilty. If he's found not guilty then this could just be the tip of the iceberg.

What happens if in 6 months time the same situation arises again. Cept this time the cop kills someone on the way to the crash? I doubt there would be anyone saying let him go free this time.

[Lou Girardin]

Don't have enough time to read the whole thread. But the problem I have with this case is the legal precedent that it would set by finding him not guilty. If he's found not guilty then this could just be the tip of the iceberg.

What happens if in 6 months time the same situation arises again. Cept this time the cop kills someone on the way to the crash? I doubt there would be anyone saying let him go free this time.

That would be a different charge then. Discharge without conviction doesn't set a precedent in the legal sense.

[Hitcher]

Apart from the dead drivers offences, what others are you referring too?
This cop let his best mate drive while pissed. While not technically a "crime", it is something he had power to prevent.

[Patrick]

Mokau is 55 mins north of New Plymouth. No first response there, nearest oxygen bottles are at Tongaporutu, 15 minutes away. Cop is sole charge, there is no other. He went and saved a life, has oxygen on board and with the help of the volunteer brigades and medicos who arrived, did a fine job. If he didn't go, what then????

Damned if he did or did not.

There WERE people pointing out that he had been drinking to one of the other cops who attended. If HE did something or not... damned if HE did or didn't... again...(regardless of wether he was HP or whatever).

The woman killed was the innocent party. Her husband was hospitalised, sober god faring folk on thier side of the road who did nothing wrong. The other was drinking at the cops place, a recidivist drink driver at that... wait and see what his level was folks...

Let the courts decide the outcome and result. Not the uninformed on here.....

[muzz]

My 2 c
Sole charge cop has all the emergency equipment 2 k's from site of fatal crash.
Driving while under the influence.
Secured site saved a life.
If I was the Judge then : D.I.C. Guilty , Convicted and discharged with suspended sentence.
If I was his boss : Reprimand and written warning.

Have to agree with you Patrick he was damed if he did or did not.

[Lou Girardin]

This cop let his best mate drive while pissed. While not technically a "crime", it is something he had power to prevent.

Now you're getting into the area of when do you stop being a cop. Do you sacrifice your entire life to the force and live with no mates?
What about group rides when, as a cop, you see dangerous riding?
Dob people in?
This has to be one of the biggest problems as a small town cop.
As far as I was concerned, I went near deaf and blind when out of uniform. Lost my sense of smell too.:blip:

[Scouse]

A common misconception. In fact the longer the time between the last drink, and the test, the higher the level. Subject to amount consumed and enough time - say 6 hours.

The human body can only process a certain mg/hour of alcohol. The excess just sits around turning you brain to mush. So after you stop drinking, your blood-alcohol (and breath) concentration continues to climb. The result is you'll have a higher level 2 hours later than at the moment of your last drink.

Ask any cop - they catch plenty of people at 8 - 9 am still pickled from last night.Bollox blow into an evidential breath test after sluging back a strait spirit and see what happens it is different for a blood test but breath tests can over read because of risidual mouth alcohol

[scumdog]

Bollox blow into an evidential breath test after sluging back a strait spirit and see what happens it is different for a blood test but breath tests can over read because of risidual mouth alcohol

Bollox.
There has to be a 20 minute delay after the last drink before the Evidential Breath Test - that time delay would negate any residual alcohol from the subjects mouth.

I have seen ONE blood test come back looking better for the subject (and not by much) compared to the breath test AND it was still well over the limit.

Lawyers won't let us advise their clients but the only hope with a blood test is that the sample gets hi-jacked by aliens or something.

OR if you had a REALLY low breath count and genuinely had bugger all to drink then it may be worth a shot.

But remember, if you lose - you pay (analyst and medical fees of about $240 or more depending on where you are)

[Lou Girardin]

Bollox.
There has to be a 20 minute delay after the last drink before the Evidential Breath Test -)

How does the cop know that?

[Scouse]

Bollox.
There has to be a 20 minute delay after the last drink before the Evidential Breath Test - that time delay would negate any residual alcohol from the subjects mouth.

I have seen ONE blood test come back looking better for the subject (and not by much) compared to the breath test AND it was still well over the limit.

Lawyers won't let us advise their clients but the only hope with a blood test is that the sample gets hi-jacked by aliens or something.

OR if you had a REALLY low breath count and genuinely had bugger all to drink then it may be worth a shot.

But remember, if you lose - you pay (analyst and medical fees of about $240 or more depending on where you are)So its not realy Bollox you've just admited that there is a residual mouth alcohol problem that needs a 20 minute delay

[scumdog]

How does the cop know that?

Figures the car is only 10 minutes from the station and drives around for another 10 minutes before going to the station??????? Sheesh.

[Lou Girardin]

I was thinking of booze buses. Do they engage in small talk for 20 mins?

[scumdog]

I was thinking of booze buses. Do they engage in small talk for 20 mins?

I guess (since you wouldn't want an artificially high reading) a sensible person would *not lie about how far back they had their last drink.

If it was THAT recently you would give 'em time.

*But then we're talking about alcohol enhanced minds here.

[Lou Girardin]

If I was in that position, I'd say I had a swig in the car just before the flashers went on.

[RT527]

RT527
I was not aware there was options for that cop. Just assumed there wasn't. But thats because I only know general jist of the story - maybe you have more info being up that way.
Nah Mate , when it comes to it theirs allways another option, everyone will say that he didnt have time to think about other options , well i say bollix to that as he is a trained professional whos not supposed to take his hat of and put on a cauliflower.
Other options , if he had a good working relationship with the local fire brigade why not go to the fire station, hey I know he`d technically be driving still but if he can hear the Siren i bet he`s within spitting distance and less chance of him pulling himself over ,then he`d be able to put oxygen and defib onto appliance and go with them.

[RT527]

Now you're getting into the area of when do you stop being a cop. Do you sacrifice your entire life to the force and live with no mates?
What about group rides when, as a cop, you see dangerous riding?
Dob people in?
This has to be one of the biggest problems as a small town cop.
As far as I was concerned, I went near deaf and blind when out of uniform. Lost my sense of smell too.:blip:
Exactly.....Also My Biggest and underlying thought on all this is The fact that the cop should never have been put in this position, and the Heart of this Problem Is the fact that our Police force is Horribly understaffed and unsupported, why is there not a back up cop sent to little 1 man stations when they are rostered off?.
Then even if the back up officer is`nt a first responder he could allways have driven drunk cop to scene, Awwww Feck here we go with conjecture and what ifs again.
Gonna wait till case is heard before I voice any more Opinions.

[Speedracer]

If I was in that position, I'd say I had a swig in the car just before the flashers went on.

but wouldn't you shoot yourself in the foot, literally drink driving?

[scumdog]

If I was in that position, I'd say I had a swig in the car just before the flashers went on.

Pah! you and 15,000 alcohol addled drivers! about every third driver trys that, makes no difference, the lawyers took care of that..

Blame it on "I just had a drink as you stopped me" if you want but by the second ebt blow you've cleared any alcohol from your mouth and as you know, it takes the lower reading as the result.

