PDA

View Full Version : Moving to the UK



texmo
7th August 2006, 16:44
for someone seriously toying with the idea of moving to england whats some good internet forums anyone know?

edit: bikey forums..

Blackbird
7th August 2006, 17:53
Visordown (www.visordown.com) is the biggest general one if you can be arsed to wade through it. Heaps of bike specific ones.

tomthepohm
7th August 2006, 22:56
Your moving to the UK whaahahah hahaha hahaha hahahahhhhaaaa.
Sucks for you....
lol

Edbear
8th August 2006, 06:57
for someone seriously toying with the idea of moving to england ..


Ahh! Why...?:gob:

Fat Tony
8th August 2006, 08:09
Christ I can't wait to get away from the place, lol.

Yeah http://www.visordown.com is a popular one, though I haven't spent much time on there to be honest so don't know what it's like. There's also http://www.noddingdogs.org.uk/ which I used to spend loads of time on, but haven't been on there for about a year or so now.

I read on another thread that you were looking at the 750k6? A very wise choice if I do say so myself ;) (though the clutch has just died on mine, grrrrrrr). If you want to chat to gixer enthusiasts, there's a couple of forums:

www.gixercrew.co.uk (a fairly small group of regular posters and a really good bunch of lads. Used to be a good mix of road and track riders, but most of the regulars now seem to be track biased - though there's a few of us still on the road... As I said, a top bunch of lads who know their stuff and who'll be happy to help out with advise etc)

A mate of mine also set up www.gixerjunkies.net a while ago, and that's taken off big time. Loads of banter about bikes and allsorts. Seem like a good bunch.

If you want any further info or just general chat about the move, if I can help etc, just let me know and I'll see if I can do so.

Gotta ask you though... why the move?

gixermike
8th August 2006, 08:36
so that'll be a couple of ex gixercrew riders there then.

would that be Tony of the continuosly changing log in names....


mike (aka trimixccr on gixercrew)

Fat Tony
8th August 2006, 08:39
would that be Tony of the continuosly changing log in names....

Haha, it might be Mike ;)

Yours sincerely,
Veronica, lol

(about time I changed again really I think - must be a couple of months now)

The_Dover
8th August 2006, 09:30
I wouldn't bother if I was you Texmo.

With your age, riding and insurance history you wont even get third party for one of your poofy little scooters.

And insurance is compulsary in the motherland.

Blackbird
8th August 2006, 09:37
Ahh! Why...?:gob:


Well, doing a bit of OE is standard stuff for young Kiwis so I hope it's this and not a planned permanent move. If you live modestly over there and are in the right job, you can save a lot of money to bring back. One of our sons earns over GBP50,000 p.a which is seriously good money.

Flyingpony
8th August 2006, 11:23
If you live modestly over there and are in the right job, you can save a lot of money to bring back. One of our sons earns over GBP50,000 p.a which is seriously good money.
A brit who moved here told me that living in the UK and earning GBP50k is equivalent to living in NZ and earning 50k. It might sound like you're earning heaps of money because of the exchange rate, but you're actually not compared to the cost of living in the respective country.

I've looked at a couple online UK job sites but they all offer low pay of GBP25-35k so England isn't a country on my to work list, one can earn $40k here picking in apple orchards. Not only that, I think the work visa is only valid for a year or two and can't be extended and you can't get another one. In that case, why even bother because there's no point in moving house & country is one can't even stay working at least 5 years or more.

The_Dover
8th August 2006, 11:32
That fool told you wrong then FP.

The cost of living being high in the UK is a myth. The cost of motoring is a bit higher due to insurance and fuel costs.

Then again he may have been from London but kiwis should wake up to the fact that there is life outside London, just like living outside of Auckland is cheaper.

If I was on 50k in the UK I'd be living pretty fucking well, NZ is third world in comparison.

Karma
8th August 2006, 11:44
If I was on 50k in the UK I'd be living pretty fucking well, NZ is third world in comparison.

True enough.

I've lived in a few places, was up in Derby for a couple of years, but grew up in the westcountry, so cheap as for living expenses.

My reasons for coming to NZ were not financial, but political... judge Helen Clarke as you may, she is nowhere near Tony Blair and Labours nanny state mentality.

texmo
8th August 2006, 17:52
Thanks for all the fourms people. I lived in the uk when I was 3 for 6months and thats all the experiance I have there. But I have a fair amount of family there that I can stay with, either that or italy when more relations lie.

