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toymachine
23rd August 2006, 18:46
Just came across this http://www.datacraftsystems.co.uk/techniques/techniques_left/ while reading up on riding techniques...


The Clutchless Gear Change

To change gear we roll off the throttle and pull in the clutch lever, kick up the gear lever then engage the gear selected by releasing the clutch lever and rolling the power back on.

There is another way when changing UP from 2nd gear and above:

Leave the clutch lever entirely alone. Roll off the throttle and kick up the gear lever then re-apply the power. Modern gearboxes are so smooth that a slight closing of the throttle will enable you to change gear smoothly without using the clutch.

Many gearboxes will allow you to change down without using the clutch but this is generally less smooth.

If you intend to try this for the first time then start by changing up in the higher gear ratios first rather than from first to second. For example: change up to fourth in the normal way and accelerate to the speed that you would normally change to fifth. Roll off the throttle and immediately kick the gear lever up to fifth and be ready to roll on the throttle soon after that!

Advantages of the clutchless gear change is that it is quicker, smoother and less wearing on the mechanics of the bike.

I'm really quite interested in this, do many people use this technique? I wonder if the Bandit classifies as a 'modern bike' in the sense they're using the phrase. Quicker shift and aparently better for the bike is win win..?

bugjuice
23rd August 2006, 18:49
i only use the clutch to stop n start.. can't be arsed using it while riding, and makes for smoother (usually) shifting and riding too..

98tls
23rd August 2006, 18:50
Am Thinking this could be quite bad for mechanicals on bike if you get it wrong.....

boomer
23rd August 2006, 18:58
i clutchless shift when i've been on a blast and going through a town where i'm usually riding one handed(relaxing), otherwise i use it

enigma51
23rd August 2006, 19:02
i clutchless shift when i've been on a blast and going through a town where i'm usually riding one handed(relaxing), otherwise i use it

:rofl: :rofl:

Jsn
23rd August 2006, 19:14
lol i learned that you don't have to use the clutch when my bike fell over for the first time and the clutch lever snapped off.. damn handy that even when the levers and kickstart lever and everything breaks, you can still crash start and ride home :)

sAsLEX
23rd August 2006, 19:19
You can actually apply pressure on the lever first before rolling off the throttle and when you do roll off the throttle the next gear clicks in far smoother than waiting till rolling off before putting presure on the lever!

cowpoos
23rd August 2006, 19:21
clutchless up shifting is totally fine....won't harm your gear box at all....roll off the gas a lil....click it up a gear and bingo....
changing down without the clutch can be very detramental to your gear box...especially the selector fork...I don't and wouldn't recomend it...

sugilite
23rd August 2006, 19:54
I'm with Poos on this one, last two race meetings I've had probs with the clutch on the 750 not actuating from about lap 4 on (thought I'd fixed it, but did not do it at road speeds) The bike did not like changing down without the clutch at all, neither did I!
Changing up, sweet :yes:

sunhuntin
23rd August 2006, 20:57
have heard about it, but dont really want to risk it. i have done it accidentally when a gear fails to engage right, but she doesnt like it much.

SlashWylde
23rd August 2006, 21:09
I've recently started clutchless up-shifting on the VN when I'm out thrashing it around the countryside and want quick smooth changes - works fine.

Around town I normally use the clutch more out of sheer habit than anything else.

Ralph
23rd August 2006, 21:38
clutchless up shifting is totally fine....won't harm your gear box at all....roll off the gas a lil....click it up a gear and bingo....
changing down without the clutch can be very detramental to your gear box...especially the selector fork...I don't and wouldn't recomend it...
Have to agree with cowpoos on that 1, on a regular basis I change up without the clutch, changing down not an easy shift to get right.

Steam
23rd August 2006, 21:43
So this is like in those old WW2 English tanks, which had no clutch at all, and the tank drivers just had to match the revs and crash the gears up or down? Sounds a lot smoother on a bike!
I have done it once or twice by accident, but will have a go properly now.

Shadows
23rd August 2006, 21:46
I'm really quite interested in this, do many people use this technique? I wonder if the Bandit classifies as a 'modern bike' in the sense they're using the phrase. Quicker shift and aparently better for the bike is win win..?