[scumdog]

So its not realy Bollox you've just admited that there is a residual mouth alcohol problem that needs a 20 minute delay

THAT is why it is not a problem, we know to wait, and from 'experimenting it takes a lot less than 20 minutes to get a true reading.

Anybody that insists in a ebt about a minute after a drink is a dick - and by the time it takes to get to the second test it would give a true result anyway.

[spudchucka]

Does anyone know what stage in the proceedings this case has reached?.
First appearance was last week, no plea was entered.

[spudchucka]

This cop let his best mate drive while pissed. While not technically a "crime", it is something he had power to prevent.
Thats pure speculation, nothing has been proven in that regard. There are also stories stating that the pissed mate snuck away without the cops knowledge, which story is true? Do we care or do we just go with the story that suits us the most?

[spudchucka]

Bollox blow into an evidential breath test after sluging back a strait spirit and see what happens it is different for a blood test but breath tests can over read because of risidual mouth alcohol
Thats why the instructions on evidential breath testing machines state you should wait 20 minutes after the last drink before conducting the test. Which coincidentally is about the length of time it usually takes to process someone at the road side, transport them to a police station, complete the paper work and then have them blow in the machine. Convenient aye.

[spudchucka]

How does the cop know that?
As per above, or:

Note book entry: Time he went 3T........

Note book entry: Time he required evidential breath test.

Didn't you snakes use notebooks?

[spudchucka]

If I was in that position, I'd say I had a swig in the car just before the flashers went on.
And if you were pissed do you think an additional 20 minutes would make any difference?

[The Pastor]

I was talking to a cop, and he said to be above 80 (what ever the units are) you have to be pretty pissed....

[Hitcher]

Exactly.....Also My Biggest and underlying thought on all this is The fact that the cop should never have been put in this position
The fact is that the cop put himself in this position. If he had not let his mate drive off into the night pissed the world today would be a different place. We wouldn't be having this discussion for one thing, and there would be one more person alive in the world.

[buellbabe]

The fact is that the cop put himself in this position. If he had not let his mate drive off into the night pissed the world today would be a different place. We wouldn't be having this discussion for one thing, and there would be one more person alive in the world.
Well when you put it like that its pretty hard to dispute... altho I feel sorry for the cop I have to agree with your point of view.

[ManDownUnder]

The fact is that the cop put himself in this position. If he had not let his mate drive off into the night pissed the world today would be a different place. We wouldn't be having this discussion for one thing, and there would be one more person alive in the world.

You can not hold a cop (or anyone) responsible for the actions of another. If I choose to do something dumb... it's my choice. Whether a cop or anyone else agrees or disagrees is another issue entirely and hardly adds to the culpability of the non driver/idiot.

The response of the cop to the accident is what's in questions here.


Thats pure speculation, nothing has been proven in that regard. There are also stories stating that the pissed mate snuck away without the cops knowledge, which story is true? Do we care or do we just go with the story that suits us the most?

Per my comment above.

No, we don't go with the story that suits us best (just reiterating your point) and no we shouldn't care. It's of interest only - nothing more important than that in respect of the guy driving away.

It would bring into question the cops judgement while drunk... but then I believe that alcohol impairs judgement, and that's well known

[Hitcher]

You can not hold a cop (or anyone) responsible for the actions of another. If I choose to do something dumb... it's my choice.
You may think that, but infortunately the law, in many areas, has a different view. OSH legislation is pretty clear on this, for one. Yes, you have a god-given right to do something dumb, but there are occasions when others have to face consequences for this dumbness.

But then there's the moral side of the matter. I know that people often (unnecessarily) beat themselves up because of things they think they should have done that may have stopped something bad happening. But then there are times when they should have taken action but didn't, for whatever reasons.

This case points a big finger at a local Constable. But the wider Mokau community needs to take a long, hard look at itself as well, because it is also complicit in this most tragic saga.

[Ixion]

OSH is irrelevant, it was not in the workplace.

[ManDownUnder]

You may think that, but infortunately the law, in many areas, has a different view. OSH legislation is pretty clear on this, for one. Yes, you have a god-given right to do something dumb, but there are occasions when others have to face consequences for this dumbness.

Really? I didn't think this would fall under the jurisdiction of OSH (although it wouldn't surprise if it somehow did...!)

Can I be an accessory to speeding or drunk driving by not stopping (or even encouraging) someone to drink drive?


But then there's the moral side of the matter. I know that people often (unnecessarily) beat themselves up because of things they think they should have done that may have stopped something bad happening. But then there are times when they should have taken action but didn't, for whatever reasons.
Agred 100%, but morals are highly subjective and don't hold sway in court


This case points a big finger at a local Constable. But the wider Mokau community needs to take a long, hard look at itself as well, because it is also complicit in this most tragic saga.
How (does it point the finger at the Mokau community at large - the cop I can understand...)

[Hitcher]

OSH is irrelevant, it was not in the workplace.
That's not what I meant. And you know it.

[Hitcher]

How (does it point the finger at the Mokau community at large - the cop I can understand...)
Mokau, while situated in one of the most visually stunning parts of New Zealand, is a bit of a sad-fuck community, populated by a diverse range of folk many of whom seem to like losing themselves under the influence of various mind-altering substances. In short this community has a bit of a problem with booze and drugs. And driving under the influence of said. It's also largely a one-road town. In this case SH3, which is a bit of a race track between Mt Messenger and the Awakino Gorge, and which also has a lot of heavy traffic on it at all times of the day and night.

In such a situation there is a limited amount a resident sole-charge Constable can do, without alienating himself from the community he is charged with serving. To advance any change, the community itself needs to acknowledge that it has a problem. Hopefully this tragedy will be the wake-up call it needs.

[ManDownUnder]

In such a situation there is a limited amount a resident sole-charge Constable can do, without alienating himself from the community he is charged with serving. To advance any change, the community itself needs to acknowledge that it has a problem. Hopefully this tragedy will be the wake-up call it needs.

I know the town well (being a Naki boy from years gone by...) and what you say is true - makes sense now my brain is starting to function.

[scumdog]

If he had not let his mate drive off into

Define 'let'.

And how do we know he 'let' his friend drive off?


Drunks are full of all kinds of subterfuge.

[Lou Girardin]

but wouldn't you shoot yourself in the foot, literally drink driving?

Say, not do. Drinking while driving isn't an offence, yet.

[Lou Girardin]

And if you were pissed do you think an additional 20 minutes would make any difference?

I don't drive pissed, but if I thought I was marginal I'd delay any way I could.

[Patrick]

I guess (since you wouldn't want an artificially high reading) a sensible person would *not lie about how far back they had their last drink.

If it was THAT recently you would give 'em time.

*But then we're talking about alcohol enhanced minds here.


Is that like how they wouldn't lie and all say I only had a couple of beers and then blow over 1000? Fucken big beers!!!!

[Patrick]

I was thinking of booze buses. Do they engage in small talk for 20 mins?

Only if they have nice tits.:blip: :blip: :blip:

[Deano]

OSH is irrelevant, it was not in the workplace.

The road is not a workplace for Police ?

I drive a lot at work and driving is listed as a hazard in our permanent hazard register ?

Have our H&S consultants mislead us ?