MattRSK
8th August 2006, 17:57
Im going to aus first, then europe. When im qualified.

tomthepohm
8th August 2006, 21:00
Dover is right bro, insurance is a stinger, there is no way you will be able to get on anything above a 600. No way. Even then it will cost you a minimum 1000 pounds a year to ins.

Go to Carol Nash web site and find out how much it will cost ya dude. You might get a big shock...

As for the 8 months of wet salted roads, ice snow cold and no day light its the perdect place to ride a bike.

Whahah ahahaha ahahahaha hhaha aa

MattRSK
8th August 2006, 21:05
What a bunch of wet blankets! Its your life texmo. Go exploring find out for yourself. Dont turn out like these sad old fuckers!

tomthepohm
8th August 2006, 21:15
Says the 19 year old.... Yea sure you have had loads of life experiance mate...

texmo
8th August 2006, 21:29
Not going there to bike and I wont go for that long only about a year. I have no real intrest in getting a bike over there I would prefer a lambretta, maby find an old li150 with electronic ignition and when I leave bring it back with me.

bugjuice
8th August 2006, 21:32
Your moving to the UK whaahahah hahaha hahaha hahahahhhhaaaa.
Sucks for you....
lol
+1

MattRSK
8th August 2006, 21:40
Says the 19 year old.... Yea sure you have had loads of life experiance mate...
Yeah but I plan on it mate, and I wouldnt discourage anyone from doing their own thing either!

tomthepohm
8th August 2006, 21:52
I am not trying to put him off going there and traveling, i think thats great, just giving hime the heads up on the grizzly facts..

PS stay away from the northern women Texmo, they all crazy and will probably beat the shit out of you...

Whahaha ahahah hahahaha

texmo
8th August 2006, 22:03
Yeah I know vixxter was an eye opener. Will never forget cowpoos throwing her in the back of the cop car and her flashing them her tits while the van that just left said watch out for the blonde in the green top hahahaha

moko
9th August 2006, 13:07
Not going there to bike and I wont go for that long only about a year. I have no real intrest in getting a bike over there I would prefer a lambretta, maby find an old li150 with electronic ignition and when I leave bring it back with me.

If you can stay with relatives mate you`ve cracked it,biggest expense here is accommodation and running it.You can use your N.Z. licence here for a year,which will do you,and insurance for an old Lambretta wont be a lot,Carole Nash do cheap "classic insurance",just lie like everyone else when they ask where it`s kept and if you belong to the owners club,it`s in a garage(it is now)and the internet should sort you with details of any owner`s clubs.Old scooter scene is pretty big here,still loads on the road,often see a few at the local Sunday afternoon bike hang-out in Plymouth.So if you do pick up a scoot and want to have fun on it you`ll find mates fairly easily.Transport here`s pretty steep as well so running a vehicle might well be cheaper than using trains and buses.
I`d say see the sights then get out of London quick,place is a shit-hole full of psychopaths and thieves,a foreign accent will have you charged more by street traders e.t.c. without you even realising.Plenty more to Britain than London,hell of a job convincing many visitors though.You`ll pick up casual work quite easily if you use the job agencies,loads of foreigners use them and you`ll get to meet some good people.If you need any advice just drop me a pm anytime,bit of local knowledge can often save a lot of messing around.

chris
9th August 2006, 15:00
The cost of living being high in the UK is a mythNot really, it's definitely true of certain places. Pay for bottle of Stella in a pub and then decide.



If I was on 50k in the UK I'd be living pretty fucking wellIf you didn't have a wife and three kids to support, two cars to run and a very large mortgage.


If you're going to the UK, don't live in London, try Glasgow, Manchester or even Edinburgh.

tomthepohm
9th August 2006, 15:05
No take no notice of Dover, they are all the low life citys, go live in Bristol or Bath mate, you wont get beet up ever night there, just on sundays...

sAsLEX
9th August 2006, 15:25
Kinda like Texmo I am moving to the UK next year, but only for 8 months for a course in Portsmouth.


Now I was just going to buy a push bike for getting round myself with a car for the weekends and the handbrake during the week. But was thinking of getting a powered cycle instead now, my insurance will be the same as it is here in NZ as it will be subsidised *sp* over there ((before you say its too expensive Dover)).