Your Bandit will clutchless shift just fine.
I shift without a clutch a lot on longer trips, I've got a pretty heavy clutch so any relief I can give my left hand is welcome after about the first fuel stop.
I don't so much around town, I've usually got a finger or two hovering over each lever in built up areas so I might as well use them.

notme
23rd August 2006, 22:20
Check out these links....have been over this many many times: (especially the first one)

http://www.vf750fd.com/blurbs/shifting.html
http://home.cfl.rr.com/genecash/transmission_applet/transmission_applet.html

Essentially, the smaller and lighter the box the easier this technique will be. Bigarse heavy cruiser=harder to apply and less point, small light sprotsbike=easier and more point in doing it.

Watch out for Goldwingz with that pesky reverse gear......clutch definitely needed for that one!

notme
23rd August 2006, 22:21
As an aside, you realise you can do this in a car (carefully)don't you? In fact, very old cars require the technique....:whocares:

McJim
23rd August 2006, 22:40
Found a website that mentions Crotchless Shitting but didn't think you folks would be interested.

Fat Tony
23rd August 2006, 22:51
Found a website that mentions Crotchless Shitting but didn't think you folks would be interested.

PMSL you wrong-un!

I've always clutchless shift (up not down), though 1-2 can be a bit hit and miss sometimes even on a Suzuki box. No evidence of any detrimental effect at all even after 55000km of abuse on my old GSXR600k1 :)

SuperDave
23rd August 2006, 22:55
Interesting how you say it would be easier on a smaller bike Allun because I personally couldn't get this right on my old ZXR, just sounded and felt like I was doing the bike much damage each time I tried.

However now that I'm familiar with the 600 I tend to Upshift 95% without the clutch, though the shift from 1st to 2nd requires a much better technique than any of the other shifts. As others have said I wouldn't recommend downshifting without the clutch, I've done it by accident a few times and it's either been super smooth or very jerky. But still, its not so much useful on a downshift, as when doing so it's easier to use the lever. However I personally find it quite hard to upshift with the clutch when accelerating hard.

rwh
23rd August 2006, 23:05
I've been trying it a bit; I don't seem to get the upshifts very smooth. However, when slowing for a corner without braking, the downshifts are very smooth if I'm concentrating - except second to first. I just rest my foot on the lever as I approach the corner with throttle right off, then give the slightest blip and it changes down beautifully. Less nice if I blip it too much ...

I was discussing this with a friend the other day, and he said that racers will often do the upshifts using the rev limiter - preload the lever, and it shifts automagically when it hits redline, just like backing off the throttle. Is this common practice?

mazz1972
23rd August 2006, 23:15
I learnt to ride offroad on a shitty old XR and hardly ever used the clutch coz it was a bit stiff and couldn't be arsed adjusting it.

I usually do use the clutch these days, sometimes not....sometimes find myself forgetting to use it when I've been riding my quad which has an automatic clutch.

Generally only upshifting, it works a treat.

Hubby hardly ever uses the clutch on his DRZ400.

notme
24th August 2006, 08:41
Interesting how you say it would be easier on a smaller bike Allun because I personally couldn't get this right on my old ZXR, just sounded and felt like I was doing the bike much damage each time I tried.

However now that I'm familiar with the 600 I tend to Upshift 95% without the clutch, though the shift from 1st to 2nd requires a much better technique than any of the other shifts. As others have said I wouldn't recommend downshifting without the clutch, I've done it by accident a few times and it's either been super smooth or very jerky. But still, its not so much useful on a downshift, as when doing so it's easier to use the lever. However I personally find it quite hard to upshift with the clutch when accelerating hard.

It's a big generalization, generally sprotsbikes will be lighter than crusiers, with less engine flywheel effect, and potentially less traction (from less weight on the rear wheel.) A dirtbike should be easier still, because you (probably) have far less traction on the rear wheel, a lighter bike again, and smaller engine with less flywheel effect again. Clutchless upshifts should be easy (barring mechanical issues) - so maybe the ZXR had a worn box or something?


That first link in my post above really does explain it all very well :yes:

Motu
24th August 2006, 09:07
racers will often do the upshifts using the rev limiter - preload the lever, and it shifts automagically when it hits redline, just like backing off the throttle. Is this common practice?

Some guys used to shift with the kill button - a button on the left bar,and just fan it for an upshift.I've never had problems with clutchless shifting,just a flick of the throttle.It's always easier to do them in a full throttle going hard type action...although on an older bike,like my old XS650,I'll sometimes just feel the gears through at slow speeds - the trucks I learnt to drive were old '60's style crash boxes,so it comes pretty easy to me.