[Patrick]

The fact is that the cop put himself in this position. If he had not let his mate drive off into the night pissed the world today would be a different place. We wouldn't be having this discussion for one thing, and there would be one more person alive in the world.


In fact two, but one was a recidivist pisshead driver...

[Ixion]

The road is not a workplace for Police ?

I drive a lot at work and driving is listed as a hazard in our permanent hazard register ?

Have our H&S consultants mislead us ?

It wasn't the Police bod who crashed. And the drinking didn't take palce in the workpalce or as part of the job of anyone.

Road's only a workplace when it's a workplace. Sounds silly , but y'know what I mean.

[RT527]

It wasn't the Police bod who crashed. And the drinking didn't take palce in the workpalce or as part of the job of anyone.

Road's only a workplace when it's a workplace. Sounds silly , but y'know what I mean.
Can someone clarify a point for me ...Did Comms call the Off duty officer, Or did he Call them....also if they called him then as i understand it he would have logged on with comms ...which means he would be payed for the time that he responded I guess up untill the other officer Breath tested him?, or was he doing it all for free, and I can safely say that no officer of the police force is gonna work for free!!!.Hell they dont get payed enough as it is....OH dang just replyed when I said I wouldnt....Mind you this is one hell of a debate, and I cant stay away from it.
No one person who has responded to this thread is right , nor are the wrong these are all opinions of widely diverse people and I must say if I read it right then every one is living in two worlds ...Even me, On one hand we want the police to be upholders of the law and do no wrong yet we are eager to bend the rules for an indiscretion that if it had been joe public there would be no debate and I`m sure as shit Know that my mates in the Police force wouldnt be in court saying "But hes a really good guy and he should be discharged without conviction"
Come on people be honest with yourselves had he crashed on the way youd be pushing for him to go inside for 10 to 20yrs !!!!!.
Sorry People but thats how I see it and if I`m wrong I`ll be the first to say yup Fair call.
Have a Bloody good day All.

[Lou Girardin]

Only if they have nice tits.:blip: :blip: :blip:

Then out the back for a 'special' breath test huh?

[Lou Girardin]

Come on people be honest with yourselves had he crashed on the way youd be pushing for him to go inside for 10 to 20yrs !!!!!.



No.
10 char

[Finn]

Say, not do. Drinking while driving isn't an offence, yet.

Yeah, but drinking while riding is difficult and hard to conceal.

[The_Dover]

Yeah, but drinking while riding is difficult and hard to conceal.

Camelbak full of Lion Red anyone?

[Lou Girardin]

Yeah, but drinking while riding is difficult and hard to conceal.

Camelbacks.

[ManDownUnder]

Then out the back for a 'special' breath test huh?

OI OI - that sounds (and can taste) a bit fishy...

[Finn]

Camelbacks.

Great idea. I've got one of those too. Will 3 litres put me over the limit?

I loved the good old days when you weren't frowned upon for drinking and driving. The cops used to do it. Hell, even the drivers in F1 used to drink champers before the race.

[Lou Girardin]

OI OI - that sounds (and can taste) a bit fishy...

Really? Tell us more.

[Patrick]

Then out the back for a 'special' breath test huh?

No, no, thats the oral contract from Taumarunui I think...???

[The_Dover]

I loved the good old days when you weren't frowned upon for drinking and driving. The cops used to do it. Hell, even the drivers in F1 used to drink champers before the race.

when i moved to new zealand i was informed it was the national sport.

[Lou Girardin]

Great idea. I've got one of those too. Will 3 litres put me over the limit?

.
No. The rule is two litres for the first hour and one litre an hour after that.

[Finn]

No. The rule is two litres for the first hour and one litre an hour after that.

What even for a lil fella like me?

[The_Dover]

Jesus christ Lou,

that's a lot of scotch. It'll have to be the rough stuff...

[The_Dover]

What even for a lil fella like me?


You can have shandy finn.

[ManDownUnder]

when i moved to new zealand i was informed it was the national sport.

It was for a while... just after they outlawed twarf tossing.

Who wants to toss off a dwarf anyway?

[The_Dover]

It was for a while... just after they outlawed twarf tossing.

Who wants to toss off a dwarf anyway?

Finn's missus?

[texmo]

This is probbly one of the most intresting threads I have read in a long while. Its funny how other people thoughts influence your way of thinking. Or maby thats just my young mind be manulipulated.

[spudchucka]

I don't drive pissed, but if I thought I was marginal I'd delay any way I could.
Thats fair enough but a 20 minute delay wil do f-all, in fact your blood level will likely increase.

[Lou Girardin]

Thats fair enough but a 20 minute delay wil do f-all, in fact your blood level will likely increase.

My metabolism is by Suzuki, very very fast.

[scumdog]

My metabolism is by Suzuki, very very fast.


A medical aberation?
Somebody with two lver perhaps?

Lots of people would give their right whatever to metabolise alcamahol quickly.

[Swoop]

Sole charge policeman let off drink-driving charge

Wednesday September 13, 2006
By Jon Stokes


The sole charge Taranaki policeman charged with drink-driving after going to a fatal crash on his day off has been let off without conviction.

"You were dealing with an emergency," Judge Louis Bidois told Jonathan Erwood.

"You had to make a snap decision, effectively on the hoof."

Mr Erwood's supporters, packed into the New Plymouth District Court, burst into applause at the decision.

Mr Erwood, 37, the sole-charge officer in the small town of Mokau, was charged with drink-driving after he drove his police vehicle to the scene of a double fatality on July 9.

In court today, he pleaded guilty but was discharged without conviction.

He will also keep his driver's licence.

Mr Erwood attended the accident in which Clint Ratima, 32, of Aria, and New Plymouth physiotherapist Jennifer Trentham, 48, died.

Mrs Trentham's husband, Richard, was taken to Taranaki Hospital with serious injuries.

Mr Erwood - who was not on duty on the day of the accident - was breath-tested at the crash scene by a highway patrol officer who said he smelled alcohol on the constable's breath.

Blood testing allegedly revealed 106 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood. The legal limit is 80 milligrams.

The charge polarised the small township. Several people, including emergency workers who attended the accident, supported Mr Erwood, who is heavily involved in community clubs and events.

The case was clouded by the fact that Mr Erwood had played golf and was drinking with Mr Ratima before the accident. However, he was not present when Mr Ratima got into a car, drove north, failed to take a corner and hit the Trenthams.

Judge Bidois ruled that special circumstances applied in this case.

He told Mr Erwood: "You risked your career to attend the accident. Your instincts were to help."

The judge added: "For 16 years you have performed with distinction as a police officer. There will be a real risk you will lose your job if convicted. That decision is not for me.

"It would be, in my view, wrong, however.

"Police would have lost a good man and Mokau would be losing a very good police officer and a very strong member of the community."

Afterwards, a relieved Mr Erwood thanked his supporters and said he was looking to the future.

"I'm looking forward to moving on and getting on with it.

"That was stage one. I have stage two to deal with," he said, referring to an internal police disciplinary investigation, which is currently under way.

[candor]

I just want to say "yaaayyyyy". He lost a friend, the physios family will think he's dirt for letting friend go on the road drunk (when he might have had no control of that). Isn't that nuff punishment.

