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SuperDave
9th August 2006, 20:07
Right just got one simple question from those in the know.

I've purchased a couple of braided lines and the necessary bolts to replace my current stock brake lines for the front of my bike. The pamphlet that is attached to the new braided lines specifically states that it is 'absolutely necessary' to use loctite on the bolt's threads.

Now my question is simple, is this just to cover their arses or do I really need to use some loctite? If it is the latter would someone please explain why braided lines require loctite whereas my current stock rubber ones have been performed fine without it?

Thanks for the advice and yes I realise there's more than one question there.

Colapop
9th August 2006, 20:09
Oooo can I add to the above? Why braided lines? What is so special about them? Do they just look good? (not a p/t)

Scouse
9th August 2006, 20:11
Use Loctite

bobsmith
9th August 2006, 20:15
don't know about bikes... but when I skimped out on locktite the first time I assembled a RC heli... it sorta shook itself apart after a few weeks... do you want to try your luck with the brake??? if you're worried about having to take the bolt off later, use blue locktite. They shouldn't cost much (less than $10??)

SuperDave
9th August 2006, 20:17
Okay gave the instructions a closer read and I realise it was referring to where the lines meet the ringed bolt and where the O-ring is. I thought it was referring to the larger bolts that run through the ring clamping to the caliper units.

Thanks for the quick answer though zrxer.

And Colapop - I'm inclined to believe that the braided lines will further improve the braking and lever feel, I'm assuming that my lever will feel more crisp similar to how it feels after freshly bleeding my brake lines but this should now last much longer as a result of the braided lines with no expansion. I will find this out once I've fitted them I guess. Another thing to note if I'm not mistaken is that the manufacturer recommends the replacement of the stock rubber lines every couple of years as well.

SwanTiger
9th August 2006, 20:20
Oooo can I add to the above? Why braided lines? What is so special about them? Do they just look good? (not a p/t)
They are a performance modification. Usually your average brake line will expand and get worse over time and that obviously reflects on the stopping ability of the bike.

I might be slightly wrong, but that is the gist of it.

The difference between Hyosung brakes and a GSX-R brakes with braided lines is amazing. So I imagine stock lines to braided would be noticable.

James Deuce
9th August 2006, 20:24
I've never found braided lines improve feel. They improve power most definitely, as they don't expand as much as rubber lines do. A lot of people find that braided lines feel more wooden, but I think that is just because they provide you with decent braking force, right NOW, instead of the steady increase in power that standard lines do.

Braided lines improved my Z750's stopping power enormously.

Colapop
9th August 2006, 20:28
So the main degradation of braking power is the expansion of brake lines?(genearlly) I understand that pads degenerate over time and do disks (not as much), what about the other bits... Anyone got a Brake Systems 101 speak available?

SupD I assume you're ok now and I can hijack this thread? If not I'll p/o

SuperDave
9th August 2006, 20:40
So the main degradation of braking power is the expansion of brake lines?(genearlly) I understand that pads degenerate over time and do disks (not as much), what about the other bits... Anyone got a Brake Systems 101 speak available?

SupD I assume you're ok now and I can hijack this thread? If not I'll p/o

You can hijack it all you want, my questions have been answered. I should be fitting them tomorrow arvo so will be able to see the results first hand. So I'm expecting improved braking but I'm hoping they will also result in the lever remaining crisp, similar to how it feels after a thorough flush and bleed of the lines. But again, Jim2 didn't have that result when he got them done so maybe I'm expecting the impossible.

Pads in my experience either work or they don't, once the braking surface is all used up then its metal on metal and will start to fuck up your discs. One should never get to this point and change the pads before they are completely finished.

My old ZXR's discs were really pitted which resulted in crap stopping power.

James Deuce
9th August 2006, 20:43
Pads wear out. The stuff they are made of gets abraded away by the disks. The same thing happens to the disks over time. Probably expect a set of disks every 100,000kms for the average Joe, purely to meet minimum thickness standards for a warrant. Disks can also warp. GEt them too hot too quick, or cool them suddenly after getting them hot and you may warp the disk.