Clutchless downshifts are ok,but again,you have to do them very hard and aggressive,or very slow.2 strokes are great for clutchless up or down shifts - I often accidently down shift on the DT230,with my foot waving in the air on and off the peg,sometimes I brush the lever and I'm down a gear at the wrong time!

zadok
24th August 2006, 09:22
I'm with cowpoos and sugilite on this one. Upshifting from 2nd up is no problem. I mastered the art of downshifting without the clutch as well, but was advised against it, for the previously mentioned reason.
My previous bike was very 'clunky' and I really needed to use the clutch all the time, so it seems it can depend on the bike you have. I'm sure most will be fine on the upshift.

Masterchop
24th August 2006, 09:31
[QUOTE=cowpoos;729017]clutchless up shifting is totally fine....won't harm your gear box at all....roll off the gas a lil....click it up a gear and bingo....
changing down without the clutch can be very detramental to your gear box...especially the selector fork...I don't and wouldn't recomend it...

Yea, What he said.

I have done it forever,since moto cross ,road racing and road riding and never had a problem with a gearbox.
Especially when riding hard up changes are much faster,have done the odd down change clutchless aswell that seem to work ok but I dont like it so much.

Shaun
24th August 2006, 10:07
You can actually apply pressure on the lever first before rolling off the throttle and when you do roll off the throttle the next gear clicks in far smoother than waiting till rolling off before putting presure on the lever!


This works a treat BUT, by pre loading your gear leaver you now have the selector fork ingaged or rubbing on another metel part, in time this will damage your selector forks, best way is just timing it yourself to look after your gearbox

Motu
24th August 2006, 10:57
by pre loading your gear leaver you now have the selector fork ingaged or rubbing on another metel part, in time this will damage your selector forks

When air shift splitters came out on trucks some drivers would preselect and the gear would slam straight in when they unloaded with a fan on the clutch.It was pretty obvious when you pulled the box down,real heavy selector fork wear.Now most trucks are owner driver they have learnt not to do it the hard way...through their pocket!

Ghost Lemur
24th August 2006, 13:11
Some guys used to shift with the kill button - a button on the left bar,and just fan it for an upshift.I've never had problems with clutchless shifting,just a flick of the throttle.It's always easier to do them in a full throttle going hard type action...although on an older bike,like my old XS650,I'll sometimes just feel the gears through at slow speeds - the trucks I learnt to drive were old '60's style crash boxes,so it comes pretty easy to me.

Clutchless downshifts are ok,but again,you have to do them very hard and aggressive,or very slow.2 strokes are great for clutchless up or down shifts - I often accidently down shift on the DT230,with my foot waving in the air on and off the peg,sometimes I brush the lever and I'm down a gear at the wrong time!


Found the CRM loves clutchless ups. Did it by accident and it was so much smoother than my usual crappy changes, so don't think I'll bother with the clutch. Still use it going down though.

It's going to take me a while to get used to the CRM. It's a totally different beast to the old CB, doesn't help that I'm a complete white-knuckled newbie still.

SuperDave
24th August 2006, 16:20
... - so maybe the ZXR had a worn box or something?




Most probably, the thing did have 117,000kms on the clock :gob:

sAsLEX
24th August 2006, 16:41
This works a treat BUT, by pre loading your gear leaver you now have the selector fork ingaged or rubbing on another metel part, in time this will damage your selector forks, best way is just timing it yourself to look after your gearbox

Thanks I didnt mean pulling hard on the thing just a light pressure, but I do see where your coming from and with nearly 70k up on the beast it might be time to use the proper method.

RT527
24th August 2006, 17:06
Driving Trucks makes this technique very easy for me up or down.
I often dont use the clutch at all unless I`m driving a more modern truck like a scania or volvo, these trucks require you to use the full depression of a clutch.
on the bike I dont use a clutch when i feel like it.

Wasp
24th August 2006, 17:58
hey this is actually pretty cool, i gave it a go on the way home while stuck behind some cars, put a grin on my face it did! cheers for this guys!

redbaron36
2nd October 2006, 19:02
I have only done this in the lower gears and no it is not to smooth. Can do it on the lower gears but habve to time it right for the smoooth change. However the higher gears are sweet as and no wouldn't do it changing down.

Question though can you roll start without a clutch, as once my clutch cable broke and me and a mate would not think we could do it. Opinions, observations, or anything on this one

timmy
13th October 2006, 08:55
I have only done this in the lower gears and no it is not to smooth. Can do it on the lower gears but habve to time it right for the smoooth change. However the higher gears are sweet as and no wouldn't do it changing down.