That might be the first Judge I've ever seen not be an idiot. I'm shocked.
For Judges rate lowest on my species list. They are the cream of our finest scum ie crim lawyers - snakes in suits - moneyed psychopaths on the whole.

[placidfemme]

yeah I'm glad to see he walked from that as well...

[Hitcher]

The outcome of the Police disciplinary hearing will be interesting.

[SPman]

That might be the first Judge I've ever seen not be an idiot. I'm shocked.
For Judges rate lowest on my species list. They are the cream of our finest scum ie crim lawyers - snakes in suits - moneyed psychopaths on the whole.
Really?
You must know different judges to me..................

[sels1]

For once, common sense seems to have prevailed

[Ixion]

Well well. I also am surprised. A notable victory for common sense. Well done Mr Judge :yes:

Hard for the PTB to discipline him now - he has no conviction. At most I suppose some sort of "conduct unbecoming" stuff. Even that would he hard.

A very good result i think. And it certainly must be a great relief to the cop. Mind you, I suspect the judge will get some shit thrown his way over it.

[McJim]

Nice to see everything happened just as I predicted when this thread first started.

Thankin' you.

Posts #2 and #5 specifically.

[candor]

Really?
You must know different judges to me..................

You know a good one SP? Well thats nice. I've dealt with 2 high court ones as a victim of serious crime who were both certainly corrupt. One I can prove this - also that he leaned on the prosecutor to let a mate off the hook by not "pushing this one too hard"(even tho he withheld release of HIS trial notes 7 years then had all 3 copies tampered with).

With the other case of corruption the facts if you knew them speak for themself. Lost evidence, friendly with wrong people - weird rulings etc

I also have close rellys in gangs too who dealt with the young nippers (now judges) when they were in law school. And could tell some very interesting stories about where that led to. They have had their inquiries in Oz, and inquiry re Police here. But I tell u the judiciary is where its really at. They (certain ones) would lead the world in dirty dealings here.

There was a reason the judges fought hard against having their rulings displayed on the internet (as of this month). As it will make it harder for them to conceal hijinx. Before there was ZERO transparency as high court judges OWNED the trial notes - and could prevent people reading thru summarily.

[Clockwork]

It sucks.

Once again the courts have placed the Police above the law!!

If it had been any one of you taking a sick family member to a hospital while over the limit you would have got nailed. No excuses!!

[FROSTY]

I think justice in this case was served. I'd have been upset if the cop blew 200 something like that.He blew 10% over the legal limit I know theres a line in the sand -a legal amount we can drink and still be allowed on the road -He was over it but gosh darn it --for a VERY good reason.

[spudchucka]

Once again the courts have placed the Police above the law!!

No, they have recognised the very unique circumstances involved and have made the correct decision.

[The_Dover]

I wonder if the CAA would recognise the same "unique circumstances" if my old man flew a rescue mission pissed?

[sAsLEX]

The outcome of the Police disciplinary hearing will be interesting.


For once, common sense seems to have prevailed

I think sels1 one would have to wait for the Police Disciplinary thing before that statement is true.

[willy_01]

guttered, poor Richard will be upset to think his beloved wife's death has made a hero out of an intoxicated cop that let his 'drunker' mate drive, and kill an innocent motorist, especially when neither of them drunk at all!
For the record I think this decision sucks.:angry:

[Drunken Monkey]

Well the verdict certainly sets an interesting legal precedent. How may others use this to their advantage?

[WINJA]

No, they have recognised the very unique circumstances involved and have made the correct decision.
THE LAW IS THE LAW AND THE PIGS CLEARLY THINK THEIR ABOVE THE LAW , DRUNK DRIVING COP GETS OFF , SPEEDING MOTORCADE COPS GET OFF ITS BULLSHIT , WHEN IM DOING 115 KMH DOWN HILL ON A CLEAR DAY IN DRY CONDITIONS THAT ALSO MAYBE SEEN AS A UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE SO SURELY I SHOULD GET OFF THAT TICKET , ITS BULLSHIT ONE LAW FOR ALL THAT PIG SHOULD LOSE HIS LICENCE AND GET PD, THIS CUNTRYS LEGAL SYSTEM IS FUCKEN CORUPT , THE PIGS ARE CORUPT AND THE POLITICIANS ARE LIARS AND OF COURSE CORUPT AS WELL

[Lou Girardin]

It sucks.

Once again the courts have placed the Police above the law!!

If it had been any one of you taking a sick family member to a hospital while over the limit you would have got nailed. No excuses!!

C'mon now, compare apples with apples. If you lived in the wops and there was absolutely no alternative to driving slightly over the limit in order to save a life, you would more than likely get a discharge without conviction too.
The cop got the correct result. Infact he should not have been tested in the first place.
I wonder if the rat cop who tested him has any mates left?

[unhingedlizard]

I actually know this guy and am and always have been behind him 100%.

[RT527]

Well seems there is an out for anybody that deems it necessary to break the law, and it was on Talkback today.
Thing is I cant remember what it was that they said.
Seems that if you have a legitimate reason and a smart lawyer, you will get off...Something to do about nescesity(maybe a lawyer could elaborate more).
All i can say is verdict was what I was hoping for.
However I have said and will state again if i as a firefighter get caught speeding/driving drunk/ to the Firestation for a call out , there is no hope for me , put simply Im fucked both ways cause the police will charge me and to top it off I would be kicked out of the Fire service.

[willy_01]

I actually know this guy and am and always have been behind him 100%.



I actually know the lady that was killed thru this mans actions, so we are even (not quite sure what your point is sorry). I’m sure he IS a good guy, but we (the public) get it drummed into us via road safety ad's/campaigns that one bad decision can cost a life, hence the 'no tolerance' enforcement of the law. I take issue more with what happened before the accident but there are conflicting stories and it is very hard to prove, so fair enough only going after a drink driving conviction. However to let the cop off after the constant bombardment we receive from the police and government by being punished ‘to the letter of the law’ is nuts. I have never had any issues with the police, I admire the job they do and I am not one to call them 'pigs'. But through this ordeal I have lost a massive amount of trust, both in the police and the 'justice' system.

[Lou Girardin]

It would be so comforting of life was black and white, like the TV ads say.

[Skyryder]

I can at times be a bit flippant on here but this thread left me more than a little concerned.

There is no question in my mind that the cop made the humane decision. He took a punt knowing that if he had an accident on the way to deliver the oxygen bottle there was no way in hell that he would be let off. I think under the circumstances most of us would have made the same decision. But here is my dilemma. The officer was driving under the influence and over the limit. On this there is no doubt. So in an emergency it is 'lawfull' to drive when drunk. That is how I have interpereted the Judges decision. This is not has Winja says a corruption but it does pose serious ramifications. I strongly suspect that this decision has more to do with the public perception of right and wrong......... than law. That is a worry. It would be a further worry if this decision was not appealed.

Someone made a comment about flying pissed in an emergency, not too sure who it was, and again this was rebutted as the two comparisons are in no way related. My words on this but that was gist of the exchange.

I see no difference between the two. Both vehicle and aircraft have standards of safety for operational purposes. If the operator is unfit to drive or fly that' the law. No ifs and buts on this.

