Engine with steel pistons?

[ManDownUnder]

What engines are out there with cast steel pistons - must be steel.

I don't care if they're car or bike engines... I'm going to use it for a pump but the stuff it's pumping will eat Aluminium.

I've heard old Holden motors (186, 202 etc) have steel pistons - anyone able to verify that?

Suggestions?
MDU

[Lou Girardin]

I know Holdens don't. The only things I can recall that had cast iron pistons are vintage engines and some commercial diesels.
Motu should know.

[crashe]

Pm MOTU he da man who knows his stuff about cars...

[Crisis management]

I've never heard of an internal combustion engine using steel or even cast iron (althought they could be an option at low surface speed) pistons.
I did my apprenticeship (1970's) at Repco when we made pistons etc and there was never any steel in those except for a cast in spheroidal graphite cast iron top piston ring support on some british diesel pistons.
How about hard chrome plating a conventional piston? All this depends on the application, lubrication, heat etc..
Keep posting, I want to see how this pans out.

[bungbung]

MDU, what about a piston from a pump?

[ManDownUnder]

I've never heard of an internal combustion engine using steel or even cast iron (althought they could be an option at low surface speed) pistons.
I did my apprenticeship (1970's) at Repco when we made pistons etc and there was never any steel in those except for a cast in spheroidal graphite cast iron top piston ring support on some british diesel pistons.
How about hard chrome plating a conventional piston? All this depends on the application, lubrication, heat etc..
Keep posting, I want to see how this pans out.

Cheers... and I like it... hard chroming... hmm


MDU, what about a piston from a pump?
I'm looking to make a pump (multistage reciprocating piston... pump...), but yeah - that's the idea.

Damn... I was hoping summat would be easy to do.

[TLDV8]

If it is for a pumping chamber with some other means to drive it,why not a plastic/teflon etc piston ?

[Crisis management]

I'm looking to make a pump (multistage reciprocating piston... pump...),

If its multi stage does that mean different size bore as pressure increases (constant load per bore)???
If its that complicated you may need to make more than just pistons:gob:

[Motu]

Chev 6cyls used cast iron pistons in the '30's,they moved to alloy in the late '40's.I did a '38 Chev motor in 1999,it ran the white metal big ends and we had it converted to shell bearings...about the same cost as repouring the white metal ones.The pistons were standard and it was just reringed....no wear on pistons or bore.In the '70's I rebuilt a '36 Chev Coupe - I was trying to find some pistons to fit,but as there was no wear at all on the pistons,I just had it resleeved and fitted the original pistons.My own '38 Coupe had a '46 motor which had alloy pistons,so it could rev to 3,600rpm no worries.

But you want a pump - I used to be a compressor mechanic once too,and they often have cast iron pistons.I once pulled down a Champion that was so worn one whole side of the skirt was gone.Cast iron is an excellent piston material,low wear and low noise....pity you can't rev them.

[Crisis management]

Well you learn something every day, I didn't appreciate cast iron pistons were that widely used, thanks Motu:Punk:

How about using a Hydraulic pump or motor as a start point, generally all steel & cast iron and reasonably cheap, but it depends on how much stuff your pumping and its lubricity.

More info MDU!

[cowpoos]

What engines are out there with cast steel pistons - must be steel.

I don't care if they're car or bike engines... I'm going to use it for a pump but the stuff it's pumping will eat Aluminium.

I've heard old Holden motors (186, 202 etc) have steel pistons - anyone able to verify that?

Suggestions?
MDU
what are you pumping?

[Madmax]

You could get one cast (lost wax casting) the problem is getting them
machined, they need to be ground and most pistons are not round
but oval to allow for expansion

[Motu]

With alloy yes - but cast iron pistons are made of the same material as the bore,they run tighter clearances and don't need any fancy tricks because of high expansion rates.

[ManDownUnder]

Sotty guys... I have a job too 9apparently) which takes me away from my work here at KB..

Pumping oil with Caustic Soda (NaOH) in it as part of making BioDiesel. I can move a little bit from A to B using a power steering pump but it has Aluminium bits inb it which get eaen by the NaOH... hence my requirement for Steel (or Stainless or Teflon or HDPE...)

It struck me that an engine with suitably protected pistons would do the trick.

I've had all the conversations about head flow characteristics of pumping liquids, and bypass of the ring polluting the oil etc - those problems are solved... the pain in the butt issue is currently finding a piston (and crack and bore) that does not involve Aluminium...

To put it in context - I'm looking to pump 50 litres a minute (initially) then more... so we're talking 50 RPM from a 1 litre motor... that's less than one rev per second.

Hope that helps... now... back to where I was... positive displacement pumps without any Al in them... (watch out for housings... they're most often Al too... dammit!)

[Motu]

How about bronze? I used a bronze vane pump to pump my grey water - bronze body,but I think the rotor was steel,and mica or whatever vanes.It pumped like a fire hose on 2:1,and had to gear it well down to pump unattended.We had a pump we used to pump out our waste oil tanks,a really weird thing it was too - a bronze body with a squiggly neopreme worm inside,I had no idea how it worked,but it did.One day while we were using it,the guy who invented and made them walked into the shop...weird eh? It was sort of like a rotary screw using a flexable screw.It was NZ made,so there must be more around.

[digsaw]

What about a marine submersible electric builge pump, or a nitrol impeller pump used for pumping sea water used for engine cooling in boats.:yes:

[Flyingpony]

How about an older style water pump from a car?

Have you thought about using Gravity in your design?

[Smokin]

We have pnumatic diaphram pumps at work that are used for pumping anything, waste oil, glue and timber treatment. They have a plastic body with a rubber diaphram, they have a very good flow rate but a bit low on pressure side of things.
I can get you a model name tomorrow if you want?

[cowpoos]

Sotty guys... I have a job too 9apparently) which takes me away from my work here at KB..

Pumping oil with Caustic Soda (NaOH) in it as part of making BioDiesel. I can move a little bit from A to B using a power steering pump but it has Aluminium bits inb it which get eaen by the NaOH... hence my requirement for Steel (or Stainless or Teflon or HDPE...)

It struck me that an engine with suitably protected pistons would do the trick.

I've had all the conversations about head flow characteristics of pumping liquids, and bypass of the ring polluting the oil etc - those problems are solved... the pain in the butt issue is currently finding a piston (and crack and bore) that does not involve Aluminium...

To put it in context - I'm looking to pump 50 litres a minute (initially) then more... so we're talking 50 RPM from a 1 litre motor... that's less than one rev per second.

Hope that helps... now... back to where I was... positive displacement pumps without any Al in them... (watch out for housings... they're most often Al too... dammit!)
go to a milking machine company and get a ex-cowshed diaphram pump....has rubber diaphram...completly okay for oils and caustic soda...we wash our plants with caustic soda so sweet as....will be cheap as chips cause they arn't used on new plants...it will work a treat and solve ya problem!!

[MikeyG]

Like poos says go for a diaphragm pump. They are used for pumping caustic in diary sheds, dairy factories, sewage treatment plants and water treatment plants. Air or electricity powered ones are available off the shelf.