Question though can you roll start without a clutch, as once my clutch cable broke and me and a mate would not think we could do it. Opinions, observations, or anything on this one

In the old xr200 i just chucked it in netural pushed then selected 2nd when going fast enough. Not ideal situation for the gearbox but it got me home. In saying that the compression is low on a wee dirt bike like that and might be a harder task on a bigger bike

Mr. Peanut
13th October 2006, 19:37
I upshift and downshift without my clutch. I'll let you know if anything breaks :lol:
I did it quite smoothly on Marks ZXR. It's all in the timing.

Motu
13th October 2006, 20:34
Question though can you roll start without a clutch,

Depends on all sorts,but start the engine and push it as fast as you can....a down hill helps considerably here....then jump on and put into gear with the throttle rolled off.If you've managed to get enough speed up it won't stall.

Worse I've ever had to do was my Norton with child/adult sidecar,with my wife and child inside.I wasn't going to push that up to any speed on the flat - so I put it in some thick loose metal and jammed it into gear and used the wheelspin as a clutch.Then I rode it up north to Matakana with no clutch.

Ixion
13th October 2006, 21:38
If you have a centre stand u can put the bike on the centre stand (or the reafr wheel stand if you're really crusty). Start up in gear . Then rock the bike off the stand with a bit of throttle on and hang on tight.

speedpro
13th October 2006, 22:47
If you have a centre stand u can put the bike on the centre stand (or the reafr wheel stand if you're really crusty). Start up in gear . Then rock the bike off the stand with a bit of throttle on and hang on tight.

I recall a similar technique being used by Wally Pushky (?) I think riding a direct drive V8 powered bike at Meremere. They fired it up, he revved it up a bit, then a helper tipped it off the stand.

I might be a bit lazy or something but I hardly ever use the clutch except for starting & stopping, though sometimes I do a bit of an "F5" and slip it out of a corner rather than change gear.

XP@
19th October 2006, 12:58
I was really surprised when I worked out that I was clutchless shifting, because I didn't even realise I was doing it!

When accelletating hard, or when I was just lazy I was pulling the clutch in but not far enough for it to engage, therefore clutchless shift!

Wheeliemonsta
19th October 2006, 13:21
Motorcycle gearboxes are of the sequential (constant mesh) design and will shift up and down happily with out the clutch...

The reason they are rough on the down shift is that you haven't matched your engine and road speeds

Apply a small amount of pressure to the lever prior to actually making the change and you'll get a perfect change every time

Don't be hamfisted and you wont have a problem

Cheers

:Punk:

MyGSXF
10th November 2006, 18:15
Motorcycle gearboxes are of the sequential (constant mesh) design and will shift up and down happily with out the clutch...:Punk:


Tis good to know that it doesn't do any damage.. coz riding home from Greymouth to Nelson @ Labour wknd, with a broken left middle finger in a solid brace.. was rather painful.. :shutup: so gave up using the clutch real quick!!! :Punk:

Jen :rockon:

Ruralman
10th November 2006, 20:25
much easier to keep the KDX front wheel pointing skywards through 2nd,3rd and 4th gear if you don't use the clutch - doing it with the clutch you've got to flick it so fast I doubt whether it is actually being used anyway.
Always use it on the Transalp 'cos I'm not in a crazy adrenaline rush.

Flyno
11th November 2006, 11:22
I race, and i change up without my clutch, it easy, sometimes wen i down shit i wont use the clutch! but its all about the rider YOU!
get a quick shitter and not even hoop of the gas! lol:rockon:

NighthawkNZ
14th November 2006, 15:34
I've been doing on all my rides... ever since my clutch cable broke on a tour and I had to... was a bit difficult and embarssing at the lights :scooter:

I not have to worry about the clutch cable going on the modern hydrulic clutch :Punk: Now I'm just too lazy :done: :yes:

Manxman
22nd November 2006, 18:45
Found a website that mentions Crotchless Shitting but didn't think you folks would be interested.

:rofl: sooooooo funny...

quickbuck
22nd November 2006, 20:18
Question though can you roll start without a clutch, as once my clutch cable broke and me and a mate would not think we could do it. Opinions, observations, or anything on this one

Yep, my mate had to do it on a Ducati Paso.
Had to laugh when my missus (of the time) fell flat on her face after it fired.
Lucky she was in full kit, so the helmet prevented her face getting smashed into the ground of the service station at Picton. Getting on and off the ferry, and the ride to Palmerston North was a real adventure.