The correct decision in my veiw would have been a guilty verdict and discharged.

Skyryder

[Winston001]

So in an emergency it is 'lawfull' to drive when drunk. That is how I have interpreted the Judges decision.

The correct decision in my view would have been a guilty verdict and discharged.

Skyryder

Good post Skyryder - but No.

The constable was guilty at law. He pleaded guilty. No argument.

The Judge then moves to the penalty phase of sentencing. At that point he can consider any order within his jurisdiction. The significance of sentencing is that this is when a Judge can consider the circumstances of the offence and of the offender.

If those circumstances are sufficently compelling then the Judge can order a discharge without conviction. In essence the law allows mercy in sentencing. Just because you have broken the law doesn't always mean a conviction. Discharges without conviction are unusual but there is probably at least one a day in NZ.

[Winston001]

Well the verdict certainly sets an interesting legal precedent. How may others use this to their advantage?

Not a significant precedent. I recall a woman charged with driving while disqualified - serious offense. However her reason was that she was taking a child's body to the airport to be flown back to Samoa for burial. There weren't any drivers in the distraught family so she did what she thought was the right thing.

The Judge quietly agreed and discharged her.

[scumdog]

THE LAW IS THE LAW AND THE PIGS CLEARLY THINK THEIR ABOVE THE LAW , DRUNK DRIVING COP GETS OFF , SPEEDING MOTORCADE COPS GET OFF ITS BULLSHIT , WHEN IM DOING 115 KMH DOWN HILL ON A CLEAR DAY IN DRY CONDITIONS THAT ALSO MAYBE SEEN AS A UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE SO SURELY I SHOULD GET OFF THAT TICKET , ITS BULLSHIT ONE LAW FOR ALL THAT PIG SHOULD LOSE HIS LICENCE AND GET PD, THIS CUNTRYS LEGAL SYSTEM IS FUCKEN CORUPT , THE PIGS ARE CORUPT AND THE POLITICIANS ARE LIARS AND OF COURSE CORUPT AS WELL

Oh, sorry, so it was the PIGS that made the decision to let off the cop that pleade GUILTY to drunk driving, shit, dunno how I never noticed that myself.:whistle:

Nice troll.

[Ixion]

Not a significant precedent. I recall a woman charged with driving while disqualified - serious offense. However her reason was that she was taking a child's body to the airport to be flown back to Samoa for burial. There weren't any drivers in the distraught family so she did what she thought was the right thing.

The Judge quietly agreed and discharged her.

I don't think precedent can be invoked (not directly at any rate) as to a judges decision to discharge without conviction. It is part of the sentencing, not part of the law, the most that precedent could do would be to support an appeal that a sentence was unduely harsh. But IANAL and I may be quite wrong

[Winston001]

It is a precedent in the sense, as you rightly say, that it could be pointed to in another case if a harsh penalty was imposed. All decisions of the Courts create precedent, but only some are binding. You can pretty much ignore the District Court because it is the lowest level.

[spudchucka]

guttered, poor Richard will be upset to think his beloved wife's death has made a hero out of an intoxicated cop that let his 'drunker' mate drive, and kill an innocent motorist, especially when neither of them drunk at all!
For the record I think this decision sucks.:angry:

Facts! They are something that is seldom represented in threads like these and your post is a classic example.

Your feelings for this cop aside, nobody has said he's a hero. He pleaded guilty to drink driving and the Judge discharged him without conviction. The Judge based his decision on the facts that were presented in court.

One of the facts presented was that the cop had been drinking with the deceased driver. Another was that the deceased driver left the cops house without the cops knowledge. Not really a situation in which you can say that the cop "let his 'drunker' mate drive, and kill an innocent motorist".

Facts have fuck all to do with 99% of what gets posted on this web site.

[spudchucka]

C'mon now, compare apples with apples. If you lived in the wops and there was absolutely no alternative to driving slightly over the limit in order to save a life, you would more than likely get a discharge without conviction too.
The cop got the correct result. Infact he should not have been tested in the first place.
I wonder if the rat cop who tested him has any mates left?

Can't say this has ever happened to me before but......


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Lou Girardin again

[Patrick]

Just to recap...

He pleaded guilty... he did not find a loophole to get away with it, he admitted "breaking the law." He is not above the law as some seem to think...he pleaded guilty.

The judge made his decision on "sentencing" as to the "facts".... in short, they are:

1. He is the only cop in the area.
2. He is the holder of an "Advanced First Aid" certificate and has the only oxygen bottles on board for at least 15 minutes. There is no ambulance first response or even community nurse in Mokau any more.
3. He probably helped to save the life of the innocent passenger.
4. The offending driver was not let to drive by the cop - he snuck off.
5. The alarms went off... getting a lift with someone was a possibility, but when the shit hits the fan in these remote areas, there is no time to fart around or ring around. YOU GO, NOW!!!

There are probably others, but that'll do for now.

He doesn't do it for free. He is paid allowances to be "on call" and at a sole charge station, but he also has a pulse and a life...

Forget the what ifs and maybes. This was a different and very unique situation.

Cops get done for drink driving and lose their jobs all the time. We even get speeding tickets:whocares:

It was a tragic situation with two people getting killed (one an innocent at the wrong place at the wrong moment and my full sympathies to thier family, the other a recidivist drunk driver...:shutup: ) but at least one life was able to be helped by his rapid response with the necessary gear.

It will be interesting to see where to from here though. Internal discipline still to come, but in light of the judges comments which will be hard to ignore, who knows.

Lessons learned on his part... shame the drunk recidivist didn't learn any from his previous apprehensions...

Just who was the bad guy in all of this again?????

[Skyryder]

You can have shandy finn.

He'd still fall over.

Skyryder

[willy_01]

It was a tragic situation with two people getting killed (one an innocent at the wrong place at the wrong moment and my full sympathies to thier family, the other a recidivist drunk driver...:shutup: ) but at least one life was able to be helped by his rapid response with the necessary gear.

Lessons learned on his part... shame the drunk recidivist didn't learn any from his previous apprehensions...


Fair call

spudchucka
Facts! They are something that is seldom represented in threads like these and your post is a classic example....

I understand what your saying mate, but the fact is if he had watched his mate that has had issues with alcohol in the past (i can only assume his friends knew about his convictions) surely this could have been avoided? And yes it is a 'what if' comment, I see your point of view, but personally it seems it could have all been so easily avoided with a bit of proactive police work, heck not even that just a mate looking out for a mate would have sorted it.
I see you’re a cop yourself spudchucka I don’t want you to feel like im taking a dig at what you guys do, in fact I respect it :yes: but something needs to change surely? 2 people did die.

[Lou Girardin]

Fair call

spudchucka
Facts! They are something that is seldom represented in threads like these and your post is a classic example....

I understand what your saying mate, but the fact is if he had watched his mate that has had issues with alcohol in the past (i can only assume his friends knew about his convictions) surely this could have been avoided?.

This is starting to sound like an LTNZ ad, "mates don't let mates drink and drive".
It's only an advert, not reality.
The fact is that people cannot protect other people from themselves. despite what the Labour party would have you believe. This is one clear case where personal responsibilty takes priority.
BTW. The cop saved a life, don't forget that amongst the dogma.

[spudchucka]

Fair call

spudchucka
Facts! They are something that is seldom represented in threads like these and your post is a classic example....

I understand what your saying mate, but the fact is if he had watched his mate that has had issues with alcohol in the past (i can only assume his friends knew about his convictions) surely this could have been avoided? And yes it is a 'what if' comment, I see your point of view, but personally it seems it could have all been so easily avoided with a bit of proactive police work, heck not even that just a mate looking out for a mate would have sorted it.
I see you’re a cop yourself spudchucka I don’t want you to feel like im taking a dig at what you guys do, in fact I respect it :yes: but something needs to change surely? 2 people did die.The cop would have known about the guys previous form for drink driving, I'm sure of that, and I'd happily say that it is a sign of poor judgement that he is associating with someone like that. However the recidivist died, and killed another, directly as a result of his own actions, nobody else put him in the car.

I agree that something needs to change and its the attitude to boozing that exists in this country. I like a drink and occassionally I get drunk but I never drink and drive and I never come home and lay into the Mrs or kids. If people could drink responsibly then about 60% of the day to day shit the police have to deal with now wouldn't exist, (as a social problem requiring police attention).

[Lou Girardin]

but I never drink and drive and I never come home and lay into the Mrs .

Me neither, but sometimes I lay ON her.

[98tls]

C'mon now, compare apples with apples. If you lived in the wops and there was absolutely no alternative to driving slightly over the limit in order to save a life, you would more than likely get a discharge without conviction too.
The cop got the correct result. Infact he should not have been tested in the first place.
I wonder if the rat cop who tested him has any mates left?
i agree the cop got the best result and i hope any further inquiry goes well for him but......if he wasnt breath tested and a member of the public or whatever found out that he had been drinking then out would come all the snivelling whining basterds saying the cops looked after there own....rock and a hard place i reckon...hope it all works out for both of them...

[Patrick]

......if he wasnt breath tested and a member of the public or whatever found out that he had been drinking then out would come all the snivelling whining basterds saying the cops looked after there own....rock and a hard place i reckon...hope it all works out for both of them...

THAT is EXACTLY what did happen... and if the cop who breath tested him didn't test him, then his arse was grass...

[Blind spot]

Going to drive to a 50th birthday party tomorrow night.
Will the testing officer turn up 20 mins after the start and book us all for being over the limit on the way to the party.

[unhingedlizard]

I actually know the lady that was killed thru this mans actions, so we are even (not quite sure what your point is sorry). I’m sure he IS a good guy, but we (the public) get it drummed into us via road safety ad's/campaigns that one bad decision can cost a life, hence the 'no tolerance' enforcement of the law. I take issue more with what happened before the accident but there are conflicting stories and it is very hard to prove, so fair enough only going after a drink driving conviction. However to let the cop off after the constant bombardment we receive from the police and government by being punished ‘to the letter of the law’ is nuts. I have never had any issues with the police, I admire the job they do and I am not one to call them 'pigs'. But through this ordeal I have lost a massive amount of trust, both in the police and the 'justice' system.

I seem to have missed some posts here. I was refering to Jonathon Erwood from Mokau, Not to the maramarau incident.

Or are you refering to what i am?

[scumdog]

If people could drink responsibly then about 60% of the day to day shit the police have to deal with now wouldn't exist, (as a social problem requiring police attention).

You said a mouthful there, should need a licence to drink piss, most we deal with would fail, even if it was only a three question multi-choice 'scratchy' test.:yes:

[RT527]

You said a mouthful there, should need a licence to drink piss, most we deal with would fail, even if it was only a three question multi-choice 'scratchy' test.:yes:

....Um ,so tell me ....whats a scratchy test? and how many is three questions?.....oh and what does fail mean?:third: :sherlock:

[candor]

So if any of us were in the cops shoes where to from here. Would you stick it out or go for a transfer? Wonder how the top brass would view the situation.

[Lou Girardin]

We work for free all the time buddy, i average 15 hours unpaid overtime on a good week. Wouldnt do anything else though. You cant safely say something that aint correct!



Well, you guys are mugs then. Get some decent representation. Try the Distribution Workers Union, because the Police Assoc sure aren't doing much for you.

[scumdog]

Well, you guys are mugs then. Get some decent representation. Try the Distribution Workers Union, because the Police Assoc sure aren't doing much for you.

You're just saying that because you want to see us standing around doing nothing but wave placards instead of dishing out ticket!:blah: :bleh: :nya:

[NUTBAR]

hey guys,
not to be rude but i think somepeople have missed the point of why the officer was at the accedent in the first place. he was trying to save sombodys life. if that was me in that crash i would b giving that cop a medel.
he risked his career & his own reputation to try & save sombodys life!:done:

[WINJA]

hey guys,
not to be rude but i think somepeople have missed the point of why the officer was at the accedent in the first place. he was trying to save sombodys life. if that was me in that crash i would b giving that cop a medel.
he risked his career & his own reputation to try & save sombodys life!:done:

WHAT CAUSED THE ACCIDENT HE ATTENDED IN THE FIRST PLACE?

[The_Dover]

We work for free all the time buddy, i average 15 hours unpaid overtime on a good week. Wouldnt do anything else though. You cant safely say something that aint correct!

They would of paged him or called him as he is the nearest police officer to the scene and one man station cars have more life saving equipment than I cars.

So I'm guessing that your contracted hours are about 10 a week then, judging by the amount of time you are on here??

Or are you wasting taxpayers money using the piggie PC from the pen? If the KB cops were as overworked as they say then somehow I doubt their voices would be as loud on here.

[NUTBAR]

WHAT CAUSED THE ACCIDENT HE ATTENDED IN THE FIRST PLACE?

:doh: i dont somehow think it was him.

[Lou Girardin]

You're just saying that because you want to see us standing around doing nothing but wave placards instead of dishing out ticket!:blah: :bleh: :nya:
You know me so well.

[Lou Girardin]

WHAT CAUSED THE ACCIDENT HE ATTENDED IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Not him.
Will you take responsibility for the next person who bins on a ride with you?

[RT527]

We work for free all the time buddy, i average 15 hours unpaid overtime on a good week. Wouldnt do anything else though. You cant safely say something that aint correct!

They would of paged him or called him as he is the nearest police officer to the scene and one man station cars have more life saving equipment than I cars.

Right there is a problem.....and it comes down to police managment not complieing with OSH issues and the safety of officers out there, and I would say that this is a big big problem, like to thank all those officers who work for free good on yas.
Any ways I believe he did do this act to save a life and good on him its something I probably wouldnt do if i was drunk .( i have a wife and kids to support and I cant do this whilest being either off work due to injuries sustained or being inside for killing someone on the way).
I dont/ wont let anyone leave my place if they been drinking, I will hold on to peoples keys if they are drinking at my place.
then they cant sneak off.
One thing to remember is this Officer Pleaded Guilty and didnt try to get off on an obscure law :dodge: :rockon:
Ok I was wrong ...forgot you guys are paid a salary and anything after hours isn`t paid.
Wish everyone all the best ( even winja ) and stat safe/be careful.
Cheers
RT527.

[RT527]

Oh yeah and there is something wrong if the Local Fire Brigade Havn`t identified the need for comprhensive First aid kits to be carried on there truck we have One in each appliance with oxygen , even tho we have 2 ambulances at Ngatea.....we often arrive first so it was considered necessary to carry.
We also have 3-4 ambulance officers in the brigade, but all of us have enough experiance to do our best to sustain life if it can be sustained.

[willy_01]

Dynamytus50
Throughout the "ordeal"?? Dude he got charged and we only just found out he got off having a conviction even though he plead guilty. I dont understand how thats such a "ordeal" for you?

I'd be happy to explain!:yes:
He was found driving over the limit thus broke the law he is paid to enforce hence my comments, in stead of being an exemplar he was let off. If's and but's aside there were exceptions made in this case. However I do whole heartedly agree this case was full of special circumstances so to a degree ‘standard rules do not apply’. But to be let off, to be considered innocent when even by his own admission he was not seems a bit flawed to me (would you not agree?). - see full circle, it was an ordeal - not mine, but its out comes have made me question the justice system.

[WINJA]

So when you have mates over for drinks who said they had organised other means of transport home, you should follow your mates around like hawks to make sure they don't change their mind and drive home?

I don't really think its fair to say its the cops fault for the accident.

THATS NOT WHAT I WAS SAYING

[WINJA]

Not him.
Will you take responsibility for the next person who bins on a ride with you?

MY POINT IS HES DRIVING DRUNK TO AN ACCIDENT THAT WAS CAUSED BY ALCOHOL IN THE FIRST PLACE , DRUNK DRIVING IS DRUNK DRIVING THE JUDGES VERDICT BLURRS THE LINES

[Patrick]

WHAT CAUSED THE ACCIDENT HE ATTENDED IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Ummm... pissed driver driving home illegally, crossed the centre line, illegally, and hit a car head on... at a guess!

Oh... hang on... it was the road designs fault!!! It was anything but his, ay???..........

[Patrick]

So I'm guessing that your contracted hours are about 10 a week then, judging by the amount of time you are on here??

Or are you wasting taxpayers money using the piggie PC from the pen? If the KB cops were as overworked as they say then somehow I doubt their voices would be as loud on here.

Nah, not allowed to... we had the porngate, and there was absolutely nothing worse than what we see on here in the funnies...that were sent to us, not from us searching and finding BTW...

[Patrick]

Oh yeah and there is something wrong if the Local Fire Brigade Havn`t identified the need for comprhensive First aid kits to be carried on there truck we have One in each appliance with oxygen , even tho we have 2 ambulances at Ngatea.....we often arrive first so it was considered necessary to carry.
We also have 3-4 ambulance officers in the brigade, but all of us have enough experiance to do our best to sustain life if it can be sustained.

I have heard that because the volunteer fireys don't get enough calls in Mokau, they are not sanctioned/supported by the fire service... this could be wrong, but, makes some sense on why things are like they are. They have to pay for their own gear?

[WINJA]

Thats true though i guess it comes down to the fact he was driving to the scene of an accident to supply life saving equipment, not trying to get home from the pub.

Was his driving safe? I dont know and i wasnt there. Hard call to make, he did plead guilty to drink driving however he chose to drive out of unselfish and legitamite reasons in an illegitamite situation.

I guess the judge took that into account especially as a drink driving conviction means instant dismissal from the Police and he didnt feel the Constable's crime fitted that punishment. He still may be fired in anycase though.

HE SHOULD BE FIRED , HE SHOULD BE FINED AND HE SHOULD LOSE HIS LICENCE , THE GUY B4 ME IN COURT A WHILE AGO WAS DRIVING FOR A GENUINE EMERGENCY AFTER BEING DISQUALIFIED IT WAS A GENUINE CASE OF LIFE AND DEATH AND HE GOT THE BOOK THROWN AT HIM AND HE WASNT EVEN DRUNK , DRUNK DRIVERS ARE THE SCUM OF THE EARTH AND EVEN PEOPLE LIKE ME CAN BACK THE COPS ON THEIR DRACONIAN MEASURES TO GET RID OF THEM , LETTING THE PIG OFF IS A PISS TAKE AND SETS A VERY BAD EXAMPLE , EVERY DEFENCE LAWYER WILL TAKE NOTE AND IT WILL BE A NEW ANGLE TO USE A IN COURT

[Patrick]

MY POINT IS HES DRIVING DRUNK TO AN ACCIDENT THAT WAS CAUSED BY ALCOHOL IN THE FIRST PLACE , DRUNK DRIVING IS DRUNK DRIVING THE JUDGES VERDICT BLURRS THE LINES

Fair call Winja... but I bet the dead guys level was much much higher...

[WINJA]

Fair call Winja... but I bet the dead guys level was much much higher...

BUT HE WAS OVER THE LIMIT , A CLEARLY LAID OUT LIMIT LAID DOWN BY LTSA AND BACKED BY ACC THE POLICE AND EVEN BACKED BY TARDS LIKE ME ,DRUNK IS DRUNK THE LAW IS THE LAW AMONG MOST OF THE GUYS I KNOW IF YOU TALK ABOUT SOMEONE SPEEDING THEY SAY FUCK THE PIGS THEY ARE CUNTS ETC ETC , BUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT SOMEONE BEING CAUGHT OVER THE DRINK DRIVE LIMIT THE PIGS ARE EVERYONES MATE INCLUDING MINE , IT SORTA DILUTES THE REALLY GOOD WORK THE PIGS HAVE DONE TOWARDS DRUNK DRIVING BY LETTING A PIG OFF DRUNK DRIVING, SOMETIMES A PENALTY HANDED DOWN IS NOT JUST FOR THE OFFENDER BUT THE GREATER GOOD OF THE COMUNITY

[Lou Girardin]

Jeez, you guys are either really thick or you live in some parallel universe. Judges can exercise discretion when there are special circumstances. Which this case had in spades.
I've heard plenty of pleas for special circumstances in court, and they invariably fail to show that there were no alternative options.
Winja, did your disq guy have any possible alternative to driving? Like calling an ambulance perhaps? Or was it a case of driving to get smokes for his missus or else she'd kill him?

[RT527]

I have heard that because the volunteer fireys don't get enough calls in Mokau, they are not sanctioned/supported by the fire service... this could be wrong, but, makes some sense on why things are like they are. They have to pay for their own gear?

Then they would be Rural fire and council funds them,with the help of donations and local funding. if they not rural fire then Nzfs funds them, anyways it would be the locals who support them there and I dont think anyone would not support funding for life saving oxygen cylinders.
Seems there was a justification for spending then wasnt there?!!!.

[Ixion]

What if the cop had NOT gone out? If they'd called him "Bad accident. Oxygen needed. You're the only one near". And he'd said "Nah, can't do it". And the press got hold of that. "Accident victim refused live saving oxygen because off duty cop didn't want to drive out" ?.

And bear in mind that there is NO evidence of any fault in his driving or behaviour. The offence was a technical one, a breach of an arbitrary limit. Noone has come forward to say "Yeah, I saw him weaving all over the road: or any such.

It's not any sort of precedent. The guy pleaded guilty, threw himself on the mercy of the court. Only a precedent if someone can show the same circumstances. How often is that going to happen? Once a century maybe.

And if someone who wasn't a cop did the same sort of thing, I'd expect the cops not even to press charges. If they did I'd join the clamour about officious pedentry and lack of discretion. The very reason he DIDN'T get let off, had to plead guilty was because he was a cop.

Laws are made for the benefit of men, not to be a cross upon which to crucify them. In this case justice and the law joined hands. The judge made the right call.

[WINJA]

Jeez, you guys are either really thick or you live in some parallel universe. Judges can exercise discretion when there are special circumstances. Which this case had in spades.
I've heard plenty of pleas for special circumstances in court, and they invariably fail to show that there were no alternative options.
Winja, did your disq guy have any possible alternative to driving? Like calling an ambulance perhaps? Or was it a case of driving to get smokes for his missus or else she'd kill him?

TAKING HIS VERY SICK WIFE TO HOSPITAL , SHE WAS PREGNANT AS WELL , HE TURNED RIGHT ONTO GRAFTON BRIDGE AND GOT CAUGHT

[Patrick]

BUT HE WAS OVER THE LIMIT , A CLEARLY LAID OUT LIMIT LAID DOWN BY LTSA AND BACKED BY ACC THE POLICE AND EVEN BACKED BY TARDS LIKE ME ,DRUNK IS DRUNK THE LAW IS THE LAW AMONG MOST OF THE GUYS I KNOW IF YOU TALK ABOUT SOMEONE SPEEDING THEY SAY FUCK THE PIGS THEY ARE CUNTS ETC ETC , BUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT SOMEONE BEING CAUGHT OVER THE DRINK DRIVE LIMIT THE PIGS ARE EVERYONES MATE INCLUDING MINE , IT SORTA DILUTES THE REALLY GOOD WORK THE PIGS HAVE DONE TOWARDS DRUNK DRIVING BY LETTING A PIG OFF DRUNK DRIVING, SOMETIMES A PENALTY HANDED DOWN IS NOT JUST FOR THE OFFENDER BUT THE GREATER GOOD OF THE COMUNITY


TAKING HIS VERY SICK WIFE TO HOSPITAL , SHE WAS PREGNANT AS WELL , HE TURNED RIGHT ONTO GRAFTON BRIDGE AND GOT CAUGHT

In Auckland??? Plenty of Doctors, 24 hour medical centres, even hospitals, taxis, neighbours, plenty of everything in the big smoke, don't ya think??? Options available there, I would say.... Somewhat different in Mokau. And he saved a life...

[WINJA]

In Auckland??? Plenty of Doctors, 24 hour medical centres, even hospitals, taxis, neighbours, plenty of everything in the big smoke, don't ya think??? Options available there, I would say.... Somewhat different in Mokau. And he saved a life...

BUT IT STILL SENDS THE WRONG MESSAGE LETTING HIM OFF DONT IT , I THINK ITS FAR WORSE TO DRIVE DRUNK TO SAVE A LIFE THAN TO DRIVE DISQUALIFIED TO SAVE A LIFE, IF YOUVE BEEN IN AN EMERGENCY OR 2 YOUD KNOW 2 THINGS NOT ALL PEOPLE THINK STRAIGHT IN EMERGENCYS AND AN AMBULANCE IS NOT ALWAYS THE FASTEST WAY TO GET MEDICAL ATTENTION , THEREFORE I THINK THE GUY IN FRONT OF ME IN COURT SHOULDA GOT OFF, THE PIG HAD OPTIONS TOO

[Lou Girardin]

TAKING HIS VERY SICK WIFE TO HOSPITAL , SHE WAS PREGNANT AS WELL , HE TURNED RIGHT ONTO GRAFTON BRIDGE AND GOT CAUGHT

Is it at all possible that he presented a greater risk to her by driving in a stressful situation, rather than calling an ambulance?

See what I mean - there were alternatives.

[scumdog]

BUT IT STILL SENDS THE WRONG MESSAGE LETTING HIM OFF DONT IT , I THINK ITS FAR WORSE TO DRIVE DRUNK TO SAVE A LIFE THAN TO DRIVE DISQUALIFIED TO SAVE A LIFE, IF YOUVE BEEN IN AN EMERGENCY OR 2 YOUD KNOW 2 THINGS NOT ALL PEOPLE THINK STRAIGHT IN EMERGENCYS AND AN AMBULANCE IS NOT ALWAYS THE FASTEST WAY TO GET MEDICAL ATTENTION , THEREFORE I THINK THE GUY IN FRONT OF ME IN COURT SHOULDA GOT OFF, THE PIG HAD OPTIONS TOO

Well go ahead and drink and drive, get caught and plead special circumstances, let us know how you faired so we can all have a laugh!!~!

So it was alright for your drongo mate not to think straight - but not for a cop to do likewise??
Hmm, smacks of one rule for some, another rule for others.....:innocent:

And who cares what YOU think, it's what the judge thinks.:yes:

Have a nice day.

[WINJA]

Is it at all possible that he presented a greater risk to her by driving in a stressful situation, rather than calling an ambulance?

See what I mean - there were alternatives.

NOPE , THATS JUST STUPID

[WINJA]

Well go ahead and drink and drive, get caught and plead special circumstances, let us know how you faired so we can all have a laugh!!~!

So it was alright for your drongo mate not to think straight - but not for a cop to do likewise??
Hmm, smacks of one rule for some, another rule for others.....:innocent:

And who cares what YOU think, it's what the judge thinks.:yes:

Have a nice day.

YOUR A PIG , AND FROM WHAT I HEARD A BIT OF A DRUNK SO I WONDER WHO YOUR SIDE WITH

[Patrick]

BUT IT STILL SENDS THE WRONG MESSAGE LETTING HIM OFF DONT IT , I THINK ITS FAR WORSE TO DRIVE DRUNK TO SAVE A LIFE THAN TO DRIVE DISQUALIFIED TO SAVE A LIFE, IF YOUVE BEEN IN AN EMERGENCY OR 2 YOUD KNOW 2 THINGS NOT ALL PEOPLE THINK STRAIGHT IN EMERGENCYS AND AN AMBULANCE IS NOT ALWAYS THE FASTEST WAY TO GET MEDICAL ATTENTION , THEREFORE I THINK THE GUY IN FRONT OF ME IN COURT SHOULDA GOT OFF, THE PIG HAD OPTIONS TOO

Take it up with the judge... wasn't this cops fault.

I know of and have seen others getting off DWD for that explanation that was backed up by medical evidence. Life and Death situation or drama queen? Perhaps just a story made up without anything to back it up with?

[scumdog]

YOUR A PIG , AND FROM WHAT I HEARD A BIT OF A DRUNK SO I WONDER WHO YOUR SIDE WITH

Not on the side of the 'raving advocate for the brainless rabble', that's for sure!!

BTW I don't 'side' with anyone in particular.

Oh, and you heard wrong, I'm not "A BIT OF A DRUNK" - I'm a ferkin' pisshead sunshine!!:beer: :drinknsin

[Lou Girardin]

NOPE , THATS JUST STUPID

You've got me there. I'm stumped for an answer.