Disk calipers need regular cleaning to keep them working well.They are just pistons that push the pads onto the disk due to hydraulic pressure generated by pullling on the brake lever. The master cylinder on your handle bar contains hydraulic fluid which is forced through your brake lines. The fluid is hydroscopic which means it absorbs water. If it absorbs too much water your braking performance will degrade (brake fluid can boil - more water means a lower boiling point) so it needs to be changed regularly.

Uncle B
9th August 2006, 20:48
Upgraded your pads and fluid with the braided lines.
You'll have all the stopping power you'll need without any fade.

Colapop
9th August 2006, 20:51
Ta for that.

Shadows
9th August 2006, 21:28
They are a performance modification. Usually your average brake line will expand and get worse over time and that obviously reflects on the stopping ability of the bike.

I might be slightly wrong, but that is the gist of it.

The difference between Hyosung brakes and a GSX-R brakes with braided lines is amazing. So I imagine stock lines to braided would be noticable.

I always thought they were put on for looks, it never entered my tiny little mind that braided lines might actually be useful! :weird:
Now that it has been explained, it makes perfect logical sense.

bugjuice
9th August 2006, 22:52
under heavy use, regular rubber brake lines absorb the heat of the brake discs and pads as the fluid travels around. What happens to rubber when you warm it up? It expands. This is a contributing factor to brake fade when running hot (track days, fast coro loop etc). Braided lines have (effectively) a dual purpose, in that they cannot expand because they aren't rubber, and the braided stainless steel hosing also helps the cooling of the fluid too. To what effect for the latter, probably not much.

But either way, you keep a stronger brake feel for longer, vs regular rubber hosing.

If you don't push the bike hard and do track days etc, then it's just bling.

And yes, I'd use loctite. Put it this way - if the thread came loose, could you deal with it at the next time you stop and have tools? Bit of an obvious answer, but same applies to anything. If it's a critical part/screw/nut/bolt etc, then you want to secure everything you can, as much as you can.

DMNTD
9th August 2006, 22:57
Now my question is simple, is this just to cover their arses or do I really need to use some loctite??
Have ya met Affman? Ask him dude...:blip:
Just had braided lines fitted to my ZX today. Never riden a bike with them before and got to say that they have improved my braking big time.
Money well spent...oh and sure they do look good too

sAsLEX
9th August 2006, 22:59
Also Cola , older rubber lines can allow the ingress of moisture into the the fluid, this is bad!

Where this is bad is that when real hot the moiusture goes to steam which is compressiable *sp* , ie you squeeze the lever and instead of pushing the pads into the discs it just squishes the gas.

98tls
9th August 2006, 23:07
do it....as long as you buy quality it willl work.....be warned that the dickhead at your local bike shop wont know what your on about....if they dont have the right numbers on them they will be dickheads,

sAsLEX
9th August 2006, 23:08
Have ya met Affman? Ask him dude...:blip:

Mate my callipers have been on and off my bikes a fair few times..........and guess what no loctite and never "lost" a calliper!

Loctite is not a substitute for common sense!

Shadows
9th August 2006, 23:25
under heavy use, regular rubber brake lines absorb the heat of the brake discs and pads as the fluid travels around. What happens to rubber when you warm it up? It expands. This is a contributing factor to brake fade when running hot (track days, fast coro loop etc).


Hang about.... thinking about it I can't understand how heat expansion of the rubber line can really be a factor.
I agree that the outside diameter of the line would increase when heated, but with heat expansion wouldn't the inside diameter of the line also reduce at the same rate?
If heat could be such a factor wouldn't that actually make braided lines prone to closing up internally and becoming dangerous, or am I spouting bullshit?
The idea of hydraulic pressure increasing both inside and outside diameters of the line, making the brakes less effective due to reduced pressure being applied to the piston, makes more sense to me.

The Pastor
9th August 2006, 23:28
Im going to replace all brake lines, brake discs, pads and calipers (excpet for the cailper at the back)

My bike will stop quicker than helen can get to the rugby!

Shadows
9th August 2006, 23:32
My bike will stop quicker than helen can get to the rugby!

Awwwwwww don't be like that, she pays your wages!

Dafe
10th August 2006, 06:24
What Speedie said,

and also, with the braided lines, you can now run Dot 5 brake fluid, which has a far higher boiling point than the standard brake fluid. Hence, the prevention of brake fade.

Braided brakes also pressurise better, Hence the stronger feel in the brake lever. A slight touch will now have a far stronger braking effect.

Colapop
10th August 2006, 08:38
Can that be a bad thing? I remember as a kid getting chucked over the handlebars when I sqeezed the wrong brake too hard!

Motu
10th August 2006, 09:08
The brake hoses are also designed to give the brake system ''feel'' by giving some flex,in the same way as a kink was often put in a rod operated rear brake,the flex gives it more feel.Also the rubber hoses,new or old,allow water to pass through into the fluid - it's the boiling of the water that gives the spongey feel,not the brake hoses.A completely solid steel piped system is not hydroscopic.I'm not sure about the construction of stainless hoses,but I expect they still have a rubber inner liner,this will still allow water in - the stainless cover is to stop expansion.

Postie
10th August 2006, 09:12
What Speedie said,

and also, with the braided lines, you can now run Dot 5 brake fluid, which has a far higher boiling point than the standard brake fluid. Hence, the prevention of brake fade.

Braided brakes also pressurise better, Hence the stronger feel in the brake lever. A slight touch will now have a far stronger braking effect.

You can use DOT 5 with normal rubber hose's too, you can even use DOT 5.1 if you want. DOT 4 is recommended because its less hydroscopic then 5 or 5.1 which means you don't need to change it as often, and since your average joe very rarely changes the brake fluid as much as they should, especially in a car, they recommend DOT 4.

Shadows
10th August 2006, 10:02
Buggy kinda explained it further up, but not quite. You get brake fade because the discs get hot, causing the fluid to heat, causing the rubber lines to warm up, which makes the rubber lines soft! So when you squeeze the lever forcing hot fluid in the line again, it "balloons" due to softness. Once that happens there is not as much force applied to the calipers.....brake fade..............................

Thats all, its not a hard concept to grasp

Softness, rather than expansion, caused by heat is what you are saying. Yeah, that makes sense. I'd better lay off the :doobey: I'm getting stoopid.

bobsmith
10th August 2006, 11:24
Softness, rather than expansion, caused by heat is what you are saying. Yeah, that makes sense. I'd better lay off the :doobey: I'm getting stoopid.

Also, when you heat a tube of whatever material, the inner diameter of the hose will tend to enlarge as the material expends, think about a steel ball and a steel ring that is very very tight, when you heat the ring, you'll find that the hole gets bigger and you can put the ball through easily.

When the hose gets hot, as the inner diameter AND the outer diameter gets larger together and the distance between the inner surface and outer surface will stay about the same. Because of the diameter change of the hose though, there will be more area in the ring formed between inner surface area and the outer one which is where that expension is happening....

does that make sence? if I had a picture it would be much easier to explain...

Lou Girardin
10th August 2006, 11:32
Brake fade is a loss of friction coefficient of the pads due to excess heat. Excess travel is caused by expansion of brake components due to heat and the boiling of water vapour in the brake fluid. (Sometimes the fluid itself boils.

bugjuice
10th August 2006, 13:44
You can use DOT 5 with normal rubber hose's too, you can even use DOT 5.1 if you want. DOT 4 is recommended because its less hydroscopic then 5 or 5.1 which means you don't need to change it as often, and since your average joe very rarely changes the brake fluid as much as they should, especially in a car, they recommend DOT 4.
DOT5 is something like fluid for hydrolics or something or other.. 5.1 is for brakes. Don't know what the big difference is, but it's a mistake to get it wrong!

Some people say you should never use 5.1.. no idea why.. I do

sAsLEX
10th August 2006, 13:57
DOT5 is something like fluid for hydrolics or something or other.. 5.1 is for brakes. Don't know what the big difference is, but it's a mistake to get it wrong!

Some people say you should never use 5.1.. no idea why.. I do

See what imdyn says below.

Oh and Motu I had already pointed out the water ingress through rubber tubing.

bugjuice
10th August 2006, 14:10
mmmm.. i was under the impression that even tho they carried similar properties, you still shouldn't mix them up.. I'll stop by Ripco and have a read.

As for the water thing, yeah DOT 5.1 absorbs more, but I change it every 6 months anyway, so don't care. Keeps the brakes feeling sharp..

Postie
10th August 2006, 15:19
Good old "how stuff works.com"

The U.S. Department of Transportation issues specifications for brake fluid. The three main types of brake fluid now available are DOT3, DOT4 and DOT5. DOT3 and DOT4 are glycol-based fluids, and DOT5 is silicon-based. The main difference is that DOT3 and DOT4 absorb water, while DOT5 doesn't.
One of the important characteristics of brake fluid is its boiling point. Hydraulic systems rely on an incompressible fluid to transmit force. Liquids are generally incompressible while gases are compressible. If the brake fluid boils (becomes a gas), it will lose most of its ability to transmit force. This may partially or completely disable the brakes. To make matters worse, the only time you are likely to boil your brake fluid is during a period of prolonged braking, such a drive down a mountain -- certainly not the best time for brake failure!

As a DOT3 or DOT4 brake fluid absorbs water, its boiling point decreases. It can absorb water from the air, which is why you should avoid opening your car's brake fluid reservoir. For the same reason, you should always keep containers of brake fluid tightly sealed.

DOT5 fluid does not absorb water. This means the boiling point will remain relatively stable, but it also means that any water that does get into your brake system will tend to form pure water pockets, which could cause brake corrosion.

Two other important things about brake fluid: DOT3 and DOT4 eat paint, so don't spill it on your car. Also, none of the different types of brake fluid should be mixed. They can react badly with each other and corrode your brake system.

(below text from http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_brakefluid_1a.shtml )

Historically, DOT 5-level performance (specifically boiling points and viscosity) could only be achieved with silicone-based fluids. However, modern compounding has created glycol ether-based fluids which now meet DOT 5 bogeys in these key areas. Consequently, the DOT 5.1 moniker was created to differentiate between these two very different chemistries which both meet DOT 5 performance requirements.

In so many words, DOT 5.1 fluids are simply DOT 4-type fluids which meet DOT 5 performance requirements. Because of this, they typically can be mixed with DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluids without concern. In some circles, they are even referred to as ‘DOT 4 Plus’ or ‘Super DOT 4’ fluids because they are more similar to a conventional DOT 4 fluid by chemistry than they are to a conventional DOT 5 fluid. In fact, DOT 5.1 is essentially comprised of Borate Esters.



the big advantage of the DOT 5.1 fluids is that they contain all of the nifty water-absorbing characteristics of the DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids while simultaneously providing for very high boiling points and relatively stable viscosity over a wide range of temperatures. The best of all worlds, you could say. The table below sums it up quite nicely.

PROPERTY DOT 4 DOT 5 DOT 5.1
Dry BP (F)@ 0.0% H2O 446 509 509
Wet BP (F)@ 3.7% H2O 311 356 356
Chemical Composition Glycol Ether / Borate Ester Silicone Based Glycol Ether / Borate Ester

Motu
10th August 2006, 15:36
Apart from the fact that the water content of the fluid boils,these repeated heating and coolings,and other compounds it finds in the fluid - the water content turns acidic.Another way to say it is...it turns into an electrolite,and turns your brake system into a battery,removing metal from here,and depositing it there.This is how you get corrosion pits in master and wheel cyls.

I test brake fluid with a multimetre - positive to earth and neg into the resivour....anything over 300 millivolts means the fluid has absorbed too much water.The same thing happens to your coolant,it turns into an electrolite...anything over 600 millivolts and dump it.

Ghost Lemur
10th August 2006, 19:41
Thanks for the tip Motu. That one's going in the knowledge base.

How frequently would you suggest testing it?

imdying
10th August 2006, 20:01
What is DOT 5?
DOT 5 fluid, it has a silicon base.
You must never put this in your bike, unless (like some Harley Davidsons) it came with it factory.
It will make your seals (that have previously been in a glycol based fluid) swell, or otherwise deteriorate.

And the other brake fluids?
DOT 3/4/5.1 are all interchangable, they have a glycol base.

The higher the DOT number, the higher the wet boiling point. The higher the DOT number, the more hygroscopic it is, which means the faster water is absorbed by it. More hygroscopic merely means you need to change it more often. 5.1 fluid should be changed every year. Most road riders will not boil DOT 4, so they don't need to change to 5.1. Having said that, it's a cheap upgrade.

Why did they make DOT5
DOT 5 fluid isn't hygroscopic at all, it was developed for the US army. IIRC, Castrol had much to do with its development, and they no longer bother developing it further. It has been, at times, popular with people restoring old cars because it has less effect on paint (although it's a prick to repaint anything that has had it spilt on it). It was also popular with them because it's unhygroscopic nature resists rusting old cast iron cylinders.

Can you put DOT 5 fluid in your bike?
You can do anything if you're motivated. You shouldn't, but you can. You should ideally get seals designed for use in Silicon based fluids, either off the shelf, or more likely custom made.

You can however get seals for glycol, and soak them in DOT 5 fluid. If they don't swell in a week, they will probably be fine to use. If they do, get some more and try again.

The thing is, some compositions of rubber made for glycol fluids will function ok in DOT 5 fluid, some will not, trial and error. Personally, you'd be mug to try, silicon fluid it a cunt.

Good on paint, not hygroscopic, any bad points about DOT 5
Can be a bitch to repaint any area that has had it spilt on it, although silicon isn't as much of a problem these days as it has been (better paint preps now).
When fluid enters the system (it will via the heat cycling if nothing else) it pools in the system. Rather than lowing the boiling point overall, slightly degrading performance, the pools will boil off, causing big air bubbles and major brake fade.

You want me to Loctite what?
Yes, loctite the assembly areas on the braided lines. This is where the braided line meets the banjo assembly. If that comes undone, you're dead. They should also never ever be disassembled and reassembled, so loctite them up good (yes, people have brought me calipers off bike to recon, with the banjo piece attached... they didn't undo the banjo bolt, they undid the banjo to hose connector instead... plonkers).

The caliper bolts, a small amount of low strength loctite is cheap insurance, but not required.

The banjo bolts, a small amount of low strength maybe cheap insurance, but is not required.

So braided lines, worth it?
If they're not correctly stamped, they're illiegal on the road, and will fail a WOF. They degrade on the inside... you don't know if they're fagged or not. I've seen the inner lines give out, no more brakes, and that kids is not cool. They're primarily a racing component, designed to be replaced after a certain number of hours. They're quite safe used that way, as tracks have run offs, and they're replaced when they're old. As for performance increase... subjective, if you're not a demon on the brakes, you may be disappointed.

So rubber is safer then?
I have seen a rubber hose with a damaged inner take over 5000psi on the outer lining itself. Sure it bulged up something chronic, but it didn't kill the driver.

But they expand when they're hot!
Yes, you will get some expansion when the hoses are old. When they're new, the expansion is negligible for road riding. Its worth noting that whilst replacing braided lines after a certain amount of usage is recommended, your manual probably says replace your rubber lines every 3 years too.

But factory rubber lines are way too expensive
If you're stuck for rubber lines, or don't like the cost of new ones, I can make new lines out of a proper motorcycle specific low expansion rubber hose for a modest price. Always ring your dealer though, they might not be that bad. I don't deal in braided lines as a rules, too many problems with WOF agents not knowing what is legit and what isn't, and failing perfectly legal ones as a result. There has been futher instruction from the LTSA on this matter as of late, so this should be less of a problem. If you want top quality braided lines, crimped, none of the screw together bullshit (none of this are legal AFAIK), get Goodridge.

imdying
10th August 2006, 20:02
I test brake fluid with a multimetre - positive to earth and neg into the resivour....anything over 300 millivolts means the fluid has absorbed too much water.The same thing happens to your coolant,it turns into an electrolite...anything over 600 millivolts and dump it.You are a cunning man ;)

imdying
10th August 2006, 20:03
Umm aint DOT 5.1 a new mix that aint as good as 5 but has some of the longer lasting properties of 4.

You will find all the racing type of fluids are 5.This is not correct.

imdying
10th August 2006, 20:05
mmmm.. i was under the impression that even tho they carried similar properties, you still shouldn't mix them up.. I'll stop by Ripco and have a read.

As for the water thing, yeah DOT 5.1 absorbs more, but I change it every 6 months anyway, so don't care. Keeps the brakes feeling sharp..
You should never mix fluids as a rule, it's bad practice. However, for the purposes of flushing a system with new fluid, 3/4/5.1 are interchangeable.

You should never ever put 5 into a system that has had a glycol based fluid, unless you replace every rubber component (including hoses and check valves) with components designed for silicon, or components that have been soaking in silicon for a significant period of time (to prove their compatibility).

SuperDave
10th August 2006, 22:17
Bugger the ones I've bought are the screw together type but they do look good quality but then again what do I know? I'll be fitting them tomorrow so I'll see how it all goes. Thanks for all that info imdying and thanks for answering the question regards the loctite - I purchased the necessary one today.

SuperDave
11th August 2006, 16:22
Just fitted them lines this afternoon and went for a short test run - seem to be working prefectly fine and a noticable increase in stopping power. But what I like the most is how the lever feels now, hopefully it will stay like it is now.

imdying
11th August 2006, 18:28
Bugger the ones I've bought are the screw together type but they do look good quality but then again what do I know? I'll be fitting them tomorrow so I'll see how it all goes. Thanks for all that info imdying and thanks for answering the question regards the loctite - I purchased the necessary one today.The quality isn't necessarily in question, just their ability to be certified. Because they can be disassembled (which is bad) and reassembled, they need to be recertified every time... if they could be certified in the first place, ha!

SuperDave
12th August 2006, 18:47
I didn't realise that these wouldn't pass WOF - I did ask and was told that they were fine. Oh well no problem, I'll just go to the guy I bought the bike off and get my WOF from him, he'll pass it not sweat :blip:

Colapop
12th August 2006, 18:57
I was having a yarn to a guy today and he was saying that braided lines that have nut type fittings will not pass a warrant. They have to have crimped connections from now (or soon) onwards.

imdying
12th August 2006, 19:02
I didn't realise that these wouldn't pass WOF - I did ask and was told that they were fine. Oh well no problem, I'll just go to the guy I bought the bike off and get my WOF from him, he'll pass it not sweat :blip:
Yep, they don't necessarily have to pass legitimately ;) And seeing as you're well aware of the risks involved, and won't disassemble them at the hose to banjo connector, it's a risk that's been sufficiently mitigated.

As colapop says, crimped lines only can be certified for use in NZ roads.

SuperDave
12th August 2006, 19:22
Okay so there are no screw in type ones that do comply?

I've just had a look at them and the following is stamped on the lines
DOT B.H. SAE J 1401 01/06 3MM. H.L

Does that mean anything?