Problem: Clutch master cylinder seals blown.

Yep, took a bit of skill, and clutchless changes were the least of his worries.

quickbuck
22nd November 2006, 20:21
Motorcycle gearboxes are of the sequential (constant mesh) design and will shift up and down happily with out the clutch...
:Punk:

Finally, somebody said it.

constant mesh. Says it all (and is printed on most sales brochures).

quickbuck
22nd November 2006, 20:28
If you have a centre stand u can put the bike on the centre stand (or the reafr wheel stand if you're really crusty). Start up in gear . Then rock the bike off the stand with a bit of throttle on and hang on tight.

This was the way we used to wheel stand the CT90.

Was a bit harsh when it came back down though... (stand still down).

Another way was to hold the gear leaver down, rev the nuts of it, and let it go. Big Wheel stand.... Thing died of a melted piston. I have no idea why....
Must have been the way my brother rode it..... LOL

mops
23rd November 2006, 14:22
The reason they are rough on the down shift is that you haven't matched your engine and road speeds



Actually on my b250, shifting up without the clutch is very nice and smooth, all though i haven't tried at high rpm's/high load. it will downshift, but not as smooth, because engine is not very happy to rev up to match speed of the tyre (in lower gear), which normally results in slippage of rear tyre (unless i do it at very low rpm's).

i heard people saying - you have to match the engine speed to the road speed.... and I'm thinking... how do you do that ? you are engaged on gear (so it is matched and you cant do anything about it), you force it into lower gear, without going into neutral... straight onto another gear and by then you expenct the engine to by in sync with the road ? and like how is this supposed to happen ?
so how do you exacly match the engine to road speed ?

DMNTD
23rd November 2006, 14:26
clutchless up shifting is totally fine....won't harm your gear box at all....

My gearbox is currently being replaced after its 4th gear farked out.
They(Kawasaki dealer and Kawasaki NZ) are claiming that it was due to me clutchless changing.
As I've never changed down without using the clutch it would appear that maybe there could be damage incurred.
Dunno...hence why I give my bike to mechanics

Manxman
23rd November 2006, 19:56
My gearbox is currently being replaced after its 4th gear farked out.
They(Kawasaki dealer and Kawasaki NZ) are claiming that it was due to me clutchless changing.
As I've never changed down without using the clutch it would appear that maybe there could be damage incurred.
Dunno...hence why I give my bike to mechanics
Can anyone definitively advise whether clutchless shifting is poss on a '93 250 Bandit? I seem to be doing inadvertently every now and then, but not sure if this is causing any damage...obviously don't want to end up with an expensive repair...
Thanks.

Manxman
23rd November 2006, 20:03
My gearbox is currently being replaced after its 4th gear farked out.
They(Kawasaki dealer and Kawasaki NZ) are claiming that it was due to me clutchless changing.
As I've never changed down without using the clutch it would appear that maybe there could be damage incurred.
Dunno...hence why I give my bike to mechanics
Can anyone definitively advise whether clutchless shifting is poss on a '93 250 Bandit? I seem to be doing inadvertently every now and then, but sure if this is causing any damage...obviously don't want to end up with an expensive repair...
Thanks.

Ixion
23rd November 2006, 20:12
Clutchless shifting up or down on any gearbox is possible. If you are clever enough at rev matching. Whether it is a good idea is another matter. Without the clutch as soon as the dogs engage the whole of the engine inertia and the bike inertia will meet head to head without the cushioning effect of the clutch. That can put a fair shock load on the gearbox components. You won't usually notice it , but the gearbox still has to suddenly take up a whack of torque (one way or another) without any cushion .Except the chain, unless you have a rear cush drive or one of the old engine shock absorbers.

Over time the combined effect of those loads can cause damage. Also, the box will take up as soon as the edges of the dogs engage . (A) that can cause wear to the dog edges (slipping out of gear eventually) and (B) the selector mechanism may be put under extra laod as it has to slide the dogs the rest of the way into engagement when there is a drive (or driven) force loading the mating faces of the dogs.

Some boxes can take it indefinately. Some can't. Clutches are there for a purpose.

Manxman
23rd November 2006, 20:20
Thanks Ixion. I guess I'll play safe and carry on using the clutch...

quickbuck
24th November 2006, 09:56
I have found that my Hondas are better at it than the Suzukis I have owned.
I put it down to a higher quality motorcycle.