And the actual question: Would it be worth getting a bike over there with the intention of returning with it? I mean do you get stung with GST on the docks here, re vinning etc compared to the costs of buying a bike over there, I get 2m^3 free sea freight coming back as well (good boss you see).

If I were to get a bike over there with the intention of bringing it back I would be looking at a newish/new bike, but if the extra costs are too much then I will flag it and maybe just get another NC30 over there.

EDIT: and how come this ended up here instead of a new thread mods??????

The_Dover
9th August 2006, 15:34
Not really, it's definitely true of certain places. Pay for bottle of Stella in a pub and then decide.


If you didn't have a wife and three kids to support, two cars to run and a very large mortgage.


If you're going to the UK, don't live in London, try Glasgow, Manchester or even Edinburgh.

If you drink that poofs beer then you deserve to be taxed.

I know plenty of people that have a bitch and 3 rugrats and can manage on 50 grand in the uk.

And don't try Edinburgh, it's as expensive as fuck and totally over rated. My sister lives there and it's full of poofs (who probably drink lots of bottled stella in the pubs) and druggies that'd kill you for a fiver.

And Tom, BRISTOL??? For fucks sake man, it's the Beirut of the west cuntry. Try Exeter, much nicer.

Lou Girardin
9th August 2006, 15:38
NZ is third world in comparison.

We're trying to become third world. Then we'll have a rail service.

The_Dover
9th August 2006, 15:51
We're trying to become third world. Then we'll have a rail service.

Tell me about it.

I'm getting the train to work these days and it's always full by the second stop (my stop) and I have arrived ten minutes late for the last two days.

A journey that took 30 mins by bike is now and hour an a half.

Fucking progress eh?

McJim
9th August 2006, 16:00
Best of luck - go for it - if you can get a job at GBP30,000 then grab it.
Expect to earn GBP50,000 if you are a Lawyer or a Tax Accountant - in Britain the average house price is only about 4 tiomes average wage in New Zealand its like 7 or 8 times average wage therefore you'll find your accommodation doesn't hit your pocket like it doeas here - most companies work a 35 hour week and will give you between 4 and 5 weeks annual leave straight away.

Seriously - My wife persuaded me to move NZ coz of the great standard of living - I haven't yet found it - I get less money, my house costs more than the UK, I'm paying twice the interest on my mortgage, my commute takes the same time as it did in Hertfordshire and I work about 300 more hours per year so I've forgotten what my sons look like - I have a house which 'Has great Indoor outdoor flow' which I've discovered means it's too cold in the winter and too warm in the summer coz of all the glass doors.

P.S. I'm saying all of this with a wry smile on my face as I am actually happy here.....coz the education system is still better here (don't laugh - it's really gone down the shitter in the UK!) I believe the opportunities for my kids will be better and the weather in Auckland is, quite frankly, spectacular. I can't believe you have whole days go by without rainfall and you still complain? You don't get minus 15 degrees for a week at a time.

The point I'm trying to make here is that you can actually live well on a salary of GBP25,000 - GBP30,000 please disregard the gbp50,000 equals nzd50,000 comment - it's simply so far from the truth that it'll cause you problems.

If you are a Lawyer or a seriously specialist Accountant or Surgeon then go for the gbp50,000 salaries upwards.:yes:

McJim
9th August 2006, 16:02
Tell me about it.

I'm getting the train to work these days and it's always full by the second stop (my stop) and I have arrived ten minutes late for the last two days.

A journey that took 30 mins by bike is now and hour an a half.

Fucking progress eh?
The train I used to get into London was always already full by the time it reached my stop.

jazbug5
9th August 2006, 18:06
No take no notice of Dover, they are all the low life citys, go live in Bristol or Bath mate, you wont get beet up ever night there, just on sundays...

Funny, I would have said that about Bath until this last weekend: used to live there, went to visit mates, and got nothing but hassle in the street Saturday night. Then we turned a corner and found what was left of some guy after someone had used his head for a football. Gruesome.
Put me right off....

Bristol, however, is a fine city. Edinburgh is another one, and so is Manchester- but I would avoid London like the plague.

moko
10th August 2006, 07:42
And Tom, BRISTOL??? For fucks sake man, it's the Beirut of the west cuntry. Try Exeter, much nicer.

Better yet go for somewhere just outside,places like Newton Abbot and Totnes are fairly civilised and N.Z.-like scenery all around,when the tourists have gone home you`ll have plenty of great roads all to yourself.Most of Britain now sadly is bad news after closing time,even small towns in rural locations,might interest Dover to know that booze here is very cheap these days,most get wrecked on cans from the local minimart before heading into town and topping up with stuff at club prices and even then plenty of places do "2 for 1" or happy hour deals,drink-fuelled violence is almost epidemic.Dont let that put you off though,with a bit of common sense and local knowledge you can still have a good night out quite safely.People here are far more aggresive than in N.Z. and even a recent arrival here from Auckland was quite suprised at how obnoxious people can be for no reason despite me warning him beforehand.

ogr1
10th August 2006, 08:45
Feck the big cities, full of crims and illegal aliens, ports are no better either.
Chances are you won't meet any English people there anyhow?
Money...average wage according to the lying government figures and are probably targeted at London = £50k plus, bollocks. I earn 22k and live fairly well off that, people are on a lot less, local jobs advertised in the press average around 16k and I look every week. so I'm staying put in this job for a while.
Insurance...Depends where you go? shop around tis cheaper on the web.
Bikes are plentiful try MCN UK to give you an idea of the prices.
Weather......what can I say? SHITE.

What do our nations have in common?
Binge drinkers.
Bad car drivers.
Crap toothless law system, geared not for the working tax paying law abiding citizen, but for the lazy arse thieving scumbags that burden our society.
Over taxed.
A lazy lying money orientated labour government. (arn't they all)
Tony blurt the "prime sinister" has announced that they have no control over the current problem with illegal immigrants (Have not a clue as to the numbers) also that we as a nation are defensless to the continuing assault
via terrorists! (kinda fills ya with confidence eh!)
We are an Island nation (you guys have two) so do we if you count Northern ireland?)
Bikers are considered "risk takers" by the general public.
The weather is a hit and miss affair, more of a miss really.

Good points..............Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrm? You may get to meet some bikers and have a blast around some local haunts. Or you may stay in and watch countless BBC repeats cause it's raining feckin stair rods outside?

DON'T DO IT!
Come for a visit anytime, but emmigrate? You must be nuts!

blocker
10th August 2006, 10:47
Yeah, insurance does sting a little here, my CBR600 is 800 quid pa for Third/Fire & Theft. All my elements wrong though, living in SW London, parked on Street (can't exactly say its in a garage as no house has one on our street), used for work commuting, and on top of that I'm new to full licence and no UK licence/driving history. Funny thing was I had car insurance quotes for more again for similar value cars despite 15 years nz car driving history (didn't end up buying one of those!)

Bikes are pretty decently priced though, my 1997 Honda CBR, 22k miles, immac cond was 2k stg.

And I also can't fathom 50k pom = 50k kiwi, I'd take 50k Sterling over 50k kiwi any day... , i think the comparable standard of living income is roughly 1-2 (ie say 50k sterling = 100k Kiwi), but it depends on everyones circumstances and how big their fixed/basic costs are..

moko
10th August 2006, 13:36
Yeah, insurance does sting a little here, my CBR600 is 800 quid pa for Third/Fire & Theft.

From what you`ve said here mate that`s not actually a bad deal,I know scooter riders paying over a grand in insurance in Cornwall.
Biggest cost here is accommodation and running it,i.e. utilities and council tax,if our mate comes over here with no worries on that score he can have a good time here financed by a bit of casual work,and there`s loads of that around.When I went to N.Z. I wanted to meet ordinary kiwis,not tour guides.I had contacts there so that was easy and I met some great people.Best way to meet good people here is to work in a few places,meet some people who aren`t after your money.Do the tourist spots exclusively and you`ll meet fake people flogging a fake view of Britain,get yourself a bit of casual work in a factory and you`ll meet the real Brits,dont give a shit types who`ll treat you as a mate unless you`re a total prat and with the subversive nature and bone dry wit that`s made the British working class what it is today......extinct.Seriously,there are good people here but you have to look hard and generally the less well off people are here the more friendly and accepting they are.

Squeak the Rat
10th August 2006, 14:08
Go for it dude. Nothing worse than getting old and saying "I wish I'd done that"..... You can always come back.

jazbug5
10th August 2006, 23:59
...booze here is very cheap these days,most get wrecked on cans from the local minimart before heading into town and topping up with stuff at club prices...

..And when I got home from my lovely break in Bath, this is what I discovered waiting for me at home. (The house they mention is mine.)

Hole in the wall... (http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/city/2006/08/08/5944ee9d-2990-43bc-b356-e3985f0233d4.lpf)

Going off the whole blokes & booze thing a bit at the mo.

Dadpole
11th August 2006, 00:24
Jazbug, The solution is - come back here, burn your passport, claim to be an Algerian terrorist and live at the taxpayers expense.

Mooch
11th August 2006, 00:47
Exactly ,
Lived in London for most of the last year, cool place. Nothing like the big city. Never got bored even after a year. Cost wise it depends what kind of work your into. If your into IT Texmo then you'll be sweet. Food wise, prices are similar to NZ from the supermarket , none of this dollar for pound stuff. Eating out is more like 1 dollar = 1 pound. Rent wise , it's dealer. Eg two bedroom apartment on the Thames 350 - 400 pounds per week plus tax.
Money wise, agree with some of the positngs , I can confirm a NZ CA accountant earning closer to 80 k than 50 k .IT wise anywhere from 50 -130k is possible in the contracting market.

Have visited some of the places mentioned. All great to visit , but Londons the place to live. I really miss the place. No point in staying in smaller places, might as well stay in NZ.

mattp
11th August 2006, 06:57
I've been living and riding in London for a number of years without any little cry about the money.

I think you get to see life in big cities and if you don't have kids its a great place to play :doobey:

Another site where you can get info on riding in london is www.londonbikers.com

m99dws
15th August 2006, 09:28
VisorDown is ok if you sift through pages of huge sig pics etc. I use bikechatforums.com as a point of reference more than any other (for general stuff. For my SV I was on http://www.sv650.org/

Matt
17th August 2006, 08:22
I say go for it - nothing is forever, and planes fly back to NZ too! Would definitely recommend looking at places other than London (unless you like big cities!) - as a Northerner I would also look at places like Manchester/Leeds, there are some really nice suburbs still in reach of the CBD.

Good luck!

Matt

Finn
17th August 2006, 08:31
I think it should be compulsory for all kiwi's to have an OE. If you spend too much time on our little island, your brain stops working properly.

In saying that, a lot of kiwi's make the mistake of going to Aus or the UK for their OE. I don't think this is really an OE because the culture is much the same. Young kiwi's going to the UK end up getting pissed with fellow kiwi's and not doing much else. The UK is a very good place to base yourself but you MUST travel to european countries if you really want to open your eyes.

XP@
17th August 2006, 09:07
NZ population per square km = 15
UK population per square km = 250

You better improve your overtaking skills, cos you are going to have to do it a lot more than here.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

m99dws
18th August 2006, 05:57
I say go for it - nothing is forever, and planes fly back to NZ too! Would definitely recommend looking at places other than London (unless you like big cities!) - as a Northerner I would also look at places like Manchester/Leeds, there are some really nice suburbs still in reach of the CBD.

Good luck!

Matt


Agreed on looking outside London - it's a terrible place for biking. Now the North East however is a different story. You get coast roads, plenty of country side and the Lake District is but a twist of the throttle away.

Scotland however is a much more beautiful country than England, and has some awesome roads for riding.

Smoggie
19th August 2006, 00:59
If any of you get the chance to go to the UK, then do. Even if it is only fo ra year, it will give you the chance to just open your eyes. Alright, for the young uns', the insurance is horrendous. However, once you get off the ferry on a trip to France, and beyond, it is worth it. You also book your holidays for June, and go to the Isle of Man for the TTs, and then to Northern Ireland, fo rthe North West races.

London is the pits, so avoid if possible. Head North, to Manchester, York, even Birmingham.

Enjoy

jazbug5
19th August 2006, 01:53
London is the pits, so avoid if possible. Head North, to Manchester, York, even Birmingham.

Enjoy


I hate to be picky, but surely this is a typo?

Posh Tourer :P
19th August 2006, 20:36
NZ population per square km = 15
UK population per square km = 250

You better improve your overtaking skills, cos you are going to have to do it a lot more than here.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

Yeah and the roads are so busy coming the other way, it doesnt work anyway. Oh and everyone tailgates, so there is no room to get back in once you get out to overtake. Love it.

sAsLEX
19th August 2006, 21:13
Yeah and the roads are so busy coming the other way, it doesnt work anyway. Oh and everyone tailgates, so there is no room to get back in once you get out to overtake. Love it.

One of the latest top gears they see who can tailgate the closest in a van at 40MPH or so and Hamster wins with 14mm!

miles the 1
23rd August 2006, 19:37
I'm in the uk and can't wait to come to nz. Arriving in december. If you really want to come look at the weekly news paper, motorcycle news, they have a similar site to this one. not a bad read but a bit repetative if you buy it every week.

moko
24th August 2006, 15:54
Someone I only know from on-line recently visited here from Sweden.I told her not to bother with London apart from doing the tourist thing and leaving a.s.a.p once she`s seen the sights.Nope,London it had to be,she had a friend there she could stay with who loved it e.t.c. and surely I was being too negative.Well she came and spent 2 weeks.Said it was like being in the Alamo,no-one but no-one spoke English in the area she stayed,and she couldn`t believe the constant wailing of Police sirens day and night,the outright hostility she encountered several times a day for reasons she never could fathom(dosnt need to be a reason here,the countries full of arseholes who think being unpleasant is macho for some deluded reason)and her friend who "loved it there" admitted she was too scared to go anywhere unless it was absolutely nescessary and she`d love to leave,apparently it`s only her job keeping her there,personally I`d look for another job somewhere else.So I was proved right,I sent her several pictures of Dartmoor and the Cornwall and Devon coast-line to prove that not all of England is a decaying hell-hole sliding into the 3rd world and she`s older and wiser,also wont be going to London again...ever.

Motoracer
24th August 2006, 16:11
I fully understand where you are coming from Bro...

I didn't know it had come to this, I should have known. Wana join me in the Sauna/Steam on Sunday arvo? Be good to catch up aya!

The_Dover
24th August 2006, 16:19
Wana join me in the Sauna/Steam on Sunday arvo?

sorry guys but this along with texmo's pleas to ride pillion on the arse sex are really worrying........

texmo
24th August 2006, 16:46
Yeah man after a long ride on the back of the r6 a sauna sounds great >.<

Bytor
24th August 2006, 17:29
I hate to be picky, but surely this is a typo?

Yep it's spelt Burmungum

Fat Tony
24th August 2006, 19:47
If any of you guys end up in the Leeds/Wetherby area, give us a shout and I'll get the first beers in at the oldest Inn in England :)

(you can buy the rest ;) )

Karma
24th August 2006, 19:54
Best biking roads? Get yourself into the west country, as long as you know how to overtake tractors and can avoid holidaymakers you'll be all sweet.

Auntie Podes
5th September 2006, 21:56
for someone seriously toying with the idea of moving to england whats some good internet forums anyone know?

edit: bikey forums..

Getting back to the point of this thread................

Try http://www.bikersoracle.com. I think you'll find it rather good. :yes:

texmo
6th September 2006, 12:45
Sweet thanks for that mate. cool site btw.

popelli
14th November 2006, 18:50
If any of you guys end up in the Leeds/Wetherby area, give us a shout and I'll get the first beers in at the oldest Inn in England :)(you can buy the rest ;) )
]


You had better go to the old trip to jerusleum in Nottingham just below the castle, its the oldest pub in the England and its nowhere near Leeds

marty
14th November 2006, 20:13
i'm just back from london and manchester. 4th time up there. manchester is grey and grotty. london is london. lots happening, but a total rat race unless you're a millionaire!

york is cool. edinburgh is cool. london is cool. paris is cooler.........

XP@
14th November 2006, 22:56
]


You had better go to the old trip to jerusleum in Nottingham just below the castle, its the oldest pub in the England and its nowhere near Leeds
Inn NOT Pub!
You can stay in an Inn but not in a pub!


i'm just back from london and manchester. 4th time up there. manchester is grey and grotty. london is london. lots happening, but a total rat race unless you're a millionaire!

york is cool. edinburgh is cool. london is cool. paris is cooler.........
Paris is cool, can vouch for that :)

jrandom
15th November 2006, 00:19
Forget this 'website' nonsense, texmo. uk.rec.motorcycles is where it's at. Tell them I said hi.