I'm a bit ticked off, I did ask at the shop if these lines would pass WOF and if they were all okay and I was definately told that there wouldn't be any problem.

Sorry I'm asking again just want to make sure exactly where I stand here.

Colapop
12th August 2006, 19:46
I reckon you should check with VTNZ or summat (Motu maybe??). The word I got was that screw on type ones will not pass WOF. They must be crimped at the banjo...?

imdying
12th August 2006, 20:07
Okay so there are no screw in type ones that do comply?

I've just had a look at them and the following is stamped on the lines
DOT B.H. SAE J 1401 01/06 3MM. H.LThat hose is compliant with New Zealand laws, and you should be able to get a warrant.

It may just be that the actual hose itself is of that standard, not the entire hose. Regardless, that SAE J1401 is the number you need.

In theory, a hose that can be disassembled and reassembled can't be certified in NZ. Out of curiosity, do your hoses have marker paint across the join of the nut and banjo?

SuperDave
12th August 2006, 20:33
No marker paint. Why what does this mean or would it mean if it did have?

Also would you please explain why disconnecting the hose at the nut connecting to the banjo is bad? I would have though that provided you clean off the old loctite properly and use fresh loctite when you tighten it up again it would be just as safe as it was to start?

imdying
12th August 2006, 21:41
No marker paint. Why what does this mean or would it mean if it did have?

Also would you please explain why disconnecting the hose at the nut connecting to the banjo is bad? I would have though that provided you clean off the old loctite properly and use fresh loctite when you tighten it up again it would be just as safe as it was to start?
The marker paint would imply that it was certified assembled, and you can see if the paint has been broken, (i.e. disassembled).

You can't disassemble and reassemble them because the olive used on the connector needs replacing if you're to do that. The loctite isn't the issue.

AllanB
1st October 2006, 21:34
Sounds like the same brake line I purchased a while back for my last bike - the little o-ring seal that fits at the screw together join can be purchased for about $4 each from your line supplier if you unscrew them (why though?). Paint a line on the nut/join yourself for piece of mind so you will notice if anything moves over time.

Pixie
2nd October 2006, 12:04
, and the braided stainless steel hosing also helps the cooling of the fluid too. To what effect for the latter, probably not much.



not much at all.
The fluid in a bike's brake system doesn't actually move much, so the only part that gets heated is down near and in the caliper.
On top of that, the inner lining of braided lines is teflon or nylon;both poor heat conductors.
The braid is more for mechanical protection

Pixie
2nd October 2006, 12:15
Apart from the fact that the water content of the fluid boils,these repeated heating and coolings,and other compounds it finds in the fluid - the water content turns acidic.Another way to say it is...it turns into an electrolite,and turns your brake system into a battery,removing metal from here,and depositing it there.This is how you get corrosion pits in master and wheel cyls.

I test brake fluid with a multimetre - positive to earth and neg into the resivour....anything over 300 millivolts means the fluid has absorbed too much water.The same thing happens to your coolant,it turns into an electrolite...anything over 600 millivolts and dump it.

Clever monkey :first:

Bonez
2nd October 2006, 19:03
Anyone mentioned yet that when braided line fail they FAIL. Thats it no brakes at all. The teflon cracks after a while. They don't have the multi layered lining rubber lines do.

I've got screw in ones fitted to the 550F and they pass have passed WOFs at all the testing stations I've taken it to. The braided line has a plastic sheath with the approriated markings. The bango fittings have these stamped on them also.

Disco Dan
30th January 2007, 15:55
Anyone mentioned yet that when braided line fail they FAIL. Thats it no brakes at all. The teflon cracks after a while. They don't have the multi layered lining rubber lines do.

I've got screw in ones fitted to the 550F and they pass have passed WOFs at all the testing stations I've taken it to. The braided line has a plastic sheath with the approriated markings. The bango fittings have these stamped on them also.

Just noticed that my bike has braided lines, they are crimped style but I cannot find any stamps on them?

Dont know how old they are???? Will they kill me?