As for matching the engine revs to the road speed on the down shift (in a question above), it is easy. That is one of the uses of a tacho.
All you do is think, okay, I'm doing 5000rpm in top, and I am about to slow down (why else would you be changing down, on anything bigger than a 400) so in the next gear, I will still need about 5000rpm (or a bit less.. depending how much you are slowing down), so ensure your revs are about that...

In saying all that, i never do clutchless down shifts, because it usually goes...Righto, braking maker... Full application of both brakes (Note weight of foot is enough for rear), at same time, clutch in, chop down to gear i need to be on exit... clutch out Gas (try to make it full throttle.. if back starts to slip, ease off a bit).

Yeah, you got me... This isn't how I ride on the road, I am just looking foward to Manfeild on the 5th.
Weather is sh1t today, Christmas function after work (one of 7), so bike will spend the weekend here.

Have a safe one all.. :rockon:

dipshit
10th September 2008, 10:15
so how do you exacly match the engine to road speed ?

By blipping the throttle on downshifts.

....

(edit) Holy christ, i didn't realise this thread was so old!

CookMySock
10th September 2008, 11:46
i didn't realise this thread was so old!haha, a common forum-newbie error.. :laugh:

Steve

Katman
10th September 2008, 11:58
Clutchless shifting can accelerate gearbox wear especially if the shifting is done on positive throttle instead of a coasting throttle. The gear dogs are forced to slide across the gear mating face under load eventually causing an angled mating surface and the tendency for the gearbox to want to jump out of gear.

<Rhino>
13th September 2008, 19:59
By blipping the throttle on downshifts.

....

(edit) Holy christ, i didn't realise this thread was so old!

Neither did I, but I read it in anycase and still learned somthing. Tried it out on my bike and in some situations its actualy pretty damn handy.

DarkLord
20th January 2009, 21:06
This is all well and good, but what if your clutch cable snaps when the bike is at a standstill and you are stuck in first (I always leave the bike in gear)?

Max Preload
20th January 2009, 21:11
This is all well and good, but what if your clutch cable snaps when the bike is at a standstill and you are stuck in first (I always leave the bike in gear)?

Ummm it lurches and stalls. You select neutral, get it rolling then select 1st. I had to do it once on a GS1000ST that snapped it's cable at the Ellerslie/Penrose roundabout while I was stationery. Much easier on a 250 that inevitably has much shorter gearing.

DarkLord
20th January 2009, 21:14
Thanks for all your help, Max.

Will I be able to just pull the gear lever from first to neutral while the bike is not moving without using the clutch?

Max Preload
20th January 2009, 21:19
Thanks for all your help, Max.

Will I be able to just pull the gear lever from first to neutral while the bike is not moving without using the clutch?

Yes. You might need to roll the bike forward and back a little to take any tension off the chain and thus load off the drive dogs in the gearbox so the shift drum can move it across via the shift forks.

SARGE
20th January 2009, 21:21
Just came across this http://www.datacraftsystems.co.uk/techniques/techniques_left/ while reading up on riding techniques...



I'm really quite interested in this, do many people use this technique? I wonder if the Bandit classifies as a 'modern bike' in the sense they're using the phrase. Quicker shift and aparently better for the bike is win win..?

rarely use the clutch on the upshift.. just second nature really

BMWST?
20th January 2009, 21:31
Thanks for all your help, Max.

Will I be able to just pull the gear lever from first to neutral while the bike is not moving without using the clutch?

only if the engine is stopped.
If you have no clutch you are changing down as you come to ta stop,then you have to find neutral and coast or just stall the bike with the brakes....that would be hard on the driveline though....

Max Preload
20th January 2009, 21:41
Will I be able to just pull the gear lever from first to neutral while the bike is not moving without using the clutch?


only if the engine is stopped.

I'd like to see how you could be stopped and in first gear with the engine running without using the clutch. Except when doing a burnout. :2thumbsup

Ixion
20th January 2009, 21:46
I'd like to see how you could be stopped and in first gear with the engine running without using the clutch. Except when doing a burnout. :2thumbsup


Assuming that Mr BMWSt's handle relates to his choice of bike, very easily. Every BMW owner knows and fears that one. Where's my spline lube , I've come over all shivery.

Motu
20th January 2009, 22:18
You've got me worried now - please delete your post!

Max Preload
20th January 2009, 22:19
Assuming that Mr BMWSt's handle relates to his choice of bike, very easily. Every BMW owner knows and fears that one. Where's my spline lube , I've come over all shivery.

Touchè! :rofl: